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Stlrs4Life
08-09-2008, 08:42 PM
Timmons, Dixon pass tests

By Jim Wexell
SteelCityInsider.com
Posted Aug 9, 2008
http://pit.scout.com/2/777565.html


It didn't take much to see that Lawrence Timmons and Dennis Dixon can help the Pittsburgh Steelers.

PITTSBURGH – Sometimes, preseason games are worthless. But other times, it takes just one play to reveal talent.

Let’s examine two telling plays turned in by two young Steelers during the 16-10 preseason win Friday over the Philadelphia Eagles.

First was a play made by second-year linebacker Lawrence Timmons, who showed off his speed in closing on a running back who took a short pass out in the flat.

Last week, 12,000 fans at Latrobe Memorial Stadium were treated to the suddenness and explosiveness of Timmons in the backs-on-backers blitz pickup drill. Willie Parker deserved kudos for at least getting in Timmons’ way and slowing him down. The rest, including busted-up rookie tight end Dezmond Sherrod, were simply run over.

A week later, Timmons, playing inside linebacker, showed that suddenness in holding a short pass to Correll Buckhalter in the open flat to a 3-yard gain. Timmons explained the burst the same way he did Friday night at the high school stadium: with a shrug of the shoulders.

“I was basically sitting in zone and came and made the play. That was all,” he said.

Timmons made a few more plays. He made the tackle on the Steelers’ first kickoff, and he covered wide receiver Jason Avant in the back of the end zone to prevent a touchdown. Timmons also stuffed Buckhalter on a run up the middle, showing he’ll stick his head in there at the point of attack. It’s the 22-year-old’s final question mark as he tries to wrest the mack linebacker job from veteran Larry Foote. Of course, Timmons doesn’t want to talk about that right now.

“We’re a team, a band of brothers,” he said. “I’m just trying to do anything to make this defense better in any way.”

The other telling play Friday night involved rookie quarterback Dennis Dixon. Rushed into the game a quarter ahead of schedule because of an injury to Charlie Batch, Dixon looked like anything but a rookie in his preseason opener. He completed 6 of 9 passes for 30 yards and had a 49-yarder called back because someone held a defensive tackle who wouldn’t have touched the elusive Dixon anyway.

The elusive Dixon – that’s the important phrase, and the play which showed he still has all of his mobility, in spite of tearing an ACL only nine months ago, occurred in the third quarter with the Steelers facing 3rd-and-20 from their own 10.

Rookie left tackle Tony Hills was beaten badly by former Eagles first-round draft pick Jerome McDougle, and McDougle closed in on Dixon, who was looking to pass from the end zone. But Dixon spun naturally to his right and circled back to his left. He evaded McDougle like a confident pro and re-set himself. He threw back right, a bit high and incomplete, but the rookie had averted a safety and showed that his knee is fine.

“I used my God-given talent to get out of the pocket and try to make a play,” he said, much like Timmons with a what’s-the-big-deal look. And then he realized his knee, his mobility, was back.

“I was totally healthy,” he said with a big smile. “I got hit a little bit today, too. That was my true challenge and I think I passed.”

Both of the young players – Dixon and Timmons – passed their tests. It only took one play to tell.

tony hipchest
08-09-2008, 09:07 PM
this is the same dixon i saw last night but reading the charlie batch thread, and people are convinced he is absolutely horrible. i was impressed with how quick his release was and how he took what was open instead of trying to play above himself and make a big play.

i always thought timmons was about 230 lbs but i swear he looked like about 245. he looked BIG and FAST. there are many rookies in this years class that are older than him. we could just be seeing the tip of the iceberg with him and woodley.

stillers4me
08-09-2008, 09:09 PM
How many of you groaned the last time a young, nervous, rookie quarterback stepped onto the field for the first time as a Steelers starting quarterback and thought the world was going to end and the Steelers were doomed?????

Give the kid a chance to show us what he's got before we hang him out to dry. Hopefully, he'll never be in the position that Ben was thrust into, baptism by fire.

paw-n-maul-u
08-09-2008, 09:13 PM
I agree Tony, people were slaying him in the other thread. Same banter ... wasted pick, inaccurate, etc ... But if you actually watched the whole game, especially that big throw called back, he looked very good, I mean ofcourse there are going to be jitters, but I think he played solid... Timmons was always around the ball too

xfl2001fan
08-09-2008, 09:16 PM
It's sad when a Browns fan has done more on defending the pick than some of the Steelers fans have been. i thought he handled himself well for a rookie.

I think the biggest I flaw with him was the sack he took. Unfortunately, I can't go back and review it...but the impression I got when I saw the play was that he "felt" more pressure than actually existed. Not exactly uncommon with young QBs.

Hapa
08-09-2008, 09:56 PM
I was AMAZED by his Dan Marino-like release

lilyoder6
08-09-2008, 10:03 PM
thats y i don't see the harm of him just being our number 2 qb.. he showed he canplay so lets see what he can do w/ the 2nd string and some time w/ the 1st string

19ward86
08-09-2008, 10:08 PM
He will be a starter some day in the NFL, whether or not it is with us is uncertain.

Elvis
08-09-2008, 10:49 PM
I liked what I saw from both of them and especially Mendenhall
:tt02:

The Duke
08-09-2008, 11:01 PM
“I used my God-given talent to get out of the pocket and try to make a play,” he said, much like Timmons with a what’s-the-big-deal look. And then he realized his knee, his mobility, was back.

“I was basically sitting in zone and came and made the play. That was all,” he said.

“We’re a team, a band of brothers,” he said. “I’m just trying to do anything to make this defense better in any way.”

this is what I love about this guys, it's all about teamwork.

I like what I saw in dixon. hopefully he gets even better. and timmons....all I gotta say is Foote better watch out for his job

Galax Steeler
08-10-2008, 06:33 AM
I was really impressed with his play also he looked reall good in the pocket and I believe that it is only a matter of time before Timmons is in the starting lineup.

Texasteel
08-10-2008, 07:09 AM
I thought he looked to be just what they said he was, very quick side to side.
If he dosn't start at some point this year, then you can call him a bust. Remember he was taken with the 15th pick in the draft.

xfl2001fan
08-10-2008, 08:14 AM
I thought he looked to be just what they said he was, very quick side to side.
If he dosn't start at some point this year, then you can call him a bust. Remember he was taken with the 15th pick in the draft.

There's still a lot of talent in front of him.

GBMelBlount
08-10-2008, 08:30 AM
He (Dixon) will be a starter some day in the NFL, whether or not it is with us is uncertain.

I'd say it's a little early to know that. But the kid did go 6 for 9, one incompletion was off Dekker's hands and the 40 yard completion to Walker (?) was called back. That is NOT bad for a first outing. He may go nowhere but personally I like his upside for where we got him. :thumbsup:

Texasteel
08-10-2008, 11:26 AM
There's still a lot of talent in front of him.

Just my opinion, but if you are the 15th player taken in the NFL draft, there shouldn't be that much talent in front or you.

X-Terminator
08-10-2008, 11:35 AM
Just my opinion, but if you are the 15th player taken in the NFL draft, there shouldn't be that much talent in front or you.

He's also just 22 years old. How many 22 year olds (21 when he was drafted) can step right in and be stars in the NFL? This ain't the NHL where 18 year olds can come in and excel right away.

Timmons eventually will take Foote's job this season.

Preacher
08-10-2008, 11:59 AM
Just my opinion, but if you are the 15th player taken in the NFL draft, there shouldn't be that much talent in front or you.

Except if you're a linebacker for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

I don't care if you come out as the number 1 pick overall.... there will STILL be talent ahead of you at that position on this team.

xfl2001fan
08-10-2008, 12:34 PM
Just my opinion, but if you are the 15th player taken in the NFL draft, there shouldn't be that much talent in front or you.The Steelers had far bigger needs than LB when they drafted there. They didn't draft him as a need based pick, they drafted him as a BPA.

He's an investment into their future...and from what little I've seen, a pretty good investment.

Texasteel
08-10-2008, 12:58 PM
Don't get me wrong, I like Timmons and think he will be a fine player, infact I think he will start at some point this year which would make this statment of no importance.
I just think if a kid is taken in the top 15 of the draft and is not starting by the end of the 2nd year, he is either a bust of the team made a mistake.
We will just have to disagree on this.

There are ofcorse alway exceptions.

lilyoder6
08-10-2008, 01:28 PM
usually u give players 3 yrs 2 be a starter if ur selected real high..

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-10-2008, 02:55 PM
I was AMAZED by his Dan Marino-like release

You are joking......right??

I thought his motion looked like a bit of a wonky mix of Vince Young and Ken Stabler with the starting position of a shot-putter. I seriously thought his motion in college didnt look that bad.

Marino was textbook in keeping the ball high and his left hand on the ball without any need for excessive windup......Dixon's delivery is no Marino.

I think he looked nervous and had accuracy issues, but par for the course for a rookie and he should be the #3 guy when camp is done.

DACEB
08-10-2008, 06:02 PM
this is the same dixon i saw last night but reading the charlie batch thread, and people are convinced he is absolutely horrible. i was impressed with how quick his release was and how he took what was open instead of trying to play above himself and make a big play.

Yea, he sucks.:doh:
I agree Tony. The kid looked poised for his first game, and getting tossed in early. He made some quick decisions for positive yardage. The screen looked terrible, needs to be more patient, and the long throw also, probably still getting used to the pro ball. The kid has some wheels, I like that in a young back-up. Notice how he never really looked to run though, ran to elude and throw the ball.


i always thought timmons was about 230 lbs but i swear he looked like about 245. he looked BIG and FAST. there are many rookies in this years class that are older than him. we could just be seeing the tip of the iceberg with him and woodley.

I'm pretty sure he's up to 243 Tony, which is the same weight as Farrior. He did look good. I remember the play mentioned. I remember laughing because there was an Eagle that was looking to block Timmons and when he turned Timmons was already by him making the tackle.

Preacher
08-11-2008, 12:58 AM
Don't get me wrong, I like Timmons and think he will be a fine player, infact I think he will start at some point this year which would make this statment of no importance.
I just think if a kid is taken in the top 15 of the draft and is not starting by the end of the 2nd year, he is either a bust of the team made a mistake.
We will just have to disagree on this.

There are ofcorse alway exceptions.

I understand what your saying...

but I think there are certain positions that are exceted... on certain teams.

LB's on the Steelers...

RB's on the Chargers

that kind of thing./

SteelMember
08-11-2008, 09:19 AM
Yea, he sucks.:doh:
I agree Tony. The kid looked poised for his first game, and getting tossed in early. He made some quick decisions for positive yardage. The screen looked terrible, needs to be more patient, and the long throw also, probably still getting used to the pro ball. The kid has some wheels, I like that in a young back-up. Notice how he never really looked to run though, ran to elude and throw the ball.
Good observations. That deep ball was definately underthrown, but all the air under it gave the reciever time to adjust.

stlrtruck
08-11-2008, 09:20 AM
It would be nice to partake in these types of discussions if only they had shown the Steelers game here in Tampa instead, whatever else was on tv that night. Freakin' ridiculous.
The NFL and the networks know that Steelers nation is so large that they're going to get better ratings.

But instead, I get to read great reviews and pretend I saw what they're talking about.
Man I can't wait for the regular season!!!

lilyoder6
08-11-2008, 12:11 PM
well i know they had the eagles gamne on nfl network.. but also that direct tv and att has a pittsburgh fox channel to show all of pittsburgh sports games.. thats how i watched it

rbryan
08-11-2008, 02:16 PM
All I can say is if you guys think Dixon passed the test, you must be grading on the curve.

I don't have a problem with a rookie coming in and looking nervous, that's human nature. This guy is just too small, which is the biggest problem I had from day one. As I've stated earlier, it looks like he's shrunk even more since draft day if thats possible.

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 02:36 PM
I dont think you can measure talent by anyones size. As I recall LT,Emmitt,Kellen Winslow Sr, 1st LT,Barry Sanders, Mike Singletary and Doug Flutie were said to be too small and they all fared well. Also, Brian Bosworth, Ryan Leaf, Lavon Kirkland, Kendrell Bell etc were all big and didnt fair so well. I know there is always an exception to the rule but if we measure talent by size then we will miss out on alot of extraordinary players. Having said that, I still say the kid is green and that is to be expected in your 1st outing, I will be in wait and see mode before I comment again.

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 02:42 PM
Oh, I forgot. Timmons looked GREAT! He has made huge strides from his rookie season. Last year his most memorable play was stepping on Ricky Williams chest to end his season. I always thougth Larry Foote hurt us in games vs Jags due to his size. They would spread us out in 3wr and run up the gut on us and Foote would be outmanned. Foote also gets run over alot, I dont like that in my MLB. Timmons is a HOG out there and the speed is an added addition, he will beat out Foote, then take Farriors spot next season and Foote will most likely go back to his Mack spot.

lilyoder6
08-11-2008, 02:51 PM
well also it hurts us against the jags was the holding that wasn't called.. timmons will get a lot of playing time this yr and if he doesn't over-take foote this yr then next yr will be impossible to keep timmons from being a starter

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 03:25 PM
What hurt us against the Jags was being out physicalled in the regular season and Bens HORRIBLE 1st half in the playoffs.

rbryan
08-11-2008, 03:48 PM
I dont think you can measure talent by anyones size. As I recall LT,Emmitt,Kellen Winslow Sr, 1st LT,Barry Sanders, Mike Singletary and Doug Flutie were said to be too small and they all fared well. Also, Brian Bosworth, Ryan Leaf, Lavon Kirkland, Kendrell Bell etc were all big and didnt fair so well. I know there is always an exception to the rule but if we measure talent by size then we will miss out on alot of extraordinary players. Having said that, I still say the kid is green and that is to be expected in your 1st outing, I will be in wait and see mode before I comment again.

Levon Kirland didn't fare well?? I understand what you're saying, but c'mon, everyone on your list except for maybe Flutie makes Dixon look like he's anorexic. RB's and wide outs OK, but not the QB, not in todays game. I don't think a #5 draft choice should be used on a one in a million longshot just so we can say we gave the "little guy" a shot. Theres plenty of QB's coming out of college that have both the talent and the size.

xfl2001fan
08-11-2008, 04:17 PM
We will just have to disagree on this.

There are ofcorse alway exceptions.

:drink: I can accept that. Better than starting an e-flame war that can't be won.

xfl2001fan
08-11-2008, 04:19 PM
Levon Kirland didn't fare well?? I understand what you're saying, but c'mon, everyone on your list except for maybe Flutie makes Dixon look like he's anorexic. RB's and wide outs OK, but not the QB, not in todays game. I don't think a #5 draft choice should be used on a one in a million longshot just so we can say we gave the "little guy" a shot. Theres plenty of QB's coming out of college that have both the talent and the size.

Yes, he needs to gain weight, but I'm pretty sure he knows he's not going to win 1-on-1 battles against defenders (so there will be no Charlie Batch lower-the-shoulder plays.)

Throwing a guy under the bus before he even gets a shot is as rediculous as handing Darren McFadden the RoY trophy today.

rbryan
08-11-2008, 04:47 PM
I could throw him under a moped if it makes you feel any better.

I'll make sure I check with you next time before I say something ridiculous.

Prok
08-11-2008, 05:04 PM
What hurt us against the Jags was being out physicalled in the regular season and Bens HORRIBLE 1st half in the playoffs.

I beg to differ. Ben overcame his horrible first half. Ask any other franchise QB if they had to overcome in playoffs before. The D failed us when we needed em' most, but that 3rd and 6 QB sweep call by Arians was the only HORRIBLE i witnessed.

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 05:15 PM
Of course you beg to differ, your not being objective. Ben gave up 17 points due to turnovers and a potential 3 for us when he fumbled and you blame our D? Ben put us behind the 8-ball but yes in the 2nd half he played up to his Pro Bowl potential but I ask you, if not for that 17 point GIFT, who would have won?

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 05:16 PM
How do you overcome 17 points? You can NEVER get that back. Sorry bro

rbryan
08-11-2008, 05:20 PM
Theres enough blame to go around on both sides of the ball in that game. The last cut is the deepest for me, the Jags running the ball down our throat on that last drive is what sticks with me the most.

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 05:20 PM
Levon Kirland didn't fare well?? I understand what you're saying, but c'mon, everyone on your list except for maybe Flutie makes Dixon look like he's anorexic. RB's and wide outs OK, but not the QB, not in todays game. I don't think a #5 draft choice should be used on a one in a million longshot just so we can say we gave the "little guy" a shot. Theres plenty of QB's coming out of college that have both the talent and the size.

Is Kirkland considered in the class of Lambert, Ham or even Farrior? He played well in stretches but so did TE Eric Green, also I said there is ALWAYS exceptions to the rule, perhaps you didnt see that. As far as Dixon, prior to his injury in college how many Qbs were rated above him? Not many. Prior to injury he was a top 15 pick DESPITE his size. Lets face it, the reason he went in the 5th round is because he got injured sir. I still maintain that size is not an issue (maybe Height) at Qb.

fansince'76
08-11-2008, 05:22 PM
How do you overcome 17 points? You can NEVER get that back. Sorry bro

By going up 29-28 with about 6 minutes left? :noidea:

rbryan
08-11-2008, 05:24 PM
Never said Kirkland was, you made it sound like he was a flop though. I'm done bashing Dixon, I hope he's the second coming of Doug Flutie.

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 05:26 PM
I understand your point but that running just ran clock Bens errors produced points for them and that hurts me more. The images of Rashean Mathis going in for 6 hurts. The D was tired as evidence of that run by Jone-Drew. At the end of the day our D was #1 in the league, despite injuries to Aaron and Troy and Haggans (at times). Please go back and look at the games we lost and then look at the Qbs stats in those games. Look at the games we won and then look at the Qbs stats, do you see a pattern? This is not limited to Ben, it goes with ALL NFL Qbs. Your only as good as the play of your Qb and again of course there are always exceptions to the rule (Like our SB win vs the Seachickens)

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 05:28 PM
By going up 29-28 with about 6 minutes left? :noidea:

Yes thats wishful thinking but take those 17 points off of the Jags tally and whats the score?

fansince'76
08-11-2008, 05:36 PM
Yes thats wishful thinking but take those 17 points off of the Jags tally and whats the score?

What's the score without Ben's second half TD passes? Especially when the running game produced a grand total of 43 yards in that game?

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 05:38 PM
Come on bro in the 2nd half Ben played like he is capable of. In the 1st half is that the Ben you want? Are you serious? I love my kids but when they are wrong they are wrong. We were down big because of the running game? Because of the D? Come on now.

Prok
08-11-2008, 05:40 PM
Of course you beg to differ, your not being objective. Ben gave up 17 points due to turnovers and a potential 3 for us when he fumbled and you blame our D? Ben put us behind the 8-ball but yes in the 2nd half he played up to his Pro Bowl potential but I ask you, if not for that 17 point GIFT, who would have won?

Like i said, ask any franchise QB if they've ever had to overcome stuff like that in big games before..... Players will always make mistakes and always have to overcome them. Nobody plays the perfect game all the time. How much more objective can i be ??

Fact of the matter is that we had the lead very late in that game, and dealt with the circumstances that arose. On that 3rd and 6, we had an opportunity to seal the deal by going for and getting a first down there.We instead chose to play it safe with a QB sweep.... putting the game in the D's hands...... The rest is history.

Again, that objective enough for ya ?? Or perhaps Ben should just be the perfect QB all the time and never make mistakes ?? Nevermind the fortitude it took to overcome mistakes and leave it all out on the field for us ??

X-Terminator
08-11-2008, 05:52 PM
Come on bro in the 2nd half Ben played like he is capable of. In the 1st half is that the Ben you want? Are you serious? I love my kids but when they are wrong they are wrong. We were down big because of the running game? Because of the D? Come on now.

So the loss is all Ben's fault, right? Nobody else on the team, no other unit, should take any blame for the loss...it's all Ben.

How typical.

Prok
08-11-2008, 05:54 PM
So the loss is all Ben's fault, right? Nobody else on the team, no other unit, should take any blame for the loss...it's all Ben.

How typical.

It baffles me as to how many Steelers fans can be so hard on our QB's.

fansince'76
08-11-2008, 05:56 PM
Come on bro in the 2nd half Ben played like he is capable of. In the 1st half is that the Ben you want? Are you serious? I love my kids but when they are wrong they are wrong. We were down big because of the running game? Because of the D? Come on now.

It wasn't the running game or the D that put us a point ahead with about 6 minutes to go. But it's all water under the bridge to me now. That was last season.

X-Terminator
08-11-2008, 05:57 PM
It baffles me as to how many Steelers fans can be so hard on our QB's.

You get used to it after a while. It won't stop me from pointing it out, though. This is one of the toughest places in the NFL for a QB to play, because the fans demand nothing less than perfection.

fansince'76
08-11-2008, 06:00 PM
You get used to it after a while. It won't stop me from pointing it out, though. This is one of the toughest places in the NFL for a QB to play, because the fans demand nothing less than perfection.

And what's worse is that demand has been skewed over the last 7 or so years by a bunch of cheaters who fed the opposing D's signals to their QB while the QB did just enough for their PK to kick them to 3 Lombardi Trophies.

Prok
08-11-2008, 06:04 PM
And what's worse is that demand has been skewered over the last 7 or so years by a bunch of cheaters who fed the opposing D's signals to their QB while the QB did just enough for their PK to kick them to 3 Lombardi Trophies.

Yea that really soured me on the patsy's too. All things being equal, we prolly get another shot at a ring if not for that..... Maybe, Who knows?

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 06:17 PM
Did I say it was all Bens fault? No. I said Ben played bad in the 1st half. Did he or did he not? Ben had 4 turnovers in the game, what team wins under those conditions? Not many. Is Ben our best player? FOR SURE. But if your going to give him credit (as I do) you have to give him some blame as well (whats wrong with that?). For those of you that said it was the defense. Lets look at the stats from that game. Garrard 58 yards, Tayllor 48 and Jones Drew 29 yards. Facts are facts, the D did their job. Garrard was 9-21 for 141 yards 1 TD and 2ints. Again, the D did their job. Someone blamed the running game. Please keep in mind that our LEADING rusher was hurt and we had to play with soft Najeh, dont think losing your top rusher is a factor? Again, I KNOW nobody can play the perfect game and nobody does but the fact of the matter is Ben gave up 4 turnovers and its HARD to win under those circumstances in the playoffs. Facts are facts.

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 06:21 PM
I dont know why people cant or wont be objective

fansince'76
08-11-2008, 06:29 PM
Like I said, last year, water under the bridge, had these same arguments right here 7 months ago, not going to repeat them.

X-Terminator
08-11-2008, 06:31 PM
Did I say it was all Bens fault? No. I said Ben played bad in the 1st half. Did he or did he not? Ben had 4 turnovers in the game, what team wins under those conditions? Not many. Is Ben our best player? FOR SURE. But if your going to give him credit (as I do) you have to give him some blame as well (whats wrong with that?). For those of you that said it was the defense. Lets look at the stats from that game. Garrard 58 yards, Tayllor 48 and Jones Drew 29 yards. Facts are facts, the D did their job. Garrard was 9-21 for 141 yards 1 TD and 2ints. Again, the D did their job. Someone blamed the running game. Please keep in mind that our LEADING rusher was hurt and we had to play with soft Najeh, dont think losing your top rusher is a factor? Again, I KNOW nobody can play the perfect game and nobody does but the fact of the matter is Ben gave up 4 turnovers and its HARD to win under those circumstances in the playoffs. Facts are facts.

You sure did say - pretty much - that it was all Ben's fault because of his poor play in the first half and "giving away" 17 points. Let's ignore that the running game didn't do much, and wouldn't have done much had Parker played. The Jags' run D is very stingy. Let's also ignore that despite the D's play numbers-wise, after Ben led the team back in the 2nd half and the game was on the line, they did not get the job done. Let's also ignore that Daniel Sepulveda picked the worst possible time to have a bad punt that put the Jags near mid-field, setting up the game-winning drive.

Objectivity works both ways, bro. I have no problem giving Ben some of the blame for his play in the first half, but I refuse to put it all on him when there is PLENTY of blame to go around.

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 06:42 PM
Your biased. Lets consider all of your points and they are well taken. Are you telling me that 4 turnovers dont TRUMP all of those points? Rashean scored on one pick. Rasheans second pick he ran to the 20 (14points). Then we are driving on the Jags 27 Ben throws his 3rd pick (screen pass lineman picks) (-3 points for us they go down and score 3). Then with : 37 seconds left and all we need is a fg what happens? Ben fumbles, game over. Your kidding yourself if you think those 4 turnovers dont trump ANYTHING that happened in the game. Funny the Steelers players voted Harrison MVP and not Ben. Something to ponder.

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 06:46 PM
Worth noting I dont agree with the Team voting James MVP. I would vote Ben hands down but I do recognize that when Ben plays well so does the team and when Ben plays bad, so does the team. That goes with ANY team. How mr Favre play in the Giants NFC Championship game? What happened?. How good would the Pats be without Brady? Not very. My point is, its starts with the Qb and what makes Ben such a consumate professional is that he recognizes that and is always a stand up guy when he has a bad game. Very admirable. Some of you should follow Bens lead.

X-Terminator
08-11-2008, 07:12 PM
Your biased. Lets consider all of your points and they are well taken. Are you telling me that 4 turnovers dont TRUMP all of those points? Rashean scored on one pick. Rasheans second pick he ran to the 20 (14points). Then we are driving on the Jags 27 Ben throws his 3rd pick (screen pass lineman picks) (-3 points for us they go down and score 3). Then with : 37 seconds left and all we need is a fg what happens? Ben fumbles, game over. Your kidding yourself if you think those 4 turnovers dont trump ANYTHING that happened in the game. Funny the Steelers players voted Harrison MVP and not Ben. Something to ponder.

Wait...what? You've spent the majority of your previous few posts bashing Ben while ignoring the other problems the Steelers had in that game...and I'M the one who's biased???

Please.

Watching the game with a truly objective eye and paying attention to more than just the friggin QB does not make me biased. Not in the least. Again, I think Ben definitely deserves criticism for his first half performance in that game. No denying that. But there were other factors that contributed to the loss that cannot and should not be ignored. Blaming or focusing squarely on the QB's mistakes, IMO, is the easy way out.

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 07:27 PM
Again, 4 turnovers as I documented them all were CRUCIAL to the end result. The points you made were FACTORS but not as crucial. If I BASHED Ben, please copy and paste it and show me what I said. I merely stated the facts. Please look up the word bash and please show me where I did that to our Qb. Present your proof if your truthful.

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 07:29 PM
Notice he never mentioned how I said "ben played up to his ability in the 2nd half". "Ben is our best player". "We go as Ben goes", "Ben gets the credit when we win" among other positive comments. I'm fair and hardly have a bias.

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 07:32 PM
For those of you who would like to relive that painful game then be my guest.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29517&season=2007&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&week=POST18

stillers4me
08-11-2008, 07:37 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/sueincinci/Smileys/lastyear.gif

xfl2001fan
08-11-2008, 07:38 PM
Scalaid, you won't be able to win against the guys you're arguing with. They're stubborn.

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 07:41 PM
I see that Xfl2001fan. But I'm a fair guy and you and I both know we NEED Ben but is he beyond criticism? By no means. I'm not worried about stubborn guys. I have learned that the truth knocks the brains out of falsehood. Thx for the advice, I appreciate it!

Sharkissle29
08-11-2008, 09:09 PM
^^ post profanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofa nityfilterprofanityfilter :-P

X-Terminator
08-11-2008, 09:12 PM
Scalaid, you won't be able to win against the guys you're arguing with. They're stubborn.

Whatever dude. If merely expressing my point of view is being "stubborn," then I guess I'm guilty.

I see that Xfl2001fan. But I'm a fair guy and you and I both know we NEED Ben but is he beyond criticism? By no means. I'm not worried about stubborn guys. I have learned that the truth knocks the brains out of falsehood. Thx for the advice, I appreciate it!

I don't believe I ever said Ben was beyond criticism - in fact, I stated to the contrary not once, but twice. I simply said that he should not get ALL of the criticism. Big, big difference.

X-Terminator
08-11-2008, 09:16 PM
Again, 4 turnovers as I documented them all were CRUCIAL to the end result. The points you made were FACTORS but not as crucial. If I BASHED Ben, please copy and paste it and show me what I said. I merely stated the facts. Please look up the word bash and please show me where I did that to our Qb. Present your proof if your truthful.

Saying that those 17 points Ben "gave away" led to the loss pretty much means you put the blame squarely on his shoulders. Hell, you didn't even consider those other factors until I brought them up. If you feel that Ben should shoulder the lion's share of the blame for the loss, then be my guest. It's still taking the easy way out, IMO.

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 09:17 PM
Whatever dude. If expressing my point of view is being "stubborn," then I guess I'm guilty.



I don't believe I ever said Ben was beyond criticism - in fact, I stated to the contrary not once, but twice. I simply said that he should not get ALL of the criticism. Big, big difference.

Ok fair enough. Please copy and paste or quote where I said Ben gets ALL of the blame? I watched the video again and I say 4 turnovers by ONE guy and that hurts ANY team. Is it ALL his fault? Of course not but had he played like he did in the 2nd half, in the 1st half be honest do you think we would have won? I think we would have.

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 09:18 PM
For the record what is the name of the guy in my sig?

xfl2001fan
08-11-2008, 09:24 PM
For the record what is the name of the guy in my sig?

Scalaid6? It's in big font!:flap:

X-Terminator
08-11-2008, 09:24 PM
Ok fair enough. Please copy and paste or quote where I said Ben gets ALL of the blame? I watched the video again and I say 4 turnovers by ONE guy and that hurts ANY team. Is it ALL his fault? Of course not but had he played like he did in the 2nd half, in the 1st half be honest do you think we would have won? I think we would have.

Of course they would have won had he played in the 1st half the way he did in the 2nd half. And I never disagreed with the main point about the 4 turnovers hurting the team. I strongly disagree that those turnovers were THE deciding factor in the game, but rather a CONTRIBUTOR, just as the other scenarios I mentioned were contributors. I have never been one to place an unfair amount of blame on one person, nor am I one who feels that the QB should get most of the blame when the team loses or most of the credit when they win. Last I checked, football was a TEAM sport, meaning you win and lose as a team. That is the reason for my entire point of view.

lilyoder6
08-11-2008, 09:50 PM
point is that the TEAM should be blamed 4 the game.. the running game was horse shit, the def couldn't stop shit..

xfl2001fan
08-11-2008, 09:52 PM
It is a team game, but his individual performance did much to cause the problem.

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 10:28 PM
You made the point that its a TEAM game and I agree but that point is flawed and overused. For example, do the Steelers sign the TEAM to a $100 million dollar contract? If its a TEAM sport then why arent the interviews dispersed evenly amongst the TEAM? Do the rest of the members of the TEAM get the same amount of endorsements? How come the TEAM didnt go to Hawaii with Ben? As you can see your point is silly. The reality of it all is the BEST players get the most glory AND the most blame when they deserve it and whats wrong with that?

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 10:29 PM
Scalaid6? It's in big font!:flap:

Nice one :rofl:

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 10:34 PM
And if the D couldnt stop anything then why did Garrard,Jones-Drew and Taylor only rush for 135 between the 3 of them? Thats 40 yards apiece sir (damn good) and that D held Garrard to 104 yards passing (pretty good).

X-Terminator
08-11-2008, 10:57 PM
You made the point that its a TEAM game and I agree but that point is flawed and overused. For example, do the Steelers sign the TEAM to a $100 million dollar contract? If its a TEAM sport then why arent the interviews dispersed evenly amongst the TEAM? Do the rest of the members of the TEAM get the same amount of endorsements? How come the TEAM didnt go to Hawaii with Ben? As you can see your point is silly. The reality of it all is the BEST players get the most glory AND the most blame when they deserve it and whats wrong with that?

It may be played by individuals and some get more exposure than others, but it's still a TEAM game. My point still stands. And I still do not agree that the QB should shoulder most of the blame when other areas are flawed. Sorry. It's your right to believe otherwise.

I also never said the D didn't stop anyone. I said they didn't stop them at the end of the game when it mattered most, and the fact is they didn't. But all some people want to focus on are the 4 Ben turnovers, while the D gets a free pass because they played well up until that point.

Anyway, I'm done. All I'm going to do is start repeating myself and we're never going to see eye-to-eye, so I'll just agree to disagree and move on.

Scalaid6
08-11-2008, 11:46 PM
Look at the D's stats above (VERY GOOD) and Bens stats (300 yards 3 tds and 4turnovers). Its not rocket science, turnover LOSE GAMES. I love Ben but when he screws up I will say it, like in the Arizona game, did the TEAM throw that pick when we were on the 2 yard line? Why did Wisenhunt put 8 men in the box that whole game and dare Ben to beat them? Because he knows that under durress Ben is shaky and prone to turn the ball over (fact). Is Ben making progress? YES but is he like Brady or Peyton? No. Lastly, in Cowhers last season how did Ben do? How did the team do? Point made. And please spare me with the motorcycle accident and apendectomy etc because if he was hurt he shouldnt have been out there. My point is teams do as well as the Qb and thats all I'm saying and if you look at ALL of our losses from last season you will see a trend (even the Ravens game were Ben didnt play. How did Batch do? How did we do? EXACTLY!)

paw-n-maul-u
08-12-2008, 02:45 AM
Look at the D's stats above (VERY GOOD) and Bens stats (300 yards 3 tds and 4turnovers). Its not rocket science, turnover LOSE GAMES. I love Ben but when he screws up I will say it, like in the Arizona game, did the TEAM throw that pick when we were on the 2 yard line? Why did Wisenhunt put 8 men in the box that whole game and dare Ben to beat them? Because he knows that under durress Ben is shaky and prone to turn the ball over (fact). Is Ben making progress? YES but is he like Brady or Peyton? No. Lastly, in Cowhers last season how did Ben do? How did the team do? Point made. And please spare me with the motorcycle accident and apendectomy etc because if he was hurt he shouldnt have been out there. My point is teams do as well as the Qb and thats all I'm saying and if you look at ALL of our losses from last season you will see a trend (even the Ravens game were Ben didnt play. How did Batch do? How did we do? EXACTLY!)

... please see denver 2005 AFC championship game. Under duress?? ... maybe like ... playing in mile high and your running game only gets 90 yards on 33 carries?? ... QB's have ups and downs, just because ben didn't take us far in the playoffs last year doesn't mean he shouldnt be mentioned with Brady and Manning as one of the top 4-5 QB's in the league... he's elite already ...

I figure over 75 percent of the teams in the league would mortgage a draft to get Big Ben right now, i would consider that elite. as i would 102 million buckaroos

Scalaid6
08-12-2008, 05:12 AM
Well if you think Ben is in the league of Brady/Manning your high. Funny you site a gome in 05 arent we in 08? Will you have to go that far back to site a game for the aformentioned two? Guaranteed the Colts/Pats WONT trade Brady/Peyton for Ben but the Steelers would trade Ben for either of them in a heartbeat. Again, am I saying Ben is a bum? Of course not but the only guy that tells the truth about him is myself and Jaws. Ben played good in that Denver game so thanks for substantiating my point.

stlrtruck
08-12-2008, 10:23 AM
I would put Ben in the same league as brady and peyton. Why do we think they are so much better? Because the media hypes them up to the point that we only hear about them - unless favre comes out of retirement or carson has one game throwing for 400 yards, etc.

Rarely does Ben get the mention. Why? Because he's not the glamor pick. He's not a pretty boy. He's big, rugged, and he plays the game with the "old-school" mentality. He's not a media guy and he doesn't blame others (see peyton and brady when they lose a game).

Ben has gotten better year in and year out. He's not only proven to be a game manager but he's proving that he can lead this team even in the face of adversity. He may not throw for 5,000 yards or 60 TDs in a season but I didn't know it was stats alone that made a QB elite.

But in retrospect I don't care if the media ever hypes him up to be an elite QB. Just as long as he brings home a lot more SB trophies.

Scalaid6
08-12-2008, 10:43 AM
I will agree that Ben has gotten better year in and year out BUT hes not on the level of Brady and Peyton sorry. Does Ben have better tools? Yes, Hes bigger, stronger and has a better arm than both but the seperation in talent is UPSTAIRS. Those two have the ability to process the information quickly and get the ball out and make good decisions. The better defenses still confuse Ben (Pats,Jags, Ravens). Of course this is based on his past. He looked GREAT in that 1st series vs Eagles and as I said he has gotten better every year. Everyone has seen our schedule, so this season we will see how well he does against that schedule. I'M ROOTIN FOR YA BEN!!

fansince'76
08-12-2008, 11:34 AM
Well if you think Ben is in the league of Brady/Manning your high. Funny you site a gome in 05 arent we in 08? Will you have to go that far back to site a game for the aformentioned two? Guaranteed the Colts/Pats WONT trade Brady/Peyton for Ben but the Steelers would trade Ben for either of them in a heartbeat. Again, am I saying Ben is a bum? Of course not but the only guy that tells the truth about him is myself and Jaws. Ben played good in that Denver game so thanks for substantiating my point.

So against the Chargers in last year's AFCCG, and his team winning against basically San Diego's 2nd string offense and still managing to advance to SB XLII despite his THREE interceptions, Brady is elite and Ben's not? Golden Boy looked pretty damn average to me when his line for once couldn't give him 5 minutes to throw in the SB, which is the kind of pressure Ben dealt with last season on a weekly basis. How about Manning's 6-pick game against the Chargers last year? Even a week after getting his brains scrambled (see Oakland game, '06) Ben has never thrown 6 picks in a game. And Manning was anything BUT impressive in the '06 playoffs. The Colts' D rose to the occasion and that's what finally got them over the hump more than anything Manning did. Let's look at Manning's statlines game by game for the '06 playoffs (when for once, he finally DIDN'T choke and the Colts won it all), shall we?

WC game against the chiefs: 30-38, 268 yards, 1 TD, 3 INTs
Div game against the Ravens: 15-30, 170 yards, 0 TD, 2 INTs
AFCCG game against the Patriots: 27-47, 349 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
SB XLI against the Bears: 25-38, 247 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT

Sorry dude, but if you think those are "elite" numbers, you're the one who's high. But whatever. Keep drinking the ESPN hype Kool-Aid. Like stlrtruck said, Ben isn't widely considered to be in the same class as Brady and Manning simply because his jizz isn't dripping from the chins of the pundits in the sports media. People who actually watch the games and can think for themselves know better.

Scalaid6
08-12-2008, 01:56 PM
I cant believe how BIASED you guys are. Hey I bleed black and gold but you KNOW. The Pats would not trade Brady for Ben and you KNOW you wouldnt either if you owned the Pats. Funny you took ONE game. How bout Brady's whole season? Are you serious? Who bases an argument on a FEW GAMES? As I said Ben has better Physical tools but not mentally, sorry. I disect Qbs and Brady has the UNDERSTANDING that Ben does not. I dont automatically say my guy is better JUST BECAUSE HE HAPPENS TO PLAY ON MY TEAM. Like I said the Steelers would trade Ben for Tom in a heartbeat but the Pats certainly WOULD NOT. ESPN? Your funny, I just proved I dont have a bias by picking 2 qbs over my own, showes I'm being honest. Like I said, with our schedule we shall see. I guess the WHOLE NFL is listening to ESPN too. In a poll of players who would the players select? Heck, the Steelers OWN players didnt even pick Ben as their MVP, imagine that. I guess the media got to them too. Lol

fansince'76
08-12-2008, 02:04 PM
I cant believe how BIASED you guys are. Hey I bleed black and gold but you KNOW. The Pats would not trade Brady for Ben and you KNOW you wouldnt either if you owned the Pats. Funny you took ONE game. How bout Brady's whole season? Are you serious? Who bases an argument on a FEW GAMES? As I said Ben has better Physical tools but not mentally, sorry. I disect Qbs and Brady has the UNDERSTANDING that Ben does not. I dont automatically say my guy is better JUST BECAUSE HE HAPPENS TO PLAY ON MY TEAM. Like I said the Steelers would trade Ben for Tom in a heartbeat but the Pats certainly WOULD NOT. ESPN? Your funny, I just proved I dont have a bias by picking 2 qbs over my own, showes I'm being honest. Like I said, with our schedule we shall see. I guess the WHOLE NFL is listening to ESPN too. In a poll of players who would the players select? Heck, the Steelers OWN players didnt even pick Ben as their MVP, imagine that. I guess the media got to them too. Lol

You think Brady would have survived (much less thrive like Ben did) behind our OL last year? Besides, why would we trade a QB who hasn't even entered his prime yet for someone who will be out of his prime in about 3-4 years (even fewer for Manning)?

Do you also realize that by staying in late in the 4th quarter of blowout games to run up the score and pad his stats that last season was the FIRST in Brady's career where he had over 30 TDs? Ben also had 30+ TDs last year, so on that count they're even. Also, it seems to me it would be a lot easier to "process information quickly" when you're being fed the opposing team's defensive alignments through your headset.

You're the one who asked if "we'd have to go back to '05 to cite a playoff game" where Manning or Brady played well. I showed you how Manning's postseason numbers in '06 when the Colts won the SB were far from stellar and mentioned how the Patriots won the AFCCG last year despite 3 picks by the Golden Boy, and how average he looked in the SB when he finally had to deal with the kind of pressure Ben had to deal with on a weekly basis and then you changed the argument. YOU are the one who isn't being honest here.

Scalaid6
08-12-2008, 02:39 PM
I do. Brady gets the ball out fast thats what Ben is learning. You can blame the O-line all you want. Now whos listening to the media? I watched EVERY game and trust me some of those sacks were on Ben, not getting rid of the ball quick enough (as wisenhuntAND arians have both admitted). You would trade him because they are BETTER thats why, simple. Brady didnt get 30 by staying in late, he got 30 because he had MOSS, a fact. He has also won with mediocre wrs in the past hasnt he? So Brady's success is based on cheating? Your not one of those kind of fans are you? I could site MANY Playoff games where Ben didnt play well your point is baseless. According to YOU GUYS Ben is the best Qb ever. I'm a fan but I'm not biased. I wont say Tomlin is the best coach just because hes on my team. I wont say Ben is the Best Qb just because hes on my team. As I said its mighty funny the Steelers team dont feel as you do, why wasnt he MVP? Brady didnt look average to me in the SB, sure he had lots of pressure and I seen him perform under it and lead his team to the goahed td, thats what I saw, obviously you were watching channel zero.

fansince'76
08-12-2008, 02:46 PM
I do. Brady gets the ball out fast thats what Ben is learning. You can blame the O-line all you want. Now whos listening to the media? I watched EVERY game and trust me some of those sacks were on Ben, not getting rid of the ball quick enough (as wisenhuntAND arians have both admitted). You would trade him because they are BETTER thats why, simple. Brady didnt get 30 by staying in late, he got 30 because he had MOSS, a fact. He has also won with mediocre wrs in the past hasnt he? So Brady's success is based on cheating? Your not one of those kind of fans are you? I could site MANY Playoff games where Ben didnt play well your point is baseless. According to YOU GUYS Ben is the best Qb ever. I'm a fan but I'm not biased. I wont say Tomlin is the best coach just because hes on my team. I wont say Ben is the Best Qb just because hes on my team. As I said its mighty funny the Steelers team dont feel as you do, why wasnt he MVP? Brady didnt look average to me in the SB, sure he had lots of pressure and I seen him perform under it and lead his team to the goahed td, thats what I saw, obviously you were watching channel zero.

Some of them were on Ben, but I guess in your mind that means all 47 were his fault? Brady wouldn't have lasted past week 10 behind our OL last year and he did look average in the SB under pressure, sorry. You can slob his knob all you want, but it's a fact. They would have put up more than 14 points if he didn't. He came through on one drive after how many 3-and-outs? He also turned the ball over to the Giants on a fumble, and as you stated, turnovers by the QB lose games. Where's your criticism of Brady for that one? And yeah, I don't think the cheating hurt the Pats* win total a bit over the last 7 years.

Scalaid6
08-12-2008, 02:46 PM
This is my last post on Ben I dont want to sound like a Ben basher. Hes our guy and I back him 100% but for the record HES NO BRADSHAW.

Scalaid6
08-12-2008, 02:48 PM
LOL Turnovers by another Qb are detrimental but not ours? CAN YOU SAY OXYMORON?. Sorry sir I dont slob on knobs that would be your brother.

fansince'76
08-12-2008, 02:53 PM
LOL Turnovers by another Qb are detrimental but not ours? CAN YOU SAY OXYMORON?. Sorry sir I dont slob on knobs that would be your brother.

No, by your logic, only Ben's turnovers deserve criticism.

Scalaid6
08-12-2008, 02:56 PM
If thats what you get out of my posts then as I said, you have a bias. Sorry if you cant handle the truth then you shouldnt engage in dialogue with me sir.

fansince'76
08-12-2008, 02:58 PM
If thats what you get out of my posts then as I said, you have a bias.

Look at the D's stats above (VERY GOOD) and Bens stats (300 yards 3 tds and 4turnovers). Its not rocket science, turnover LOSE GAMES.

Brady didnt look average to me in the SB, sure he had lots of pressure and I seen him perform under it and lead his team to the goahed td, thats what I saw, obviously you were watching channel zero.

Again, where is the criticism of Brady for the fumble? How about his 3 picks in the AFCCG that the Patriots still managed to win?

SteelMember
08-12-2008, 02:58 PM
So how does Dixon work into all this "knob Slobbin'"?:noidea:

Did he pass that test too? What team is he on? Team America...

Scalaid6
08-12-2008, 03:33 PM
Brady is NOT known for turning the ball over sir. He is known for making good decisions. You bring up individual games,whereas I look at careers. If you wanna put Bens career up against Bradys then Be my guest, it will only substantiate that your an ignoramous. If you wanna put up Bens career vs Bradshaw be my guest, it will only prove that your an ignoramous. If you wanna put up Bens career vs Peyton, fine be my guest it will only prove that your an ignoramous. Do you see a theme here? Yes, your an ignoramous.

fansince'76
08-12-2008, 03:45 PM
Brady is NOT known for turning the ball over sir. He is known for making good decisions. You bring up individual games,whereas I look at careers.

For a guy who looks at "whole careers," you sure as hell seem fixated on a couple of games here.

like in the Arizona game, did the TEAM throw that pick when we were on the 2 yard line?

Did I say it was all Bens fault? No. I said Ben played bad in the 1st half. Did he or did he not? Ben had 4 turnovers in the game.

Yes, your an ignoramous.

If ever the old cliché "takes one to know one" were more apropos.... :yawn:

fansince'76
08-12-2008, 03:56 PM
Brady is NOT known for turning the ball over sir. He is known for making good decisions.

lMn8Kg7Mgl0

Great playoff game red zone decision making there, Tom! Woohoo! :jerkit:

RWAa7Sm7APs

Another great playoff game decision in the red zone there, Tom! Woohoo! :jerkit:

Sorry, couldn't find a good clip of Golden Boy's game-losing INT against the Colts on the last drive of the '06 AFCCG, but you get the picture here. Of course, considering who I'm talking to here, maybe ya don't. Just to make my point perfectly clear here, Brady has turned in his share of clunker playoff performances as well (along with Manning), but you never really hear about them because of the sports media's constant and nonstop Brady ballwashing. Like I said before, people who actually watch the games and can think for themselves know the real deal.

stlrtruck
08-12-2008, 04:17 PM
First, I believe the personal attacks can stop. There really is no need for it here, especially amongst family.

Second, if you take a look at the careers of the elite, brady and peyton, and their first 4 years in the league I believe what you'll find is that neither of them compare to the first 4 years of Ben's.

Third, I wouldn't trade Ben for brady or peyton. Both have huge ego's that over shadow the efforts of the team. Ben has shown that he's an elite QB by not being that ego-maniac that eventually destroys teams.

Fourth, while I don't mind honesty sometimes honesty doesn't mean truth. And while it seems that we'll disagree on this point, IMHO, Ben is above brady and peyton and the only reason he isn't regarded as much in the media is because he wasn't a top 5 pick that came to a team that needed a QB to turn them around. He came to a team that had their pieces in place, he was the missing piece that contributed to a SB ring. While I'm not for certain, I feel pretty confident that peyton had to wait to get to his elite status even though his name propelled him. And even brady had pieces in place, there will forever be an asterik near those years for the infamous "spygate" and even without it, he's career stats his first 4 years don't support his elite status. But I digress, let the media and anyone else continue to hype them - I'd take BEN ANYDAY and EVERYDAY over those two!

Finally, I believe that Dixon can be a decent #2. Will it be this year, obviously not but he's got potential and he can be a gimmick player as well as a game changer before securing his role as the #2.

Prok
08-12-2008, 04:39 PM
This is my last post on Ben I dont want to sound like a Ben basher. Hes our guy and I back him 100% but for the record HES NO BRADSHAW.


Bradshaw threw INT's and fumbled in the SB and had to overcome..... Just sayin....

fansince'76
08-12-2008, 04:40 PM
Bradshaw threw INT's and fumbled in the SB and had to overcome..... Just sayin....

Yep, 3 in SB XIV as a matter of fact, and he still got MVP for the game (should have been Stallworth, and even Bradshaw has admitted it).

Scalaid6
08-12-2008, 04:42 PM
Again, there is always an exception to the rule. Brady has 3 sb and he posts some youtube highlights of mistakes WOW. I'm no Brady fan nor Peyton but they are Better and you know it and SO IS BRADSHAW. Thats my point. Guys are obviously uninformed if you formulate an argument and say Brady was a top 5 pick, Come now. I dont see either of the 3 having big egos, not Ben, not Brady and not Peyton. All humble down to earth guys who were all 3 in the Pro bowl by the way 1. Brady 2. Peyton 3. Ben. Coincidence? As I said, I see PROGRESS in Ben and he has BETTER TOOLS than both of them (funny nobody quotes the postives) but if your telling me he reads defenses better and quicker than the two, your lying and have a bias.

Scalaid6
08-12-2008, 04:44 PM
Again, Bradshaws, Brady and Peytons mistakes count but Bens dont?? WOW
Compare Bens SB game to ANY of Bradshaws and tell me what you find lol

fansince'76
08-12-2008, 04:54 PM
Again, Bradshaws, Brady and Peytons mistakes count but Bens dont?? WOW
Compare Bens SB game to ANY of Bradshaws and tell me what you find lol

A win is a win is a win, that's my point. You've been crucifying Ben for every mistake he makes, and giving passes to the others.

Scalaid6
08-12-2008, 04:57 PM
Define crucifying and you will see that your WRONG in your assement of what I say about Ben. I merely tell the truth about him and you guys cant accept it.

fansince'76
08-12-2008, 05:25 PM
I merely tell the truth about him and you guys cant accept it.

I haven't seen "truth," which infers "fact" in this thread yet, just opinions. You gave Ben stick earlier in this thread for throwing a pick at the 2-yard line in a regular season game. I post two clips of Brady throwing picks in the red zone in playoff situations, and you throw back "there is always an exception to the rule," and "Brady has 3 SBs," as if those rings exonerate those mistakes. Yep, your analysis has been completely fair and factual and full of "truth." All I can say about Brady's "3 SBs" is that he's damn lucky his PK was Vinatieri and not Norwood. And the assertion that Ben doesn't "process information" or "think fast enough" is another crock perpetuated by the sports media ever since he did a faceplant into that car's windshield. Kinda easy to go through your progressions when you're given an hour's worth of pocket time like Brady and Manning typically are given as opposed to the .8 seconds Ben's OL usually gives him, and Ben still threw for more TDs and fewer INTs than Manning last year. Despite that, he was still named as the AFC's 3rd QB in the Pro Bowl BEHIND Manning, which points back to the fact that he simply does not get the face time or the pub in the sports media that Manning and Brady get. And any GM who would agree with you and trade Ben for Manning or Brady at this point is a fool who should be fired. In five years, Manning will more than likely be retired, and very possibly Brady will be too, and Ben will be in the prime of his career. Yeah, that'd be a brilliant trade.

lilyoder6
08-12-2008, 06:12 PM
rly? the d was so damn good.. then y did the jags score so much then if the d was SO GOOD??? exactly if the D was SO GOOD they wouldn't of let them score so much.. nice try tho. and about the team thing going to hawaii.. the pro-bowl are for players who were voted not teams.

paw-n-maul-u
08-12-2008, 06:44 PM
yeah that is just foolishness ... and actually, there is NO WAY IN THE WORLD that the steelers would trade Ben for peyton or brady ... that's just really ... really ... dumb.

ben has about four or five years on both of them ... more upside ... jeez the list goes on.

and Fansince76 said it best ... Manning and Brady are just kool-aid household names that get their media hype from the talking heads on ESPN, Fox, etc ...

Scalaid6
08-12-2008, 07:32 PM
The Jags scored so much DUE to TURNOVERS. lol Did you see the game? Did you see the post game stats? The D did their job.
And the other guy is an obvious Brady hater. The media? Would I be a steeler fan if I was swayed by the media? I would be a Cowboy fan or Pats fan. The fact of the matter is if you watch EVERY Steeler game Ben DOES process the information slowly against good D's (see ALL PATS GAMES). I see Wisenhunt felt the same, I see our coaching staff saide the same (last season) and lastly look at Bens season he had, why didnt his OWN TEAM vote him the team MVP? That rings volumes. Now is he getting better? YES, Has he developed into a good Qb? YEP Did he look Good in our 1st preseason game? YEP. If he has time to throw the ball will he hurt a D? Yep. But ANY pro QB will do that. The measure of a great Qb is what he does UNDER DURRESS and under Durress Ben worries me. Dont worry during the season I will be right here rooting on the Steelers, Ben doesnt have MANY weaknessess but you guys dont have to get butt sore just because I point out his only one. And to bash Bradshaw to make a point is BLASPHEMY.

Scalaid6
08-12-2008, 07:33 PM
Yeah its not like Peyton and Brady deserve any hype either huh? lmao

Scalaid6
08-12-2008, 07:36 PM
Honestly, I think Ben will surpass them in popularity once he plays on that level. Hes got a better personality, more accessible and has more appeal. Funny how the Fox Espn media blast as you allege doesnt affect the fan base. Why do the Steelers have more fans than the Pats or Colts? Your media point is without merit.

xfl2001fan
08-12-2008, 07:45 PM
The wheels on this thread go round and round....

fansince'76
08-12-2008, 07:57 PM
The measure of a great Qb is what he does UNDER DURRESS and under Durress Ben worries me.

Kinda like how Brady folded like a cheap lawnchair in this past SB?

Prok
08-12-2008, 08:00 PM
Kinda like how Brady folded like a cheap lawnchair in this past SB?


Kinda how every QB does under severe duress.

Somethin' tell's me this guy flat out don't like Ben. Ah well.

lilyoder6
08-12-2008, 08:06 PM
i only beleive that the 1 turnover was returned 4 a td... so that still leaves out the other points that the jags scored.. and the d didn't do there job b/c they still let the jags put up 24 points who w/e other than the int td...

Preacher
08-12-2008, 08:08 PM
Scalaid6 (http://forums.steelersfever.com/member.php?u=8924)

When you take that name... and run it through the enigma machine (I just happen to have one here next to me :chuckle:) It is amazing what pops out...


J E R E M Y (G. S. )


Hmmmmmmmm Coincidence?

fansince'76
08-12-2008, 08:14 PM
Scalaid6 (http://forums.steelersfever.com/member.php?u=8924)

When you take that name... and run it through the enigma machine (I just happen to have one here next to me :chuckle:) It is amazing what pops out...


J E R E M Y (G. S. )


Hmmmmmmmm Coincidence?

Doubt it - he hasn't referred to Ben as "Godsend" or "Saint Ben." :chuckle:

tony hipchest
08-12-2008, 08:26 PM
Scalaid6 (http://forums.steelersfever.com/member.php?u=8924)

When you take that name... and run it through the enigma machine (I just happen to have one here next to me :chuckle:) It is amazing what pops out...


J E R E M Y (G. S. )


Hmmmmmmmm Coincidence? :chuckle: wow! you have an enigma machine????

does it work for diahrea AND constipation?

Preacher
08-12-2008, 08:36 PM
:chuckle: wow! you have an enigma machine????

does it work for diahrea AND constipation?

No..

But maybe this will help

:buttkick:

:chuckle:

Scalaid6
08-12-2008, 08:46 PM
1 TD VS THE JAGS? Why are you in the debate? You obviously dont know what your talking about sir for reference watch the video I posted ( it was 17points). Of course I like Ben but more than that I like the STEELERS. I liked the Steelers before Ben and I will like them after Ben. Obviously you guys cant take a guy passing out constructive criticism. Funny how Tomlin said "Bens gotta get the ball out of his hand quicker" as did Arians as did Wisenhunt the year before. Why would Wisenhunt put 8 in the box vs us? He did it because he KNOWS Ben is shaky under durress. Why was Wisenhunt CONSTANTLY yelling at Ben?? Why did Ben tell management "I dont respond well when yelled at ". If you dont like me criticizing Ben too bad. When he plays well I'll be the 1st to say hes playing up to his capabilities. Say what you will our season ended due to Bens poor play in the 1st half and the TEAMS vote on MVP SUBSTANTIATES THAT.

xfl2001fan
08-12-2008, 08:58 PM
Round and round!

Scalaid6
08-12-2008, 09:13 PM
Hey XFL!

Prok
08-12-2008, 09:28 PM
1 TD VS THE JAGS? Why are you in the debate? You obviously dont know what your talking about sir for reference watch the video I posted ( it was 17points). Of course I like Ben but more than that I like the STEELERS. I liked the Steelers before Ben and I will like them after Ben. Obviously you guys cant take a guy passing out constructive criticism. Funny how Tomlin said "Bens gotta get the ball out of his hand quicker" as did Arians as did Wisenhunt the year before. Why would Wisenhunt put 8 in the box vs us? He did it because he KNOWS Ben is shaky under durress. Why was Wisenhunt CONSTANTLY yelling at Ben?? Why did Ben tell management "I dont respond well when yelled at ". If you dont like me criticizing Ben too bad. When he plays well I'll be the 1st to say hes playing up to his capabilities. Say what you will our season ended due to Bens poor play in the 1st half and the TEAMS vote on MVP SUBSTANTIATES THAT.

Provide proof of any of that and ya stand a chance at validity.

I recall the Cards dropping in coverage more against us and keeping their safeties back because as you stated Whiz knows Ben's tendencies.....

Scalaid6
08-12-2008, 10:32 PM
Proof of what? Mathis one td, second pick by Mathis ran it to the 23 or so, scored again. Then we were driving Ben threw the pick on screen pass to Dlineman they scored fg (17points) Please check the video I posted yesterday for validation. In regards to the 8 man in the box. Willie with 37 yards substantiates that sir.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/recap?gid=20070930022

Preacher
08-12-2008, 11:00 PM
our season ended due to Bens poor play in the 1st half and the TEAMS vote on MVP SUBSTANTIATES THAT.

1. The teams vote was for the MVP over the year... it had nothing to do with one game.

2. We were AHEAD in that game and punted the ball. Our defense could not hold the lead.

3. Our defense allowed what... 2, 3 RB's to go over 100 yards in the last half of last year.

Sorry , it is the defense that lost that game. Ben made up for his faults. We were ahead with just a hundred or so seconds on the clock... and our defense folded and let the Jags walk into the endzone.

lilyoder6
08-12-2008, 11:41 PM
again.. the def let the other 10 points... the def should of did there job and stop them 2 a fg on the 2nd pick and on the fumble they should of stopped them b4 they even got close to field goal range.. so i guess if jeef reed misses a fg then we should blame it on ben 4 not getting a TD??

Scalaid6
08-13-2008, 01:22 AM
I get it we hold the Defense accountable but NOT Ben lol. How would you like to be on D and have the offense spot the other team 17 points. The MVP vote happened at the end of the season and guess what was fresh on there minds? THOSE TURNOVERS. Do you really think James was MVP? Come on now. And I posted the stats. Not one of the Jags backs got over 60 yards (nice try). We dont mention the fact that 2 starters were absent (Smith/Troy). Sorry you CANT ever get 17 points back., you NEVER make that up, I dont care if you do go ahead, take care of the ball, thats the recipe for success. How many teams win who turn the ball over 4 times. I guarantee NOT MANY.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29517&season=2007&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&week=POST18

X-Terminator
08-13-2008, 01:37 AM
1. The teams vote was for the MVP over the year... it had nothing to do with one game.

Not to mention the fact that the voting was done prior to the Steelers' final regular season game:

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=22507&highlight=James+Harrison

Honestly, I don't know why you guys are even bothering. You'd be better off banging yourself in the head with a sledgehammer or listening to Emmitt Smith give a speech. Either option would be far less painful.

Scalaid6
08-13-2008, 06:31 AM
You got that wrong sir. In my case it would be more like Merril Hodge, not Emmitt Smith. Get it right. And nowhere in your link does it say when the voting took place. Dont you find it odd that the TEAM has never voted him MVP?

HometownGal
08-13-2008, 07:02 AM
Doubt it - he hasn't referred to Ben as "Godsend" or "Saint Ben." :chuckle:

And not once has he stated that Ben refused to sign an autograph for a kid because he didn't have big "tatas". :toofunny:

Scalaid6
08-13-2008, 07:13 AM
No sir, I tell the truth about Ben. Ben has the ability (physically) to be the best but he also acts like a little kid on the field. He needs to focus and be less playful and focus on the matter at hand. Like Brady when A. Smith gave that prediction. Brady got in his face and called him on it. Ben is a nice guy and I'd like to see him show a little mean streak at times. I like a buthole for a leader like Marino or Elway they had spunk. Ben is a genuinely nice person, not a bad thing but I'd like to see him mow a defender over and yell GET OFF ME! instead of going into a pile soft like Najeh. Confidence is a good thing, Bradshaw had a nasty streak and it showed on the field. Ben is best friends with Brett Keisel I like that, I hope some of Brett swagger rubs off on Ben.

X-Terminator
08-13-2008, 07:25 AM
You got that wrong sir. In my case it would be more like Merril Hodge, not Emmitt Smith. Get it right. And nowhere in your link does it say when the voting took place. Dont you find it odd that the TEAM has never voted him MVP?

Look at the friggin date on the article, SIR. December 26, 2007. 4 days before the final game of the season, which would mean the voting was conducted BEFORE THEN. NOT after the first playoff game, which was January 5, 2008, SIR.

GOD, it's obvious that you can't freaking read.

And no, I didn't find it odd that the TEAM didn't vote Ben MVP. Why? Because you could have also made a legitimate argument for not only him, but Harrison and Willie Parker as well. You're obviously trying to use that as a way to point out that the team either doesn't like, were upset with or doesn't respect Ben, and that's complete bullshit - it implies no such thing, only that a majority of the players voted for Harrison. Plus, neither you nor anyone else knows anything about the voting process, so quit acting like you do.

fansince'76
08-13-2008, 07:32 AM
No sir, I tell the truth about Ben. Ben has the ability (physically) to be the best but he also acts like a little kid on the field. He needs to focus and be less playful and focus on the matter at hand. Like Brady when A. Smith gave that prediction. Brady got in his face and called him on it.

Brady is a prissy, whiny little metrosexual bitch that cries to the refs for a flag anytime anybody so much as breathes on him. I don't want the QB of the Steelers to be like that, sorry. Golden Boy also acted like the smug, arrogant prick he is over Plax's SB prediction as well. How'd that turn out? You can get off Golden Boy's jock anytime you feel like it. The man-crush you obviously have for him is beyond nauseating.

Scalaid6
08-13-2008, 07:51 AM
In not here to defend Brady its obvious you have your issues with him. I feel the same about him as I did about Staubach, didnt like him but he sure scared me and I respected his game. So I have a mancrush on Brady but you dont on Ben? No sir, I merely tell the truth EVEN IF ITS ABOUT MY TEAM OR NOT. You can make all the excuses you want but the fact of the matter is the TEAM didnt vote Ben MVP and that makes me say hmmmmm and that is why your mad. Why the anger? Are you ok?
HIDE ALL SHARP OBJECTS!

fansince'76
08-13-2008, 07:52 AM
In not here to defend Brady its obvious you have your issues with him. I feel the same about him as I did about Staubach, didnt like him but he sure scared me and I respected his game. So I have a mancrush on Brady but you dont on Ben? No sir, I merely tell the truth EVEN IF ITS ABOUT MY TEAM OR NOT. You can make all the excuses you want but the fact of the matter is the TEAM didnt vote Ben MVP and that makes me say hmmmmm and that is why your mad. Why the anger? Are you ok?
HIDE ALL SHARP OBJECTS!

I'm not the one dwelling on a playoff game from 7 months ago. :coffee:

Scalaid6
08-13-2008, 08:02 AM
I dont think I'm dwelling on a playoff game from 7 months ago. I think I'm HOPING my Qb continues to improve, I merely cited the playoff game as a bad 1st half and it was (no disputing that). I just want my Qb to play up to his potential as he did in the 2nd half. We have a TOUGH schedule and we need our Qb to be at his best EVERY WEEK as I only see two gimme games Texans/Titans and they arent guaranteed.

stlrtruck
08-13-2008, 09:36 AM
I dont see either of the 3 having big egos, not Ben, not Brady and not Peyton. All humble down to earth guys

You telling me that Peyton waving the punting team or kicking team off the field isn't an ego? Brady with his constant whining when he get touched on the football field or his constant, "That should have been a penalty because my guy didn't catch the ball" mentality isn't about his ego.

Sorry, not buying that one.

stlrtruck
08-13-2008, 09:40 AM
Yeah its not like Peyton and Brady deserve any hype either huh? lmao

They don't deserve the over-hype they've received. When I'm watching a game that they aren't playing in and it's a good game but I've got to hear play in and play out about how if Manning or Brady were playing - blah, blah, blah. Don't care for it. They're overhyped.

stlrtruck
08-13-2008, 09:43 AM
Why do the Steelers have more fans than the Pats or Colts? Your media point is without merit.

To forego the lengthy history lesson I'll give you the condensed version.

Pittsburgh steel mills shut down. Thousands leave in droves. Move their families across the country. Have children, and raise their children as Steelers fans. Those children have children and the cycle continues.

Then there are people like me who was lucky enough that before the NFL moved to their local black out rules was able to watch the Steelers where he lived. There was no media hype - just football - STEELERS FOOTBALL.

lilyoder6
08-13-2008, 09:44 AM
like i said again retardo.. on the fumble they were at our 20 so they had to drive 60-70 yrds to get into fg range.. so y didn't the d stop them there??? and when they were on there 23 after the pic, they should of stepped up and force them to make a fg.. wow ben had 3 TO's and only 1 was returned 4 a td the other 2 could of been stopped to just 3 points if the d would of stepped up.. so put all the blame on ben if u want but ur a fing moron if u do as i see that the team lost that game not just ben

stlrtruck
08-13-2008, 09:46 AM
Say what you will our season ended due to Bens poor play in the 1st half and the TEAMS vote on MVP SUBSTANTIATES THAT.

Just curious how many Team MVPs Bradshaw earned? I'm pretty sure he didn't get it every year. I dont' see Peyton and Brady getting team MVPs every year....why is that..

BECAUSE IT'S A TEAM SPORT!!!!

stlrtruck
08-13-2008, 09:52 AM
I understand what you're saying, I do but it's not the TRUTH. It's your opinion. And it's obvious that your opinion is in the minority. You may continue to think that Ben is sub-elite QB based a few games that you've mentioned (which I find ironic because you first began talking about careers then moved to games).

Ben has a stellar career thus far and it's going to get better. Not every year is going to be a league MVP year which it sounds like you expect (with the exception of the aforementioned overhyped QBs listed in this thread).

Statistically, Ben has produced better in his first 4 years on the field then either Brady or Peyton. The difference is that Brady has 3 SB rings that aren't without their controversy, and Peyton has been lighting up scoreboards for the last 5+ years. Ben doesn't have 3 SB rings with controversy and the Steelers don't light up the scoreboards - but Ben produces and isnt' that what makes an athlete elite? Or is it the media hype?

DACEB
08-13-2008, 09:55 AM
Ben produces and isnt' that what makes an athlete elite? Or is it the media hype?

:applaudit:

X-Terminator
08-13-2008, 11:13 AM
In not here to defend Brady its obvious you have your issues with him. I feel the same about him as I did about Staubach, didnt like him but he sure scared me and I respected his game. So I have a mancrush on Brady but you dont on Ben? No sir, I merely tell the truth EVEN IF ITS ABOUT MY TEAM OR NOT. You can make all the excuses you want but the fact of the matter is the TEAM didnt vote Ben MVP and that makes me say hmmmmm and that is why your mad. Why the anger? Are you ok?
HIDE ALL SHARP OBJECTS!

So let me get this straight...pointing out the fact that Harrison won because he got the majority of the votes and not because of some perceived (by you) backlash against Ben is making an excuse? Man, there is something seriously wrong with your brain if you really believe that.

Were you in the locker room when these votes were tallied? Did you have any input on how or why the players voted the way they did? Did you somehow get inside their heads to know what they were thinking when they cast their ballots? No? Then how in the blue hell do you know why the majority voted for Harrison? You don't. Speculation IS NOT the truth, no matter how much you want to believe it so. On top of that, by questioning why Harrison won is also implying that he wasn't deserving of the award, when he clearly was. It's not like they chose some jabroni for the award.

BTW, Harrison is on record as saying he voted for Ben.

Also, you did not address the fact that I proved you dead-assed wrong on the timeline for the voting. Can't say I'm surprised, because after all, you're always right! :coffee:

And contrary to what you may think, I'm not mad. It just irks the hell out of me when someone is being deliberately obtuse.

X-Terminator
08-13-2008, 11:14 AM
Just curious how many Team MVPs Bradshaw earned? I'm pretty sure he didn't get it every year. I dont' see Peyton and Brady getting team MVPs every year....why is that..

BECAUSE IT'S A TEAM SPORT!!!!

Not according to this guy. Apparently, everything begins and ends with the QB, and the other 52 guys don't matter. :doh:

The Duke
08-13-2008, 04:46 PM
guys!!

I think we all know who to blame, and that's willie. just put the blame on willie and move on :chuckle:

lilyoder6
08-13-2008, 05:12 PM
i mean come on.. i think that harrison won it b/c of the fact was that he was a back-up not so big b4 the season and he had to replace joey porter.. and he came in and played huge and was an outstanding player.. i think he deserves something 4 being a bench player to a dominationg pro bowl lb

Scalaid6
08-13-2008, 05:21 PM
Of course James is gonna say he voted for Ben, whats he supposed to say? "I voted for me" I LOVE ME SOME ME! Come on. My point is James was NOT the MVP in my opinion it was BEN but for some reason his teammates didnt think so and I wonder why? To be a leader you have to earn your teams respect and I think Ben is making strides in that regard but he needs to be more mature in his actions and not act so boyish all the time. Again, he has better skills than Brady or Peyton he just isnt at the level of understanding as they are and thats ALL I'm saying. I guess you can add NFL.com to the list of biased media outlets because they rate Qbs like this in fantasy. 1. Brady 2. Manning 3. Romo 4.Brees 5. Palmer and 6.Ben. So I guess they are drinking the kool aid you guys were referring to too hunh?

HometownGal
08-13-2008, 05:28 PM
I guess you can add NFL.com to the list of biased media outlets because they rate Qbs like this in fantasy. 1. Brady 2. Manning 3. Romo 4.Brees 5. Palmer and 6.Ben. So I guess they are drinking the kool aid you guys were referring to too hunh?

Now I've really heard it all. Wow - NFL.com FF rankings - what a reliable source! :doh::doh::doh: You're close to getting the Snerd award. :wink02:

X-Terminator
08-13-2008, 05:32 PM
OK, that does it. I am officially done with this entire conversation. My IQ has already dropped 10 points and I'm sick of beating my head against the wall. :banging: Everyone on the team hates Ben and that's why they voted for Harrison for MVP, because Scalaid6, mind reader and resident expert on all things Steelers, who actually believes fantasy rankings are a true indicator of a players worth and talent, says so.

*sighs* It's going to be another long, long season...

Note: Still no response to be proven wrong about the voting timeline, and I'm no less surprised.

xfl2001fan
08-13-2008, 06:25 PM
The Wheels on this thread go round and round...all through the day!

stlrtruck
08-13-2008, 06:27 PM
Of course James is gonna say he voted for Ben, whats he supposed to say? "I voted for me" I LOVE ME SOME ME! Come on. My point is James was NOT the MVP in my opinion it was BEN but for some reason his teammates didnt think so and I wonder why? To be a leader you have to earn your teams respect and I think Ben is making strides in that regard but he needs to be more mature in his actions and not act so boyish all the time. Again, he has better skills than Brady or Peyton he just isnt at the level of understanding as they are and thats ALL I'm saying. I guess you can add NFL.com to the list of biased media outlets because they rate Qbs like this in fantasy. 1. Brady 2. Manning 3. Romo 4.Brees 5. Palmer and 6.Ben. So I guess they are drinking the kool aid you guys were referring to too hunh?

There in should lie the end of this conversation, IN YOUR OPINION.

A QB is not going to win Team MVP every year. Forget about it. It takes all 53 guys to pull it together and you're going to have 2-3 standouts on offense and defense. And when the defense is considered one of the tops in the league statistically and not fantasy, then you may want to consider that an option for the Team MVP being a defensive player.

And if you think that a players Fantasy Football ranking has any play in whether a player is elite is ridiculous. I could create a fantasy league that made Jon Kitna a #1 if I change the points system appropriately. But dont' worry one day they'll play the game on the field where things like stats truly mean something other than fantasy points.

stlrtruck
08-13-2008, 06:28 PM
The Wheels on this thread go round and round...all through the day!

you're just racking up posts...you wh@re :flap:

HometownGal
08-13-2008, 06:33 PM
you're just racking up posts...you wh@re :flap:

Yeppers - my thoughts exactly. :thumbsup:

Prok
08-13-2008, 06:35 PM
I'm through with this thread as well. Oh please for the love of God don't let me ever go to a Steeler game and have to sit next to Tossed Scalad. lol

xfl2001fan
08-13-2008, 06:39 PM
Is nobody else sick of seeing the same circular arguments made page after page? That's all I was trying to say...but I couldn't (this being a Steelers site) thinking about Jerome "Bus" Bettis and his freaking song before your last SB. That's why there are three separate posts in this thread (almost like mini-commercials) that all tie in like that.

Scalaid6
08-13-2008, 06:53 PM
Of course your done you have no ground to stand on. Fantasy ratings are based on what? PRODUCTION. I dont agree with Brees being voted over Ben but Brees does have better understanding of the game. Being wrong? I'll have you know that I am wrong over 100 times a day sir. Perfection is for God and I'm not him. Look at the fantasy ratings and your telling me this is no gauge for talent or productivity? And you guys are fans? You are, BIASED ONES lol

Scalaid6
08-13-2008, 06:56 PM
If you sit next to me you will get a lesson in objectivity lol "Everyone hates Ben' The most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. People draw the wrong conclusions when you dont agree with them. Shoulda heard what I was saying about fat boy Bettis two years ago or Big Mouth low production Joey Porter. It is what it is.

Preacher
08-13-2008, 07:10 PM
you're just racking up posts...you wh@re :flap:

Yeppers - my thoughts exactly. :thumbsup:



What are you talking about?













:chuckle:

Prok
08-13-2008, 07:28 PM
What are you talking about?













:chuckle:

Hey i like your Sig, Preacher.

Are you really a preacher?

Not quite done with this thread, i need to get acclimated to this site anyways. :)

lilyoder6
08-13-2008, 07:38 PM
i see that the blame is getting taken away from willie and given to ben

HometownGal
08-13-2008, 07:38 PM
Look at the fantasy ratings and your telling me this is no gauge for talent or productivity? And you guys are fans? You are, BIASED ONES lol

As far as "stats" go, you're correct, but stats don't mean diddly doo as far as gauging a player's talents or contributions to his team.

A word of advice. Please - if you want to survive and prosper on this board, don't ever question anyone's loyalty as a Steelers fan because your opinion differs from theirs. That just isn't fair and it may cost you a cyber a$$-kickin. :buttkick:

xfl2001fan
08-13-2008, 07:47 PM
Of course your done you have no ground to stand on. Fantasy ratings are based on what? PRODUCTION.

Carson Palmer is usually a great fantasy QB to have on an annually losing team. (That 12-4 season was clearly an anomaly). The only stats that matter are the Ws and the Ls. Everything else is irrelevant.

X-Terminator
08-13-2008, 09:11 PM
Of course your done you have no ground to stand on. Fantasy ratings are based on what? PRODUCTION. I dont agree with Brees being voted over Ben but Brees does have better understanding of the game. Being wrong? I'll have you know that I am wrong over 100 times a day sir. Perfection is for God and I'm not him. Look at the fantasy ratings and your telling me this is no gauge for talent or productivity? And you guys are fans? You are, BIASED ONES lol

I know I said I was done, BUT...that right there makes your entire argument moot. And if you really think that fantasy ratings are an accurate representation of a player's worth, then tell me why Brees is ranked ahead of Ben when Ben had better stats last season? Ben also had better stats than Cartoon Palmer, yet Palmer is rated higher. Remember, you said that rankings are based on PRODUCTION, not a "better understanding of the game."

Bias my ass. That's always an excuse someone gives whenever they shoot off their mouths and get called out on it.

fansince'76
08-13-2008, 09:24 PM
Yep, FF rankings - explains a ton, and I'm not the least bit surprised considering the source. :rolleyes:

stlrtruck
08-13-2008, 10:24 PM
Of course your done you have no ground to stand on. Fantasy ratings are based on what? PRODUCTION. I dont agree with Brees being voted over Ben but Brees does have better understanding of the game. Being wrong? I'll have you know that I am wrong over 100 times a day sir. Perfection is for God and I'm not him. Look at the fantasy ratings and your telling me this is no gauge for talent or productivity? And you guys are fans? You are, BIASED ONES lol

Ok seriously, fantasy points are also based on grading scales. Where each league can create it's own point system based on performance.

No, looking at fantasy ratings in no way a gauge for talent or productivity. The scoring systems aren't accurate enough. On any given week, Peyton can go from the best QB on a fantasy league to the worse.

Yes, I'll admit I'm a biased fan. Don't hide it. However, I'm also objective enough to say that Ben does belong in the category of "Elite QBs" in the league. He's he the absolute #1 QB in the league, NO - but he's definitely in their class!

tony hipchest
08-13-2008, 11:20 PM
Carson Palmer is usually a great fantasy QB to have on an annually losing team. (That 12-4 season was clearly an anomaly). The only stats that matter are the Ws and the Ls. Everything else is irrelevant.

11-5. dont give credit where creadit aint due.

xfl2001fan
08-14-2008, 08:12 AM
11-5. dont give credit where creadit aint due.A fluke is a fluke...that tells you how much I paid attention to that fluke season.

stlrtruck
08-14-2008, 08:59 AM
A fluke is a fluke...that tells you how much I paid attention to that fluke season.

Now if you would only face the reality of the browns season last year and you'll be on your way to recovery...and possibly a Steelers fan.

I'm holding out hope for you. :rofl: :flap:

lilyoder6
08-14-2008, 02:03 PM
well i just did a ff draft and.. and AP is the 5th best player in the league!!!!!!!

Lord Stiller
08-14-2008, 02:29 PM
A fluke is a fluke...that tells you how much I paid attention to that fluke season.

the real fluke season was Cleveland actually having a winning record last year :toofunny:

xfl2001fan
08-14-2008, 06:04 PM
the real fluke season was Cleveland actually having a winning record last year :toofunny:

We shall see. Our offensive line is amongst the best in the NFL, giving up only 14 sacks after the pimp-beating we took in W1. If our D-line manages to perform well and we can generate some passrush, we're actually built to last for at least a few more years (though a few of those contracts are going to hurt us 2-3 years after this season.)

Cincy has good skill players on offense....and what?

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-14-2008, 06:29 PM
We shall see. Our offensive line is amongst the best in the NFL, giving up only 14 sacks after the pimp-beating we took in W1. If our D-line manages to perform well and we can generate some passrush, we're actually built to last for at least a few more years (though a few of those contracts are going to hurt us 2-3 years after this season.)

Cincy has good skill players on offense....and what?

I think you are gonna see a lot of game plans like the Steelers of 2003-2004 did. Spread the field, go 4 and 5 wide, throw at those weak Browns DB's and then your Offense has to get in a shootout.

The clock will probably strike 12 on Anderson and usher in the Brady Quinn era after a 8-8 or 9-7 season and he will get traded like Drew Brees-Phylis Rivers scenario.

My prediction is the Steelers will mix it up vs. the Browns, but have a hard time vs the rushing defense and you will see........ Ward, Holmes, Sweed, Washington and a mix of Parker/Moore spreading the field out. Gonna be like 1995 all over again with 5 wide.

Lord Stiller
08-14-2008, 06:37 PM
Cincy has good skill players on offense....and what?

well atleast you are only hoping to finish in 2nd place

xfl2001fan
08-14-2008, 06:47 PM
well atleast you are only hoping to finish in 2nd place

2nd place isn't good enough for me. For the price we paid to bring in the players we brought in...an AFCN title is the only way I'll be satisfied.

I think you are gonna see a lot of game plans like the Steelers of 2003-2004 did. Spread the field, go 4 and 5 wide, throw at those weak Browns DB's and then your Offense has to get in a shootout.

The clock will probably strike 12 on Anderson and usher in the Brady Quinn era after a 8-8 or 9-7 season and he will get traded like Drew Brees-Phylis Rivers scenario.

My prediction is the Steelers will mix it up vs. the Browns, but have a hard time vs the rushing defense and you will see........ Ward, Holmes, Sweed, Washington and a mix of Parker/Moore spreading the field out. Gonna be like 1995 all over again with 5 wide.

That depends on the kind of pass-rush we can generate. One thing Pittsburgh has almost always done well is rush the passer, allowing any flaws in the secondary to be hidden quite effectively. Your DC has been great at mixing up the looks not allowing offense to really settle down. Are there times it doesn't work...certainly.

Consistent pass rush is the key to our defense. If we can't get it, we have to hope we can play like the Colts in the early part of this century...mad offense with just enough defense.

Against this schedule, that's going to be one hell of a feat. Fortunately, the Steelers have a tougher schedule...and that will also have to play a part in our winning the AFCN.

Despite the upbeat coming out of Cleveland...real Cleveland fans (not trolls/homers) recognize that the road to the AFCN runs by I-76 just East of Youngstown.

Stlrs4Life
08-14-2008, 06:48 PM
Boy this thread went from 1 extreme to the next didn't it?

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-14-2008, 06:57 PM
2nd place isn't good enough for me. For the price we paid to bring in the players we brought in...an AFCN title is the only way I'll be satisfied.



That depends on the kind of pass-rush we can generate. One thing Pittsburgh has almost always done well is rush the passer, allowing any flaws in the secondary to be hidden quite effectively. Your DC has been great at mixing up the looks not allowing offense to really settle down. Are there times it doesn't work...certainly.

Consistent pass rush is the key to our defense. If we can't get it, we have to hope we can play like the Colts in the early part of this century...mad offense with just enough defense.

Against this schedule, that's going to be one hell of a feat. Fortunately, the Steelers have a tougher schedule...and that will also have to play a part in our winning the AFCN.

Despite the upbeat coming out of Cleveland...real Cleveland fans (not trolls/homers) recognize that the road to the AFCN runs by I-76 just East of Youngstown.

You said it. Tough sched, but the Steelers have an even tougher one. I still think you are due a couple staph infections, Anderson will play OK, but cause a lot of "WE WANT BRADY!!" calls.

You can have one of the best pass rushes in the league, but if the opposing offense just throws 5 yard passes and gets another 5 RAC.......against those DB's. Its gonna be more like the Houston Oilers of the 90's. Having to win games 49-45.

Sorry to disapoint, but one solid year of film on Derek Anderson for D coordinators and a weak secondary add up to another mistake-on-the-lake season. 8-8 or 9-7 is my prediction.

xfl2001fan
08-14-2008, 07:31 PM
You said it. Tough sched, but the Steelers have an even tougher one. I still think you are due a couple staph infections, Anderson will play OK, but cause a lot of "WE WANT BRADY!!" calls.

You can have one of the best pass rushes in the league, but if the opposing offense just throws 5 yard passes and gets another 5 RAC.......against those DB's. Its gonna be more like the Houston Oilers of the 90's. Having to win games 49-45.

Sorry to disapoint, but one solid year of film on Derek Anderson for D coordinators and a weak secondary add up to another mistake-on-the-lake season. 8-8 or 9-7 is my prediction.

With the AFCN schedule, that 9-7 could win the division this year. Derek is still a question mark, admittedly. However, news out of our camps is that he's gotten better at the short to intermediate throws, where he was particularly weak.

Our DBs are athletic but small. I'm hoping that they can become Antoine Winfield type players. Guys who aren't afraid to come up in run support...and have enough athletic ability to cover bigger receivers.

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 06:40 AM
For all of you FOOLS who say fantasy ratings (NFL.COM) have no merit or dont gauge productivity. I challenge you to view the following lists from NFL.com and there fantasy ratings are PRETTY ACCURATE AS I SAID.

1. Tom Brady 2. Peyton Manning 3. Tony Romo 4. Drew Brees 5. Carson Palmer 6. Ben Roethlisberger 7. Matt Hasselbeck 8. Derek Anderson 9.Donovan McNabb 10. Brett Favre


1. LaDainian Tomlinson 2. Adrian Peterson 3. Brian Westbrook 4. Steven Jackson 5. Joseph Addai 6. Clinton Portis 7. Frank Gore 8. Marion Barber 9. Marshawn Lynch 10. Larry Johnson


1. Randy Moss 2. Terrell Owens 3. Reggie Wayne 4. Braylon Edwards 5. Andre Johnson 6. T.J. Houshmandzadeh 7. Larry Fitzgerald 8. Chad Johnson 9. Marques Colston 10. Plaxico Burress


***BUT NO, FANTASY RATINGS IS NO WAY TO GAUGE PRODUCTIVITY. Some of you have your mouths in overdrive while your brain is in neutral.

X-Terminator
08-15-2008, 07:47 AM
For all of you FOOLS who say fantasy ratings (NFL.COM) have no merit or dont gauge productivity. I challenge you to view the following lists from NFL.com and there fantasy ratings are PRETTY ACCURATE AS I SAID.

1. Tom Brady 2. Peyton Manning 3. Tony Romo 4. Drew Brees 5. Carson Palmer 6. Ben Roethlisberger 7. Matt Hasselbeck 8. Derek Anderson 9.Donovan McNabb 10. Brett Favre


1. LaDainian Tomlinson 2. Adrian Peterson 3. Brian Westbrook 4. Steven Jackson 5. Joseph Addai 6. Clinton Portis 7. Frank Gore 8. Marion Barber 9. Marshawn Lynch 10. Larry Johnson


1. Randy Moss 2. Terrell Owens 3. Reggie Wayne 4. Braylon Edwards 5. Andre Johnson 6. T.J. Houshmandzadeh 7. Larry Fitzgerald 8. Chad Johnson 9. Marques Colston 10. Plaxico Burress


***BUT NO, FANTASY RATINGS IS NO WAY TO GAUGE PRODUCTIVITY. Some of you have your mouths in overdrive while your brain is in neutral.

I'm pretty sure when reporters, etc. are commenting on a player's productivity, they don't pull up NFL.com's fantasy rankings as a credible source. And again, Ben had better stats than both Palmer and Brees and had a higher QB rating than P. Manning (2nd in the NFL behind Marsha Brady), but yet, he's only ranked 6th? Most people would probably tell you that Tomlinson had an below-average season and Brees was absolutely HORRIBLE the first half of last season. Yet Tomlinson is 1st among RBs and Brees is 4th among QBs. Ben, however, was pretty consistent all of last season despite playing behind an awful OL. I will give you the WRs, though I'd probably rank Houshmandzadeh ahead of A. Johnson. That is why fantasy ratings are not an accurate judge of a player's worth and value to a team, or their overall game play, because lists like that are completely ARBITRARY. You can go to any number of fantasy sites and their rankings will probably be different.

I'm sure you'll disagree and call us all stupid though.

Alva Lord
08-15-2008, 08:41 AM
Timmons and Dixon did past the eyeball test against the Bills. They were two of the very limited bright spots on the team.

xfl2001fan
08-15-2008, 08:44 AM
For all of you FOOLS who say fantasy ratings (NFL.COM) have no merit or dont gauge productivity. I challenge you to view the following lists from NFL.com and there fantasy ratings are PRETTY ACCURATE AS I SAID.

1. HEEHAW

2. HEEHAW

3. HEEHAW

***BUT NO, FANTASY RATINGS IS NO WAY TO GAUGE PRODUCTIVITY. Some of you have your mouths in overdrive while your brain is in neutral.

Alright, now you're just talking like a jackass.

Yes, TO is a TD producing WR. So is Reggie Wayne. But there's more to being a productive player than just Fantasy stats. How many fantasy points does Hines Ward get for pancake blocks? Replace Hines Ward with Reggie Wayne...and how many long runs does FWP miss out on?

How important was Joe Jurevicious to the Browns on third down compared to other downs? Where do those numbers come up?

What about the plays that Santonio Holmes creates for TE Heath to catch passes? Do you understand what I mean by that? When he runs a deep post pattern on a Cover-2 defense, he is drawing the Safeties attention away from Heath who could be running a deep slant. Heath catches the pass, but it's Holmes playmaking ability and route that opens things up for Heath? Show me where that plays into Fantasy!

You can live in your Fantasy world...I'll live in the real world.

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 11:45 AM
Semantics. is LT the best RB in the game or isnt he? Ben had better stats than palmer/brees LAST YEAR. These lists are compiled based on what players do over the years and or projections. They take into consideration injuries etc. Fact is this list is a good gauge of who is rellevant and who is not. Your in denial if you see ANY afficionado put Ben over Brady/Peyton.

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 11:48 AM
You make valid points but why are the aforementioned players that you cited NOT among the top paid wrs in the game? They are not because of the system they are in and the lack of consistent productivity. Yes Hines has the intangibles that cant be measured by numbers but I will take a td machine like Marvin Harrison anyday. Its all about SCORING in the National Football League.

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 11:50 AM
I'm pretty sure when reporters, etc. are commenting on a player's productivity, they don't pull up NFL.com's fantasy rankings as a credible source. And again, Ben had better stats than both Palmer and Brees and had a higher QB rating than P. Manning (2nd in the NFL behind Marsha Brady), but yet, he's only ranked 6th? Most people would probably tell you that Tomlinson had an below-average season and Brees was absolutely HORRIBLE the first half of last season. Yet Tomlinson is 1st among RBs and Brees is 4th among QBs. Ben, however, was pretty consistent all of last season despite playing behind an awful OL. I will give you the WRs, though I'd probably rank Houshmandzadeh ahead of A. Johnson. That is why fantasy ratings are not an accurate judge of a player's worth and value to a team, or their overall game play, because lists like that are completely ARBITRARY. You can go to any number of fantasy sites and their rankings will probably be different.

I'm sure you'll disagree and call us all stupid though.

I'm not going by ANY OTHER fantasy site except NFL.COM and thats the ONLY one I have quoted. And they are accurate as heck, as I have proven.

paw-n-maul-u
08-15-2008, 11:56 AM
Fantasy ratings are absolute jokes. Fantasy ratings are for fools who don't know much about football and need a rough outline of who to draft where, but the dumb@$$ talking heads of ESPN, NFL.com, etc.

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:03 PM
If you look at that list it is PRETTY accurate. Be in denial all you want but the list is a good compillation of whos who in the NFL. Say what you want.

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 12:04 PM
Ben had better stats than palmer/brees LAST YEAR. These lists are compiled based on what players do over the years and or projections.

OK, let's see then....

Ben = 1 SB ring "over the years"

Palmer AND Brees = 0 SB rings combined "over the years"

The operative word in FF rankings is "FANTASY."

paw-n-maul-u
08-15-2008, 12:12 PM
If you look at that list it is PRETTY accurate. Be in denial all you want but the list is a good compillation of whos who in the NFL. Say what you want.

wow, thanks. I had a hard time figuring that out on my own???

Our discrepancy had nothing to do with whether or not the list was a "who's who" of the NFL. But you put way too much merit into fantasy rankings and don't account for intangibles at all.

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:13 PM
Oh I get it. So we go from INDIVIDUAL to TEAM lol
Sorry fantasy is not based on what a team does. Did BEN win a SB or did the Steelers? And I watched that game and Ben was like a deer in headlights in that game, he played poorly. Nice try

rbryan
08-15-2008, 12:14 PM
Fantasy football is for newbie fans who need someone else to tell them what football is all about. I've been watching for 40 years, I can make up my own mind...Thanks

When they hand out the SB trophy based on "Fantasy" rankings I'll start playing fantasy football.

paw-n-maul-u
08-15-2008, 12:15 PM
Yeah man, instead of arguing w/ us. ha ... y don't you go play fantasy football?

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 12:17 PM
Oh I get it. So we go from INDIVIDUAL to TEAM lol
Sorry fantasy is not based on what a team does. Did BEN win a SB or did the Steelers? And I watched that game and Ben was like a deer in headlights in that game, he played poorly. Nice try

Brady has 3 sb....

Stop contradicting yourself then.

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:17 PM
wow, thanks. I had a hard time figuring that out on my own???

Our discrepancy had nothing to do with whether or not the list was a "who's who" of the NFL. But you put way too much merit into fantasy rankings and don't account for intangibles at all.

My premise was that it is an accurate assessment of who are the best players in the league and I have proved that it is (check the list) Sure you can juggle some players etc but thats not the point. Intangibles are good but guys like Steve Tasker, Hines, Austin (Cowboys) you can have all day but me myself I will take the Ocho Cincos, the Randy Moss', the T.O's they get in the endzone ALOT and thats what I want on my team.

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 12:19 PM
.... but me myself I will take the Ocho Cincos, the Randy Moss', the T.O's they get in the endzone ALOT and thats what I want on my team.

And are locker room cancers who pout, whine, bitch and complain when they don't get their touches and the going gets rough. Thank GOD you're not the Steelers GM.

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:20 PM
Stop contradicting yourself then.

If your going to quote me, Please quote the whole conversation. That was in reference to qbs playing under duress etc. Not in regards to this topic. And if your another trying to convince me that Ben is Better than Brady your as high as the other guys whove said that. Nice try. I'm a steeler fan but my guys dont get a pass JUST because they are my guys

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:21 PM
And pout, whine, bitch and complain when they don't get their touches and the going gets rough. Thank GOD you're not the Steelers GM.

Call it what you want, They are the best wrs in the game and THEY PRODUCE!

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 12:21 PM
If your going to quote me, Please quote the whole conversation. That was in reference to qbs playing under duress etc. Not in regards to this topic. And if your another trying to convince me that Ben is Better than Brady your as high as the other guys whove said that. Nice try. I'm a steeler fan but my guys dont get a pass JUST because they are my guys

Sorry, you used number of rings to make your point, I can do the same.

The Duke
08-15-2008, 12:22 PM
never thought I'd see the day someone would claim a qb is better cause of his fantasy stats :screwy:

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:22 PM
Sorry, you used number of rings to make your point, I can do the same.

Funy you didnt QUOTE the whole article just a piece. Can you say DECPTION??

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 12:22 PM
Call it what you want, They are the best wrs in the game and THEY PRODUCE!

They're gutless locker room cancers that quit on their teams when things go south.

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 12:24 PM
Funy you didnt QUOTE the whole article just a piece. Can you say DECPTION??

:coffee:

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:24 PM
never thought I'd see the day someone would claim a qb is better cause of his fantasy stats :screwy:

If I said someone is better due to fantasy stats then SHOW ME. Show me where I said that. What I said was fantasy RANKINGS is an accurate assessment of who produces and who does not AND IT IS. If its not then Refute the list.

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:25 PM
:coffee:

THATS WHAT I THOUGHT. SILENCE OF THE LAMBS

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 12:26 PM
THATS WHAT I THOUGHT. SILENCE OF THE LAMBS

I could bring up the old adage about the futility in arguing with an idiot, but I'll skip it.

paw-n-maul-u
08-15-2008, 12:27 PM
you are now officially a clown w/ big red shoes.

If you want those guys, Y don't you go be a cowboys, bungles or a gah damn patriots fan. You make me puke.

Just because you posted a link to a list doesn't mean you "proved" anything

... You think ryan grant was on that list last year? ... or Marques Colston the year before?

Ok, we get it. You want players that score lots of points? What person wouldn't want their team to have players on it that score lots of points.

I still don't understand what you are trying to accomplish with arguing this.

And for the record ... Chad Johnson has only had one double digit scoring season ... Hines Ward does those back-to-back and is NEVER a whiney baby bitch that forms stupid Ocho Cinco alter-ego's. But he does get body slammed by James D-bo Harrison.

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:27 PM
They're gutless locker room cancers that quit on their teams when things go south.

I think Favre quit on his team. When did any of those guys quit on their teams. Funny how Bellicheat says "Moss is the smartest wr I have ever been around" Funny the Bungles WOULDNT trade Ocho (wonder why??). and T.O. really quit when he broke his ankle in two places and worked his way back to be the best player on the field in the Super Bowl. YEAH SOME QUITTERS LOL

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:28 PM
I could bring up the old adage about the futility in arguing with an idiot, but I'll skip it.

You would only be applying it to yourself. One thing about you pal you cant run from yourself because wherever you go, THERE YOU ARE!

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 12:29 PM
I think Favre quit on his team. When did any of those guys quit on their teams. Funny how Bellicheat says "Moss is the smartest wr I have ever been around" Funny the Bungles WOULDNT trade Ocho (wonder why??). and T.O. really quit when he broke his ankle in two places and worked his way back to be the best player on the field in the Super Bowl. YEAH SOME QUITTERS LOL

Moss = quit on Minnesota, quit on Oakland.

T.O. = quit on the 49ers, quit on Philly. Actually, he was kicked out of Philly for being such an insufferable assclown (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2216703).

The Bengals wouldn't trade shit-for-brains because they would have been committing cap suicide in doing so.

Next.

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 12:33 PM
You would only be applying it to yourself. One thing about you pal you cant run from yourself because wherever you go, THERE YOU ARE!

No, I know who I'm applying it to. Thanks anyway, pal. :coffee:

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:35 PM
you are now officially a clown w/ big red shoes.

If you want those guys, Y don't you go be a cowboys, bungles or a gah damn patriots fan. You make me puke.

Just because you posted a link to a list doesn't mean you "proved" anything

... You think ryan grant was on that list last year? ... or Marques Colston the year before?

Ok, we get it. You want players that score lots of points? What person wouldn't want their team to have players on it that score lots of points.

I still don't understand what you are trying to accomplish with arguing this.

And for the record ... Chad Johnson has only had one double digit scoring season ... Hines Ward does those back-to-back and is NEVER a whiney baby bitch that forms stupid Ocho Cinco alter-ego's. But he does get body slammed by James D-bo Harrison.

I'm a clown? Thanks for the compliment! I know ocho has his flaws but did he hold out like Hines did? No sir! But that doesnt count becaue your a biased Steeler fan. Let me introduce myself to you. Hi, I work in corrections and I'm around bsers all day. I'm a caucasian male who is constantly around other caucasians who dont like these type of players. I dont feed into all of that crap, I view the world as it is. If a player on the Steelers is wrong I will say it, he doesnt get a pass cause hes on the team I love. I dont get caught up in the media frenzy of slandering athletes like calling Smith a THUG (wreckless journalism). Name one wr on our roster who works harder than T.O. I dont care what the media says about him. Name one wr on our roster who has more knowledge ability than Moss? I'm not defending Ocho, to me hes good because of his QB. Dont worry I'll wait.

paw-n-maul-u
08-15-2008, 12:36 PM
Randy Moss also said next time if he could ... he take his dick out and jiggle it at the GB fans.

Ocho Cinco is a tool.

I stopped taking T.O. serious the second he cried like a brokeback mountain bitch and said "buh, buh, buh, (sniffle sniffle) he's my coiterback!"

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:38 PM
Moss = quit on Minnesota, quit on Oakland.

T.O. = quit on the 49ers, quit on Philly. Actually, he was kicked out of Philly for being such an insufferable assclown.

The Bengals wouldn't trade shit-for-brains because they would have been committing cap suicide in doing so.

Next.

When did Moss quit on Minnesota? Because he walked off of the field with :01 left in a game that was OVER?.Bellicheat did the same in the SB funny how nobody is labelling him a quitter.
When did T.O quit on the 9ers Eagles (substantiate that sir). I recall the eagles suspending him. He was suspended because the QB was jealous of him but how has Philly done since he left? How has T.O done?

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:38 PM
Randy Moss also said next time if he could ... he take his dick out and jiggle it at the GB fans.

Ocho Cinco is a tool.

I stopped taking T.O. serious the second he cried like a brokeback mountain bitch and said "buh, buh, buh, (sniffle sniffle) he's my coiterback!"

SUBSTANTIATE THAT SIR Mere assertions are not proof.

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 12:41 PM
When did T.O quit on the 9ers Eagles (substantiate that sir). I recall the eagles suspending him. He was suspended because the QB was jealous of him but how has Philly done since he left? How has T.O done?

He was suspended because he was a locker room cancer. I don't have to substantiate anything to somebody who quotes FF rankings like they're the gospel. Anybody who knows jack shit about the NFL (hint: you don't, and have demonstrated your ignorance quite thoroughly in this thread) and started following the league before last year knows the deal with T.O., Moss and Chad Johnson.

PalmerSteel
08-15-2008, 12:42 PM
Scalaid6, are you sure your a steelers fan? you are sticking up for the type of guys the steelers never have and never will get. fancy playing media circuses. i think you are a cowgirls fan in disguise.

paw-n-maul-u
08-15-2008, 12:42 PM
How can you intelligently comment on how T. O. "works harder" than any other receiver in the NFL?

Oh, I know because half of the talking heads condemn him for the abundantly talented fool that he is.

The other half say "oh but he works harder than anyone ... if you know T.O."

Don't sit here and talk like you know everything ... esp. when all you are doing is slightly quoting/plagiarizing John Clayton/Keyshawn Johnson ESPN bullshit, as well as posting fantasy football fan ratings. What a joke.

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:43 PM
He was suspended because he was a locker room cancer. I don't have to substantiate anything to somebody who quotes FF rankings like they're the gospel. Anybody who knows jack shit about the NFL and started following the league before last year knows the deal with T.O., Moss and Chad Johnson.

You cant substantiate it because you LYIN. If he was a locker room cancer how come over HALF the team showed up to his bday party WHILE SUSPENDED? I know the deal about T.O and Moss THEY ARE BALLERS who get dealt a bad hand by the media but boy do they produce. If T.O is a locker room cancer how come that cancer didnt spread to Dallas. Did he receive chemotherapy? Is the cancer in remission? I'm confused, please explain.

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 12:46 PM
You cant substantiate it because you LYIN. If he was a locker room cancer how come over HALF the team showed up to his bday party WHILE SUSPENDED? I know the deal about T.O and Moss THEY ARE BALLERS who get dealt a bad hand by the media but boy do they produce. If T.O is a locker room cancer how come that cancer didnt spread to Dallas. Did he receive chemotherapy? Is the cancer in remission? I'm confused, please explain.

Simple - things haven't gotten bad enough in Dallas for the big baby to start whining and complaining yet. He's a frontrunner, just like Moss is. When the team wins, he'll be on his best behavior, and when it doesn't, that's when he starts acting like an ass. Of course, you wouldn't know that, because shitty attitude doesn't show up in the "invaluable" and "infallible" FF rankings. :rolleyes:

paw-n-maul-u
08-15-2008, 12:48 PM
substantiate? what? you obviously don't know anything. Because anyone who knows anything about football knows that

1-randy moss pretty much ran over a Woman with his lexus.

2-Write a check? "nah, straight cash homie"

3- "I'd take my dick out and jiggle it"d

That's just randy moss. please don't get me started oh how T.O.

calling jeff garcia gay (garcia-who is undeniably banging one of the hottest bitches I've ever seen)
Owen's scream fest at McNabb while the steelers were givin them an ass woopin... holy hell, don't you even remember that

The eagles were undefeated. And T.O. was SCREAMING at D. McNabb. You can have some clowns like that all you want broski

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:49 PM
If you guys dont like ESPN then dont watch it. I recently moved FROM pittsburgh I watched EVERY practice for years. I have seen moss' workouts and T.O. and the steelers dont have guys that work like that in the wr postion ( I said Steelers not everyone inthe NFL if you quote me please get it right sir) I GUARANTEE ALL OF YOU WATCH ESPN. Yeah I'm a cowgirls fan. I sure have alot of Steeler knowledge for a Cowgirl fan. No sir, Im just honest and not a Homer.

paw-n-maul-u
08-15-2008, 12:50 PM
dude you can't tell us too substantiate everything. if you don't know, you just don't know. Go google something and read. christ.

You don't know jack, sir.

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 12:52 PM
I sure have alot of Steeler knowledge for a Cowgirl fan.

You do? You haven't demonstrated it one iota in this thread, pal.

paw-n-maul-u
08-15-2008, 12:53 PM
BAHAHAHAHHAHAA. Here i sit and call you out on almost direct quoting the NFL Live staff. and all you have for me is ...


Don't pretend like you don't watch ESPN too!!!!!!!!

Thing is, I'm not dumb enough to quote everything from those fools like scripture like you do.

HometownGal
08-15-2008, 12:54 PM
Funy you didnt QUOTE the whole article just a piece. Can you say DECPTION??

I'm in a giving mood today, so you get two presents! :thumbsup: :chuckle:

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/27060000/27060516.JPG

http://www.paigeparnell.com/images/mortimer.jpg

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:55 PM
substantiate? what? you obviously don't know anything. Because anyone who knows anything about football knows that

1-randy moss pretty much ran over a Woman with his lexus.

2-Write a check? "nah, straight cash homie"

3- "I'd take my dick out and jiggle it"d

That's just randy moss. please don't get me started oh how T.O.

calling jeff garcia gay (garcia-who is undeniably banging one of the hottest bitches I've ever seen)
Owen's scream fest at McNabb while the steelers were givin them an ass woopin... holy hell, don't you even remember that

The eagles were undefeated. And T.O. was SCREAMING at D. McNabb. You can have some clowns like that all you want broski

Randy Moss - that lady was a trafic cop (he never touched her get the story right )

2. staight cash - actual quote that pissed alot of white guys off (alot of caucasian hate rich flamboyant blacks, I'm not one of them, to each his own)

3. Substantiate that quote sir ( I dont believe you)

4. Garcia was caught with a 16 year old girl in his car (T.O commented on the incident and said JOKINGLY Jeff is not a pedophile hes just gay (thats the story sir)
5. T.O. was NOT yelling at mcnabb when we were smashing them (your a liar) he was saying 'WE AINT OUT OF THIS DUNAVIN (T.O TALK) KEEP YA HEAD UP BABY! WE GONE BE ALRIGHT DUNAVIN"

Please refrain from LYIN to make your point its very dishonest. Thx

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:55 PM
I'm in a giving mood today, so you get two presents! :thumbsup: :chuckle:

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/27060000/27060516.JPG

http://www.paigeparnell.com/images/mortimer.jpg

called a typo sir

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:56 PM
BAHAHAHAHHAHAA. Here i sit and call you out on almost direct quoting the NFL Live staff. and all you have for me is ...


Don't pretend like you don't watch ESPN too!!!!!!!!

Thing is, I'm not dumb enough to quote everything from those fools like scripture like you do.

Everything? Show me one other thing that I have quoted from them. Now whos dishonest? lol

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:57 PM
dude you can't tell us too substantiate everything. if you don't know, you just don't know. Go google something and read. christ.

You don't know jack, sir.

Then google and substantiate your claims sir. Dont get mad. SUBSTANTIATE

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 12:57 PM
Randy Moss - that lady was a trafic cop (he never touched her get the story right )

2. staight cash - actual quote that pissed alot of white guys off (alot of caucasian hate rich flamboyant blacks, I'm not one of them, to each his own)

3. Substantiate that quote sir ( I dont believe you)

4. Garcia was caught with a 16 year old girl in his car (T.O commented on the incident and said JOKINGLY Jeff is not a pedophile hes just gay (thats the story sir)
5. T.O. was NOT yelling at mcnabb when we were smashing them (your a liar) he was saying 'WE AINT OUT OF THIS DUNAVIN (T.O TALK) KEEP YA HEAD UP BABY! WE GONE BE ALRIGHT DUNAVIN"

Please refrain from LYIN to make your point its very dishonest. Thx

I bet you play Madden on PS3/XBOX for HOURS on end, don't you?

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 12:59 PM
I bet you play Madden on PS3/XBOX for HOURS on end, don't you?

No, I play people like you ALL DAY lol

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 01:00 PM
called a typo sir

Well, obviously you found the "CAPS lock" key. Now try to figure out what gender the person is you're responding to. I think a moniker like "HometownGal" would be a pretty clear signal you're not talking to a "sir." :banging:

PalmerSteel
08-15-2008, 01:00 PM
hey good point fansince76. lets take scalaid6 thought process one step further. we should already know who's gonna be in the superbowl this year. lets just look at the teams with best rated players on madden! its a done deal!

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 01:01 PM
Well, obviously you found the "CAPS lock" key. Now try to figure out what gender the person is you're responding to. I think a moniker like "HometownGal" would be a pretty clear signal you're not talking to a "sir." :banging:

I said it meant it and I'm here to represent it. Sir was for someone else not you.

paw-n-maul-u
08-15-2008, 01:01 PM
here is randy moss at his finest:

to "substantiate"

FROM FOX NEWS: Randy Moss: (after being fined $10,000 for pretending to pull down his pants and moon the crowd) It ain't nothing but 10 grand. What's 10 grand to me? It ain't shit. Next time I might shake my dick.

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 01:01 PM
No, I play suckers like you ALL DAY lol

You realize that pretty much everyone besides you in this thread is laughing - and it's not WITH you, don't you?

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 01:03 PM
here is randy moss at his finest:

to "substantiate"

FROM FOX NEWS: Randy Moss: (after being fined $10,000 for pretending to pull down his pants and moon the crowd) It ain't nothing but 10 grand. What's 10 grand to me? It ain't shit. Next time I might shake my dick.

LOL
Why not post the link? I have never seen ANY newspaper that has that kind of language. Boy we got some dishonesty on here. Please post that link sir.

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 01:04 PM
Actually that quote was A LIVE INTERVIEW that I saw. He was getting into his vehicle and the last thing he said was "What 10 grand to me" and he drove off. WOW youd lie to make a point? GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 01:04 PM
LOL
Why not post the link? I have never seen ANY newspaper that has that kind of language. Boy we got some LIARS on here. Please post that link sir.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs04/news/story?id=1966180

paw-n-maul-u
08-15-2008, 01:06 PM
http://www.mixmakers.net/forums/nfl-trash-talk/5088-next-time-i-might-shake-my-dick-moss.html

paw-n-maul-u
08-15-2008, 01:07 PM
FINALLLLLLY, thank you Fan Since ... it took me forever to find one that seemed halfway credible... most of the sites I found just had the quotes no article.


Hopefully this shuts that fool up. It is becoming VERY VERY apparent that he knows absolutely nothing of what he talks about

PalmerSteel
08-15-2008, 01:07 PM
scalaid6, thanks for the good laugh for today. i love seeing people like you post that actually think they have one over on everyone else. outta here. keep amusing everyone else. carry on :chuckle:

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 01:07 PM
I said it meant it and I'm here to represent it. Sir

OK, so you like to appear ignorant. Fine.

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 01:08 PM
FINALLLLLLY, thank you Fan Since ... it took me forever to find one that seemed halfway credible... most of the sites I found just had the quotes no article.


Hopefully this shuts that fool up. It is becoming VERY VERY apparent that he knows absolutely nothing of what he talks about

It won't - since they censored out all the profanity, he'll deny that's what was said.

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 01:10 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs04/news/story?id=1966180

In the article I noticed 2 things

1. He CITED THE HATED ESPN BWAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAHHAAAAA

2. No mention of the shaking the dinga ling

AS I SAID YOUR NOT TRUTHFUL

fansince'76
08-15-2008, 01:12 PM
In the article I noticed 2 things

1. He CITED THE HATED ESPN BWAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAHHAAAAA

2. No mention of the shaking the dinga ling

AS I SAID YOUR A LIAR

What else do you think he said he'd shake? As I said, you'd deny it because they censored the profanity out.

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 01:12 PM
Randy Moss - that lady was a trafic cop (he never touched her get the story right )

2. staight cash - actual quote that pissed alot of white guys off (alot of caucasian hate rich flamboyant blacks, I'm not one of them, to each his own)

3. Substantiate that quote sir ( I dont believe you)

4. Garcia was caught with a 16 year old girl in his car (T.O commented on the incident and said JOKINGLY Jeff is not a pedophile hes just gay (thats the story sir)
5. T.O. was NOT yelling at mcnabb when we were smashing them (your a liar) he was saying 'WE AINT OUT OF THIS DUNAVIN (T.O TALK) KEEP YA HEAD UP BABY! WE GONE BE ALRIGHT DUNAVIN"

Please refrain from LYIN to make your point its very dishonest. Thx

#3 is what I asked him to substantiate and DID HE? NO!

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 01:13 PM
SHAKE MY *SS IS WHAT HE SAID

paw-n-maul-u
08-15-2008, 01:14 PM
NO.

He cited espn because it dumb's it down for someone stupid like you to understand.

And funny how fansince called you out perfectly ... god, you really are a tool.

I'm sure randy was just talking about the Hokie-Pokie and wanted to put his left Dick in an shake it all about. lord have mercy on your stupidity and ignorance

Scalaid6
08-15-2008, 01:15 PM
Name ONE NFLer or ANY pro athlete that would say shake my dinga ling and NOT GET SUSPENDED. Are you guys that naive? Desperate? Come on