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GBMelBlount
07-16-2008, 03:09 PM
Is the Steelers defensive line a strength or weakness?

By James Pete | July 16th, 2008

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A case could be made that the front three of the Pittsburgh Steelersí defense are one of the best units in the NFL. Defensive Tackle Casey Hampton, and Defensive Ends Aaron Smith and Brett Keisel form a perfect Dick LeBeau front-line. They are staunch against the run, but can break free and make plays in the backfield if the blitz is working correctly.

So, why is this unit considered to be a weakness for the Pittsburgh Steelers?

There are two worries for this squad, age, and depth. We found out last season that when both are issues, the Steelers defensive line can be downright average.

Casey Hampton is simply one of the top two defensive tackles in the game. Heís not going to win any weight loss competitions, but his obesity has never really caused his play to diminish in any way to this point. He is an extraordinary run-stopper, who is overpowering. He can easily shed blocks, or ride his block into the path of the play. His ability to absorb two blockers is a key to many of the Steelersí stunts, and blitz packages. In many ways, Hampton is the anchor of the entire defense. He played in his fourth pro bowl this past season.

Brett Keisel signed a new deal before last season, and many speculated that he was going to be placed in a role similar to former Ravens end Adalius Thomas. That didnít happen as much as Dick LeBeau would have liked, but look for things to change this season. Already this year, thereís been more speculation that Keisel, LaMarr Woodley, James Harrison and in some cases, Lawrence Timmons and Bruce Davis, will all have opportunities to move around. Keisel is truly solid against the run, and consistently leads the Steelers in hurries, even if he doesnít get to the quarterback. He can overpower linemen, but his strength is the speed into the backfield. He uses his mobility and speed to beat the linemen to a spot in the backfield, and disrupting the action. The typical Steelers defensive linemen absorbs the offensive line (see Casey Hampton) to allow the linebackers through in blitz-schemes. Keisel can absorb, but is best on the move. Look for more of that this year, with a better group of linebackers behind him.

Aaron Smith is a prototypical run-stuffer in the traditional Pittsburgh Steelers mold. This isnít a guy that sets out to sack the quarterback. Heís just so good at what he does, that he finds the quarterback in front of him often, as his 35 1/2 career sacks would indicate. What he does is simple, attack the line, and hold them there so that speed and blitz guys can get their job done. Many times, however, Smith not only attacks and holds, but ends up pushing back lineman into the backfield. This guy is truly one of the unheralded players in the league.

Of course, after last season, most Pittsburgh Steelers fans know all about Aaron Smith, and what happens when heís not there.

This defensive line is good, but they are also starting to age. Aaron Smith just turned 32 years old. Casey Hampton will turn 31 in September. Brett Keisel will be turning 30 in September as well. No, we arenít talking ancient, but it does bring up concerns.

For Smith, injuries became an issue for the first time last season. No, it wasnít a wear-and-tear injury, but the bicep tear could bring into question his durability down the stretch. When heís healthy, heís one of the best in the game. When heís not, the defense drops dramatically.

Hampton seems to be as durable as they come. Hereís the catch. I do worry about his weight issues. He has had some trouble in offseasonís past to come in at a decent weight. When do we hit that offseason where he goes from being able to work back down to slightly fat, to just plain obese. There has been several rumors around the South Side that Hampton is currently at an all-time high with his weight. It probably wonít hurt his strength as a nose tackle, but it could limit his already limited mobility, and increase the chance of injury.

Keisel is an enigma to me. He absolutely pressured the quarterback last season, but I didnít see the Adalius Thomas experiment implemented all that much. Perhaps that was expedited out with the Smith injury, or perhaps there was more going on there than it seems, as the Steelers seem much happier with their linebacking situation this year. Still, I think Keisel is primed to have a break-out year. This yearís version of the Steelers linebacking crew should give him more opportunity to move around. If he can play in that Thomas, Vrabel mold, he could be dangerous.

Hereís the thing. Who will play if these guys get hurt? Travis Kirschke is entering his twelfth season, and last year he got manhandled anyways. Nick Eason is a guy that I was high on, but this is his sixth year. He looked as bad as Kirschke last season. When does the promise turn into something more? Hopefully soon, because Pittsburgh just re-signed the guy. Ryan McBean is a monster, and the guy thatís slid into my Ďhigh hopesí category. In all seriousness though, the Steelers cut him, then re-signed him as a practice squad guy. How high is this guy going to go? Chris Hoke backs up Hampton, and heís fine as a back-up, but heís no Casey Hampton.

Throw in the fact that Kirschke will be 34, and Hoke is 32, and you have old back-ups.

The Steelers front office, and Mike Tomlin donít seem worried about the issues, and right now, Iím not either. If one of the top three go down, however, this defensive line gets pretty average, pretty quickly.

I know this was the top defense in 2007, but if you look at the line after week 11 when Aaron Smith went down, you see a considerable drop-off across the board. The linebackers became less effective, and so did the run-stopping ability. In particular, this became glaring against teams that can run, such as the Jaguars.

The Jags, also having line injury issues actually played better, because their back-ups werenít just back-ups, but players being groomed for a starting role.

Pittsburgh doesnít have that system in place right now, which scares me for the future of this line.

Letís just hope that the future doesnít come sooner than we think.

http://mvn.com/nfl-steelers/2008/07/16/is-the-steelers-defensive-line-a-strength-or-weakness/

Texasteel
07-16-2008, 03:59 PM
I sounds like he is saying its a strength if no body gets hurt, a weakness if they do.
I think I would probably agree with that.

HometownGal
07-16-2008, 04:20 PM
I feel the Steelers DL is still very much a strength. Smith, Hampton and Keisel are 32, 31 and 30 respectively - hardly geezers on the back sides of their careers. Hamptom is a chub, but is strong as an ox and imho, the best DT in the NFL hands down. I'm quite sure Smith has been rehabbing that torn bicep and will be 99.9% back to his fierce style of play at DE. As for Keisel - he's a beast without the fur and I firmly believe if Lebeau would open it up a bit more for him as far as blitzing the QB, his overall value to the line would skyrocket. It's not like the guy doesn't have the speed.

I am very confident in our DL going into this season. :thumbsup::tt02:

revefsreleets
07-16-2008, 05:41 PM
Well, depth is the issue. But what team in the NFL is two deep at every position? The key is to stay healthy and address this need in the near future. The one nice thing about 3-4 DL is they don't need 3 years of seasoning: They can come in and play and contribute right away.

BlastFurnace
07-16-2008, 05:45 PM
Smith is still strong at DE. When he was out last season, Hampton and Keisel couldn't step up and carry the load. Part of the problem was that Kirschke and Eason below average at Smith's DE spot.

From what I have seen last season...and I hope it was just a bad season by these two...Hampton is really slowing down and Keisel is several notches below Smith. IMO, Smith is the key to the entire DL this year for us...as he was last year.

xfl2001fan
07-16-2008, 06:03 PM
Your starters are a strength, your depth is a weakness. When healthy, you'd be hard pressed to find a better group of lineman in the league at what they do. They may not be the best at generating pressure themselves, but their job is to tie up blockers first and let the LBs make plays.

Steelman16
07-16-2008, 06:52 PM
What about Bruce Davis? If I recall he played DE in college, and is now doing the transistion to outside linebacker. If Kiesel or Smith gets hurt, could B. Davis step in?

Or rather, maybe the question is, could Bruce Davis step in and play better than Kirschke or Eason?

Just wondering if this might be the key to Tomlin and the FO's apparent lack of concern for DL depth.

Aside from that, we have a great defensive line, and defensive unit as a whole. I'm looking forward to (another) solid season from these guys. :tt02:

tony hipchest
07-16-2008, 07:13 PM
What about Bruce Davis? If I recall he played DE in college, and is now doing the transistion to outside linebacker. If Kiesel or Smith gets hurt, could B. Davis step in?

Or rather, maybe the question is, could Bruce Davis step in and play better than Kirschke or Eason?
:no, he's about 40-50 lbs too small. even woodley (who also played DE) is about 25-30 lbs too small... atleast for a 3-4 defense.

Steelman16
07-16-2008, 07:30 PM
no, he's about 40-50 lbs too small. even woodley (who also played DE) is about 25-30 lbs too small... atleast for a 3-4 defense.

I couldn't find his weight at the time of posting, but that's what I figured.

Well, hopefully he'll be a beast at LB and our D-line won't get hurt. :helmet:

43Hitman
07-16-2008, 07:48 PM
no, he's about 40-50 lbs too small. even woodley (who also played DE) is about 25-30 lbs too small... atleast for a 3-4 defense.

Possibly an emergency 4-3 package in the works?

xXTheSteelKingsXx
07-16-2008, 08:30 PM
Possibly an emergency 4-3 package in the works?

This is something I thought about. If Keisel or Smith get injured put Casey and Hoke at the DT's snd drop Davis or Woodley down to D-End. If the injury is to Big Snack Smith has the size and strength to play a 4-3 D-Tackle.

Galax Steeler
07-17-2008, 03:24 AM
Hopefully they wont be no injuries and we can keep our line the way it is for this year I think we have a pretty good deffensive line.

Steel Pit
07-17-2008, 05:19 AM
I've voiced my opinion in past threads, the Steelers defensive line is a WEAKNESS!

I know that many of you have adamantly praised the line but once again, I just don't see any greatness in them. I haven't liked the Steelers defensive linemen since the mid-1990's with Ray Seals, Joel Steed, and Kevin Henry. The depth included Brensten Buckner, Bill Johnson, and Oliver Gibson. This was the Steelers BEST, post-steel curtain, group of defensive linemen.

Since then the Steelers have fielded bums such as, Nolan Harrison, Jeremy Staat, Kendrick Clancy, Chris Combs, Kimo von Oelhoffen, Rodney Bailey, Brett Keisel, and Travis Kirschke, That's right people, Kimo was a freaking BUM! He did nothing before he came to the Steelers, very little with the Steelers, and even less after leaving the Steelers.

During this era, the Steelers found reason to let defensive linemen such as Brensten Buckner and Mike Vrabel slip away. Hell these 2 guys would have given the Steelers 10+ years of solid defensive line play.

The Steelers current defensive line is what it is, no more, no less. I don't like them, they're not the least bit impressive, but I still root like crazy for them on every defensive snap.

xfl2001fan
07-17-2008, 05:57 AM
An "emergency 4-3" package would hurt you guys. It's a very different system to play. You have the players to make it as a sub package (I think) but it would be difficult to implement as any more than that.

How many LBs do you think you'll have on your roster? Take away the 2-4 that you'd have to plug in at DE and that's your 4-3 LB crew.

Depth is a concern for your line and it will only likely get harder to fill (with so many more teams running a 3-4 defense.)

SteelMember
07-17-2008, 08:01 AM
Smith is still strong at DE. When he was out last season, Hampton and Keisel couldn't step up and carry the load. Part of the problem was that Kirschke and Eason below average at Smith's DE spot.

From what I have seen last season...and I hope it was just a bad season by these two...Hampton is really slowing down and Keisel is several notches below Smith. IMO, Smith is the key to the entire DL this year for us...as he was last year.

With the current personel, I couln't agree more. Smitty is the man! With Keisel attacking the stronger side of most offences, he seems to have his hands full. While smitty is on the other side, he seems to win more of the 1 on 1 battles.
Although all are good run stoppers, I hope we can get more pressure on the QB. Harrison and Woodley can help greatly getting more Oline eyes wandering outside, thus softening the middle. IMO the Dline looks better when the LBs play better.

Lord Stiller
07-17-2008, 10:08 AM
I've voiced my opinion in past threads, the Steelers defensive line is a WEAKNESS!

I know that many of you have adamantly praised the line but once again, I just don't see any greatness in them. I haven't liked the Steelers defensive linemen since the mid-1990's with Ray Seals, Joel Steed, and Kevin Henry. The depth included Brensten Buckner, Bill Johnson, and Oliver Gibson. This was the Steelers BEST, post-steel curtain, group of defensive linemen.

Since then the Steelers have fielded bums such as, Nolan Harrison, Jeremy Staat, Kendrick Clancy, Chris Combs, Kimo von Oelhoffen, Rodney Bailey, Brett Keisel, and Travis Kirschke, That's right people, Kimo was a freaking BUM! He did nothing before he came to the Steelers, very little with the Steelers, and even less after leaving the Steelers.

During this era, the Steelers found reason to let defensive linemen such as Brensten Buckner and Mike Vrabel slip away. Hell these 2 guys would have given the Steelers 10+ years of solid defensive line play.

The Steelers current defensive line is what it is, no more, no less. I don't like them, they're not the least bit impressive, but I still root like crazy for them on every defensive snap.


I was agreeing with you untill you called Von Oelhoffen a bum. He was one of the best DE's we have had and way better than Kiesel. And also, Vrabel is a LB not a defensive lineman

Hampton and Smith are as good as it gets. Keisel is okay but not that stout against the run, compared to our past DE's and more recently Von Olhoffen....Kiesel is a big downgrade.

The worst part is our depth, it sucks

El-Gonzo Jackson
07-17-2008, 10:21 AM
Hampton and Smith are as good as it gets. Keisel is okay but not that stout against the run, compared to our past DE's and more recently Von Olhoffen....Kiesel is a big downgrade.

The worst part is our depth, it sucks

Completely agree!! Watch SBXL again and you will see a Seahawks handoff to Alexander that Kimo completely blows up by pushing ALL PRO Walter Jones into the backfield like a child. Not to mention, Kimo had a club move on pass rush that was devastating to linemen.

Keisel gets handled by OT's, his speed is the best part of his game, not his power. He has proven to be a downgrade from Kimo as a DE.

We needed to find a younger DE this year, so hopefully he can play in a year or 2 and add some depth. It hasnt happened. Same with an OT.

RoethlisBURGHer
07-17-2008, 11:30 AM
Hampton is a top 5 DT and a top 2 3-4 DT.

Aaron Smith is one of the most underrated players in the NFL. He's an excellent 3-4 DE.

Keisel, well he's got speed and might be a better fit a LB than at DE it seems. He's a downgrade from Oelhoffen, but not such a downgrade that it killed the offensive line.

However, after them it gets bad. Not much depth, and we need to draft some players to start grooming to take over for these three.

19ward86
07-17-2008, 11:35 AM
we could get it done with our staff.

benfan7
07-17-2008, 12:35 PM
Hopefully Tomlin will look Defensive End early in the draft and give them a few years to groom until they step into the starting role in the future, and for now give young depth.

DACEB
07-17-2008, 02:17 PM
The worst part is our depth, it sucks

Agreed, hopefully one of the rooks steps up and shows something.

Agree with Kimo also, Kimo and Kiesel were a great combo. Kiesel provided above average depth, though as a starter Kiesel has never played up to the level he displayed as a backup. His best attribute, IMO, was coming in on passing downs and rushing the passer.

Someone needs to step up and get in the rotation, because the starters played too many downs last year IMO.

DACEB
07-17-2008, 02:21 PM
Completely agree!! Watch SBXL again and you will see a Seahawks handoff to Alexander that Kimo completely blows up by pushing ALL PRO Walter Jones into the backfield like a child. Not to mention, Kimo had a club move on pass rush that was devastating to linemen.

Kiesel also had a great stop on Alexander, I believe a 3rd and short handoff where Kiesel just tripped him up.

Kimo and Kiesel, were a great combo at RDE.

Steel Pit
07-18-2008, 01:35 AM
I was agreeing with you untill you called Von Oelhoffen a bum. He was one of the best DE's we have had and way better than Kiesel. And also, Vrabel is a LB not a defensive lineman

Hampton and Smith are as good as it gets. Keisel is okay but not that stout against the run, compared to our past DE's and more recently Von Olhoffen....Kiesel is a big downgrade.

The worst part is our depth, it sucks


Vrabel is a LB now but the Steelers drafted him out of Ohio State where he played DE his entire collge career. The Steelers tinkered with Vrabel for 4 years, initially asking him to lose weight in order to play OLB before recanting and asking him to gain weight in order to play DE.

In my opinion the Steelers basically wasted 4 years of Vrabel's NFL career. I understand that the Steelers LB corps was pretty good at the time so it was highly unlikely that Vrabel was going to get the nod at LB. If the Steelers would have just used him as the DE that he was, then things could have turned out much better for both parties.

In reference to Kimo, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Edman
07-18-2008, 10:28 PM
D-Line is a strength... until one of the starters gets hurt. Last year Smith went down and you know what happened. Jacksonville ran all over the Steelers. Eason and Kirschke blew ass. There is no depth. AT ALL. Better hope and pray nobody gets seriously hurt in 2008.

The whole Defense had injuries that piled up last year. We really missed Clark and Smith, and Polamalu wasn't 100% either.

Haiku_Dirtt
07-19-2008, 01:45 PM
I sounds like he is saying its a strength if no body gets hurt, a weakness if they do.
I think I would probably agree with that.

I would echo this.

But it is up to Keisel to step up this season. Put Casey in the Wonder of The World category. And Smith gets double teamed like the white stuff in an Oreo.

meelanova
07-19-2008, 06:03 PM
I also thought Woodley was big enough for a 3-4 defense. He's like 6'2" 266 lbs, right?

9-5
07-19-2008, 09:59 PM
I also thought Woodley was big enough for a 3-4 defense. He's like 6'2" 266 lbs, right?
For a linebacker, yes. Not for the D-Line, where you need to be 310+ in the 3-4 scheme.

Your D-line is a strength, when healthy. If, say Hampton got hurt, your defense would be in trouble. The same could be said for the Browns. The top 3 look awesome, under them........not so much.

Preacher
07-19-2008, 10:18 PM
For a linebacker, yes. Not for the D-Line, where you need to be 310+ in the 3-4 scheme.

Your D-line is a strength, when healthy. If, say Hampton got hurt, your defense would be in trouble. The same could be said for the Browns. The top 3 look awesome, under them........not so much.

Actually, not true. Chris Hoke steps in and does a wonderful job. He could probably start on a few teams.

Now, the DE's are a different issue.

The Duke
07-20-2008, 03:15 AM
Actually, not true. Chris Hoke steps in and does a wonderful job. He could probably start on a few teams.

Now, the DE's are a different issue.

yeah, hoke filled in nicely in 2004 for hampton( #1 D with him!), and every other game he plays he is great.

if aaron goes down, oh....I don't even want to think about it

9-5
07-20-2008, 07:31 PM
Okay, so if Aaron goes down, your defense is in trouble. I was close. :chuckle:

Same situation in C-Town. If Shaun Rodgers goes down, our defense is as vulnerable as they were last year :tombstone:tombstone

El-Gonzo Jackson
07-20-2008, 10:26 PM
Same situation in C-Town. If Shaun Rodgers goes down, our defense is as vulnerable as they were last year :tombstone:tombstone

Actually if Shaun Rogers continues to workout like Charles Barkley.......he's as good as if he went down with a staph infection.

Word is Rogers work ethic isnt something that former Tampa D-line coach and current Lions coach Rod Marinelli was a fan of. You might have just traded for a 340lb slug that likes twinkies and his DS instead of finding the weight room.

9-5
07-21-2008, 12:45 AM
That's not the word I'm hearing outta Cleveland. Nothing but good reports about him and his work ethic. He has been reported as being a slim :chuckle: 320 lbs. He didn't work hard in Detroit, and who can blame him. They have been the 2nd worst team in the NFL since 2000, I think. They are going nowhere, and I wouldn't bust my self on a team that had no chance to contend for anything but the #1 pick. Would you?

The Duke
07-21-2008, 01:31 AM
They are going nowhere, and I wouldn't bust my self on a team that had no chance to contend for anything but the #1 pick. Would you?

Um....actually, I would. it's work ethic, and he seems to be missing that.

maybe changing teams will help him, but what if the browns start losing a couple of games? he'll probably get lazy, it's what he's done his whole life

the nfl needs more players with a hines ward attitude

Steel Pit
07-21-2008, 01:46 AM
That's not the word I'm hearing outta Cleveland. Nothing but good reports about him and his work ethic. He has been reported as being a slim :chuckle: 320 lbs. He didn't work hard in Detroit, and who can blame him. They have been the 2nd worst team in the NFL since 2000, I think. They are going nowhere, and I wouldn't bust my self on a team that had no chance to contend for anything but the #1 pick. Would you?


If Detroit sat him to the curb for pick up then I would venture to say that he's garbage.
I don't see too many, actually none, of the NFL teams sorting through the Detroit Lions refuse. Hell the Lions weren't even capable of selecting a productive player with their previous and numerous top 5 draft choices.

But whatever man, the Browns filled a void at DT, no more, no less. Let's not get carried away and act as if the dude is a future Pro Bowl candidate. :twocents:

paw-n-maul-u
07-21-2008, 02:15 AM
If Detroit sat him to the curb for pick up then I would venture to say that he's garbage.
I don't see too many, actually none, of the NFL teams sorting through the Detroit Lions refuse. Hell the Lions weren't even capable of selecting a productive player with their previous and numerous top 5 draft choices.

But whatever man, the Browns filled a void at DT, no more, no less. Let's not get carried away and act as if the dude is a future Pro Bowl candidate. :twocents:

Shaun Rogers has been to the probowl ... twice

Corey Williams was also a great pick up as a 3-4 DE. granted he had Kampmann and that Abaoubaoisf=jimapsjdfia guy on the other side, i have no idea how to spell his name

noone can over look the browns pick ups. I just don't understand mortgaging an entire draft for it. Rogers will be thirty before next year's draft. And for a player with weight issues, known to turn it down when a dissappointing season is just around the corner (... the way clevelands seasons have ended for how long?) ... i just don't know. Corey williams will be 29 before the start of the 09 season ... so Rogers will be 30 and Williams will be 29 before the start of the 09 season ... They both have huge contracts ...

If you didn't trade away the first three picks in the draft this year ... players available would have been ... balmer, lawrence jackson at 22, Lots of good corners still on the board at the Green Bay pick traded away ... and still lots of DT's with potential like andre fluellen from fsu and marcus harrison from ark.

Steel Pit
07-21-2008, 04:18 AM
Shaun Rogers has been to the probowl ... twice

Corey Williams was also a great pick up as a 3-4 DE. granted he had Kampmann and that Abaoubaoisf=jimapsjdfia guy on the other side, i have no idea how to spell his name

noone can over look the browns pick ups. I just don't understand mortgaging an entire draft for it. Rogers will be thirty before next year's draft. And for a player with weight issues, known to turn it down when a dissappointing season is just around the corner (... the way clevelands seasons have ended for how long?) ... i just don't know. Corey williams will be 29 before the start of the 09 season ... so Rogers will be 30 and Williams will be 29 before the start of the 09 season ... They both have huge contracts ...

If you didn't trade away the first three picks in the draft this year ... players available would have been ... balmer, lawrence jackson at 22, Lots of good corners still on the board at the Green Bay pick traded away ... and still lots of DT's with potential like andre fluellen from fsu and marcus harrison from ark.


I realize that Rogers HAS been to the Pro Bowl. I was simply pointing out that I don't foresee him going to any FUTURE Pro Bowls mainly due to the reasons that you mention in your thread. I can't speak on Corey Williams, I know very little of him so I won't act as if I do.

In closing I'll say that I don't overlook the Browns. The Browns were a viable contender for the AFC North Division even before the offseason free agent aquisitions. But as I've said before, the Steelers don't fear the Browns, I believe that the Browns fear the Steelers. That has been the difference that has routinely put the Steelers ahead of the Browns. I don't see that trend changing this upcoming season.

revefsreleets
07-21-2008, 08:36 AM
Just call him KGB.

The Browns line will improve dramatically, but mostly because they were honestly the worst DL inall of football last year. That will help free up their LB's a little, so the pass rush should be better, and they should be able to play the run a little more efficiently. But will that be enough to make up for that horribly depleted secondary? And what happens if Eric Wright gets hurt? He's the only capable DB on that team (Baxter has battled injuries his whole career and almost certainly won't make it through the season unscathed, and Terry Cousin is about 800 years old).

The Browns achilles heel is obvious to everyone, and expect teams to exploit it early and often.

Lord Stiller
07-21-2008, 08:49 AM
Shaun Rogers has performed exactly the same every year of his career: he plays great the first half of the season and takes off the 2nd half

xfl2001fan
07-21-2008, 09:54 AM
If Detroit sat him to the curb for pick up then I would venture to say that he's garbage.

Some said the same about Randy Moss coming out of Oakland. He had lost his speed/athleticism and such. Basically, he lost his drive. It's easy to do that on a perinnial loser with nobody trying to make a legitimate attempt at improving the team.

I have serious doubts that any team run by Al Davis/Matt Millen are going to go anywhere worth bragging about. The NFL left Al Davis behind a decade ago and then there's Matt Millen. Being friends with Ford has done nothing for his GM skills. The Browns (under Phil and RC) have made some real effort into improving the team, with some big hits (and some big misses.) But the effort is clearly there.

I don't know that he'll be a Pro Bowler, but I think that he'll have a positive effect on our team.

El-Gonzo Jackson
07-21-2008, 12:29 PM
I dont think Rogers will be bad. I also dont think he will be as good as all they hype that most in Cleveland think he will be. Personally I like the Williams pickup better.

Guys that sulk and play poorly on bad teams, but allegedly try harder on good teams can be a cancer and I wouldnt want them around. Its like having the best army in the world.......until the enemy fights back and they go hide in their foxhole.

Seriously though......what's the deal with all the Staph infections in Cleveland?? Bentley, Edwards, Jurevicus???

43Hitman
07-21-2008, 06:13 PM
That's not the word I'm hearing outta Cleveland. Nothing but good reports about him and his work ethic. He has been reported as being a slim :chuckle: 320 lbs. He didn't work hard in Detroit, and who can blame him. They have been the 2nd worst team in the NFL since 2000, I think. They are going nowhere, and I wouldn't bust my self on a team that had no chance to contend for anything but the #1 pick. Would you?


A team player plays his arse off no matter how good the team is or isn't. What happens when the browns start sucking. Is he going to give up because "they aren't contending anymore"? You can have him.

xfl2001fan
07-21-2008, 07:30 PM
As I've mentioned before, Randy Moss did the same thing in Oakland. His first year in NE, he broke the Single Season TD Reception record. He still took a few plays off, but he went out and made a lot of terrible Brady throws into highlight catches instead of highlight interceptions.

redst3
07-21-2008, 07:54 PM
They are going nowhere, and I wouldn't bust my self on a team that had no chance to contend for anything but the #1 pick. Would you?

You give 100% in any situation, or you get out, that should be the rule in any occupation. Also, by your work, you make the team better ands lead others. There is such a thing as a negative leader.

43Hitman
07-21-2008, 07:56 PM
As I've mentioned before, Randy Moss did the same thing in Oakland. His first year in NE, he broke the Single Season TD Reception record. He still took a few plays off, but he went out and made a lot of terrible Brady throws into highlight catches instead of highlight interceptions.

Paint it how you wish. I am just glad he's on your team and not ours. I still say the first sign of trouble he tanks it.

xfl2001fan
07-21-2008, 08:36 PM
Paint it how you wish. I am just glad he's on your team and not ours. I still say the first sign of trouble he tanks it.

In regards to our D-line, I'm cautiously optimistic. However, the cases have their similarities. Really, until they take the field in September, the best that I'll get is cautiously optimistic.

Lord Stiller
07-22-2008, 07:22 AM
In regards to our D-line, I'm cautiously optimistic. However, the cases have their similarities. Really, until they take the field in September, the best that I'll get is cautiously optimistic.

Nobody gives a flying f*ck about the Browns, this is a Steelers forum

vasteeler
07-22-2008, 07:56 AM
Nobody gives a flying f*ck about the Browns, this is a Steelers forum

i was wondering when someone was going to speak up:tt02::helmet::tt::sign03::sign03:

SteelMember
07-22-2008, 09:08 AM
Here's the starting Dline for the Browns from the eyes of a Steelers fan - :poop: :poop: :poop: :poop:

xfl2001fan
07-22-2008, 09:44 AM
Well if this is a Steelers forum and nobody cares about the Browns, then why do so many Steelers fans talk about them? Why do you have an entire thread dedicated to the Browns? Because you do care. You may not like my team, but what happens in Cleveland does hold importance to you guys.

fansince'76
07-22-2008, 09:54 AM
Well if this is a Steelers forum and nobody cares about the Browns, then why do so many Steelers fans talk about them? Why do you have an entire thread dedicated to the Browns?

We have a Browns thread in the Blast Furnace, not in the "Pittsburgh Steelers" forum.

xfl2001fan
07-22-2008, 10:19 AM
We have a Browns thread in the Blast Furnace, not in the "Pittsburgh Steelers" forum.

That answers one of my questions. Is that the only place you guys dis the Browns (and their fans) at? Nope. It's because you care.

vasteeler
07-22-2008, 10:27 AM
i for one love the browns i just dont want them to win any games

El-Gonzo Jackson
07-22-2008, 10:57 AM
That answers one of my questions. Is that the only place you guys dis the Browns (and their fans) at? Nope. It's because you care.

Its called "rivalry" dude.

I dont mind talking about the Browns, staph infections, great playoff comebacks and stuff objectively. Its kind of fun. But like Joey Porter said......"when its all over you will still be gettin' on the turnpike and goin' home losers"

xfl2001fan
07-22-2008, 11:30 AM
Paint it how you want to, but the Browns mean more to you guys than just two games a year.

stlrtruck
07-22-2008, 02:45 PM
i for one love the browns i just dont want them to win any games

Actually, IMHO, a true Steelers fan would want the clowns to win enough games as not to get in the top 10 draft picks.

stlrtruck
07-22-2008, 02:46 PM
Paint it how you want to, but the Browns mean more to you guys than just two games a year.

Yes, usually when they're playing against a team that I have fantasy players on, it's usually when I score outrageous points.

El-Gonzo Jackson
07-22-2008, 03:06 PM
Paint it how you want to, but the Browns mean more to you guys than just two games a year.

Yeah, it means when my friend that is a former OSU RB and Browns fan for life calls me up in the first half of last seasons matchup when the clowns were up by 13pts to rub it in...........I always get to call him back to see if he noticed the FINAL SCORE. Steelers 31...Browns 28.

Welcome To Smashmouth
07-22-2008, 05:59 PM
Our starters are solid. Depth is where we're lacking.

Aaron Smith and Casey Hampton can be thrown in the "best at the position" talks, and Keisel isn't a bad finish. It would be nice to see RE upgraded a bit and still use Keisel is certain sets. I know its early, but my thoughts upon the wake of the season is that D-Line will be our #2 position attacked in the '09 draft

revefsreleets
07-22-2008, 07:29 PM
They are division rivals. They both run a 3-4. It's easy for the conversation to swing back and forth. I was VERY guilty of talking about the Browns DL in this thread.

Sorry: )