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View Full Version : What is Russia REALLY doing?


Preacher
08-10-2008, 01:33 AM
Russian jets targeted major oil pipeline-Georgia
09 Aug 2008 14:07:00 GMT
Source: Reuters

TBILISI, Aug 9 (Reuters) - Russian fighter jets targeted the the major Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) oil pipeline which carries oil to the West from Asia but missed, Georgia's Economic Development Minister Ekaterina Sharashidze said on Saturday. "This clearly shows that Russia has not just targeted Georgian economic outlets but international economic outlets in Georgia," she said at a news briefing. There have been no independent verifications of Russian jets targeting the BTC pipeline. (Reporting by Margarita Antidze, writing by James Kilner, editing by Jon Boyle)

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L9618164.htm

tony hipchest
08-10-2008, 01:45 AM
Russian fighter jets targeted the the major Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) oil pipeline which carries oil to the West from Asia but missed,

you know the pilots of those fighter jets that missed? if russia would like, we can wait for them to park their planes, get into their car and drive home, and as theyre putting the key into the lock of their front door, put a 500 pound bunker buster into their culo. :laughing:

either their air force sucks or they were just messing around and trying to send a very threatening message. i would hope our CIA knows which one it is (im thinking the former).

Preacher
08-10-2008, 01:49 AM
What is even more scary...

they went after Georgia partly BECAUSE THEY WERE MOVING TO JOIN NATO.

Thank through that.

They went to war to STOP a nation from joining NATO.

How scary is that?

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L9197241.htm

About half way down.

tony hipchest
08-10-2008, 02:19 AM
yep, and georgia is our ally. im sure g-dub will have a few messages when he gets back from the olympics in china.

Preacher
08-10-2008, 02:45 AM
yep, and georgia is our ally. im sure g-dub will have a few messages when he gets back from the olympics in china.


I think the press inadvertently caught him having a few words with Putin during the opening.

I really don't trust Russia... especially with Iran playing games. It just has WAY too much of a feel of the cold war...

Steelman16
08-10-2008, 03:14 AM
Iran's intentions are pretty obvious...wipe Israel off the map and then it's the U.S.'s turn.

Russia though, kinda scares me.

I'm not really up to all the facts on this developing conflict...why would/is Russia attacking Georgia? What do they have to gain here? Oil assets?

I guess I just don't understand it yet. Then again, who exactly does understand Russia?

MACH1
08-10-2008, 03:28 AM
It could possibly part of a economic war on the U.S. So much as a fart on the oil that supplies the west and prices go through the roof. Russia and Iran seem to be buddying up together and throw China in there with em and the chits gonna hit the fan.
Just a guess.

Aussie_steeler
08-10-2008, 05:39 AM
Russia though, kinda scares me.

I'm not really up to all the facts on this developing conflict...why would/is Russia attacking Georgia? What do they have to gain here? Oil assets?

I guess I just don't understand it yet. Then again, who exactly does understand Russia?

This is totally about oil.

Georgia plans to connect their massive oil supply to the pipes heading to Turkey and not russia.

This is a grab to secure the oil for Russian use. Nothing more.

Terms like ethnic cleansing are designed to divert from the real situation.

Atlanta Dan
08-10-2008, 08:42 AM
Its sphere of influence politics; Russia does not want NATO members on its borders.

Since the U.S. needs Russia on bigger issues (Iran), Georgia is going to find out it guessed wrong if it thought the U.S. and/or European Community were going to make any serious effort to make Russia back down.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/world/europe/10diplo.html?ref=europe

The high price of oil is not just about adverse impacts on our economy; it finances "petro-states" like Russia and Iran.

A renascent and increasingly bellicose Russia is an ominous spectacle for the West too. While China preaches, and largely practices, the doctrine of “peaceful rise,” avoiding confrontation abroad in order to focus on development at home, Russia acts increasingly like an expansionist 19th-century power, pressing at its borders. Most strikingly, Russia has bluntly deployed its vast oil and gas resources to punish refractory neighbors like Ukraine, and reward compliant ones like Armenia.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/weekinreview/10traub.html?ref=europe

revefsreleets
08-10-2008, 10:34 AM
I kind of dig this...let's spin the whole cold war back up, KGB vs. CIA mark II, good spy movies, an enemy we know will never actually attack us and vice verse.

"The Evil Empire" is back, baby!

Preacher
08-10-2008, 11:26 AM
Its sphere of influence politics; Russia does not want NATO members on its borders.

Since the U.S. needs Russia on bigger issues (Iran), Georgia is going to find out it guessed wrong if it thought the U.S. and/or European Community were going to make any serious effort to make Russia back down.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/world/europe/10diplo.html?ref=europe

The high price of oil is not just about adverse impacts on our economy; it finances "petro-states" like Russia and Iran.

A renascent and increasingly bellicose Russia is an ominous spectacle for the West too. While China preaches, and largely practices, the doctrine of “peaceful rise,” avoiding confrontation abroad in order to focus on development at home, Russia acts increasingly like an expansionist 19th-century power, pressing at its borders. Most strikingly, Russia has bluntly deployed its vast oil and gas resources to punish refractory neighbors like Ukraine, and reward compliant ones like Armenia.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/weekinreview/10traub.html?ref=europe



Do you really know how scary that is... A military response... not to alleviate an economic attack (which could be seen as an act of war), but to CREATE an economic edge by driving up prices?

If that is what is really happening... and is a harbinger of the future, the 1800's will look like child's play in comparison. The world is too small for those games now.

Hammer Of The GODS
08-10-2008, 11:30 AM
You can thank Billy boy (Clinton) for any and all future debacles with regards to Russia. He was so desperate to put the ruskies in the friend column that he poured money into the whole "dismantleing" of nukes without so much as a peek into where the money was going! We are talking billions of dollars! Now we have threats of suitcase nukes made with the material of these "dismantled" nukes! Thanks Bill, sure glad you got a BJ and the economy (PC boom) was good though!

I wouldn't give one of my kids bathtub butt bubbles to save Clintons life! He is scum!

Atlanta Dan
08-10-2008, 11:48 AM
You can thank Billy boy (Clinton) for any and all future debacles with regards to Russia. He was so desperate to put the ruskies in the friend column that he poured money into the whole "dismantleing" of nukes without so much as a peek into where the money was going! We are talking billions of dollars! Now we have threats of suitcase nukes made with the material of these "dismantled" nukes! Thanks Bill, sure glad you got a BJ and the economy (PC boom) was good though!

I wouldn't give one of my kids bathtub butt bubbles to save Clintons life! He is scum!

Bubba had some help - this was a report on W and Putin meeting pre-9/11

Mr Bush described their meeting as straightforward and effective.

He said it was time to move beyond Cold War attitudes, away from mutually assured destruction towards mutually earned respect.

"I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue.

"I was able to get a sense of his soul.

"He's a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country and I appreciate very much the frank dialogue and that's the beginning of a very constructive relationship," Mr Bush said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1392791.stm

Preacher
08-10-2008, 12:25 PM
I don't think you can thank any one party for this.

The base closures (remember-- disbursement in case of nuclear attack) started under Bush. That was the beginning of the draw-down. Clinton continued it, and yes, too far. The budget was balanced on the back of the military.

However, history shows that regardless of party, the military is pretty much ALWAYS drawn down too far after a war. The only possible exception is WWII.

Clinton should have put more money into the military... but the Republicans had the house at the time. Where were their voices? This was right during the Contract with America... and I don't remember strengthening the military as part of it.

Godfather
08-10-2008, 12:40 PM
Bubba had some help - this was a report on W and Putin meeting pre-9/11

Mr Bush described their meeting as straightforward and effective.

He said it was time to move beyond Cold War attitudes, away from mutually assured destruction towards mutually earned respect.

"I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue.

"I was able to get a sense of his soul.

"He's a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country and I appreciate very much the frank dialogue and that's the beginning of a very constructive relationship," Mr Bush said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1392791.stm

And let's not forget that when Clinton was President, Yeltsin--not Putin--was the president of Russia. It was perfectly reasonable to pursue a policy of engagement, especially since it's in our best interests to have more democracies in the world.

Even now, the situation is far better than the Cold War. Russia is nationalistic but they're not bent on the destruction of America like the Soviet Union was, and they share a vested interest with us against Islamofascism so they can't afford to be our enemy.

SteelersMongol
08-10-2008, 11:09 PM
Iran's intentions are pretty obvious...wipe Israel off the map and then it's the U.S.'s turn.

Russia though, kinda scares me.

I'm not really up to all the facts on this developing conflict...why would/is Russia attacking Georgia? What do they have to gain here? Oil assets?

I guess I just don't understand it yet. Then again, who exactly does understand Russia?

Yeah, it's about oil. Georgian breakaway regions supposedly have lots of oil.

It's also about getting tighter grab on Georgia as Georgian capital is going 2 b only 50 miles away from Russian border, if South Ossetia gets away from Georgia 2 b united with Russia,

This also 2 show off who really is the boss in the Caucasian region.

And the result is Georgia is gonna b f*cked:

Comparative size of Russian, Georgian armed forces

- MILITARY SPENDING: Russia's military budget is equivalent to about $40 billion this year, compared to Georgia's $997 million.

- STRENGTH: Russia has 1.1 million soldiers, Georgia has 37,000.

- ARSENALS: The Russian armed forces have about 6,000 tanks and some 1,700 combat aircraft. Georgia has 230 tanks and 12 combat aircraft.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080810/D92FJ13G0.html

UNLESS the NATO & the US steps up 2 back Georgia.

revefsreleets
08-11-2008, 09:37 AM
This is an interesting connundrum. As a NATO member, ALL NATO countries are required to come to Georgia's defense.

Only problem is that Georgia isn't slated to become a full-fledged member of NATO until next year...maybe not even then, since they weren't granted a MAP (Membership Action Plan) thanks to the Germans and French (always so helpful, those two countries).

Dino 6 Rings
08-11-2008, 09:59 AM
Is this Russia supporting a "breakaway" province in Georgia the same Russia that denounced the "breakaway" province in Serbia called Kosovo?

Dino 6 Rings
08-11-2008, 10:04 AM
I'm getting kind of tired of EUROPE not taking care of its own back yard. They need to send Nato Troops in there, all from Europe to establish a legitimate cease fire. The US has no need to get involved other than financially and in a humanitarian effort to help the displaced and wounded. Let France send some help, with Italy and Sweden. Seirously. They want a "Euro" currency that is currently better than the US Dollar, fine, go take care of your backyard you idiots.

millwalldavey
08-11-2008, 10:22 AM
:rofl:Russian jets targeted major oil pipeline-Georgia
09 Aug 2008 14:07:00 GMT
Source: Reuters

TBILISI, Aug 9 (Reuters) - Russian fighter jets targeted the the major Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) oil pipeline which carries oil to the West from Asia but missed, Georgia's Economic Development Minister Ekaterina Sharashidze said on Saturday. "This clearly shows that Russia has not just targeted Georgian economic outlets but international economic outlets in Georgia," she said at a news briefing. There have been no independent verifications of Russian jets targeting the BTC pipeline. (Reporting by Margarita Antidze, writing by James Kilner, editing by Jon Boyle)

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L9618164.htm


This article seems to claim that Russia may be trying to cripple Georgia's oil production...

COME ON! We all know that NO country in the world picks a fight with another country on falsified terms when the real reason is over oil! Those things just do not happen!


:rofl:

Preacher
08-11-2008, 08:38 PM
:rofl:


This article seems to claim that Russia may be trying to cripple Georgia's oil production...

COME ON! We all know that NO country in the world picks a fight with another country on falsified terms when the real reason is over oil! Those things just do not happen!


:rofl:

No country lies and stops UN actions to hold nations to a standard while making backdoor deals for oil right?

Russia, France and Germany NEVER did that right?

Amazing the only oil profits from that region and the wars in that region go to Russia and not the US.

Atlanta Dan
08-11-2008, 09:01 PM
I'm getting kind of tired of EUROPE not taking care of its own back yard. They need to send Nato Troops in there, all from Europe to establish a legitimate cease fire. The US has no need to get involved other than financially and in a humanitarian effort to help the displaced and wounded. Let France send some help, with Italy and Sweden. Seirously. They want a "Euro" currency that is currently better than the US Dollar, fine, go take care of your backyard you idiots.

Someone apparently did not share your views on this subject:

The path of freedom you have chosen is not easy, but you will not travel it alone. Americans respect your courageous choice for liberty. And as you build a free and democratic Georgia, the American people will stand with you...

As you build free institutions at home, the ties that bind our nations will grow deeper, as well. We respect Georgia's desire to join the institutions of Europe. We encourage your closer cooperation with NATO. Georgia's leaders know that the peaceful resolution of conflict is essential to your integration into the transatlantic community. At the same time, the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia must be respected -- the territorial [sic] and sovereignty of Georgia must be respected by all nations.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/05/20050510-2.html

Guess again

tony hipchest
08-11-2008, 09:25 PM
"I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue.

"I was able to get a sense of his soul.

"He's a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country and I appreciate very much the frank dialogue and that's the beginning of a very constructive relationship," Mr Bush said. [/I]

you know, theres something to be said about this type of "6th sense" cause i have it too. its not the "Shining" or anything, but as i gaze into my crystal glass of beer, i distinctly see g-dub as a horse whisperer on a dude ranch in the not too distant future ...

millwalldavey
08-12-2008, 12:25 AM
Amazing the only oil profits from that region and the wars in that region go to Russia and not the US.

Well, one would figure that. That is more of a Russian sphere of influence.

I just never canunderstand that when another country does something similarly shady as this country they are somehow worse.

Preacher
08-12-2008, 12:30 AM
Well, one would figure that. That is more of a Russian sphere of influence.

I just never canunderstand that when another country does something similarly shady as this country they are somehow worse.

Shady? Like us?

Such as?

(and PLEASE don't trot out the old hilariously wrong war for oil argument... $4.00 + gallon gas prices shows that political joke for the joke it really is)

millwalldavey
08-12-2008, 12:37 AM
Shady? Like us?

Such as?

(and PLEASE don't trot out the old hilariously wrong war for oil argument... $4.00 + gallon gas prices shows that political joke for the joke it really is)

I'm sorry to inform you but our country has been involved in a great deal of shady doings throughout its history. Our entry into WWII via Pearl Harbor was shady and never needed to happen the way it did. (although I'm sure we would have been involved otherwise in the future). The Vietnam conflict was escalated due to a falsity (Gulf of Tonkin). Where does one begin to list the countless meddlings and assasinations and coups which occured in the Middle East and South and central America at the hands of the CIA? Sex scandals to divert the nations attention away from air strikes on a foreign nation (Balkans in the 90's)

Theres a lot more out there.

And please don't trot out the old hilariously wrong national security argument. I'm far from being Anti-American, I just do not like to see sensless acts committed by my government. I'm also far from saying that we are the only bad guys in the world. There are alot more out there as bad and worse. But sometimes people in this country are blind to the things we are up to.

tony hipchest
08-12-2008, 12:41 AM
Well, one would figure that. That is more of a Russian sphere of influence.

I just never canunderstand that when another country does something similarly shady as this country they are somehow worse.now, along with oil, why do you have to go and bring americas affliction with cocaine, "blood" diamonds, porn, guns, and alcohol into the discussion?

millwalldavey
08-12-2008, 12:52 AM
now, along with oil, why do you have to go and bring americas affliction with cocaine, "blood" diamonds, porn, guns, and alcohol into the discussion?

You forgot fast food and reality TV!

tony hipchest
08-12-2008, 01:06 AM
You forgot fast food and reality TV!my God! can you imagine how quick the red button would be triggered, if somebody ever tried to cut off india's or japans pipeline of video game and computer programmers to america?