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tony hipchest
08-20-2008, 01:59 PM
looks like season draws nearer, the oasis of talent known as the browns is appearing to be just a mirage. peter king has a real nice rip job in yesterdays article. better to jump ship now, than to appear a fool later.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/08/19/mail/index.html

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- The problem with preseason football, other than the fact it's preseason football, is you never have any idea what it means. Never. Having said that, I am questioning all the love I've thrown the Browns way this off-season. It would impossible not to, after being in the house for the first 17 minutes -- which took about four days -- of Cleveland's preseason loss to the Giants here Monday.

Keep in mind that in the second preseason game, the starters usually play a quarter, or a little more than a quarter. Or 17 minutes, roughly. So this wasn't the 78th guy on the roster screwing up for 17 minutes. It was the third, and 11th, and 15th.

In the first 17 minutes, the Browns fell behind 30-3. Derek Anderson was off-target and inaccurate on even the dumpoffs, screwed up a handoff with Jamal Lewis (looked to be equal blame on both sides) that the Giants picked up and ran for a touchdown, felt pressured constantly behind a line that's supposed to be very good, and finally got steamrolled into a concussion on a vicious Osi Umenyiora sack 90 seconds into the second quarter. The special teams were so awful I don't know where to begin. Maybe on the worst two consecutive plays in preseason history in the first quarter -- a punt Dave Zastudil kicked into his own blocker, Travis Thomas. Followed by Zastudil's free kick that Domenik Hixon ran back 82 yards for a touchdown -- and he was touched by exactly one Brown. The secondary, particularly under-pressure corner Eric Wright, was strafed by Eli Manning for a touchdown and a 53-yard interference penalty when he was badly beaten by Sinorice Moss. Cleveland had 128 yards of penalties, 15 coming when linebacker Andra Davis took a wild swing at a Giant after a play.

And Josh Cribbs injured an ankle. I don't know how long he or Anderson will be out.

Other than that, Mr. Crennel, how did you like the play?

"We didn't have enough poise,'' Crennel said. "We're not very good right now.''

A few things worry me about Cleveland now. The secondary, obviously. The Browns knew it was going to be a work in progress, especially at corner with young starters Wright and Brandon McDonald. They've got to get Shaun Rogers (shoulder) back healthy, which he should be for the opener so he can push the pocket and help take the pressure off the corners. Rogers and Corey Williams containing the rush is a worry, because we haven't seen them do it yet (though Rogers was stout early against the Jets last week) and the Browns gave up 4.5 yards a carry last year. And Anderson simply has to be more accurate than he was late last season (he completed 53 percent in his five December games), particularly with a rush in his face. That was troublesome Monday.
to address their weak secondary, the browns give an undisclosed pick to miami for cb travis daniels (whoever the hell that is).

Brandon
08-20-2008, 03:11 PM
Travis Daniels is a decent player from his stats. 3 interceptions, 95 tackles, 19 pass def. in 44 career games. He is 25 years old.

STEELtownHAVOX
08-20-2008, 03:19 PM
All i know is, there is a guy here at work that's a huge Browns fan and keeps saying they have the toughest schedule. I told him once that you don't, Pittsburgh does, you have the second toughest schedule. After i corrected him a few months back, I've heard him say it again at least twice. D-bag.

revefsreleets
08-20-2008, 03:27 PM
Did anyone see the graphic about the Browns wins last season and who they came against? The teams they lost to had a winning percentage of like .575, and the teams they beat had a winning percentage of like .323.

It's easy to win 10 games if you play and beat a bunch of shitty teams.

The Duke
08-20-2008, 03:35 PM
travis daniels is better than mike adams, that's for sure

Eric Wright is good, but he is bound to give up some plays like we saw on monday.

I was truly impressed by quinn. that kid should start over anderson before the end of the season

that said....I hope people stay on their bandwagon and doubt the steelers. will be much sweeter when they kick their asses :tt:

Texasteel
08-20-2008, 03:58 PM
Everything I've read here can be summed up in 3 words.

:sign03:

xfl2001fan
08-20-2008, 04:04 PM
All i know is, there is a guy here at work that's a huge Browns fan and keeps saying they have the toughest schedule. I told him once that you don't, Pittsburgh does, you have the second toughest schedule. After i corrected him a few months back, I've heard him say it again at least twice. D-bag.
I'm thinking you've got it wrong. I am pretty sure ours is the 5th toughest in the league and only the 2nd toughest in our division.

Dino 6 Rings
08-20-2008, 04:45 PM
I'm pretty sure I Don't Fear The Browns

MACH1
08-20-2008, 05:02 PM
It must suck looking forward going 0-2 to start.

RoethlisBURGHer
08-20-2008, 06:12 PM
The Browns did last year the same thing the Bengals did in 2005.

They made a large jump in the win column playing a last place schedule.

Now the Browns have to play a second place schedule where hte face a lot of better teams than last year...I say they go 8-8 or 7-9.

xfl2001fan
08-20-2008, 06:14 PM
It must suck looking forward going 0-2 to start.

Let's compare, my team played like shit against the Superbowl Champions. Your team played like shit against....Buffalo.

Right.

I'm not predicting anything in regards to this season, both of our teams have some big question marks that have yet to be answered in a manner benifiting it's team.

Also, any given Sunday. NE nearly lost to Miami last season...and your team got beat by the Jets. Yup, it can happen to anyone at anytime.

tony hipchest
08-20-2008, 06:45 PM
Also, any given Sunday. NE nearly lost to Miami last season...and your team got beat by the Jets. Yup, it can happen to anyone at anytime.
but one game or any given sunday does not a season make. it takes consistancy over 17 weeks. the patriots woulda been in the same spot had they gone 15-1 and lost to miami.

even though the steelers and browns both lost last weeks preseason game, peter king perfectly sums up how much shit they actually played like. that game shoulda been a litmus test and coulda been a statement game to build confidence.

do you really think the steelers will be intimidated when they face teams like the cowboys, giants, colts, chargers? they wont be. they have that confidence. they rode a rookie qb to a 15-1 record and punched undefeated teams like the patriots and eagles in the mouth.

building momentum, confidence and a swagger goes a long way and can overcome lack of talent or "big question marks". just ask the patriots.

revefsreleets
08-20-2008, 06:46 PM
Their objectives in the preseason are very different than the Steelers. And the Browns just collapsed under the weight of their own press clippings. Apples and oranges...

xfl2001fan
08-20-2008, 06:54 PM
but one game or any given sunday does not a season make. it takes consistancy over 17 weeks. the patriots woulda been in the same spot had they gone 15-1 and lost to miami.

even though the steelers and browns both lost last weeks preseason game, peter king perfectly sums up how much shit they actually played like. that game shoulda been a litmus test and coulda been a statement game to build confidence.

do you really think the steelers will be intimidated when they face teams like the cowboys, giants, colts, chargers? they wont be. they have that confidence. they rode a rookie qb to a 15-1 record and punched undefeated teams like the patriots and eagles in the mouth.

building momentum, confidence and a swagger goes a long way and can overcome lack of talent or "big question marks". just ask the patriots.

One game decided quite a bit at the end of last season. That one game against Cincy decided the Browns fate. We choked and it ruined our season. That one game NE lost was a great thing for 99% of the football fans outside of Boston...because the cheaters got theirs. It made a huge difference in how people perceive Eli Manning and the Giants in particular.

One game can mean a lot. Let's say the Browns lose to the Cowboys but turn around and beat the Steelers in W2. That one game could do huge wonders for the Browns confidence. If they lose both games...you guys have been spouting enough of what you feel that means...I don't need to explain it to you.

Yup, the Browns blew. I admitted that throughout the game. I have no problem saying when my team sucks. But based on the thread, I saw that there were more question marks raised in one game against the Bills than there were answers.

It's preseason. We played like shit, so did your guys. We have this next game to get a better look at our team and see if they improve...if they still are playing like shit, then I'll worry more. If they play significantly better, then I won't be nearly as concerned.

The season is 17 weeks (16 games) long...and not a single down has been played.

revefsreleets
08-20-2008, 07:00 PM
The problem is deeper and darker than that for the Browns. They aren't "a tweak" away, they looked awful in every facet of the game in the first quarter (the only quarter that counts in week 2 of the preseason). And there were injuries. And the secondary is awful. And...

Eh, hell, it ain't my team...you apologize all you like.

xfl2001fan
08-20-2008, 07:04 PM
I'm not apologizing for my team. I don't know how "They played like shit" could possibly be conceived as apologizing. In this little world I call Earth that I live on, it's about as far from an apology as you can get.

Yes, there are problems. Yes, there are question marks. Nope, I don't know what the answers are. That's for the FO to deal with.

Yes, there are problems with the Steelers. Yes, there are question marks. Nope, you don't know what the answers are for them. That's for your FO to deal with.

stlrtruck
08-20-2008, 09:01 PM
Look it's a pre-season game for both teams. And while I would say there's more concern for the browns overall, the bottom line is the browns aren't my team and I hope they continue to have these "problems" all year long.

However, I'm more concerned about the fact that the first string teams didn't get it done against the bills when they should have performed better, even in pre-season.

We can all agree, it's pre-season and this is the time to iron on the wrinkles. It don't mean squat until Sept 4!!!

steelymcmatt
08-20-2008, 10:14 PM
Let's compare, my team played like shit against the Superbowl Champions. Your team played like shit against....Buffalo.

Right.

I'm not predicting anything in regards to this season, both of our teams have some big question marks that have yet to be answered in a manner benifiting it's team.

Also, any given Sunday. NE nearly lost to Miami last season...and your team got beat by the Jets. Yup, it can happen to anyone at anytime.

I'll give you that point.....we did look bad against the Bills, although I don't think we looked AS bad as the Bengals did against the Giants.

Having said that, IF I were a Bengals fan, there are a couple things I would be concerned about:

1. Historically most QBs in their second year as a starter struggle now that teams have had an up close and personal look at them. I think DA is in for an eye-opening year. It wouldn't suprise me if he is not the starter by week 15.

2. While no NFL team "overlooks" another team, there are games players circle. I would wager no one was circling the Browns last year (except maybe in division). That will change this year.....with the extra press the Browns got this offseason, they have a big fat red target on their back.

3. Last year they teams the Browns beat had a combined winning percentage of less than 350.....the teams that beat them had a winning percentage of better than 500.

Given all this, I anticipate the Browns finishing 8-8 and competing with the Ravens for 2nd place in the division. They are certainly improved, and they are not to be taken lightly, but I think they are still 2-3 years away.

CantStop85
08-21-2008, 12:15 AM
I'll give you that point.....we did look bad against the Bills, although I don't think we looked AS bad as the Bengals did against the Giants.

Having said that, IF I were a Bengals fan, there are a couple things I would be concerned about:


Hey man, don't go confusing my team with that other team in Ohio. :flap:

9-5
08-21-2008, 12:46 AM
Don't you mean the Browns?

And could someone please explain how exactly we are competing with the Ravens for second? I know you guys are Steelers fans, but intentionally disrespecting us with statements like those just show what kind of fans you really are. The ravens suck, period, end of story. Their offense is one of the worst in the league, and their defense isn't exactly getting younger. They have no chance to compete for anything except a top 5 Draft pick.

tony hipchest
08-21-2008, 01:12 AM
Don't you mean the Browns?

And could someone please explain how exactly we are competing with the Ravens for second? I know you guys are Steelers fans, but intentionally disrespecting us with statements like those just show what kind of fans you really are. The ravens suck, period, end of story. Their offense is one of the worst in the league, and their defense isn't exactly getting younger. They have no chance to compete for anything except a top 5 Draft pick.i bet one of the old browns few wins (4-6) comes at the expense of smacking th taste outta the mouffs of the new browns.

you see, the old browns actually have a defense, despite how old it may be> :old:

btw... nobody intentionally disreprcts the browns, they just simply regard them with no respect. what more do you expect? :hunch:

"hit the pike...!"

(thats for u myron. RIP :tt02:.)

Steelman16
08-21-2008, 01:48 AM
There was a Browns bandwagon?















:toofunny:

CantStop85
08-21-2008, 02:05 AM
i bet one of the old browns few wins (4-6) comes at the expense of smacking th taste outta the mouffs of the new browns.

you see, the old browns actually have a defense, despite how old it may be> :old:

btw... nobody intentionally disreprcts the browns, they just simply regard them with no respect. what more do you expect? :hunch:

"hit the pike...!"

(thats for u myron. RIP :tt02:.)

The Ravens still have the look of being pretty terrible. If it weren't for a win against the Steelers' second stringers in week 17 they would have been 0-6 in the division and 4-12 overall last year. Even the defense (their strong point) was near the bottom of the league in points allowed.

Both the Browns and Bengals ended up 3-3 in the division last year, sweeping the Ravens and splitting between each other. The Steelers went virtually unscathed in the division at 5-1 (the one "loss" to the Ravens). Unless there are some major injury shake-ups, it still looks like it will be the Steelers leading the pack, the Ravens occupying the basement, and the Browns and Bengals battling it out for 2nd in the division and hoping for a wildcard spot. To me, the only things that look clear right now are Pittsburgh leading the pack and Baltimore bringing up the rear.

For someone to overtake Pittsburgh, they're going to have to at least split the series with them. Will that happen? :noidea: But, the AFC North crown will run through Pittsburgh this season.

Galax Steeler
08-21-2008, 04:17 AM
And I will say it again.:sign03:

stillers4me
08-21-2008, 08:27 AM
For someone to overtake Pittsburgh, they're going to have to at least split the series with them. Will that happen? But, the AFC North crown will run through Pittsburgh this season.

You're one smart Bengalfan, CS85.

Now do something about that gawdawful signature.........:chuckle:

Dino 6 Rings
08-21-2008, 11:50 AM
For someone to overtake Pittsburgh, they're going to have to at least split the series with them. Will that happen? :noidea: But, the AFC North crown will run through Pittsburgh this season.

No...the AFC North Crown runs through Pittsburgh Every Single Season.

That is what you fans of the Ravens, Browns and Bengals refuse to recognize.

18 times we have been crowned the Champ of the Central/North. 18. The other teams total, including Jacksonville, Houston and Tennesse, with the Ravens, Bengals and Browns have 19 total. Between all of them.

Every Single Year. It is the STEELERS Crown. You are all just attempting to take it for one single season. That's It.

Recognize the Glory of the Steelers as it Stands Before You.

Admit it, just say "Hey, you guys really are one of the greatest franchise ever in football and it is an honor to get to play you twice a year." Be humbled by the opportunity in front of you to test yourselves against the Greatness that is the Pittsburgh Steelers. Never think you are better, just be humble and enjoy the times you do get a single win from us.

9-5
08-21-2008, 06:04 PM
i bet one of the old browns few wins (4-6) comes at the expense of smacking th taste outta the mouffs of the new browns.

you see, the old browns actually have a defense, despite how old it may be> :old:

btw... nobody intentionally disreprcts the browns, they just simply regard them with no respect. what more do you expect? :hunch:

"hit the pike...!"


The Ravens have never been and will never be the "new Browns". The Ravens are completely separate from the Browns. That's why they are the Ravens, the NFL said they could not move the name, history, or colors with them.

How can they "smack the taste outta our mouths"? They don't have an offense worth worrying about. And our offense put up 27 and 33 points against them last year. So, I don't think their defense is that troublesome.

No respect and disrespect are the same thing, Tony. If you disrespect someone, you are showing them no respect.

And I don't expect anything other then what any fan of any team in any sport is asking for: Respect. I guess it is a little much to ask from Steeler fans, but I hope one day it won't be.

43Hitman
08-21-2008, 06:30 PM
The Ravens have never been and will never be the "new Browns". The Ravens are completely separate from the Browns. That's why they are the Ravens, the NFL said they could not move the name, history, or colors with them.

How can they "smack the taste outta our mouths"? They don't have an offense worth worrying about. And our offense put up 27 and 33 points against them last year. So, I don't think their defense is that troublesome.

No respect and disrespect are the same thing, Tony. If you disrespect someone, you are showing them no respect.

And I don't expect anything other then what any fan of any team in any sport is asking for: Respect. I guess it is a little much to ask from Steeler fans, but I hope one day it won't be.


Lmao!! Your the "new Browns"...The Ravens are the "old Browns"... Reading comprehension was actually taught when I was a kid...:sign03:

9-5
08-21-2008, 06:38 PM
Every Single Year. It is the STEELERS Crown. You are all just attempting to take it for one single season. That's It.

Recognize the Glory of the Steelers as it Stands Before You.

Admit it, just say "Hey, you guys really are one of the greatest franchise ever in football and it is an honor to get to play you twice a year." Be humbled by the opportunity in front of you to test yourselves against the Greatness that is the Pittsburgh Steelers. Never think you are better, just be humble and enjoy the times you do get a single win from us.
Wow Dino, that is the most arrogant, egocentric post I have had the misfortune of reading. :doh: You are the most perfect example of a yinzer I could dream up.

You are one of the greatest franchises of the past 30 years, nothing more. Before 1972, you were as bad as the Cardinals. You have had a remarkable run, but sooner or later it will end. The Browns were the Yankees of football until 1964, since then, I'll admit we haven't been anywhere near that. However, our recent history does not change the fact that we have arguably the greatest Coach, quarterback, and the greatest running back of all time. Not to mention a top 10 all-time winning percentage. With all your winning the past 30 years, it truly says how bad you were to look at a .507% winning percentage, which is not even in the top half of all current franchises.

Nobody will ever bow down to the Steelers, or any other franchise. If you expect anyone to, then you will be waiting a long time

9-5
08-21-2008, 06:41 PM
Lmao!! Your the "new Browns"...The Ravens are the "old Browns"... Reading comprehension was actually taught when I was a kid...:sign03:
We are not the "new" Browns, we are the Browns. The Ravens HAVE NEVER and WILL NEVER be associated with the Browns.

tony hipchest
08-21-2008, 06:59 PM
We are not the "new" Browns, we are the Browns. The Ravens HAVE NEVER and WILL NEVER be associated with the Browns.and the steelers will NEVER be associated with steel workers. :rolleyes:

but all in all, you seem alright and arent here just to troll, so i can respect that.

just keep the :blah: to a minimum and expect the hazing and brownbashing. :tt02:

:chuckle:

revefsreleets
08-21-2008, 07:22 PM
Browns are a cursed franchise. The second they left Cleveland and changed their name, they won a Super Bowl. The "new Browns" (Yes, they are the new Browns...you can't just ignore the fact that they were gone and came back) are just as cursed. Look at the injuries, the staph infections. The Browns are the Bermuda Triangle of the NFL.

tony hipchest
08-21-2008, 07:32 PM
The Browns are the Bermuda Triangle of the NFL.:sofunny:

Brilliant!

LVSteelersfan
08-21-2008, 07:36 PM
Did anyone see the graphic about the Browns wins last season and who they came against? The teams they lost to had a winning percentage of like .575, and the teams they beat had a winning percentage of like .323.

It's easy to win 10 games if you play and beat a bunch of shitty teams.

I hate to say this, but the Steelers had pretty much the same schedule and pretty much the same results. They better be ready to play this year.

9-5
08-21-2008, 07:43 PM
Browns are a cursed franchise. The second they left Cleveland and changed their name, they won a Super Bowl. The "new Browns" (Yes, they are the new Browns...you can't just ignore the fact that they were gone and came back) are just as cursed. Look at the injuries, the staph infections. The Browns are the Bermuda Triangle of the NFL.
Yes I can ignore the move. Art moved the team without consideration for the fans or for the league, who going to have one of its most historic franchises move from the only city it had ever known. That is why he could not take the Browns with him. There was no new Browns franchise, we simply revived the original one.

LVSteelersfan
08-21-2008, 07:45 PM
We are not the "new" Browns, we are the Browns. The Ravens HAVE NEVER and WILL NEVER be associated with the Browns.

WRONG AGAIN. They are the Browns team that moved. You can't refute it. Don't even try.

stlrtruck
08-21-2008, 08:07 PM
I have to say that as much as I hate the browns, what Modell did was wrong. I will also say this - comparing the ratbird fans vs. clowns fans I've met the clowns fans have a great loyalty and actually have a better understanding of the game in general. And while it's fun to pick the scab that is the "OLD" browns vs the "NEW" browns, bottom line is Modell could only move the team, not the name.

xfl2001fan
08-21-2008, 08:12 PM
He moved the players and nothing more. The Browns have always played and will always play in Cleveland...or nowhere at all.

You look at Madden games, the All-Browns team and All-Ravens team have two very different sets of players. They are not the Browns.

tony hipchest
08-21-2008, 08:22 PM
They are not the Browns.this is true. if they were, they woulda lost the only SB they ever went to. :sofunny:

:tt:

43Hitman
08-21-2008, 08:27 PM
this is true. if they were, they woulda lost the only SB they ever went to. :sofunny:

:tt:


:toofunny::drink:

Stlrs4Life
08-21-2008, 09:19 PM
Yes I can ignore the move. Art moved the team without consideration for the fans or for the league, who going to have one of its most historic franchises move from the only city it had ever known. That is why he could not take the Browns with him. There was no new Browns franchise, we simply revived the original one.


The Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams were also the Cleveland Rams at one time. Like said, the team moved, The City of Cleveland keeps the records and history, that's what stayed.

stlrtruck
08-21-2008, 09:38 PM
Speaking of the "OLD" browns if you want to irate them a little bit talk about the Super Bowls the COLTS have and not the ravens. A lot of those fans think that Colts Super Bowls still count for the ratbirds...talk about a confused bunch.

RoethlisBURGHer
08-21-2008, 11:16 PM
There are two versions of the Cleveland Browns, Before Move and After Move.

Cleveland is the ONLY city that ended up retaining the name, colors, and history when the team was moved to another city.

When the Rams were moved from Cleveland to Los Angeles, Cleveland wasn't allowed to keep the name, colors, and history. When the Rams moved from Los Angeles to St. Louis, Los Angeles wasn't allowed to keep that stuff either.

When the Colts moved from Baltimore to Indianapolis, Baltimore didn't get to keep the Colts name, colors, and history either.

However when the Browns moved to Baltimore from Cleveland, somehow Cleveland ended up keeping the name, colors, and history,

It was unprecedented. It had never before happened.

But the fact is, the Cleveland Browns were moved to Baltimore, however Baltimore wasn't allowed to take the name, colors, and history.

Dino 6 Rings
08-22-2008, 07:27 AM
Wow Dino, that is the most arrogant, egocentric post I have had the misfortune of reading. :doh: You are the most perfect example of a yinzer I could dream up.

You are one of the greatest franchises of the past 30 years, nothing more. Before 1972, you were as bad as the Cardinals. You have had a remarkable run, but sooner or later it will end. The Browns were the Yankees of football until 1964, since then, I'll admit we haven't been anywhere near that. However, our recent history does not change the fact that we have arguably the greatest Coach, quarterback, and the greatest running back of all time. Not to mention a top 10 all-time winning percentage. With all your winning the past 30 years, it truly says how bad you were to look at a .507% winning percentage, which is not even in the top half of all current franchises.

Nobody will ever bow down to the Steelers, or any other franchise. If you expect anyone to, then you will be waiting a long time

Well I am Arrogant and Egotistical so I am not offended by your attempted "zing" against me.

Sure back in the day...before there was a thing called The Forward Pass, your team was good. Yet, since the Dawn of the Superbowl, your team has never been. Why is that? Because the sport has evolved and your team, just never could stand upright.

To say "a remarkable run" 30 years...a 30 year run is not a passing phase or a one time dream season. Its shows a consistancy and standard of winning. That's what it is. Take it and enjoy it and recognize, the Browns, Bengals, Ravens are not in the same Class as the Pittsburgh Steelers. Not even in the same School.

Year after year after year the Steelers are in the mix. Bottom Line.

Do not attempt to even compare your team with the Yankees. They are Still winning. Something your team hasn't done...since...1964.

stlrtruck
08-22-2008, 08:36 AM
Cleveland is the ONLY city that ended up retaining the name, colors, and history when the team was moved to another city.

However when the Browns moved to Baltimore from Cleveland, somehow Cleveland ended up keeping the name, colors, and history,


I caveat this with I'm not a browns fan nor a baltimore fan but I have two points to why this was allowed to happen:

1) Baltimore got screwed out of an expansion team with Jacksonville and Carolina received them. Baltimore at the original deadline had the best package on the table but Tagliabue extended the deadline, not once - but twice. Eventually screwing Baltimore out of a team that went to Carolina (because Jacksonville had the second best package). Why? Rumor has it that Tagliabue had a thing against baltimore. Thus when baltimore couldn't get an expansion team, Tagliabue allowed them to get the next best thing - the browns.

2) Tagliabue knew what a screw job it was to move the browns and to allow Modell to do it even though the team was supported very well in that market and the only reason the team was going bankrupt is because Modell didn't know how to financially run the team, giving such ludicrous deals to players like Andre Rison. Bottom line, Modell should have been forced to sale the team, not allowed to move it.

9-5
08-22-2008, 10:59 AM
There are two versions of the Cleveland Browns, Before Move and After Move.

No there are not. There has been and there always will be one Cleveland Browns.


Take it and enjoy it and recognize, the Browns, Bengals, Ravens are not in the same Class as the Pittsburgh Steelers. Not even in the same School.

Do not attempt to even compare your team with the Yankees. They are Still winning. Something your team hasn't done...since...1964.
Based on what, exactly? We have a better winning percentage and more championships. Other then your recent success, what makes you so much better then us?

The Yankee comparison was in reference to the fact that we played in 10 consecutive championship games. That feat will never be duplicated. Also, we are the only team to have a perfect record in the playoffs. (The Browns did not lose a playoff game as a member of the AAFC)

j-dawg
08-22-2008, 11:05 AM
Tagliabue knew what a screw job it was to move the browns and to allow Modell to do it even though the team was supported very well in that market and the only reason the team was going bankrupt is because Modell didn't know how to financially run the team, giving such ludicrous deals to players like Andre Rison. Bottom line, Modell should have been forced to sale the team, not allowed to move it.

:drink: :hatsoff:
Thanks Stlrtruck. I find myself ALWAYS having to point this out.

I've got A LOT of respect for the Rooneys... they voted against the move. I can't stand rival fans who LOVE to bring it up.

Dino 6 Rings
08-22-2008, 11:35 AM
Based on what, exactly? We have a better winning percentage and more championships. Other then your recent success, what makes you so much better then us?

The Yankee comparison was in reference to the fact that we played in 10 consecutive championship games. That feat will never be duplicated. Also, we are the only team to have a perfect record in the playoffs. (The Browns did not lose a playoff game as a member of the AAFC)

Wow, AAFC wins. Oh my gosh I should change my entire outlook on the Browns. Nevermind they haven't done a single thing since the Superbowl started. I should really give them credit for being good in an 8 team league. Forget that they haven't done much since the merger and a 26 team league. You're so right.

tony hipchest
08-22-2008, 11:38 AM
what makes you so much better then us?



the scoreboard. :coffee:

stillers4me
08-22-2008, 12:17 PM
For 2 years it was the Bungles fans.......:blah::blah::blah::blah:

This year, the Clowns fans are coming out of the woodwork ....... :yap:

What he said.............the scoreboard.:checkit:

stlrtruck
08-22-2008, 12:29 PM
:drink: :hatsoff:
Thanks Stlrtruck. I find myself ALWAYS having to point this out.

I've got A LOT of respect for the Rooneys... they voted against the move. I can't stand rival fans who LOVE to bring it up.

I still love to bring it up, but only to see browns fans reactions. After playing around enough, I usually let them know how I truly feel about it.

RoethlisBURGHer
08-22-2008, 01:43 PM
Yeah, I think the move was bull and that Modell should have been forced to wait three years for a football team in Baltimore.

xfl2001fan
08-22-2008, 01:48 PM
Yeah, I think the move was bull and that Modell should have been forced to wait three years for a football team in Baltimore.

Seems irrelevant now. The Ravens suck and the Browns have had two winning seasons since the move.

j-dawg
08-22-2008, 05:50 PM
Seems irrelevant now. The Ravens suck and the Browns have had two winning seasons since the move.

:noidea: dude, I was pissed when the Ravens won that superbowl... much to the chagrin of all the fans in here, but seriously.... the move will never be irrelevant to me. Sure, it's water under the bridge. Yes, I'm glad to see the franchise doing better now... but Modell is chump. I can't hate on the Raven fans, the NFL shouldn't have let him take the team.

xfl2001fan
08-22-2008, 06:22 PM
As was I bro! Modell cheated us out of a Superbowl. Then again, I'm not too terribly upset...because I don't want my team associated with a killer and a snitch (Ray Lewis).

rbryan
08-24-2008, 11:30 AM
I can't imagine what it would feel like to lose the Steelers. But I think you have the right perspective on the Baltimore fans. It's not thier fault they got your team, I'd blame Tagliabue even more than Modell because he let it happen.

If anything you guys have a lot more in common with Baltimore fans than any other city since they went thru the same heartbreak.

silver & black
08-24-2008, 06:08 PM
There are two versions of the Cleveland Browns, Before Move and After Move.

Cleveland is the ONLY city that ended up retaining the name, colors, and history when the team was moved to another city.

When the Rams were moved from Cleveland to Los Angeles, Cleveland wasn't allowed to keep the name, colors, and history. When the Rams moved from Los Angeles to St. Louis, Los Angeles wasn't allowed to keep that stuff either.

When the Colts moved from Baltimore to Indianapolis, Baltimore didn't get to keep the Colts name, colors, and history either.

However when the Browns moved to Baltimore from Cleveland, somehow Cleveland ended up keeping the name, colors, and history,

It was unprecedented. It had never before happened.

But the fact is, the Cleveland Browns were moved to Baltimore, however Baltimore wasn't allowed to take the name, colors, and history.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that Art Model left the name, colors , and history in Cleveland because he felt it was the right thing to do... not because the NFL said he had to.

j-dawg
08-24-2008, 09:27 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that Art Model left the name, colors , and history in Cleveland because he felt it was the right thing to do... not because the NFL said he had to.

The mayor, Michael White, had to speak to Tagliabue to keep the Browns in Cleveland. In order for the move to take place, Art had to leave all the history and such behind. There was a three year lease that he was breaking and White was useing that as leverage. Modell stated in the beginning that he was taking the Browns to Baltimore, but then when he was told the move couldn't happen unless he left the Browns namesake and history in Cleveland, he changed his tune.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/longterm/memories/1995/95nfl4.htm

tony hipchest
08-25-2008, 10:44 AM
peter king is still jumping> :chuckle:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/08/24/mmqb/2.html

g. Brady Quinn: six series, six points. Not a good first NFL start.

h. The Browns, all 75 of them left in camp, need to Google "sense of urgency.''

i. Except maybe Shaun Rogers. He stuffed Detroit's running game throughout the first quarter. Not that he was out for any kind of revenge or anything like that.


o. If you think Terrell Owens and Tony Romo aren't drooling at the thought of playing that Cleveland secondary Sept. 7, you're nuts.

:chuckle: 0-2 baby! :tt02:

Dino 6 Rings
08-25-2008, 11:15 AM
Who gets fired first? Romeo Crennel or Marvin Lewis?

fansince'76
08-25-2008, 11:30 AM
peter king is still jumping> :chuckle:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/08/24/mmqb/2.html

Ehh. How seriously can I really take a sportswriter who still claims Kaptain Kornhole is the best QB in the AFCN?

Hmmm. Not sure if the team with the best quarterback in the division is automatically favored. Carson Palmer's the best in the AFC North, and the Bengals are the third- or fourth-best team in that division.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/08/12/mail/index.html

tony hipchest
08-25-2008, 11:35 AM
Ehh. How seriously can I really take a sportswriter who still claims Kaptain Kornhole is the best QB in the AFCN?

hes already preparing himself for the fall when he hops off that bandwagon, too.-

p. At some point -- not yet, but in the next few weeks -- we might actually be justified in worrying about Carson Palmer and the Cincinnati offense.

Dino 6 Rings
08-25-2008, 11:40 AM
Wait a second isn't Troy Smith the best QB in the AFC North...he did win a Heisman too ya know...or maybe its Brady Quinn...after all he played for the Irish...so he must be the best QB in the AFC North...it could be Palmer though...I mean he's thrown a total of 1 playoff pass in his NFL Career. He must be considered the best in the AFC North...

Amusing, isn't it.

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-25-2008, 12:20 PM
Ehh. How seriously can I really take a sportswriter who still claims Kaptain Kornhole is the best QB in the AFCN?



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/08/12/mail/index.html

This is the same Peter King who wrote how he doesnt blame fans for not wanting to pay full ticket price for pre-season games and advised they should just stay home.....THEN turned around two weeks later and slammed Jets fans for not filling the stadium for Brett Favre's pre-season debut.

He is to journalism...what Eddie the Eagle was to skiing.

fansince'76
08-25-2008, 12:33 PM
He is to journalism...what Eddie the Eagle was to skiing.

ROFLMAO!!!

http://www.nancarrow-webdesk.com/warehouse/storage2/2008-w06/img.112462_t.jpg

:toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

The Duke
08-25-2008, 03:32 PM
Who gets fired first? Romeo Crennel or Marvin Lewis?

crennel. at least the browns have brains

the bungles still think lewis is their savior and will keep him till the end

43Hitman
08-25-2008, 04:49 PM
This is the same Peter King who wrote how he doesnt blame fans for not wanting to pay full ticket price for pre-season games and advised they should just stay home.....THEN turned around two weeks later and slammed Jets fans for not filling the stadium for Brett Favre's pre-season debut.

He is to journalism...what Eddie the Eagle was to skiing.


Lol, I thought you were going to say He is to journalism..What Eddie of "Eddie and the Cruisers" was to bridges...:chuckle:

silver & black
08-25-2008, 07:07 PM
The mayor, Michael White, had to speak to Tagliabue to keep the Browns in Cleveland. In order for the move to take place, Art had to leave all the history and such behind. There was a three year lease that he was breaking and White was useing that as leverage. Modell stated in the beginning that he was taking the Browns to Baltimore, but then when he was told the move couldn't happen unless he left the Browns namesake and history in Cleveland, he changed his tune.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/longterm/memories/1995/95nfl4.htm

Ok, thanks. I live relatively close to Cleveland, so I remember the hurt, pain and anguish that the area was feeling.

I remember Modell on one of the local news programs stating his dsire to leave the city with it's name, history and colors because he felt it was wrong to take them from Cleveland. I should have known that it was just BS.

My uncle was a bar tender at a very upscale club in Cleveland that Modell frequented. He said he never met a bigger a$$hole in his life.

steel striker
08-26-2008, 07:59 PM
Yeah I guess King and the rest of that stupid bunch never heard of our guy Big Ben. You know some people talk about no respect well our QB does not seem to get much respect. I guess after we win the Sb this year those media types might finally get it.

Steelman16
08-26-2008, 08:29 PM
Yeah I guess King and the rest of that stupid bunch never heard of our guy Big Ben. You know some people talk about no respect well our QB does not seem to get much respect. I guess after we win the Sb this year those media types might finally get it.

I wouldn't bet on it. That means they'd have to share some quarterback love that goes to Tom Brady*.

IMO, though, Ben does have the respect of the league, but not the media love fest that Brady* has.

j-dawg
08-26-2008, 11:16 PM
:chuckle: 0-2 baby! :tt02:

:coffee: One home game loss last year and you think it'll double out the gate... :doh:

I could care less what King thinks... it's preseason.

tony hipchest
08-26-2008, 11:57 PM
:coffee: One home game loss last year and you think it'll double out the gate... :doh:

I could care less what King thinks... it's preseason.im not saying it will double out the gate... im just saying the browns wont beat the cowboys or the steelers.

i dont care what king thinks either (after all he is/was on the browns bandwagon and ranked big ben as the #17 qb in the league last year).

he sure is great for entertainment though! :tt02:

(if it werent scheduled to be such a "tight" divisional race i would be rooting for the brownies vs. the cowboys though.)

Havik
09-01-2008, 12:41 PM
The Browns are nothing but the flavor of the month, i.e. the 2005 Bengals or the 2006 Saints. A bit of luck combined with a last place schedule gave them a winning season. Now that the expectations are higher, with a much tougher schedule, I at most expect a 7-9 record.

jjpro11
09-01-2008, 03:30 PM
the browns are looking a lot like we did in the preseason following our super bowl win.. overconfident and stupid. we all know how that season turned out. i think the browns are way too full of themselves for what they have accomplished or didnt accomplish for that matter. i have been saying all year that when you breakdown their schedule last year, and the performance of some of their players against weaker and stronger teams (anderson), it is nothing to brag about or look forward to. they are a .500 club at best with this year's schedule.

jjpro11
09-01-2008, 03:34 PM
The Browns are nothing but the flavor of the month, i.e. the 2005 Bengals or the 2006 Saints. A bit of luck combined with a last place schedule gave them a winning season. Now that the expectations are higher, with a much tougher schedule, I at most expect a 7-9 record.

similarly, they are all 3 offensie teams first with glaring weaknesses on defense. the media loves offense even though those teams never go far.. everyone knows that the year the colts won the super bowl, they had a bad defense in the regular season.. but once bob sanders came back for the playoffs, their defense was spectacular. you arent going to win championships without defense.

Havik
09-01-2008, 04:12 PM
Sigh. I don't know how many times I have to tell people, the Browns are still the Browns.

lilyoder6
09-01-2008, 04:40 PM
hell ur qb might not be even rdy 4 the 1st game.. he might think that pacman will be trying to eat him

revefsreleets
09-01-2008, 05:45 PM
The Browns will have DA, Jamal and Braylon back for the first game, so they will possibly be able to score some points (possibly, because DA is a ticking time-bomb: It's only a matter of time until that pPrince turns back into a frog).

But that defense...eeeshk are they gonna suck the joint up. And the injuries don't help.

steelwall
09-01-2008, 06:42 PM
No...the AFC North Crown runs through Pittsburgh Every Single Season.

That is what you fans of the Ravens, Browns and Bengals refuse to recognize.

18 times we have been crowned the Champ of the Central/North. 18. The other teams total, including Jacksonville, Houston and Tennesse, with the Ravens, Bengals and Browns have 19 total. Between all of them.

Every Single Year. It is the STEELERS Crown. You are all just attempting to take it for one single season. That's It.

Recognize the Glory of the Steelers as it Stands Before You.

Admit it, just say "Hey, you guys really are one of the greatest franchise ever in football and it is an honor to get to play you twice a year." Be humbled by the opportunity in front of you to test yourselves against the Greatness that is the Pittsburgh Steelers. Never think you are better, just be humble and enjoy the times you do get a single win from us.

Couldnt have said it better myself.:thumbsup:

9-5
09-02-2008, 12:56 AM
The Browns are nothing but the flavor of the month, i.e. the 2005 Bengals or the 2006 Saints. A bit of luck combined with a last place schedule gave them a winning season. Now that the expectations are higher, with a much tougher schedule, I at most expect a 7-9 record.
Hate to say it dude, but 14 or 15 of our games were exactly the same. I think our only uncommon game was we played Buffalo and you played SD. So, the schedule talk is meaningless because we played virtually the same schedule.

jjpro11
09-02-2008, 07:51 AM
Hate to say it dude, but 14 or 15 of our games were exactly the same. I think our only uncommon game was we played Buffalo and you played SD. So, the schedule talk is meaningless because we played virtually the same schedule.

you guys really squeaked out some games you were on the verge of losing.. seattle, baltimore, and st louis, who had steven jackson running all over you until he got hurt. and who could forget anderson's meltdown in cincy with a playoff birth on the line.

revefsreleets
09-02-2008, 08:17 AM
But if we draw Buffalo instead of SD, we go 11-5 and you go 9-7. Big difference...

9-5
09-03-2008, 12:46 AM
But if we draw Buffalo instead of SD, we go 11-5 and you go 9-7. Big difference...
the what if's mean nothing.

If the refs make the correct call and rule Kellen Winslow was forced out, we go 11-5. Playoffs.

If Nat Dorsey doesn't get raped by a 3rd string DT, we go 12-4.

But, it didn't happen that way, so tough luck. LITP is a bad way to live.

CantStop85
09-03-2008, 07:42 AM
LITP is a bad way to live.

lol

Indeed.

revefsreleets
09-03-2008, 08:38 AM
This from a guy who was going on about Championships from the Truman era?

Besides, YOU were the one who brought up last year and common opponents, not me.

There are some sharp Browns fans out there...you ain't one of 'em.

Dino 6 Rings
09-03-2008, 08:39 AM
So how much is Dallas favored by this weekend anyway?

revefsreleets
09-03-2008, 08:59 AM
So how much is Dallas favored by this weekend anyway?

Think it's 5 1/2

xfl2001fan
09-03-2008, 10:59 AM
Think it's 5 1/2

That it? Probably only because it's the first game of the season. I don't think Vegas wants to risk pushing blowouts this early in the season.

fansince'76
09-03-2008, 11:04 AM
That it? Probably only because it's the first game of the season. I don't think Vegas wants to risk pushing blowouts this early in the season.

Well, it's a home game for the Browns too. Probably dumb of me to feel this way, but I don't care - I hope the Browns beat them. I truly, TRULY dislike the Cowboys. I don't think I've ever seen a team get more hype for doing less than the Cowboys during the 21st Century so far.

xfl2001fan
09-03-2008, 11:12 AM
Generally, the odds makers won't start making the bigger "lines" until W3 (if I remember right.) I've got buddy's that gamble all the time during football season. (Not big money, but they've got a budget for it).

There's no telling how rusty a team really is in those first few weeks.

revefsreleets
09-03-2008, 11:33 AM
5 1/2 actually equals 8 1/2 because the Browns get the auto 3 for playing at home. I don't think it will be that close of a game. The Browns O will be out of synch, and Romo will have a field day lighting up that secondary. I'm thinking in the neighborhood of 35-17.

xfl2001fan
09-03-2008, 12:48 PM
If last season's success carries over, then at least we'll play well at home. I don't have a lot of confidence going into this game. Very cautiously optimistic for the season, but I can easily see where this is going to present a problem.

revefsreleets
09-03-2008, 03:39 PM
Considering all the injuries, I just don't see how that offense can effectively be on the same page. I hate them, but the Cowboys are a very good football team, and they are solid in all phases of the game. You got a sucky draw playing two of the best football teams in the NFL weeks one and two...

xfl2001fan
09-03-2008, 04:41 PM
Considering all the injuries, I just don't see how that offense can effectively be on the same page. I hate them, but the Cowboys are a very good football team, and they are solid in all phases of the game. You got a sucky draw playing two of the best football teams in the NFL weeks one and two...

Yeah, well, you still gotta play the games. Some people are chalking those two games up to being losses, but does it really matter if it's W1 and W2 as opposed to W8 and W9?

revefsreleets
09-03-2008, 05:32 PM
In the Browns case, yes. Preseason is supposed to answer questions, not present them. The OL is unsettled and hasn't played together, DA hasn't taken a snap in a few weeks, and there's no way that unit will hit all cylinders this weekend. Lewis and Edwards aren't quite as big of a deal (although DA to Braylon might be off a bit).

The injuries on the defensive side won't be as big of a problem as far as cohesion, but aren't some key guys still gimpy?

All in all, you don't want to play these two teams back to back to start the season given the condition of many of your best players...

xfl2001fan
09-03-2008, 06:55 PM
In the Browns case, yes. Preseason is supposed to answer questions, not present them. The OL is unsettled and hasn't played together, DA hasn't taken a snap in a few weeks, and there's no way that unit will hit all cylinders this weekend. Lewis and Edwards aren't quite as big of a deal (although DA to Braylon might be off a bit).

The injuries on the defensive side won't be as big of a problem as far as cohesion, but aren't some key guys still gimpy?

All in all, you don't want to play these two teams back to back to start the season given the condition of many of your best players...

Be honest. If all of our guys were fully healthy, what would you give our chances vs the Cowboys and the Steelers in the first two weeks? You have been marking us up as 0-2 since before preseason began.

I'm pretty sure that confidence isn't going to be an issue (at least with our offense) and our secondary is already a question mark. We (the AFC North) are running a gauntlet this season, with very few easy OOC games and most of the best WR's in the NFL on our slate.

Two of the Browns toughest games start the season, meaning that (with a few exceptions like the Colts and Jags) the rest of the schedule only gets easier. Not much, but easier.

If we lose to the Cowboys by 6 points, it'll help my cautious optimism a fraction. I hate a loss, but the Cowboys are a pretty darn good regular season team. I'll just hope we improve and that we see them again later in the season.

revefsreleets
09-03-2008, 08:40 PM
Be honest. If all of our guys were fully healthy, what would you give our chances vs the Cowboys and the Steelers in the first two weeks? You have been marking us up as 0-2 since before preseason began.

I'm pretty sure that confidence isn't going to be an issue (at least with our offense) and our secondary is already a question mark. We (the AFC North) are running a gauntlet this season, with very few easy OOC games and most of the best WR's in the NFL on our slate.

Two of the Browns toughest games start the season, meaning that (with a few exceptions like the Colts and Jags) the rest of the schedule only gets easier. Not much, but easier.

If we lose to the Cowboys by 6 points, it'll help my cautious optimism a fraction. I hate a loss, but the Cowboys are a pretty darn good regular season team. I'll just hope we improve and that we see them again later in the season.

I'd give you even odds for the Cowgirls, but 90/10 for the Steelers. We own you, and there is no indication that the "new Browns' have ever bought into the rivalry.

But I have zero probability for wins in either game as things stand now...