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tony hipchest
07-27-2008, 12:42 PM
on his recent trip to Jerusalem Oboma visited the Western Wall of Solomons temple, considered the holiest site of Jewish tradition and revered by Christians. he wrote a customary prayer and stuffed it into the cracks of the wall, like hundereds of thousands of tourists and worshippers do every year.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25864015/?GT1=43001

Dear 8 pound 3 ounce Lord baby Jesus wrapped in a swaddling cloth,

Thank you for all my wealth and fortune and please deliver all the power that comes with ruling the most powerful nation on earth. Please give me the strength to defeat the crippled old coot, John McCain, and thank you for the help beating that bitch Hillary. And i promise when I am elected president the only hoe sucking my dick in the Oval Office will be my wife.

Amen

:jawdrop: WOW! :chuckle:

seriously, what the hell did they expect to find and expose by publishing a private prayer? is nothing sacred?

dumb question... of course not.

fansince'76
07-27-2008, 12:55 PM
http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/ap/3a4ba638-c3b7-47a6-bd7d-ed366a6b4f42.hmedium.jpg

Obama's Jewish? :jawdrop: :chuckle:

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-27-2008, 01:04 PM
http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/ap/3a4ba638-c3b7-47a6-bd7d-ed366a6b4f42.hmedium.jpg

Obama's Jewish? :jawdrop: :chuckle:

Somehere....as we speak...a New Yorker artist is drawing up a WHOLE new magazine cover.

stillers4me
07-27-2008, 01:17 PM
http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/ap/3a4ba638-c3b7-47a6-bd7d-ed366a6b4f42.hmedium.jpg

Obama's Jewish? :jawdrop: :chuckle:

Talk about flip flopping............. :sofunny:

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-27-2008, 02:43 PM
I guess this little trip overseas is supposed to be passed off for public consumption as..."international experience"?

Lets all give a big hand to the "Casting Couch Candidate"....Hollywoods version of a President.....Barak Obama!!!!.:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

He may have never passed any substantial legislation...or have any legitimate experience... but he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express while in Israel.:thumbsup:

revefsreleets
07-27-2008, 05:15 PM
It was brilliant PR.

HometownGal
07-27-2008, 06:46 PM
They forgot to give him the right yarmulke . . . :doh:

http://www.costumesofnashua.com/CNWebSite105/Active905/Pictures/PicHat/HClownFunny/hatfunnyBeanieRedJ2-2.jpg

Atlanta Dan
07-27-2008, 08:03 PM
They forgot to give him the right yarmulke . . . :doh:

http://www.costumesofnashua.com/CNWebSite105/Active905/Pictures/PicHat/HClownFunny/hatfunnyBeanieRedJ2-2.jpg

Hope you continue to enjoy laughing about it HTG - you are going to be seeing a lot of him for at least the next 4 & 1/2 years:chuckle:

HometownGal
07-27-2008, 08:31 PM
Hope you continue to enjoy laughing about it HTG - you are going to be seeing a lot of him for at least the next 4 & 1/2 years:chuckle:

Maybe so, but not in the White House. :chuckle:

stillers4me
07-27-2008, 08:37 PM
Maybe if he gets sent back to the senate, he'll actually get his first piece of legislation through. :chuckle:

HometownGal
07-27-2008, 08:45 PM
Maybe if he gets sent back to the senate, he'll actually get his first piece of legislation through. :chuckle:

That's IF he bothers to show up to present that legislation (and vote on it). :chuckle:

Preacher
07-28-2008, 12:12 AM
Well...

If you read the actual prayer that was published....


There is no way you can tell me that he HADN'T anticipated it being read.

I wonder who it was that really found it?

Steelman16
07-28-2008, 03:08 AM
Somebody enlighten me...

Why would an Israeli magazine publish a note from Obama stuck in the Wailing Wall? It makes no sense to me. I can see why the Obama campaign would do it for PR to promote his "Christian" side, but the rest of the facts confuse me.

Either way, folks should respect the tradition of such a place. I don't care who it is.

Atlanta Dan
07-28-2008, 07:01 AM
Well...

If you read the actual prayer that was published....


There is no way you can tell me that he HADN'T anticipated it being read.

I wonder who it was that really found it?

Of course Obama knew it might be published - the media will go to extraordinary lengths to stick its beak into everything - everyone politician except (apparently) John Edwards should know that and should act accordingly

The official story on how the prayer was released is that:

The Israeli paper Maariv obtains the note Obama left at the Western Wall in Jerusalem and puts a photograph of it on its front page....

The paper reports that the note was taken by a yeshiva student who was at the wall at the time — a mark of how virtually nothing remains private.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0708/Obamas_note.html?showall

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-28-2008, 08:25 AM
Has anyone ...on either side of the aisle ...ever heard even ONE legitimate thing about Obama that would lead you to believe that he should be president?

I have heard that he:

1)...is a Democrat
2)...is not McCain

But NOONE has been able to produce even ONE legitimate piece of legislation or legitimate experience that warrant a vote.

Have we become such a shallow society that we now vote for a symbol...and the hell with substance????

Seriously..this drives me up the wall. People that I would consider at least moderately intelligent seem to have no problem putting rational thought and common sense on the shelf to back this cardboard cut-out.

Someone please help me with this ....please tell me SOMETHING that this man has done that warrants the boyfriend/girlfriend crush that people have one him.

HometownGal
07-28-2008, 08:32 AM
Has anyone ...on either side of the aisle ...ever heard even ONE legitimate thing about Obama that would lead you to believe that he should be president?

I have heard that he:

1)...is a Democrat
2)...is not McCain

But NOONE has been able to produce even ONE legitimate piece of legislation or legitimate experience that warrant a vote.

Have we become such a shallow society that we now vote for a symbol...and the hell with substance????

Seriously..this drives me up the wall. People that I would consider at least moderately intelligent seem to have no problem putting rational thought and common sense on the shelf to back this cardboard cut-out.

Someone please help me with this ....please tell me SOMETHING that this man has done that warrants the boyfriend/girlfriend crush that people have one him.

I have been wondering this myself, LLT, since Obama first announced his candidacy and his bandwagon started filling up. I've done a lot of reading on the guy and like you, I don't understand what the love affair with him is all about. :doh: What really has he done with his 3 years of Senate experience to even qualify as a candidate for the highest office in the land?

I love your description - cardboard cutout. :toofunny::toofunny:

Atlanta Dan
07-28-2008, 09:03 AM
I have been wondering this myself, LLT, since Obama first announced his candidacy and his bandwagon started filling up. I've done a lot of reading on the guy and like you, I don't understand what the love affair with him is all about. :doh: What really has he done with his 3 years of Senate experience to even qualify as a candidate for the highest office in the land?

I love your description - cardboard cutout. :toofunny::toofunny:

Keep laughing while you walk me through McCain's vast legislative accomplishments after a quarter century in Congress

Be careful about citing McCain-Feingold, which keeps running into pesky encounters with the First Amendment on its regular trips to the Supreme Court for judicial review, and feel free to ignore Saint John's adventures in influence peddling as one of the Keating Five

Oh, and for anyone keeping score at home :thumbsup:

Barack Obama now leads John McCain among national registered voters by a 49% to 40% margin in Gallup Poll Daily tracking conducted July 24-26

This represents a continuation of Obama's front-runner position evident in the last three Gallup Poll Daily tracking updates. The margin, coincident with the extensive U.S. news coverage of Obama's foreign tour, is the largest for Obama over McCain measured since Gallup began tracking the general election horserace in March.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109102/Gallup-Daily-Obama-49-McCain-40.aspx

These posts have the same "bitter" edge as Steelers fans bitching about the Patriots after the Steelers regularly get smacked around - if your guy is so superior when is he going to start having the voters appreciate his grearter qualifications for teh job (or are the voters simply not as perceptive as elitist posters on this board?:wink02:)

In all seriousness, it's a Democrat year after W has done a magnificent job of antagonizing most of the electorate - the country wants change, which also is the reason Hillary got dumped - feel free to claim the electorate is wrong on that one too

HometownGal
07-28-2008, 09:24 AM
Keep laughing while you walk me through McCain's vast legislative accomplishments after a quarter century in Congress

Be careful about citing McCain-Feingold, which keeps running into pesky encounters with the First Amendment on its regular trips to the Supreme Court for judicial review, and feel free to ignore Saint John's adventures in influence peddling as one of the Keating Five

Oh, and for anyone keeping score at home :thumbsup:

Barack Obama now leads John McCain among national registered voters by a 49% to 40% margin in Gallup Poll Daily tracking conducted July 24-26

This represents a continuation of Obama's front-runner position evident in the last three Gallup Poll Daily tracking updates. The margin, coincident with the extensive U.S. news coverage of Obama's foreign tour, is the largest for Obama over McCain measured since Gallup began tracking the general election horserace in March.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109102/Gallup-Daily-Obama-49-McCain-40.aspx

These posts have the same "bitter" edge as Steelers fans bitching about the Patriots - if your guy is so superior when is he going to start having the voters appreciate his grearter qualifications for teh job (or are the voters simply not as perceptive as elitist posters on this board?:wink02:)

Nice try, but no cigar, Dan. :wink02:

You STILL have not answered LLT's or my inquiries as to what the love affair is with Obama and what he has accomplished to qualify him to be the holder of the highest office in the nation.

I pay no mind to polls as both parties can (and have) twist and turn them to their advantage. Kerry was trouncing Bush in the polls in the last election and we all saw how accurate those polls were. :chuckle:

Dan - there was really no call for the "elitist" comment. We simply asked a question that millions of Americans are asking, as well.

P.S. A 9% margin before the conventions isn't anything McCain is going to shake in his shoes over. :wink02:

Atlanta Dan
07-28-2008, 09:28 AM
P.S. A 9% margin before the conventions isn't anything McCain is going to shake in his shoes over. :wink02:

Walk me through what McCain's accompishments are - at his advanced age he surely has some

As far as being 9 points down, I assume you agree he would prefer to be ahead

I also apologize for not recalling the GOP being so vexed about a candidate's accomplishments in government when it nominated someone 8 years ago whose greatest accomplishment was having a minority ownership stake in the Texas Rangers - the GOP pretty much based its campaign eight years ago on "change" and now it is facing the same arguments

You can be as distressed as you want to be about this but your guy is heading for a loss

Just Win Baby!

HometownGal
07-28-2008, 09:43 AM
Walk me through what McCain's accompishments are - at his age he surely has some

As far as being 9 points down, I assume you agree he would prefer to be ahead

You still are evading the questions that were asked, Dan. :wink02: The discussion isn't about McCain.

Sure he would prefer to be ahead but being 9 points down at this point in the election process is nothing to be concerned about. If this were mid to late October, I could see the cause for concern, but again, polls can be and have been molded, again - as evidenced by the 2004 Presidential election.

I'm not distressed at all, Dan, because I believe McCain will win this election hands down.

Atlanta Dan
07-28-2008, 09:46 AM
You still are evading the questions that were asked, Dan. :wink02: The discussion isn't about McCain.

Sure he would prefer to be ahead but being 9 points down at this point in the election process is nothing to be concerned about. If this were mid to late October, I could see the cause for concern, but again, polls can be and have been molded, again - as evidenced by the 2004 Presidential election.

I'm not distressed at all, Dan, because I believe McCain will win this election hands down.

Bet?

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-28-2008, 09:47 AM
Keep laughing while you walk me through McCain's vast legislative accomplishments after a quarter century in Congress

Be careful about citing McCain-Feingold, which keeps running into pesky encounters with the First Amendment on its regular trips to the Supreme Court for judicial review, and feel free to ignore Saint John's adventures in influence peddling as one of the Keating Five

Oh, and for anyone keeping score at home :thumbsup:

Barack Obama now leads John McCain among national registered voters by a 49% to 40% margin in Gallup Poll Daily tracking conducted July 24-26

This represents a continuation of Obama's front-runner position evident in the last three Gallup Poll Daily tracking updates. The margin, coincident with the extensive U.S. news coverage of Obama's foreign tour, is the largest for Obama over McCain measured since Gallup began tracking the general election horserace in March.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109102/Gallup-Daily-Obama-49-McCain-40.aspx

These posts have the same "bitter" edge as Steelers fans bitching about the Patriots after the Steelers regularly get smacked around - if your guy is so superior when is he going to start having the voters appreciate his grearter qualifications for teh job (or are the voters simply not as perceptive as elitist posters on this board?:wink02:)

In all seriousness, it's a Democrat year after W has done a magnificent job of antagonizing most of the electorate - the country wants change, which also is the reason Hillary got dumped - feel free to claim the electorate is wrong on that one too

Perfect example of what I am talking about...7 paragraphs full of 1)..Hes a Democrat. 2)...He's not McCain.

Not one bit of information that what Obama offers...
Not one bit on insight into his credentials...
Not one fact about his experience or his legislative history.

Godfather
07-28-2008, 09:48 AM
Well...

If you read the actual prayer that was published....


There is no way you can tell me that he HADN'T anticipated it being read.

I wonder who it was that really found it?

Not an Obama fan, but I have to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. Those prayers are supposed to be private, and a reasonable person would expect the most sacred Jewish site to be respected in Israel. Pope John Paul's prayer wasn't published.

What's particularly repugnant was the newspaper's actions. Either they violated a private letter from Obama to God, or they participated in the use of the Wailing Wall for political purposes.

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-28-2008, 09:48 AM
You still are evading the questions that were asked, Dan. :wink02: The discussion isn't about McCain.



...and that says it all.

rbryan
07-28-2008, 09:56 AM
In the immortal words of Andre Agassi " Image is everything"

I can't get too excited about McCain either, but at least he looks like presidential material. Is it too much to ask that the Dems find somebody whose name doesn't remind me of 911??? Doesn't say much for Hillary does it??

All this talk of which one is more deserving, has the experience, etc... is amusing to me.....Its already widely accepted that neither one is much of a choice. Since neither one can impress us with thier brilliance the next best thing is brilliant bullshit. How is anyone supposed to make a decision based on fact when the "facts" depend on which media outlet you're tuned into.

tony hipchest
07-28-2008, 10:06 AM
You STILL have not answered LLT's or my inquiries as to what the love affair is with Obama and what he has accomplished to qualify him to be the holder of the highest office in the nation.



i think its kinda like the steelers picking tomlin over grimm and whiz...

Somebody enlighten me...

Why would an Israeli magazine publish a note from Obama stuck in the Wailing Wall? It makes no sense to me. I can see why the Obama campaign would do it for PR to promote his "Christian" side, but the rest of the facts confuse me.

Either way, folks should respect the tradition of such a place. I don't care who it is.

finally! :applaudit: thank you.

btw it could just as easilly be said the obama campaign did it to promote his "Jewish" side, as his prayer had no mention of Christ as his Lord and Savior. (although i dont think it was a pr stunt, just a traditional prayer at a holy site).

personally, i think its just as scummy if it were to happen to mccain, jeff dahmer, or anyone. its like wire tapping a priests booth during confessions. or a dr's office or lawyers office. some things are expected to remain confidential.

edit: great post godfather! my sentiments exactly.

Atlanta Dan
07-28-2008, 10:19 AM
Doesn't say much for Hillary does it??
.

No it does not - IMO the most important choice this year already has been made with her elimination from contention.

If McCain wins so be it (we certainly have seen worse) - a Hillary win would have driven me up the wall.

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-28-2008, 10:23 AM
i think its kinda like the steelers picking tomlin over grimm and whiz...



I dont know if that comparison holds out, Tony.

If the comparison is that a Head Coach is the President....then didnt Tomlin show himself to be very successful as a Coordinator/Senator?

Obama has NOT shown himself to be as successful or productive in his role leading up to the Presidency.

HometownGal
07-28-2008, 10:30 AM
Bet?

Absolutely! I never make a bet unless I'm 100% sure I'll win it (ask TBD :chuckle:), so you're on! :drink:

How about - loser contributes $25.00 to the site?

fansince'76
07-28-2008, 10:32 AM
:popcorn:

tony hipchest
07-28-2008, 10:39 AM
I dont know if that comparison holds out, Tony.

If the comparison is that a Head Coach is the President....then didnt Tomlin show himself to be very successful as a Coordinator/Senator?

Obama has NOT shown himself to be as successful or productive in his role leading up to the Presidency.i think its a great comparison.

tomlin was d-coord for 1 year for a less than stellar vikings team. infact his vikings d was badly exposed on monday night vs. the patriots (who gotta be looked at as the team pittsburgh has got to knock off to reach the sb).

just the fact that obama was elected to the senate and then nominated as the democratic presidential candidate shows some level of success and production.

tomlin was hired to be a leader of men, not rewarded for what he had done in the past.

Atlanta Dan
07-28-2008, 10:40 AM
Absolutely! I never make a bet unless I'm 100% sure I'll win it (ask TBD :chuckle:), so you're on! :drink:

How about - loser contributes $25.00 to the site?

Deal - one thing we can agree on is the loser's (aka your :chuckle:) contribution will be to a worthy cause:drink:

HometownGal
07-28-2008, 11:22 AM
Deal - one thing we can agree on is the loser's (aka your :chuckle:) contribution will be to a worthy cause:drink:

Better get an extra little bit on the retainer there, counselor. You're going to need it come November! (And thank you in advance for your generous contribution!) :tt03::drink:

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-28-2008, 11:29 AM
i think its a great comparison.

tomlin was d-coord for 1 year for a less than stellar vikings team. infact his vikings d was badly exposed on monday night vs. the patriots (who gotta be looked at as the team pittsburgh has got to knock off to reach the sb).

just the fact that obama was elected to the senate and then nominated as the democratic presidential candidate shows some level of success and production.

tomlin was hired to be a leader of men, not rewarded for what he had done in the past.

Being elected to the senate was not a level of success for Obama...it was a one person race after his first opponant dropped out, after the Chicago Sun Times had his divorce records opened and made public...especially in regards to his ex-wifes claim of sexual impropriaties.

Obama couldnt run on his state record since he has always failed to vote on controversial issues (Voted "present" 129 times to avoid taking a side)...so his opponants scandal was a God-send

The second candidate had no chance..being that he started late and noone really knew who he was.

As far as being nominated to to be a presedential candidate...well...

He appears to me to be just an extention of the Democrats prior plan to promote symbolism over substance...They tried to presented both Gore and Kerry as "Intellectuals"...which blew up in there faces because...well...they werent!....and now we are getting a media blitz of a handsome...well-spoken....minority.
No experience...No depth...
Bottom Line:
They are playing on the gamble that the country would rather vote for an air-brushed version of a president...than be accused of being "intolerant".

I am still incredibly dissapointed that people who I personally know ..REFUSE to take the time and look up Obama's extreme voting record and lack of any personal legitimate credentials.

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-28-2008, 11:55 AM
Walk me through what McCain's accompishments are - at his advanced age he surely has some



Wow...sad to see posters making age jokes and deflecting questions...instead of giving us FACTS about Obama's legislative experience.

But unlike some..I will be happy to answer the above question.

McCains accompishments:

1) Legislation
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=IssuesLegislation.Legislation

2) Agriculture
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=9a9181ea-b7c5-4e6a-845f-5824c7b23939

3) Budget, Taxes, and the Economy
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=1172f761-a830-4020-ae1b-7ec3db088fc9

4) Crime, Justice, and Judiciary
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=15a904d0-1277-40f2-843d-904f077cb0fb

5) Defense and National Security
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=1bd7f3a7-a52b-4ad0-a338-646c6a780d65

6) Education
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=eb39163a-67bf-481f-9adf-9187d55fd3af

7) Energy and Environment
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=bc036142-6f29-470a-9be9-37d306822ccf

8) Foreign Affairs
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=73379446-ed00-4a32-8ef1-9f1e12737746

9) Healthcare
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=766fba58-c762-4e68-bf3d-99163108bb35

10) Homeland Security and Immigration
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=766fba58-c762-4e68-bf3d-99163108bb35

11) Pork Barrel Spending (reported as senator with least amount of pork spending by independent watch group)
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=d1a878d9-f16c-4570-b402-9d1bc3fe6ab9

12) Technology and Telecommunications
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=6f4c5955-818b-4157-bc80-3b4bef26f7ab

13) Transportation
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=b3a8e8b2-187f-4776-ae38-fc0ad8a1d59e

14) Veterans Affairs
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=d4aef26f-e058-897e-4b4a-5fd1082aeef5

HometownGal
07-28-2008, 12:12 PM
Wow...sad to see posters making age jokes and deflecting questions...instead of giving us FACTS about Obama's legislative experience.

But unlike some..I will be happy to answer the above question.

McCains accompishments:

1) Legislation
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=IssuesLegislation.Legislation

2) Agriculture
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=9a9181ea-b7c5-4e6a-845f-5824c7b23939

3) Budget, Taxes, and the Economy
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=1172f761-a830-4020-ae1b-7ec3db088fc9

4) Crime, Justice, and Judiciary
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=15a904d0-1277-40f2-843d-904f077cb0fb

5) Defense and National Security
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=1bd7f3a7-a52b-4ad0-a338-646c6a780d65

6) Education
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=eb39163a-67bf-481f-9adf-9187d55fd3af

7) Energy and Environment
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=bc036142-6f29-470a-9be9-37d306822ccf

8) Foreign Affairs
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=73379446-ed00-4a32-8ef1-9f1e12737746

9) Healthcare
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=766fba58-c762-4e68-bf3d-99163108bb35

10) Homeland Security and Immigration
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=766fba58-c762-4e68-bf3d-99163108bb35

11) Pork Barrel Spending (reported as senator with least amount of pork spending by independent watch group)
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=d1a878d9-f16c-4570-b402-9d1bc3fe6ab9

12) Technology and Telecommunications
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=6f4c5955-818b-4157-bc80-3b4bef26f7ab

13) Transportation
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=b3a8e8b2-187f-4776-ae38-fc0ad8a1d59e

14) Veterans Affairs
http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=d4aef26f-e058-897e-4b4a-5fd1082aeef5

Seems to me that Senator McCain has been quite active over the years he has been a member of the Senate. Unlike . . . well, never mind. :chuckle:

I'm still waiting to see a list of Obama's accomplishments. :scratchchin:

Atlanta Dan
07-28-2008, 12:48 PM
Seems to me that Senator McCain has been quite active over the years he has been a member of the Senate. Unlike . . . well, never mind. :chuckle:

I'm still waiting to see a list of Obama's accomplishments. :scratchchin:

So we go to his web site and post the links? - not exactly "straight talk"

Please tell me the hallmark legislation that McCain has guided through Congress in his quarter century of being there

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-28-2008, 02:13 PM
So we go to his web site and post the links? - not exactly "straight talk"

Please tell me the hallmark legislation that McCain has guided through Congress in his quarter century of being there

No answer is good enough about McCain....but refuses to answer guestions about Obama...:banging: Delfection...thy name is Dan,
If I didnt know anybetter I would think he was a Lawyer.


Unlike some in regards to Obama...I accept the offer to show legistlation...

1) Lieberman-McCain Legislation ...legislation that proposed creating a market for companies that emit greenhouse gases to compete to clean up our air...modeled after the successful acid rain trading program of the 1990 Clean Air Act

2) The SAVE LIVES ACT...Major legislation introduced by Sen. John McCain that would significantly improve emergency communications for first responders through provisions that authorize funding for enhanced interoperable communication equipment and training for emergency responders. The Bill would open up certain frequencies to first responders only.

3) The McCain-Feingold-Cochran Campaign Reform Bill...say what you want.....but this was an historic attempt to stop soft money..place restrictions on "Phony Issue Ads" run by Corporations and Unions...and strengthen current laws to prohibit foreign nationals from making any contributions...

4) Schumer-McCain Legislation....Legislation that closed loopholes that delay introduction of affordable generic drugs.


Need I go on?....

Preacher
07-28-2008, 03:43 PM
No answer is good enough about McCain....but refuses to answer guestions about Obama...:banging: Delfection...thy name is Dan,
If I didnt know anybetter I would think he was a Lawyer.


Unlike some in regards to Obama...I accept the offer to show legistlation...

1) Lieberman-McCain Legislation ...legislation that proposed creating a market for companies that emit greenhouse gases to compete to clean up our air...modeled after the successful acid rain trading program of the 1990 Clean Air Act

2) The SAVE LIVES ACT...Major legislation introduced by Sen. John McCain that would significantly improve emergency communications for first responders through provisions that authorize funding for enhanced interoperable communication equipment and training for emergency responders. The Bill would open up certain frequencies to first responders only.

3) The McCain-Feingold-Cochran Campaign Reform Bill...say what you want.....but this was an historic attempt to stop soft money..place restrictions on "Phony Issue Ads" run by Corporations and Unions...and strengthen current laws to prohibit foreign nationals from making any contributions...

4) Schumer-McCain Legislation....Legislation that closed loopholes that delay introduction of affordable generic drugs.


Need I go on?....

You probably should, because after all...

He's not a democrat, he is McCain.



Of the two, I have decided... I think, to vote for the lessor of the two evils, which is McCain.


I don't trust Nobama... in that sleazy, Old Chicago political machine type of distrust.


(waiting for the normal shot at GOP politics now).

HometownGal
07-28-2008, 03:46 PM
No answer is good enough about McCain....but refuses to answer guestions about Obama...:banging: Delfection...thy name is Dan,
If I didnt know anybetter I would think he was a Lawyer.


Unlike some in regards to Obama...I accept the offer to show legistlation...

1) Lieberman-McCain Legislation ...legislation that proposed creating a market for companies that emit greenhouse gases to compete to clean up our air...modeled after the successful acid rain trading program of the 1990 Clean Air Act

2) The SAVE LIVES ACT...Major legislation introduced by Sen. John McCain that would significantly improve emergency communications for first responders through provisions that authorize funding for enhanced interoperable communication equipment and training for emergency responders. The Bill would open up certain frequencies to first responders only.

3) The McCain-Feingold-Cochran Campaign Reform Bill...say what you want.....but this was an historic attempt to stop soft money..place restrictions on "Phony Issue Ads" run by Corporations and Unions...and strengthen current laws to prohibit foreign nationals from making any contributions...

4) Schumer-McCain Legislation....Legislation that closed loopholes that delay introduction of affordable generic drugs.


Need I go on?....

:thumbsup::applaudit:

Psssst - Dan - these links are NOT from Senator McCain's website. :wink02:

And hours later, I'm STILL waiting for a response to my question re: Obama's accomplishments.

revefsreleets
07-28-2008, 04:27 PM
I'm voting for McCain, and I've made no bones about. I've supported him since before the last presidential election.

But I'll say this...if we elect Obama I will take one thing away from it: I'll be proud that my Country made enough progress to elect a black man with a name that sounds very Islamic.

And then I will HOPE and PRAY like Hell that he doesn't become a tax and spend liberal who tips this Country into outright socialism.

Atlanta Dan
07-28-2008, 04:38 PM
:thumbsup::applaudit:

Psssst - Dan - these links are NOT from Senator McCain's website. :wink02:

And hours later, I'm STILL waiting for a response to my question re: Obama's accomplishments.

Ask me in 25 years; maybe by then he will have co-sponsored a generic drug bill or a campaign finance bill that violates the First Amendment (if you want to cite "accomplishments" FYI McCain gave up on the "proposed" McCain-Lieberman cap & trade bill well before it died in committee and opposed its successor, Lieberman-Warner).

If the GOP wanted on run this campaign on legislative accomplishments you know as well as I do McCain would not be the man; if that is all you can come up with after a quarter-century in Congress you are reaching

Would a master legislator with a firm grasp of the issues get lost like this? (from yesterday on ABC This Week as McCain attempts to walk us through the economic rationality of the "gas tax holiday"

STEPHANOPOULOS: Not a single economist in the country said it’d work.

MCCAIN: Yes. And there’s no economist in the country that knows very well the low-income American who drives the furthest, in the oldest automobile, that sometimes can’t even afford to go to work.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But they all say that . . . the oil companies, the gas companies are going to absorb … any reduction.

MCCAIN: … they say that. But one, it didn’t happen before, and two, we wouldn’t let it happen. We wouldn’t let it — Americans wouldn’t let them absorb that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: How would you prevent that?

MCCAIN: We would make them shamed into it. We, of course, know how to — American public opinion. And we would penalize them, if necessary. But they wouldn’t. They would pass it on.

So that's how you get things done in Congress - you shame companies into doing what you want because we all know that's what drives economic behavior by companies

If that is the kind of experience we need to elect I will take a pass HTG

Atlanta Dan
07-28-2008, 04:41 PM
I'm voting for McCain, and I've made no bones about. I've supported him since before the last presidential election.
.

I gave McCain money in 2000 and cannot get off his mailing list:sofunny:

Unfortunately IMO what he stood for then he no longer stands for and he now is in his early 70s (if that is ageist so be it - elderly adults will be the first to admit you are slipping mentally and physically by McCain's age - if age is not a factor, ask yourself how many Fortune 500 companies would hire a new CEO at age 72)

Preacher
07-28-2008, 05:24 PM
I gave McCain money in 2000 and cannot get off his mailing list:sofunny:

Unfortunately IMO what he stood for then he no longer stands for and he now is in his early 70s (if that is ageist so be it - elderly adults will be the first to admit you are slipping mentally and physically by McCain's age - if age is not a factor, ask yourself how many Fortune 500 companies would hire a new CEO at age 72)

They don't want to hire a 72 year old CEO because they want a guy that is going to be around for a while... not make changes and leave.

8 years is the limit of anyone.

Different ball game in my thought.

Funny thing though, if it was Senator Kennedy... those same liberals who are quietly pushing the age issue would be screaming about "republican bigotry" on age.

I really am sick of the hypocrisy.

xfl2001fan
07-28-2008, 05:49 PM
I gave McCain money in 2000 and cannot get off his mailing list:sofunny:

Unfortunately IMO what he stood for then he no longer stands for and he now is in his early 70s (if that is ageist so be it - elderly adults will be the first to admit you are slipping mentally and physically by McCain's age - if age is not a factor, ask yourself how many Fortune 500 companies would hire a new CEO at age 72)

So basically what you're saying is you're not going to publish anything Obama has accomplished other than getting the democratic nod over former the First Witch?

Basically, you've become an Obama-Troll.

Anybody else see it differently?

Atlanta Dan
07-28-2008, 05:53 PM
They don't want to hire a 72 year old CEO because they want a guy that is going to be around for a while... not make changes and leave.

8 years is the limit of anyone.

Different ball game in my thought.

Funny thing though, if it was Senator Kennedy... those same liberals who are quietly pushing the age issue would be screaming about "republican bigotry" on age.

I really am sick of the hypocrisy.

No hypocrisy Preach - I voted for the Gipper but IMO after that experience the country dodged a bullet in his second term as his mental decline set in - add that to health issues with other older Presidents (FDR and Ike) and regarding age to be a legitimate concern is not hypocrisy - and not hiring 72 year old CEOs is not a matter of wanting a guy to be around for awhile (e.g. - most major law firms have mandatory retirement by 65 policies even though senior partners do not engage in a lot of physical labor other than kicking associates around) - at that age you are slipping mentally and physically

If McCain supporters want to pound on his "experience" then let's either look at the downside of having so many years of service or go all the way and draft Robert Byrd for President

xfl2001fan
07-28-2008, 05:56 PM
No hypocrisy Preach - I voted for the Gipper but IMO after that experience the country dodged a bullet in his second term as his mental decline set in - add that to health issues with other older Presidents (FDR and Ike) and regarding age to be a legitimate concern is not hypocrisy - and not hiring 72 year old CEOs is not a matter of wanting a guy to be around for awhile (e.g. - most major law firms have mandatory retirement by 65 policies even though senior partners do not engage in a lot of physical labor other than kicking associates around) - at that age you are slipping mentally and physically

If McCain supporters want to pound on his "experience" then let's either look at the downside of having so many years of service or go all the way and draft Robert Byrd for President

:blah::blah::blah:

And still he skirts the question. Dan, are you a politician? Now you're bringing in other politicians. Of course, Byrd has quite a long list of legislation as well that he's done.

Atlanta Dan
07-28-2008, 06:07 PM
So basically what you're saying is you're not going to publish anything Obama has accomplished other than getting the democratic nod over former the First Witch?

Basically, you've become an Obama-Troll.

Anybody else see it differently?

I will take trash talk from some folks but not you - other posters have gone after you and I have not (yet)

As far as being an Obama troll, you are correct i will vote for just about anyone over the GOP candidate given what the Bush Adminsitrtion has produced over the last 8 years - McCain has trolled for Bush's support and to get it runs the risk of not getting the support of those of us who regard the Administration to have been a disaster

My point is that if you define the qualifications in terms of legislative accomplishments then McCain's supporters are not surprisingly going to point to a longer legislative record (albeit one that is fairly thin for a quarter-century in Congress).

However I regard "experience" to be one factor and to some extent a red herring with regard to the election - in terms of break with current Administration policies and moving away from a "my way or the highway" approach to dealing with Congress, the judiciary, and other nations, I think Obama is more likely to do so than McCain will. That is what driving my support.

If you want to review Obama's positions go to his website - they are better writers there than I am

As far as whether or not that meets your standards, for your next question why don't you ask me if I give a damn?

Preacher
07-28-2008, 06:08 PM
No hypocrisy Preach - I voted for the Gipper but IMO after that experience the country dodged a bullet in his second term as his mental decline set in - add that to health issues with other older Presidents (FDR and Ike) and regarding age to be a legitimate concern is not hypocrisy - and not hiring 72 year old CEOs is not a matter of wanting a guy to be around for awhile (e.g. - most major law firms have mandatory retirement by 65 policies even though senior partners do not engage in a lot of physical labor other than kicking associates around) - at that age you are slipping mentally and physically

If McCain supporters want to pound on his "experience" then let's either look at the downside of having so many years of service or go all the way and draft Robert Byrd for President


I find it ironic that Robert (What's this sheet doing over my head) Byrd is the one you go to (not because I associate you with the Klan, but the juxtapostion of Obama and Byrd and how both of them have racist elements in their history.. Byrd much more so).

Atlanta Dan
07-28-2008, 06:17 PM
I find it ironic that Robert (What's this sheet doing over my head) Byrd is the one you go to (not because I associate you with the Klan, but the juxtapostion of Obama and Byrd and how both of them have racist elements in their history.. Byrd much more so).

When was Obama in the Klan?:chuckle:

millwalldavey
07-28-2008, 06:19 PM
QUOTE=revefsreleets;416883]And then I will HOPE and PRAY like Hell that he doesn't become a tax and spend liberal who tips this Country into outright socialism.[/QUOTE]

I though I covered the fact that Socialism had nothing to do with "tax and spend" or big governmenr period. Socialism is when the workers themselves control the government...

Atlanta Dan
07-28-2008, 06:22 PM
QUOTE=revefsreleets;416883]And then I will HOPE and PRAY like Hell that he doesn't become a tax and spend liberal who tips this Country into outright socialism.

I though I covered the fact that Socialism had nothing to do with "tax and spend" or big governmenr period. Socialism is when the workers themselves control the government...

Apparently not everyone read your post

Asked whether he believes that Obama is a socialist, McCain answered, "I don’t know. All I know is his voting record, and that’s what people usually judge their elected representatives by."

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/07/mccain_obama_ha.html

tony hipchest
07-28-2008, 06:24 PM
Well...

If you read the actual prayer that was published....


There is no way you can tell me that he HADN'T anticipated it being read.

I wonder who it was that really found it?
of course he didnt anticipate it being read. are you saying his simple prayer was a falsified plant? why do you think this? is it because he is a democrat? is he a fake Christian uncapable of a genuine prayer?

do you think his "real" prayer (had he not snticipated this one being stolen) woulda resembled the one i put up in post #1 as a tongue in cheek joke to prove a point?

wouldnt this be like me going to a poor church, putting $100 bill in the offering tray and know without a doubt that it will be stolen before it reaches the ushers? id like to have more faith than that.

sure it may be stolen, but theres no way you can tell me i SHOULD anticipate it being stolen.

how would conservative Christians act if some leftist, evil, paparazzi, media type did this to one of their candidates?

i just think its funny that since everyone doubts his religious commitment it strips away the right to privacy afforded anyone else.

good pub or bad, nothing is gained by publishing a prayer, other than selling fishwrap.

fwiw, i always wondered how devout clinton was when he was president, but it never influenced whether i thought he was capable of being Commander in Chief. same with reagan.

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-28-2008, 06:24 PM
If you want to review Obama's positions go to his website - they are better writers there than I am



Strange.....

Why is it that the same person who routinely searches the internet for scraps of ammo on behalf of bashing McCain...suddenly feels that there are "others" more qualified to speak on behalf of Obama?

Gotta call :bs: on that one.

Just another Dem unable to support the shallowness of their own candidate...

xfl2001fan
07-28-2008, 06:28 PM
I will take trash talk from some folks but not you - other posters have gone after you and I have not (yet)

As far as being an Obama troll, you are correct i will vote for just about anyone over the GOP candidate given what the Bush Adminsitrtion has produced over the last 8 years - McCain has trolled for Bush's support and to get it runs the risk of not getting the support of those of us who regard the Administration to have been a disaster
Maybe you haven't noticed, I'm not like other posters. Then again, I didn't write what I wrote for you to just take it. It was intended to get a reaction.

So all GOP Candidates are the same? Who wouldn't want to be seen on the winning side? Politics is a game. Bush was winning, be seen with Bush, and you're associated with a winner. You wouldn't expect McCain to suddenly start backing Hillary would you? His goal is to get the votes necessary for office. Bush (despite his many issues) stayed in office for 8 consecutive years. So there has to be some things he's done right. Why not try and appeal to the very same crowd (while actually passing legislation) that got someone into the office 2 straight terms?


My point is that if you define the qualifications in terms of legislative accomplishments then McCain's supporters are not surprisingly going to point to a longer legislative record (albeit one that is fairly thin for a quarter-century in Congress). Thicker than Obama's.

However I regard "experience" to be one factor and to some extent a red herring with regard to the election - in terms of break with current Administration policies and moving away from a "my way or the highway" approach to dealing with Congress, the judiciary, and other nations, I think Obama is more likely to do so than McCain will. That is what driving my support.
And how can you possibly backup the claim that Obama is more likely to do that than McCain will? Are you suggesting the "I won't really do much but smile and talk circles" is a better alternative? Personally, I find inaction a bigger problem than action. There are times when you get it wrong with action, but Obama has accomplished nothing.

If you want to review Obama's positions go to his website - they are better writers there than I am

As far as whether or not that meets your standards, for your next question why don't you ask me if I give a damn?

That last question was more for other posters than for you. I also didn't mention anything about meeting my standards. But that's fine. I didn't figure you'd like my take on things. Generally, when I do decide to jump into the realm of politics, I draw a hard line, which means people's toes get stepped on. This time it's your toes. I'm sure you'll lose as much sleep over this as I will.

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-28-2008, 06:33 PM
I though I covered the fact that Socialism had nothing to do with "tax and spend" or big governmenr period. Socialism is when the workers themselves control the government...

Actually socialism is defined as :Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Preacher
07-28-2008, 07:10 PM
of course he didnt anticipate it being read. are you saying his simple prayer was a falsified plant? why do you think this? is it because he is a democrat? is he a fake Christian uncapable of a genuine prayer?

do you think his "real" prayer (had he not snticipated this one being stolen) woulda resembled the one i put up in post #1 as a tongue in cheek joke to prove a point?

wouldnt this be like me going to a poor church, putting $100 bill in the offering tray and know without a doubt that it will be stolen before it reaches the ushers? id like to have more faith than that.

sure it may be stolen, but theres no way you can tell me i SHOULD anticipate it being stolen.

how would conservative Christians act if some leftist, evil, paparazzi, media type did this to one of their candidates?


i just think its funny that since everyone doubts his religious commitment it strips away the right to privacy afforded anyone else.

good pub or bad, nothing is gained by publishing a prayer, other than selling fishwrap.

fwiw, i always wondered how devout clinton was when he was president, but it never influenced whether i thought he was capable of being Commander in Chief. same with reagan.


Tony...

1. I for one, actually DON'T discount the integrity of his conversion. I do disagree VERY STRONGLY with the liberation theology that is a part of the discipleship of his church. But I don't discount his beleif.

2. It seems that what was written was very formulaic and stylized which means forethought. I have no problem with that. However, when the entire trip is a political maneuver, it brings up other questions. Furthermore, when his tradition (which is the same as mine) eschews liturgy for free-form worship, a formulaic prayer seems out of place.

Do I doubt his sincerity? Not at all. Do I believe that he was careful with every word of that prayer because he thought it may make it to the press? Yes.

How did it get to the newspaper?

Are you telling me I should beleive that a student and his other student friends at a JEWISH SEMINARY voluntarily violated the sanctity of the western wall of THEIR TEMPLE to take a note...

then say it was "sort of" a prank?

Something just doesn't pass the smell test.

________________________________________________

My guess...

One of Obama's handlers (ALL politicians have handlers... or self implode like Dean or Alan Keyes) vetted the prayer --just in case--

with politics being what they are... and with this entire trip a POLITICAL trip... and with Obama's campaign attempting to drive home his "religious ties" (in quotes because religion and Christianity in reality have NOTHING to do with each other, and Obama claims christianity, not a religion), this just seems like too good a break.

_________________________________________________

Now, if this was George Bush that did that, and his read something similar, are you telling me that everyone would be reacting the same way?

Absolutely not. Many would take it as a sign that he is a religious right lunatic... others would pass around ideas about it being a plant by Carl Rove (others being people with access to cameras and newspapers), others would go someplace else with it....

and virtually NO ONE would be complaining about... his privacy.

revefsreleets
07-28-2008, 07:28 PM
Yeah, I'm a little thrown off by this one, especially the "I thought I covered this" part...

I KNOW what socialism is, and I don't get my definitions from internet message boards. And I certainly didn't say that taxing and spending equates to socialism...they are both quite separate EVILS.

so·cial·ism Audio Help /ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

We are in a very shaking, tenuous and precarious time. Crisis almost always precedes great sweeping changes. There is a very real danger with a very liberal President and a Democratic congress that we could, in the very strictest sense, tip over into a MARXIST socialist state. Here's another, more clear definition, which is what we could be facing:

social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members.

Read that as: The government starts taking control of things that would (and in the US, SHOULD be privately controlled/owned/operated).

Atlanta Dan
07-28-2008, 08:16 PM
Generally, when I do decide to jump into the realm of politics, I draw a hard line, which means people's toes get stepped on. This time it's your toes. I'm sure you'll lose as much sleep over this as I will.

Well - don't say you didn't ask for this:grin:

Leaving aside the fact that your posts have drawn some self-defined hard lines on the football threads that have resulted in some fairly stern comebacks, it is fair to say neither of us is going to lose much sleep over responses to our posts - we could not and never will be able to pick each other out of a photo array - unlike arguments in a workplace, neighborhood, or frat house, there is no common bond that we cannot break immediately without the adverse consequence of at least having to see each other again

As far as defending my arguments, my guess is I have been through a few more elections than you have, which I note only to provide the perspective that very few elections of which I am aware have turned on the "experience" of the candidates and most have turned on the reaction to the incumbent party. I was a kid in 1960, but if you ever read "The Making Of the President 1960" (the book that showed you could make money off writing a book about politics) it is clear that Nixon left Kennedy in the dust in terms of experience but that JFK had the theme of "let's get this country moving again" combined with being more telegenic (sound familiar?). As JFK said, "life is unfair."

In 1968, I was old enough to be following politics and watch the country pretty much come apart = when Nixon won that year it was because the nation was pissed off at LBJ having run the country into a ditch, not because of Nixon's experience or "secret plan" to end the war.

When I first voted for President in 1980 (it was too big a hassle to get an absentee ballot in college or law school) my vote for Reagan certainly was not based on 2 terms of Governor of California constituting more experience than Carter's one term as President (that would be like comparing 2 years of arithmetic to a year of calculus) - it was because I thought the incumbent party made a mess of things

After voting for The Gipper again my vote for Bush actually was based on experience and a belief he would carry on Reagan's policies - fat lot of good that did me; you probably are too young to recall it but those of us who remember "read my lips no new taxes" know no politician can be completely trusted to keep his word and that the world's greatest resume is no guarantee of success in any job.

In 1992 I voted for Clinton because of my view Bush I had not met expectations, not because of Clinton being more experienced.

in 2000 I voted for W because of a disdain for the Clinton years; in terms of an experience gap, the difference between Gore and Bush was at least as great as that between McCain and Obama, a fact that I have noted before but which those who voted for W have not regarded as worthy of a response. As for 2004, I voted for Kerry solely because I thought Bush & Cheney needed to go, not because of Kerry's experience; IMO if we had a do-over on that election a majority today would have voted for the less experienced Kerry.

I go through this only because Internet boards lend themselves more to who should start at left tackle than a detailed discussion of more complex issues such as politics, which are better suited to face to face discussions. That is for reasons including the fact that posters toss crap in a post that I assume that anyone who made it past ninth grade would not say in a face to face conversation (a phenomenon HTG and others may have seen with attorneys making arguments in briefs they would never pull during depositions or in court).

That is a long way of saying if you think I am an "Obama troll" so be it. But anyone who claims the defining characteristic of who should be elected president is primarily which candidate is the more "experienced" either presumably has not reflected on their own past votes or is following the strategy of making lemonade if all you have are lemons.

And as far as what you think your candidate will do once they are in office, you don't know - regardless of what anyone thinks of him. does anyone claim thy thought W would run up a $400 billion deficit, expand the government domestically through Medicare Part D and No Child Left Behind, and expand the national security state to an extent not seen since the 1940's? - I doubt it.

So I admit I am basing my vote for Obama on my disdain for the incumbent Presidential party (which I did in 1980 and 2000) and belief Obama is better suited for what is ahead. If anyone really is basing their vote for McCain on experience, good for you. Just consider why that might not have been such a crucial factor when you had other reasons (such as. for example, not liking Carter or Clinton-Gore) to go with other factors in making your decision in prior elections while conceding the possibility that no matter who you vote for your are simply making your best guess as to whom will be a better President and that there might be comprehensible reasons why your choice is not the only choice anyone with an IQ above Joe Greene's jersey number might make.

Whew- glad to get that post behind me. Back to worrying about Casey dropping weight.

HometownGal
07-28-2008, 09:29 PM
Ask me in 25 years; maybe by then he will have co-sponsored a generic drug bill or a campaign finance bill that violates the First Amendment (if you want to cite "accomplishments" FYI McCain gave up on the "proposed" McCain-Lieberman cap & trade bill well before it died in committee and opposed its successor, Lieberman-Warner).

If the GOP wanted on run this campaign on legislative accomplishments you know as well as I do McCain would not be the man; if that is all you can come up with after a quarter-century in Congress you are reaching

Would a master legislator with a firm grasp of the issues get lost like this? (from yesterday on ABC This Week as McCain attempts to walk us through the economic rationality of the "gas tax holiday"

STEPHANOPOULOS: Not a single economist in the country said it’d work.

MCCAIN: Yes. And there’s no economist in the country that knows very well the low-income American who drives the furthest, in the oldest automobile, that sometimes can’t even afford to go to work.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But they all say that . . . the oil companies, the gas companies are going to absorb … any reduction.

MCCAIN: … they say that. But one, it didn’t happen before, and two, we wouldn’t let it happen. We wouldn’t let it — Americans wouldn’t let them absorb that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: How would you prevent that?

MCCAIN: We would make them shamed into it. We, of course, know how to — American public opinion. And we would penalize them, if necessary. But they wouldn’t. They would pass it on.

So that's how you get things done in Congress - you shame companies into doing what you want because we all know that's what drives economic behavior by companies

If that is the kind of experience we need to elect I will take a pass HTG

Thank you for your perspective on McCain, Dan, but still the question remains - - -

What are Barrack Obama's accomplishments while serving in the United States Senate? :banging: I don't need to go to Obama's website to read his platform (again) - I know where he stands on the issues and I am in disagreement with the majority of those stances.

As evidenced by the video posted in a separate thread in this forum, it is pretty damned sad when a candidate's own campaign manager can't answer the same question that both LLT and I have asked you repeatedly in this thread. To be quite frank here, Dan - I'd rather have a President with at least some accomplishments during his tenure in government office than a President with none at all. Obama is a bird flapping his wings in the wind, imho, and wouldn't know how to lead a booger out of a dead man's nose much less lead an entire nation.

tony hipchest
07-28-2008, 10:30 PM
I have been wondering this myself, LLT, since Obama first announced his candidacy and his bandwagon started filling up. I've done a lot of reading on the guy and like you, I don't understand what the love affair with him is all about. :doh: What really has he done with his 3 years of Senate experience to even qualify as a candidate for the highest office in the land?

I love your description - cardboard cutout. :toofunny::toofunny:
HTG, with all due respect (and i know this point has already been quickly shot down in this thread)


BUT... the exact same things were said about a young and inexperienced mike tomlin when he took over the greatest professional sports head coaching job in the land.

i know... apples and oranges, but the comparison still applies. its obvious that people see the same thing in obama that the rooneys saw in tomlin. does that guarantee that obama will be as good of a president as i think tomlin will be a great head coach?

of course not. but it definitely explains the love affair people have with a dynamic, convincing, personality, that seems ready to lead, regardless of age or experience.

tomlin was refered as a "cardboard cutout" of a HC who stood by and let lebeau, arians, faneca, ward, and all the other "veterans" run the show.

he was called a figurehead who only got his job thanks to the rooney rule. some of the men he was hired to lead almost take him as a joke (exemplified by c. hamptons recent comments).

with all that being said, my vote is still undecided. im as big of a hawk as there is when it comes to engaging and winning a war; however, i am a big fan of "the morning after" pill.

i am torn with the inheretance tax.

with that being said, i take pride as an American and a Christian, and would feel disgusted with any of OUR fellow peoples prayer being ripped out of a sacred site.

personally i dont believe a prayer needs to be written on paper, or ones sins need to be confesed to some man in a phone booth. i do have respect for the custom and the gesture though, which is the point of this thread. (left or right, Christian, Jew, or Muslim, being pushed aside).

I get a sense of "blame the victim" in this thread (and i sort of sarcastically paraphrase)....

"he had to have expected it {wearing such a short mini-skirt out on the street.}"

"hes not qualified to be president {she was just a hoe turning tricks anyways.}"

Preacher
07-28-2008, 11:02 PM
I get a sense of "blame the victim" in this thread (and i sort of sarcastically paraphrase)....

"he had to have expected it {wearing such a short mini-skirt out on the street.}"

"hes not qualified to be president {she was just a hoe turning tricks anyways.}"

Tony...

Comparing this to a rape victim.. in ANY way, is a little too far IMO.

Are you saying that we need to completely and totally ignore the fact that he was put in office by the Daly political machine, that his first opponent was knocked out by an opening of the records of his divorce... which has Daly machine feel all over it... that now we have to COMPLETELY ignore EVERYTHING in the past and accept at face value what is being told to us?

AND... at the SAME TIME... accept from the press and the left that "Bush Lied--People died" or that McCain is McBush?

AND.... through ALL OF THAT.... WHILE he is on a POLITICAL trip, he goes to one of the BIGGEST religious sites in ALL the world, in a city that THREE of the 7 or so MAJOR religions consider a centerpiece... and inserts a prayer into a wall... and then have EVERY REASON to assume that... in the political swirl his campaign is purposefully creating to PROVE he has an ability to deal with international issues.. To have such a prayer written...

and NO ONE is supposed to question IN THE LEAST???

The timing just gets me. Just enough time for the Jesse Jackson flap to settle down... Now this... which should keep HIS name in the news until HIS convention...

Hey, if we have people on this board that questions and spins EVERY SINGLE move president Bush makes... shouldn't we at least ask QUESTIONS about something that DOESN'T MAKE SENSE?

tony hipchest
07-28-2008, 11:41 PM
Tony...

Comparing this to a rape victim.. in ANY way, is a little too far IMO.

Are you saying that we need to completely and totally ignore the fact that he was put in office by the Daly political machine, that his first opponent was knocked out by an opening of the records of his divorce... which has Daly machine feel all over it... that now we have to COMPLETELY ignore EVERYTHING in the past and accept at face value what is being told to us?

AND... at the SAME TIME... accept from the press and the left that "Bush Lied--People died" or that McCain is McBush?

AND.... through ALL OF THAT.... WHILE he is on a POLITICAL trip, he goes to one of the BIGGEST religious sites in ALL the world, in a city that THREE of the 7 or so MAJOR religions consider a centerpiece... and inserts a prayer into a wall... and then have EVERY REASON to assume that... in the political swirl his campaign is purposefully creating to PROVE he has an ability to deal with international issues.. To have such a prayer written...

and NO ONE is supposed to question IN THE LEAST???

The timing just gets me. Just enough time for the Jesse Jackson flap to settle down... Now this... which should keep HIS name in the news until HIS convention...

Hey, if we have people on this board that questions and spins EVERY SINGLE move president Bush makes... shouldn't we at least ask QUESTIONS about something that DOESN'T MAKE SENSE?

i dont think ive EVER compared mccain to bush (although i feel he is MUCH more capable as a leader of this nation).

obama stuck a note in a wall. he didnt go to war against a country or declare others as "the axis of evil".

by no means am i suggesting obama has been raped. but "blaming the victim" is "blaming the victim".

ive admitted to being openly sarcastic to prove a point. i think that point is still being proven.

"ignore the fact..."??????

how do i ignore THIS fact-

i cant see how people dont see that a holy, sacred, ritual, being stolen out of a wall, and publisized for monetary and political purposes, demeaning ones personal relationship (fake or pure- thats not for me to judge), with God, doenst make one a "victim".

appearantly it is alright for a doctor to disclose medical records, a lawyer to disclose confidential infromation, a Catholic priest to allow others to witness one's confessions, as long as that person is a democrat who has no purpose being the president of the United States of America.

can anyone tell me of any other high profile, public figure, who has had their prayer ripped out o f the wailing wall?

this most certainly wouldnt happen to madonna or brittany spears after their professed dedication to Karbala (or whatever the hell its called).

Preacher
07-29-2008, 12:41 AM
i dont think ive EVER compared mccain to bush (although i feel he is MUCH more capable as a leader of this nation).

obama stuck a note in a wall. he didnt go to war against a country or declare others as "the axis of evil".

by no means am i suggesting obama has been raped. but "blaming the victim" is "blaming the victim".

ive admitted to being openly sarcastic to prove a point. i think that point is still being proven.

"ignore the fact..."??????

how do i ignore THIS fact-

i cant see how people dont see that a holy, sacred, ritual, being stolen out of a wall, and publisized for monetary and political purposes, demeaning ones personal relationship (fake or pure- thats not for me to judge), with God, doenst make one a "victim".

appearantly it is alright for a doctor to disclose medical records, a lawyer to disclose confidential infromation, a Catholic priest to allow others to witness one's confessions, as long as that person is a democrat who has no purpose being the president of the United States of America.

can anyone tell me of any other high profile, public figure, who has had their prayer ripped out o f the wailing wall?

this most certainly wouldnt happen to madonna or brittany spears after their professed dedication to Karbala (or whatever the hell its called).

Or a Republican running against the Daly Machine and Obama.

My point ISNT that it is ok... I find it detestable.

And when the answer to how this detestable thing happened comes out, I find holes in it.

That's all.

tony hipchest
07-29-2008, 01:17 AM
Or a Republican running against the Daly Machine and Obama.

My point ISNT that it is ok... I find it detestable.

And when the answer to how this detestable thing happened comes out, I find holes in it.

That's all.

find holes in what?

"Lord — Protect my family and me. Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will,"

thats basically a prayer said by atleast a billion people every day. does obama really need a speechwriter to construct that beautiful literary prose as a simple PR stunt?

my 5 year old daughter and i essentially pray for the same thing every night (although she adds in the part about snow to play in, and to keep her safe from coyotes, wolves, and bears).

augustashark
07-29-2008, 03:51 AM
Not going to mention any names, but seems like we have a new LITP. Though he has been here for a long time, it just seems like he has went over the deep end. Very funny and quite entertaining to say the least.

TroysBadDawg
07-29-2008, 05:08 AM
HTG, with all due respect (and i know this point has already been quickly shot down in this thread)


BUT... the exact same things were said about a young and inexperienced mike tomlin when he took over the greatest professional sports head coaching job in the land.



Tomlin had a set team in place when he went to your town, the incoming President replaces most people in position of authority, ie cabinet, Dept heads and sub heads (all political appointments) Did Tomlin do that? Your comparison is all smoke, and feel good thoughts. :doh: :blah: :blah: Hmmm sounds like a candidate for President.

fansince'76
07-29-2008, 05:45 AM
Not going to mention any names, but seems like we have a new LITP. Though he has been here for a long time, it just seems like he has went over the deep end. Very funny and quite entertaining to say the least.

I dunno - I don't see any Brits in this thread who think they're bigger authorities on America and its politics than people who were born, raised, and have ostensibly lived most, if not all, of their lives here. Comparing anyone in this thread to that know-it-all wanker is a pretty big insult, IMO.

HometownGal
07-29-2008, 06:49 AM
of course not. but it definitely explains the love affair people have with a dynamic, convincing, personality, that seems ready to lead, regardless of age or experience.

with that being said, i take pride as an American and a Christian, and would feel disgusted with any of OUR fellow peoples prayer being ripped out of a sacred site.



With all due respect to you, Sir Hipcheese, I am appalled that Obama's private thoughts between himself and God were taken from the Wailing Wall and published. I didn't make that point clear in any of my posts, which I apologize for.

As far as Obama having a "dynamic, convincing personality", I don't see Obama in that light. As I said in a recent thread - I'm not buying what he is selling and I say that for a lot of reasons which I won't drag out into this thread. What I will say is that I don't trust him as far as I could toss him and I smell a rat - that is the best way I can describe my feelings about the man. I don't believe I've ever been so opposed to a candidate since I started voting many moons ago.

personally i dont believe a prayer needs to be written on paper, or ones sins need to be confesed to some man in a phone booth. i do have respect for the custom and the gesture though, which is the point of this thread. (left or right, Christian, Jew, or Muslim, being pushed aside).

Something we agree on. :thumbsup:

Tony - I do appreciate your comparisons, but from where I stand, it isn't comparing apples and oranges. More like comparing filet mignon with chopped liver. :wink02::chuckle:

HometownGal
07-29-2008, 07:21 AM
Not going to mention any names, but seems like we have a new LITP. Though he has been here for a long time, it just seems like he has went over the deep end. Very funny and quite entertaining to say the least.

I think you are reallllllllly stretching that one, augusta. Not even close.

Politics brings out the worst in people, unfortunately, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Atlanta Dan
07-29-2008, 07:37 AM
Not going to mention any names, but seems like we have a new LITP. Though he has been here for a long time, it just seems like he has went over the deep end. Very funny and quite entertaining to say the least.

Just for the record - Tony or me?

Just for the hell of it - how do you tie any post in this thread to LITP like behavior?

xfl2001fan
07-29-2008, 08:07 AM
Well - don't say you didn't ask for this:grin:

Whew- glad to get that post behind me. Back to worrying about Casey dropping weight.

I'm going to cut some of the fat out of this, but that's just to shorten the length of the thread.

I understand your reasoning. I always prefer an actual explanation. I do go overboard (sometimes). I wish I could blame it on youth, but my mother is terrible about it still, so it's a personal battle I'll struggle with all my life. That being said, when I'm wrong, I'll admit it (though it does sometimes take someone else pointing it out.)

So my "Obama-Troll" was overboard (and wrong.) I do, humbly, apologize, but I really wanted to know. I generally stay away from posting in political threads. Most of the people who do post are far more interested in the topic than I am, so they have done far more research than I have. (I get bored easy and reading up on backstabbing-smear groups just isn't exciting to me.)

In this particular election, you and I will have to agree to disagree. In the primaries, I did vote for Obama (but that was more to keep Hillary out of office.) I've worked with guys that were stationed at the White House when Clinton was in office. It'll take a very shitty group of politicians to select from before I'd vote for her. Right now, we're stuck with mostly crappy (on both sides.)

As for what people do in office, I know that it's rarely what platform they build their campaign around. I have yet to see a candidate that was actually worth voting for on their merits alone. Instead, I've been left with choosing the lesser of two evils year in and year out at every level of politics.

At least with McCain, you have a history you can look at. Based on his history, I can live with his decisions.

I know I couldn't live with H. Clinton as President. I'd likely drop out of the Armed Forces and root for the Browns from a Canadian home.

With Obama, it's really an unknown. There's nothing to go on. There's no precedent to follow along with.

If he get's elected in, I'll know that it's a triumph for what I've spent the last 11 years fighting for. Freedom, racial equality, and the American way of life. If he helps turn this country around, even better. However, til then, my vote is going to go to McCain.

tony hipchest
07-29-2008, 09:22 AM
Tomlin had a set team in place when he went to your town, the incoming President replaces most people in position of authority, ie cabinet, Dept heads and sub heads (all political appointments) Did Tomlin do that? .

and that negates my point how? let me repeat myself-

BUT... the exact same things were said about a young and inexperienced mike tomlin when he took over the greatest professional sports head coaching job in the land.


perhaps the "smoke" of my comparison comes from the obama flames and fire running deep in this thread. maybe i'd rather have feel good thoughts than be consumed with all the negativity.

its really not a big deal to me but the mans prayer was ripped out of a holy site. i get the feeling some people would cheer if he were tarred and feathered while on his trip.

i dont care whether you like obama or not, and im not trying to convince anyone of anything. but your personal feelings of the man dont change my point.

its quite simple. a question was asked why people have such a love affair with a
candidate who has no experience whatsoever. regardless of what you think, the fact is MANY people feel he is dynamic and will make a great leader. to illustrate this point i gave the example of the rooneys hiring tomlin based on intelligence, personality, and potential. if you cant see the similarity of tomlin and him being relative nobodies and quickly climbing up the ranks, thats too bad.

i get that people dont like him. hell, theres people who think hes nothing more than a worthless [refrains from dropping the n-bomb]. does that mean everybody has to feel that way?

so, question was asked. question was answered. case closed.

it is what it is.... people like obama and many will vote for him. understanding why people like him or dislike him wont change that fact.

i tell you 1 thing, if mccain is elected i certainly wont spend the next 4 years wondering why everybody likes an old coot :flap: who is washed up and boarderline senile :rolleyes: (i say that just to hammer home a point)

millwalldavey
07-29-2008, 02:25 PM
Actually socialism is defined as :Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

A more suitable definition:

Socialism refers to any of various economic and political concepts of state or collective (i.e. public) ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods and services, some of which have been developed into more or less highly articulated theories and/or praxis. [1] In a Marxist or labor-movement definition of the term, socialism is a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done with the goal of creating a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community. [2] This control may be exercised on behalf of the state, through a market, or through popular collectives such as workers' councils and cooperatives. As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state, cooperative, or worker ownership of the means of production, goals which have been attributed to, and claimed by, a number of political parties and governments.

Nothing about "tax and spend" in there.

Preacher
07-29-2008, 04:49 PM
Let me just boil my arguments down to this one point...

If you believe the worst about the other politician, believe it about your politician as well.


This feels like a political stunt... is it? Who knows. But I ask the question. Would Rove do something like this???

There is as much possibility of Rove doing it as Obama's guy doing it.

They are all politicians... I don't put it past any of them.

Fair enough?

Atlanta Dan
07-29-2008, 05:30 PM
Let me just boil my arguments down to this one point...

If you believe the worst about the other politician, believe it about your politician as well.


Yeah - there's a lot of that going around with the McCain and Bush supporters on this board Preacher :sofunny:

Before you lecture Obama supporters I respectfully submit you consider removing the log from your own eye when it comes to Bush:chuckle:

Preacher
07-29-2008, 06:31 PM
Yeah - there's a lot of that going around with the McCain and Bush supporters on this board Preacher :sofunny:

Before you lecture Obama supporters I respectfully submit you consider removing the log from your own eye when it comes to Bush:chuckle:

Over the line.

Have a nice day.

revefsreleets
07-29-2008, 06:59 PM
A more suitable definition:

Socialism refers to any of various economic and political concepts of state or collective (i.e. public) ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods and services, some of which have been developed into more or less highly articulated theories and/or praxis. [1] In a Marxist or labor-movement definition of the term, socialism is a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done with the goal of creating a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community. [2] This control may be exercised on behalf of the state, through a market, or through popular collectives such as workers' councils and cooperatives. As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state, cooperative, or worker ownership of the means of production, goals which have been attributed to, and claimed by, a number of political parties and governments.

Nothing about "tax and spend" in there.

Dude, reading comprehension 101.

Tax and spend is ONE thing.

Socialism is a SEPARATE thing.

Obama is capable of both. They are both evil. Nobody suggested they were linked in anything other than being in the same sentence together...my sentence that I wrote. And I know I didn't link the two.

Blitzburgh_Fever
07-29-2008, 07:45 PM
People have asked why to vote for Barack Obama over John McCain. Let me preface this by saying I am not like many (most) people when it comes to politics: I do not discount other people's opinions and treat my candidates like a major sports figure.

This may be asking for a ban, but that's all these posts about politics are on this forum: person A discounts person B's opinion, person B calls person C (who supports person A) an idiot using elaborate words, person C goes after person D on a personal level after person D attacks person A, et cetera. It's really not only these forums, but reading in the background for three weeks, that's all this seems to be on these forums. It's awful how polarizing politics has become in the last 10-15 years, but there you have it.

My best-friend is a staunch Republican who hates all Democrats. I'm a Moderate (if such a thing can exist anymore), and when I agree with a Republican candidate (such as Indiana governor Mitch Daniels) I'm a sensible, intelligent person who understands the issues. When I vote for Congressman Baron Hill, I'm a moron who can't understand basic civil liberties. It's just stupid, and it's asking for a flame war. This sounds crazy hippy of me, but why the hell can't we respect someone's opinion anymore? Whatever, it doesn't matter apparently. Fox News and CNN and MSNBC shout hours have completely changed people's attitudes, and that's how people like it. Ad hominem arguments are easier to produce than civility. I'm stupid, so my opinion doesn't count really does carry much more weight than acknowledging that I may be an individual of average intelligence that holds Candidate A's opinions closer to heart due to individual circumstances in my life. Both sides do this, it's just unbearably annoying, and pundits wonder why no one wants to get involved in politics anymore. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Blitzburgh_Fever
07-29-2008, 07:47 PM
Anyways, I plan on voting for Barack Obama for the following reasons:

1.) Abortion

Obama agrees with current stances and wants to leave it up to state's to draft laws governing late-term abortions.

McCain's stance is that abortion should be illegal, even to the point of overturning Roe v. Wade, with concessions given to rape victims and incestual abortions.

I just happen to agree slightly more with Mr. Obama. Obama as well supports teaching children abstinence and contraception in school (my gf's sister has three kids, mostly because her long-term bf tricked her into believing latex could poison her or him...but that's another matter), I personally haven't seen anything that McCain has done support contreception being taught in schools.

2.) Gay Rights

Both candidates believe that states should handle gay marriage. Both agree gays should have equal rights. The only major (read: actually minor) difference is Senator Obama believes hate crimes should include sexual orientation. Not that big of a difference. Both candidates voted no on a constitutional ban of gay marriage, which is what matters to me. (never understood that...you're banning something that's not legal)

I personally believe gays should be able to marry, or marriage should no longer be recognized by the government (mostly for tax issues) and gov't should only recognize civil unions. Marriage no longer holds any significance in the eyes of the government (i.e. marriage isn't the same as a civil union and doesn't create a civil union)*

*I disagree with that, and don't want it to happen, and mostly (only) use it as an example to illustrate how silly it is that gays don't have the right to marriage. Fine if you don't want them to have a religious ceremony, but marriage is recognized by the government and anyone should have the right to it (on a governmental level, not a religious level, let's leave that to the religions to decide)

3.) Affirmative Action

Honestly, both candidates have fairly similar views, and I empathize with both of them. Senator Obama believes Affirmative Action should apply to colleges and government, and apply to poor, white students as well. Senator McCain believes it should apply to "specific programs" (realistically, probably the same, colleges for sure and governments). Both sound good to me.

4.) Crime

McCain supports death penalty and limiting death penalty appeals (it's ridiculous, as soon as a death penalty is handed out, an appeal is already filed automatically, at cost to the state)

Obama supports the death penalty in certain cases, but in general battles legislation advocating and broadening the death penalty.

I can go on, but you get the point. I, unlike others, don't buy into the "voting for the better of two evils." I try to remain optimistic that McCain or Obama could do well, for different reasons, and I really do believe that. I don't think Bush is inherently evil, but I think his priorities got mixed up at some point and several of his decisions lately have come into question, but he had a lot on his plate. Still, not a very good 8 years for me, personally.

Most of this is from www.ontheissues.org and various articles I've saved. Both parties are capable of doing egregious things to win the election. I stay away from FoxNews and Huffingtonpost as much as I can; both are obviously intended to get the blood boiling. I'll limit such activities to viewing Browns and Seahawk forums.

Atlanta Dan
07-29-2008, 08:30 PM
Over the line.

Have a nice day.

Over the line? - compared exactly to what with regard to the responses on this board to any defense of Obama or challenge to Bush?:toofunny:

You are the throwing out this chum in the water:

This feels like a political stunt... is it? Who knows...

They are all politicians... I don't put it past any of them.

Fair enough?

In answer to your question, no - not "fair enough"

If my reference to scripture offended you, I will use a more earth bound metaphor

“If you want to call someone a thieving pig f***er, you’d better be prepared to produce the pig.” — Hunter S. Thompson

With regard to the Wailing Wall prayer "feeling" like a political stunt, where's the pig?

Preacher
07-29-2008, 09:06 PM
Over the line? - compared exactly to what with regard to the responses on this board to any defense of Obama or challenge to Bush?:toofunny:

You are the throwing out this chum in the water:

This feels like a political stunt... is it? Who knows...

They are all politicians... I don't put it past any of them.

Fair enough?

In answer to your question, no - not "fair enough"

If my reference to scripture offended you, I will use a more earth bound metaphor

“If you want to call someone a thieving pig f***er, you’d better be prepared to produce the pig.” — Hunter S. Thompson

With regard to the Wailing Wall prayer "feeling" like a political stunt, where's the pig?


Your calling me a hypocrite is where...

Thank you.

Or do you not know that the verse you quoted starts out... HYPOCRITE, first take the log out of your own eye, then you can. . .

Fact is. I did not PONTIFICATE that he did do it. I posted that it made no sense TO ME.

tony hipchest
07-29-2008, 09:07 PM
Let me just boil my arguments down to this one point...

If you believe the worst about the other politician, believe it about your politician as well.


This feels like a political stunt... is it? Who knows. But I ask the question. Would Rove do something like this???

There is as much possibility of Rove doing it as Obama's guy doing it.

They are all politicians... I don't put it past any of them.

Fair enough?preacher, i can only assume this post is directed to dan and myself (just like augusta's LITP slam). if that is the case ive never said anything bad about mccain, which is besides the point because this thread isnt even about him.

look how quickly obama and his sincerity were attacked in this thread.

the only ones who i see "believing the worst" in this thread are those who think anything obama does is for PR or a publicity stunt (as if that is a crime or something to frown upon).

who cares if this is a political stunt? every day a politician wakes up is a political stunt. politicians are public servants so PR (public relations) is just a normal part of the job.

if a conservative Christian places a prayer in the wall it is considered sincere, and if a liberal democrat does the same it is a stunt. the double standard is what baffles me.

so who do you thing the stunt panders to? the non denominational prayer doesnt even mention Christ. was it for Christans or Jews.?

or was it a simple case of "when in Rome..."?

if a candidate goes to baltimore theyre likely to mug in front of a camera and eat a crabcake, right? and a sourdough roll in frisco. plenty of politicians have gone to primanti's in pgh. if a candidate goes to alaska in the winter they might wear a parka. if i was a politician and went to israel i damn sure would take a dip in the jordan river regardless of who saw or said what. however i wouldnt appeciate a newspaper running a story that i pissed in it.

oh, and i must claim ignorance. i dont even know who Rove is, but i assume it is mccains campaign manager? saying he is just as likely to do the same insinuates that you have obamas people already tried and convicted.

again, what is to gain for obamas people to leak a prayer to the media when there were already cameras there to capture him placing his writen note into the wall?

lots of credibility to lose with nothing to gain. i dont see why youre so skeptical.

Preacher
07-29-2008, 09:24 PM
preacher, i can only assume this post is directed to dan and myself (just like augusta's LITP slam). if that is the case ive never said anything bad about mccain, which is besides the point because this thread isnt even about him.

look how quickly obama and his sincerity were attacked in this thread.

the only ones who i see "believing the worst" in this thread are those who think anything obama does is for PR or a publicity stunt (as if that is a crime or something to frown upon).

who cares if this is a political stunt? every day a politician wakes up is a political stunt. politicians are public servants so PR (public relations) is just a normal part of the job.

if a conservative Christian places a prayer in the wall it is considered sincere, and if a liberal democrat does the same it is a stunt. the double standard is what baffles me.

so who do you thing the stunt panders to? the non denominational prayer doesnt even mention Christ. was it for Christans or Jews.?

or was it a simple case of "when in Rome..."?

if a candidate goes to baltimore theyre likely to mug in front of a camera and eat a crabcake, right? and a sourdough roll in frisco. plenty of politicians have gone to primanti's in pgh. if a candidate goes to alaska in the winter they might wear a parka. if i was a politician and went to israel i damn sure would take a dip in the jordan river regardless of who saw or said what. however i wouldnt appeciate a newspaper running a story that i pissed in it.

oh, and i must claim ignorance. i dont even know who Rove is, but i assume it is mccains campaign manager? saying he is just as likely to do the same insinuates that you have obamas people already tried and convicted.

again, what is to gain for obamas people to leak a prayer to the media when there were already cameras there to capture him placing his writen note into the wall?

lots of credibility to lose with nothing to gain. i dont see why youre so skeptical.


Let me start here.

At this point in the American political scene, if Obama, McCain, or even the Gipper himself came back from the dead and said the sky is blue.. I would look for a political stunt.

Both parties have made DESTRUCTIVE use of faith to further agendas.

In the specific case here, Obama comes from a church that subscribes to a theology that is completely integrated with politics. So I am pre-disposed to believing that faith and politics will combine.

I will save the liberation theology lecture for later. But my skepticism extends to both parties. Trust me.

BTW... Rove was the CM for Bush who kept driving faith issues in elections and then dropped all faith issues while he was in office.


And no, the "you" in my post wasn't a specific YOU tony, or YOU Dan.. it was a general you.

dang English language. That is why I stayed generic about politicians, not about McCain and Obama.

HometownGal
07-29-2008, 09:41 PM
if that is the case ive never said anything bad about mccain, which is besides the point because this thread isnt even about him.

look how quickly obama and his sincerity were attacked in this thread.



I think the entire purpose of discussion in this thread was lost somewhere and the topic has now become a mangled mess. I am just as much to blame as anyone else, as I didn't address the topic itself in my initial posts, which I have sincerely apologized for. I believe we are all so passionate about our candidates of choice that we are a little too hasty in jumping to conclusions and misinterpretations.

As I posted earlier today, I find this incident reprehensible. What is said (in this case written) between an individual and God should remain private and not turned into a three-ring circus as this incident has sadly become. I haven't made my dislike and mistrust of Obama a secret around here, but I have never been one to advocate an invasion of anyone's privacy no matter how I feel about them personally.

tony hipchest
07-29-2008, 10:48 PM
Let me start here.

At this point in the American political scene, if Obama, McCain, or even the Gipper himself came back from the dead and said the sky is blue.. I would look for a political stunt.

Both parties have made DESTRUCTIVE use of faith to further agendas.

In the specific case here, Obama comes from a church that subscribes to a theology that is completely integrated with politics. So I am pre-disposed to believing that faith and politics will combine.

I will save the liberation theology lecture for later. But my skepticism extends to both parties. Trust me.

BTW... Rove was the CM for Bush who kept driving faith issues in elections and then dropped all faith issues while he was in office.


And no, the "you" in my post wasn't a specific YOU tony, or YOU Dan.. it was a general you.

dang English language. That is why I stayed generic about politicians, not about McCain and Obama.fair enough. i understand the general skepticism and youve always pointed out that yours isnt reserved for just one side of the aisle.

theres just so many other ways to pull off a publicity stunt, i feel suggesting his letter was a plant is being overly skeptical and grasping at straws (in this particular instance).

wouldnt it be quite a risk for one of his people to get caught in the act, with very little to gain?

what would rush limbaughs reaction have been if obama had visited the wall and not offered a prayer at all? in this instance obama was "damned if you do, damned if you dont".

i have nothing against mccain and wont seek the nearest bridge if he is elected. i had nothing against bob dole. i just so happened to like bill better.

im one who likes to thinks no matter who is elected, they wanna do what is best for us americans as opposed to poking us in the butt with no vaseline.

to see so many people on both sides of the spectrum already grabbing their tubs of lubricant is a bit disturbing and intriguing of how polarized of a society we have become.

Preacher
07-29-2008, 10:56 PM
fair enough. i understand the general skepticism and youve always pointed out that yours isnt reserved for just one side of the aisle.

theres just so many other ways to pull off a publicity stunt, i feel suggesting his letter was a plant is being overly skeptical and grasping at straws (in this particular instance).

wouldnt it be quite a risk for one of his people to get caught in the act, with very little to gain?

what would rush limbaughs reaction have been if obama had visited the wall and not offered a prayer at all? in this instance obama was "damned if you do, damned if you dont".

i have nothing against mccain and wont seek the nearest bridge if he is elected. i had nothing against bob dole. i just so happened to like bill better.

im one who likes to thinks no matter who is elected, they wanna do what is best for us americans as opposed to poking us in the butt with no vaseline.

to see so many people on both sides of the spectrum already grabbing their tubs of lubricant is a bit disturbing and intriguing of how polarized of a society we have become.

I fully admit that I may be overly skeptical here. I also admit that had he not offered a prayer... that something probably would have been said. Of course... other questions can be asked... but I will restrain myself!

Don't you long for the day when the worst thing said in a political campaign was, "There you go again" and "I am not going to make your youth and inexperience a question in this campaign."

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-30-2008, 07:38 AM
[QUOTE=Atlanta Dan;417290]Over the line? - compared exactly to what with regard to the responses on this board to any defense of Obama or challenge to Bush?:toofunny:QUOTE]

This from a person who has 78 Pro-Obama..Anti-McCain posts in July alone.

Pot meet Kettle.

Preacher
07-31-2008, 02:24 AM
preacher, i can only assume this post is directed to dan and myself (just like augusta's LITP slam). .

Funny thing..

I actually thought he was talking about me :hunch:

Why don't I give you this one... and I take the next one? :wink02:

TroysBadDawg
08-01-2008, 04:05 AM
After reading this post from the beginning I had meeting last night with a local Rabbi. (Yes they talk to us that are of Lebanese decent.)
I asked him straight up about the Wailing wall prayer. He is from Israel and was schooled there.

He told me that if a Rabbinical ( I think that is the term he used, with my hearing and his accent it may be wrong.) He said that the student would be out on his ears and that the Wall is guarded. Both because or terrorists and to protect the prayer papers. They are removed by a team of rabbi's who then burn them with some kinda ceremony or prayer. I got lost with his explanation and accent. I think he got tired of repeating himself.

So with his explanation and his guess, it was a political ploy and a phony prayer paper that was published. He said it, I didn't.

I just think it is strange that he has been against Israel, prior to his run now all of a sudden he goes to the Wailing Wall, but refuses to visit injured GI's in Germany with out press cavalcade following him.

tony hipchest
08-01-2008, 11:40 AM
He said that the student would be out on his ears and that the Wall is guarded. Both because or terrorists and to protect the prayer papers. So with his explanation and his guess, it was a political ploy and a phony prayer paper that was published. He said it, I didn't.

.

you have absolutely, most certainly, got to be kidding me. no offense to you or the rabbi you spoke with, but am i to accept that note to be a "phony and a political ploy" just because a rabbi said the student would be out on his ears?

im i expected to believe that no youngster would ever pull a prank or a stunt (especially if they thought they could make a few bucks)?

i guess a student would never lay down in front a tank in tienneman square because they might get ran over.

of course teenage students at a catholic school would never sneak into the girls dorm because it is a sin. :rolleyes:

inner city kids would never deal drugs cause they might get shot or arrested by the police. :rolleyes:

you think "guards" are gonna prevent a note from being taken? how do you know the student wasnt one of the guards? and to think a guard would never do that is about as naive as thinking one of americas biodefense anthrax researchers would never mail the powder to congress and NBC (killing 5 people).

even if the kid wasnt a guard, im sure youve heard of slight of hand. its as simple as sticking a note into a crack and pulling another out as you withdraw your hand.


Tony...

Are you telling me I should beleive that a student and his other student friends at a JEWISH SEMINARY voluntarily violated the sanctity of the western wall of THEIR TEMPLE to take a note...

then say it was "sort of" a prank?

Something just doesn't pass the smell test.

it is what it is, whether one person believes it or not.

Yeshiva student returns Obama's Kotel note

The yeshiva student who pried Barack Obama's prayer note from the Western Wall has apologized.

Obama in Israel Identified only by the first initial of his name, Aleph, and with his face obscured, the student went on Channel 2 television Sunday to confess that he took the presidential contender's note last week and passed it to the press.

The resulting coverage of Obama's private, handwritten musings on hope and sin added to the mystique of his campaign visit to Israel but drew international criticism, including from leading rabbis who said Jewish morality had been compromised by the publication.

...

"I'm sorry. It was a kind of prank," Aleph said, his hands shaking as he fingered the tightly wadded-up sheet of King David Hotel letterhead. "I hope he wasn't hurt. We all believe he will take the presidency."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1215331119403&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

you all can believe what you want. ive made my case.

fwiw- my posts in this thread are more about supporting common sense than a particular candidate (obama). i would make the EXACT same arguments for john mccain if he were the one violated and the majority were calling his prayer a plant, a phony, a fake, or a publicity stunt.

Preacher
08-01-2008, 06:14 PM
fwiw- my posts in this thread are more about supporting common sense than a particular candidate (obama). i would make the EXACT same arguments for john mccain if he were the one violated and the majority were calling his prayer a plant, a phony, a fake, or a publicity stunt.

Funny thing...

I would have made the same posts as well... :chuckle:


I admire your ability see past the flotsam right now... hopefully I will be there in the future. I used to enjoy these seasons.

TroysBadDawg
08-01-2008, 07:48 PM
you have absolutely, most certainly, got to be kidding me. no offense to you or the rabbi you spoke with, but am i to accept that note to be a "phony and a political ploy" just because a rabbi said the student would be out on his ears?


Look Tony, I Don't like either candidate running, but I sure as heck will not vote for person with Socialist ideas and goals for my country.

I simply typed (reported) what the Rabbi said, You appear to believe other reports concerning your candidate but not what someone else says if it is negative.

To each his own.

And no I was not kidding he said it not I. Like I said in the beginning of the post. read it all and comprehend it all. I never said I believed it or not ... it is just what he said.

"So with his explanation and his guess, it was a political ploy and a phony prayer paper that was published. He said it, I didn't."

I did say
I just think it is strange that he has been against Israel, prior to his run now all of a sudden he goes to the Wailing Wall, but refuses to visit injured GI's in Germany with out press cavalcade following him.

And again that is an opinion. You know we are all allowed to have them, not just the liberals.

HometownGal
08-01-2008, 08:18 PM
Geez Louise - are we still talking about this? :doh:

Us common folk will never know for certain if this was a political ploy, a prank or the solemn truth. We can only form opinions based on what the media reported (not always a reliable source as we all well know). Though I am a proud McCain supporter, I don't believe for a minute that Obama would actually go to those lengths to get the "sympathy" support and take the slightest chance of it backfiring.

My infamous saying applies here . . .

DIE THREAD DIE! :wink02::chuckle:

xfl2001fan
08-01-2008, 08:23 PM
Geez Louise - are we still talking about this? :doh:

What'd you expect? Not supposed to talk about religion or politics...and we're combining both in this thread.

tony hipchest
08-01-2008, 09:26 PM
Look Tony, I Don't like either candidate running, but I sure as heck will not vote for person with Socialist ideas and goals for my country.

I simply typed (reported) what the Rabbi said, You appear to believe other reports concerning your candidate but not what someone else says if it is negative.


i have no problem with negative reports if they are true. what i DONT believe is bs propoganda crap that is obviously completely and utterly false. it is quite simple, which is why i made the "common sense" disclaimer.

To each his own.

And no I was not kidding he said it not I. Like I said in the beginning of the post. read it all and comprehend it all. I never said I believed it or not ... which is why i asked you what you believe.... it is just what he said.

i comprehended your post just fine. i was easilly able to differentiate between your opinion and that of what you heard from a random rabbi. the little question marks at the end of the sentence mean i was asking you a question, not accusing you of having an opinion.

and i will ask you again. do you really think a guard woulda prevented that note being taken? if so, do you know for sure the kid wasnt a volunteer guard himself?

do you really think ALL students act perfectly for fear of getting thrown out "on their ear"?

i dont. i know better.


And again that is an opinion. You know we are all allowed to have them, not just the liberals. thats right. we all can have an opinion, and i hope yours are influenced by FACTS and "common sense".

TBD, i get that you dont "like either candidate running". i dont dislike one more than the other. im pretty much on record here as being undecided and having an open mind until i atleast see how they do in the debates.

however i have a half a mind just to vote for obama for the sheer sake of hoping he wins and pisses off all the haters.

ive done something that whimsical and stupid in the past.

i voted for bush in 04. :jawdrop: (really i gave my mother my vote as a gift because she felt so strongly about his Christian values and remaining the president in a time of war).

and i take my vote very seriously and hold it as something of value. it was a gesture that made her happy and appreciative. i was more than glad to do it and put my personal feelings aside. i doubt i would do anything like that for anyone other than my momma.

and it wasnt a throw away vote. new mexico was the most hotly contested state in the union with its 5 electoral votes and population of 2 million people being separated by less than 200 votes.

i may just convince my 40 employees to go out and vote for obama too. :tt:

:chuckle:

fansince'76
08-01-2008, 09:30 PM
i have a half a mind just to vote for obama for the sheer sake of hoping he wins and pisses off all the haters.

ive done something that whimsical and stupid in the past.

Same here - like rooting for the Cowboys against the Patriots last year. :jawdrop: :yuck: :chuckle:

Preacher
08-01-2008, 10:13 PM
however i have a half a mind just to vote for obama for the sheer sake of hoping he wins and pisses off all the haters.



If you really want to get to all the haters... start a write-in campaign for Jeb Bush and Hillary as the VEEP.

IT would drive most of the country over the wall!!

:rofl:

tony hipchest
08-01-2008, 11:40 PM
If you really want to get to all the haters... start a write-in campaign for Jeb Bush and Hillary as the VEEP.

IT would drive most of the country over the wall!!

:rofl:i'll give a vote away, but i most definitely appreciate the privilage too much to waste it. if that were the case, i would write in bill richardson, whom i feel was the most qualified candidate.

with that being said, if obama selects him as his veep, he definitely gets my vote.

if mccain selects him as his veep HE gets my vote.

see, unlike others who would probably vote for mccain even if he selected a "hillbilly heroin" addict like rush limbaugh for VP, i prefer to take a "wait and see" approach to such important matters before i put all my chips in.

lest we wind up with a useless prick like dick cheney.

thank God he never assumed the throne....

:smile:

BTW this thread was dead until some random unknown rabbi's opinion was cited as proof to debunk the entire premise of it (and here is the premise)-

Obama's Wailing Wall prayer stolen and published

Preacher
08-02-2008, 12:20 AM
BTW this thread was dead until some random unknown rabbi's opinion was cited as proof to debunk the entire premise of it (and here is the premise)-

Obama's Wailing Wall prayer stolen and published


But that is exactly what they would WANT someone to say! :rofl:

TroysBadDawg
08-02-2008, 04:35 AM
was [/I]dead until some random unknown rabbi's opinion was cited as proof to debunk the entire premise of it (and here is the premise)-

Obama's Wailing Wall prayer stolen and published

With you living in New Mexico I doubt that you would know him anyway.

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-02-2008, 03:15 PM
If you really want to get to all the haters... start a write-in campaign for Jeb Bush and Hillary as the VEEP.
IT would drive most of the country over the wall!!

:rofl:

Rush Limbaugh & Al Franken in 2012!!!!:tt03:

Preacher
08-02-2008, 05:03 PM
Rush Limbaugh & Al Franken in 2012!!!!:tt03:

You know...

I must say I would be tempted to vote for that ticket... because at least you know they won't sway from what they beleive just to gain more votes.