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Stlrs4Life
08-08-2008, 07:10 AM
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_581739.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_581739.html)

Steelers Mahan defends starting spot
By Scott Brown
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Friday, August 8, 2008

Justin Hartwig had a small camera crew shadowing him at training camp last week. One of the newest Steelers players is the subject of what he and a production company hope becomes a documentary about life as an NFL player.

"I figured either way it would be a good idea to have footage for years down the road that my kids could look at some day," Hartwig said.

The people who have filmed him for more than a year aren't the only ones watching Hartwig closely.

The seventh-year veteran is locked into the Steelers' most significant training camp competition, one that takes center stage today when the Philadelphia Eagles visit Heinz Field for a 7:30 p.m. preseason game.

Hartwig is trying to unseat incumbent Sean Mahan at a position that fell well short of the standard of excellence established by past Steelers centers such as Mike Webster, Dermontti Dawson and Jeff Hartings.

Mahan, who started every game at center last season for the Steelers, will play with the first-team offense against the Eagles. Hartwig, the team's biggest free-agent signing this offseason, will work with the starters Thursday, when the Steelers play the Buffalo Bills in Toronto.

"I think that will give us more of an indication of (how) this thing is going to go," Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said of the first two preseason games. "I think both guys have shown some good things thus far in camp."

Mahan and Hartwig said the coaches haven't told them much about the competition that Tomlin called "hotly contested."

What doesn't have to be said is that the Steelers need better play from the center position this season.

The 6-foot-3, 301-pound Mahan was physically overpowered at times in 2007, and his struggles contributed to quarterback Ben Roethlisberger getting sacked 47 times in 15 regular-season games.

"There were good things and bad things, as always," Mahan said of his play last season.

Mahan, who signed with the Steelers in March 2007, became a lightning rod for fan criticism last season, but offensive line coach Larry Zierlein said he played better than people think.

"We're not listening to the fans," Zierlein said. "Sean did fine for us last year."

Mahan said he worked on improving his strength as well as polishing his blocking techniques during the offseason.

Hartwig, for his part, said he hasn't felt this good physically since he helped anchor the Tennessee Titans' offensive line from 2003-05 before signing with the Carolina Panthers in 2006.

He battled groin and hip injuries his first season in Carolina. The 6-4, 312-pounder said he spent so much time rehabilitating prior to last season that he wasn't nearly as strong as he had been in previous years.

Hartwig still started 15 games for the Panthers in 2007, but Carolina released him after the season, in part because it had taken highly touted center Ryan Khalil in the second round of the 2007 NFL Draft.

"I feel like I've got my size and my strength back right now because I've had a whole offseason to get stronger," Hartwig said. "My body feels good right now, and that is key for me."

HometownGal
08-08-2008, 07:15 AM
Mahan had some huge shoes to fill replacing Hartings at C and I think it has been well established that Mahan is no Jeff Hartings. However, Mahan became the scapegoat for that OL, imho. The entire line was responsible for most of Ben's sacks due to their overall poor play as a unit, not just Mahan, though he took the brunt of the criticism. Obviously Zierlein sees in him what some fans don't and that is why he is an NFL coach and we're just spectators.

Stlrs4Life
08-08-2008, 07:17 AM
So true, but still think Hartwig is better at it, being he is a natural C. Mahan is a natural G.

HometownGal
08-08-2008, 07:27 AM
So true, but still think Hartwig is better at it, being he is a natural C. Mahan is a natural G.

Oh I know Mahan is a natural G and I thought quite possibly, the Steelers would utilize his G experience this season, but they obviously have other plans for him. We'll have a chance to watch both of them and may the best man win! :drink:

SteelMember
08-08-2008, 07:50 AM
So true, but still think Hartwig is better at it, being he is a natural C. Mahan is a natural G.

I believe Hartwig also started as a guard.

Mahan is smaller. There's no denying that. Picking up a nose tackle that demands a double team is going to be a problem for anyone who isn't getting help. Having poor tackle play just compounds the problem if the guards are looking outside even though their assignment my be to help chip inside.imo

GBMelBlount
08-08-2008, 08:03 AM
Mahan said he worked on improving his strength as well as polishing his blocking techniques during the offseason.

I hope he didn't just "work on" improving his strength, but actually DID improve it. One of his biggest problems is being overpowered.

DACEB
08-08-2008, 08:51 AM
I know that is one position I will be watching closely tonight.

vrabinec
08-08-2008, 09:04 AM
Mahan has looked fine in practice, but it looks like he already lost 10 pounds between the first practice and the last one. If he's dropping a couple pounds a week, he'll be back down to 270 which is about where he ended up last year by mid-season. I don't know how he's gonna do it, but if he really wants to compete for the starting job, he needs to find some way to keep the weight on.

revefsreleets
08-08-2008, 09:38 AM
The way I see it, Hartwig was supposed to be an upgrade, but Mahan beats him out, then the best guy won the starting spot. Hartwig is bigger and stronger, though, so...

I can't see us opening againstHouston with Mahan at C. Just can't see that happening...

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-08-2008, 09:59 AM
I honestly hope Mahan doesnt beat out Hartwig. In that case it should mean Hartwig is flawed or not back to any form. The Buccaneer fans always complained about Mahan's lack of strength and inability to handle the bigger DT's that they faced......and we now have the same issue.

Mahan is good at getting angles and getting to the 2nd level, but not in handling the big NT's we are gonna see more of. If neither of these guys is the answer, its gonna be time to draft Alex Mack from Cal next season.

fansince'76
08-08-2008, 10:05 AM
I think it'll help to not have a disgruntled LG who has mentally checked out lining up next to whomever wins the job this year as well.

Edman
08-08-2008, 10:06 AM
Tomlin showing loyalty to his pet Free Agent project again. Mahan is not a True Center.

Dino 6 Rings
08-08-2008, 10:09 AM
Hey, maybe Big Snack can learn to snap the ball. Center issues solved.

fansince'76
08-08-2008, 10:10 AM
Mahan, who started every game at center last season for the Steelers, will play with the first-team offense against the Eagles. Hartwig, the team's biggest free-agent signing this offseason, will work with the starters Thursday, when the Steelers play the Buffalo Bills in Toronto.

This tells me it's nobody's job at the moment.

Galax Steeler
08-08-2008, 10:13 AM
Hey, maybe Big Snack can learn to snap the ball. Center issues solved.

He would defenitly have the size to play the position why not give it a try.:popcorn:

SteelCityMan786
08-08-2008, 10:29 AM
So true, but still think Hartwig is better at it, being he is a natural C. Mahan is a natural G.

Some cases I wonder why Coach Z and Coach Tomlin didn't think about that.

19ward86
08-08-2008, 11:10 AM
Hopefully he is stronger, that is all i can say.

SteelMember
08-08-2008, 11:15 AM
Hey, maybe Big Snack can learn to snap the ball. Center issues solved.
He would defenitly have the size to play the position why not give it a try.:popcorn:
I can't see anything squeezing through those legs. :chuckle:

xfl2001fan
08-08-2008, 11:21 AM
I can't see anything squeezing through those legs. :chuckle:

As big as he is, I'm sure his turds are the size of a football, if he can squeeze those out, he'd be fine as a center! Then again, Ben would need to wear some special gloves to be sure he's getting what he thinks he is. LOL

Steely McSmash
08-08-2008, 11:33 AM
I can't see anything squeezing through those legs. :chuckle:


My thoughts exactly. His gut may be in the way as well.

HometownGal
08-08-2008, 11:41 AM
Some cases I wonder why Coach Z and Coach Tomlin didn't think about that.

Probably because they see something in Mahan's abilities as a C that the fans (not you) are too blinded by their scapegoatism to see. I watched the guy in TC last season and he was a strong as an ox - even got Big Snack pissed off because he couldn't get by Mahan. Whoever gets the starting C position is fine by me - I trust in Tomlin's and Zierlein's judgment.

DACEB
08-08-2008, 01:21 PM
Mahan has looked fine in practice, but it looks like he already lost 10 pounds between the first practice and the last one. If he's dropping a couple pounds a week, he'll be back down to 270 which is about where he ended up last year by mid-season. I don't know how he's gonna do it, but if he really wants to compete for the starting job, he needs to find some way to keep the weight on.

I knew he lost weight last year but I didn't realize it is a constant issue for him to keep weight on. That's a big problem, 270 may cut it in college but not in the pro's.

Elvis
08-08-2008, 01:42 PM
Tonight, we get our first look at our offensive line of '08 and I for one am glad of it. I know time goes by fast enough without wishing season to season that the next season will hurry up and get here, but man when football season gets nearer and nearer, my heart beats faster and faster... I Am Just Ready For Some Football Ladies and Gents.. Lets Get This Thing Started!!!!
:tt02::tt02::tt02:

Davison_K
08-08-2008, 04:39 PM
I honestly don't care who the 5 guys are on the Oline as long as the 5 guys help keep Ben off his back.

If Mahan really has improved great! I am happy that he wasn't a wasted signing. If he wasn't then I hope to god that Hartwig is better than Mahan was last season.

As for the tackle competition and the competition for the LG spot... I really just hope the best 5 guys are out on the field to help Ben once and for all shut up the doubters.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-08-2008, 05:34 PM
Probably because they see something in Mahan's abilities as a C that the fans (not you) are too blinded by their scapegoatism to see..........- I trust in Tomlin's and Zierlein's judgment.

HTG, I hope you are not coining the word "scapegoatism" with negative connotations.....rather, I hope you keep it in the same category as "homerism"..:wink02:

So far it looks like that judgement you trust is paying $7mil to a backup RT, recruited a utility O lineman cast-off from Tampa to be the starter and alienating an All-pro NT and team leader(who is arguably overweight).

I admire blind faith.....until it gets people to a compound in Waco saying "I trust this Koresh guy"

Go Steelers!!! Alex Mack or bust for 09!!

Preacher
08-08-2008, 05:43 PM
HTG, I hope you are not coining the word "scapegoatism" with negative connotations.....rather, I hope you keep it in the same category as "homerism"..:wink02:

So far it looks like that judgement you trust is paying $7mil to a backup RT, recruited a utility O lineman cast-off from Tampa to be the starter and alienating an All-pro NT and team leader(who is arguably overweight).

I admire blind faith.....until it gets people to a compound in Waco saying "I trust this Koresh guy"

Go Steelers!!! Alex Mack or bust for 09!!

Somehow we fail to remember that the people who pull the trigger in these deals are also the ones behind us winning the SB and also the ones behind us being competitive since 93.

Yeah, I think they have deserved a little more trust than the Dan Snyder's and the Al Davis' of the world.

HometownGal
08-08-2008, 05:49 PM
HTG, I hope you are not coining the word "scapegoatism" with negative connotations.....rather, I hope you keep it in the same category as "homerism"..:wink02:

So far it looks like that judgement you trust is paying $7mil to a backup RT, recruited a utility O lineman cast-off from Tampa to be the starter and alienating an All-pro NT and team leader(who is arguably overweight).

I admire blind faith.....until it gets people to a compound in Waco saying "I trust this Koresh guy"

Go Steelers!!! Alex Mack or bust for 09!!

Quite honestly, El Gonzo, I'd much rather read "homerism" posts than some of what I feel are unjust "negative connotations". Steelers fans for decades have chosen their scapegoat of the year and last year, it happened to be Mahan imho. Do I feel he played up to snuff? No, I don't, but I don't feel he deserves all of the unfair blame he received for Ben's sacks and the poor play overall of the entire OL. I also take into account that Mahan is a natural G and not every OLman can play multiple positions on the line.

I stand by what I posted earlier - I completely trust the judgment of Tomlin and Zierlein and all of the other Steelers coaches. There's a reason they are in the positions they are in and we are "Monday morning QB'ing" on a BB. :wink02:

Preacher
08-08-2008, 05:55 PM
Wait for it..........













Wait for it...............












http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w190/ursiform/scapegoat.jpg

Havik
08-08-2008, 10:51 PM
I hope Doug Legursky pans out. He has great size and strength, and played very well in college, even against teams like OSU. I hate being stuck with bums like Mahan and Hartwig. It doesn't get much worse than that.

BlastFurnace
08-08-2008, 11:10 PM
I hope Doug Legursky pans out. He has great size and strength, and played very well in college, even against teams like OSU. I hate being stuck with bums like Mahan and Hartwig. It doesn't get much worse than that.

Legursky is gone already

Edman
08-08-2008, 11:31 PM
I thought Mahan and the O-Line did great tonight.

If I could spot any kind of weakness, it was Marvel Smith. Ben came rather close to getting creamed on his first pass.

tony hipchest
08-09-2008, 12:14 AM
I thought Mahan and the O-Line did great tonight.

If I could spot any kind of weakness, it was Marvel Smith. Ben came rather close to getting creamed on his first pass.so if youre playing chess, even if youre the best at playing chess in the world, and a pawn takes your pawn, is it a sign of weakness or just a part of playing the game?

steeltheone
08-09-2008, 03:06 AM
Tomlin showing loyalty to his pet Free Agent project again. Mahan is not a True Center.

Hit the nail on the head!

Preacher
08-09-2008, 03:55 AM
Hit the nail on the head!

Really?

Cause what I saw tonight... (and I just re-watched it, paying SPECIFIC attention to the center),

Mahan didn't get worked once. There was a couple times he didn't get the push we would have wanted. But he held his own and/or got a good push every time.

DACEB
08-09-2008, 09:02 AM
Really?

Cause what I saw tonight... (and I just re-watched it, paying SPECIFIC attention to the center),

Mahan didn't get worked once. There was a couple times he didn't get the push we would have wanted. But he held his own and/or got a good push every time.

I actually have to agree.:doh:

It's only a small sample... but, Mahan outperformed Hartwig IMO. We'll see as the preseason goes on, but if this is a weight issue with Mahan.... well... HTG can you get him some HGH.:wink02:

I thought Stapleton looked really good on the field as well, I'd like to see him against some stiffer competition.

Mosca
08-09-2008, 09:15 AM
I thought Mahan and the O-Line did great tonight.

If I could spot any kind of weakness, it was Marvel Smith. Ben came rather close to getting creamed on his first pass.

I only saw the first two series (I had to go work at the church picnic at 8:30), but I thought Smith did a nice job of taking his guy way outside on that play.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-09-2008, 10:00 AM
Quite honestly, El Gonzo, I'd much rather read "homerism" posts than some of what I feel are unjust "negative connotations". . :wink02:

I can agree with that, as long as the homer point of view has some kind of objectivity.

I'm honestly objective and dont place the entire problem from last season on Mahan, but my analysis of his play honestly puts him in the bottom quarter of centers in the league.....we can do better.

He played fine last night in the limited action, but a 4-3 plays to his strengths at C while a 3-4 plays to his game at G. He isnt strong playing with a man over him.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-09-2008, 10:02 AM
Legursky is gone already

Legursky was on the field playing with the 3rd string last night. I think he was wearing #64.

rbryan
08-09-2008, 11:52 AM
It looks to me that for all the talk about coming out throwing this year, theres no substitute for running it down the other teams throat. The OL pushed the Iggles all over the place in the limited action we saw. It sets up nicley for Ben to cross them up and come out throwing a little more in week 3.

Stlrs4Life
08-09-2008, 12:02 PM
Really?

Cause what I saw tonight... (and I just re-watched it, paying SPECIFIC attention to the center),

Mahan didn't get worked once. There was a couple times he didn't get the push we would have wanted. But he held his own and/or got a good push every time.


I agree. Mahan actually looked OK last night.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-09-2008, 12:23 PM
I agree. Mahan actually looked OK last night.

I pvr'ed the game and will watch again, but for the most part saw that in the 2 series the starters had, Mahan never faced a NT because of the 4-3 defense and in most cases was helping out with either Simmons or Kemo on the DT's.

Tampa Bay fans used to say that Mahan was a better C than Guard, because he was always getting dominated by bigger DT's since the Panthers, Saints, Falcons all played 4-3's back then.

He never got a chance to show his improved strength against anybody 1-on 1 last night from what I can remember.

The Duke
08-09-2008, 01:41 PM
I pvr'ed the game and will watch again, but for the most part saw that in the 2 series the starters had, Mahan never faced a NT because of the 4-3 defense and in most cases was helping out with either Simmons or Kemo on the DT's.


that's true. but, he's not gonna face a true NT in preseason, the bills don't have one as far as I know. and after that game the decision at center should be set

a game against the williams duo at minnesota could be a good test, for either center

xfl2001fan
08-09-2008, 02:05 PM
that's true. but, he's not gonna face a true NT in preseason, the bills don't have one as far as I know. and after that game the decision at center should be set

a game against the williams duo at minnesota could be a good test, for either center

Didn't Buffalo get either Stroud or Henderson in the offseason? I thought they had gotten one of them.

lilyoder6
08-09-2008, 02:25 PM
yes the bills got stroud i beleieve.. so they did pick up a big dt and could be a good test 4 our centercenters

The Duke
08-09-2008, 02:31 PM
oh yeah, stroud. as long as he's healthy he's good. but he's had trouble with that lately

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-09-2008, 04:07 PM
that's true. but, he's not gonna face a true NT in preseason, the bills don't have one as far as I know. and after that game the decision at center should be set

a game against the williams duo at minnesota could be a good test, for either center

Yeah, I'm just reading the Mahan supporters saying he didnt get blown up or he didnt get worked....therefore drawing some kind of conclusion that he played well. I dont think either he or Hartwig were tested in that game.

Gotta break down some tape to see if either was better than the other....I have a feeling that more practice sessions will decide this battle than sporadic game action.

Preacher
08-09-2008, 06:52 PM
I pvr'ed the game and will watch again, but for the most part saw that in the 2 series the starters had, Mahan never faced a NT because of the 4-3 defense and in most cases was helping out with either Simmons or Kemo on the DT's.

Tampa Bay fans used to say that Mahan was a better C than Guard, because he was always getting dominated by bigger DT's since the Panthers, Saints, Falcons all played 4-3's back then.

He never got a chance to show his improved strength against anybody 1-on 1 last night from what I can remember.

He DID take on a number of 1 on 1 blocks however.

BTW. I am not a Mahan supporter. I just don't like him being scapegoated. Last night. I looked specifically at that issue to see what happened to him. He took people on, 1 on 1 many times... and held his own.


Don't forget... Mahan was actually pretty decent the first half of last year.

It was the second half that was the problem (which is what makes me... and probably you, and others worry about him being able to keep on the weight).

If that is true, then play him the first half of the season, and sit him for Hartwig the second half.

billybob
08-09-2008, 07:03 PM
I honestly don't care who the 5 guys are on the Oline as long as the 5 guys help keep Ben off his back.

If Mahan really has improved great! I am happy that he wasn't a wasted signing. If he wasn't then I hope to god that Hartwig is better than Mahan was last season.

As for the tackle competition and the competition for the LG spot... I really just hope the best 5 guys are out on the field to help Ben once and for all shut up the doubters.

The"Mach 5"

Lord Stiller
08-11-2008, 06:53 PM
He DID take on a number of 1 on 1 blocks however.

BTW. I am not a Mahan supporter. I just don't like him being scapegoated. Last night. I looked specifically at that issue to see what happened to him. He took people on, 1 on 1 many times... and held his own.


Don't forget... Mahan was actually pretty decent the first half of last year.

It was the second half that was the problem (which is what makes me... and probably you, and others worry about him being able to keep on the weight).

If that is true, then play him the first half of the season, and sit him for Hartwig the second half.

you are the biggest Mahan supporter here.

Mahan did not play 'pretty decent' the first half last year. He sucked

Hartwig played well on Friday and was supposed to start Thursday but has a sore knee. Mahan was okay but not tested much.

Hartwig is much better than Mahan and will be our starter this season if healthy. dont fool yourself

Preacher
08-11-2008, 07:17 PM
you are the biggest Mahan supporter here.

Mahan did not play 'pretty decent' the first half last year. He sucked

Hartwig played well on Friday and was supposed to start Thursday but has a sore knee. Mahan was okay but not tested much.

Hartwig is much better than Mahan and will be our starter this season if healthy. dont fool yourself

:rolleyes:

Sure... Whatever you say.

Did I hear right that you are being offered the OL coaching position as well?

xfl2001fan
08-11-2008, 07:19 PM
:rolleyes:

Sure... Whatever you say.

Did I hear right that you are being offered the OL coaching position as well?

I heard he was being groomed for the OC job next season.

Lord Stiller
08-11-2008, 08:11 PM
I heard he was being groomed for the OC job next season.

I heard you are a pathetic Brownies fan:poop: who posts on a Steelers message board

Lord Stiller
08-11-2008, 08:12 PM
:rolleyes:

Sure... Whatever you say.

Did I hear right that you are being offered the OL coaching position as well?

Oh but you are?

:blah::blah::blah:

xfl2001fan
08-11-2008, 08:23 PM
I heard you are a pathetic Brownies fan:poop: who posts on a Steelers message board

What's pathetic about being a diehard fan? Seriously. My team has had some pathetic history recently, but that doesn't make me pathetic. I think it makes me that much more admirable that I can cheer on my team through the good times and the especially the bad.

I'm not sure how old you are, but unless you are significantly older than me, I doubt that you really know what it means to cheer on a pathetic football team. I've known it for years.

No sarcasm, no jibes here...serious discussion. You can take it how you want it, but it changes nothing. I apologize if my little jest touched a nerve. Wasn't meant to hurt your feelings.

Lord Stiller
08-11-2008, 08:25 PM
What's pathetic about being a diehard fan? Seriously. My team has had some pathetic history recently, but that doesn't make me pathetic. I think it makes me that much more admirable that I can cheer on my team through the good times and the especially the bad.

I'm not sure how old you are, but unless you are significantly older than me, I doubt that you really know what it means to cheer on a pathetic football team. I've known it for years.

No sarcasm, no jibes here...serious discussion. You can take it how you want it, but it changes nothing. I apologize if my little jest touched a nerve. Wasn't meant to hurt your feelings.

you are pathetic because you post here. this site is for Steelers fans, nobody cares about anything you post

stfu, and leave

xfl2001fan
08-11-2008, 08:29 PM
you are pathetic because you post here. this site is for Steelers fans, nobody cares about anything you post

stfu, and leave

Top right corner of your screen:

Why register with the Steelers Fever Forums?
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It's free and it's quick.
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Not sure what's intelligent or friendly about your current conversation.

I'll say it again, I apologize for my jest. I didn't realize it would touch a nerve. That being said, I will continue to post on this site and I won't leave of my own volition. You may not like my posts, but I have received positive feedback from many members of this site, most of whom are Steelers fans. Your implied cursing at me changes nothing.

lilyoder6
08-11-2008, 08:47 PM
:o it says that in the corner? where where?? j/k..

it's a friendly conversation w/ some hars verbs

xfl2001fan
08-11-2008, 08:51 PM
:o it says that in the corner? where where?? j/k..

it's a friendly conversation w/ some hars verbs

Pathetic isn't a verb. It's an adjective. :flap:

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-11-2008, 11:48 PM
OK, I reviewed the first half again and Mahan did take on Patterson and Bunkley farily well as they did put a DT over him periodically. He had more of a problem with Bunkley and often got some secondary help from a free guard.

Honestly Mahan played pretty well, but didnt dominate either. I also have a problem with the type of leverage he tries to get. Mahan comes out and leans on defenders like he is trying to push a car that ran out of gas. His stance is too narrow and can be moved laterally by defenders.

Kemoateu on the other hand creates an explosive initial collision and then keeps his feet wide and crawls forward like a CAT Bulldozer. GREAT WIDE BASE and TECHNIQUE!!

Hartwig missed a block badly, but seems naturally bigger and thicker in the legs. He also maintains good leg drive without extending too far forward. Hartwig had a couple nice pulls to the left on a couple runs....one of which sprang Mendenhall nicely.

Hartwig looked better, but was playing mostly against the #2's. I'd say round one in the battle of the C's is a split decision to Hartwig.....but definately needs more of a look starting with this thursday.

tony hipchest
08-12-2008, 12:15 AM
contrary to the likes of "mach5's" belief , this (^^^^) is the type of insight that makes this board so great.

thanks for the double take gonzo. i now wish i had recorded the game, so i could go back and SEE what you are describing. (but i take your word for it). :cheers:

Preacher
08-12-2008, 12:38 AM
OK, I reviewed the first half again and Mahan did take on Patterson and Bunkley farily well as they did put a DT over him periodically. He had more of a problem with Bunkley and often got some secondary help from a free guard.

Honestly Mahan played pretty well, but didnt dominate either. I also have a problem with the type of leverage he tries to get. Mahan comes out and leans on defenders like he is trying to push a car that ran out of gas. His stance is too narrow and can be moved laterally by defenders.

Kemoateu on the other hand creates an explosive initial collision and then keeps his feet wide and crawls forward like a CAT Bulldozer. GREAT WIDE BASE and TECHNIQUE!!

Hartwig missed a block badly, but seems naturally bigger and thicker in the legs. He also maintains good leg drive without extending too far forward. Hartwig had a couple nice pulls to the left on a couple runs....one of which sprang Mendenhall nicely.

Hartwig looked better, but was playing mostly against the #2's. I'd say round one in the battle of the C's is a split decision to Hartwig.....but definately needs more of a look starting with this thursday.

El Gonz---

That is about all I was saying. He took care of things.. didn't look beautiful, but didn't get worked either. Hartwig got worked once... but I chalk that up to not being in this system for a while.

As you say (and I agree), this thursday will tell us more.

I don't care WHO starts... I just shake my head at the scapegoating that happens.

Actually, I would rather have Mahan as a backup-- since he has weight loss problems. It would be nice to see him be able to step up when necessary... and not worry about our Center position anymore.

The Duke
08-12-2008, 01:22 AM
Actually, I would rather have Mahan as a backup-- since he has weight loss problems. It would be nice to see him be able to step up when necessary... and not worry about our Center position anymore.

has his weight loss been confirmed as a problem or is that something that happened just last year

the reason I prefer mahan as a backup is he can play both guard and center. flexibility, something tomlin seems to be emphasizing as of late. trai essex is doing the same, the reason I want to see him do well in preaseason, and probably resigned next year

paw-n-maul-u
08-12-2008, 01:50 AM
Mahan and starks both backups ... jesus ... that might be the top two highest paid backup offensive linemen in the league this year

Lord Stiller
08-12-2008, 06:46 AM
El Gonz---

That is about all I was saying. He took care of things.. didn't look beautiful, but didn't get worked either. Hartwig got worked once... but I chalk that up to not being in this system for a while.

As you say (and I agree), this thursday will tell us more.

I don't care WHO starts... I just shake my head at the scapegoating that happens.

Actually, I would rather have Mahan as a backup-- since he has weight loss problems. It would be nice to see him be able to step up when necessary... and not worry about our Center position anymore.

He just confirmed exactly what i said. Mahan looked okay but Hartwig was clearly better and will be our starter if healthy

You got your panties in a bunch for nothing

Lord Stiller
08-12-2008, 06:47 AM
has his weight loss been confirmed as a problem or is that something that happened just last year

the reason I prefer mahan as a backup is he can play both guard and center. flexibility, something tomlin seems to be emphasizing as of late. trai essex is doing the same, the reason I want to see him do well in preaseason, and probably resigned next year

I think Preacher is making stuff up

Mahan gained a lot of weight since last season on purpose so he won't get thrown around like a rag-doll again. He has no reason to lose weight, Preacher is in lulu land

xfl2001fan
08-12-2008, 07:32 AM
I think Preacher is making stuff up

Mahan gained a lot of weight since last season on purpose so he won't get thrown around like a rag-doll again. He has no reason to lose weight, Preacher is in lulu land

Wasn't he the lineman that couldn't keep the weight on? I thought I had read up somewhere on here that he truly did have a weight "loss" problem. Personal attacks are likely to get you banned. This isn't the Blast Furnace and Preacher is a well respected member on here. You might want to be careful.

HometownGal
08-12-2008, 07:43 AM
Personal attacks are likely to get you banned. This isn't the Blast Furnace and Preacher is a well respected member on here. You might want to be careful.

Me thinks you had better read our board COC, oh little Browns goof.

[I]If you're not a Moderator, don't feel compelled to act like one

I don't view Lord Stiller's post to Preacher as a personal attack and I'm sure Preacher won't either. If he does, trust me - he can defend himself very well.

xfl2001fan
08-12-2008, 07:52 AM
Me thinks you had better read our board COC, oh little Browns goof.

I don't view Lord Stiller's post to Preacher as a personal attack and I'm sure Preacher won't either. If he does, trust me - he can defend himself very well.

Having not explored (yet) every facet of this site, where would I find the COC? What does COC mean...because I'm military and our acronyms are many, varied and sometimes duplicated (with varied meanings) based on which shop you are in and what discussion. I see COC and think Chain of Command.

I only mentioned it to this guy (in as friendly a tone as I could make myself talk with him) because the impression I get of him is that he comes across as very angry with his comments. Directed at me...to be expected. I'm a fan of the enemy...which makes me the enemy. No worries. Was a bit shocked to see him direct his comments as harshly as he did at Preacher.

Lord Stiller
08-12-2008, 07:53 AM
Wasn't he the lineman that couldn't keep the weight on? I thought I had read up somewhere on here that he truly did have a weight "loss" problem .

He was underweight last season. He gained a lot of weight in the offseason and is over 300 lbs now.

I'm not sure what weight-loss problems you all are talking about. I guess thet disappeared :noidea:


Personal attacks are likely to get you banned. This isn't the Blast Furnace and Preacher is a well respected member on here. You might want to be careful.

I didn't personal attack him, quit making stuff up :poop: fan

Lord Stiller
08-12-2008, 07:54 AM
Me thinks you had better read our board COC, oh little Browns goof.



I don't view Lord Stiller's post to Preacher as a personal attack and I'm sure Preacher won't either. If he does, trust me - he can defend himself very well.

thanks for the help

Browns fans are always making stuff up like how they have a good team, will beat the Steelers, etc :blah::blah:

HometownGal
08-12-2008, 07:58 AM
Having not explored (yet) every facet of this site, where would I find the COC? What does COC mean...because I'm military and our acronyms are many, varied and sometimes duplicated (with varied meanings) based on which shop you are in and what discussion. I see COC and think Chain of Command.

I only mentioned it to this guy (in as friendly a tone as I could make myself talk with him) because the impression I get of him is that he comes across as very angry with his comments. Directed at me...to be expected. I'm a fan of the enemy...which makes me the enemy. No worries. Was a bit shocked to see him direct his comments as harshly as he did at Preacher.

Here is a link to our Board Code of Conduct (COC):

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=354

Everyone has their own style of posting, xfl, you and I included. If Gary, Mike or I feel that someone is deliberately and unfairly attacking someone, you can rest assured the member will be dealt with. I just don't see the personal attack in Lord Stiller's post above. :noidea:

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-12-2008, 09:54 AM
He just confirmed exactly what i said. Mahan looked okay but Hartwig was clearly better and will be our starter if healthy

You got your panties in a bunch for nothing

I wouldnt say Hartwig was "clearly" better. He actually had a really bad base on one play and got tossed around like a freshman, but for the most part he maintains a strong, solid wide stance and strong base.

Mahan seems to be leaning really far forward and letting his feet get narrow,, to try and get leverage. It worked, but a good D-lineman will give him a little "push-pull" move or turn him to shed the block.

Round 2 goes thursday.

Preacher
08-12-2008, 05:16 PM
Lord Stiller....

Sorry I have to lay it out step for step... but maybe that way you can follow the conversation a bit better.

Step one. I posted--

Really?

Cause what I saw tonight... (and I just re-watched it, paying SPECIFIC attention to the center),

Mahan didn't get worked once. There was a couple times he didn't get the push we would have wanted. But he held his own and/or got a good push every time.


To which El-gonz also posted

I pvr'ed the game and will watch again, but for the most part saw that in the 2 series the starters had, Mahan never faced a NT because of the 4-3 defense and in most cases was helping out with either Simmons or Kemo on the DT's.

Tampa Bay fans used to say that Mahan was a better C than Guard, because he was always getting dominated by bigger DT's since the Panthers, Saints, Falcons all played 4-3's back then.

He never got a chance to show his improved strength against anybody 1-on 1 last night from what I can remember.

After reviewing the game again... I posted....

He DID take on a number of 1 on 1 blocks however.

BTW. I am not a Mahan supporter. I just don't like him being scapegoated. Last night. I looked specifically at that issue to see what happened to him. He took people on, 1 on 1 many times... and held his own.


Don't forget... Mahan was actually pretty decent the first half of last year.

It was the second half that was the problem (which is what makes me... and probably you, and others worry about him being able to keep on the weight).

If that is true, then play him the first half of the season, and sit him for Hartwig the second half.

Too which El G-- responded....

OK, I reviewed the first half again and Mahan did take on Patterson and Bunkley farily well as they did put a DT over him periodically. He had more of a problem with Bunkley and often got some secondary help from a free guard.

Honestly Mahan played pretty well, but didnt dominate either. I also have a problem with the type of leverage he tries to get. Mahan comes out and leans on defenders like he is trying to push a car that ran out of gas. His stance is too narrow and can be moved laterally by defenders.

Kemoateu on the other hand creates an explosive initial collision and then keeps his feet wide and crawls forward like a CAT Bulldozer. GREAT WIDE BASE and TECHNIQUE!!

Hartwig missed a block badly, but seems naturally bigger and thicker in the legs. He also maintains good leg drive without extending too far forward. Hartwig had a couple nice pulls to the left on a couple runs....one of which sprang Mendenhall nicely.

Hartwig looked better, but was playing mostly against the #2's. I'd say round one in the battle of the C's is a split decision to Hartwig.....but definately needs more of a look starting with this thursday.

Now... if you are still following the discussion, you will notice that El Gonz basically said what I said in the first post. He didn't get worked. He didn't get the pushes we want.. but he didn't get worked. Which is what I responded.

El Gonz---

That is about all I was saying. He took care of things.. didn't look beautiful, but didn't get worked either. Hartwig got worked once... but I chalk that up to not being in this system for a while.

As you say (and I agree), this thursday will tell us more.

I don't care WHO starts... I just shake my head at the scapegoating that happens.

Actually, I would rather have Mahan as a backup-- since he has weight loss problems. It would be nice to see him be able to step up when necessary... and not worry about our Center position anymore.


Now... somewhere is this DISCUSSION... you interject this beauty...
you are the biggest Mahan supporter here.

Mahan did not play 'pretty decent' the first half last year. He sucked

Hartwig played well on Friday and was supposed to start Thursday but has a sore knee. Mahan was okay but not tested much.

Hartwig is much better than Mahan and will be our starter this season if healthy. dont fool yourself


Nowhere did El-G say that. Which he himself admits--


I wouldnt say Hartwig was "clearly" better. He actually had a really bad base on one play and got tossed around like a freshman, but for the most part he maintains a strong, solid wide stance and strong base.

Mahan seems to be leaning really far forward and letting his feet get narrow,, to try and get leverage. It worked, but a good D-lineman will give him a little "push-pull" move or turn him to shed the block.

Round 2 goes thursday.

So in essence... Mahan played decent last Friday, but had some technique issues according to a someone else... I just said he didn't get the push we would want.

However, for some reason, you felt the need to pontificate how Mahan sucks... while seemingly not even spending the time watching the tape.



Oh yea.. BTW...

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showpost.php?p=420038&postcount=8


His final playing weight was 270... and he is losing weight again.

Please. Try to keep up with the facts.


And let us try this one last time....

I am only speaking of Mahan because he is being SCAPEGOATED... this very thread is proof. People who take time to WATCH him... notice he actually DID block decently last game. Those who didn't, ASSUME he sucked.

If MT decides that Mickey mouse is better at the position.. then I am all for mickey mouse playing it.

What I am NOT for is the blind hatred of a man to vent our frustrations on... because it is easier then recognizing that the previous staff left the line in a mess... and it was being further destroyed by a loudmouth at LG who was past his prime but wanted to get paid like he wasn't.

Mahan had LOTS of problems last year. His WEIGHT was a big one... but not the only one. Trust me... he had just as many.. or just as few problems as the rest of that line last year.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-12-2008, 06:22 PM
Preach, I think Lord Stiller was saying you are the Mahan supporter, not I.

I honestly think the guy is a solid backup, but should be giving us more for what he was signed to do. I also think Hartwig will beat him out for the job if he can stay healthy and that Stapleton will surpass Mahan by next season(I hope he is around).

True that I am not a Mahan fan, but as an objective guy that appreciates good O-line play can say Mahan got the job done in his 2 offensive series, while not dominating....he didnt get worked and didnt dominate.

If I can play referee a bit, he played well.....but dont think he will be starting come Sept. I blame injuries to Marvel Smith, Colon inexperience and disgruntled Faneca for our problems last year in addition to Mahan.

The biggest problem we have for 2009 will be the loss of Marvel Smith.

Preacher
08-12-2008, 06:44 PM
Preach, I think Lord Stiller was saying you are the Mahan supporter, not I.

I honestly think the guy is a solid backup, but should be giving us more for what he was signed to do. I also think Hartwig will beat him out for the job if he can stay healthy and that Stapleton will surpass Mahan by next season(I hope he is around).

True that I am not a Mahan fan, but as an objective guy that appreciates good O-line play can say Mahan got the job done in his 2 offensive series, while not dominating....he didnt get worked and didnt dominate.

If I can play referee a bit, he played well.....but dont think he will be starting come Sept. I blame injuries to Marvel Smith, Colon inexperience and disgruntled Faneca for our problems last year in addition to Mahan.

The biggest problem we have for 2009 will be the loss of Marvel Smith.

Now that is a post I can agree with. I am actually hoping (as I said before), that Mahan will be able to be a solid backup for a couple positions.

But here's the thing... wouldn't it be nice to have our center from last year playing so much better that he invalidates our FA?

That is what I don't get around here... the desire to throw someone not just under the bus, but run him over.. back up the bus.. doing it a few more times, and then throw him off a cliff with concrete shoes... only to sing his praises next year with no HINT of admission of wrong if he plays well during the year.

Aussie_steeler
08-12-2008, 07:53 PM
I am not prepared to state an opinion on who will be the starting center this year until the end of the preseason. (yes I am a fence sitter)

Personally I think our preseason from here on is going to be a great litmus test for this position because of the quality DT's that are going to be faced in the next three games.

Mahan and Hartwig are going to go against some proven heavy weights at the DT position who are going to help Tomlin make his decision.

1. Buffalo - Marcus Stroud (310) and McCargo ( 307)

2. Minnesota - Kevin Williams (311) and Pat Williams (317)

3. Carolina - Maake Kemoeatu (345) and Lewis (301)

Making it through that run of DT's will definitely show us who the best man is for this year.

The one opinion I will state is that I totally agree with El-gonz and that a young stud centre like Alex Mack needs to be drafted so that in two - three years hopefully we dont need to get engaged in this kind of debate over who should be the starting center. hall

Until then I am happy to see who the best man is. I only get the ESPN Monday night preseason games down here so I am appreciate of the dialouge that goes on that gives me some insight into how these battles are transpiring.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-12-2008, 08:45 PM
But here's the thing... wouldn't it be nice to have our center from last year playing so much better that he invalidates our FA?

.
Would be nice, but considering that Mahan had most of the Buc fans saying "he's too weak to match up against the big DT's in the division....so I think he would be a better center". The fact is Mahan probably isnt a starter in this league.

Is a parallel situation to that of Oliver Ross a couple seasons back. He started and was serviceable, but definately a weak link on our O-line. When he left for the Cards, most here said "no big loss", while Cardinal fans were optimistic he could help. Now none of us are surprised that Ross underperformed there and was released.

Similarly, Mahan was a steady performer in Tampa, but not a strength of their line, so they didnt mind that somebody overpaid for his services. He had 1 bad season as a Steeler and is in a battle to keep his job. I for one will not be surprised if he is released after 2 seasons in the Burgh.

Its the same thing.....but the Steelers haven't panicked to pickup a weak O lineman since Todd Fordham and its sad to see.

tony hipchest
08-12-2008, 09:09 PM
Would be nice, but considering that Mahan had most of the Buc fans saying "he's too weak to match up against the big DT's in the division....so I think he would be a better center". The fact is Mahan probably isnt a starter in this league.

Is a parallel situation to that of Oliver Ross a couple seasons back. He started and was serviceable, but definately a weak link on our O-line. When he left for the Cards, most here said "no big loss", while Cardinal fans were optimistic he could help. Now none of us are surprised that Ross underperformed there and was released.

Similarly, Mahan was a steady performer in Tampa, but not a strength of their line, so they didnt mind that somebody overpaid for his services. He had 1 bad season as a Steeler and is in a battle to keep his job. I for one will not be surprised if he is released after 2 seasons in the Burgh.

Its the same thing.....but the Steelers haven't panicked to pickup a weak O lineman since Todd Fordham and its sad to see.i was one who always thought ryan clark was due to be gone after his 2 mil/year stopgap measure of a contract was expired. possibly sooner had a. smith panned out a bit quicker.

i now realize he is probably due an extension and a payraise. if it comes to current salaries, and down to clark and mahan, im pretty sure everyone can agree that mahan is gone. with contracts of homes and miller looming, maham better be playing above market value if he expects his contract to be kept.

to this point it aint happenning whereas a player like clark has played over his heas and is sure to command more on his next contract.

we saw what happened when we lost hope and we saw what happened when we lost clark.

right now, mahan is on my list of "expendables". (check the contract extension ken hamlin just got from the cowboys and tell me clark's value isnt steadilly rising. )

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-12-2008, 09:15 PM
we saw what happened when we lost hope and we saw what happened when we lost clark.

right now, mahan is on my list of "expendables". (check the contract extension ken hamlin just got from the cowboys and tell me clark's value isnt steadilly rising. )

I dont think Clark will be a big draw on the open market. Good player, health issues, spleenless, etc.

Steelers still have 2 young guys in Smith(I think is a better SS) and now I think Mundy if somebody outbid us for Clark's services. That's good succession planning. Unlike the situation of Jeff Hartings and Marvel Smith....to whom we have no good replacements in waiting.

Lord Stiller
08-13-2008, 06:58 AM
Preacher - thanks for the info. about Mahan's weight loss issue. That was something i was not aware of.

But you know what? I dont give a damn what his excuse is, he sucks. You have been defending him since last season when he damn near got Ben killed every game. Open your eyes

Hartwig will be our starter

Lord Stiller
08-13-2008, 06:59 AM
Now that is a post I can agree with. I am actually hoping (as I said before), that Mahan will be able to be a solid backup for a couple positions.

:blah:

too bad he is paid like a starter

Preacher
08-13-2008, 02:15 PM
Preacher - thanks for the info. about Mahan's weight loss issue. That was something i was not aware of.

But you know what? I dont give a damn what his excuse is, he sucks. You have been defending him since last season when he damn near got Ben killed every game. Open your eyes

Hartwig will be our starter


I don't care if Hartwig is our starter or not.

I haven't been "defending" him. I have however, been arguing against the blinded rage thrown his way.

How hard is it to say that he had a "decent" game Sunday? Not great, nothing to get excited about... but a decent game?

All I am looking for is intellectual honesty... when a player does well a few times, say so. When not, say so.

Last year, second half, Mahan got absolutely WORKED. The whole line did. Matter of fact, I did a statistical analyses in another thread that showed a statistically significant change in the number of sacks between the first half and the second half of the season.

Those types of numbers speak to a much larger problem with the entire line... one which Mahan was on, contributed to, and must own the weight of suckage that was his the last half of last year.

Those things are now put away. It is time to wipe the slate clean. If he can keep his weight up and stone the DL like he did in the first game (didn't get a good push.. but didn't get pushed back either), then we look at Hartwig. If Hartwig gets worked a couple times, then Mahan is the starter... and should be. If Hartwig stones the DL and also gets a push, then HE is the starter, and should be.

it's funny, people here think I love Mahan and George Bush... because there is nothing but invective thrown their way otherwise. Turst me, if this board was all love for Mahan, I would be pointing out his problems... and he has them.

intellectual honesty... speak of his good and his bad. Speak of the problems that may or may not have been out of his control... THEN make a conclusion.

Preacher
08-13-2008, 02:16 PM
:blah:

too bad he is paid like a starter

No, he is not.













We pay our backups 7 mill a year... didn't you hear?

revefsreleets
08-13-2008, 02:49 PM
If Mahan wins the job, he earned it.

But then, of course, we'll have to hear from all the Tom's, Dick's and Harry's how they, as always, know better than the Steelers FO.

Tedious.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-13-2008, 05:08 PM
We pay our backups 7 mill a year... didn't you hear?

:rofl:

Preacher
08-13-2008, 05:11 PM
If Mahan wins the job, he earned it.

But then, of course, we'll have to hear from all the Tom's, Dick's and Harry's how they, as always, know better than the Steelers FO.

Tedious.

Yep. And if Hartwig wins... then he earned it.



But this pontification is getting a little thick.

HometownGal
08-13-2008, 05:18 PM
If Mahan wins the job, he earned it.

But then, of course, we'll have to hear from all the Tom's, Dick's and Harry's how they, as always, know better than the Steelers FO.

Tedious.

:toofunny::thumbsup:

Those Toms, Dicks and Harrys had better update their resumes and get 'em in to the Steelers FO while they're at it. :chuckle:

Lord Stiller
08-13-2008, 05:28 PM
How hard is it to say that he had a "decent" game Sunday? Not great, nothing to get excited about... but a decent game?

I said in my first post in this thread that Mahan played okay:

Mahan was okay but not tested much.

Mahan played "decent" in 0 out of 17 games last season. I have no faith in him

xfl2001fan
08-13-2008, 05:42 PM
Coach Stiller is in the house:Mahan played "decent" in 0 out of 17 games last season. I have no faith in himGlad to know that you've broken down every game last season and watched Mahan's play specifically...because that's the only way you'd really know.

Preacher
08-13-2008, 05:47 PM
I said in my first post in this thread that Mahan played okay:



Mahan played "decent" in 0 out of 17 games last season. I have no faith in him

:noidea: I tried.

.
OK.

One more try.

http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/hnbctb/?action=view&current=sacks3.flv

All the sacks last year.

1. Mahan was pretty good in the beginning... it wasn't until about half way through the year that he started having problems. Pay attention to the teams that are played.

2. When he IS getting driven, look at the fact he is still in traffic, which means that the entire team was being driven.

3. Watch him against the Jets (I think)... If you look closely, you can see his jockstrap on the field... he got WORKED...

BTW...

this video showed.... that our whole team sucked... You could see blown coverages, people coming off ends... defensive double teams not covered... There were SO many pieces to the puzzle that were missing...

Scalaid6
08-13-2008, 07:17 PM
Mahan is a bum. The Jags DLine mad him put a skirt on

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-13-2008, 08:52 PM
If Mahan wins the job, he earned it.

But then, of course, we'll have to hear from all the Tom's, Dick's and Harry's how they, as always, know better than the Steelers FO.

Tedious.

This game is not black and white. I'm sure there are lots of fans that said "why draft Alonzo Jackson that high.....he looks weak and has bust written all over him" or "why draft Troy Edwards when Jon Tait was still there??"

I guess those "tedious" Tom's, Dick's and Harry's did know more than the Steelers FO. :wink02:

SteelMember
08-14-2008, 07:28 AM
Mahan is a bum. The Jags DLine mad him put a skirt on

Wow. How surprising. Another player added to the list.
Mahan
Bettis
Porter
LLoyd
Ben

Who will be the next to underperform and get raked over the coals? Stay Tuned.:thumbsup:

stlrtruck
08-14-2008, 07:44 AM
Wow. How surprising. Another player added to the list.
Mahan
Bettis
Porter
LLoyd
Ben

Who will be the next to underperform and get raked over the coals? Stay Tuned.:thumbsup:

I'll take Troy for 1,000 Alex (LOL) :rofl:

Lord Stiller
08-14-2008, 08:29 AM
http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/hnbctb/?action=view&current=sacks3.flv

All the sacks last year.

that's only the plays where Ben got sacked.

there were twice as many plays where he should have been sacked but eluded it. and also the running plays where we were stuffed all the time up the middle because Mahan sucks

HometownGal
08-14-2008, 08:40 AM
there were twice as many plays where he should have been sacked but eluded it. and also the running plays where we were stuffed all the time up the middle because Mahan sucks

Sorry, LS, but you obviously didn't take note of the left side of the line in many of our games last season. As I've said until I'm blue in the face - Mahan bears a portion of the responsibility for the line's poor showing, but if you really paid attention to the line (which I made a point of doing watching the replays of some of the Steelers games from last season), you would see more often than not, the left side of that line collapsed or didn't do their jobs and allowed a blitz through and/or didn't finish their tackles. :banging::banging::banging:

HometownGal
08-14-2008, 08:42 AM
Who will be the next to underperform and get raked over the coals? Stay Tuned.:thumbsup:

If Hartwig starts at C this season and the line still can't get it together, Hartwig will be the scapegoat of the season - you heard it here first! :chuckle:

revefsreleets
08-14-2008, 09:01 AM
This game is not black and white. I'm sure there are lots of fans that said "why draft Alonzo Jackson that high.....he looks weak and has bust written all over him" or "why draft Troy Edwards when Jon Tait was still there??"

I guess those "tedious" Tom's, Dick's and Harry's did know more than the Steelers FO. :wink02:

You are suggesting that if Mahan wins the job he'll have paid off the coaches? That there's a conspiracy? That they just hate Hartwig? Because, if you read what I wrote, Oz, I said if he wins the job he'll have earned it. Two men enter, one man leaves is pretty black and white, I think...

"I Am The Mighty Oz, and I Have Spoken!"

DACEB
08-14-2008, 09:10 AM
If Hartwig starts at C this season and the line still can't get it together, Hartwig will be the scapegoat of the season - you heard it here first! :chuckle:

I'll go out on a (short) limb and state that;

-Hartwig wins the job at center
-Mahan gets released this season or next, Stapleton is on the rise.
-The O-line as a whole performs much better than last season

X-Terminator
08-14-2008, 09:12 AM
If Hartwig starts at C this season and the line still can't get it together, Hartwig will be the scapegoat of the season - you heard it here first! :chuckle:

I'll go even further and call it a stone cold, lead pipe lock! :chuckle:

HometownGal
08-14-2008, 09:21 AM
I'll go out on a (short) limb and state that;

-Hartwig wins the job at center
-Mahan gets released this season or next, Stapleton is on the rise.
-The O-line as a whole performs much better than last season

You missed my point DACEB. A-OK with me if Hartwig wins the C spot if he's earned it, but as soon as Ben takes a few hits, a couple of sacks and a well-designed running play doesn't work because someone - anyone - on the line doesn't do his job on that particular play, the "Hartwig Sucks" threads will start to pop up and he'll become the 2009 annual Scapegoat.

DACEB
08-14-2008, 09:38 AM
You missed my point DACEB. A-OK with me if Hartwig wins the C spot if he's earned it, but as soon as Ben takes a few hits, a couple of sacks and a well-designed running play doesn't work because someone - anyone - on the line doesn't do his job on that particular play, the "Hartwig Sucks" threads will start to pop up and he'll become the 2009 annual Scapegoat.

One thing I know for sure is that you and I want the best players on the field. Unfortunately whoever takes over at that position, has huge expectations to live up to.

If Mahan continues to have a problem keeping on weight, that alone is reason enough for him not to start. Granted if what Colon said about Faneca last season is true, there were numerous reasons why the line underperformed last season.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-14-2008, 09:51 AM
You are suggesting that if Mahan wins the job he'll have paid off the coaches? That there's a conspiracy? That they just hate Hartwig? Because, if you read what I wrote, Oz, I said if he wins the job he'll have earned it. Two men enter, one man leaves is pretty black and white, I think...

"I Am The Mighty Oz, and I Have Spoken!"

I'm not suggesting that there is any conspiracy and yes, if Mahan wins the job he has earned it. I dont for a minute think like some here that because it was Tomlin's guy from Tampa (alegedly) that its his job to have.

I'm just pointing out the fact that the Tom, Dick and Harry's that you sarcastically think should not challenge that the FO does are never right and should just keep their tedious thoughts to themselves.

I'm all for the best guy to win the job,

Lord Stiller
08-14-2008, 09:55 AM
You missed my point DACEB. A-OK with me if Hartwig wins the C spot if he's earned it, but as soon as Ben takes a few hits, a couple of sacks and a well-designed running play doesn't work because someone - anyone - on the line doesn't do his job on that particular play, the "Hartwig Sucks" threads will start to pop up and he'll become the 2009 annual Scapegoat.

That's a very stupid response IMO....no offense

If you payed attention to Mahan last year, you could see him get absolutely dominated more often than not. This would result in collapsing the pocket or stuffing many run plays

fansince'76
08-14-2008, 10:12 AM
That's a very stupid response IMO....no offense

If you payed attention to Mahan last year, you could see him get absolutely dominated more often than not. This would result in collapsing the pocket or stuffing many run plays

I saw the whole offensive line get dominated on passing plays last year, just like in '06. If it happens again in '08 with Hartwig starting, more than likely he'll bear the brunt of the criticism. Also, chill on calling other people's posts "stupid."

HometownGal
08-14-2008, 10:18 AM
That's a very stupid response IMO....no offense

If you payed attention to Mahan last year, you could see him get absolutely dominated more often than not. This would result in collapsing the pocket or stuffing many run plays

Don't you EVER call my responses or anyone else's responses on this board stupid, ya got that pal? We don't agree on Mahan and probably never will, but my post was FAR from stupid. What's the matter, truth hurt? You'll probably be the first to start a "Hartwig Sucks" thread.

I paid attention last season to not only Mahan but the entire line and they all bear the responsibility for the poor play and breakdowns, but again - the left side of the line, imho, played more poorly than the rest of the line.

Lord Stiller
08-14-2008, 11:42 AM
What's the matter, truth hurt?

what truth?

Mahan was beaten more than any other lineman. You really dispute that?

HometownGal
08-14-2008, 12:22 PM
what truth?

Mahan was beaten more than any other lineman. You really dispute that?

Yes I do, as do other members on this board, as well as Mahan's own OL coach.

As I've said, I don't care which guy nails down the starting spot, but I think you and several others here have scapegoated Mahan unfairly.

Lord Stiller
08-14-2008, 12:47 PM
As I've said, I don't care which guy nails down the starting spot, but I think you and several others here have scapegoated Mahan unfairly.

I hope Mahan improves but last year was horrible and makes the signing look like a very dumb move.

I wish i could drink the koolaid and believe the Steelers always make the right moves and that their bad players aren't actually that bad but I am a realist and I saw Mahan screw up far too often to believe otherwise

I'm done talking about Mahan

fansince'76
08-14-2008, 12:58 PM
I wish i could drink the koolaid and believe the Steelers always make the right moves and that their bad players aren't actually that bad but I am a realist and I saw Mahan screw up far too often to believe otherwise

Yep, whenever someone doesn't constantly criticize, berate, play armchair GM, and second-guess the FO, they're "drinking the Kool-Aid." She never said that Mahan was the second coming of Mike Webster, she simply made the point that he got an unfair share of the criticism for the shitty play of the entire OL last year, including a certain disgruntled former LG who has gone to the last two Pro Bowls on his name alone, which is a point I personally agree with as well.

lilyoder6
08-14-2008, 12:59 PM
i just want the best center to start.. i dont care who it is just as long as he can play well

HometownGal
08-14-2008, 01:53 PM
i just want the best center to start.. i dont care who it is just as long as he can play well

Bingo. :thumbsup: (With a little help from the other 4 on the line - an OL should play in sync as a unit). :wink02:

SteelMember
08-14-2008, 02:22 PM
Wow. How surprising. Another player added to the list.
Mahan
Bettis
Porter
LLoyd
Ben

Who will be the next to underperform and get raked over the coals? Stay Tuned.:thumbsup:

And the winner is......

I agree Tyrone Carter is a Bum

Sorry stlrtruck. You were VERY close.

Preacher
08-14-2008, 02:27 PM
Harrison sucks.

He had all those sacks last year... but was able to be superman and tackle a lumbering QB running into the endzone.

He also couldn't stop the patriots from winning the AFCCG against is.... IN 01!

He sucks!

I also blame the next owner of the Steelers for cutting John Kuhn. He WAS a future HOF'er you know!










(Where is the facetious smiley?)

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-14-2008, 03:10 PM
Yeah, at least Kuhn was better than Carey Davis.....

KUUUUUUUHN!!

Alva Lord
08-14-2008, 03:46 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/MBlaster1/Silverbacksig540.jpg

lilyoder6
08-14-2008, 04:00 PM
can't wait to see how hartwig will do as the starter 2nie

The Duke
08-14-2008, 04:14 PM
Yeah, at least Kuhn was better than Carey Davis.....

KUUUUUUUHN!!

to keep on topic....kuhn's a better center than both mahan and hartwig :doh:

but that's common knowledge

Preacher
08-14-2008, 04:21 PM
to keep on topic....kuhn's a better center than both mahan and hartwig :doh:

but that's common knowledge


Kuhn is a better coach that Cowher, Tomlin, and Noll put together!!