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OneForTheToe
07-31-2008, 01:05 PM
Ok, we are a little over two hours away from the trade deadline and nothing but rumor at the moment. I don't have a problem with the Pirates trading Bay. He will be gone after his contract is up and we will never win with the pitching we have on the roster and in the minors. However, unlike the Nady trade (which, honestly, I've warmed up too) we need at least one absolute major league pitcher or another team’s top prospect. The latest rumor I was reading had a three way deal between the Sox, Marlins and us, whereby the Marlins get Manny, the Sox get Jason and we get pitchers from the Marlins. I guess the hold up is that we wanted one of the Marlins’ top pitching prospects and they didn't want to give him up. I say good for us. Don't trade Jason unless they throw in one of the top three pitching prospects as well as other prospects. If they don't throw in one of those guys we should not go through with the deal. Other teams will not take the Pirates seriously in trader negotiations unless we prove we are willing to walk away.

Whatever happens or doesn't, if the Pirates ever do put a winning team on the field expect it to look very different than the one we presently have.

OneForTheToe
07-31-2008, 01:23 PM
Ok here is an update. Apparently it is now with the Rays involvrd in a possible trade.
Anybody know much about these guys?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=mlb_trade_deadline

Those on-again, off-again Jason Bay-to-Tampa Bay talks are back on, according to a source familiar with the discussions. The two sides have been so far apart that it appeared they'd given up on each other as of early Thursday afternoon. But the source said they've closed that gap somewhat and are still talking.

Tampa Bay has hinted its willing to structure a package around pitcher Jeff Niemann and shortstop prospect Reid Brignac, but the Pirates have been seeking one of their elite pitching prospects -- Wade Davis, David Price or Jeremy Hellickson.

stlrtruck
07-31-2008, 02:30 PM
Brignac they drafted out of HS and has been working his way up through the minors steadily. Not a power hitter but will be consistant getting on base. He's also a left handed bat.

Niemann was drafted out of Rice and he's a big boy (Randy Johnson type a little bigger). Power thrower, just hasn't been able to crack the Ray's rotation. He'll probably slide right into the Pirates rotation.

(Information provided by a Ray's fan at work)

OneForTheToe
07-31-2008, 03:00 PM
Thanks. It doesn't look like anything is going to happen. ESPN say the Mets have moved in on the Bay trade block in the last hour. Still, the deadline is over, so unless they are just waiting to announce, Jason is staying with the Buc, for now.

rbryan
07-31-2008, 03:32 PM
They said on ESPN that the Pirates held thier ground and demanded more in return, but then another clown said the Marlins demanded enough cash from the RedSox at the last minute to pay the majority of his remaining salary this year....lol

Who knows what nixed the deal, I'm glad Bay is still in the Burgh.

pittsburghp8baller
07-31-2008, 03:42 PM
[QUOTE=rbryan;417949 Who knows what nixed the deal, I'm glad Bay is still in the Burgh.[/QUOTE]

doesnt look that is the case.

rotoworld.com has posted that Red Sox still got Jason Bay, but sent Many to the Dodgers. It is unclear on who the Pirates got but speculation is that it is either Matt Kemp or Andre Either

pittsburghp8baller
07-31-2008, 03:43 PM
This is all according to SI.com and NESN

rbryan
07-31-2008, 03:49 PM
Wow, that sucks....I guess. In a way I almost feel happy for Bay though. He's always seemed like a stand up guy to me. He deserves a chance to play for a winner IMO. Good luck to him if thats true. As much as I hate the Patsies I still can't bring myself to be down on the Red Sox...due mostly to Francona. I graduated HS with him, played on the same team in Pony League. Red Sox nation doesn't deserve him.

pittsburghp8baller
07-31-2008, 03:52 PM
its official-

Dodgers get- Manny Ramirez
Red Sox get- Jason Bay
Pirates get- 4 Minor Leaguers

once their names are released ill post them and their minor league stats

pittsburghp8baller
07-31-2008, 03:53 PM
one of them is probably the Dodgers top prospect Andy LaRoche (yes Adam's brother, i think)

pittsburghp8baller
07-31-2008, 03:57 PM
Andy LaRoche
Craig Hansen
Bryan Morris
Brandon Moss

those are the four prospects that we got in the trade. a huge boost for us as at least 2 of those players can play right now with us

rbryan
07-31-2008, 03:58 PM
Thats funny, I saw LaRoche's name scrolling across the screen for the Dodgers the other day and my first thought was we unloaded our LaRoche and I missed it.....lol

CantStop85
07-31-2008, 04:06 PM
Certainly more promising than the Nady trade.

pittsburghp8baller
07-31-2008, 04:07 PM
Andy LaRoche- AAA in 39 games- .293 5 HR 28 RBI, has also seen some decent time in the majors

Craig Hansen- AAA 1-0 1.62 ERA 16 2/3 IP 5BB 17 K- if it was him they were talking about throws 97 MPH

Bryan Morris- High A SP- 2-4 3.20 ERA 81.1 IP 31 BB 72 K- 20 year old prospect for the dodgers

Brandon Moss- AAA Pawtucket 43 Gms .282 8 HR 30 RBI hit his first major league Home Run in japan at the beginning of the game

X-Terminator
07-31-2008, 04:41 PM
Andy LaRoche- AAA in 39 games- .293 5 HR 28 RBI, has also seen some decent time in the majors

Craig Hansen- AAA 1-0 1.62 ERA 16 2/3 IP 5BB 17 K- if it was him they were talking about throws 97 MPH

Bryan Morris- High A SP- 2-4 3.20 ERA 81.1 IP 31 BB 72 K- 20 year old prospect for the dodgers

Brandon Moss- AAA Pawtucket 43 Gms .282 8 HR 30 RBI hit his first major league Home Run in japan at the beginning of the game

Two former 1st-round picks from the Red Sox (Moss, Hansen) who are both major-league ready and the Dodgers' top prospect (LaRoche) and one of their top pitching prospects (Morris).

Solid deal for the Bucs here. Good job, Neal! :thumbsup:

The Red Sox, however, got completely hosed. Two 1st rounders, Manny AND $7 million cash for Jason Bay???

Black@Gold Forever32
07-31-2008, 05:39 PM
I do like these prospects better in this trade....Hopefully they pan out.....I just want the Buccos to win 81 games again and then go from there....500 would be nice to see...lol

Tankus_Maximus
07-31-2008, 09:32 PM
Morris is coming off Tommy John surgery. I had high hopes for Andy LaRoche, but just like every other "cant miss" Dodger-prospect (see: Ashley, Billy or Garcia, Karim or Brock, Greg) it just didn't pan out. Hopefully for the Bucs, Andy will blossom like Paul Konerko did once he left the Blue-crew.

Bienvenidos Manny!!!

tony hipchest
07-31-2008, 09:50 PM
this is great! now we got 4 more players to develop for the yankees and red sox!

rbryan
07-31-2008, 10:16 PM
No Doubt, if any of these guys pan out they're outa here sooner or later. Whats the over under on McClouth getting dealt?? aka the last semblence of any talent we have left.

X-Terminator
07-31-2008, 11:12 PM
No Doubt, if any of these guys pan out they're outa here sooner or later. Whats the over under on McClouth getting dealt?? aka the last semblence of any talent we have left.

Not going to happen any time soon. The Pirates pretty much own him for the next 4 seasons.

OneForTheToe
07-31-2008, 11:21 PM
I do like these prospects better in this trade....Hopefully they pan out.....I just want the Buccos to win 81 games again and then go from there....500 would be nice to see...lol


Well, we won't likely see that at the very least for two seasons. You have to expect the Pirates might be worse next season with two quality bats, and a quality middles reliever out of the line-up from this season. However, they did do a pretty decent job of restocking talent. And that is the first step if they truly are to rebuild.

tony hipchest
07-31-2008, 11:45 PM
Well, we won't likely see that at the very least for two seasons. You have to expect the Pirates might be worse next season with two quality bats, and a quality middles reliever out of the line-up from this season. However, they did do a pretty decent job of restocking talent. And that is the first step if they truly are to rebuild.SSDY

same shit different year

are the pirates really trying to rebuild?

whats the point of rebuilding a single wide mobile home in a trailer park when you live in "tornado alley"?

the pirates draft at the top every year for the past 15 years, yet they constantly trade their best players for prospects of teams who are constantly drafting at the bottom year in and year out.

i get sick every time i see wakefield pitch, or leyland in the world series. im disgusted when i see a. ramirez or b. bonds in the hunt. i cant believe jason kendall has been one of our best players in a decade and a half.

no wonder im a disgruntled, dropout baseball fan.

:poop:

OneForTheToe
08-01-2008, 12:36 AM
SSDY

same shit different year

are the pirates really trying to rebuild?

whats the point of rebuilding a single wide mobile home in a trailer park when you live in "tornado alley"?

the pirates draft at the top every year for the past 15 years, yet they constantly trade their best players for prospects of teams who are constantly drafting at the bottom year in and year out.

i get sick every time i see wakefield pitch, or leyland in the world series. im disgusted when i see a. ramirez or b. bonds in the hunt. i cant believe jason kendall has been one of our best players in a decade and a half.

no wonder im a disgruntled, dropout baseball fan.

:poop:

I agree .... but the model of trading away players entering into their large contract years for young prospects (while finding your own as well) can work in MLB. The Marlins are the best example of how you can have some success. Of course, only the big market teams can compete year in and year out, but this model does allow for small market teams to make runs. The problem is that the Pirates have been complete failures at anything approaching copying the Marlins success in both getting value for their trades and developing their own talent.

Will this new regime be better? I don't have much confidence without a change in ownership, but trading Bay and Nady for young prospects would be part of any successful plan to rebuild this team.

OneForTheToe
08-01-2008, 01:12 AM
For what it is worth Peter Gammons said the Pirates got the best deal of the three teams. I can only hope that will prove true in a few years. I didn't even follow the Pirates for about 5 years because I became so disgusted with their front office/owner. Now I am back, and if they screw this up this time I’m going disgruntled like tony hipchest. My summers will indeed be filled with Pittsburgh passion games.

verks36
08-01-2008, 02:01 AM
As many have said in this thread I kinda lost interest in baseball because the pirates are so bad. Which is kinda sad but so many losing season i just can bare to put emotion into a team that loses and seems like they dont want to win like the pirates.

Seriously I am sick of this shit. I have no trust at all in the pirates front office. I dont care how good are propects we got in the trade are because they will be traded away just like jason bay. The pirates are basically like the MLB farm team. When will we make a run when is it not a rebuilding year.

The sad thing is the future doesnt even look so bright. Right now we are in the bottom and could drop even farther. Who on the pirates team is the next star? Who is going to devolp into the pirates number one pitcher. When will we be on the other end of these trades where we give away minor leaguers while in return we get the star player?

end of rant

X-Terminator
08-01-2008, 06:12 AM
As many have said in this thread I kinda lost interest in baseball because the pirates are so bad. Which is kinda sad but so many losing season i just can bare to put emotion into a team that loses and seems like they dont want to win like the pirates.

Seriously I am sick of this shit. I have no trust at all in the pirates front office. I dont care how good are propects we got in the trade are because they will be traded away just like jason bay. The pirates are basically like the MLB farm team. When will we make a run when is it not a rebuilding year.

The sad thing is the future doesnt even look so bright. Right now we are in the bottom and could drop even farther. Who on the pirates team is the next star? Who is going to devolp into the pirates number one pitcher. When will we be on the other end of these trades where we give away minor leaguers while in return we get the star player?

end of rant

Um, you ever hear of Nate McLouth? I heard he's pretty good. That Paul Maholm guy isn't too bad either.

The Pirates still have plenty of talent, both at the major-league level and at AAA that is major-league ready. The problem is that the former regime did such a piss-poor job evaluating and drafting quality players for their minor league system at ALL levels that the new regime has had to come in and fix the mess. And unfortunately, that meant Bay, Nady and Marte had to go. It really doesn't have much to do with ownership this time - the Pirates did not make these trades to save money. I admit I got pretty upset when Nady and Marte were traded, but after settling down and thinking, I understand the reasoning behind the moves. I'm willing to give Huntington a chance - the guy has a good track record of rebuilding a franchise (Cleveland), so he's earned that at least.

X-Terminator
08-01-2008, 05:07 PM
And wouldn't you know that the Bucs promptly go and shut out the Cubs in Jeff Karstens' debut. LaRoche the Younger also chipped in with a hit and a run scored. Unbelievable that it took a Yankees castoff for the Bucs to finally get a win over the Cubs in Wrigley this season.