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View Full Version : Be all you can be????


rbryan
07-24-2008, 09:15 AM
The US Army in its infinite wisdom has changed its mind and pulled the rug out from under Caleb Campbell. After allowing him to enter the draft and get picked up in the 7th rd by the Detroit Lions. He was told yesterday that he must report for active duty and give up his dreams of playing in the NFL until 2010 which in effect eliminates any chance he had.

Gotta feel bad for this kid. I know he made a committment to the Army when he accepted the scholarship to attend West Point, but where is the common sense in this move?? You would think they would jump at the chance to have this kid make the roster and take advantage of the positive publicity. The original plan was to allow him to play and be a recruiter/PR guy for the Army. Instead the Army comes across in its usual fashion. How they get anyone to join these days is beyond me.

xfl2001fan
07-24-2008, 09:22 AM
DoD policy was set and the Army had deviated from that in the past. However, that has been rectified.

How was it fair to the Navy and Airforce that their recruits/players/candidates couldn't go play professional sports but the Army guys could. A contract is a contract...and this kid signed that contract. He'll have to do his duty and see just how dedicated he really is to playing professional football in 2010.

The only thing the Army is guilty of is an illegal deviation of policy.

rbryan
07-24-2008, 09:29 AM
Talk about crashing back to reality. One minute the kid is on an NFL roster the next he's possibly headed to Iraq to get shot at. I can't imagine what must be going through his head right now.

millwalldavey
07-24-2008, 09:34 AM
He signed up for duty, he should complete his duty. Loopholes be damned.

rbryan
07-24-2008, 09:38 AM
Not saying he should be relieved of his duty. The Army has thousands of recruiters, why not let this kid do both? I think he could get more kids to enlist than your average recruiter sitting in an office somewhere.

xfl2001fan
07-24-2008, 09:39 AM
Talk about crashing back to reality. One minute the kid is on an NFL roster the next he's possibly headed to Iraq to get shot at. I can't imagine what must be going through his head right now.

Forget this kid and his thoughts. Imagine how his classmates must have felt when they first heard they were going to be shot at and this kid was going to be a recruiter and an NFL player, despite the fact that his contract said (essentially) the same thing as theirs.

Athleticism should not be a reason for letting someone out of their contract. This kid nearly got a "break" because he was good at a popular game. I can guarantee you I can find 1000 other Soldier's who have better reasons for becoming recruiters (and thus avoiding combat) than some kid fresh out of college. I can find 1000 other Soldier's who have been deployed two and three times since this kid first left HS.

They've done far more for this country to deserve a break than this kid has. I don't pity him for his "loss." He really doesn't know what "loss" is yet. And if he thinks he's recently faced a hard reality, let him talk to last year's Senior class, or the Senior class from two years ago what "reality" is really like.

I've got three deployments in (nearly) 11 years of service. I find it hard to pity any athlete.

fansince'76
07-24-2008, 11:22 AM
Although I initially disagreed with the exception that was made for this kid (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=392610#post392610), I have to think that reversing the decision to let him pursue a NFL career now isn't exactly going to help recruitment and retention efforts for the Army. The Army should have stood firm from the get-go.

xfl2001fan
07-24-2008, 11:29 AM
Although I initially disagreed with the exception that was made for this kid (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=392610#post392610), I have to think that reversing the decision to let him pursue a NFL career now isn't exactly going to help recruitment and retention efforts for the Army. The Army should have stood firm from the get-go.

The Army policy does not supersede the DoD policy. They made the mistake of trying that. The got away with it for a while. But who's going to report that? It's much better to just shed people in a negative light than to get the whole story. That's what it feels like media today is all about. Forget a left wing or right wing media, it's all about the negativity.

HometownGal
07-24-2008, 11:36 AM
The Army should have stood firm from the get-go.

I agree for the most part. I feel bad for this young man that he can't pursue his dream right now, but he did accept the West Point scholarship with all of the "trimmings" so to speak. It's not like he can't pick up his dream in a year or two, however, with all of the flip-flopping going on with government today, the Army should have took a firm stance one way or the other and not have deviated from it.

xfl2001fan
07-24-2008, 11:52 AM
I agree for the most part. I feel bad for this young man that he can't pursue his dream right now, but he did accept the West Point scholarship with all of the "trimmings" so to speak. It's not like he can't pick up his dream in a year or two, however, with all of the flip-flopping going on with government today, the Army should have took a firm stance one way or the other and not have deviated from it.

The Army (and all of the other branches) answer to the DoD. DoD policy is that servicemembers will abide by their contracts. You can add to policy when you're further down the chain, but you can't take away.

The Army had no right to make that kind of promise.

It's like the NFL policy on filming. The New England Patriots had no right to do what they did. They tried to play by their own rules and the NFL over-ruled on it.

There is no standing firm in this issue. Flip-flopping was only necessary because the Army tried to break their higher headquarters standing policy.

The Duke
07-24-2008, 12:06 PM
well, he's gottta do what's he's gotta do

I feel bad for him, but it's service. all we can do is wish him the best and hope he accomplishes his dream

I'll be rooting for you campbell!!

HometownGal
07-24-2008, 12:33 PM
The Army (and all of the other branches) answer to the DoD. DoD policy is that servicemembers will abide by their contracts. You can add to policy when you're further down the chain, but you can't take away.

The Army had no right to make that kind of promise.

It's like the NFL policy on filming. The New England Patriots had no right to do what they did. They tried to play by their own rules and the NFL over-ruled on it.

There is no standing firm in this issue. Flip-flopping was only necessary because the Army tried to break their higher headquarters standing policy.

Thanks for the explanation xfl. :drink: I have a better understanding of the whole situation now.

As Duke said, all we can do at this point is wish this young man well and pray for his safety as we pray for all of our servicemen and women. :usa::salute:

stlrtruck
07-24-2008, 01:26 PM
While I'm sure the guy is disappointed that it will be until 2010 before he can strap on a NFL uniform, I'm glad to see that he's being held accountable for his contract.

Who knows, maybe he'll be able to maintain some conditioning aspect while he's serving and come back to the Lions when he's eligible.


As for the rentention of soldiers, I'm sure it's not a problem. The majority are enlisted and probably don't care that this guy has to come back. I'm sure they'll be looking for him if they have a pickup game of football - but really I'm sure they could care less about his football career. They enlisted, they've honored their contracts, and they probably feel that officers should have to do the same...

but that's all my opinion - what the heck do I know sitting where I am.

LambertIsGod58
07-24-2008, 02:15 PM
Although I initially disagreed with the exception that was made for this kid (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=392610#post392610), I have to think that reversing the decision to let him pursue a NFL career now isn't exactly going to help recruitment and retention efforts for the Army. The Army should have stood firm from the get-go.


Hey buddy....we agree on something. I disagreed with the fact that they made an exception for this kid. For the simple reason that his blood is not any less red than anyone else headed to Iraq. He signed the contract knowing full well the consequences. However, it isn't right for the Army to say that he can pursue his dream, just to rip it away from him. But that's our government for ya.

missedgehead
07-24-2008, 02:15 PM
I do not have a problem with the kid having to fulfill his obligations to the Army. My problem is the Army's flip flopping and changing the rules in the middle of the game and yingyanging the kid. First they said he could participate and now they say, THE DAY BEFORE TRAINING CAMP, mind you, he can't. Bad PR for the Army, no matter how you slice it. The Army should have made one stance one way or the other and set one set of rules. I feel bad for the kid. Bad call by the Army. Sorry.

Preacher
07-24-2008, 02:54 PM
If I remember right, there IS a loophole for certain people coming out of the academies.

Again, if memory serves, David Robinson was released from service... but made HIS OWN DECISION.... that he would fulfill his contract.

I don't know what that loophole was, but I remember hearing about it.

Found this in a CBS sportswriter blog.

David Robinson never complained upon graduating from the Naval Academy and serving two years of active duty before the military allowed him to leave early for the NBA.

http://www.eveningnews.com/stories/sportsline/main10907769.shtml


BTW... Read the blog.. it is pretty good on this subject.

RoethlisBURGHer
07-24-2008, 03:20 PM
From what I understand the DoD has a policy in effect that let him leave after graduation to play in the NFL as long as he was on an NFL roster (if cut at all during training camp or the season, he would automatically be put into active duty) and would be a recruiter. Now they are changing this policy, and he's being forced into active duty. And this loophole was there for people of "special talents", not just football players.

I feel anyone released from active duty under this policy should have been grandfathered in, instead of being yanked out of whatever career path they found themselves in. In the end, this is going to make the military and the government look worse than they already do.

Also, the Navy and Air Force had the option of using this policy but decided against it. Now they are upset because the Army used it to their advantage. It was there for any branch of the military to use, but those two decided not to. Not the Army's fault.

Hammer Of The GODS
07-24-2008, 06:44 PM
Well I guess the only place xfl2001fan and I agree is outside football! :chuckle:

I am a former Marine who served in the big sandbox. No other soldier is given the oppurtunity to not go to war if there is a better offer. Sure the Army went sideways on this issue ( isn't the first and wont be the last time ) but bottom line is this kid swore an oath to defend his country, now his country is calling and he has to answer!

If the kid had enough talent to be drafted then his HS coaches should have told him to get a football scholarship at a university. He should have thought it through more, if the NFL was his dream he should have pursued it!

I wish him well. and hope he gets back to live out his dream.

Preacher
07-24-2008, 07:21 PM
Well I guess the only place xfl2001fan and I agree is outside football! :chuckle:

I am a former Marine who served in the big sandbox. No other soldier is given the oppurtunity to not go to war if there is a better offer. Sure the Army went sideways on this issue ( isn't the first and wont be the last time ) but bottom line is this kid swore an oath to defend his country, now his country is calling and he has to answer!

If the kid had enough talent to be drafted then his HS coaches should have told him to get a football scholarship at a university. He should have thought it through more, if the NFL was his dream he should have pursued it!

I wish him well. and hope he gets back to live out his dream.


Nice thing is, from what I understand, he isn't saying a word about it.. except for yessir and nosir.

It is others who are making the flap...

tony hipchest
07-24-2008, 07:35 PM
im sure the answer is "yes" and "yes" but did he sign a deal with detroit and does he get to keep his bonus? (probably around $50,000 or so)

xfl2001fan
07-24-2008, 10:13 PM
im sure the answer is "yes" and "yes" but did he sign a deal with detroit and does he get to keep his bonus? (probably around $50,000 or so)

I don't know that a 50K signing bonus was on the table for the kid. That seems high for where he was drafted. I could be wrong, it's been a while since I've looked at a signing bonus for anybody not already an NFL Vet or for any second day pick.

As for whether he keeps it or not, that's really dependent on how Detroit wishes to deal with the issue and the language of the contract.

fansince'76
07-24-2008, 10:29 PM
I don't know that a 50K signing bonus was on the table for the kid. That seems high for where he was drafted.

Nope, that's about right....

As a seventh-round draft pick, he will get a signing bonus in the range of $45,000. The minimum salary for a rookie in the NFL is $295,000. He keeps any money he makes from outside endorsements.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080721/SPORTS0101/807210338/1004/SPORTS (under right sidebar entitled "More Information")

xfl2001fan
07-24-2008, 10:34 PM
Nope, that's about right....



http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080721/SPORTS0101/807210338/1004/SPORTS (under right sidebar entitled "More Information")

Wow, thank you. I wasn't really sure. I don't pay too much attention to the salaries of 5th+ round picks, because of the likelihood (or lack thereof) that they will produce. I know it's an insignificant amount (which is really sad to say) compared to some of the more high profile players in the league.

fansince'76
07-24-2008, 10:37 PM
Wow, thank you. I wasn't really sure. I don't pay too much attention to the salaries of 5th+ round picks, because of the likelihood (or lack thereof) that they will produce.

Yeah, me neither - I thought 50K was awful high too - I figured it would be in the neighborhood of 10-15K at the most.

xfl2001fan
07-24-2008, 10:40 PM
Yeah, me neither - I thought 50K was awful high too - I figured it would be in the neighborhood of 10-15K at the most.

I make just a little bit more in a year than he is signing for. That's the saddest thing to me. I work for the United States Army as a Civilian and as an Army Reservist, he's a football player. He's not getting a bonus like that because he's a West Point Grad, he's getting that because he can play a game.

Then, on top of it all, I'd have to salute him if we ran into each other in uniform. I've got more time on the shitter overseas than he has working for Active Army...:banging:

fansince'76
07-24-2008, 11:05 PM
I work for the United States Army as a Civilian and as an Army Reservist.....

Small world - I used to work for the Army at Ft. Richardson (Alaska) as a civilian after I got out of the Army back in '92 myself. :drink:

xfl2001fan
07-25-2008, 08:10 AM
Small world - I used to work for the Army at Ft. Richardson (Alaska) as a civilian after I got out of the Army back in '92 myself. :drink:

Yeah, working as a Civilian (non-contractor) bites right now. Overworked and underpaid compared to "true civilian" counterparts.

I've dropped a warrant packet and hope to be going to Warrant Officer Candidate School (Property Book Technician) in the fall. If accepted, I'll be going active duty once I get MOSQ. That's my career goal anyways.

Still, I'd love to work at Alaska. I've heard nothing but good things about being there.

SteelerFanInATL
07-25-2008, 04:58 PM
The Army has totally screwed Campbell from the Detroit Lions. This kid was ready to start training camp in a couple of days and the Army tells him he has to serve a 2 year commitment. WTF!!!! Why did they even let him enter the draft???!!! I read that they just recently changed their policy. Why couldn't they have grandfathered him and let him play. I guess they couldn't deal with a before and after type of thing. Knowing the Army like I do (20 yrs service, currently retired) they knew what they were planning on doing before he was drafted. Then to make it worse they tell him a few days before training camp begins. Hows that for timing. Now they expect him to be motivated to do what they want him to do. This is some serious BS!!!!!!!!!!


SFC,Retired
US Army

rbryan
07-25-2008, 05:36 PM
I spent 6 years in the suck (USMC) so I know all about getting mind phucked. I'm not saying I disagree with the policy. Two years isn't a lot to ask after giving him a first rate West Point education for free. As far as that goes two years is letting him off the hook easy IMO. I just think the timing is horrible and and a huge PR hit for the Army to flip flop like this at the last second. So in other words, this is about par for the course.....Which was my original point.

xfl2001fan
07-25-2008, 06:52 PM
The Army has totally screwed Campbell from the Detroit Lions. This kid was ready to start training camp in a couple of days and the Army tells him he has to serve a 2 year commitment. WTF!!!! Why did they even let him enter the draft???!!! I read that they just recently changed their policy. Why couldn't they have grandfathered him and let him play. I guess they couldn't deal with a before and after type of thing. Knowing the Army like I do (20 yrs service, currently retired) they knew what they were planning on doing before he was drafted. Then to make it worse they tell him a few days before training camp begins. Hows that for timing. Now they expect him to be motivated to do what they want him to do. This is some serious BS!!!!!!!!!!


SFC,Retired
US Army

You should know, then, that DoD policy supersedes Army policy. The Army was required to change their policy. It was a BS policy to begin with.

As for his motivation, if saving your own life and the life of another isn't motivation enough, he shouldn't have joined West Point to begin with.

xfl2001fan
07-25-2008, 06:53 PM
I spent 6 years in the suck (USMC) so I know all about getting mind phucked.

Navy Infantry huh?
:flap:

Do any time overseas or on a ship?

rbryan
07-25-2008, 07:24 PM
If I told ya I'd have to kill ya......lol

KeiselPower99
07-26-2008, 03:19 PM
The Army just shot itself in the foot with this one. Recruitment for the Armed Forces is difficult enough, Now this. Caleb did an interview on Sirius and he was very postive and upbeat. Hopefully something works out for him in the end.

stlrtruck
07-28-2008, 09:05 AM
Out of it all, this kid has taken the high road and honored his original agreement. Forget about the DoD or the Army executives making the decisions.

I commend this guy for saying, I'll do what I'm suppose to do. No whining, no complaining, just flat out being A MAN!!!