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revefsreleets
07-31-2008, 09:15 AM
6. SOS. True, the schedule the Browns face isn’t as tough as the one facing the Steelers, but they will definitely be facing better competition from week to week than last year.

5. Derek Anderson. I’ve typed enough about this guy already, but he’s a “one and done” career back-up who had his moment in the sun. He’s Kelly Holcomb all over again. He was exposed towards the end of the year, and was so out of his depth at the Pro Bowl as to be laughable. But this leads to another problem for the Browns, namely…

4. Brady Quinn. He’ll grab the starters job probably sooner rather then later, and I think he’ll be a fine NFL QB at some point, but he’s going to struggle at times in his first year, despite the good supporting cast and talented skill players, namely because the Browns will be playing from behind a lot due to…

3. A mediocre defense. Yes, they made improvements along the front, but that secondary has more holes than Swiss cheese. It’s like having a baseball team with great hitting and no pitching. Patching one of two holes on a boat only slows the flooding, but the boat is still gonna sink.

2. Not sneaking up on anybody this year. They play a tough schedule, a lot of big prime-time games, the media is hyping them, and teams are not going to take them lightly. They aren’t an automatic win for anybody (their owners, the Steelers, being the exception to that), so they will be in some dogfights this year, and will lose some games they probably should win.

1. Finally, the one thing no stat or fact or figure can overcome: this team is CURSED! It doesn’t matter what kid of product this team puts on the field, they are never going to win a big Championship game. They could be up by 40 points in the AFCCG and al Qaeda would blow up the stadium. There will always be “The Drive” or “The Fumble” or something…it’s just never going to happen for them.

Dino 6 Rings
07-31-2008, 09:35 AM
You can add the Aging runningback that has been accused of not running yard the last few years he was in Baltimore.

revefsreleets
07-31-2008, 09:47 AM
Actually, Lewis showed up to camp at his College weight. I think he'll have a good year if he doesn't get injured. If he DOES go dow, the Browns are effed...they have no depth at RB at all...

xfl2001fan
07-31-2008, 10:54 AM
You can add the Aging runningback that has been accused of not running yard the last few years he was in Baltimore.

I would rather look at how he ran for the Browns last year than how he ran for some other team 2+ years ago.

Let's face it, we've got a better offensive line than what he had to deal with his last two years in Baltimore.

We also have more (and better) pass catching skill players available to keep defenses honest and stretch the field.

He's also 2 months younger than LT, and roughly 1500 yards behind him in total yardage. Not too shabby.

He didn't play in 2001, so they've both had an equal number of playing years in the NFL.

I wouldn't completely discount Lewis just yet. If he stays healthy, we're in pretty damn good shape.

Dino 6 Rings
07-31-2008, 11:06 AM
If Lewis was in the AFC East or West playing against those non run defense teams, I'd give him a chance. But having to play the Steeler twice and his old team twice a year, plus the NFC East this season, I don't see him having a fantastic season. But that's just me.

The Duke
07-31-2008, 11:17 AM
I wouldn't completely discount Lewis just yet. If he stays healthy, we're in pretty damn good shape.

and if he isn't? jerome harrison is a good backup, but I highly doubt he's a starter

Dino 6 Rings
07-31-2008, 01:09 PM
Browns need to worry about their first game. If they lose that and then have to play the Steelers, they could be in for a long season starting at 0-2.

revefsreleets
07-31-2008, 01:28 PM
I wouldn't mind if they beat the "girls"...it's a lessor of two evils kind of thing, and will make our beatdown of them in week 2 taste all the more bitter, especially since it will be on their turf, and you KNOW the fans will be all up in our mix if they are 1-0...

How many games has Ben lost in Ohio again?

steelreserve
07-31-2008, 01:46 PM
They could be up by 40 points in the AFCCG and al Qaeda would blow up the stadium.

Maybe, but in all honesty, if al Qaeda was going to blow up the stadium, I'd rather they not waste it on the Browns. Please, for everyone's sake, do it during the Colts-Patriots game so people would shut up about them.

Although I'm sure that for several months, all we'd still hear about would be how Tom Brady and Peyton Manning were the best QBs in the league at dying.

fansince'76
07-31-2008, 02:42 PM
Maybe, but in all honesty, if al Qaeda was going to blow up the stadium, I'd rather they not waste it on the Browns. Please, for everyone's sake, do it during the Colts-Patriots game so people would shut up about them.

Although I'm sure that for several months, all we'd still hear about would be how Tom Brady and Peyton Manning were the best QBs in the league at dying.

Are you kidding? I'm sure those two would "Batman up," singlehandedly foil the plot and bring the perps to justice! They're both really crimefighting superheroes when they aren't throwing TD passes by the bushel.

Black@Gold Forever32
07-31-2008, 03:17 PM
Very good reasons....Especially 4 and 5....Couldn't agree more on those points....I do think Anderson is a fraud also and had a career year.....I do think Quinn will replace him mid-season....Quinn will struggle while he learns the NFL game...

stlrtruck
07-31-2008, 03:27 PM
While I think Anderson played about his head, I really think he's going to be more competitive than people are giving him credit. The browns won't be able to sneak up on anyone this year but similar to Ben, Anderson can make something out of nothing.

Dino 6 Rings
07-31-2008, 03:40 PM
but similar to Ben, Anderson can make something out of nothing.

Until he does it, year in and year out, then I don't believe he is near the same class as our QB.

stlrtruck
07-31-2008, 04:13 PM
Until he does it, year in and year out, then I don't believe he is near the same class as our QB.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's in the same class. That's why I used the word similar. Anderson has a long way to go before I put him in the same class. I was just mentioning that he can make things happen.

Basically in order to be in Ben's class Anderson would have to take the clowns to and win the Super Bowl. And perform at the same level next year.

ShutDown24
07-31-2008, 05:03 PM
The only reason I need is #5. That only makes me confident enough that the Steelers have the division won already.

xfl2001fan
07-31-2008, 05:07 PM
The only reason I need is #5. That only makes me confident enough that the Steelers have the division won already.
So an injury to Ben doesn't derail your season fast? Assuming health is asking for your hopes to be dashed.

j-dawg
07-31-2008, 05:11 PM
:popcorn: I correct myself.. this thread is more entertaining then the other one...

I've read all the worse case scenerios, problems with the Browns threads thus far and there's one thing that CAN'T be said, the Browns wont be competitive.

Eighth ranked offense last year and the signs of a strong defense this year has certainly got me excited. Like it or not, the Browns have a good chance of making the post season.

As for the "curse" thing... if you're banking on that than bless you, 'cause that stigma bounced off the back stantion of the upright last year and lost.

As Chip Douglas once said... "LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!"

Blitzburgh_Fever
07-31-2008, 05:52 PM
So an injury to Ben doesn't derail your season fast? Assuming health is asking for your hopes to be dashed.

Nah, an injury to Ben where Batch has to come in and play for five games or so isn't the end of the world. It's happened before. We had a guy playing under center few seasons ago, Tommy Maddox. Had a pretty good year, then people got film on him. He turned out to be not very good. Same thing will likely happen with Derek Andersen. Quinn will be good, but he'll just need time (six games or so, probably) to get comfortable.

I'd be more concerned with Rogers work ethic, finding out whether or not Andersen has the prowess to stay good or not, seeing how Stallworth plays out (adequate #2, and Braylon Edwards is the real deal), and then hoping your running game stays up. One injury to any skill position on offense and your depth is gone. Thankfully, the "only" thing we have to worry about is the OL as far as injuries. With McBean coming up, hopefully our DL will step up.

xfl2001fan
07-31-2008, 06:47 PM
Nah, an injury to Ben where Batch has to come in and play for five games or so isn't the end of the world. It's happened before. We had a guy playing under center few seasons ago, Tommy Maddox. Had a pretty good year, then people got film on him. He turned out to be not very good. Same thing will likely happen with Derek Andersen. Quinn will be good, but he'll just need time (six games or so, probably) to get comfortable.

I'd be more concerned with Rogers work ethic, finding out whether or not Andersen has the prowess to stay good or not, seeing how Stallworth plays out (adequate #2, and Braylon Edwards is the real deal), and then hoping your running game stays up. One injury to any skill position on offense and your depth is gone. Thankfully, the "only" thing we have to worry about is the OL as far as injuries. With McBean coming up, hopefully our DL will step up.

I am concerned with Rogers work ethic, but the more I see him, the more I'm reminded of Randy Moss these last couple of years. Two years ago, people were saying he's washed up. Last year...not so much.

So, an injury to Ward doesn't hurt your depth at WR? You don't exactly have a lot of proven starting candidates either. Willie Parker goes down, you have an unproven rookie and who?

Maddox didn't show signs of improvement in the offseason. DA is much younger and is getting some hard core tutoring to help fine tune his game. He's learning how to check down (based on camp) though still has work to do. He also has a much stronger arm than Maddox had. That can help out tremendously with him working on his "decision making" skills. Still, he needs to prove he is more than a one year wonder.

Batch is an OK filler, but with the schedule you guys have, I don't know how effective he'll be. Especially when you consider you don't have a proven grind-it-out HB like Bettis was. Ben has dropped back to pass over 900 times these last couple of seasons. His first two, he was much closer to 600 drop backs. Batch could fill in much more admirably under those first two seasons than he would under the current program.

fansince'76
08-01-2008, 01:07 PM
I am concerned with Rogers work ethic, but the more I see him, the more I'm reminded of Randy Moss these last couple of years. Two years ago, people were saying he's washed up. Last year...not so much.

Were the Browns in the AFCCG last year and a prohibitive favorite of the "experts" to win it all this year? I never thought Moss was washed up. I've always felt that he's a frontrunning carpetbagger who quits on his team when they tank. Still do. I guarantee you if the Patriots were to start 1-5 (they won't), Moss would lose interest, begin dogging it on the field and begin pouting on the sideline like he did in Oakland and Minnesota.

SteelCityMan786
08-01-2008, 01:37 PM
6. SOS. True, the schedule the Browns face isn’t as tough as the one facing the Steelers, but they will definitely be facing better competition from week to week than last year.

5. Derek Anderson. I’ve typed enough about this guy already, but he’s a “one and done” career back-up who had his moment in the sun. He’s Kelly Holcomb all over again. He was exposed towards the end of the year, and was so out of his depth at the Pro Bowl as to be laughable. But this leads to another problem for the Browns, namely…

4. Brady Quinn. He’ll grab the starters job probably sooner rather then later, and I think he’ll be a fine NFL QB at some point, but he’s going to struggle at times in his first year, despite the good supporting cast and talented skill players, namely because the Browns will be playing from behind a lot due to…

3. A mediocre defense. Yes, they made improvements along the front, but that secondary has more holes than Swiss cheese. It’s like having a baseball team with great hitting and no pitching. Patching one of two holes on a boat only slows the flooding, but the boat is still gonna sink.

2. Not sneaking up on anybody this year. They play a tough schedule, a lot of big prime-time games, the media is hyping them, and teams are not going to take them lightly. They aren’t an automatic win for anybody (their owners, the Steelers, being the exception to that), so they will be in some dogfights this year, and will lose some games they probably should win.

1. Finally, the one thing no stat or fact or figure can overcome: this team is CURSED! It doesn’t matter what kid of product this team puts on the field, they are never going to win a big Championship game. They could be up by 40 points in the AFCCG and al Qaeda would blow up the stadium. There will always be “The Drive” or “The Fumble” or something…it’s just never going to happen for them.

Why not make it 7 and make that the fact that for 15 Straight games that the clowns have been on the other side of the scoreboard.

xfl2001fan
08-01-2008, 02:03 PM
Were the Browns in the AFCCG last year and a prohibitive favorite of the "experts" to win it all this year? I never thought Moss was washed up. I've always felt that he's a frontrunning carpetbagger who quits on his team when they tank. Still do. I guarantee you if the Patriots were to start 1-5 (they won't), Moss would lose interest, begin dogging it on the field and begin pouting on the sideline like he did in Oakland and Minnesota.

Your last line tells you the answer, you just seem hell-bent on ignoring it.

Moss played for teams that looked like the could contend, but didn't for teams that couldn't.

The Browns look like a team that could contend. Shaun is playing hard for us.

Then again, I should just start considering the source and realize you'll always take the worst take on anything I say.

BTW, Moss dogged it on many a play last season, it's just that it was overshadowed by his record breaking season. I too can't stand the guy and think he's a real waste of talent.

fansince'76
08-01-2008, 02:13 PM
Your last line tells you the answer, you just seem hell-bent on ignoring it.

Moss played for teams that looked like the could contend, but didn't for teams that couldn't.

The Browns look like a team that could contend. Shaun is playing hard for us.

Then again, I should just start considering the source and realize you'll always take the worst take on anything I say.

BTW, Moss dogged it on many a play last season, it's just that it was overshadowed by his record breaking season. I too can't stand the guy and think he's a real waste of talent.

Will he play hard for you after the season starts and the games are for keeps if things begin to go south, though? That's the question. He has a history of easing up off the gas when things are not going well, that's all, and that's a history I don't think you can ignore. And effort in TC is one thing, production during the season is another. For example, Mahan busted his ass for us last year in TC, regularly stoned Casey Hampton and then proceeded to get blown up all year. You're not going to know for sure what you have with Rogers until the real games start.

I'm not assuming the Browns are going to tank, though. My prior post had more to do with Randy Moss and the fact that I've always thought he was a frontrunner and still do and that his very precipitous dropoff in performance in Oakland was a result of his shitty attitude, not that he lost a step or was "washed up."

xfl2001fan
08-01-2008, 02:20 PM
Will he play hard for you after the season starts and the games are for keeps if things begin to go south, though? That's the question. He has a history of easing up off the gas when things are not going well, that's all, and that's a history I don't think you can ignore. And effort in TC is one thing, production during the season is another. For example, Mahan busted his ass for us last year in TC, regularly stoned Casey Hampton and then proceeded to get blown up all year. You're not going to know for sure what you have with Rogers until the real games start.

I'm not assuming the Browns are going to tank, though. My prior post had more to do with Randy Moss and the fact that I've always thought he was a frontrunner and still do and that his very precipitous dropoff in performance in Oakland was a result of his shitty attitude, not that he lost a step or was "washed up."

I think it's hard to ignore the fact that the Browns have the 5th toughest schedule in the league. The players are all aware that nothing will come easy this season. With (potentially) 5 prime time games, Shaun should be more than happy to play hard, as he'll be playing for a team that is on the cusp of turning around our (mis)fortunte since our return.

RoethlisBURGHer
08-01-2008, 02:35 PM
I think it's hard to ignore the fact that the Browns have the 5th toughest schedule in the league. The players are all aware that nothing will come easy this season. With (potentially) 5 prime time games, Shaun should be more than happy to play hard, as he'll be playing for a team that is on the cusp of turning around our (mis)fortunte since our return.

You guys start off against the Cowboys and the Steelers...if the Browns dig themselves an 0-2 hole we'll see how motivated Shaun Rogers is then.

revefsreleets
08-01-2008, 02:37 PM
Here's the thing the Steelers know about playing a lot of big-time primetime games that the Browns really can't know: The other team is in the spotlight, too, and brings their "A" game. 8-8 this year, tops. Quinn starter by week 8, probably much sooner.

And where is the annual major Browns TC injury? We all know it's coming...

xfl2001fan
08-01-2008, 02:39 PM
You guys start off against the Cowboys and the Steelers...if the Browns dig themselves an 0-2 hole we'll see how motivated Shaun Rogers is then.

Shaun would be very much aware of the fact that we start off against the (preseason) premier team in the NFC and the reigning AFCN champs. Maybe I didn't make this point clear enough in my last post. The players know the schedule.

I'm pretty sure he signed on with this team knowing that our schedule is going to be tough. He showed up to camp lighter than he played for Detroit last season and motivated. He has been practicing hard and staying late. Imagine that, a NT showing up in shape and motivated to play. Whoda thunkit?

xfl2001fan
08-01-2008, 02:48 PM
The other team is in the spotlight, too, and brings their "A" game.

That is such a stupid statement. Any team that doesn't bring it's A game every game deserves to have it's coaching staff completely overhauled.

In HS, if any of us increased our playing tempo (brought more to the table, whatever your cliche) in a game, the expectation was that you had to do that from then on. You don't just bring your "A" game for the big games, because other wise you end up losing to teams like the Jets.

Maybe I just had a tougher coaching staff in HS than the Steelers have now.

billybob
08-01-2008, 02:58 PM
6. SOS. True, the schedule the Browns face isn’t as tough as the one facing the Steelers, but they will definitely be facing better competition from week to week than last year.

5. Derek Anderson. I’ve typed enough about this guy already, but he’s a “one and done” career back-up who had his moment in the sun. He’s Kelly Holcomb all over again. He was exposed towards the end of the year, and was so out of his depth at the Pro Bowl as to be laughable. But this leads to another problem for the Browns, namely…

4. Brady Quinn. He’ll grab the starters job probably sooner rather then later, and I think he’ll be a fine NFL QB at some point, but he’s going to struggle at times in his first year, despite the good supporting cast and talented skill players, namely because the Browns will be playing from behind a lot due to…

3. A mediocre defense. Yes, they made improvements along the front, but that secondary has more holes than Swiss cheese. It’s like having a baseball team with great hitting and no pitching. Patching one of two holes on a boat only slows the flooding, but the boat is still gonna sink.

2. Not sneaking up on anybody this year. They play a tough schedule, a lot of big prime-time games, the media is hyping them, and teams are not going to take them lightly. They aren’t an automatic win for anybody (their owners, the Steelers, being the exception to that), so they will be in some dogfights this year, and will lose some games they probably should win.

1. Finally, the one thing no stat or fact or figure can overcome: this team is CURSED! It doesn’t matter what kid of product this team puts on the field, they are never going to win a big Championship game. They could be up by 40 points in the AFCCG and al Qaeda would blow up the stadium. There will always be “The Drive” or “The Fumble” or something…it’s just never going to happen for them.

Thankyou sir for placing the Browns in thier correct possition.The only way i would worry is if Jim Brown showed up in camp as a coach for Jamal(LOL)

fansince'76
08-01-2008, 03:00 PM
Shaun would be very much aware of the fact that we start off against the (preseason) premier team in the NFC and the reigning AFCN champs. Maybe I didn't make this point clear enough in my last post. The players know the schedule.

I'm pretty sure he signed on with this team knowing that our schedule is going to be tough. He showed up to camp lighter than he played for Detroit last season and motivated. He has been practicing hard and staying late. Imagine that, a NT showing up in shape and motivated to play. Whoda thunkit?

Fine, if they're so cognizant of "what it takes to make it" then why the collapse against the Bengals late last season which essentially cost them the division crown and the playoffs?

Dude, this is a Steelers board. If you're expecting respect for the Browns here, you're barking up the wrong tree.

billybob
08-01-2008, 03:04 PM
That is such a stupid statement. Any team that doesn't bring it's A game every game deserves to have it's coaching staff completely overhauled.

In HS, if any of us increased our playing tempo (brought more to the table, whatever your cliche) in a game, the expectation was that you had to do that from then on. You don't just bring your "A" game for the big games, because other wise you end up losing to teams like the Jets.

Maybe I just had a tougher coaching staff in HS than the Steelers have now.

This is not high school buddy,and this is not a Loser site,i mean excuse me,a Browns site.If ya want ta hang around the furnace,ya got ta expect the heat!!!!!
I trust the Browns to beat all the teams we need them to beat,nothing more,nothing less.

xfl2001fan
08-01-2008, 03:08 PM
This is not high school buddy,and this is not a Loser site,i mean excuse me,a Browns site.If ya want ta hang around the furnace,ya got ta expect the heat!!!!!
I trust the Browns to beat all the teams we need them to beat,nothing more,nothing less.

I know it's not HS. That kind of "bring your A game" statement is a BS statement though. Playing up and down to a teams potential is a crappy way to go about the season. (Yup, the Browns crapped out against the Bengals and paid the price for it too.) Teams that do that don't deserve to be in the playoffs.

xfl2001fan
08-01-2008, 03:11 PM
Fine, if they're so cognizant of "what it takes to make it" then why the collapse against the Bengals late last season which essentially cost them the division crown and the playoffs?

Dude, this is a Steelers board. If you're expecting respect for the Browns here, you're barking up the wrong tree.

They crapped out and deserved to not make the playoffs for not winning against a team they should have beaten. It should serve as a nice wake up call for them.

I don't expect respect for the Browns here. I know that my team is going to be disrespected. Up until last season, they've never shown a good reason to be taken seriously. I also understand the whole "until you beat us" attitude the Steelers have for the Browns. It's only logical that they would feel that way (as well as their fans.)

However, to assume that these professional football players suddenly think they need to play the Browns harder than they did last year is stupid. I don't expect for the Steelers to play us any harder than they did last season. I expect for them to come after us with everything they've got. I would hope that all professional athletes (and particularly Coaching staffs) would preach the same thing.

billybob
08-01-2008, 03:12 PM
We started out on a rough and rocky road,but maybe there is some hope for you after all.Like i said before,if you hang around the furnace,expect nothing but some kind of heat.

fansince'76
08-01-2008, 03:24 PM
I don't expect respect for the Browns here. I know that my team is going to be disrespected.

Funny, but that doesn't seem to keep you from stopping just short of demanding it.

Your last line tells you the answer, you just seem hell-bent on ignoring it....The Browns look like a team that could contend....Then again, I should just start considering the source and realize you'll always take the worst take on anything I say.

And that was a reply to a post I made dissing Moss more than anything else. Which is surprising, because for the most part, I've pretty much ignored and haven't responded to your :twocents: which you seem compelled to leave in practically every thread here. Your posts today have seemed to have a pretty angry undertone to them, which is why I reiterated that this is a Steelers board and to not expect a lot of complimentary things to be said about the Browns here.

billybob
08-01-2008, 03:39 PM
Funny, but that doesn't seem to keep you from stopping just short of demanding it.



And that was a reply to a post I made dissing Moss more than anything else. Which is surprising, because for the most part, I've pretty much ignored and haven't responded to your :twocents: which you seem compelled to leave in practically every thread here. Your posts today have seemed to have a pretty angry undertone to them, which is why I reiterated that this is a Steelers board and to not expect a lot of complimentary things to be said about the Browns here.

Well stated fansince,Still trying to understand his motives.

billybob
08-01-2008, 04:02 PM
They crapped out and deserved to not make the playoffs for not winning against a team they should have beaten. It should serve as a nice wake up call for them.

I don't expect respect for the Browns here. I know that my team is going to be disrespected. Up until last season, they've never shown a good reason to be taken seriously. I also understand the whole "until you beat us" attitude the Steelers have for the Browns. It's only logical that they would feel that way (as well as their fans.)

However, to assume that these professional football players suddenly think they need to play the Browns harder than they did last year is stupid. I don't expect for the Steelers to play us any harder than they did last season. I expect for them to come after us with everything they've got. I would hope that all professional athletes (and particularly Coaching staffs) would preach the same thing.

If we play you guys any harder we would win by at least 76-10.Thats not a basketball score either.The competition determines the players and scheme you utilize against a particular opponent.Not to mention the amount of talent you are willing to hide until it is called for.(show all your cards).It is a game and is abided by rules.Teams can thrash you,or they can play thier second string and gain them some experience too.
My best advice to the Cleveland Browns is to stick Brady Quinn in as soon as possible,and let him acclimate.Ben did just fine.He was use to Ohio ways. It is not stupid to bring your a-game against some opponents.If you already know where you are going you can make the determination to speed up,or give up, or just slow down.Or just plain shut up!!!!!!!!

xfl2001fan
08-01-2008, 04:18 PM
Funny, but that doesn't seem to keep you from stopping just short of demanding it.

I make my arguments based on items I feel are being ignored.

And that was a reply to a post I made dissing Moss more than anything else. Which is surprising, because for the most part, I've pretty much ignored and haven't responded to your :twocents: which you seem compelled to leave in practically every thread here. Your posts today have seemed to have a pretty angry undertone to them, which is why I reiterated that this is a Steelers board and to not expect a lot of complimentary things to be said about the Browns here.

I apologize for the angry undertone. I've looked back and can see where it could easily be read that way. I'll work harder on avoiding that.

I add my :twocents: because that's what I do. It's the differences between myself and the great majority here that drive me. Even at work, I tend to gravitate to those that are much more different than I am. Different ideas and opinions allowing me to see things from a different perspective. One I will more than likely disagree with, but that's to be expected.

St33lersguy
08-01-2008, 04:22 PM
Tougher schedules and not sneaking up on anyone is usually how teams struggle the year after an amizing cinderella story season. I don't see rason #4 even a possibility if reason #5 doesn't come true. Another good reason is the fact that they are 2 years removed from a 4-12 season and the fact that they have a bad habit of continuing success (ex: 4 consecutive losing seasons following their 2002 playoff season and playoff loss to the Steelers.).

billybob
08-01-2008, 04:28 PM
Is that your wife dude that you use for your avitar?Looks kind of fake to me.Less she doesn't know where she is going either.(LOL)

xfl2001fan
08-01-2008, 05:15 PM
Is that your wife dude that you use for your avitar?Looks kind of fake to me.Less she doesn't know where she is going either.(LOL)

Not my wife, just some random internet pic. Browns don't have Cheerleaders, so I had to use what I could find.

fansince'76
08-01-2008, 05:46 PM
I apologize for the angry undertone. I've looked back and can see where it could easily be read that way. I'll work harder on avoiding that.

I add my :twocents: because that's what I do. It's the differences between myself and the great majority here that drive me. Even at work, I tend to gravitate to those that are much more different than I am. Different ideas and opinions allowing me to see things from a different perspective. One I will more than likely disagree with, but that's to be expected.

I also apologize if I came across too brusquely. You're more than welcome to add your input. What I really meant is I'm not one of the ones around here who have been riding you and trying to get your goat, which is why I was somewhat taken aback by your response. Peace. :drink:

HometownGal
08-01-2008, 05:57 PM
I add my :twocents: because that's what I do. It's the differences between myself and the great majority here that drive me. Even at work, I tend to gravitate to those that are much more different than I am. Different ideas and opinions allowing me to see things from a different perspective. One I will more than likely disagree with, but that's to be expected.

No one minds that you add your two cents in the forums where one would expect to discuss the Browns and any other AFCN opponent. I have noticed (as have a lot of others) that you seem to turn a lot of the threads in the Steelers forum into Browns discussions and that just aint cool, xflfan. It's called the Pittsburgh Steelers forum for a reason. While you're trying to rid yourself of the negative undertones, please try to be cognizant and respectful of Steelers fans who come here to specifically discuss STEELERS football. Those who give a flying fandoozle about the Browns can go to the NFL forum or the Blast Furnace.

I'm not trying to be a hardass here and you have a very good football mind, but please remember that this is a Pittsburgh Steelers BB and though any NFL fan is welcome here . . . .

"A man's got to know his limitations". :wink02::chuckle:

http://www.topnews.in/light/files/clint-eastwood-dirty-harry.JPG

millwalldavey
08-01-2008, 07:33 PM
#7. THEY SUCK!

billybob
08-01-2008, 08:09 PM
#8 The Pittsburgh Steelers

xfl2001fan
08-01-2008, 09:27 PM
I also apologize if I came across too brusquely. You're more than welcome to add your input. What I really meant is I'm not one of the ones around here who have been riding you and trying to get your goat, which is why I was somewhat taken aback by your response. Peace. :drink::drink: (Mine'll have to be a rootbeer, cuz I don't drink alcoholic beverages!)

xfl2001fan
08-01-2008, 09:35 PM
While you're trying to rid yourself of the negative undertones, please try to be cognizant and respectful of Steelers fans who come here to specifically discuss STEELERS football. Those who give a flying fandoozle about the Browns can go to the NFL forum or the Blast Furnace.


I'll work on that in the Steelers threads, though I generally have been trying to just read those. Unfortunately (in regards to this site) most of my NFL comparisons are going to come from the team I know best...which in this case happens to be the team least liked (though it's a close race with the Cheatriots). lol

In this particular case, though, it's in the NFL forum and is about the Browns, so you can pretty much expect I'm going to post/respond here.

Again, I will work on it in other spots with the site. :drink:

millwalldavey
08-01-2008, 10:04 PM
:drink: (Mine'll have to be a rootbeer, cuz I don't drink alcoholic beverages!)

You got the Straight Edge?

xfl2001fan
08-01-2008, 10:10 PM
You got the Straight Edge?

Must be showing my age on this one...huh? LOL

I come from a family of alcoholics and they've all been arrested at one time or another while drinking. Half of em get extremely violent. The other half get almost as dumb. I'd rather not go that route. I like having a career and I tend to have as much fun playing DD as the guys/gals I hang out with do while they're drinking.

Steelman16
08-01-2008, 10:26 PM
:drink: (Mine'll have to be a rootbeer, cuz I don't drink alcoholic beverages!)

:toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

Sorry, that just struck me as really funny.

Thanks XFL for being understanding about the topics in the Pittsburgh Steelers section. Take the thread on Sepulveda's injury for example. We're reporting on an injury to our punter and all of sudden it's a Browns Vs Steelers furnace. Not pointing fingers, but just using it as an example of what ticks me (and probably others here on the boards) off sometimes.

The thing about message boards is that we're typing our thoughts out. Through moderating various boards over the years, I've said this a million times. If I was talking to a Browns fan at work or something, I could see and sense his tone, body language, or additude about what's he spewing about his team. On a message board, all I see are words which can interpreted numerous ways, generally depending on my "impression" of the person from his posts. It's all pretty fickle.

For instance...the following sentence could be read different ways depending on your own interpretation:

"The Steelers beat the Browns today, 41-to-7." (factually)
"The Steelers beat the Browns today, 41-to-7." (taunting)
"The Steelers beat the Browns today, 41-to-7." (chuckling)
"The Steelers beat the Browns today, 41-to-7." (whatever)
"The Steelers beat the Browns today, 41-to-7." (awesome)

So you can see. The same sentence could have 5 different meanings, all depending on the reader's sense of perception of the poster.

The one way I've found to be helpful in dealing with this issue, is to use a certain cadence in my head as I post. If I'm adding input, I try to be kind and generous. If I'm reporting, I try to be factual. If I'm debating, I do whatever I want! :chuckle: (jk)

Anyway, hope that helps you or somebody else on this board. You're actually a pretty good guy who can string sentences and write in understandable English. (which is no small feat in today's world...) But you do have some vices. Such as, rooting for the wrong team, but we'll forgive you. :wink02:

xfl2001fan
08-02-2008, 09:37 AM
:toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

Sorry, that just struck me as really funny.

Anyway, hope that helps you or somebody else on this board. You're actually a pretty good guy who can string sentences and write in understandable English. (which is no small feat in today's world...) But you do have some vices. Such as, rooting for the wrong team, but we'll forgive you. :wink02:

(As with other long posts, cut the fat out.)

I understand about monitoring my posts, but I'm usually doing 2-3 things at once cuz I'm either at work or at home. This past week has been particularly busy.

We all have our vices. Some are more accpetable than others. For instance, I accept the fact that you're a Steelers fan, though the team itself is detestable! LOL

Forgiving me for being a Browns fan. You might, but there are many here who won't. Besides, I wear my fandom with pride! I expect the shots to come in.

Not sure what was funny about being a non-drinker. Maybe you all just think I'd have to be a raging alcoholic to be a Browns fan. :banging::laughing:

**********ADDITION*********

In my defense on the Sepulveda thread, I didn't post on that thread until after it had been turned into a Browns thread. As stated earlier, if people are going to post about my team, I'll likely make my defense. Fansince'76 began his anti-Browns statements , then he and 9-5 did their thing before I joined. I had actually ignored the initial statements (to include a personal BS statement that had referred to me)...but it kept going on.

fansince'76
08-02-2008, 12:37 PM
In my defense on the Sepulveda thread, I didn't post on that thread until after it had been turned into a Browns thread. As stated earlier, if people are going to post about my team, I'll likely make my defense. Fansince'76 began his anti-Browns statements , then he and 9-5 did their thing before I joined. I had actually ignored the initial statements (to include a personal BS statement that had referred to me)...but it kept going on.

Wrong. Go back and read the thread again, please. Here were my exact statements in that thread before 9-5 used the thread as an excuse to take a shot at the Steelers:

post #4 of thread:

Not good. :banging:


post #17 of thread:

Does anyone know if Mike Bar is playing anywhere? He looked real good for us last preseason and the only reason he got cut, imo, was because we just drafted Sep.

Agreed - is Barr available? I thought he had a really strong leg last year too, he was just a half tick slower getting the ball out of there than Sep.

EDIT: Ehh, never mind....

He (Barr) was cut by the Steelers, but claimed off waivers by the Arizona Cardinals, who released their punter Scott Player on August 29, 2007. He was later cut on November 27, 2007 for a dismal 2007 season, finishing last in the NFL in punt averages.

Mike Barr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Barr_(football_player))


post #20 of thread:

I know one thing, I won't give up on the season because a 2nd year Punter went out with an ACL Tear.

Move on, find someone else to punt or better yet, Move the EFFING STICKS On 3rd down and this is a non-issue.

Yep, score every frigging time we get it and it's a non-issue. It's not a season-killer by any means, but it sucks that it happened now right at the beginning of camp.


post #24 of thread:

ummmmm , actually if season ending injuries are gonna happen, NOW is the best time for it to happen. at least now, they don't have to settle for the first guy that answers his phone.

Yep, and at least by it happening now, he truly will have a full year to heal up. It's still a downer right at the start of camp, though.


post #85 of thread:

.... the Steelers moved up to get Sep with no apparent effort to conduct due diligence on whether his knee had healed properly.

He made it through his entire rookie season without incident. How much due diligence should they have done?


See? Not an "anti-Browns statement" from me in any of those posts, is there? And then this:


post #73 of thread:

Paul "I cant catch a perfect snap" Earnster?

Damn, you guys are desperate.

To which I replied with the following:

post #92 of thread:

Not desperate enough to trade our best CB from an already paper-thin secondary and a third round pick for an historically unmotivated lardass with a piss-poor attitude.

Go away, troll. :coffee:


I didn't start with any "anti-Browns statements" until 9-5 began acting like a troll in that thread, not the other way around.

lilyoder6
08-02-2008, 01:17 PM
the browns are alrdy too thin at the sec and jamal lewis is another yr older and w/ no one to help out hopefully he doesn't run out of gas or gets injured

xfl2001fan
08-02-2008, 02:55 PM
I apologize, I am not saying that you didn't feel justified with your statements, but you did make the first statement that was...deragatory...towards the Browns as a team.

I didn't read 9-5's statement as anything more than a "if the Browns cut his ass, why would you want him?" type statement. You took it differently. No worries there. Then you and 9-5 had your running dialogue concnerning the Browns. It wasn't until after that dialogue continued that I threw in my piece.

Regardless of what the two of you said to each other, you were the first to bring the Browns up. I didn't jump on that first comment, because I felt like it wasn't my argument and that it wasn't going to do any good. In the end, I did begin posting there, but I neither initiated the conversation, nor instigated any Browns bashing.

fansince'76
08-02-2008, 03:17 PM
....you did make the first statement that was...deragatory...towards the Browns as a team.

I didn't read 9-5's statement as anything more than a "if the Browns cut his ass, why would you want him?" type statement. You took it differently.

Mmmm....no, I didn't. I also wasn't the only one or the first to take the "Damn, you guys are desperate" comment to be a trollish one and treat it as such.

post #74 of thread:

Paul "I cant catch a perfect snap" Earnster?

Damn, you guys are desperate.

not so desperate that we would trade our best DB for one of matt millen's and the detroit lion's dregs....

talk about flotsam and jetsam.


next.

revefsreleets
08-02-2008, 04:09 PM
Since it was my assertion, I'm happy to defend it.

Calling me stupid (again) aside, it's beyond ridiculous to think that professional athletes don't:
A) slack in practice
B) takes plays off
C) rest on their proverbial "laurels"
D) phone games in
E) take games off, especially meaningless games

This is their job. Just like everyone, they have good days and bad days, days they work harder then others. When teams play the Steelers, they "wear their best suit", and that's what the Browns will get this year.

Saying it's stupid is cute, but it doesn't change that fact that it's completely true. The Browns will probably lose to the Girls, the Steelers (week 2), the Giants and the Skins, Broncs and Jags, Colts Eagles and Steelers (again). They may win a couple of those games, but they COULD make it up by losing to Buffalo, or the Titans, or the Bengals.

8-8, 7-9 is about right (9-7 could happen). Teams will gun for them, and if you say THAT'S stupid, then you need to stick to the locker room.

xfl2001fan
08-02-2008, 04:18 PM
Mmmm....no, I didn't.

I also wasn't the only one or the first to take the "Damn, you guys are desperate" comment to be a trollish one and treat it as such.

post #74 of thread:

I made my comments after the thread was hijacked. I didn't hijack it. Those are the key points of my conversation.

All of the other items that can be discussed, the finer points and such, are irrelevant in the main point I am making.

I don't want to do a he-says she-says style of argument. You took it one way. I took it another. Someone else agrees with you. It's still irrelevant. I didn't hijack the thread.

If you didn't make the first Anti-Browns statement, then the first one was overlooked and ignored by the Browns fans. Your Anti-Browns statement (regardless of what caused you to say it, or how justified you were) was the first one that anybody responded to. It wasn't me that responded to that one. I didn't respond to any of that until later in the thread after it had been hijacked.

I'm not saying I haven't hijacked other threads. I am sure I have. I'm not saying that I haven't hijacked threads in the Pittsburgh Steelers section. I'm sure I have. However, the inital comments that I responded to (in this thread) made me feel like I was the one who hijacked that particular thread. That isn't true. I joined afterwards.

All of the other points you bring up is a different discussion all together. If you'd like to have that discussion, then so be it. We can go over that, though I'd prefer to just let the whole thing die down at this point.

I apologized for my undertones, and I meant that.
I apologized for any hijacking, and I meant that.
I have apologized for other items that I have done wrong...and I meant that as well.

However, this particular piece is getting old as it's going way off the intended topic. If there are any negative undertones...so be it. I won't apologize for them. The key points of the conversation have been overlooked by minor details that (while they do make an interesting discussion) are irrelevant to the actual case.

Can we at least agree on the fact that I didn't initiate the hijacking of the thread?

Anything further that needs to be discussed, I'd prefer to either create a new thread (possibly in the Blast furnace so you can let loose if you feel the need) or via PM.

xfl2001fan
08-02-2008, 04:25 PM
Since it was my assertion, I'm happy to defend it.

Calling me stupid (again) aside, it's beyond ridiculous to think that professional athletes don't:
A) slack in practice
B) takes plays off
C) rest on their proverbial "laurels"
D) phone games in
E) take games off, especially meaningless games

This is their job. Just like everyone, they have good days and bad days, days they work harder then others. When teams play the Steelers, they "wear their best suit", and that's what the Browns will get this year.

Saying it's stupid is cute, but it doesn't change that fact that it's completely true. The Browns will probably lose to the Girls, the Steelers (week 2), the Giants and the Skins, Broncs and Jags, Colts Eagles and Steelers (again). They may win a couple of those games, but they COULD make it up by losing to Buffalo, or the Titans, or the Bengals.

8-8, 7-9 is about right (9-7 could happen). Teams will gun for them, and if you say THAT'S stupid, then you need to stick to the locker room.

I didn't call you stupid. Should I ever decide to call you stupid, it will be impossible to ignore by anyone on here. I don't go that route. I said it's a stupid statement. Just like the whole "Favre Just Wins" statement or other generalized statements that many of the pundits like to spew for whatever reason strikes their fancy.

Taking plays off and taking games off is two very different scenarios. Guys like Randy Moss, while extremely talented, are a freaking joke and waste of space because of their crappy "Me-First" attitude. I feel that the attitude of taking games off, or taking other opponents less seriously is a stupid sentiment.

I don't doubt that teams will be "gunning" for us. That should be the case with every opponent, regardless of record. To do otherwise, is stupid.

fansince'76
08-02-2008, 04:34 PM
If you didn't make the first Anti-Browns statement, then the first one was overlooked and ignored by the Browns fans. Your Anti-Browns statement (regardless of what caused you to say it, or how justified you were) was the first one that anybody responded to. It wasn't me that responded to that one. I didn't respond to any of that until later in the thread after it had been hijacked.

I never said you did hijack that thread, and I agree that you didn't hijack that thread. After I made my little retaliatory strike in post #92, the thread went 8 more posts with comments about the Sepluveda situation, and not the Browns. In post #102, 9-5 made the following comment:

No.

And Leigh Bodden was our 2nd or 3rd best corner. E-Wright and possibly B-Mac are better. And least our lardass can run down the field 8 times with out quitting. Worry about your own damn unmotivated lardass on the PUP list, dude.

After that post, four of the next seven posts in that thread were anti-Browns statements by Steelers fans (five of eight if you include another one of my posts). I think it's very clear who hijacked that thread, and it wasn't you. But it wasn't me either, and I'd appreciate it if you'd stop insinuating it was.

revefsreleets
08-02-2008, 04:40 PM
Hey, this is all part of the education of the Browns and their fans. The Steelers are winners. They play (and win) HUGE games all the time. It's a big step up. It's the bigs versus AA ball. We'll see how the Browns react, but, eh, I've lived in NEO long enough to have formulated a very informed and educated opinion on exactly how well the Browns will react when the pressure starts to mount.

j-dawg
08-02-2008, 04:48 PM
I think it's been unjustly stated the Browns are a lock for starting the season out 0-2. They lost ONE game at home last year. To say they're going to double that right off the bat sure is laughable. They've PROVEN they can win at home. This team has gone through a lot of adversity and hasn't been handed anything.. ESPECIALLY a schedule it can't compete in.

xfl2001fan
08-02-2008, 04:55 PM
After that post, four of the next eight posts in that thread were anti-Browns statements by Steelers fans (five of nine if you include another one of my posts). I think it's very clear who hijacked that thread, and it wasn't you. But it wasn't me either, and I'd appreciate it if you'd stop insinuating it was.

Then we are both in agreeance. I didn't hijack the thread and I shouldn't have insinuated it was you. I was looking at the initiating argument (the statements between you and 9-5) as the "point of hijacking."

It came down to a difference in viewpoints and poor choice of wording.

xfl2001fan
08-02-2008, 04:56 PM
Hey, this is all part of the education of the Browns and their fans. The Steelers are winners. They play (and win) HUGE games all the time. It's a big step up. It's the bigs versus AA ball. We'll see how the Browns react, but, eh, I've lived in NEO long enough to have formulated a very informed and educated opinion on exactly how well the Browns will react when the pressure starts to mount.

Educate me again on how that NE game went? I'm pretty sure that should have been a pretty big game for you guys.

If you're going to take cheap shots, expect a few back.

fansince'76
08-02-2008, 05:10 PM
Then we are both in agreeance. I didn't hijack the thread and I shouldn't have insinuated it was you. I was looking at the initiating argument (the statements between you and 9-5) as the "point of hijacking."

It came down to a difference in viewpoints and poor choice of wording.

I'm sorry if you thought I was insinuating you hijacked that thread - as I said I don't think you did. And if I read too much (and I admit I sometimes do) into your previous post and you weren't insinuating that I hijacked that thread, I also apologize for that. :cheers: < (root beer) :chuckle:

revefsreleets
08-02-2008, 05:15 PM
You lost to the Pats too. We won a Super Bowl a couple years ago by playing on the road against the best teams the better conference had to offer. You didn't finish in the basement for once. Big difference.

The Browns can't beat the Steelers even when they have them on the ropes at home.

Your team is better. Just better. But so is mine. Can't wait to see how it plays out, but I'm feeling pretty good about it...

HometownGal
08-02-2008, 06:56 PM
They lost ONE game at home last year. They've PROVEN they can win at home.

They sure did. :tt02: They've also proven over the last 4 seasons that they can't beat the Steelers. Me thinks the Browns have allowed the Steelers to get into their heads. :wink02::chuckle:

j-dawg
08-02-2008, 07:08 PM
They sure did. :tt02: They've also proven over the last 4 seasons that they can't beat the Steelers. Me thinks the Browns have allowed the Steelers to get into their heads. :wink02::chuckle:

:hatsoff: very true HTG, very true...

xfl2001fan
08-02-2008, 08:54 PM
You lost to the Pats too. We won a Super Bowl a couple years ago by playing on the road against the best teams the better conference had to offer. You didn't finish in the basement for once. Big difference.

The Browns can't beat the Steelers even when they have them on the ropes at home.

Your team is better. Just better. But so is mine. Can't wait to see how it plays out, but I'm feeling pretty good about it...

Yup, but when I'm told that a team is used to winning the bigger games, and is going to downplay my team, I've got to question the most recent history. The NFL is a what have you done for me lately league. You lost your last game and (just like my team) lost games last season that you should have won.

For the first time in over a decade, I've allowed hope to actually creep in that my team will compete with the Steelers. You say it's sad that Browns fans would feel that way...you dont' really know what it's like to have a team ripped from you and then brought back with crappy management. It has been far too long since you've fielded a team that wasn't worthy of respect, so I wouldn't expect for you to understand why that hope is such a big deal for us.

I'm looking forward to this season (with cautious optimism) to see if we can actually compete. All in all, an 8-8 season (or better) wouldn't be a terrible thing for us. Anything less than the playoffs will certainly be a disappointment, but it is feasible, however hard that might be for Steelers fans to admit. I won't say it's likely, because I believe it means beating Pittsburgh at least once, but likely twice to really happen.

xfl2001fan
08-02-2008, 08:56 PM
I'm sorry if you thought I was insinuating you hijacked that thread - as I said I don't think you did. And if I read too much (and I admit I sometimes do) into your previous post and you weren't insinuating that I hijacked that thread, I also apologize for that. :cheers: < (root beer) :chuckle:

It's all good! :drink: (You can drink, I'll drive!)

revefsreleets
08-03-2008, 03:04 PM
It's just become a broken record. Every year I've got all these Browns fans all up in my mix (Iive here, you know), telling me how "This is going to be the year" and how lucky and sucky the Steelers are, and it just gets old. So far, as far as I can see, this year is no different at all than any other year. Hope springs eternal, and by week 6 the sports bars will largely be devoid of any Browns fans...again. maybe it'll take until week 8 or 10 this year...maybe.

j-dawg
08-03-2008, 03:27 PM
It's just become a broken record. Every year I've got all these Browns fans all up in my mix (Iive here, you know), telling me how "This is going to be the year" and how lucky and sucky the Steelers are, and it just gets old. So far, as far as I can see, this year is no different at all than any other year. Hope springs eternal, and by week 6 the sports bars will largely be devoid of any Browns fans...again. maybe it'll take until week 8 or 10 this year...maybe.

:noidea: revefs... i'm thinking the locals have really got your goat... but come week sixteen i'll be at the bar rooting for my team!! can't wait for the season to start...:drink:

revefsreleets
08-03-2008, 04:36 PM
The Browns fans I run across (in person), are, for the most part angry and bitter and are not joking or jovial. Losing so badly for so many years has made them full of hatred and jealousy.

They need to exercise a little "serenity now".

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-03-2008, 07:44 PM
Reason #7: They dont live in the same reality as...well...sane people.


Several current Browns may make their runs toward Canton
Sunday, August 3, 2008
By Steve Doerschuk
REPOSITORY SPORTS WRITER

......here is one view of the current Browns' strongest contenders to one day ride in the Grand Parade: (Go to the Hall Of Fame)

1, The player: Joe Thomas

The profile Left tackle, No. 3 overall pick behind JaMarcus Russell and Calvin Johnson in the 2007 draft, 2008 Pro Bowl.

The case Players who make one Pro Bowl tend to keep getting elected. Thomas strikes everyone as a worker who will keep deserving Pro Bowls. Seven Pro Bowls got Class of 2008 enshrinee Gary Zimmerman in the Hall.

2, The player: Jamal Lewis

The profile Running back, No. 5 overall pick in 2000, six 1,000-plus rushing years.

The case He was the best offensive player on a Super Bowl winner as a rookie; he came close to an NFL record with 2,066 yards in 2003. If the second wind he caught in 2007 extends through his new three-year contract, he'll retire with upwards of 13,000 rushing yards. Ex-Brown Leroy Kelly is in the Hall with 7,274 yards.

3, The player: Braylon Edwards

The profile No. 3 draft of 2005 draft behind Alex Smith and Ronnie Brown, 2008 Pro Bowl.

The case He has the flash and size needed to sell HOF voters when big receiving numbers are all over the place. His NFL numbers go up each year, his third producing 80 catches for 1,289 yards and 16 touchdowns. Often enough, he doesn't just make the big catch. He makes it look pretty.

4, The player: Kellen Winslow Jr.

The profile Tight end, 2004 No. 6 overall pick, 2008 Pro Bowl.

The case After basically missing his first two years, he has 171 catches for 1,981 yards in his third and fourth years. Newsome gave the early 1980s Browns 120 catches for 1,596 yards in his third and fourth years. Winslow's father, inducted in 1999, racked up 142 catches for 1,796 yards in his third and fourth years. Injuries sent Winslow's dad into decline after his fifth season.

5, The player: Willie McGinest

The profile Outside linebacker, No. 4 pick of the 1994 draft, four Super Bowls with three rings as a Patriot.

The case He might need one last splash to get in the Hall of Fame mix. He owns the NFL record for career postseason sacks but has been in just two Pro Bowls. He's the oldest starting linebacker in the league, but he has an amazing body and is healthier than he was in his two previous years with Cleveland.

And the others

Other Browns for whom the Hall of Fame does not seem an impossible dream:

• QB Derek Anderson 10-5 record and Pro Bowl as a 24-year-old, first-time starter.

• DL Shaun Rogers Two Pro Bowls with the Lions and a chance to be the biggest defensive name on a rising team.

• LB Kamerion Wimbley 16 sacks in two seasons since entering the NFL as a Round 1 pick.

• CB Eric Wright One strong season as a starter, supporting the notion he was a Round 2 steal.

• QB Brady Quinn Who knows which way his story will turn?
http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?Category=17&ID=424020&r=1&subCategoryID=26

I wish I had made this up....its just....REALLY sad.

tony hipchest
08-03-2008, 08:40 PM
Several current Browns may make their runs toward Canton
Sunday, August 3, 2008
By Steve Doerschuk
SUPOSITORY SPORTS WRITER


that explains it....

RoethlisBURGHer
08-03-2008, 09:21 PM
Now if we were to make this list for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

QB Ben Roethlisberger

Profile: QB, First round pick (11th overall) in 2004 NFL Draft, 2007 Pro Bowl

The Case: Set many rookie QB records (13 straight wins being one of them); Super Bowl Champion; strong leadership qualities

Casey Hampton

Profile: NT, First Round Pick (19th overall) in 2001 NFL Draft, multiple Pro Bowls

The Case: One of the most dominant 3-4 NT's of his time; Super Bowl Champion

Hines Ward

Profile: WR, Third Round Pick in 1998 NFL Draft, Multiple Pro Bowls

The Case: Great hands throughout his career; Steelers career leader in catches, TD catches, and yards (more than HoFers Stallworth and Swann); Super Bowl Champion; Super Bowl MVP

Aaron Smith

Profile: DE, Fourth Round Pick in 1999 NFL Draft

The Case: One of the better 3-4 DE's of his time, excellent against the run and very good against the pass, Super Bowl Champion

Troy Polamalu

Profile: SS, First Round Pick (16th overall) in 2003 NFL Draft, multiple Pro Bowls

The Case: Considered one of the top safteys in the game throughout his career, Super Bowl Champion

Willie Parker

Profile: RB, Undrafted Free Agent out of UNC signed in 2004

The Case: Record for logest run in Super Bowl history (75 yards and for a TD), three staright 1000 yard seasons, still young and will be a productive runner for quite a few more years, Super Bowl Champion

Others who can possibly get in some day:

LaMarr Woodley, OLB
Jeff Reed, K
Santonio Holmes, WR
Ike Taylor, CB

9-5
08-03-2008, 10:44 PM
Now if we were to make this list for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

QB Ben Roethlisberger

Profile: QB, First round pick (11th overall) in 2004 NFL Draft, 2007 Pro Bowl

The Case: Set many rookie QB records (13 straight wins being one of them); Super Bowl Champion; strong leadership qualities

Since the Super Bowl, what has he done? Just lead the league in interceptions and fail to get back to the AFCCG

Casey Hampton

Profile: NT, First Round Pick (19th overall) in 2001 NFL Draft, multiple Pro Bowls

The Case: One of the most dominant 3-4 NT's of his time; Super Bowl Champion

Maybe, i don't think he has the numbers to make it.

Hines Ward

Profile: WR, Third Round Pick in 1998 NFL Draft, Multiple Pro Bowls

The Case: Great hands throughout his career; Steelers career leader in catches, TD catches, and yards (more than HoFers Stallworth and Swann); Super Bowl Champion; Super Bowl MVP

Probably the best chance to get in, I think he will. (As much as I hate to say it)

Aaron Smith

Profile: DE, Fourth Round Pick in 1999 NFL Draft

The Case: One of the better 3-4 DE's of his time, excellent against the run and very good against the pass, Super Bowl Champion


Again, I don't think he has the numbers or the name to get in.

Troy Polamalu

Profile: SS, First Round Pick (16th overall) in 2003 NFL Draft, multiple Pro Bowls

The Case: Considered one of the top safteys in the game throughout his career, Super Bowl Champion

He plays like he did a couple years ago, he looks like a lock.

Willie Parker

Profile: RB, Undrafted Free Agent out of UNC signed in 2004

The Case: Record for logest run in Super Bowl history (75 yards and for a TD), three staright 1000 yard seasons, still young and will be a productive runner for quite a few more years, Super Bowl Champion

He has the numbers, but something is telling me he won't make it. Maybe its just the browns fan in me, but I don't think he is that good. He is a big scat back who has never gotten the tough yards. He led the league in rushing until he got hurt, but he had like 5 TD's.

Others who can possibly get in some day:

LaMarr Woodley, OLB. LMAO, lets wait until he plays a big role before we start molding his bust.
Jeff Reed, K A average kicker, good but not great. Being average does not get you into the Hall.
Santonio Holmes, WR Has he even had a 1000 yard season yet?
Ike Taylor, CB Product of a great defensive scheme by Hall of Famer Dick LeBeau.
Just because they have rings does not mean they get in. It is not a requirement to get in.


For the Browns:

Joe Thomas:

He has played one year! Granted, he only gave up one sack, but lets see how he does this year.

Jamal Lewis:

Hall of Fame, maybe. As a brown, probably not. If he gets in, it will be most likely as a Raven. He had his best performances against us, so I don't think he gets in as a Brown

Braylon Edwards:

A few more years like last, and you will be seeing him in Canton

Kellen Winslow Jr:

The best tight-end since his dad, he is a freak of nature. 6'6", 240 , and runs as well as anybody out there. Injuries are a concern, but if he can stay healthy, he is Canton bound.

Willie McGinest:

Just like Jamal Lewis, he will most likely get in as a member of another team. Willie has the post-season record for sacks as a Patriot, so I think he goes in as a Patriot.

Derek Anderson:

LONG way from Canton........I dont even understand why is on the list

Shaun Rodgers:

Same

Kamerion Wimbley

Same

Eric Wright

Same

Brady Quinn

WTF?!

But I think another Brown could get in:

Phil Dawson:

All Phil Dawson has done in his time in Cleveland is become the 4th most accurate kicker in NFL history, at about a 81% percentage. Considering he plays almost in Lake Erie, I'd say that's pretty impressive. In addition to his accuracy, he has a part of the uprights named after him (the Dawson Bar, the support bar which he hit in back to back games), and is the kicker of perhaps the most famous field goal since Wide Right.

CantStop85
08-03-2008, 11:10 PM
NFL players don't go into the Hall Of Fame as members of just one team...they are inducted on behalf of all the teams they played for.

Anyway, the only players on these 2 teams who are sniffing the HOF right now are Hines Ward and MAYBE Willie McGinest or Jamal Lewis. The rest still have a long road ahead of them.

tony hipchest
08-03-2008, 11:21 PM
QB Ben Roethlisberger

Since the Super Bowl, what has he done? Just lead the league in interceptions and fail to get back to the AFCCG.

you mean other than throw more td's than joe montana or terry bradshaw ever did in a single season, follow up tom brady with the leagues highest passer rating, and make it to a pro bowl?

doesnt put him in the hall, but it sure as hell answers your rediculous assed question. :tt03::tt02::tt::helmet:

fansince'76
08-03-2008, 11:24 PM
But I think another Brown could get in:

Phil Dawson:

All Phil Dawson has done in his time in Cleveland is become the 4th most accurate kicker in NFL history, at about a 81% percentage. Considering he plays almost in Lake Erie, I'd say that's pretty impressive. In addition to his accuracy, he has a part of the uprights named after him (the Dawson Bar, the support bar which he hit in back to back games), and is the kicker of perhaps the most famous field goal since Wide Right.

Dawson will be only the 2nd pure PK besides Jan Stenerud to date to get in over the likes of Gary Anderson, Morten Andersen and Adam Vinatieri? Doubtful. Highly doubtful. PKs simply don't go to the HoF very often (Stenerud is the only pure PK to make it so far and a pure punter has still never made it in the Hall's almost 50-year history to this point), and Dawson is a bit down the list of ones deserving to go.

Preacher
08-03-2008, 11:28 PM
And the Browns jealousy of Ben continues.

After all guys... come on, a game manager doesn't get into the HOF! :chuckle:

The Duke
08-03-2008, 11:35 PM
no John Kuhn on the list ........ok :shake02:

Preacher
08-03-2008, 11:39 PM
no John Kuhn on the list ........ok :shake02:

I thought he was already in... some kind of special dispensation.

9-5
08-04-2008, 12:11 AM
Dawson will be only the 2nd pure PK besides Jan Stenerud to date to get in over the likes of Gary Anderson, Morten Andersen and Adam Vinatieri? Doubtful. Highly doubtful. PKs simply don't go to the HoF very often (Stenerud is the only pure PK to make it so far and a pure punter has still never made it in the Hall's almost 50-year history to this point), and Dawson is a bit down the list of ones deserving to go.
Yeah, I don't think he will make it but I am hoping he does one day

And the Browns jealousy of Ben continues.

After all guys... come on, a game manager doesn't get into the HOF! :chuckle:
I'm not jealous. If we would have drafted him, he would probably be retired because our O-line was so bad. I'm happy with our QB situation tyvm.

you mean other than throw more td's than joe montana or terry bradshaw ever did in a single season, follow up tom brady with the leagues highest passer rating, and make it to a pro bowl?

doesnt put him in the hall, but it sure as hell answers your rediculous assed question. :tt03::tt02::tt::helmet:
Resorting to swearing, eh?

Is 21 TD's a year, 200 yards a game really Hall worthy? I don't think so. The high passer rating is sexy, but it SCREAMS game manager. I mean, Derek Anderson averages more yards per game then Ben does. And we all know the only thing he can manage is throwing the deep ball. :chuckle:

Joe Montana never threw 4 or 5 TD's a game because he didn't have to. He was kind of like Ben, except he never led the league in picks. Not to mention his coach was only the greatest offensive mind ever.

And Terry Bradshaw played for a team that ran first, second and third. He couldn't help it. How many QB's had 30 TD seasons in the 70's?

tony hipchest
08-04-2008, 12:48 AM
24/7 it is...




Resorting to swearing, eh?

does that make you sore? this is a MB, not church, and even it it were, i'd suggest you might wanna stay away from reading the bible. hell is... well hell, and ass refers to the stubborness of a donkey, not a rectum. get your mind out of the gutter.

Is 21 TD's a year, 200 yards a game really Hall worthy? reading comprehension must not be your friend. simple reading will show you that i dont believe he goes into the hall if his career ends today, but i do believe i blew your wack assed statement out of the water I don't think so. The high passer rating is sexy, but it SCREAMS game manager. I mean, Derek Anderson averages more yards per game then Ben does. And we all know the only thing he can manage is throwing the deep ball. :chuckle:

ben averages more YPA, playoff wins, and sb wins. :noidea: whats your point?

Joe Montana never threw 4 or 5 TD's a game because he didn't have to. He was kind of like Ben, except he never led the league in picks. Not to mention his coach only the greatest offensive mind ever.

ben has a brown reject for a coordinator and an ex bungle qb for a position coach. yet he has accomplished more than any browns qb has in your entire life.

thats gotta suck.

And Terry Bradshaw played for a team that ran first, second and third. He couldn't help it. How many QB's had 30 TD seasons in the 70's?

both were league mvp's with less than 32 td's. whats your point? whether they were 1st or 5th in td passes in their time, ben was still #3 last year.

both are sb winners (just like ben). after bens sb victory he threw more td's than either of them. what did your potential hall of famer do the year after HIS motorcycle accident?

absolutely nothing.

:coffee:next

xfl2001fan
08-04-2008, 08:03 AM
Regardless, both lists are meaningless as there is (for most of those guys mentioned) a lot of football left to be played that will determine the HoF voters opinions even further down the road.

BE, JT, KWII are far too young to even be thinking about HoF. Period. I don't care if they play three more absolutely stellar seasons, it's still not likely to be enough.

DA has proven less with his late season collapse, so he's an even bigger stretch than many of those names. J-Lew and Willie both need to have a few more productive seasons (or another ring) to be considered.

That's really about it from the Browns at this time. Phil Dawson will never get in because K/P (as well as O-line) are severely overlooked by the HoF committee.

Unless we get better voters, I don't think any current Steelers D-lineman will get in. It's not a knock against them either, but I think they'll be matched up against 4-3 lineman (who's job is to actually make plays) and the numbers won't jive. They'll get overlooked because people will forget about the system they played in and the responsibilities asked of them.

As with the Browns list, many of the players mentioned are far too young to even be thinking about HoF. Ben, FWP etc...

Hines Ward does have an outside shot, but the HoF won't (likely) be looking at his numbers compared to other HoF Steelers WRs, but compared to WR's of his timeframe. Because he is known as such a great (for a WR) blocker, he may get some bonus points to push him over the edge. However, he's not played in an offense that was primarily a passing offense for most of his career...and he's certainly not going to be getting any younger.

If the HoF guys are smart, they'll remember to look beyond the baseline stats, but that's asking a lot for a group of guys that have failed Ray Guy, a couple of Andersons (the kickers, no Browns homerism in this paragraph) and have put nearly twice as many HB/QBs in the HoF than they have offensive lineman (though it takes 5 lineman on every play to make a play happen.)

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-04-2008, 09:12 AM
that explains it....

:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny:

revefsreleets
08-04-2008, 09:31 AM
A) There's a reason that dude writes for the Canton paper, and not the Cleveland PD or even the Akron Beacon Journal
B) That list is laughable. Pontificating about the HOF for any player who has played less than 5 years is absurd and ridiculous.
C) The list of Steelers, I believe, was mocking the original list of Browns
D) Most HOF players need a little "boost" as in some rings. Since the Browns will never win a SB, scartch any of those guys (unless they end up on better teams later in their career)

HometownGal
08-04-2008, 08:11 PM
Since the Super Bowl, what has he done? Just lead the league in interceptions and fail to get back to the AFCCG



Not only are you Browns fans delusional, you suffer from memory loss, too. :doh:

What has Ben done? In addition to what Tony posted, lemme see . . . (and I'll even go back a year for ya - aint I nice?) :chuckle:

Has 7 wins against the Browns. (would have had all 8, but he didn't play in the 11-13-05 game against you) :sofunny:

Has thrown for over 1,500 yards against the Browns poor excuse of a defense in 7 games. :toofunny:

Has thrown 11 TD's against that sorry secondary in 7 games. :laughing:

Rushed for 3 TD's against that pitiful DL. :rofl:

I know, I know - those stats don't guarantee him a HOF berth, but I thought it was worth mentioning. :tt02:

The Duke
08-04-2008, 08:16 PM
I know, I know - those stats don't guarantee him a HOF berth, but I thought it was worth mentioning. :tt02:

seems to me like the browns should have him in their HOF as " Players that own us"

tony hipchest
08-04-2008, 08:41 PM
I know, I know - those stats don't guarantee him a HOF berth, but I thought it was worth mentioning. :tt02:

what else has he done since being the youngest qb to win the sb? i know hes had atleast 1 of his games with a perfect passer rating. and his 5 td's in the first half vs. the browns vol.II last season is an nfl racord. just imagine, had he been allowed to (or needed) to throw the ball in the 2nd half ofr play the ravens in the finale he mightve had close to 40 td's.

if he were allowed to run up the score or have as many attempts (look at his td per attempt ratio) he woulda been close to bradys record setting season of 50 td's. it took bradys perfect season* to break bens record of 13 stright wins and a perfect 13-0 record in a single season. (however his perfect start as a rookie will probably never be broken.

HometownGal
08-04-2008, 08:51 PM
what else has he done since being the youngest qb to win the sb? i know hes had atleast 1 of his games with a perfect passer rating. and his 5 td's in the first half vs. the browns vol.II last season is an nfl racord. just imagine, had he been allowed to (or needed) to throw the ball in the 2nd half ofr play the ravens in the finale he mightve had close to 40 td's.

if he were allowed to run up the score or have as many attempts (look at his td per attempt ratio) he woulda been close to bradys record setting season of 50 td's. it took bradys perfect season* to break bens record of 13 stright wins and a perfect 13-0 record in a single season. (however his perfect start as a rookie will probably never be broken.

Right on my Steelers brotha! :drink:

One thing I know for certain is that Brady Queer......ummm......Queen.......sorry.......Quinn will never make a sweat pimple on Ben's ass.

9-5
08-05-2008, 02:34 AM
Not only are you Browns fans delusional, you suffer from memory loss, too. :doh:

What has Ben done? In addition to what Tony posted, lemme see . . . (and I'll even go back a year for ya - aint I nice?) :chuckle:

Has 7 wins against the Browns. (would have had all 8, but he didn't play in the 11-13-05 game against you) :sofunny:

Has thrown for over 1,500 yards against the Browns poor excuse of a defense in 7 games. :toofunny:

Has thrown 11 TD's against that sorry secondary in 7 games. :laughing:

Rushed for 3 TD's against that pitiful DL. :rofl:

I know, I know - those stats don't guarantee him a HOF berth, but I thought it was worth mentioning. :tt02:
Who doesn't have 7 wins against us?

250 yards a game is pretty good, but against the secondaries we have had......it really isn't.

About 1.6 TD's a game. And, as someone pointed out, 5 came in one game.

And not even a half a rushing TD a game.

Your right, those stats don't guarantee him anything

Right on my Steelers brotha! :drink:

One thing I know for certain is that Brady Queer......ummm......Queen.......sorry.......Quinn will never make a sweat pimple on Ben's ass.
He won't have to. That's what Shaun Rodgers and Corey Williams are for.


24/7 it is...

:coffee:next
A55 might refer to a donkey, but not in the context you are using it in. And no, it doesn't make me sore, it gives me satisfaction knowing that I don't have to resort to swearing to get my point across.

tony hipchest
08-05-2008, 09:56 AM
it gives me satisfaction knowing that I don't have to resort to swearing to get my point across.

:cookie:

rediculous assed question

rediculous- absurd

assed- exibiting traits of stubborness or unwillingness to move or budge.

and all you see is a butt... :moon:

again, get your mind out of the gutter and just take a pass the next time you wanna put my words in their proper context. i know what im saying.

and you... well, you dont. you say the only thing ben has done since his sb victory is lead the league in interceptions.

when i say "quit talking out of your ass" i mean anus.

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-05-2008, 10:37 AM
Who doesn't have 7 wins against us?

250 yards a game is pretty good, but against the secondaries we have had......it really isn't.



Okay...you've convinced me....the Browns suck.:thumbsup:

revefsreleets
08-05-2008, 11:23 AM
And the secondary will be WORSE this year...welcome to lots of teams tossing the ball for over 300...