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CantStop85
07-09-2008, 09:51 PM
Courtesy of Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: Rest soundly Steelers fans, Terry Bradshaw isn't on this list. :flap:
THE 5 MOST OVERRATED QUARTERBACKS EVER

5. John Elway (1983-98)
It’s almost sacrilege to criticize the great Denver quarterback. But, naturally, the Cold, Hard Football Facts are not above skewering pigskin dogma, and then munching on the roasted carcass, as if it were an Oktoberfest steckerlfische.

Elway was a great quarterback, as we noted last week in our look at all-time passer rating leaders. He won a lot of games, he lifted an ordinary organization to its greatest heights, he boasts two rings and he produced several amazing comebacks.

But he earns his way on the overrated list because was never – let us be very clear about this, Elway was NEVER – a great passer. And passing being one of the primary responsibilities of a quarterback, it makes Elway an obvious name to include on this list.

The truth is that Elway was downright mediocre his first 10 years in the league and it was not until 1993 – his 11th year in the NFL – that he had anything that approximated a breakout season.

If not for the fact that Elway was a No. 1 draft pick and, thus, entered the league with a boatload of hype that earned him the benefit of the doubt, he never would have lasted very long as a starter in the NFL given the mediocrity of his performances in those first 10 years.

It wasn't until Elway was in his 11th NFL campaign of 1993 that he ever surpassed 22 TD passes in a season (about eight games of work for Tom Brady or Peyton Manning in a good year).

And even after that, Elway never passed for more than 27 TD passes in his 16-year career. Think about that for a moment ... after all, according to ProFootballReference.com, quarterbacks have passed for 28 TDs or more in a season 99 times in history. Yet the name "John Elway" is nowhere among that Top 99.

Yes, he threw for 300 TD passes in his career, fifth all time. But he averaged 18.75 TD passes per year, while tossing 226 picks (14.13 per year). That 19-14 average TD:INT ratio is far below the general 2 to 1 ratio that sets apart great Live Ball Era passers from ordinary passers.

And save for that breakout 1993 campaign, when Elway lead the league in completions (348) and yards (4,030), he never – again we repeat, Elway NEVER – led the league in any major passing categories (completions, yards, TDs, passer rating).

As we said before, Elway deserves to be considered a great quarterback and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. But go back and look at the Cold, Hard Football Facts and you’ll find a guy whose production never matched his reputation.

What you will find is a guy who stands at No. 44 on the all-time passer rating list (79.86), just one spot ahead of his clearly not-HOF-caliber mate from the famous QB Class of 1983, Tony Eason (79.72). You’ll also find someone who produced three of the most dismal performances in Super Bowl history.

There are those sad, sorry souls – devoid as they are of the Cold, Hard Football Facts – who believe Elway is one of the Top Five quarterbacks in history. Athlon Sports, in its new 2008 pro football annual, named Elway the second best quarterback of the Super Bowl Era, behind only Joe Montana.

But he’s not even close, folks. No way. No how. Sorry Athlon. Sorry Denver. Put aside the reputation, look only at the Cold, Hard Football Facts, and check yourself before your wreck yourself.

4. Troy Aikman (1989-2000)
What do you want us to say? Aikman was an ordinary passer surrounded by great talent – though he did earn his way into the Hall of Fame by virtue of several great Super Bowl performances. Those performances always carry a lot of weight with the Cold, Hard Football Facts and Aikman stands firmly entrenched forevermore on our list of Super Bowl Legends.

But Aikman’s career production, by any measure, was only average. He was surrounded by a Hall of Fame running back, a Hall of Fame receiver, and at least one Hall of Fame offensive lineman (Larry Allen). That fact that all this talent led to very ordinary career numbers from Aikman tells us that he was, at least during the regular season, a very ordinary quarterback.

The Cold, Hard Football Facts generally don’t believe in the notion of “system quarterbacks.” Yes, they do exist, but the term is thrown around far too often, as quarterbacks are often solely responsible for the success or failure of a particular system. A lousy quarterback, for example, is not going to succeed in a great "system." But a great quarterback can have great success even in an ordinary "system."

With that said, Aikman certainly stands as a prototypical "system" kind of guy – someone who found himself at the right place at the right time and did just enough to succeed on incredibly talented teams. Quite frankly, there are many quarterbacks the pigskin public considers as only ordinary who likely could have had the same success in the Dallas "system" of Aikman's era: hand the ball to the most productive ballcarrier in history, stand behind a formidable offensive line and toss passes to your Hall of Fame "playmaker" when the shit gets heavy.

The bottom line is that Aikman stands at No. 32 on the all-time passer rating list (81.62), a very average number for his era. His spot on the list, believe it or not, puts him right behind his predecessor in Dallas, Danny White (81.71) and right ahead of longtime journeyman Dave Krieg (81.50).

3. Dan Fouts (1973-87)
Can somebody please explain to us, preferably in English, though we can interpret the typical clucks & whistles of the average CHFF reader, why Fouts is in the Hall of Fame? (Seriously, send us an e-mail and explain it to us.) At least Aikman won three Super Bowls and – more importantly – played incredibly well in those Super Bowls.

Fouts is the classic Sunshine Superman – a guy who often played well in the regular season but who has absolutely nothing to show for it in the playoffs, where he stunk worse than the CHFF cardboard-box world headquarters on bean burrito night (Thursdays, in case anybody was wondering).

Fouts also had the benefits of playing:
in the cushiest outdoor climate in the entire NFL and wouldn’t know bad weather if it shanked him in prison;
in one of the premier passing systems the game has ever known, the Sid Gillman-Don Coryell air attack;
with a galaxy of Pro Bowl offensive players, including Lydell Mitchell, Chuck Muncie, James Brooks, Wes Chandler, John Jefferson and Hall of Famers Charlie Joiner and Kellen Winslow.
Fouts had a great three-year run from 1980 to 1982. He had an almost-great season in 1979, when he passed for 4,082 yards – though his production was negated by 24 picks to his 24 TDs. But last we checked, Hall of Fame careers were not built upon great three-year runs. At the end of the day, Fouts finished his career completing a solid-for-his-time 58.8 percent of his passes, but threw just 12 more TDs than INTs (254 to 242). His passes might have looked pretty on the highlight films, but an inordinate number of those pretty passes ended up in the hands of the ugly opposition.

And for all the hype in the 1980s that surrounded San Diego, “Air Coryell” and Fouts himself, it resulted in just four playoff appearances and three postseason victories. Fouts threw 12 TDs to 16 INTs in his seven playoff games, including two dreadful five-pick performances. His postseason passer rating of 70.0 is well below his regular-season mark (80.23).

Yes, among players whose careers spanned both the Dead Ball and Live Ball Eras, Fouts stands at No. 5 on the passer rating list. But that’s a bit deceptive. After all, Fouts played just one full season in the Dead Ball Era (1976). He was primarily a product of the Live Ball Era.

So it’s hard to justify putting essentially a Live Ball Era passer into the Hall of Fame when given all the evidence above and a career passer rating (80.23) that's merely 43rd all time – behind notable non-Hall of Fame quarterbacks such as Bernie Kosar, Jeff Hostetler and Jeff George.

CantStop85
07-09-2008, 09:53 PM
2. Warren Moon (1984-2000)
See “Dan Fouts” and “Sunshine Superman” above. We touched on Moon last week in our look at all-time passer rating leaders. You can look there for all the reasons why Moon (No. 36 on the all-time passer rating list) is not, and never was, a Hall of Fame-caliber quarterback: mediocre efficiency numbers, poor playoff performances and a record-setting case of fumble-itis.

1. Joe Namath (1965-77)
We want to be very clear about something: the ascension of Namath to the Hall of Fame is a rare triumph for hype over Cold, Hard Football Fact.

Namath came out of a big-time program (Alabama), where he garnered a big-time reputation playing for a big-time coach (Bear Bryant). In the pros, he went to the Big Apple where he quickly earned big-time money.

But, to put it most simply, Namath's production NEVER equaled the hype, even by the standards of the Dead Ball Era. And unearned hype is the mortal enemy of the Cold, Hard Football Facts. We must squash this unearned hype like a Pete Prisco opinion or a tiny little flea attempting to land in our beer.

Save for a glowing triumph by Namath’s Jets over the Colts in Super Bowl III, there would be little by which to remember Broadway Joe – at least little by which to remember him on the football field. (His off-field production is something which we will long admire, however.)

But even in that great moment of career-making triumph, Namath was steady but not spectacular. It was the Jets defense that carried the day in the 16-7 victory over the Colts. Namath's greatest contribution was not throwing a single INT all day, a rare feat, as you'll see below, by his standards. (Namath didn't even throw a TD that day, either. His finally tally in Super Bowl III was a workmanlike 17 of 28 for 206 yards, 7.36 YPA, 0 TD, 0 INT, 83.3 rating.)

Namath fans point out that he was the first passer to throw for more than 4,000 yards in a season (4,007 in 1967) – to which we respond, so friggin' what?

It simply means he threw the ball often. Namath rarely, if ever, threw it effectively. In fact, he rarely ever threw it very far, either, other than that 1967 season. He surpassed 3,000 yards just two other times in a 13-year career. He barely completed 50 percent of his passes over the course of his career (1,886 for 3,762, 50.1%) – an abysmal rate even by the standards of the Dead Ball Era.

And, this is the kicker, folks, Namath's 173 career TDs are overshadowed by a whopping 220 INTs – another abysmal ratio, even by the standards of his era.

To put Namath’s prolific INT rate into perspective in modern terms, consider that Tom Brady has already surpassed Namath with 197 career TDs – and Brady's done it with just 86 picks. To be fair, and to put Namath's INTs into the perspective of the Dead Ball Era, consider that his greatest contemporaries (Jurgensen, Starr, Dawson) all threw more TDs than INTs.

It all adds up to a 65.46 career passer rating for Namath that’s 24th among Dead Ball Era quarterbacks, well below the efficiency of Dead Ball Era QBs that nobody considers Hall of Fame players, such as Frank Ryan (77.61), Don Meredith (74.84) and Roman Gabriel (74.29), among many others.

Among the 150 qualifying quarterbacks on the all-time passer rating list, Namath stands at 133, right behind Norm Snead and right ahead of Rick Mirer. That's right, folks. Among every quarterback who qualifies by NFL standards with a minimum 1,500 career attempts, only 17 players have a lower passer rating than Namath.

Bottom line: strip away the hype of Broadway Joe, and you have a bad quarterback. Anyone who mentions Namath as one of the all-time greats is looking at football through the foggy, disorienting cloud of hype and not through the pristine, crystalline, enlightening air of the Cold, Hard Football Facts.
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2285_The_5_most_overrated_quarterbacks.html

Dino 6 Rings
07-10-2008, 08:14 AM
I agree with Joe Namath 100%.

RoethlisBURGHer
07-10-2008, 09:24 AM
I always beleived that gaurantee is what got him into the HoF. If he would have kept his yap shut, we very well might not know who he is.

rbryan
07-10-2008, 09:39 AM
Wheres Tom Terrific at? How good do you think he would be if he didn't know what the defense was running 10 seconds prior to every snap?

And don't tell me he didn't know what was going on. As far as I'm concerned he's the biggest fraud of all time. (Maybe we need a new category) You will never hear me wish an injury on anyone (at least in public) but if that little prick had both knee caps shattered on the same play it would make my day, to say the least.

9-5
07-10-2008, 10:34 AM
I don't know, John Elway looked pretty good to me driving 98 yards in '86.

Dino 6 Rings
07-10-2008, 10:37 AM
I tend to think Elway deserves to be in the Hall of Fame and was a pretty good freaking QB in Big Games. He had horrible SBs, but then he did beat the Packers and Falcons in the SB later on in his career. He had longevitiy and had to play against some of the best of all time during his career, including Marino and Montana. Kind of hard to be #1 in the league when you're behind those two. Also Favre and Young were tearing things up during Elways career and Aikman also had a run. Jim Kelly was there too.

Godfather
07-10-2008, 10:37 AM
Wheres Tom Terrific at? How good do you think he would be if he didn't know what the defense was running 10 seconds prior to every snap?

And don't tell me he didn't know what was going on. As far as I'm concerned he's the biggest fraud of all time. (Maybe we need a new category) You will never hear me wish an injury on anyone (at least in public) but if that little prick had both knee caps shattered on the same play it would make my day, to say the least.

You beat me to it. Brokeback is the beneficiary of a cheater.

Look at how great Bellycheat was when he wasn't videotaping signals.

tony hipchest
07-10-2008, 10:37 AM
Wheres Tom Terrific at? .
hes busy having his balls surgically removed from the chins of the writers at CHFF.

millwalldavey
07-10-2008, 10:57 AM
I think a quarterback is not only rated by his skills as a passer but as a leader... That is why you cannot count Elway, Aikman or Namath in this list... After all, Bradshaw may have not been as successful in another city... but he was the perfect fit for 4 rings in Pittsburgh.

Oh... 9-5... check your sig... the Browns have won 4 NFL championships. Those AAFC ones are meaningless.

fansince'76
07-10-2008, 10:58 AM
hes busy having his balls surgically removed from the chins of the writers at CHFF.

But, they're unbiased! :rolleyes:

El-Gonzo Jackson
07-10-2008, 12:00 PM
Elway, no way he is overrated
Moon, he put up great numbers everywhere he went Houston, Minnesota, Edmonton?
Aikman- maybe a bit overrated
Fouts, no way. If he had a running game he would have some rings.
Namath- yeah probably

I think Archie Manning gets more props than he deserves, same with Ken Stabler and even Bradshaw had a few great seasons, but were on great teams more than were great passers. I think you can include Joe Theismann, Kurt Warner, Bart Starr as overrated.

RoethlisBURGHer
07-10-2008, 12:11 PM
I don't know, John Elway looked pretty good to me driving 98 yards in '86.

Not to mention his league record for most 4th quarter come-from-behind victories.

No way Elway is overrated. He won two Super Bowls and the ones he lost were due to his defense falling apart in the SB and no run game to take pressure off of the passing game.

Those SB losses for him came during a time when the NFC was head and shoulders above the AFC.

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
07-10-2008, 12:18 PM
I think a quarterback is not only rated by his skills as a passer but as a leader... That is why you cannot count Elway, Aikman or Namath in this list... After all, Bradshaw may have not been as successful in another city... but he was the perfect fit for 4 rings in Pittsburgh.

Oh... 9-5... check your sig... the Browns have won 4 NFL championships. Those AAFC ones are meaningless.

LULZ.

The Browns dominated the NFL the second they switched leagues. One could argue that if the Browns were in the NFL at the time they probably would've won those 4.

RoethlisBURGHer
07-10-2008, 12:23 PM
LULZ.

The Browns dominated the NFL the second they switched leagues. One could argue that if the Browns were in the NFL at the time they probably would've won those 4.

Semantics semantics!

You could argue that if your aunt had a penis and testicles she'd be your uncle too!

HometownGal
07-10-2008, 12:25 PM
The only legitimate overrated QB on that original list, imho, is Joe Namath. Elway and The Mooner overrated? Hogwash.

I would have to include Jim McMahon on that list. Sure he has a SB ring, but da Bears won the title not because of him but because of their D, which probably is right up there with the Steelers of the 70's as the top NFL defenses of all time. McMahon was one crazy mofo. :screwy:

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
07-10-2008, 12:25 PM
Semantics semantics!

You could argue that if your aunt had a penis and testicles she'd be your uncle too!

hehehehehe :flap:

Dino 6 Rings
07-10-2008, 12:44 PM
I like the Jim McMahon call, but since no one ever really talks about him except to say he was the QB of that one time wonder Bears team, he isn't important enough to include in this list.

millwalldavey
07-10-2008, 12:45 PM
LULZ.

The Browns dominated the NFL the second they switched leagues. One could argue that if the Browns were in the NFL at the time they probably would've won those 4.

One could argue that if the Steelers started Kordell Stewart or traded for Dan Marino before SB XXX, they would have 6 Super Bowls.

Unfortunately, the world will never know and as much as we try, we cannot rewrite the past.

fansince'76
07-10-2008, 01:40 PM
One could argue that if the Steelers started Kordell Stewart or traded for Dan Marino before SB XXX, they would have 6 Super Bowls.

Unfortunately, the world will never know and as much as we try, we cannot rewrite the past.

Ooh, I got one - how about if Harris and Bleier would have been able to play in the '76 AFCCG? Playing "what if" is fun!

rbryan
07-10-2008, 01:47 PM
I guess that means da Raiders (aka team of the decade(s) would also have one more story about a bad call that didn't go thier way............lol

LambertIsGod58
07-10-2008, 01:50 PM
To me, Jim Kelly is the most overrated of All-Time.....

HometownGal
07-10-2008, 02:02 PM
To me, Jim Kelly is the most overrated of All-Time.....

To me, that's blashphemy! :chuckle: Jim Kelly is one of my favorite non-Steelers QB's. Though he never won a SB with the Bills, he accomplished a feat no other NFL QB in history has ever accomplished - leading his team into 4 straight SB's. Personally, I think he is terribly underrated.

LambertIsGod58
07-10-2008, 02:08 PM
HTG...Living in Syracuse my whole life, I had nothing but Bills football stuffed down my throat for many years. Game after game, I watched him turn the ball over or get sacked on very key possessions. That and losing 4 SB's!! That's the opinon I've always had of him.

HometownGal
07-10-2008, 02:17 PM
HTG...Living in Syracuse my whole life, I had nothing but Bills football stuffed down my throat for many years. Game after game, I watched him turn the ball over or get sacked on very key possessions. That and losing 4 SB's!! That's the opinon I've always had of him.

While I can certainly respect your opinion, LIG, this is the Jim Kelly I remember:

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=112

In 11 seasons in Buffalo, Kelly led the Bills to the playoffs eight times. In 17 playoff game appearances, including four consecutive Super Bowls, he passed for 3,863 yards and 21 touchdowns. At the time of his retirement, his 84.4 passer rating ranked sixth all-time and was second when compared to Hall of Fame quarterbacks. His 35,467 career passing yards ranked tenth in NFL history; his 2,874 completions ranked eighth; and his 237 touchdowns ranked thirteenth.

At the time of Kelly's retirement, only Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts, and Johnny Unitas among Hall of Fame quarterbacks had passed for more yardage, and only Tarkenton, and Fouts had completed more passes.

HometownGal
07-10-2008, 02:24 PM
I like the Jim McMahon call, but since no one ever really talks about him except to say he was the QB of that one time wonder Bears team, he isn't important enough to include in this list.

I listed McMahon because he is the owner of 2 SB rings (XX and XXXI) and during da Bears magical 1985 season, he was quite the media darling. I was nauseous from hearing about him day in and day out during that season.

Though I thought the guy was a punk and a total jackass, he did play fairly well in XX and da Bears trounced the Cheatriots* in that game. :thumbsup:

OneForTheToe
07-10-2008, 02:33 PM
Nice call on Jim McMahon. He was definitely overrated (although, maybe he should be in the rap HOF for the "Super Bowl Shuffle' :doh:) Of course, IDT many (other than da' Bears super fans) are clamoring that he is of football HOF caliber anyways.

On the original list, I would have to agree Namath is the most overrated QB. On the other hand, his drunken slobbering over female sports reporters’ ability is quite underrated.:drink:

No way Elway is overrated. Moon was a great passer, no doubt. As for Fouts, that offense was the most unstoppable force ever for about 5 years. Aikmen played well in big games which is also TB's calling card so I don't see how a Steelers' fan could say Aikmen was overrated.

A few more to add to the overrated list: Boomer E, Ken O'brien, Brian Sipes and Theeesman, to the extent that Gibbs’ Skins were able to win the SB without him.

HometownGal
07-10-2008, 04:12 PM
and Theeesman, to the extent that Gibbs’ Skins were able to win the SB without him.

I forgot about Peg Leg Joe. Couldn't stand him during his playing days and even less as an announcer. :puke: If you googled the word "douchebag", it would most likely come up with the name Joe Theisman.

Texasteel
07-10-2008, 04:33 PM
I always thought that Joe Theisman was one of the most forgetable QBs, and announcers I ever saw. Except for the play that he broke his leg, I will never forget that.

fansince'76
07-10-2008, 05:14 PM
I always thought that Joe Theisman was one of the most forgetable QBs, and announcers I ever saw. Except for the play that he broke his leg, I will never forget that.

Or his pick-six to Squirek in the SB....

Galax Steeler
07-11-2008, 04:16 AM
I can't believe that dan fouts is on that list I thought he was a good quarterback.

missedgehead
07-11-2008, 09:53 AM
You beat me to it. Brokeback is the beneficiary of a cheater.

Look at how great Bellycheat was when he wasn't videotaping signals.

Um. No. I guess homophobia is still alive and well. :blah: :blah: :blah:

missedgehead
07-11-2008, 09:58 AM
As far the list, I would put Aikman on that list. He was a very nice QB in the sense that he was a system QB. He was very good. Elway, sorry, I never thought he was all that great either. He is not in my top five. Sorry. Montana whupped him in the Super Bowl. Even a guy who I think is very underrated named Doug Williams (IMO the best performance by anyone in a Super Bowl) whupped him in the Super Bowl. Just do not think he was all that. Yeah, he had the ability to do great in the 4th quarter of games and had "the Drive" against the Clownies. Namath...enuff said.

Anyone who thinks Brady should be on that list: LOL Anymore jokes because I could use a good laugh right now.

HometownGal
07-11-2008, 10:52 AM
Anyone who thinks Brady should be on that list: LOL Anymore jokes because I could use a good laugh right now.

I don't feel Brady is overrated on the surface, but considering he was one of the beneficiaries of Beliprick's* cheating ways, it really makes me (and I'm sure countless others) wonder how much of his success is based on sheer talent and ability vis-a-vis knowing what opposing defenses were going to do in advance of the plays.

rbryan
07-11-2008, 11:20 AM
Part of the equation to be considered over rated is how much slobbering the media does over a certain player. I don't think there is any QB aside from Manning that has been the focus of more man crushes from the media than the Golden Boy.

Does he deserve to be considered a great QB if his succes is directly related to cheating?? I don't think so.... Maybe over rated isn't the right term, but he certainly doesn't deserve all the praise he receives either.

Barry Bonds hit more HR than anyone yet is widely regarded as a fraud in the court of public opinion even though he's never been caught doing anything wrong. Where does that leave the Golden boy since he and Billy boy were caught red handed???

fansince'76
07-11-2008, 12:48 PM
Elway, sorry, I never thought he was all that great either. He is not in my top five. Sorry. Montana whupped him in the Super Bowl. Even a guy who I think is very underrated named Doug Williams (IMO the best performance by anyone in a Super Bowl) whupped him in the Super Bowl. Just do not think he was all that. Yeah, he had the ability to do great in the 4th quarter of games and had "the Drive" against the Clownies.

Elway took the Broncos pretty much singlehandedly to the SB 3 times in 4 years in the late 80s with WRs like Ricky Nattiel and Mark Jackson and Sammy Winder at RB. Their best defensive player at the time was Karl Mecklenberg. If you're saying to yourself, "Who?," that's exactly my point.

Elway also had the strongest arm of anybody I've ever seen - he's the only QB I've ever seen who could be on one side of the field and throw across his body all the way back over to the other side of the field and have it still be a good pass. If Montana, Brady, or pretty much anybody else attempts the same pass, they wind up throwing a floating duck that gets picked pretty much every time.

On top of all the 4th quarter comebacks (which he still has the most of of any QB in NFL history), he also held the record for most wins by a NFL QB until Favre passed him this past season. Elway overrated? No way.

St33lersguy
07-12-2008, 09:27 AM
Not to mention his league record for most 4th quarter come-from-behind victories.

No way Elway is overrated. He won two Super Bowls and the ones he lost were due to his defense falling apart in the SB and no run game to take pressure off of the passing game.

Those SB losses for him came during a time when the NFC was head and shoulders above the AFC.

Not to mention he carried his team on his shoulders to those SuperBowls and in those Superbowls the matchup really was Elway vs great teams. Elway won Superbowls when he had Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith, and more talent on Defense

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-12-2008, 10:04 AM
I don't feel Brady is overrated on the surface, but considering he was one of the beneficiaries of Beliprick's* cheating ways, it really makes me (and I'm sure countless others) wonder how much of his success is based on sheer talent and ability vis-a-vis knowing what opposing defenses were going to do in advance of the plays.

Bingo!!!...still surprised that no sports writer has asked Brady about his knowledge in the whole mess...since only a complete moron wouldnt wonder how the little voice in his ear piece "happened to know" what defense the other team was going to run.

He is just as guilty as Belicheat* and all his stats are suspect.....period!

rbryan
07-12-2008, 10:55 AM
The golden boy may be a lot of things but a moron isn't one of them, Of course he knew.

The thing I keep going back to is Confidence. You hear it all the time. Once a player gets it (or loses it) its 90% of the battle. No doubt Brady has talent. Every QB thats drafted has that. How much confidence do you think it gave him knowing what defense the other team is running????

If he was drafted by the Falcons and got steam rolled from day one do you think he's even still in the league right now??

HughC
07-12-2008, 03:19 PM
FWIW, my top over-rated QB's would be Theismann, Namath, and Favre. Before I get blasted for Favre, I'm not saying he wasn't good - he's deserving of a first ballot Hall of Fame vote - but the media loves him and makes him out to be far better than he really is (in other words, over rated.)

After that I'd consider guys with shorter careers who were considered great and then quickly fizzled out, such as Warner, Culpepper, Vick, and McMahon - although McMahon's demise can be blamed on a cheap shot injury. Elway and Fouts do not deserve to be on the list but Aikman probably does, and Kenny Stabler probably does too.

LambertIsGod58
07-12-2008, 07:33 PM
FWIW, my top over-rated QB's would be Theismann, Namath, and Favre. Before I get blasted for Favre, I'm not saying he wasn't good - he's deserving of a first ballot Hall of Fame vote - but the media loves him and makes him out to be far better than he really is (in other words, over rated.)

After that I'd consider guys with shorter careers who were considered great and then quickly fizzled out, such as Warner, Culpepper, Vick, and McMahon - although McMahon's demise can be blamed on a cheap shot injury. Elway and Fouts do not deserve to be on the list but Aikman probably does, and Kenny Stabler probably does too.


Are you kidding me? Favre made out far better than he really his? :rofl: He only holds most major passing records and add taking his team to a few Super Bowls. And probably the greatest record of all, his consecutive starts. You don't have to like Favre, but let's make him out less than he is.

MDSteel15
07-12-2008, 08:18 PM
Elway took the Broncos pretty much singlehandedly to the SB 3 times in 4 years in the late 80s with WRs like Ricky Nattiel and Mark Jackson and Sammy Winder at RB. Their best defensive player at the time was Karl Mecklenberg. If you're saying to yourself, "Who?," that's exactly my point.

Elway also had the strongest arm of anybody I've ever seen - he's the only QB I've ever seen who could be on one side of the field and throw across his body all the way back over to the other side of the field and have it still be a good pass. If Montana, Brady, or pretty much anybody else attempts the same pass, they wind up throwing a floating duck that gets picked pretty much every time.

On top of all the 4th quarter comebacks (which he still has the most of of any QB in NFL history), he also held the record for most wins by a NFL QB until Favre passed him this past season. Elway overrated? No way.

You are wrong, Dennis Smith was the best D- player on the team... :chuckle: Meck was a beast from the 80's, a very deserving player that teamed with Lyle Alzado!

HughC
07-13-2008, 07:59 PM
Are you kidding me? Favre made out far better than he really his? :rofl: He only holds most major passing records and add taking his team to a few Super Bowls. And probably the greatest record of all, his consecutive starts. You don't have to like Favre, but let's make him out less than he is.

I didn't say Favre wasn't good. In my opinion he is very well deserving of a 100% first ballot hall of fame vote. My point is "over rated", in other words the media (and fans) have made him out to be much better than he actually is, for a long time now. He was absolutely incredible from '95 to '99, one of the best stretches by any quarterback in the history of the NFL. But since then the media has continued to fawn all over him based on the past rather than the present. For every miraculous improvised play by Favre, there are two or three poor decisions that result in a turnover. Yet not just John Madden, but the entire national media - especially ESPN - continue to glorify a guy who has been slightly above average over the last five years.

How he is perceived versus his actual performance equals over rated, and that is why I consider him to be the most over rated QB of this decade. In a way it's similar to Namath, who had a couple of good years and a SB win, and that was all fans looked at.

lilyoder6
07-13-2008, 08:18 PM
i dont think u can call favre over rated since that in the beginning no one would think he would have most passing records and con starts

KeiselPower99
07-13-2008, 08:31 PM
Here in a few years Tony Romo will be on the list. Warren Moon was a good qb I could think of others that could replace him and Elway on that list.

steelreserve
07-13-2008, 10:57 PM
Whoever wrote this was an idiot. I mean, they put Elway on the list because he didn't win anything early in his career, but they forget to mention golden boy Peyton Manning didn't win sh*t for most of a decade either.

Then they put Aikman on the list because he won 3 Super Bowls but had a great supporting cast ... but Brady is still just so great.

By the (double) standards they use, you'd have to call Marino, Montana, Bradshaw and basically any QB who won a title or broke a record "overrated."

9-5
07-13-2008, 11:16 PM
Then they put Aikman on the list because he won 3 Super Bowls but had a great supporting cast ... but Brady is still just so great.
Because he was the best QB in the league with a average at best supporting cast. Deion Branch and David Givens are not nearly as good with out him. Last year, with 1 Hall of Famer and two quality #2's, we all saw what he did. Just throw 50 touchdowns and for 4800 yards.

tony hipchest
07-13-2008, 11:32 PM
Because he was the best QB in the league with a average at best supporting cast. Deion Branch and David Givens are not nearly as good with out him. Last year, with 1 Hall of Famer and two quality #2's, we all saw what he did. Just throw 50 touchdowns and for 4800 yards.
deionne branch and david givens were never that great with him.

dont make it like them average scrubs ever put up good numbers.

and dont believe the hype.

i hate to say this, but neither were half as much as what braylon edwards has potential to be. he seems to be the real deal regardless of whos throwing to him.

xfl2001fan
07-14-2008, 07:32 PM
Brady is a good qb (gawd I hate saying that) but he's not a great one. We'll see how well he does when he doesn't have the benefit of game signals going for him.

To the poster who mentioned Peyton Manning vs Elway, Peyton may not have won, but his first 10 seasons (overall) were littered with good passing numbers. Elway didn't pass well, which is what that article was harping on.

To the poster who objected to the Browns championships prior to joining the NFL. They don't count as NFL championships, but they are recognized as Professional Football Championships by the guys who run the Pro Football Hall of Fame. That's key, as they don't really recognize CFL players as playing pro-ball. CFL is far more established as a brand of football then what the Browns played in when they dominated back then.

So technically, they're not considered NFL, they're still recognized championships.

The Patriot
07-14-2008, 09:34 PM
Tom Brady has a new fan website now, so we can more convienently bask in his brady goodness.:hatsoff:
http://www.tb12inside.com/

Be careful not to get lost in his eyes.

fansince'76
07-14-2008, 09:47 PM
Tom Brady has a new fan website now, so we can more convienently bask in his brady goodness.:hatsoff:
http://www.tb12inside.com/

Be careful not to get lost in his eyes.

Awright, gotta admit, that had me laughing. :chuckle:

tony hipchest
07-14-2008, 09:53 PM
me too...

....we... :hatsoff:

:rofl:

9-5
07-15-2008, 11:03 PM
deionne branch and david givens were never that great with him.
Exactly. With good recievers, Brady owned the league.

dont make it like them average scrubs ever put up good numbers.
uh...what? Scrubs put up good numbers for one season, Brady has put up numbers since he got his chance

and dont believe the hype.
i hate to say this, but neither were half as much as what braylon edwards has potential to be. he seems to be the real deal regardless of whos throwing to him
What hype? You throw 50 TD's in 16 games, there is no hype. Just talent.

B-17 will be a top 5 receiver for a long time. He is the prototype receiver. Big, long, good hands, good jumper. Get used to seeing him in the end zone

Steelman16
07-15-2008, 11:15 PM
Tom Brady has a new fan website now, so we can more convienently bask in his brady goodness.:hatsoff:
http://www.tb12inside.com/

Be careful not to get lost in his eyes.

Ya know... "TB" is a bad diesese... :wink02:

fansince'76
07-15-2008, 11:53 PM
B-17 will be a top 5 receiver for a long time. He is the prototype receiver. Big, long, good hands, good jumper. Get used to seeing him in the end zone

2 TDs in 5 career games against us so far. I know I'm shaking. :yawn:

The Duke
07-16-2008, 01:05 AM
2 TDs in 5 career games against us so far. I know I'm shaking. :yawn:

He's following chad johnson's steps :flap:

The Patriot
07-16-2008, 07:08 AM
Ya know... "TB" is a bad diesese... :wink02:

Why. because he's unstoppable or because he leaves young children without a father?




Oh yeah, I went there.

HometownGal
07-16-2008, 07:36 AM
Why. because he's unstoppable or because he leaves young children without a father?


Ask Eli and the Giants if that disease is unstoppable. :flap::sofunny:

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/02/04/manning3333.jpg

fansince'76
07-16-2008, 08:03 AM
http://ihavenet.com/images/Strahan-Umenyiora-Brady-Sack-Super-Bowl-XLII.jpg

:toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb136/garyb12001/manning3333.jpg

:crying01: :crying01: :crying01:

The Patriot
07-16-2008, 08:45 AM
Even cancer has its bad days.

Steelman16
07-16-2008, 11:58 AM
Even cancer has its bad days.

Especially when it's cured like this:

http://ihavenet.com/images/Strahan-Umenyiora-Brady-Sack-Super-Bowl-XLII.jpg

:toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb136/garyb12001/manning3333.jpg

:crying01: :crying01: :crying01:

:chuckle:

HometownGal
07-16-2008, 12:23 PM
Even cancer has its bad days.

So do your bowels - what's your point? :poop:

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-16-2008, 12:27 PM
Even cancer has its bad days.

That would explain your grumpiness....:thumbsup:...(if you had chemo, you'd dissappear.)

St33lersguy
07-16-2008, 02:07 PM
Here in a few years Tony Romo will be on the list.

I'd put him on the list right now especially ahead of legendary John Elway. Even though he can't win a playoff game to save his life experts tend to treat him like royalty. Especially in '06 when he made the pro bowl and was called a superstar QB off of a few good games against bad teams.

9-5
07-16-2008, 02:47 PM
2 TDs in 5 career games against us so far. I know I'm shaking. :yawn:
Look what he did to you at Pittsburgh last year.
He's following chad johnson's steps :flap:
He's CJ without the attitude problem

fansince'76
07-16-2008, 03:02 PM
Look what he did to you at Pittsburgh last year.

He scored one of his whopping two career TDs against us in that game. Besides, we won anyway. :coffee:

The Duke
07-16-2008, 04:49 PM
He's CJ without the attitude problem

actually, he may be better than CJ, at least to me, just saying he's just like him against the steelers, disappears in every game against them

He scored one of his whopping two career TDs against us in that game. Besides, we won anyway. :coffee:

and in that game he had one catch. granted, it was a TD, but like 76 said it was his 2nd in 3 years against us. he's far from a threat to the steelers :tt02:

revefsreleets
07-16-2008, 05:18 PM
Josh Cribbs is the one and only Browns skill guy that scares me.

9-5
07-16-2008, 08:51 PM
Josh Cribbs is the one and only Browns skill guy that scares me.
You will be a little more scared in week 2

He scored one of his whopping two career TDs against us in that game. Besides, we won anyway. :coffee:
With the guys we had his first 4 games......it wasn't exactly easy to score. That has changed.

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
07-16-2008, 09:26 PM
Josh Cribbs is the one and only Browns skill guy that scares me.

Isn't he the only QB from ohio to beat Ben in College?

I remember rooting for us to pick him up because I always pull for the mac kids to make the Browns in some way shape or form..Sad to see Frye not make it..but..well just forget about him.

The Duke
07-16-2008, 09:51 PM
With the guys we had his first 4 games......it wasn't exactly easy to score. That has changed.

and what's your excuse for his lone catch in 2nd game?

9-5
07-17-2008, 10:51 PM
and what's your excuse for his lone catch in 2nd game?
our offense as a whole had a miserable game. We only scored because Josh Cribbs owns.