PDA

View Full Version : Will Calls out Obama on Georgia (Thanks Dan)


revefsreleets
08-13-2008, 08:13 AM
(This was the rest of the article you cited in the Olympic thread...)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/11/AR2008081102156.html

Tony won't be happy...Will pwns Richardson as well...

Russia's Power Play


By George F. Will
Tuesday, August 12, 2008; A13

Asked in 1957 what would determine his government's course, Harold Macmillan, Britain's new prime minister, replied, "Events, dear boy, events." Now, into America's trivializing presidential campaign, a pesky event has intruded -- a European war. Russian tanks, heavy artillery, strategic bombers, ballistic missiles and a naval blockade batter a European nation. We are not past such things after all. The end of history will be postponed, again.
Russia supports two provinces determined to secede from Georgia. Russia, with aspiring nations within its borders, generally opposes secessionists, as it did when America, which sometimes opposes secession (e.g., 1861-65), improvidently supported Kosovo's secession from Russia's ally Serbia. But Russia's aggression is really about the subordination of Georgia, a democratic, market-oriented U.S. ally. This is the recrudescence of Russia's dominance in what it calls the "near abroad." Ukraine, another nation guilty of being provocatively democratic near Russia, should tremble because there is not much America can do. It is a bystander at the bullying of an ally that might be about to undergo regime change.
Vladimir Putin, into whose soul President George W. Bush once peered and liked what he saw, has conspicuously conferred with Russia's military, thereby making his poodle, "President" Dmitry Medvedev, yet more risible. But big events reveal smallness, such as that of New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson.
On ABC's "This Week," Richardson, auditioning to be Barack Obama's running mate, disqualified himself. Clinging to the Obama campaign's talking points like a drunk to a lamppost, Richardson said that this crisis proves the wisdom of Obama's zest for diplomacy and that America should get the U.N. Security Council "to pass a strong resolution getting the Russians to show some restraint." Apparently Richardson was ambassador to the United Nations for 19 months without noticing that Russia has a Security Council veto.
This crisis illustrates, redundantly, the paralysis of the United Nations regarding major powers, hence regarding major events, and the fictitiousness of the European Union regarding foreign policy. Does this disturb Obama's serenity about the efficacy of diplomacy? Obama's second statement about the crisis, in which he tardily acknowledged Russia's invasion, underscored the folly of his first, which echoed the Bush administration's initial evenhandedness. "Now," said Obama, "is the time for Georgia and Russia to show restraint."
John McCain, the "life is real, life is earnest" candidate, says he has looked into Putin's eyes and seen "a K, a G and a B." But McCain owes the thug thanks, as does America's electorate. Putin has abruptly pulled the presidential campaign up from preoccupation with plumbing the shallows of John Edwards and wondering what "catharsis" is "owed" to disappointed Clintonites.
McCain, who has called upon Russia "to immediately and unconditionally . . . withdraw all forces from sovereign Georgian territory," favors expelling Russia from the Group of Eight, and organizing a league of democracies to act where the United Nations is impotent, which is whenever the subject is important. But Georgia, whose desire for NATO membership had U.S. support, is not in NATO because some prospective members of McCain's league of democracies, e.g., Germany, thought that starting membership talks with Georgia would complicate the project of propitiating Russia. NATO is scheduled to review the question of Georgia's membership in December. Where now do Obama and McCain stand?
If Georgia were in NATO, would NATO now be at war with Russia? More likely, Russia would not be in Georgia. Only once in NATO's 59 years has the territory of a member been invaded -- the British Falklands, by Argentina, in 1982.
What is it about August? The First World War began in August 1914. The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact effectively announced the Second World War in August 1939. Iraq, a fragment of the collapse of empires precipitated by August 1914, invaded Kuwait in August 1990.
This year's August upheaval coincides, probably not coincidentally, with the world's preoccupation with that charade of international comity, the Olympics. For only the third time in 72 years (Berlin 1936, Moscow 1980), the Games are being hosted by a tyrannical regime, the mind of which was displayed in the opening ceremonies featuring thousands of drummers, each face contorted with the same grotesquely frozen grin. It was a tableau of the miniaturization of the individual and the subordination of individuality to the collective. Not since the Nazi's 1934 Nuremberg rally, which Leni Riefenstahl turned into the film "Triumph of the Will," has tyranny been so brazenly tarted up as art.
A worldwide audience of billions swooned over the Beijing ceremony. Who remembers 1934? Or anything.
georgewill@washpost.com (georgewill@washpost.com)

Atlanta Dan
08-13-2008, 04:54 PM
Glad to help out:chuckle:

IMO Will cannot figure out where he is at on Obama, a big part of which is because Will is not a big McCain fan

Preacher
08-13-2008, 05:13 PM
Glad to help out:chuckle:

IMO Will cannot figure out where he is at on Obama, a big part of which is because Will is not a big McCain fan

Which is the major problem the GOP will have this go-around.

They had enough with holding their nose and voting over the last eight years, and they just might not do it again.

The question is, does McCain understand that he needs to secure the party base to even be in a place to challenge Obama?

Then again, with all the games the Clintons are playing, maybe there will be a split base in both parties.

revefsreleets
08-14-2008, 08:08 AM
Of course McCain knows that...he's done a little "reassessing his positions" lately, too, or whatever the euphemism the press allows for Obama's wild flip-flopping all over the place...

Only McCain has done it for fewer issues, and stayed closer to his original views, and, if anything, is drawing further towards his party base, not away from it (see: Ronald Obama).

Preacher
08-14-2008, 02:45 PM
Of course McCain knows that...he's done a little "reassessing his positions" lately, too, or whatever the euphemism the press allows for Obama's wild flip-flopping all over the place...

Only McCain has done it for fewer issues, and stayed closer to his original views, and, if anything, is drawing further towards his party base, not away from it (see: Ronald Obama).

Well, his commercial that ran here in California last night was horrible. I thought it was an Obama commercial for about half of it.

Then again, this IS California... he may seem to be writing off any base he may have here and going for the conservative dems in the middle of the state.

Not sure about that strategy though.

atlsteelers
08-14-2008, 02:57 PM
Of Course we would not be in this spot if GW was not such a fan of Putin

"I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue.

"I was able to get a sense of his soul.

"He's a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country and I appreciate very much the frank dialogue and that's the beginning of a very constructive relationship," Mr Bush said.


I will give mcsame some credit in the fact that he described putin as a nothing more than KGB

Atlanta Dan
08-14-2008, 03:24 PM
Well, his commercial that ran here in California last night was horrible. I thought it was an Obama commercial for about half of it.

Then again, this IS California... he may seem to be writing off any base he may have here and going for the conservative dems in the middle of the state.

Not sure about that strategy though.

Why is McCain running any ads in California (or are these the nationwide buys on the Olympics?)

You or I are about as likely to carry California as McCain is

We are getting lots of Obama and McCain ads here in ATL on local shows as well as the Olympics- you can have the sound off and tell it is an Obama ad if the picture of McCain has him standing with Bush and tell it is a McCain ad if McCain is standing alone and shot in profile to avoid the side of his face that had the major melanoma surgery

Preacher
08-14-2008, 04:11 PM
Why is McCain running any ads in California (or are these the nationwide buys on the Olympics?)

You or I are about as likely to carry California as McCain is

We are getting lots of Obama and McCain ads here in ATL on local shows as well as the Olympics- you can have the sound off and tell it is an Obama ad if the picture of McCain has him standing with Bush and tell it is a McCain ad if McCain is standing alone and shot in profile to avoid the side of his face that had the major melanoma surgery

Good question on the national or local..

I actually think they are local... (ran in the local commercial slots.. after the national ones).

Maybe McCain thinks he can take California. Who knows?

Atlanta Dan
08-14-2008, 04:52 PM
Good question on the national or local..

I actually think they are local... (ran in the local commercial slots.. after the national ones).

Maybe McCain thinks he can take California. Who knows?

They might be tossing in some $$ now to see if they can get the polling down to single digits and force Obama to spend resources defending his base

Obama losing California would be like McCain losing Texas - it will not be crucial because if either of those events happens it will be a +400 electoral vote landslide for the winner

IMO Michigan, Ohio & Florida are the key - win 2 of those 3 and that candidate will be tough to beat

Atlanta Dan
08-14-2008, 07:43 PM
Well, his commercial that ran here in California last night was horrible. I thought it was an Obama commercial for about half of it.

Then again, this IS California... he may seem to be writing off any base he may have here and going for the conservative dems in the middle of the state.
.

Was it the one with the grainy black and white footage that says "Washington is broken" and "we are worse off than we were 4 years ago" (so vote Republican?:banging:)

That one is in nationwide rotation -just ran on the Olympics

tony hipchest
08-14-2008, 10:55 PM
Tony won't be happy...Will pwns Richardson as well...



actually, i look at it as any pub is good pub. richardsons diplomatic efforts speak for themselves. its one thing to be a diplomat. its a whole hell of alot less to sit on the sidelines and write about it. maybe these comments from richardson pissed him off and had him grasping at straws-

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080810/ts_alt_afp/usvotegeorgiarussiaunrest_080810192154

New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson said McCain's campaign "is run by lobbyists that represent Georgia and other countries."

"He takes huge amounts of money from oil companies that are profiting in the (former) Soviet Union and many parts of the world," the Democrat told ABC News, attempting to depict a conflict of interest for McCain.

Richardson, a former US ambassador to the United Nations, said the crisis vindicated Obama's pledge to rebuild US alliances in Europe that were strained under President George W. Bush.

"This has been one of the failures of the Bush administration, failing to build a strong relationship, a mutually beneficial relationship with Russia, so we'd have the kind of influence to persuade them to stop some of these very, very dangerous efforts within their territory," he said.

Virginia Governor Timothy Kaine, who is touted as a prospective running mate for Obama, denied that the crisis might drive US voters to the more experienced McCain.

"Experience is only positive insofar as it creates good judgment," he said on CBS News.



McCain's foreign policy adviser Randy Scheunemann is a former lobbyist for Georgia.

anyways this all does kinda detract from Richardson being nominated for his 5th nobel peace price award this week. how many has wills been nominated for?

HA! i just pwned Wills!!!!11!!1one!!!!

revefsreleets
08-15-2008, 07:52 AM
I know Russia has a vote on the security counsel, but Richardson doesn't?

And Al Gore WON a Nobel for conjectue and deliberate deception...that pretty much tarnishes the rep of that award forever.

And what does beig a former lobbyist have to do with anything? McCain castigated Russia, would have castigated Russia with or without a former lobbysit on staff, and was right to do so. Obama comes off as wishy-washy and very lib by falling back on UN. UN is old and tired...unilateral talks are the new hottness. Obama and Bill need to get onboard!