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View Full Version : Anyone know what the F that formation was about?


Hapa
08-24-2008, 12:03 PM
That was seriously the most ridic thing I've ever seen when Ben went out as a wideout. What the heck were they thinking?

Does anyone know why they did that? I'm surprised it isn't even mentioned in an article somewhere.

Edman
08-24-2008, 12:05 PM
It's Bruce Arians getting cute and trying out his little goofy formations and plays again. Next to the O-Line, Bruce Arians is the biggest detriment to the Steelers Offense, not a help.

This proves to me that we'll see more QB sweeps on 3rd and 6.

stillers4me
08-24-2008, 12:14 PM
I assumed it was a formation for a trick play. Ben would have gunned it to another reciever for a TD. I can't remember who all was on the field for that one but I expect we'll see it again. If it had worked, everyone would have thought it was just peachy keen. :hunch:

fansince'76
08-24-2008, 12:48 PM
It's Bruce Arians getting cute and trying out his little goofy formations and plays again. Next to the O-Line, Bruce Arians is the biggest detriment to the Steelers Offense, not a help.

Yeah, it really sucked how Ben broke Bradshaw's franchise season record for TD passes last year, didn't it? Think that would have happened under Whiz and Cowher?

Alva Lord
08-24-2008, 12:55 PM
That was seriously the most ridic thing I've ever seen when Ben went out as a wideout. What the heck were they thinking?

Does anyone know why they did that? I'm surprised it isn't even mentioned in an article somewhere.
It was vintage Mike Mularkey. He of the gimmick play. I'm wondering why Ariens chose to go that route.

fansince'76
08-24-2008, 01:01 PM
Well, considering that the play got blown up both times that formation was used, I'd be surprised to see it in the regular season when they start playing for keeps. Nothing wrong with experimentation in the preseason as long as it doesn't get players injured.

Godfather
08-24-2008, 01:06 PM
Probably just something to get inside Houston's head and make them waste time preparing for it.

Good formation but silly to use it for a running play.

X-Terminator
08-24-2008, 01:21 PM
Didn't like the play at all, but as FS76 said, nothing wrong with experimenting in the pre-season.

Edman
08-24-2008, 02:39 PM
Yeah, it really sucked how Ben broke Bradshaw's franchise season record for TD passes last year, didn't it? Think that would have happened under Whiz and Cowher?

Eh, Not really. Okay, so Arians isn't as much as a detriment as I said.

To Arians' credit, he did help Ben take the next step. Too bad we don't have the O-Line to fit his type of offense.

fansince'76
08-24-2008, 02:43 PM
Eh, Not really. Okay, so Arians isn't as much as a detriment as I said.

To Arians' credit, he did help Ben take the next step. Too bad we don't have the O-Line to fit his type of offense.

Sorry, rereading it, I came off like an ass in my previous post. Apologies. :drink:

That being said, I hope we don't see that formation again in the regular season.

HometownGal
08-24-2008, 02:57 PM
I assumed it was a formation for a trick play. Ben would have gunned it to another reciever for a TD. I can't remember who all was on the field for that one but I expect we'll see it again. If it had worked, everyone would have thought it was just peachy keen. :hunch:

Ding ding ding - we have a winner! :thumbsup:

For God's sake you Arians bashers - it was ONE gimmick play. Probably worked in practice so he thought he'd run it in a preseason game to see how it all transpired. If we had a better OL, it may have worked.

Steelers fans - damned if you do, damned if you don't. :shake02:

tony hipchest
08-24-2008, 02:57 PM
4th and 2. ben and dixon on the same field. will anyone seriously cover ben split out wide? he was a former wr and recruited at ohio state to be TE.

it may be off base and rediculous to say this, but ben and dixon could be 2 of our top 20 most atheletically gifted players on the team.

it may be worth it to get them both on the field in some critical situations.

plus we dont have sepulveda back there no more for a sneak pass or run...

BlastFurnace
08-24-2008, 03:31 PM
I'm curious, isn't it within the rules for a CB to completely lay Ben out within the first 5 yards after the ball is hiked?

tony hipchest
08-24-2008, 03:40 PM
I'm curious, isn't it within the rules for a CB to completely lay Ben out within the first 5 yards after the ball is hiked?sure it is, but ben eats crown victorias for lunch. do you really think some pipsqueak pussified player like deion sanders is even capable of attempting to lay ben out?

he will crush any cb in the game. :tt03:

you gotta remember, ben is only about 20 lbs smaller than heath miller and have you ever seen a cb even jam him off the line?

OneForTheToe
08-24-2008, 03:56 PM
I think Tony has the point. Maybe in the regular season the snap goes to Dixon and he will make D's pay attention. On a play like that the key isn't that Ben is a threat. It is the hope that the D will be just discombobulated just enough to miss an assignment anywhere on the field.

Hapa
08-24-2008, 04:23 PM
I don't think they'd risk Ben's health by having him go out for a path.

And seriously, Ben is like 245 lbs, he could destroy a CB

Atlanta Dan
08-24-2008, 04:33 PM
Probably just something to get inside Houston's head and make them waste time preparing for it.

Good formation but silly to use it for a running play.

That's what the commentators said - running it twice makes Houston & the Browns really prepare for it

IMO all that formation does is let the D take a free shot at your QB when he blocks or goes out on a pattern

And like Arians saving plays for the regular season, i am saving my Arians bashing until then as well

tony hipchest
08-24-2008, 04:54 PM
IMO all that formation does is let the D take a free shot at your QB when he blocks or goes out on a pattern

in all honesty, ben is MUCH safer out wide vs a cb, than behind the 5steelers will send out there to form him a pocket to pass from. bens tough. im not too worried about a trick play or 2.

like i said, with sepulveda out, our 4th and 2 trick plays are sorta limited. i doubt ernester (or berger) will be doing any sneaks.

BlastFurnace
08-24-2008, 05:07 PM
I don't think they'd risk Ben's health by having him go out for a path.

And seriously, Ben is like 245 lbs, he could destroy a CB

I bet he couldn't. I don't care how big Ben is, Corners are quicker and they could get to him before he could react. Besides, not all corners are Wee Willie Williams. Some of them are big enough to flatten Ben if they wanted to.

I guarantee you, that if you lined up Rod Woodson at CB...in Woodson's prime...he would get the best of Ben if that scenerio were to come about.

Steelman16
08-24-2008, 05:10 PM
Ben probably wouldn't destroy a CB, but I don't Ben would get destroyed either.


It's all just mind games right now, IMO.

tony hipchest
08-24-2008, 05:12 PM
I bet he couldn't. I don't care how big Ben is, Corners are quicker and they could get to him before he could react. Besides, not all corners are Wee Willie Williams. Some of them are big enough to flatten Ben if they wanted to.

I guarantee you, that if you lined up Rod Woodson at CB...in Woodson's prime...he would get the best of Ben if that scenerio were to come about.
examples please? rod woodson was a once in a generation player and there is nobody at cb in todays game who comes close (especially w/in a 5 yard jam.

seriously, what cb are you worried about hitting ben? you did see that shot he took from bart scott didnt you?

forget betting.... i guarantee he could. i'll take a month long hiatus from this board if a cb knocks ben out of a game on a harmless trick play this season.

Steelman16
08-24-2008, 05:13 PM
betting.... i guarantee he could. i'll take a month long hiatus from this board if a cb knocks ben out of a game on a harmless trick play this season.

Tony, R U Serious?

:sofunny:

BlastFurnace
08-24-2008, 05:20 PM
examples please? rod woodson was a once in a generation player and there is nobody at cb in todays game who comes close (especially w/in a 5 yard jam.

seriously, what cb are you worried about hitting ben? you did see that shot he took from bart scott didnt you?

forget betting.... i guarantee he could. i'll take a month long hiatus from this board if a cb knocks ben out of a game on a harmless trick play this season.

What I can show you is cases that a defensive player took a shot at a QB and got the better of the matchup. It happens every single season. There are CB's that could take a cheap shot at Ben if given the opportunity. Watch the replays, Ben was jogging off the LOS, looking the other direction completely...and I don't want to hear that it was a preseason game...the point is, his focus wasn't what was in front of him.

All it's going to take is some knucklehead looking for his team to gain an advantage the rest of the game...such as a player like an Anthony Smith...who can light up someone when given the opportunity.

The Steelers should know our $102 Million Dollar investment is worth more than a 8 yard gain on a draw...that everyone knows is coming.

We all want the same thing...Ben standing and healthy at the end of the game. My point in my question was seeing if that was the case that a CB could do that if he wants to. Apparently, the answer is yes.

By the way, he wasn't the same the rest of the game after Scott hit him either.

tony hipchest
08-24-2008, 05:38 PM
Tony, R U Serious?

:sofunny:lol. as pathetic as it may be, i would go through some serious withdrawl not being able to talk steelers ball with all my sf cyberfriends. but i am that sure that no piss-ant cb in the league is a threat to ben if he lines up wide on a trick play.

however, i definitely cant discount a bill belichick led team and player intentionally taking a blatant cheap shot at his knee, in an attempt to take him out for the season.

tony hipchest
08-24-2008, 05:42 PM
What I can show you is cases that a defensive player took a shot at a QB and got the better of the matchup. It happens every single season. There are CB's that could take a cheap shot at Ben if given the opportunity. Watch the replays, Ben was jogging off the LOS, looking the other direction completely...and I don't want to hear that it was a preseason game...the point is, his focus wasn't what was in front of him.

All it's going to take is some knucklehead looking for his team to gain an advantage the rest of the game...such as a player like an Anthony Smith...who can light up someone when given the opportunity.

The Steelers should know our $102 Million Dollar investment is worth more than a 8 yard gain on a draw...that everyone knows is coming.

We all want the same thing...Ben standing and healthy at the end of the game. My point in my question was seeing if that was the case that a CB could do that if he wants to. Apparently, the answer is yes.

By the way, he wasn't the same the rest of the game after Scott hit him either.
no matter what the steelers do, "nervous nellies" will worry about the tiniest things.

i, myself, lie awake at night and worry about ben climbing in a motorcycle w/o a helmet. :rolleyes:

what if the steelers plane crashes on one of their 8 road games? perhaps they should be like madden and only travel by bus? :coffee:

anyways, y'all have fun worrying about a harmless, low risk, pre-season, trick play. :popcorn:

Atlanta Dan
08-24-2008, 05:43 PM
in all honesty, ben is MUCH safer out wide vs a cb, than behind the 5steelers will send out there to form him a pocket to pass from. bens tough. im not too worried about a trick play or 2.

.

The fact that our QB is safer running patterns or blocking than he is dropping back to pass probably is true:toofunny:

Of course the answer to that is fix the OL; splitting him wide as a fat target is a lot different than a direct snap gadget play while Ben is in the backfield and presumably can drift out on a pattern while hoping an assignment gets blown and he does not get covered

But it's all good - nobody got hurt and Arians got to show what a fertile offensive mind he has on a national broadcast of a preseason game

IMO we never see that formation again with Ben on the field

tony hipchest
08-24-2008, 06:03 PM
The fact that our QB is safer running patterns or blocking than he is dropping back to pass probably is true:toofunny:

:laughing:

in defense of the steelers, the gadget plays seem to work more often than they fail (and im talking from the onside kick in sb XXX to sepulveda tossing a long one to najeh in the 2nd to las game last season.

im with you that we probably never see ben split out wide more than once in a season (or blue moon). but im also willing to bet that if there is any qb capable of pulling it of on a regular basis, it would be ben.

that in itself is enough to make the opposing defenses pause and think....

19ward86
08-24-2008, 06:17 PM
I say we take Ben out of that play completely and put Heath Miller at QB (high school QB) and the guy who replaces Ben on the field would be Dixon as a reciever. That could feed into reverses, reverse passes, flee flickers, regular throw, run play. So many opportunities.

cubanstogie
08-24-2008, 07:22 PM
I have no problem with trick plays. The Steelers are known for a few trick plays in big games. Lets face it with our O-line we need on occasional trick play and misdirection. I would hope that was a set up for something later. Sending QB in motion and hiking to RB for a dive or sweep is hardly tricky. I can only hope there is more from that formation or they should abandon it. They are not fooling anyone on that crap unless something more up their sleeves at later time. I do think plays like that would work better with Dixon, Ben is certainly not a threat out at WR. I wouldn't be surprised to see Dixon get touches with trick plays.

tony hipchest
08-24-2008, 07:24 PM
I say we take Ben out of that play completely and put Heath Miller at QB (high school QB) and the guy who replaces Ben on the field would be Dixon as a reciever. That could feed into reverses, reverse passes, flee flickers, regular throw, run play. So many opportunities.nope.

not to be a dick, but that idea is totally lame. i dont care what position heath played as a kid, but what makes you think he has the speed, or playmaking ability of a dixon, kordell, el, parker, hines, or even wilson)?

heath is a tight end.

the whole idea of this concept is to put the ball in the hands of playmakers with the option of running or passing. with ben out there the defense thinks its a standard play and they send out their standard defense. best case scenario is you know your 10 (with ben as a decoy out wide) will beat their 11 on a gimmick play.

worst case scenario is you have a team waste a time out on 4th and 2 when they may be getting the ball back with 43 seconds to put together a game winning drive.

for those who dont know, tomlin is big on "situational football" and i love what he did with these plays plus constantly going for it on 4th and short.

he's coaching balls out and is showing he will do whatever it takes to win as opposed to playing not to lose.

Davison_K
08-24-2008, 07:26 PM
Ben shrugs off d-linemen and linebackers... i am really not worried about him getting hit by a corner... you wouldn't even be talking like this if the play had actually worked...

lilyoder6
08-24-2008, 07:57 PM
i think that a corner would be hurt by hurting ben b4 ben would get hurt by the corner.. ben is a big boy and corners aren't so big....

stlrtruck
08-25-2008, 12:42 PM
I think that play would be better if you had Dixon in the backfield or even Hines...someone who could throw the ball. Then that formation becomes a concern.

Preacher
08-25-2008, 05:16 PM
he's coaching balls out and is showing he will do whatever it takes to win as opposed to playing not to lose.


Tell you this much Tone... that IS refreshing to see from a coach in the black and gold!

missedgehead
08-25-2008, 05:47 PM
Hey, I am all for playing to WIN rather than playing not to lose......when you play not to lose, you usually do. However and I know they wanted the Texans to waste time practicing for a play they may do and all and that is why they did the play, but I am not a fan of Arians. Sorry. I just think he is predictable as all hell: diddle, diddle, let's go up the middle. Almost every third down I was like, "Are they gonna pass?" Sure enough, on just about every third down, they DID pass.

ShutDown24
08-25-2008, 06:28 PM
4th and 2. ben and dixon on the same field. will anyone seriously cover ben split out wide? he was a former wr and recruited at ohio state to be TE.

it may be off base and rediculous to say this, but ben and dixon could be 2 of our top 20 most atheletically gifted players on the team.

it may be worth it to get them both on the field in some critical situations.

plus we dont have sepulveda back there no more for a sneak pass or run...

I've thought of that myself, heck just put Ben and Dixon together in the backfield and the defense won't know what to do. Snap it back and forth a few times and have either pass it, hand off to Dixon a couple times, etc... For a drive and the other team may be so worried about that formation it would open everything else up.

Preacher
08-25-2008, 07:03 PM
Hey, I am all for playing to WIN rather than playing not to lose......when you play not to lose, you usually do. However and I know they wanted the Texans to waste time practicing for a play they may do and all and that is why they did the play, but I am not a fan of Arians. Sorry. I just think he is predictable as all hell: diddle, diddle, let's go up the middle. Almost every third down I was like, "Are they gonna pass?" Sure enough, on just about every third down, they DID pass.

Most third and 4, third 6 with our Line IS a passing situation.

The predictability went out the window on first and second though... unlike with Cowher.

The problem, and I will grant you this... is that they got real predictable on that last drive in the playoffs.

missedgehead
08-26-2008, 10:24 AM
True Preacher. :)

HughC
08-27-2008, 04:20 PM
The one thing I don't understand, is why run this play now, in preseason? The concept of running a trick play is to catch your opponent off guard. Now every other team has seen this play - and therefore won't be surprised with the formation. Perhaps there are multiple options to the play (if the defense lines up this way we run plan A, but if they line up this other way we run plan B), so opponents haven't seen the other outcome of this play, but I just don't see much of a positive to running a trick play in preseason. About the only benefit is perhaps forcing each opponent to spending some time game planning against trick plays, rather than plays that the Steelers will actually run, but the advantage gained would be very minimal in my opinion.

stlrtruck
08-27-2008, 04:47 PM
Yeah but every time they ran it the other night the snap went directly to FWP...now what happens when that snap goes to Ben in motion?
So much for the run up the middle and everyone has bit on it.

revefsreleets
08-27-2008, 05:12 PM
I can guarantee you this: That formation (and whatever may or may not become of it in the regular season) has been run past both Ben and Tomlin and approved, if not even embraced, by both. So all this second guessing and Arians hating is, as always, misplaced.

This is like trying to predict a chess match after 3 moves...it doesn't work that way.

Preacher
08-27-2008, 05:19 PM
I can guarantee you this: That formation (and whatever may or may not become of it in the regular season) has been run past both Ben and Tomlin and approved, if not even embraced, by both. So all this second guessing and Arians hating is, as always, misplaced.

This is like trying to predict a chess match after 3 moves...it doesn't work that way.

:rofl:


:bowdown: excellent post.