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BlastFurnace
08-23-2008, 11:15 PM
WR: Willie Reid is showing himself to be a good receiver. I like Dallas Baker as well, but Reid has stepped up more. I won't be disappointed if either makes the team, but clearly, Reid has looked really good. Limas Sweed is lucky he is a 2nd round draft pick. I think he will eventually be an excellent receiver, but so far, he has been the least impressive of all the receivers.

The best part of this game is that Ben did not get injured after getting hit so much. Willie Colon may be the worst RT we have had since some of the guys we started in 1999. The right half of our O'line is downright scarry. The O'line probably played the best D'line tonight that they will see all year.

Mendenhall looked great tonight. I'm going to give him a pass on the fumbles. His footwork and burst through the line gave us a vision of what he will bring to our offense for years to come. I wish we could get the Bus to come to camp and work with Mendenhall like he worked with Willie. By the way, Willie has looked quicker this preseason than he did all last year.

This is the 2nd game in a row that I saw Anthony Smith explode off the line and take a runner down in the backfield. The kid is explosive. I wish he could make a better impression with the coaches.

Looks like Timmons may "Wally Pipp" his way into the starting lineup. Take it and run Lawrence. I like Foote, but I saw Timmons do things tonight in the pass rush that I have never seen Foote do.

Special Teams coverage, minus the kickoff return last week, has looked much better this preseason.

I loved how Tomlin rushed the FG team out there at the end of the game. Great to see the coach looking at the big picture in the future. That will pay dividends down the road this year.

Since it seems that Dixon is a lock to make the team, more nice thinking by Tomlin to give Leftwich reps out there. Another decision that will pay dividends this season.

Speaking of the schedule...it may say the Steelers have the toughest schedule, but I bet at the end of the year, it won't be the toughest.

WWIIOwheelz
08-23-2008, 11:20 PM
Looks like Timmons may "Wally Pipp" his way into the starting lineup. Take it and run Lawrence. I like Foote, but I saw Timmons do things tonight in the pass rush that I have never seen Foote do.

Timmons is looking great.

I'm really, really excited about the return of our pass rush this season, and I think he'll be a big part of it.

X-Terminator
08-23-2008, 11:26 PM
The constant pressure from the D tonight was the best I've seen in over a year. Woodley, Timmons and J. Harrison were in Frerotte's face all night long. The only thing that needs to be shored up is the 3rd down pass D, but you have to love the pressure. If they bring it like that against the Colts, *s and Cowgirls, they will make P. Manning, Marsha Brady and Tony Homo have nightmares.

Shoes
08-23-2008, 11:30 PM
With this OL Ben is not going to make it through this season with the schedule we face. Ben made excuses last year for OL and he's doing it again this year. It great to be positive but the C-staff better wake up!

Edman
08-23-2008, 11:42 PM
The Defense really impressed me tonight. Especially after the intense criticism I've thrown on them last week.

Silverback called them out and they've responded as well as I've ever seen. They coralled Adrian Peterson and Chester Taylor, two better than solid backs and put consistent pressure on Minnesota's O-Line, which is lightyears better than ours. Ironically, Minnesota allowed more sacks than Pittsburgh, despite how terrible the pass protection was for Ben.

Timmons is a freak. I feel bad for Larry Foote, but Timmons has clearly outplayed him and is a much more dynamic force in the middle.

Bruce Arians has to be the dumbest Offensive Coordinator in the NFL. If the Offensive Line doesn't hamper the Steeler offense this year, I'm certain this guy will. Ben at WR? The QB sneak on the final drive? The illegal formation penalties? Who the hell commits three illegal formation penalties in a game?

Willie Colon is out of place at Tackle. He's a guard. But since Kendoll Simmons got his big contract, he's pretty much stuck there.

Rashard Mendenhall once again put up a great running game. It was spoiled by his fumbles, though.

fansince'76
08-23-2008, 11:47 PM
Mendenhall looked great tonight. I'm going to give him a pass on the fumbles.

Sorry, but I'm not. Nobody EVER gave Willie a pass for his fumbling problem earlier in his career and he didn't cost us a first round pick. Mendenhall's gaffes almost cost us the game tonight. I think the kid's going to be a player, but he needs to learn to take care of the ball.

OneForTheToe
08-23-2008, 11:49 PM
Good points. I'll add a few.

It was smart to play Byron the rest of this game. Dixon will play most of the last game.

I thought the d'line looked good tonight. All three starting d'linemen were getting penetration. More specifically, Aaron Smith was beastly as usual, while "Big Snack" seemed to be coming off the ball as if the back was toting a side of beef instead of a pig skin.

Our o'line will continue to struggle with pass blocking this season. I guess that shouldn't be a surprise. You don't completely turn that around in a year, particularly when you lose your best o'lineman. Did anybody notice how Hartwig did? I think Tomlin has to stick with him for the time being regardless since we need continuity.

Nice to see Tyrone Carter make some nice plays in run support. This injury to Troy is making me worry. You don't have to disclose injuries in the pre-season so could it be worse than reported so far? I hope not. Maybe Tomlin was just worried about Troy trying to blow-up Petersen and getting hurt.. Because we know Troy only knows one speed when he plays.

X-Terminator
08-24-2008, 12:00 AM
Good points. I'll add a few.

It was smart to play Byron the rest of this game. Dixon will play most of the last game.

I thought the d'line looked good tonight. All three starting d'linemen were getting penetration. More specifically, Aaron Smith was beastly as usual, while "Big Snack" seemed to be coming off the ball as if the back was toting a side of beef instead of a pig skin.

Our o'line will continue to struggle with pass blocking this season. I guess that shouldn't be a surprise. You don't completely turn that around in a year, particularly when you lose your best o'lineman. Did anybody notice how Hartwig did? I think Tomlin has to stick with him for the time being regardless since we need continuity.

Nice to see Tyrone Carter make some nice plays in run support. This injury to Troy is making me worry. You don't have to disclose injuries in the pre-season so could it be worse than reported so far? I hope not. Maybe Tomlin was just worried about Troy trying to blow-up Petersen and getting hurt.. Because we know Troy only knows one speed when he plays.

Neither Tom Brady nor Peyton Manning have played this preseason, and nobody's panicking about them.

Relax.

As for Hartwig, ugh. The guy did absolutely nothing tonight to deserve the starting job over Mahan, as much as many fans would love to see happen. The team actually moved the ball better with Mahan at C tonight, albeit against 2nd team guys. Let's face it, the OL has many more problems than just one guy at one position.

The Duke
08-24-2008, 12:04 AM
Sorry, but I'm not. Nobody EVER gave Willie a pass for his fumbling problem earlier in his career and he didn't cost us a first round pick. Mendenhall's gaffes almost cost us the game tonight. I think the kid's going to be a player, but he needs to learn to take care of the ball.

but willie sucks and is too small :rolleyes:

lol. same here, can't just forgive his fumbles, he has to work on that. I heard he had no fumbles in college, don't know if that's true though

good thing is, without the fumbles he had a great game. he's really stepping up after average performances before

OneForTheToe
08-24-2008, 12:06 AM
Neither Tom Brady nor Peyton Manning have played this preseason, and nobody's panicking about them.

Relax.

As for Hartwig, ugh. The guy did absolutely nothing tonight to deserve the starting job over Mahan, as much as many fans would love to see happen. The team actually moved the ball better with Mahan at C tonight, albeit against 2nd team guys. Let's face it, the OL has many more problems than just one guy at one position.

I'm not panicking about Troy just a little worried. But the more I think about it, I'm kind of glad he didn't play. I could just see Troy throwing his shoulder into Petterson with reckless abandon and not getting up.

I'm not sure which of the two centers has played better, but I think when Tomlin decided to start Hartwig tonight that was his decision to start the season with him. Simply put, there is no combination of players presently on this team that is going to provide stellar pass protection. The key now is to get the starters as much time together as a unit in practice as we can. We will have to deal with our guys getting over-matched at times this year, but let's cut down on the number of mistakes on assignments like we saw between Simmons and Colon. BTW, great interview with Simmons after the game. He took complete responsibility for that "jail break" on that play in the first half and I am not sure it was all his fault. I think he was trying to help deflect criticism away from Colon which is the kind of act that can lead to the cohesion that can make an average line better than average.

verks36
08-24-2008, 12:11 AM
I am really really worried about the oline.

fansince'76
08-24-2008, 12:17 AM
I'm not panicking about Troy just a little worried. but the more I think about it, i'm kind of glad he didn't play. I could just see him throwing his shoulder into Petterson with reckless abandon and not getting up.

Watching him pace that sideline, it looked like he REALLY wanted to be out there to me.

12+88=6
08-24-2008, 12:36 AM
i liked the sack woodley got right before halftime. he just ran through the tackle and laid him flat on his back. it was a de-cleater. or a de-astroturfshoer.

and leftwitch has a rocket for an arm still.

Preacher
08-24-2008, 12:36 AM
Our LB's looked very strong tonight, as did our D line. Ike actually caught a ball, which is amazing.

Willie looked pretty dang good. Mende looked good when he could keep the ball. He'll hear about it and go through the pains like Willie did.

The only thing I am really kinda worried ab out is the O line. Ben will be fine. IT is the line that worries me... again.

The Duke
08-24-2008, 12:43 AM
With this OL Ben is not going to make it through this season with the schedule we face. Ben made excuses last year for OL and he's doing it again this year. It great to be positive but the C-staff better wake up!

yeah, enough with the excuses

“I think it was a terrible performance on my part,” said Roethlisberger. “We didn’t come out and game plan too much. We have some things we need to correct on offense. I am disappointed with my play. I think we had some good opportunities missed on my part and we have to make sure it doesn’t happen again.”

terrible performance by the o line, they have to correct some issues, they have to take the opportunities and make sure they don't happen again

I love ben's leadership here, but his o line is just not good, and he has to recognize that

X-Terminator
08-24-2008, 02:14 AM
yeah, enough with the excuses



terrible performance by the o line, they have to correct some issues, they have to take the opportunities and make sure they don't happen again

I love ben's leadership here, but his o line is just not good, and he has to recognize that

And as I said in the Gameday thread, the second Ben does that, the fans and the media will be all over him, accusing him of passing the blame onto the OL. So what do should he do? Publicly criticize the OL and get blasted, or blame himself while protecting his OL...and get blasted? He's in a no-win situation.

Steeldude
08-24-2008, 04:05 AM
simmons, colon and hartwig/mahan are going to be a problem all season.

colon is not a tackle at all.

i'll still say move smith to RT and starks to LT. then the steelers can either bench colon or move him into the RG spot. the O-line isn't going to get any better next season.

Texasteel
08-24-2008, 05:29 AM
Watching him pace that sideline, it looked like he REALLY wanted to be out there to me.

He looked a little like a caged Tiger. If he had of played I'm afraid he would have either hurt himself, or killed someone.
Woodley just keeps looking better and better, as does Timmons. May be to early to say Ham, Lambert but who knows.
Moore was a very good signing.
Mahan is winning the battle at center.
Mendenhall is going to be great, I don't remember him having a fumbling problem in collage.
Reid is scared to death he is going to loose his job. I have never seen him play like that in a Steelers uniform.
Leftwich move extremely well in the pocket, looked more comfortable, getting his feel back for the game. I would like to see him show a little more touch.
Smith is back to form, seemed like there were 3 people wearing him number. We need to work on replacing him now because if he did quit we have no one that could fill ever one of his shoes.
Last point, I still can't stand to see the Steelers trailing late in the game.

Some very good signs last night. :drink:

GBMelBlount
08-24-2008, 06:33 AM
WR: Willie Reid is showing himself to be a good receiver. I like Dallas Baker as well, but Reid has stepped up more. I won't be disappointed if either makes the team, but clearly, Reid has looked really good. Limas Sweed is lucky he is a 2nd round draft pick. I think he will eventually be an excellent receiver, but so far, he has been the least impressive of all the receivers.

The best part of this game is that Ben did not get injured after getting hit so much. Willie Colon may be the worst RT we have had since some of the guys we started in 1999. The right half of our O'line is downright scarry. The O'line probably played the best D'line tonight that they will see all year.

Mendenhall looked great tonight. I'm going to give him a pass on the fumbles. His footwork and burst through the line gave us a vision of what he will bring to our offense for years to come. I wish we could get the Bus to come to camp and work with Mendenhall like he worked with Willie. By the way, Willie has looked quicker this preseason than he did all last year.

This is the 2nd game in a row that I saw Anthony Smith explode off the line and take a runner down in the backfield. The kid is explosive. I wish he could make a better impression with the coaches.

Looks like Timmons may "Wally Pipp" his way into the starting lineup. Take it and run Lawrence. I like Foote, but I saw Timmons do things tonight in the pass rush that I have never seen Foote do.

Special Teams coverage, minus the kickoff return last week, has looked much better this preseason.

I loved how Tomlin rushed the FG team out there at the end of the game. Great to see the coach looking at the big picture in the future. That will pay dividends down the road this year.

Since it seems that Dixon is a lock to make the team, more nice thinking by Tomlin to give Leftwich reps out there. Another decision that will pay dividends this season.

Speaking of the schedule...it may say the Steelers have the toughest schedule, but I bet at the end of the year, it won't be the toughest.

Nice post. I pretty much agree with all your points. I'm not concerned about Mende's fumbling YET but can't give the o-line a pass due to playing a very good defense. This line situation could actually be an embarassment this year and as stated earlier, could get worse.....certainly hoping for them to "turn it around" though.

xfl2001fan
08-24-2008, 06:41 AM
Your defense is about as scary (good) as I've seen in a loooong time. With the kind of pressure your LBs created, your secondary could be terrible, and most teams will never know it.

Mendenhall looked like he had 1st round potential with 4th round hands.

One good thing you can take away from this game, that's probably the best D-line you'll face all season...so it's not likely to get any worse for you guys (and particularly Ben) than last night.

Of course, that's like a slight silver lining on the biggest thundercloud your team has. Still, with quicker pass patterns, the O-line (and Ben) won't look nearly as bad during the season.

Galax Steeler
08-24-2008, 07:10 AM
The deffense looke really good Woodley is playing really well and Mendenhall has some quick moves and speed I think he will cure his fumbling problems and be one hell of a back for us.

43Hitman
08-24-2008, 07:16 AM
yeah, enough with the excuses



terrible performance by the o line, they have to correct some issues, they have to take the opportunities and make sure they don't happen again

I love ben's leadership here, but his o line is just not good, and he has to recognize that


And at some point a good leader must realize that he has to get on his troops once in a while. Or they will get used to him covering for them all the time and not take responsibility for their poor play.

Alva Lord
08-24-2008, 07:51 AM
Sorry, but I'm not. Nobody EVER gave Willie a pass for his fumbling problem earlier in his career and he didn't cost us a first round pick. Mendenhall's gaffes almost cost us the game tonight. I think the kid's going to be a player, but he needs to learn to take care of the ball.
:coffee: That's dead on right. There is no excuse or forgiveness for a running back who fumbles, especially twice.

Alva Lord
08-24-2008, 08:00 AM
And at some point a good leader must realize that he has to get on his troops once in a while. Or they will get used to him covering for them all the time and not take responsibility for their poor play.
A good leader doesn't call out his teammates in public. Ben handled that question correctly because he had no other choice.

Kaeg
08-24-2008, 08:13 AM
My big concern is also the O line as with most people. Our D looked very good except one thing that's nagging at me: Did we let Frerotte look that good or was he really that sharp last night? I'm kinda leaning toward he was pretty on except for his toss to Ike. (thx for holding on to that one, Ike.)

Alva Lord
08-24-2008, 08:23 AM
The right side of the Steelers OL has been a weakness for several years. Like I've said already Willie Colon is no better than Max Starks, especially at pass protection. They both resemble turn styles.

stillers4me
08-24-2008, 08:42 AM
A good leader doesn't call out his teammates in public. Ben handled that question correctly because he had no other choice.


Bingo! That's exactly the response I was going to post. We have no idea what is said in the locker room. Ben has too much class to call out his teammates in public. But he can rip them a new one in the locker room for all I care.

Atlanta Dan
08-24-2008, 08:59 AM
What is disturbing is that a mediocre (at best) OL will be even worse in 2009

I assume they are trying to work something out with Starks (Smith is in terminal decline)
but my guess is both the starting and back-up LT are gone in 2009

Making no real effort to draft for the OL the past several years (the #4 pick of Hills appears to be at best selection of a "project") is the gift that keeps on giving

Impressed by the D and K Reed (and WR Reid played surprisingly well) last night - assuming Foote is OK the goal of no major injuries to starters in pre-season games has been achieved

Shoes
08-24-2008, 09:11 AM
Bingo! That's exactly the response I was going to post. We have no idea what is said in the locker room. Ben has too much class to call out his teammates in public. But he can rip them a new one in the locker room for all I care.

I agree Ben has wonderful diplomatic skills but I also remember Jack Lambert ripping into his team mates when needed, not caring who else heard......with great results! James Harrison also seemed like it was needed last week when he shared his feeling about the defense...also with good results.

Atlanta Dan
08-24-2008, 09:22 AM
I agree Ben has wonderful diplomatic skills but I also remember Jack Lambert ripping into his team mates when needed, not caring who else heard......with great results! James Harrison also seemed like it was needed last week when he shared his feeling about the defense...also with good results.

Peyton does it with the Colts, but usually it is a non-QB who calls out the team in public for lack of effort. I concede the 70s Steelers had so many leaders it was not necessary for him to step up, but Bradshaw was not the one to call players out on that team.

Harrison seems to be the spiritual heir to Porter in terms of telling the D to shape up (and hopefully ratcheting young guns Woodley and Timmons into states of rage:chuckle:) ; Hines may be the default choice on offense

Havik
08-24-2008, 09:29 AM
The defense was excellent. The d-line and linebackers did a great job of shutting down Taylor and Peterson, and pressuring Frerotte. Ike Taylor looked good and has learned how to hold on to an interception. Special teams were also impressive. The coverage looked good, and Jeff Reed's performance was great. That being said, I still don't think the problems on special teams will be fixed for at least another season, but the tackling has improved. Keyaron Fox once again was impressive and looks like a good signing.

The offensive line was very mediocre and once again showed it is the Steelers weakness. Ben didn't really show much, but how can he be expected to play well with no pass protection? Leftwich did a decent job. Heath Miller looked great. I thought the run blocking was poor, and Colon has to be the worst RT I have ever seen on this team. I think they should move Smith to RT and Starks to LT. Hartwig really didn't show me anything.

xfl2001fan
08-24-2008, 09:48 AM
Yeah, I forgot about Heath Miller. That guy is one of the most underrated TEs in the league right now.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-24-2008, 09:55 AM
I kept a close watch on the O line and Smith again did a great job, but Allen's speed really made him work. Kemo is so powerful, its fun to watch. Hartwig played well, he seemed more natural and handled his assignmens fine.

Simmons missed a DT as he went for the wrong guy on a blitz, and as much as I like Colon, he really got beat by the speed on the outside. There could be a chance that Trai Essex gets a look at RT, heck....I would rather even see Starks for 1 more season after that first half by Willie.

LVSteelersfan
08-24-2008, 10:05 AM
And at some point a good leader must realize that he has to get on his troops once in a while. Or they will get used to him covering for them all the time and not take responsibility for their poor play.

How do you know he is not getting on their butts OUT OF SIGHT OF THE MEDIA? That is what the good leaders do instead of publicly blasting them like Peyton Manning would.

Timmons is a beast. Foote's injury just might put Timmons into that starting lineup. Aaron Smith showed why he is one of the best in a 3-4 and why we missed him so much last year.

Tyrone Carter played like he was playing for his job which he was. I think he makes the team now which is ok because we have no depth there. Dallas Baker just lost his job. Moore or Mendenhall are probably going to get the KR job and send the new guy packing. Sweed needs a LOT OF WORK but has potential. Willie Reid played for his job and did a good job. Probably saved his job. Anthony Smith had a couple of monster hits. I just hope he gets his head screwed on straight if we have any injuries because Carter is not the answer back there.

Willie Colon and Kendal Simmons flat out suck. Don't blame the Oline woes on Hartwig. It is that right side all the way. They need walking papers. Get Starks in there and COLON out. Simmons I guess we have to live with unfortunately. Our tight ends need to block better to help those idiots.

Rashard just needs to learn to use those big biceps to hang onto that ball. He did a little better getting his head down but still does too much straight up stuff when there is no hole. Don't run up the middle or to the right side already. Willie looks good and is in for another good season.

Oh yeah, did I mention that WILLIE COLON SUCKS???????????

Dino 6 Rings
08-24-2008, 10:17 AM
Seems like we all watched the same game. Some things good, some things...not so good.

One thing I came away with. Reed can kick fieldgoals. I'm a fan of that.

Otherwise, no one went down for the season...we have one more to get through and then...Houston.

rbryan
08-24-2008, 11:01 AM
I don't know what the deal is with Colon. I really thought this was the year he would take his game to the next level. I wouldn't be surprised if they moved Starks back to RT.

43Hitman
08-24-2008, 11:19 AM
And at some point a good leader must realize that he has to get on his troops once in a while. Or they will get used to him covering for them all the time and not take responsibility for their poor play.

Allow me to clarify my statement before I take more of a beating. I didn't mean to imply he do it publicly. However, if he has been on their arse in private and it isn't doing any good then maybe he should embarrass them a little. Just an opinion..please don't lynch me for it.

steel striker
08-24-2008, 11:21 AM
Well I just hope the oline gets it stuff together or, Ben will be running for his life all season. If Mendenhall can hold on to the ball we might really have something there in him. No doubt our defense tackled much better and, could be a scary thing for the rest of nfl to deal with. Leftwich looked pretty solid there, and he looks tgo be in top shape. Like Dino said one more pre season to get through then we will see what happens against the texans.

xfl2001fan
08-24-2008, 11:26 AM
Allow me to clarify my statement before I take more of a beating. I didn't mean to imply he do it publicly. However, if he has been on their arse in private and it isn't doing any good then maybe he should embarrass them a little. Just an opinion..please don't lynch me for it.

In the end, it's all speculation. If, by Ben outing them publically, they improve, this thread will all be water under the bridge and forgotten like yesterday's used toilet paper.

PalmerSteel
08-24-2008, 11:27 AM
ok, as bad as our o-line played, we still could of easily had double digit points on the board by half. BEN did not throw well tonight and the mend fumble is just as a big of a reason as the oline play why we only had 3 points. believe it or not, i am less concerned after last night first half than i was after the last game. we played the league's best D that we will probably play all year. half time adjustments and we would have been fine. i am confident!

rbryan
08-24-2008, 11:35 AM
Anyone else notice that Mendenhall seems to have no endurance whatsoever? He makes a nice 7 yard run and has to sit out two plays gasping for air. I'd like to think my #1 stud RB would have a little more wind capacity. Maybe its nerves, maybe he's not breathing properly, but he almost looks like he's hyperventilating after every carry.

BlastFurnace
08-24-2008, 11:59 AM
:coffee: That's dead on right. There is no excuse or forgiveness for a running back who fumbles, especially twice.

Have you forgiven Jerome for the Indy playoff game yet?

stillers4me
08-24-2008, 12:21 PM
Have you forgiven Jerome for the Indy playoff game yet?

Well, actually, no. :flap:

He is personally responsible for nearly giving me a heart attack at the tender age of 46 and making me endure the worst 4 minutes of my entire life.

Time heals all wounds.........:sofunny:

stillers4me
08-24-2008, 12:23 PM
Anyone else notice that Mendenhall seems to have no endurance whatsoever? He makes a nice 7 yard run and has to sit out two plays gasping for air. I'd like to think my #1 stud RB would have a little more wind capacity. Maybe its nerves, maybe he's not breathing properly, but he almost looks like he's hyperventilating after every carry.

He had a few carries right before they showed that, didn't he?

Alva Lord
08-24-2008, 01:04 PM
Have you forgiven Jerome for the Indy playoff game yet?
They won the game didn't they? Now if they lost...?

X-Terminator
08-24-2008, 01:11 PM
Allow me to clarify my statement before I take more of a beating. I didn't mean to imply he do it publicly. However, if he has been on their arse in private and it isn't doing any good then maybe he should embarrass them a little. Just an opinion..please don't lynch me for it.

Well we once had a member here who implied (no, damn near guaranteed) that the reason why Ben didn't win the MVP last year was because the rest of the team didn't like or respect him. So if he is right about that (and he's not), why would he be on their asses in private, which would probably make him less respected among his teammates?

No, Ben did the right thing here. You just cannot call out or embarrass your front line like that, whether it's in public or private. And even if he did it in private, the media in this town would still find out about it, and then the shit will hit the fan. He seems to be the kind of guy who would rather encourage than criticize, and leaves the verbal ass kickings to the coaches.

Alva Lord
08-24-2008, 01:21 PM
Do you remember what happened to Frankenstein, (Peyton Manning) after he publicly singled out his offensive line for a loss? Peyton was chastised in the press the following day and week for throwing his offensive line under the bus and for not accepting his culpability in their loss.

Ben did the right thing.

HometownGal
08-24-2008, 01:46 PM
I kept a close watch on the O line and Smith again did a great job, but Allen's speed really made him work. Kemo is so powerful, its fun to watch. Hartwig played well, he seemed more natural and handled his assignmens fine.

Simmons missed a DT as he went for the wrong guy on a blitz, and as much as I like Colon, he really got beat by the speed on the outside. There could be a chance that Trai Essex gets a look at RT, heck....I would rather even see Starks for 1 more season after that first half by Willie.

El Gonzo - did we watch the same game??? :yikes: I recorded the game on my DVR and watched it again this morning and we aren't seeing the same things.

Marvel got the beat down several times clearly and Hartwig was overpowered and allowed the Vikes linemen to get through him on more than one occasion - more than several, in fact. At this point, neither he or Mahan are starting C material but as you well know, I think I'd rather have Mahan as he is more familiar not only with the L as a whole, but Zierlein and Tomlin, as well as my opinion that he played better in the first game vs. the Eagles than Hartwig has played against either the Bills or Vikes.

Willie Reid had a nice game and Jeff Reed was spot on as always! :tt03:

X-Terminator
08-24-2008, 01:58 PM
I kept a close watch on the O line and Smith again did a great job, but Allen's speed really made him work. Kemo is so powerful, its fun to watch. Hartwig played well, he seemed more natural and handled his assignmens fine.

Simmons missed a DT as he went for the wrong guy on a blitz, and as much as I like Colon, he really got beat by the speed on the outside. There could be a chance that Trai Essex gets a look at RT, heck....I would rather even see Starks for 1 more season after that first half by Willie.

Sorry man, I just don't agree about Hartwig and Smith. Both got beat like rented mules last night by the Vikes' DL. The offense actually moved the ball better with Mahan at C than Hartwig (yes, it was against 2nd stringers, but he was still more effective). Neither of their performances should give anyone confidence going into the regular season.

tony hipchest
08-24-2008, 02:32 PM
As for Hartwig, ugh. The guy did absolutely nothing tonight to deserve the starting job over Mahan, as much as many fans would love to see happen. The team actually moved the ball better with Mahan at C tonight, albeit against 2nd team guys. Let's face it, the OL has many more problems than just one guy at one position.theres alot of reading to do after missing a gameday around here so im not sure this has been mentionned but, even some of the best o-lines in the league are going to struggle against minnesotas fron 4. they are sick.

with that being said, i am ready to jump on the "o-line is the weakest link" bandwagon. not that im overly worried, im just ready to admit, there will be struggles, sacks, rb's stuffed at the line of scrimmage, etc. however i still think this line will be decent enough for the steelers to make a playoff run.

here is something steelerfans need to get used to and accept. for the longest time our o-line was one of the most veteran and highly paid units on our team (and in the league). no 1 guy was the highest paid but the wealth was always distributed pretty evenly amongst the 5.

now it is our skill position players who will be getting all the money (ben, ward, willie) and be the veteran unit of offense. just wait until holmes and heath get paid.

we are gonna see alot of draftpicks, developing back-ups, mahans, and hartwigs in the next 3-8 years 0n our starting unit. im ready to accept that. then its up to the coaches and strength trainers.

BlastFurnace
08-24-2008, 03:27 PM
Well, actually, no. :flap:

He is personally responsible for nearly giving me a heart attack at the tender age of 46 and making me endure the worst 4 minutes of my entire life.

Time heals all wounds.........:sofunny:

LOL...I know. He took 5 years off my life when he fumbled that ball. Had the Steelers lost that game, it would have replaced the 94 Championship Game as the most painful lost I have ever endured since I began watching the Steelers in 1975.

BlastFurnace
08-24-2008, 03:30 PM
I'll be honest. I haven't seen a tremendous improvement between Hartwig and Mahan...yet.

That may change in the regular season, but I haven't seen it.

The one on the Oline who is impressing me the most is Kemo.

Black@Gold Forever32
08-24-2008, 03:31 PM
Really if Ben called out the OL would it really improve their play.....lol I just face the facts they're not very good and Ben or God himself calling them out won't improve them....

As for Marvel Smith.....He did go against Jared Allen last night....Allen is one of the best rushers in the NFL...No shock that Allen has his way with Smith at times....

I have stated over and over again....Marvel Smith isn't an elite LT and never has been...He has been solid but not a franchise LT....He has to play LT since he is the Steelers best option at OT....He is much better suited at RT...

As for Hartwig.....He wasn't going against scrubs either....The Williams brothers are no slouches......Again no surprise that the Vikes DTs pushed Hartwig around at times...lol....Mahan wouldn't have faired any better......lol Mahan was pushed around by bum DTs/NTs last year at times...But I don't blame Mahan for the OL woes since the entire OL stinks....

One good thing the Steelers OL won't face the Vikes DL every week.....

All this talk about Smith and Hartwig....But Colon and Simmons are much bigger problems then Smith and Hartwig.....Colon is terrible at RT...He isn't an NFL OT....Edwards had his way with Colon last night....Colon offers nothing in pass protection....Simmons just needs to go....

Edman
08-24-2008, 03:43 PM
One good thing the Steelers OL won't face the Vikes DL every week.....

Yeah. But the Steelers will play the Ravens, Giants, Jaguars, Patriots, Colts, Titans and Chargers. Each and every one of these teams have big physical D-Lines that are quite capable of putting up multiple sacks against this offensive line.

PalmerSteel
08-24-2008, 03:48 PM
One good thing the Steelers OL won't face the Vikes DL every week.....

Yeah. But the Steelers will play the Ravens, Giants, Jaguars, Patriots, Colts, Titans and Chargers. Each and every one of these teams have big physical D-Lines that are quite capable of putting up multiple sacks against this offensive line.

only one i would even consider close to the vikes D was the giants but not now. OSI gone for the year! :helmet:

tony hipchest
08-24-2008, 03:58 PM
One good thing the Steelers OL won't face the Vikes DL every week.....

Yeah. But the Steelers will play the Ravens, Giants, Jaguars, Patriots, Colts, Titans and Chargers. Each and every one of these teams have big physical D-Lines that are quite capable of putting up multiple sacks against this offensive line.you know, thats why coaches do a little thing called gameplanning and in game/ halftime adjustments. you gash them with the run which is something the finesse patriots were unable to do against the giants in the superbowl. maybe if they woulda prepared to do so in-season instead of showboating and padding brady's stats, it wouldnt come back to bite them in the ass.

you sound a little scared edman. dont be skeered.

ben torched that ravens d-line to the tune of 5 td's in the 1st half!.

willie had no problem dropping 100 yds on the patriots or jaguars.

chargers and giants may both be w/o their most important defensive cogs for the whole year.

and the titans? im just not gonna sweat the titans. i cant. our defense may shut them out (or atleast hold them to just a ben troup td and a fg).

The Duke
08-24-2008, 04:01 PM
Colon is terrible at RT...He isn't an NFL OT....Edwards had his way with Colon last night....Colon offers nothing in pass protection....Simmons just needs to go....

and edwards is the worst player on that line

I was really expecting more from colon this year. after having a year under his belt I thought he could only improve. so far, nothing

and starks couldn't beat him out :dang:

ben's gonna need pain killers all season

Black@Gold Forever32
08-24-2008, 04:28 PM
One good thing the Steelers OL won't face the Vikes DL every week.....

Yeah. But the Steelers will play the Ravens, Giants, Jaguars, Patriots, Colts, Titans and Chargers. Each and every one of these teams have big physical D-Lines that are quite capable of putting up multiple sacks against this offensive line.

Ok....The Jags don't have Marcus Stroud any more....They gave up way to much to get Derrick Harvey and he still isn't signed....lol......Some of their other DEs are banged up...They did also draft Groves from Auburn.....But he is also a rookie...I don't think the Jags DL is as strong as in years past....

The G-Men lost Strahan to retirement and also lost one of the best DL for the season....Osi Umenyiora is out for the season......I think the G-Men won't be as strong along their DL this year....

Don't get me started with the Colts...Freeney is always hurt and their DTs are not that special.....

The Chargers lost Merriman....Yea he is an OLB....But he is their best pass rusher.....

Plus like Tony said the Steelers will game plan when the regular season starts.....This won't cure all the Steelers OL woes but it will help some...Don't get me wrong the OL stinks....But they stunk last year to and the Steelers still won 10 games...

Black@Gold Forever32
08-24-2008, 04:33 PM
and edwards is the worst player on that line

I was really expecting more from colon this year. after having a year under his belt I thought he could only improve. so far, nothing

and starks couldn't beat him out :dang:

ben's gonna need pain killers all season

Starks must be just flat out terrible and uninterested in practice to not even get a sniff to start in place of Willie Colon this pre-season....You would think with the 7 million he is getting this year and Colon's struggles he would get a look....

I have read by some that Starks is better at LT.....I don't know about that.....I'm not convinced by Starks brief play at LT last year when Smith out....But at this point I would be willing to try Starks at LT and then move Smith to RT which he is better suited for....Those switches couldn't be any worse....lol

I know those changes won't take place but I'm just venting on how bad the OL still looks....lol

lilyoder6
08-24-2008, 08:07 PM
i think that colon is strong enough to play rt, and he had some good plays last night,, it's just that he needs to have a lot more good plays thru out the whole game.. and between hartwig and mahan.. i have no clue who is gonna win..

tony hipchest
08-24-2008, 11:15 PM
And as I said in the Gameday thread, the second Ben does that, the fans and the media will be all over him, accusing him of passing the blame onto the OL. So what do should he do? Publicly criticize the OL and get blasted, or blame himself while protecting his OL...and get blasted? He's in a no-win situation.xt speaks the truth. a great qb like manning was absolutely trashed on this board after the 06 playoff loss for doing nothing more than speaking the obvious truth.

ben would be treated worse than a player openly talking about his contract if he were to ever "throw the o-line under the bus".

Preacher
08-25-2008, 12:34 AM
xt speaks the truth. a great qb like manning was absolutely trashed on this board after the 06 playoff loss for doing nothing more than speaking the obvious truth.

ben would be treated worse than a player openly talking about his contract if he were to ever "throw the o-line under the bus".

Absolutely.

it just kills me. Nothing is right.

paw-n-maul-u
08-25-2008, 12:37 AM
I read one of James Walkers blogs on the AFC north. He said it's pretty much guaranteed that Marvel Smith is not going to be a steeler next year. The steelers don't want to pump any more money into the offensive line because there is going to be a huge overhaul in 09' if the O-line woe's continue this year.

I sense a big FA splash next year on one of the lines. There almost has to be. We will have A LOT of extra cap room. granted there will be a few signings to make in-house.

But if anything, this offseason there have been some pretty quirky out of the ordinary things ... i.e.- like showing more interest in FA than normal. For some reason I just sense that this new campaign of tomlin and Co. might think a little more outside the box than cowher ever did.

There might be some big names next year in FA on both sides of the line. And ofcourse, there is always the draft (which seems to be a really good year for D-line and O-line as well)

And as far as peyton manning calling out the O-line ... I'm pretty sure they've gone out and traded up or taken an O-lineman in the first round the last couple years. As well as got J. Saturday resigned. So maybe speaking up did a little good. I surely didn't chastise manning for speaking his mind.

Ben, like Manning, is the most important player on this team. And as we've seen this offseason, Big Ben gets what Big Ben wants. I sure wouldnt mind him saying a little something a long the lines of the O-line needing to step their play up and that he challenges them to do so. ... we shall see after those first few sacks.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-25-2008, 07:37 AM
I'll be honest. I haven't seen a tremendous improvement between Hartwig and Mahan...yet.

That may change in the regular season, but I haven't seen it.

The one on the Oline who is impressing me the most is Kemo.

Actually, I re-watched the game on TiVo and Hartwig played well, while Mahan got pushed into the backfield often on run plays and on one pass play he completely missed his block and fell down. Mahan looks to be trying too hard and just gets pushed around more than Hartwig.

The center competition is over! You are right, Kemo is really impressive to watch.

The other interesting thing of note on the O line is that Essex played the 2nd half at RT and played well, while Starks took all the snaps at LT. I think if Colon faulters we may see Essex at RT.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-25-2008, 07:40 AM
A couple other guys that stood out after rewatching the game other than Mendenhall, were Orpheus Roye.....he just bulled an OG into the backfield on a pass play. He is gonna make the final roster.

Billy Latsko caught the ball well out of the backfield for a 1st down and made some really good blocks. I know Carey Davis will get the start because he fits BA's offense, but Latsko is the much better blocker of the 2 and catches the ball better than Kreider ever did.

Alva Lord
08-25-2008, 11:11 AM
A couple other guys that stood out after rewatching the game other than Mendenhall, were Orpheus Roye.....he just bulled an OG into the backfield on a pass play. He is gonna make the final roster.

Billy Latsko caught the ball well out of the backfield for a 1st down and made some really good blocks. I know Carey Davis will get the start because he fits BA's offense, but Latsko is the much better blocker of the 2 and catches the ball better than Kreider ever did.
Orpheus Roy may well allow the Steelers to cut Nick Eason. Eason is terrible even as a back up.

The Duke
08-25-2008, 03:19 PM
You are right, Kemo is really impressive to watch.

.

yeah he is :tt02:

know what's funny? throughout the offseason all we heard was how without faneca the o line will just be garbage. but the guy replacing him may actually be the best player on the line

sure, the o line may suck, but it will have nothing to do with faneca leaving

btw, kemoeatu vs kemoeatu this Thursday in the panthers game :tt:

tunes4life
08-25-2008, 03:48 PM
and leftwitch has a rocket for an arm still.

Maybe it's just me but Leftwitch also looks lighter on his feet and quicker than I remember him. Did he shed some extra weight while he was away from the game? He has impressed me so far. The only thing that worries me is that his "rocket arm" has caused some drops in the preseason so far. He doesn't always need to throw lasers, although I think the receivers will adjust. :thumbsup:

Texasteel
08-25-2008, 04:14 PM
Maybe it's just me but Leftwitch also looks lighter on his feet and quicker than I remember him. Did he shed some extra weight while he was away from the game? He has impressed me so far. The only thing that worries me is that his "rocket arm" has caused some drops in the preseason so far. He doesn't always need to throw lasers, although I think the receivers will adjust. :thumbsup:

I thought he looked thiner than I remembered as well.

HometownGal
08-25-2008, 04:30 PM
Maybe it's just me but Leftwitch also looks lighter on his feet and quicker than I remember him. Did he shed some extra weight while he was away from the game? He has impressed me so far. The only thing that worries me is that his "rocket arm" has caused some drops in the preseason so far. He doesn't always need to throw lasers, although I think the receivers will adjust. :thumbsup:

I heard on KDKA last week that when Leftwich reported to camp, he was about 22 lbs. lighter than he was with the Falcs. He's a big, strong guy with a lot of muscle and he looks better than I've ever seen him look. :thumbsup:

He most definitely does need to work on his touch as I said in another thread. I don't think a semi-automatic rifle could fire a bullet as fast and hard as Lefty fires that pigskin. :chuckle:

I am VERY pleased with Lefty's performance thus far! :applaudit:

43Hitman
08-25-2008, 04:38 PM
I heard on KDKA last week that when Leftwich reported to camp, he was about 22 lbs. lighter than he was with the Falcs. He's a big, strong guy with a lot of muscle and he looks better than I've ever seen him look. :thumbsup:

He most definitely does need to work on his touch as I said in another thread. I don't think a semi-automatic rifle could fire a bullet as fast and hard as Lefty fires that pigskin. :chuckle:

I am VERY pleased with Lefty's performance thus far! :applaudit:

I am also very impressed with his arm strength. Hopefully we won't have to see that arm very much this year if at all. But God forbid he does have to come in a game because of an injury, I am confident he can get the job done. The same way I felt when Batch had to come in.

Alva Lord
08-25-2008, 04:40 PM
Maybe it's just me but Leftwitch also looks lighter on his feet and quicker than I remember him. Did he shed some extra weight while he was away from the game? He has impressed me so far. The only thing that worries me is that his "rocket arm" has caused some drops in the preseason so far. He doesn't always need to throw lasers, although I think the receivers will adjust. :thumbsup:
It was reported that he lost thirty pounds working out while waiting for his phone to ring.

Alva Lord
08-25-2008, 04:43 PM
Nobody questions Leftwich's arm strength. It's his lack of touch that's the problem. He's been throwing the ball as hard on ten yard patterns as he does fifty yard bombs.

HometownGal
08-25-2008, 05:15 PM
But God forbid he does have to come in a game because of an injury, I am confident he can get the job done. The same way I felt when Batch had to come in.

We agree on all but the last sentence. :thumbsup: I felt OK when Charlie had to come in for a series or two or 1 game at most, but anything beyond that I wasn't overly comfortable with.

missedgehead
08-25-2008, 05:27 PM
only one i would even consider close to the vikes D was the giants but not now. OSI gone for the year! :helmet:

Is that why Ben came out of that Pats game last year with a shoulder injury so bad that he ALMOST could not play for the Jags the next week? The Pats may have an old defense, but they are no slouches. I think it was when Vince Wilfork (one of the best NTs in the league) coming right up the gut, running right over Mahan that was the play that hurt Ben's shoulder. Adalius Thomas practically body slammed Ben later in that game also.

Giants are hurt without Osi, but are still a formidable defense. Cowboys have a formidable defense also. Maybe not like the Vikes, but don't kid yourself. We are not going up against peewee league teams. Just saying.

missedgehead
08-25-2008, 05:36 PM
I heard on KDKA last week that when Leftwich reported to camp, he was about 22 lbs. lighter than he was with the Falcs. He's a big, strong guy with a lot of muscle and he looks better than I've ever seen him look. :thumbsup:

He most definitely does need to work on his touch as I said in another thread. I don't think a semi-automatic rifle could fire a bullet as fast and hard as Lefty fires that pigskin. :chuckle:

I am VERY pleased with Lefty's performance thus far! :applaudit:


Me too. I was very impressed with him also. :) Good job Byron! Now, here are my thoughts while I am at it: Ben is in a no win situation like some here have said. At times, it makes me NUTS that he praises that O line all the time. Then again, who knows what goes on behind closed doors in the locker room. I don't know and neither do we. All we can do is speculate. I would hope Ben would say something to the coaches. After all, he is the one being sacked and running for his life. If Ben pulled a Peyton Manning and throw his O line under the bus, then he would be vilified. So he can't win.

I think the O line needs to work out the kinks. I do not like Hartwig. Like some here said, he got beat several times. Just a mess. I never liked Simmons. This part of our offense is going to be our Achilles Heel for sure. Defense was very good. Mendenhall MUST learn to cure his fumblitis. He must do that. I agree with Fansince'76. Fumbling is inexcusable at this level of football. Special Teams was ok.

tony hipchest
08-25-2008, 05:54 PM
Is that why Ben came out of that Pats game last year with a shoulder injury so bad that he ALMOST could not play for the Jags the next week? The Pats may have an old defense, but they are no slouches. I think it was when Vince Wilfork (one of the best NTs in the league) coming right up the gut, running right over Mahan that was the play that hurt Ben's shoulder. Adalius Thomas practically body slammed Ben later in that game also.

Giants are hurt without Osi, but are still a formidable defense. Cowboys have a formidable defense also. Maybe not like the Vikes, but don't kid yourself. We are not going up against peewee league teams. Just saying.you'll have to pardon PalmerSteel for not needlessly slobbing the knob of the new england graytriots in a thread about the steelers and vikings.

shall we pay hommage to the patriots in every thread? sorry but i dont see them juiced up, overaged, cheaters as much of a defensive threat.

they have no secondary and willie parker carved them up pretty good last year and we will do much of the same this year.