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GBMelBlount
08-29-2008, 10:47 AM
posted: 2 MINUTES AGOcomments: 4
filed under: Election News, John McCain

APA source tells CNN that Republican presidential hopeful John McCain has tapped Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to be his running mate. Palin, a first-term governor and self-styled "hockey mom,", is due to appear with McCain at a rally in Dayton, Ohio at noon..

http://news.aol.com/

Was just confirmed on a news broadcast as well.

Godfather
08-29-2008, 11:06 AM
AWESOME.

A lot of people already knew she carried a baby with Down's syndrome to term. Just found out from another board that her oldest son is serving in Iraq.

About time we get a politician who walks the walk.

fansince'76
08-29-2008, 11:10 AM
AWESOME.

A lot of people already knew she carried a baby with Down's syndrome to term. Just found out from another board that her oldest son is serving in Iraq.

About time we get a politician who walks the walk.

A good friend of mine who still lives in Alaska (I moved to Colorado from there in the mid-'90s) is very much sold on her and believes she's the best governor by far that Alaska's had since Jay Hammond. I trust his judgment.

stlrtruck
08-29-2008, 11:23 AM
Well let's see if she can take that mindset to DC and do some good things. I like the "hockey mom" comment.

tony hipchest
08-29-2008, 11:44 AM
holy cow! we are guaranteed to have either a black man or a woman in the white house.

i know absolutely nothing about palin and have got to learn more. isnt she less experienced than obama?

is she an eskimo? she doesnt worship walrus does she?

Steelman16
08-29-2008, 11:53 AM
holy cow! we are guaranteed to have either a black man or a woman in the white house.

i know absolutely nothing about palin and have got to learn more. isnt she less experienced than obama?

is she an eskimo? she doesnt worship walrus does she?

I don't think I'd mind this paticular woman in the office...she's a go-getter.

I think she's passed a bill. :chuckle:

And no, she's not an eskimo, but her hubby is. She's from Idaho.

It's an interesting choice for VP, but I kinda like it.

stlrtruck
08-29-2008, 11:54 AM
we are guaranteed to have either a black man or a woman in the white house.

What are you talking about, there's been a woman in the white house every year. Geez, some people are so oblivious :doh: :applaudit: :hatsoff:

Again, I have to petition for the sarcasm smiley - these others just don't cover it well eough.

MACH1
08-29-2008, 11:57 AM
A good friend of mine who still lives in Alaska (I moved to Colorado from there in the mid-'90s) is very much sold on her and believes she's the best governor by far that Alaska's had since Jay Hammond. I trust his judgment.

My friend that lives there also says shes not to hard on the eye's. LOL

stlrtruck
08-29-2008, 12:09 PM
presidential hopeful John McCain has tapped Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin

I'm not sure he should be doing that before the election!!! Bad presidential hopeful - at least Clinton waited until he was in office

Sorry I couldn't resist.

tony hipchest
08-29-2008, 12:12 PM
I'm not sure he should be doing that before the election!!! Bad presidential hopeful - at least Clinton waited until he was in office

Sorry I couldn't resist.:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny:

"tap dat... :moon: "


i cant believe i missed that. nice.

stlrtruck
08-29-2008, 12:16 PM
:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny:

"tap dat... :moon: "


i cant believe i missed that. nice.

What's sad Tony is that I thought of you when I first heard it run through my head...and when I didn't see you posting it, I had to jump all over it. :rofl: :drink: :tt03:

Dino 6 Rings
08-29-2008, 12:34 PM
She is a pro-life, hunter that also helped crush the Bridge to Nowhere legislation that was going to cost the taxpayers 400 million dollars.

She's very conservative, has been a mayor of a small town and won the Gov Election over an incumbent Dem and took out a 2 career Rep in the primaries.

She helped open up investigations of corruption all in the Gov of Alaska including throwing the Republican Senator that is now under investigation under the bus. She also had the knick-name of Sarah Barracuda when she played HighSchool Basketball.

For anyone that thinks Biden is going to chew her up in the 1 VP Debate, they are in for a shocking Surprise.

By the way, with this news now blowing up the internet...no one is talking about "the speech" anymore.

Brilliant. It helps bring in Colorado and Nevada with her pro-gun stance, solidifies Alaska and Helps with Montana as well. Nevermind the fact she's a woman, her ideology helps bring in key states.

millwalldavey
08-29-2008, 12:44 PM
Her being a woman is also a ploy to swing the female votes. Face it... there are a few of women who normally vote Republicrat who will switch to simply give her a vote.

Did McCain aslo love some hardlinbe Republicans as well?

Godfather
08-29-2008, 01:12 PM
Her being a woman is also a ploy to swing the female votes. Face it... there are a few of women who normally vote Republicrat who will switch to simply give her a vote.

Did McCain aslo love some hardlinbe Republicans as well?

Yep, she openly went after that in her speech. She referred to the 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling and said "We're not done yet...we can shatter it once and for all".

As a bonus her husband is a member of the steelworkers' union. That should help in PA and Ohio.

klick81
08-29-2008, 01:21 PM
LOL...token.

Atlanta Dan
08-29-2008, 01:41 PM
LOL...token.


No - only Democrats nominate candidates without decades of experience and/or due to race or gender

A bold gamble and the latest stunner in an amazing election campaign. Gov Palin may be eminently qualified (who knows? - unlike other posters on this board who apparently follow Alaska politics closely and are confident of the brilliance of the pick I do not profess to have a clue) but on its face this pick seems to be pretty gender driven, which the GOP Amen Corner would be screaming about if the Dems made it..

Here is a quick summary of pros and cons from Mike Murphy, who used to be a McCain consultant but currently is slumming as an online correspondent for Time.

They went for shock and awe. They got it, especially the shock. Now comes the awe. The question is will it be very good or very bad.

The Sarah Palin balance sheet. Pros; most impressive young conservative Governor is the country. The base will love her, grass-roots side of convention floor will be happy. She has charisma and can give a great speech. Middle class Mom with family. Obama now not only contender who can make a 3 point shot. She has been an impressive Governor, with reform instincts. She can certainly deliver the vital swing state of... Alaska. Former full Colonel in Pat Buchanan brigades.

Cons: McCain's mighty and oft-swung Obama swatting hammer of experience has been instantly changed from steel to rubber. VP examination stakes are a little higher for McCain, will she pass the ready on Day One test with less than two years in a (small) statehouse? Former full Colonel in the Pat Buchanan brigades.

Bottom line: A base choice. Which hints at a base-centered election strategy. Got it Boy, good thing it is 1994. What? It's not? Hmmm.

Exactly the sort of strategy I argue against in my column in the new issue of the magazine. But I've been wrong before.

She is an impressive person. Next week will be interesting.

http://time-blog.com/swampland/

Former Buchanan supporter?:chuckle:

Godfather
08-29-2008, 02:03 PM
Former Buchanan supporter?:chuckle:

Buchanan is a lot better than Bush.

Godfather
08-29-2008, 02:03 PM
most impressive young conservative Governor is the country.

Not quite...that would be Bobby Jindal of Louisiana.

Mosca
08-29-2008, 02:26 PM
I think it is a strategic mistake, one of many the Republican election machine has made this cycle. Not that I don't like the person; from what I've read, she is quite honorable. But she is even less qualified than Obama.

4 years on the Wasilla (pop 5470) city council

6 years as mayor of Anchorage (pop 283,000)

1 1/2 years as governor of Alaska (pop 683,000)

This is essentially your local politician. Look at the people on your city council, or the mayor of your city, and imagine that person as president or vice-president. Imagine Scranton mayor Chris Dougherty as potential presidential material. An honorable man, certainly. But not a president.

So all of a sudden, the one thing that McCain could have hammered Obama on is no longer an issue; it is now the same for both tickets.

If you were already decided for McCain, then you'll like her. But if you are undecided, she isn't going to help him win. It doesn't make me (undecided) more likely to vote for him, it makes me less so. McCain goes down, and she's the Prez? I don't think I'd be real confident with that.

But yeah, she is really beautiful.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Palin1.JPG/165px-Palin1.JPG

Atlanta Dan
08-29-2008, 02:32 PM
Not quite...that would be Bobby Jindal of Louisiana.

Not my view pro or con - just the columnist's

I link, you decide:chuckle:

Atlanta Dan
08-29-2008, 02:41 PM
I think it is a strategic mistake, one of many the Republican election machine has made this cycle. Not that I don't like the person; from what I've read, she is quite honorable. But she is even less qualified than Obama.

4 years on the Wasilla (pop 5470) city council

6 years as mayor of Anchorage (pop 283,000)

1 1/2 years as governor of Alaska (pop 683,000)

This is essentially your local politician. Look at the people on your city council, or the mayor of your city, and imagine that person as president or vice-president. Imagine Scranton mayor Chris Dougherty as potential presidential material. An honorable man, certainly. But not a president.

So all of a sudden, the one thing that McCain could have hammered Obama on is no longer an issue; it is now the same for both tickets.

If you were already decided for McCain, then you'll like her. But if you are undecided, she isn't going to help him win. It doesn't make me (undecided) more likely to vote for him, it makes me less so. McCain goes down, and she's the Prez? I don't think I'd be real confident with that.

But yeah, she is really beautiful.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Palin1.JPG/165px-Palin1.JPG

And not to mention daughters named after TV series characters Willow (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) and Piper (Charmed)

Stealth play for the crucial Wiccan vote?

tony hipchest
08-29-2008, 03:02 PM
She is a pro-life, hunter .

:chuckle: @ irony. is that like a catch and release fisherman?

you would think there will be major backlash from the republican party for the selection of somebody so inexperienced. especially now that it defuses all the (now empty) rhetoric about obama. but i expect she will be embraced as a youthful champion of hope.

i am still awaiting the debates but this could be the dealbreaker already. im a bit disappointed in the party and the campaign and find it extrememly hypocritical. almost a flip flop in the grandest fashion. i can understand a flip flop on a position or stance. but to totally flip flop on the typecast (experienced w/ military background) of person chosen to possibly be the future president????

if elected i will be praying for the long lasting good health of mccain, cause if they ran against her in the primaries he would blow her out of the water. it wouldnt even be close. probably 10X worse than richardson got blown away on the democratic ticket, and he has FAR more experience than being a small state gov for a year and a half.

wow. can you imagine if she did find her way into the captains seat and the 2012 had her going up against hilary clinton? what a trip.

but it is exciting to see this history in the making. "one big step for alaska... one GIANT leap for the united states. no matter what there will be either a black man or a woman in the white house.

how far we have come in 100 years. :thumbsup: wasnt too long ago neither could even vote.

oh yeah. and she is HOT.

tony hipchest
08-29-2008, 03:13 PM
And not to mention daughters named after TV series characters Willow (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) and Piper (Charmed)

Stealth play for the crucial Wiccan vote?

ouch :doh:

i wonder if she believes in paganism and witchcraft? that wont go over well with the conservative Christians. especially since obamas name alone had people acting like he named his children Anton and LaVey.

so what have we learned so far? she is a walrus worshipper/ tusk harvester, who clubs baby seals, and believes in in witchcraft and paganism. :smile:

Texasteel
08-29-2008, 03:44 PM
A bold gamble and the latest stunner in an amazing election campaign. Gov Palin may be eminently qualified (who knows? - unlike other posters on this board who apparently follow Alaska politics closely and are confident of the brilliance of the pick I do not profess to have a clue) but on its face this pick seems to be pretty gender driven, which the GOP Amen Corner would be screaming about if the Dems made it..
:

No she is an olive branch McCain is holding out to the far right. He was in danger of actually losing their votes, Palin will bring them back in line.
This will at least make this look like a conservative party again.
She was also my first choice, I'm glade he picked her.

fansince'76
08-29-2008, 03:44 PM
And not to mention daughters named after TV series characters Willow (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) and Piper (Charmed)

Stealth play for the crucial Wiccan vote?

Considering that one of her other kids is named "Bristol" after Bristol Bay, AK, I think the names were more influenced by Alaskan places/themes than TV characters. Willow (as in Willow, Alaska, or Willow Ptarmigan, the state bird) and Piper (as in Piper cub - bush planes are a vital mode of transportation up there due to a lack of roads).

Mosca
08-29-2008, 03:52 PM
Again; a strategic mistake. It takes the one thing that McCain had as his most powerful lure for undecided voters, Obama's inexperience, and it neutralizes it.

The Republican vice presidential candidate:

http://bp2.blogger.com/_uExTzMIDd1Y/R2O5nKq9_tI/AAAAAAAAATE/At2bb_K_3ao/s400/Sarah-Palin-Vogue.jpg

tony hipchest
08-29-2008, 04:13 PM
Again; a strategic mistake. It takes the one thing that McCain had as his most powerful lure for undecided voters, Obama's inexperience, and it neutralizes it.

The Republican vice presidential candidate:

http://bp2.blogger.com/_uExTzMIDd1Y/R2O5nKq9_tI/AAAAAAAAATE/At2bb_K_3ao/s400/Sarah-Palin-Vogue.jpg

:doh:

wow! she looks like an.... ummm..... "rockstar"????

dont vogue usually reserve its covers for the likes of paris hilton and britney spears? (i dont read the rag, but man does she have a nice set of.... principals)

Mosca
08-29-2008, 04:24 PM
It's a photochop.

tony hipchest
08-29-2008, 04:27 PM
It's a photochop.:dang:

:toofunny: - good one!

darn, i was almost looking forward to that eye candy. not quite like the queen of jordan, but still...

EDIT- ahhh.... after further review im thinking a chopped eva longoria.

Steelman16
08-29-2008, 04:28 PM
Tony's vote is now decided. :chuckle:

Edit: Maybe not! LOL

nice one Mosca! :toofunny:

She was on Vogue, though, wasn't she?

Hawk Believer
08-29-2008, 05:07 PM
I think it is a strategic mistake, one of many the Republican election machine has made this cycle. Not that I don't like the person; from what I've read, she is quite honorable. But she is even less qualified than Obama.

4 years on the Wasilla (pop 5470) city council

6 years as mayor of Anchorage (pop 283,000)

1 1/2 years as governor of Alaska (pop 683,000)

This is essentially your local politician. Look at the people on your city council, or the mayor of your city, and imagine that person as president or vice-president. Imagine Scranton mayor Chris Dougherty as potential presidential material. An honorable man, certainly. But not a president.

So all of a sudden, the one thing that McCain could have hammered Obama on is no longer an issue; it is now the same for both tickets.

If you were already decided for McCain, then you'll like her. But if you are undecided, she isn't going to help him win. It doesn't make me (undecided) more likely to vote for him, it makes me less so. McCain goes down, and she's the Prez? I don't think I'd be real confident with that.

But yeah, she is really beautiful.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Palin1.JPG/165px-Palin1.JPG

Not to be a total nitpick, but I am pretty sure she was never mayor of Anchorage. I think she went straight from being mayor of Wasilla to govenor of AK. Anyone know for sure?

GBMelBlount
08-29-2008, 05:19 PM
tony hipchest
you would think there will be major backlash from the republican party for the selection of somebody so inexperienced. especially now that it defuses all the (now empty) rhetoric about obama. but i expect she will be embraced as a youthful champion of hope.

An inexperienced VP is less of a concern to me than an inexperienced Pres. Chances are she would get some experience before ever being pres. Not the case if Obama wins. It will be funny if the dem's try to make a bid deal out of this....

steveironcity
08-29-2008, 05:19 PM
Not to be a total nitpick, but I am pretty sure she was never mayor of Anchorage. I think she went straight from being mayor of Wasilla to govenor of AK. Anyone know for sure?

Yeah, she did. From Mayor to Gov. Nice Pick for the Reublicans. The only thing the dems have so far is lack of experence, and its been said here already, its a tough card to play. Obama picks a 65 year old Texbook politician, and Mccain picks a 44 year old Mother of 5 who epitomises conservative. Mccain wins this one

Mosca
08-29-2008, 05:44 PM
You are right, Hawk Believer. I got my initial facts off Wiki, and the entry on her was poorly written. It has been edited and it is much more clear that she was mayor of Wasilla (pop 2700), then governor for 1 1/2 years. And no, that is not a nitpick; it is in fact very important. At least mayor of Anchorage is like mayor of Pittsburgh; it is a decent sized city.

Mosca
08-29-2008, 05:49 PM
Yeah, she did. From Mayor to Gov. Nice Pick for the Reublicans. The only thing the dems have so far is lack of experence, and its been said here already, its a tough card to play. Obama picks a 65 year old Texbook politician, and Mccain picks a 44 year old Mother of 5 who epitomises conservative. Mccain wins this one

For those who are already in McCain's camp, that may be so. But for the vast majority of undecideds, this is a troubling pick. There are a lot of local women politicians whom I admire, but none whom I would vote for for president. A year and a half as governor of a state with a population of 683,000? As the second in command for a 71 year old man who has had 4 bouts with cancer?

There were many better choices. As an undecided, I question McCain's judgment on this one. For a second in command, I'll trust a textbook politician to hold the reins until the next election over a conservative mother of five, thank you.

revefsreleets
08-29-2008, 05:52 PM
I have only one thing to say, and be prepared, because it's quite profound:


MILF!

OneForTheToe
08-29-2008, 06:07 PM
I have only one thing to say, and be prepared, because it's quite profound:


MILF!

Mother I would Like to Facilitate for Vice President of USA? :whistle::wink02::wave:

steveironcity
08-29-2008, 06:07 PM
For those who are already in McCain's camp, that may be so. But for the vast majority of undecideds, this is a troubling pick. There are a lot of local women politicians whom I admire, but none whom I would vote for for president. A year and a half as governor of a state with a population of 683,000? As the second in command for a 71 year old man who has had 4 bouts with cancer?

There were many better choices. As an undecided, I question McCain's judgment on this one. For a second in command, I'll trust a textbook politician to hold the reins until the next election over a conservative mother of five, thank you.

And Deleware has not many people more than Alaska. SO that point is kind moot. She has run a city , and state govenment. Something that Obama, Biden, and even Mccain have never done. Notice at first the Dems tried to attack her as inexperenced, but a few hours later, the changed there stance. From Totally Inexperenced, to Inexperenced on Foregn Affairs. If they want a debate on experence, i say that the Mccain camp should tell them to bring it.

Hawk Believer
08-29-2008, 06:17 PM
Seems like this choice does negate the whole experience argument. If the republicans continue to argue that Obama isn't experienced enough, it calls McCain's judgement to question since she will be "just one heartbeat away from the presidency."

I think they are thinking they can snipe a few of the Hillary voters, but in the end I think hardcore Hillary supporters will feel patronized by people who expect them to vote Republican just because the veep is a woman.

Should be interesting to see is groups like NOW are going to be quick to pull the sexism card in defense of Palin as she is vetted by the media in the upcoming months. My guess is no...

Mosca
08-29-2008, 06:18 PM
And Deleware has not many people more than Alaska. SO that point is kind moot. She has run a city , and state govenment. Something that Obama, Biden, and even Mccain have never done. Notice at first the Dems tried to attack her as inexperenced, but a few hours later, the changed there stance. From Totally Inexperenced, to Inexperenced on Foregn Affairs. If they want a debate on experence, i say that the Mccain camp should tell them to bring it.

I guess we'll see, then. But I'm not sure that Wasilla (pop 2700) qualifies as a city in most places... it is about 1/3rd the size of... oh, Pleasant Hills. Or, 1/8th as big as Baldwin. Or, 1/6 the size of Scott Twp. How about Eileen Meyers as VP candidate? I didn't think so.

I'm not trying to attack her; I'm trying to analyze it as part of an election strategy, and I don't see how this helps the Republicans. It neutralizes their strongest argument that they had against their opponent, and that doesn't make sense. For anyone who has already decided, it won't change their minds; it won't make Obama's minions go over to McCain, and it won't drive McCain supporters away. But for the undecideds, it certainly won't make any points, at least on the face of it. Sure, Delaware is small, but Biden has been in the Senate for a long time, and has the connections in place. He might not have helped Obama, but he didn't drive away any undecideds, either. In general, the undecideds didn't react with, "Biden? Huh?"

But of course, what's done is done, and we'll see how it plays out.

Hawk Believer
08-29-2008, 06:20 PM
And Deleware has not many people more than Alaska. SO that point is kind moot. She has run a city , and state govenment. Something that Obama, Biden, and even Mccain have never done. Notice at first the Dems tried to attack her as inexperenced, but a few hours later, the changed there stance. From Totally Inexperenced, to Inexperenced on Foregn Affairs. If they want a debate on experence, i say that the Mccain camp should tell them to bring it.

Its interesting to note that we will have the first President since JFK who has not held an executive office. The conventional wisdom was that America didn't elect Senators to be president. Guess that maxim is out the window this time around.

OneForTheToe
08-29-2008, 06:37 PM
Some Pics

Salad days :

http://images.politico.com/global/palin%20as%20queen.bmp

Going fishing:

http://images.politico.com/global/palin%20on%20boat.bmp

Note dirty gloves

HometownGal
08-29-2008, 06:54 PM
holy cow! we are guaranteed to have either a black man or a woman in the white house.

i know absolutely nothing about palin and have got to learn more. isnt she less experienced than obama?

is she an eskimo? she doesnt worship walrus does she?

Thus far, no taped interview of Palin dissing J-Mac. :chuckle:

steveironcity
08-29-2008, 07:00 PM
We know she is proud of her county, her eldest son has been in the Army for nearly a year. A contrast to Michelle Obama, who only became proud of our country when it was apparent Barak was the Nominee. And i wonder if she is a member of a church whose pastor spews racist venom at evey turn. Or if she is friends with unrepentent marxist terrorists.....

Hawk Believer
08-29-2008, 07:08 PM
The kids in the military angle of this electin is interesting too. No matter what, a Veep's kid will be in Iraq next year. Seems like that will put a big target on their respective unit.

Hammer67
08-29-2008, 07:18 PM
An inexperienced VP is less of a concern to me than an inexperienced Pres. Chances are she would get some experience before ever being pres. Not the case if Obama wins. It will be funny if the dem's try to make a bid deal out of this....


I know...it's already happening. "Hey! She's less experienced then Obama!!"

Um...yeah, and she's going to hold the least powerful position in government...thanks. :doh:

steveironcity
08-29-2008, 07:21 PM
Comedy from ELRushbo

RUSH: I want to go over this experience business another way. To say that the libs are saying that Sarah Palin doesn't have any experience. Neither does Obama. I want to illustrate that. Let's say that Obama and Sarah Palin got together. What are some of the questions that Sarah Palin would have for Senator Obama? I can't think of anything he could teach her. What, however, could she teach him? So, Senator Obama's first question would be: Can you show me the proper and safe way to handle and fire a gun? And are all NRA members as pretty as you are? Second question, Obama to Sarah Palin: Is hunting scary? And when you go fishing, do you bait your own hooks? I mean you could cut your finger doing that. Do you do it yourself? Next question, Obama to Sarah Palin: When you found out your baby would be born with Down syndrome, did you consider killing it before or after the due date? You mean you had the baby? You really had the baby? Question number four: What's it like to be a governor, Mrs. Palin? Do you worry that you're going to be held responsible for your decisions?

Question number five, Obama to Sarah Palin: Did you believe all that garbage that we've said about women at the Democrat convention? Are you worried that breaking the glass ceiling will just make a big mess? Question number six, from Obama to Sarah Palin: Is it fun or scary to ride a snowmobile? Don't you get cold? Question number seven, Obama to Sarah Palin: Is it scary to live so close to the Russians? Question number eight, Obama to Sarah Palin: Your son's in the army. Did you teach him how to shoot guns? Question number nine, Obama to Sarah Palin: Since you're a former sports broadcaster, if I bet on a football game, can I call you for advice? Question number ten, Obama to Sarah Palin: Come on, tell me the truth. Can we really drill for oil and not destroy the planet? Algore says we're destroying the planet, but your husband works in that business. Can we really drill for oil and not destroy the planet? Well, I don't know what Sarah Palin would ask Obama. She wouldn't want a sweetheart mortgage. That's the thing. Mr. Obama, could you tell me how to get a sweetheart mortgage or maybe get some crook friend to sell me, you know, a little strip of his land before market value? She wouldn't ask that question. Obama did. She might reference it in a debate if it comes up.

Hammer67
08-29-2008, 07:23 PM
I guess we'll see, then. But I'm not sure that Wasilla (pop 2700) qualifies as a city in most places... it is about 1/3rd the size of... oh, Pleasant Hills. Or, 1/8th as big as Baldwin. Or, 1/6 the size of Scott Twp. How about Eileen Meyers as VP candidate? I didn't think so.

I'm not trying to attack her; I'm trying to analyze it as part of an election strategy, and I don't see how this helps the Republicans. It neutralizes their strongest argument that they had against their opponent, and that doesn't make sense. For anyone who has already decided, it won't change their minds; it won't make Obama's minions go over to McCain, and it won't drive McCain supporters away. But for the undecideds, it certainly won't make any points, at least on the face of it. Sure, Delaware is small, but Biden has been in the Senate for a long time, and has the connections in place. He might not have helped Obama, but he didn't drive away any undecideds, either. In general, the undecideds didn't react with, "Biden? Huh?"

But of course, what's done is done, and we'll see how it plays out.


Well, for a campaign based on change, Biden is one of the worst picks Obama could have made. He was tapped because he was a a white male and a Catholic, IMO.

Was the GOP VP candidate picked because she is a younger woman??? Sure. But if you read about her accomplishments so far, I like her attitude. Stands up to corruption, even within her own party and fights big oil.

Mosca
08-29-2008, 07:46 PM
I'm not attacking her; and I understand that everyone who is already for McCain will like this choice. What I'm saying is that it is a poor choice to sway the undecided voters who will decide this election. It is not a good choice as part of a strategy to win.

Attacking her, defending her, attacking Biden, defending Biden, all of that is irrelevant right now. The undecideds will make up their mind some time at the end of October, and the Republicans' most effective tool was hammering on Obama's inexperience... and now they can't use that tool effectively. They have handed its counter -weapon to their enemy. And that was a bad strategic move.

Maybe they have a different tool. But this campaign has been a strange reversal. The Democrats seem to be on their game, and the Republican machine that won so effectively in '00 and '08 seems to be slightly off. If they can convince me, I'll pull the "R" lever and not look back; they got me in '00. But this wasn't how to start. I wouldn't vote for Mary Ann Petrilla, the Luzerne County Commissioner, for VP, no matter how much integrity she has (and she has a lot; she is a very impressive woman at fighting corruption in government). She would be out of her league on the national level. As would most local politicians.

steveironcity
08-29-2008, 08:00 PM
True dat.... The Dems are on their game. Trying to ignite class warfare, trying to scare the elderly.. taking union members for granted while doing nothing for them. Yeah ill say they are on it as usual. Just remember HOPE!!! CHANGE!!!!!!

X-Terminator
08-29-2008, 08:00 PM
I'm not attacking her; and I understand that everyone who is already for McCain will like this choice. What I'm saying is that it is a poor choice to sway the undecided voters who will decide this election. It is not a good choice as part of a strategy to win.

Attacking her, defending her, attacking Biden, defending Biden, all of that is irrelevant right now. The undecideds will make up their mind some time at the end of October, and the Republicans' most effective tool was hammering on Obama's inexperience... and now they can't use that tool effectively. They have handed its counter -weapon to their enemy. And that was a bad strategic move.

Maybe they have a different tool. But this campaign has been a strange reversal. The Democrats seem to be on their game, and the Republican machine that won so effectively in '00 and '08 seems to be slightly off. If they can convince me, I'll pull the "R" lever and not look back; they got me in '00. But this wasn't how to start. I wouldn't vote for Mary Ann Petrilla, the Luzerne County Commissioner, for VP, no matter how much integrity she has (and she has a lot; she is a very impressive woman at fighting corruption in government). She would be out of her league on the national level. As would most local politicians.

Being the governor is a bit more than a "local politician." It doesn't matter how small Alaska is, she still ran the entire state, dealt with all of the issues that come with running a state and was held responsible by the citizens of that state. To me, that's a bit of a slap in the face not only to her, but to Alaskans, because it's saying that they don't matter because they only have 683,000 people. Last I checked, the Prez and VP were supposed to represent everyone, not just the big states with the most votes.

Mosca
08-29-2008, 08:02 PM
True dat.... The Dems are on their game. Trying to ignite class warfare, trying to scare the elderly.. taking union memeber for granted while doing nothing for them. Yeah ill say they are on it as usual.

It is the exact same strategy that won for the Republicans in '88 (remember Willie Horton), in '00, and in '04. It was initially conceived by Republican strategist Lee Atwater, and perfected by his protege Karl Rove. I make no judgment on whether it is fair, or ethical, or anything. It works. And the Republicans are usually really good at it.

revefsreleets
08-29-2008, 08:03 PM
Correction: The VP job has juice now, and will forevermore. Thank Cheney for that...so there is merit to discussing the experience factor of #2.

But this is what i take away from all this...there is this CONSTANT undercurrent in debates amongst the more politically savvy about how we'd like to see a return to more earthy type politicians, the type of politicians the founding fathers had in mind, real representatives of the people.

Tell me Palin doesn't fit that bill...

steveironcity
08-29-2008, 08:04 PM
Correction: The VP job has juice now, and will forevermore. Thank Cheney for that...so there is merit to discussing the experience factor of #2.

But this is what i take away from all this...there is this CONSTANT undercurrent in debates amongst the more politically savvy about how we'd like to see a return to more earthy type politicians, the type of politicians the founding fathers had in mind, real representatives of the people.

Tell me Palin doesn't fit that bill...

HOPE!!!!!!!!!!! CHANGE!!!!! oh....... sorry, temporary brainwashing. You mean there is something else to an election than hope and change?

Mosca
08-29-2008, 08:05 PM
Being the governor is a bit more than a "local politician." It doesn't matter how small Alaska is, she still ran the entire state, dealt with all of the issues that come with running a state and was held responsible by the citizens of that state. To me, that's a bit of a slap in the face not only to her, but to Alaskans, because it's saying that they don't matter because they only have 683,000 people. Last I checked, the Prez and VP were supposed to represent everyone, not just the big states with the most votes.

Alaska, population 683,000, about the same size as Pittsburgh in its prime, is generally agreed to be the easiest state to run due its vast tundra.

But again, you are missing my point. I'm not attacking her, I'm analyzing her effect on the ticket and how it weighs on that ticket's chance of success. If it offends you, I can't help that.

steveironcity
08-29-2008, 08:09 PM
Alaska, population 683,000, about the same size as Pittsburgh in its prime, is generally agreed to be the easiest state to run due its vast tundra.

But again, you are missing my point. I'm not attacking her, I'm analyzing her effect on the ticket and how it weighs on that ticket's chance of success. If it offends you, I can't help that.

I lived in alaska. I was in the army, and i was stationed at fort wainwright for nearly 3 years. Alaska is one of the most diverse states, and it the the largest state. Im sure Deleware is such a hard state

To quote Wayne :laughing:

Deleware..... Im in Deleware

tony hipchest
08-29-2008, 08:13 PM
I lived in alaska. I was in the army, and i was stationed at fort wainwright for nearly 3 years. Alaska is one of the most diverse states, and it the the largest state. Im sure Deleware is such a hard state

To quote Wayne :laughing:

Deleware..... Im in Delewarea mccain advisor on CNN just called her the commander in chief of the alaskan national guard and has a son going to iraq as support that she is equipped in foreign policy. as someone who served up there do you feel this holds water when we are fighting 2 wars?

steveironcity
08-29-2008, 08:18 PM
a mccain advisor on CNN just called her the commander in chief of the alaskan national guard and has a son going to iraq as support that she is equipped in foreign policy. as someone who served up there do you feel this holds water when we are fighting 2 wars?

Tony. I was stationed there before she was gov. I was there from early 2001- late 2003. But the Governer of a state is the commander of the Guard, and I know her son is a soldier. Do I think she is A foregin policy expert? No. Is Obama? No. Whatever happened to a normal person running for office? I guess americans do want to bow down to lifetime politicans aka hustlers.

tony hipchest
08-29-2008, 08:31 PM
Well, Tony. I was stationed there before she was gov. I was there from early 2001- late 2003. But the Governer of a state is the commander of the Guard, and I know her son is a soldier. Do I think she is A foregin policy expert? No. Is Obama? No. Whatever happened to a normal person running for office? I guess americans do want to bow down to lifetime politicans aka hustlers.what im asking (cause i really dont know) is like in NM sometimes the guard has to be called for boarder protection. In CA they had to be called up for the rodney king riots. in LA for katrina relief.

since the guard and army are loosly related as far as potential military service goes i was just wondering how much the guard is actually used up there? i mean im sure they responded to exxon valdez but does that mean if theres an oil spill in the persian gulf she is ready to deploy troops to go was ducks with dish soap?

again, by no means am i trying to demean your service. my dad was stationed at the tip of the alutians, spying on the russians w/ sattelites.

steveironcity
08-29-2008, 08:37 PM
what im asking (cause i really dont know) is like in NM sometimes the guard has to be called for boarder protection. In CA they had to be called up for the rodney king riots. in LA for katrina relief.

since the guard and army are loosly related as far as potential military service goes i was just wondering how much the guard is actually used up there? i mean im sure they responded to exxon valdez but does that mean if theres an oil spill in the persian gulf she is ready to deploy troops to go was ducks with dish soap?

again, by no means am i trying to demean your service. my dad was stationed at the tip of the alutians, spying on the russians w/ sattelites.

The National Guard is as much as a force as the regular army is. The Commander commands. When was the last time the comander in chief led troops into battle? thats right The whiskey rebellion in 1792 in Western PA!!!!

Mosca
08-29-2008, 09:04 PM
I lived in alaska. I was in the army, and i was stationed at fort wainwright for nearly 3 years. Alaska is one of the most diverse states, and it the the largest state. Im sure Deleware is such a hard state

To quote Wayne :laughing:

Deleware..... Im in Deleware

Laugh as you will. I like the lady, I like what she stands for, and I think she seals the defeat of McCain. I am not for Obama, and not for McCain. I'm undecided, and this choice doesn't pull me toward the Republicans. It makes me question McCain's ability to read strategic situations and act sensibly.

If you're already for the guy, you see how she makes your reason to choose him even stronger; but you still only get one vote Because you feel stronger about it doesn't make it count more.

Obama's strategy right now, including his choice of Biden, his travel to Europe, his entire campaign since he locked up the nomination, has been to shore up the valid accusation of inexperience. McCain just played right into his hand. Bad move for a guy who wants to be president.

Atlanta Dan
08-29-2008, 09:06 PM
Considering that one of her other kids is named "Bristol" after Bristol Bay, AK, I think the names were more influenced by Alaskan places/themes than TV characters. Willow (as in Willow, Alaska, or Willow Ptarmigan, the state bird) and Piper (as in Piper cub - bush planes are a vital mode of transportation up there due to a lack of roads).

Well maybe that's the cover story:sofunny:

Has Gov Palin denied she is a Wiccan?

revefsreleets
08-29-2008, 09:08 PM
I'm anxious to hear what Maureen Dowd has to say (and you KNOW Dowd will have something to say). Then I'll just take the exact opposite position and that will be my definitive stance on Palin.

By the way, Mosc, there is NO bigger McCain guy on this board (I wanted him v Bush in '04) and I am not convinced just yet that this was the wisest move for him. Just because I'd be happy to give our GOP Veep candidate a hard spanking doesn't mean I'm on board.

But I will, as always, do my due diligence.

Mosca
08-29-2008, 09:18 PM
Rev, I've voted for Nixon in '72, for Reagan in '84, Bush in '88, and Bush in '00. I consider my vote to be unpromised to ANY political party, regardless of how I am registered. I vote for the guy I consider to be the best qualified, and I take into account who is advising him as much as anything else, and how much he pays attention to them.

This choice troubles me. This was NOT the time to go all maverick.

revefsreleets
08-29-2008, 09:32 PM
It's a rapidly changing political landscape. McCain REALLY always was a bit of a rogue, and I may end up liking it just because it's a big FU to the status quo and the road the GOP has been heading down...

I need time to digest this. If you haven't been reading I'm doing some major re-evaluating of some of my own positions concerning the GOP. Romney got me started, but Bush has plenty of bad habits as well...reactionary right wing religious elements scare me more than Hitler.

This may be a swing of the pendulum in the party a little back from that...we shall see. Christ, all I want is a little more moderate view from my party on social issues. Is that too much to ask? And a little more fiscal responsibility, of course!

Texasteel
08-29-2008, 09:34 PM
Alaska, population 683,000, about the same size as Pittsburgh in its prime, is generally agreed to be the easiest state to run due its vast tundra.

But again, you are missing my point. I'm not attacking her, I'm analyzing her effect on the ticket and how it weighs on that ticket's chance of success. If it offends you, I can't help that.

I understand what you are saying, but I believe you are the one missing the point.
What this does is solidify the Republican base, a base that could have easily fractured with the choices that most of you would have tagged a good choice.
By the way the upcoming debates are going to be very interesting. This girl is a bit of a shark.

Mosca
08-29-2008, 09:41 PM
It's a rapidly changing political landscape. McCain REALLY always was a bit of a rogue, and I may end up liking it just because it's a big FU to the status quo and the road the GOP has been heading down...

I need time to digest this. If you haven't been reading I'm doing some major re-evaluating of some of my own positions concerning the GOP. Romney got me started, but Bush has plenty of bad habits as well...reactionary right wing religious elements scare me more than Hitler.

This may be a swing of the pendulum in the party a little back from that...we shall see. Christ, all I want is a little more moderate view from my party on social issues. Is that too much to ask? And a little more fiscal responsibility, of course!

I'd vote for REAL Republicans. I LIKE real Republicans. I'd vote for Reagan's Republicans.Reagan had his faults, but he was human. The guys who were just in power, they were power-grabbers. If they could have figured out how to engineer a takeover of the country, they would have done so. I firmly believe that.

I'm Democrat because I've seen what unfettered authority can do. The working folks have to have some power too, they have to have a voice and they have to have some say in things. It's that voice that keeps the capitalists from installing MONEY as the god. It keeps capitalism human, it keeps it working for all of us. But make no mistake about it, I LOVE capitalism. I make my living on it.

TroysBadDawg
08-29-2008, 09:45 PM
Well it came across the television while we were at the pizza place, they (the Dems incharge) decided to charge her with ethics violations and are going to hold committee meetings on it. Funny this happened the day after her nomination.

Ethics and Democrats do not work in the same sentence lately.
Unfortunately I still remember the great words "I never had sex with that woman!" Right! OR with Hillary and the missing phone pages that turned up on her night stand with only her finger prints on them. Ethics? I can go on but will stop here.

revefsreleets
08-29-2008, 09:51 PM
I'd vote for REAL Republicans. I LIKE real Republicans. I'd vote for Reagan's Republicans.Reagan had his faults, but he was human. The guys who were just in power, they were power-grabbers. If they could have figured out how to engineer a takeover of the country, they would have done so. I firmly believe that.

I'm Democrat because I've seen what unfettered authority can do. The working folks have to have some power too, they have to have a voice and they have to have some say in things. It's that voice that keeps the capitalists from installing MONEY as the god. It keeps capitalism human, it keeps it working for all of us. But make no mistake about it, I LOVE capitalism. I make my living on it.

IMO McCain IS a real Republican. But that's just me. As I said, he was my candidate of choice for years. I hate his social stance on abortion and a few other things, but I was always able to see the forest through the trees. I took a public policy class taught by John Seiberling in college, and if you ever want to learn about how things REALLY work in Washington politics, there is no better roadmap than that man. He made "deals with the devil" to get his aims achieved. But what he achieved was monumental. I see the same kind of ability to reach a hand across the aisle with McCain, and always have.

Mosca
08-29-2008, 09:52 PM
Ethics and Democrats do not work in the same sentence lately.


LOL, ethics and ANYONE in politics don't go well together; currently most scandals are REPUBLICAN, but that only means that it will be the Democrats' turn soon.

That being said, I think that going after Palin on ethics is a big mistake. I don't think her integrity is an issue here. I think her integrity is probably impeccable.

Texasteel
08-29-2008, 09:58 PM
I'm Democrat because I've seen what unfettered authority can do. The working folks have to have some power too, they have to have a voice and they have to have some say in things. It's that voice that keeps the capitalists from installing MONEY as the god. It keeps capitalism human, it keeps it working for all of us. But make no mistake about it, I LOVE capitalism. I make my living on it.

I'm one of the working people, worked in construction for 40 year, minise my time in the service. I reject you idea that Democrat = freedom for the little people. In fact there are many of us, working people, that refuse to be bullied it the idea that the Democratic party is our savior. Yes I said bullied, have you ever been to a union meeting.
You will have a hard time making a living off of capitalism after it is taxed to death.

Atlanta Dan
08-29-2008, 10:11 PM
In addition to naming her daughters after TV witches Gov Palin hates polar bears!:sofunny:

State will sue over polar bear listing, Palin says

The State of Alaska will sue to challenge the recent listing of polar bears as a threatened species, Gov. Sarah Palin said

http://www.adn.com/polarbears/story/413710.html

I also have heard she was sworn into office with a Wiccan Bible

Godfather
08-29-2008, 11:13 PM
LOL, ethics and ANYONE in politics don't go well together; currently most scandals are REPUBLICAN, but that only means that it will be the Democrats' turn soon.

That being said, I think that going after Palin on ethics is a big mistake. I don't think her integrity is an issue here. I think her integrity is probably impeccable.

Agree...Alaska has a sleazy, corrupt GOP machine and she butted heads with it. That reinforces J-Mac's reputation for putting principle over party and bucking the establishment.

Texasteel
08-29-2008, 11:20 PM
I also have heard she was sworn into office with a Wiccan Bible

And I've heard that Obama is a flag burning Muslim. Funny how these rumors get started.

Atlanta Dan
08-29-2008, 11:50 PM
And I've heard that Obama is a flag burning Muslim. Funny how these rumors get started.

They start by people making shit up and candidates having to respond to this sort of garbage - I say it as a joke and assume you do too - however, there are posters on this board who seriously believed the "Obama was sworn in a Koran" nonsense

We know very little about this candidate right now so rumors can fill in the blanks - we are about to find out a lot more

This may be a masterstroke, but it is one hell of a gamble - even if it works out this sort of management style can eventually lead to driving into the ditch

tony hipchest
08-30-2008, 12:47 AM
In addition to naming her daughters after TV witches Gov Palin hates polar bears!:sofunny:

State will sue over polar bear listing, Palin says

The State of Alaska will sue to challenge the recent listing of polar bears as a threatened species, Gov. Sarah Palin said

http://www.adn.com/polarbears/story/413710.html

I also have heard she was sworn into office with a Wiccan Biblehates polar bears???? :jawdrop: so did that despicable pat* homer LITP! (check the poll. he was one of the 2 who wanted to kill a poor cub and eat it! :jawdrop:)

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=15880

:hunch: if an uber lib brit pat homer can be a mod on a steelers fanboard i guess anything is possible (such as a wiccan, seal clubbing, walrus worshipping, female, who hates polar bears, being "one heartbeat away" from the presidency of the united states).

sorry, but just check my sig. :mg: those cute polar bears are a soft spot for me. this is definitely a dealbreaker and my vote WILL be cast for obama.

palin = LITP :chuckle:

tony hipchest
08-30-2008, 01:06 AM
- even if it works out this sort of management style can eventually lead to driving into the ditch...or over a bridge with a female passenger inside the vehicle?

Preacher
08-30-2008, 02:08 AM
For those who are already in McCain's camp, that may be so. But for the vast majority of undecideds, this is a troubling pick. There are a lot of local women politicians whom I admire, but none whom I would vote for for president. A year and a half as governor of a state with a population of 683,000? As the second in command for a 71 year old man who has had 4 bouts with cancer?

There were many better choices. As an undecided, I question McCain's judgment on this one. For a second in command, I'll trust a textbook politician to hold the reins until the next election over a conservative mother of five, thank you.

For those who are already in Obama's camp, what you say may be so.

However, I wasn't in McCain's camp. I think the last post on this subject, I said about 70 percent chance I vote for McCain. I was still seriously looking at 3rd party candidates, as was a LARGE NUMBER of strong non-republican conservative voters (those who believe in conservatism and not party). This VP choice solidifies the choice for me.

________________


The real issue here, and brilliant I think, is the fact that ANY question about a VP's inexperience will reflect DIRECTLY on the PRESIDENTS experience... and McCain wins that one over Obama.

tony hipchest
08-30-2008, 02:25 AM
The real issue here, and brilliant I think, is the fact that ANY question about a VP's inexperience will reflect DIRECTLY on the PRESIDENTS experience... and McCain wins that one over Obama.

gotta love spin. a song comes to mind. who was it? "tears for fears"?

"you spin me right round baby, right round, righta round baby, right round, right round...."

anyone questioning experience to this point has been the right side. anything beyond that has been simple rebuttal. (especially now that the hypocracy has been exposed)

"oh what a web we weave...." (when it has already been spun)

Preacher
08-30-2008, 02:42 AM
I guess we'll see, then. But I'm not sure that Wasilla (pop 2700) qualifies as a city in most places... it is about 1/3rd the size of... oh, Pleasant Hills. Or, 1/8th as big as Baldwin. Or, 1/6 the size of Scott Twp. How about Eileen Meyers as VP candidate? I didn't think so.

I'm not trying to attack her; I'm trying to analyze it as part of an election strategy, and I don't see how this helps the Republicans. It neutralizes their strongest argument that they had against their opponent, and that doesn't make sense. For anyone who has already decided, it won't change their minds; it won't make Obama's minions go over to McCain, and it won't drive McCain supporters away. But for the undecideds, it certainly won't make any points, at least on the face of it. Sure, Delaware is small, but Biden has been in the Senate for a long time, and has the connections in place. He might not have helped Obama, but he didn't drive away any undecideds, either. In general, the undecideds didn't react with, "Biden? Huh?"

But of course, what's done is done, and we'll see how it plays out.

I disagree. I think there are a number of conservative undecideds out there who did not want to vote for McCain. Actually, a lot of my friends were very upset about McCain and were looking for a third party candidate. So far, those whom I have spoken with, have ALL, today, thrown their support back behind McCain.

Preacher
08-30-2008, 02:47 AM
gotta love spin. a song comes to mind. who was it? "tears for fears"?

"you spin me right round baby, right round, righta round baby, right round, right round...."

anyone questioning experience to this point has been the right side. anything beyond that has been simple rebuttal. (especially now that the hypocracy has been exposed)

"oh what a web we weave...." (when it has already been spun)

The biggest difference here, is that Obama is running for president... Palin is VP.

You don't vote against a candidate for the VP, but a number of conservatives will vote for McCain because of her.

And yes, I can see the commercials now... "the DNC says our VP is not ready, but let's hear IN THEIR OWN VOICES what the dems say about their OWN candidate."

Yeah, I do think that will play.

And the dems are railing on the experience issue already... and I think, are about to fall deep into a trap, whether that was a set trap or one that just came about, I figure the latter.

augustashark
08-30-2008, 04:15 AM
Rev, I've voted for Nixon in '72, for Reagan in '84, Bush in '88, and Bush in '00. I consider my vote to be unpromised to ANY political party, regardless of how I am registered. I vote for the guy I consider to be the best qualified, and I take into account who is advising him as much as anything else, and how much he pays attention to them.

This choice troubles me. This was NOT the time to go all maverick.

So who did you vote for in 80? Your posts here have been very silly. You keep saying that you are not atacking her, but analyzing her. After reading your posts, it seems to me that you are trying to marginalize what she has done and what she can do as VP. To be honest, I don't care if you vote for McCain or not, but to keep bringing up how inexperience she is, holds no water to the big picture. We are not voting for her for pres, but we are voting for Obama for pres. Listen go and cast your vote for the inexperience/career politician ticket! Btw if you did vote for who I think you did in 80, then you should'nt even be in any kind of a dilema on this years race, I think we both know which way you were going to go the entire time.

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-30-2008, 05:33 AM
I guess I look at the the McCain pick a little differently than some.

1) In regards to experience...She obviously has some executive experience, though granted its not much. But more importantly, I think the Dems are playing into the Republicans hands by highlighting this fact. Everytime they say "We could be one heartbeat away from an inexperienced leader"...they are reminding people that they are one vote away from that very thing on the Democratic ticket.
Any thinking person would prefer an experienced president and inexperienced VP....over an inexperienced president and an experienced VP.

2) In regards to her being a Maverick...This ultimately plays into McCains favor. The big catchword this season is "change"...on one side of the ticket you have a Chicago machine politician and a Beltway insider who has shown little effort to work with the other party
On the other side, the Republicans will stress the past history that both McCain and Palin have of working with Dems, and with bucking their own party if necessary.

3) In regards to her being female...This pulls the rug out from under the Dems in regards to their being the exclusive road to "Change"...There are many people who would have voted for Obama out of some feeling of wanting to be perceived as progressive. This pick allows them an alternative. Now lets look at the demographics...74% or 221.3 million of the population is white, of which a little over 50% is female...Palin taps into approximately 112 million votes....13.4% or 40.9 million of the population is African American of which Obama taps into.

Before anyone tries and twists what I am saying and tries to mark me as a racist...I am quite aware that there are white female democrats and black republicans that will not change party lines. What the demographics DO tell us is what base the parties have to theoritically work with.

Just food for thought....its going to be interesting.

TroysBadDawg
08-30-2008, 07:03 AM
LOL, ethics and ANYONE in politics don't go well together; currently most scandals are REPUBLICAN, but that only means that it will be the Democrats' turn soon.

That being said, I think that going after Palin on ethics is a big mistake. I don't think her integrity is an issue here. I think her integrity is probably impeccable.

I stand corrected, but like you stated her ethics will probable be impeccable.
Just another pre-election move to discredit the other side.

I just wish we could have "None Of The Above" (NOTA) on the ballot and stuff like this would go away I believe.

Texasteel
08-30-2008, 07:23 AM
They start by people making shit up and candidates having to respond to this sort of garbage - I say it as a joke and assume you do too - however, there are posters on this board who seriously believed the "Obama was sworn in a Koran" nonsense

We know very little about this candidate right now so rumors can fill in the blanks - we are about to find out a lot more

This may be a masterstroke, but it is one hell of a gamble - even if it works out this sort of management style can eventually lead to driving into the ditch

Your right Dan, I do agree to a point, unfortunately this has become a part of the proses, so it has become another job of the voters to see through the garbage and decide.

My major problem with you and you candidate, is political.

As far as being sworn in, I would prefer he use a bible, but after all, Clinton could have be sworn in with a Betty Crocker Cookbook and it would have meant about the same. Sorry Dan just had to throw that in, keep you sence of humor, it will help get you through this.

Mosca
08-30-2008, 08:20 AM
For those who are already in Obama's camp, what you say may be so.

However, I wasn't in McCain's camp. I think the last post on this subject, I said about 70 percent chance I vote for McCain. I was still seriously looking at 3rd party candidates, as was a LARGE NUMBER of strong non-republican conservative voters (those who believe in conservatism and not party). This VP choice solidifies the choice for me.

Then ask yourself which group was larger; the total pool of undecideds, or the pool of conservative undecideds?

Perhaps McCain thinks that he can win some of them now, and the rest over the next two months. But if I were a Republican, I would have just hammered on "inexperience" until I was blue in the face. IMO, that had a chance of working.

Mosca
08-30-2008, 09:23 AM
So who did you vote for in 80? Your posts here have been very silly. You keep saying that you are not atacking her, but analyzing her. After reading your posts, it seems to me that you are trying to marginalize what she has done and what she can do as VP. To be honest, I don't care if you vote for McCain or not, but to keep bringing up how inexperience she is, holds no water to the big picture. We are not voting for her for pres, but we are voting for Obama for pres. Listen go and cast your vote for the inexperience/career politician ticket! Btw if you did vote for who I think you did in 80, then you should'nt even be in any kind of a dilema on this years race, I think we both know which way you were going to go the entire time.

I voted for John Anderson in 1980.

Sure, it's all just my opinion shark. I don't pretend to have any inside track. Same as when we argue football; I don't know any more than anyone else. But I like talking about it.

My greatest reservation about Obama is that he is so inexperienced... and my biggest reservation about both presidential candidates is that I believe there is a decent chance that neither man will make it all four years (McCain because he is in his 70s and is an exPOW who has had four bouts with cancer, Obama because he is a black man in a country with a lot of white hate groups). So, for me, I see the move as a misstep by McCain, and it is that misstep that I find troubling. It makes me doubt his judgment. I don't want a hockey mom as president, or even near the office, no matter how principled and barracudaish she is. A year and a half a governor of Alaska... at least we got the chance to VOTE on Obama. This woman got PICKED.

Otherwise, I am a bit surprised at your post; you aren't the type to engage in sneering innuendo (unless I just wasn't paying attention).

Michael Keller
08-30-2008, 09:24 AM
The choices this year are not about EXPERIENCE as valuable as expereince is. It is about an intense desire for CHANGE. The reasons Oboma is the nominee for the Democrats is he offers change. McCain is presenting himself as a candidate of CHANGE.

Palin at first glance is "compelling " as Oboma describes her. She is bright, attractive , has solid values even if you do not agree with them. She appears to have virtous courage. She thinks out of the box of any party. Do I think she will be a great leader or even a great candidate . I do not know but I was naively hoping for a non politician to get the nominee and she is pretty close to that. I am voting for McCain for one simple reason.

I do not want the Executive Branch and the Congress to be controlled by the Democrats.

This scenario scares the hell out of me. Far more than Palin being one heart beat away from the presidency. We will know more about Palin after she meets Joe Biden in the debates. If she simply holds her own with Biden she will help the ticket. Her poise as a woman, if she has it, will project well. Quite frankly I see the positive potential here.

Godfather
08-30-2008, 09:31 AM
Palin doesn't need foreign policy experience. J-Mac has that and she can work closely with him and get up to speed. She's solid on domestic policy--she was head of Alaska's oil and gas commission, operated a commercial fishing boat with her husband, was a coach and active PTA member (don't laugh)...in other words, she understands energy, small business, and education. That shores up McCain's weakness.

The R's also need to put the opposite spin on this. Our government is supposed to be a government of the PEOPLE, and this is the first time in a long time an ordinary citizen will be in a position of power. She hasn't been in office long enough to lose touch. She truly understands how policies affect the day to day lives of most people.

Atlanta Dan
08-30-2008, 10:10 AM
So who did you vote for in 80? Your posts here have been very silly. You keep saying that you are not atacking her, but analyzing her. After reading your posts, it seems to me that you are trying to marginalize what she has done and what she can do as VP. To be honest, I don't care if you vote for McCain or not, but to keep bringing up how inexperience she is, holds no water to the big picture. We are not voting for her for pres, but we are voting for Obama for pres. Listen go and cast your vote for the inexperience/career politician ticket! Btw if you did vote for who I think you did in 80, then you should'nt even be in any kind of a dilema on this years race, I think we both know which way you were going to go the entire time.

So you assume anyone who voted for Reagan is not an Obama supporter?:chuckle:

Ever considered the possibility a big chunk of the Gipper's supporters in 1980 were those who were fed up with the failed Administration that preceded him and based their vote on throwing that party out? That scenario certainly is in play this year.

Mosca
08-30-2008, 10:46 AM
People forget that John Anderson was the most successful third party candidate in recent times; there were plenty of us who couldn't bring ourselves to vote for Carter, nor the unknown Reagan.

GBMelBlount
08-30-2008, 11:09 AM
I like the Palin pick. Think about it. Obama is campaigning on "change" and the only thing that has changed ostensibly thus far is his positions on key issues. If you want change, who better than palin? Although she is conservative, she is not partisan. She has gone after corrupt republicans. Wow. Democrat or Republican, THAT is refreshing, and THAT is a big "change" imo.

Atlanta Dan
08-30-2008, 12:10 PM
I like the Palin pick. Think about it. Obama is campaigning on "change" and the only thing that has changed ostensibly thus far is his positions on key issues. If you want change, who better than palin? Although she is conservative, she is not partisan. She has gone after corrupt republicans. Wow. Democrat or Republican, THAT is refreshing, and THAT is a big "change" imo.

A big change would have been picking Meg Whitman or Carly Fiorina; that would involve selecting someone who broke the glass ceiling and has business experience.

THAT would be refreshig

Preacher
08-30-2008, 12:49 PM
Funny thing on the experience front...

Palin the VP has executive experience at two levels. Even at a small level, she knows what it is like to be all alone in making a decision.

Obama the PRESIDENTIAL candidate on the other hand, has NO experience as executive, NO experience making decisions all alone where the blame falls on him and no one else, and even when surrounded with people on both sides, STILL has problem making a choice.. 150 or so times with present votes.

How in the WORLD that means Obama is more situated to be president then Palin I have no idea... and she is our VP.

This just gets better and better.

Godfather
08-30-2008, 01:20 PM
So you assume anyone who voted for Reagan is not an Obama supporter?:chuckle:

Ever considered the possibility a big chunk of the Gipper's supporters in 1980 were those who were fed up with the failed Administration that preceded him and based their vote on throwing that party out? That scenario certainly is in play this year.

Speaking of that analogy, I know a conservative on another board who calls W the Jimmy Carter of the Republican Party.

Atlanta Dan
08-30-2008, 03:37 PM
Speaking of that analogy, I know a conservative on another board who calls W the Jimmy Carter of the Republican Party.

LOL - maybe W will be like Carter; after this year he can attend future party conventions but the GOP will not allow him to speak

Dino 6 Rings
08-30-2008, 03:39 PM
W won a second term, unlike Carter.

Atlanta Dan
08-30-2008, 04:42 PM
W won a second term, unlike Carter.

So did Nixon - longevity is not the only marker of a failed Presidency

Murabma
08-30-2008, 04:46 PM
We know she is proud of her county, her eldest son has been in the Army for nearly a year. A contrast to Michelle Obama, who only became proud of our country when it was apparent Barak was the Nominee. And i wonder if she is a member of a church whose pastor spews racist venom at evey turn. Or if she is friends with unrepentent marxist terrorists.....

Maybe not, but it seems like she herself is a bit, shall we say, "ethically challenged"--seems that she tried to use her position as governor to have her ex-brother-in-law fired from his job as a state trooper while he was fighting a custody battle with her sister. She was apparently accused of cronyism when Mayor of Wasilla as well. Read for yourself:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/29/palin-ethics-investigation/?scp=6&sq=Palin&st=cse

My favorite part--

"Earlier this month, she released an audio recording of a top aide pressing a police lieutenant about why no action had been taken against Mr. Wooten (the ex) given the allegations against him. She also disclosed there had been more two dozen inquiries from members of her staff to the public safety department about him, but she said she only knew about some of the inquiries and had played no role in them.

Excerpts of the audio recording Ms. Palin released showed Frank Bailey, the state’s director of boards and commissions, pushing Lt. Rodney Dial in February about Mr. Wooten.

“Todd [Mr. Palin] and Sarah are scratching their heads, ‘Why on earth hasn’t this, why is this guy still representing the department?’ He’s a horrible recruiting tool, you know,” Mr. Bailey told the lieutenant.""

Anyone else here believe her on this, that despite the fact that folks from her office asked more than 24 times about the guy being fired that none of that came from her? (Oh, BTW, her accuser in all this is the former police chief of Anchorage.) If so, I've got a bridge to nowhere to sell you (which apparently she was for before she was against.)

An absolutely bizarre and desperate choice to win over Hilary voters--if they fall for such pandering then America deserves what we get. I used to have respect for John McCain--I really don't after this. For someone whose motto is "America First", seems to me like he put his personal political ambitions well above any concerns for America.....

Godfather
08-30-2008, 04:49 PM
Maybe not, but it seems like she herself is a bit, shall we say, "ethically challenged"--seems that she tried to use her position as governor to have her ex-brother-in-law fired from his job as a state trooper while he was fighting a custody battle with her sister. She was apparently accused of cronyism when Mayor of Wasilla as well. Read for yourself:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/29/palin-ethics-investigation/?scp=6&sq=Palin&st=cse

My favorite part--

"Earlier this month, she released an audio recording of a top aide pressing a police lieutenant about why no action had been taken against Mr. Wooten (the ex) given the allegations against him. She also disclosed there had been more two dozen inquiries from members of her staff to the public safety department about him, but she said she only knew about some of the inquiries and had played no role in them.

Excerpts of the audio recording Ms. Palin released showed Frank Bailey, the state’s director of boards and commissions, pushing Lt. Rodney Dial in February about Mr. Wooten.

“Todd [Mr. Palin] and Sarah are scratching their heads, ‘Why on earth hasn’t this, why is this guy still representing the department?’ He’s a horrible recruiting tool, you know,” Mr. Bailey told the lieutenant.""

Anyone else here believe her on this, that despite the fact that folks from her office asked more than 24 times about the guy being fired that none of that came from her? (Oh, BTW, her accuser in all this is the former police chief of Anchorage.) If so, I've got a bridge to nowhere to sell you (which apparently she was for before she was against.)

An absolutely bizarre and desperate choice to win over Hilary voters--if they fall for such pandering then America deserves what we get. I used to have respect for John McCain--I really don't after this. For someone whose motto is "America First", seems to me like he put his personal political ambitions well above any concerns for America.....

A pimple on a bee's butt. That trooper needed to be fired. He tased a 10-year-old kid (at the kid's request but still idiotic). Also threatened her father. How many of us could threaten our boss's father and still have a job? Plus threatening your ex-FIL is something that should disqualify you from law enforcement in any case.

Murabma
08-30-2008, 04:54 PM
With respect to my post above--the other interesting thing is that these are facts (for ex., the quoted excerpt from a taped phone recording and other admissions by Palin on this point), unlike a lot of the garbage we've seen spewed about Obama, which are just plain untruths and are known to be untrue by the people who spread them. Worked in 2004 with the Swifties, so why not try it again here......

GBMelBlount
08-30-2008, 04:55 PM
A big change would have been picking Meg Whitman or Carly Fiorina; that would involve selecting someone who broke the glass ceiling and has business experience.

THAT would be refreshing

I agree Dan. The more politicans with successful business experience (excluding attorneys :chuckle: ) the better. I still think Romney has the best business experience / credentials and would be the most capable Pres or VP. *shrug* But I knew McCain would never pick romney as his running mate because let's face it, McCain looks like a decaying chicken fetus standing next to romney.

Murabma
08-30-2008, 04:56 PM
A pimple on a bee's butt. That trooper needed to be fired. He tased a 10-year-old kid (at the kid's request but still idiotic). Also threatened her father. How many of us could threaten our boss's father and still have a job? Plus threatening your ex-FIL is something that should disqualify you from law enforcement in any case.

Are those facts? Said who? Has that been proven, or is that what the governor and her family said?

Another beaut--when running for office she said that her husband would quit his job with British Petroleum so as to avoid any conflict of interest. Well, he did take a leave of absence for a few months after she won, but then once the "coast was clear" went back to work for them. How's that for ethically challenged? Appears that she ain't the image of squeaky clean that's being portrayed by the Republican party.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/us/politics/30palin.html?_r=1&scp=5&sq=Palin&st=cse&oref=slogin

"Although Ms. Palin once said that her husband would quit his job at BP if she were elected governor, she later backed away from that. He took a leave from the company after she won, but went back to work there last year, saying his family needed the money. And the governor now says that because Mr. Palin is not in management, it poses no conflict with her own dealings with the petroleum industry, a major force in Alaska’s politics and economy."

steveironcity
08-30-2008, 04:57 PM
Meg Whitman is pro-Abortion, so im guessing thats what made her a no-no. It a pro-abortion candidate was allowed by the RNC, the ticket would be Mccain/Lieberman

X-Terminator
08-30-2008, 06:50 PM
Are those facts? Said who? Has that been proven, or is that what the governor and her family said?

Another beaut--when running for office she said that her husband would quit his job with British Petroleum so as to avoid any conflict of interest. Well, he did take a leave of absence for a few months after she won, but then once the "coast was clear" went back to work for them. How's that for ethically challenged? Appears that she ain't the image of squeaky clean that's being portrayed by the Republican party.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/us/politics/30palin.html?_r=1&scp=5&sq=Palin&st=cse&oref=slogin

"Although Ms. Palin once said that her husband would quit his job at BP if she were elected governor, she later backed away from that. He took a leave from the company after she won, but went back to work there last year, saying his family needed the money. And the governor now says that because Mr. Palin is not in management, it poses no conflict with her own dealings with the petroleum industry, a major force in Alaska’s politics and economy."

So in other words, she's apparently a typical politician. Not that she's the first one to ever do something like that or what you mentioned in your previous post. Nor will she be the last. But it should not disqualify her from being the VP - if such dealings did, then Obama, Biden, Hillary and McCain shouldn't have even been allowed to run in the first place.

God, more mudslinging. When does it end??? Are we EVER going to move past this shit and start voting for candidates based on the issues?

revefsreleets
08-30-2008, 07:20 PM
The digging starts...but I'll bet donuts to dollars that McCain's people already dug. Whatever the Dems find, and no matter how hard they spin it up and try to make it stick, she's going to be difficult to smear. She's coated in a ton of Democratic traits, and it's going to roll back on them if they bash her for a few idiosyncrasies...

After a day to digest, I think this was a smart choice for McCain. I want to emphasize that it was smart for HIM, and ONLY him. He does play by different rules, and this emphasizes that characteristic. He's not going to lose votes over this, he'll gain them.

He'll win in November because of this choice...

Murabma
08-30-2008, 07:25 PM
So in other words, she's apparently a typical politician. Not that she's the first one to ever do something like that or what you mentioned in your previous post. Nor will she be the last. But it should not disqualify her from being the VP - if such dealings did, then Obama, Biden, Hillary and McCain shouldn't have even been allowed to run in the first place.

God, more mudslinging. When does it end??? Are we EVER going to move past this shit and start voting for candidates based on the issues?

Yup, she is a typical pol, but it's all the more appropriate to point out her ethical challenges since one of the things that she had on her resume (and which Republicans have been trying to trumpet) was chairperson of some kind of Alaska state ethics commission.

BTW, anyone here know what her stances are on the issues? I mean, the issues facing a small town in Alaska and even that state itself aren't quite the same as what she'd be dealing with in the VP job. From the interviews and comments I've seen I'm not sure if she does herself--after all, this is the woman who last month had to ask what the VP does (saw that one on TV myself). Saw another comment from a poster elsewhere that when asked about the Iraq war she said she didn't know enough about it to have an opinion--can't vouch for that one myself since I didn't see the primary quote, but if true that's a doozy, especially considering her son enlisted last year. Just an odd choice all around, but it looks to me at first glance like John McCain thinks that a female with a pretty face and sweet talking words for Hilary, but with nearly no relevant experience, can hoodwink voters into voting for his ticket. Talk about pandering. He might be right, but if he is I'll be dearly disappointed with the American people....

steveironcity
08-30-2008, 07:36 PM
Yup, she is a typical pol, but it's all the more appropriate to point out her ethical challenges since one of the things that she had on her resume (and which Republicans have been trying to trumpet) was chairperson of some kind of Alaska state ethics commission.

BTW, anyone here know what her stances are on the issues? I mean, the issues facing a small town in Alaska and even that state itself aren't quite the same as what she'd be dealing with in the VP job. From the interviews and comments I've seen I'm not sure if she does herself--after all, this is the woman who last month had to ask what the VP does (saw that one on TV myself). Saw another comment from a poster elsewhere that when asked about the Iraq war she said she didn't know enough about it to have an opinion--can't vouch for that one myself since I didn't see the primary quote, but if true that's a doozy, especially considering her son enlisted last year. Just an odd choice all around, but it looks to me at first glance like John McCain thinks that a female with a pretty face and sweet talking words for Hilary, but with nearly no relevant experience, can hoodwink voters into voting for his ticket. Talk about pandering. He might be right, but if he is I'll be dearly disappointed with the American people....

Do you work in politics? Because if you dont you should. Classic Politcs in this post. Except the whole trying insulting small town/ small state thing... Im sure that will go over real well in middele america. And thats where elections are won or lost.

revefsreleets
08-30-2008, 07:40 PM
Again, this is what you get if you want a return to "politics by the body politic" (read: the REAL people). This is a savvy choice and can be readily defended. I'll take up her cause in a second.

McCain stole ALL Obama's thunder with this choice, too. Anybody talking about bitter old Joe Biden today?

steveironcity
08-30-2008, 07:46 PM
Again, this is what you get if you want a return to "politics by the body politic" (read: the REAL people). This is a savvy choice and can be readily defended. I'll take up her cause in a second.

McCain stole ALL Obama's thunder with this choice, too. Anybody talking about bitter old Joe Biden today?

Notice how Mccain is old at 72, but I guess Biden is a spring chicken at 65.

revefsreleets
08-30-2008, 08:08 PM
Obama needed some age, so he added 65...McCain needed youth, so he subtracted 44.

Those two now balance.

Godfather
08-30-2008, 11:12 PM
Obama needed some age, so he added 65...McCain needed youth, so he subtracted 44.

Those two now balance.

Exactly-you can talk Hopechangeunity all you want but you need experience and a Washington insider on the ticket. Plus Obama didn't have much choice as far as picking a white male. There would have been too many people who would have been uneasy about a ticket without one. He also needed a bland choice to offset the Superstar image.

J-Mac needed youth and vitality. He needed executive experience even if it's limited. He needed a Washington outsider. He needed a woman or minority due to the historic nature of this election. He needed someone who would motivate the party base without scaring swing voters. And he needed an exciting pick to steal Obama's thunder.

They both did exactly what they needed to do.

Atlanta Dan
08-31-2008, 12:27 AM
The digging starts...but I'll bet donuts to dollars that McCain's people already dug. Whatever the Dems find, and no matter how hard they spin it up and try to make it stick, she's going to be difficult to smear. She's coated in a ton of Democratic traits, and it's going to roll back on them if they bash her for a few idiosyncrasies...

After a day to digest, I think this was a smart choice for McCain. I want to emphasize that it was smart for HIM, and ONLY him. He does play by different rules, and this emphasizes that characteristic. He's not going to lose votes over this, he'll gain them.

He'll win in November because of this choice...

Because she has a nice bio? There are a lot of blanks that potentially can be filled in.

The Alaska State Senate President does not seem to be a fan:

State Senate President Lyda Green said she thought it was a joke when someone called her at 6 a.m. to give her the news.

"She's not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president?" said Green, a Republican from Palin's hometown of Wasilla. "Look at what she's done to this state. What would she do to the nation?"

And there is this ringing endorsement:chuckle:

State House Speaker John Harris, a Republican from Valdez, was astonished at the news. He didn't want to get into the issue of her qualifications.

"She's old enough," Harris said. "She's a U.S. citizen."

http://www.adn.com/news/politics/story/510249.html

Palin's got 2 months of exposure on the campaign trail and a debate to get through - don't underestimate the possibility of her sinking herself - in terms of the level of exposure and analysis it's the difference between pitching for the Durham Bulls and in the World Series.

As I have stated, this may be a great pick but after 48 hours it is impossible to tell.

Preacher
08-31-2008, 12:41 AM
The Alaska State Senate President does not seem to be a fan:



Actually, that seems to be a ringing endorsement for me...

cause from what I understand, the Alaskan GOP needed to be slashed and burned...

and guess who was doing it?

Kind of like McCain...

Oh wait... that means no politics as usuall...

wait, that can't be... Obama has claimed to be the agent of change.... with Biden :chuckle:

Atlanta Dan
08-31-2008, 12:45 AM
Actually, that seems to be a ringing endorsement for me...

cause from what I understand, the Alaskan GOP needed to be slashed and burned...

and guess who was doing it?

Kind of like McCain...

Oh wait... that means no politics as usuall...

wait, that can't be... Obama has claimed to be the agent of change.... with Biden :chuckle:

OK - spin Ted Stevens being a fan as a big plus as well

Preacher
08-31-2008, 12:49 AM
OK - spin Ted Stevens being a fan as a big plus as well



Funny... he ISNT a fan.. (EDIT... She ain't a fan of his... He seems to see GOP over anything else)

Palin's relationship with Stevens

Posted: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:40 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: 2008 (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/category/1023.aspx), McCain (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/category/1207.aspx)



From NBC's Doug Adams
Ted Stevens, the grand-daddy of Alaskan politics, has a wary relationship with the new Republican VP pick -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.

When Palin was running for governor in 2006, she ousted long time Alaska fixture Frank Murkowski in a hard fought primary. Stevens and Murkowski are long time friends and Palin was able to defeat the sitting governor by running on ethics and clean government reformist platform.

Stevens ultimately came to endorse Palin, but it was late in the game. He endorsed her less than three weeks before the general election, although he did cut a television advertisement for her.

In July of last year, Palin shocked and angered Stevens by publicly criticizing him for his role in the VECO scandal and called for him to speak out about it.

"I think I join others in wanting to know of the senator's innocence," Palin said. "Right now, we're not hearing anything."

When Stevens was indicted last month for month on corruption charges, Palin said the indictment "rocks the foundation of the state" and added that she shares with others "dismay" and concern.

Stevens is running for re-election to the Senate this year, and he is in a tough race. He survived his primary last week, despite the fact that Palin backed his opponent. But in the general election, Stevens is trailing in the polls to the popular Democratic mayor of Anchorage, Mark Begich.

But the relationship between Palin and Stevens is not completely frosty, and he needs her help. Palin is by far the most popular politician in Alaska right now, with approval ratings above 80 percent.

They came together this summer for a joint press conference on energy initiatives. Both support drilling in ANWR, and Stevens has lent tacit support for Palin's effort to build and pay for a natural gas pipeline through Alaska.

And Stevens went out of his way to compliment Palin this summer in interviews, saying she was on the right track as governor, praising her plans to handle the state's energy crisis and telling Alaskans she'd make a good vice presidential pick for McCain.

"People come up and ask me what is she like and how is she doing," he said. "I've been asked that, and I've told them I think she would be a good vice president.".

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/29/1305615.aspx


Ever wonder why when the opponent answers an argument it is spin and when you answer an argument its an answer?

augustashark
08-31-2008, 03:44 AM
I voted for John Anderson in 1980.

Sure, it's all just my opinion shark. I don't pretend to have any inside track. Same as when we argue football; I don't know any more than anyone else. But I like talking about it.

My greatest reservation about Obama is that he is so inexperienced... and my biggest reservation about both presidential candidates is that I believe there is a decent chance that neither man will make it all four years (McCain because he is in his 70s and is an exPOW who has had four bouts with cancer, Obama because he is a black man in a country with a lot of white hate groups). So, for me, I see the move as a misstep by McCain, and it is that misstep that I find troubling. It makes me doubt his judgment. I don't want a hockey mom as president, or even near the office, no matter how principled and barracudaish she is. A year and a half a governor of Alaska... at least we got the chance to VOTE on Obama. This woman got PICKED.

Otherwise, I am a bit surprised at your post; you aren't the type to engage in sneering innuendo (unless I just wasn't paying attention).


No "sneering innuendo" at all. Just saw the same quote from you in several posts about "not attacking her" I just took it that you were attacking her and wanted to reply. As far as the 80 election I just assumed you voted for Carter therefore you would more then likely be leaning for Obama. Sorry for assuming, but heck it's what we do here. :drink:

augustashark
08-31-2008, 03:46 AM
So you assume anyone who voted for Reagan is not an Obama supporter?:chuckle:

Ever considered the possibility a big chunk of the Gipper's supporters in 1980 were those who were fed up with the failed Administration that preceded him and based their vote on throwing that party out? That scenario certainly is in play this year.

I reread my post three times and still can not figure where in the world you came up with your reply. :noidea:

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-31-2008, 05:05 AM
Funny... he ISNT a fan.. (EDIT... She ain't a fan of his... He seems to see GOP over anything else)



http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/29/1305615.aspx


Ever wonder why when the opponent answers an argument it is spin and when you answer an argument its an answer?

Why let a good knee jerk reaction get confused with the facts?

Takes way too much time to actually research the truth....much easier to just attack..deflect...then play the martyr,

steelwall
08-31-2008, 07:02 AM
3 words....Mcain will win.

Nuff said

Atlanta Dan
08-31-2008, 09:00 AM
Funny... he ISNT a fan.. (EDIT... She ain't a fan of his... He seems to see GOP over anything else)



http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/29/1305615.aspx


Ever wonder why when the opponent answers an argument it is spin and when you answer an argument its an answer?

You give as good as you get - the shots on our posts go in both directions

Maybe I should design a test on "intellectual honesty" so I can pass it:chuckle:

Atlanta Dan
08-31-2008, 09:02 AM
I reread my post three times and still can not figure where in the world you came up with your reply. :noidea:

Your post made assumptions that you now concede were unjustified

As far as the 80 election I just assumed you voted for Carter therefore you would more then likely be leaning for Obama

:drink:

Cape Cod Steel Head
08-31-2008, 10:19 AM
Best VP pick since McGovern picked Eagleton in 72!

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-31-2008, 10:37 AM
Originally Posted by Atlanta Dan
So you assume anyone who voted for Reagan is not an Obama supporter?

Ever considered the possibility a big chunk of the Gipper's supporters in 1980 were those who were fed up with the failed Administration that preceded him and based their vote on throwing that party out? That scenario certainly is in play this year.

Actually that scenario does NOT play itself out.....Apples and Oranges since the 1980 election had an incumbant nominee in Carter...:headshake:

Maybe I should design a test on "intellectual honesty" so I can pass it

Strangely enough...The only way I could pass an advanced Trigonometry test.....is if I designed it myself.



"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

Michael Keller
08-31-2008, 11:12 AM
I would encouerage every one to get to know "Sarah Baracuda". I present her nickname with admiration. Read Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, which I consider an honest and objective source of information.

I personally have been looking for a refreshing out of the main stream non-political person. This may be the answer. This woman has quite a bit going for her and "guts" is perhaps her greatest strength.

I would advise McCain to present a very specfic job description & what he expects her role to be. Leadership in the Energy field for example.

Make this Veep nominee a reason voters will vote for or even against the McCain /PALIN ticket .

My greatest fear is that this country's constituency may want socialism and the hand of Big governement to provide and guide their respective lives. I am old enough that I am not going to have live with the mess liberalism and big government will distribute.

Oh yes I do blame George W Bush for creating this opportunity for Oboma. Bush is the problem on the other range of the spectrum but overreaction to something bad does not solve the problem(s).

I think the differences between the four candiates is now distinct and clear . I also believe McCain has now made it clear that he is not a continuation of George Bush. He really never was . Come on this guy is a maverick if I have ever seen one.

Finally He would be a great Steeler fan. I would not be surprised to see Jack Lambert come out of the hills and work for "Sarah Baracuda." Pennsyvania is a key state.

Cape Cod Steel Head
08-31-2008, 11:22 AM
Wikipiedia????? Honest???? Objective???:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Preacher
08-31-2008, 11:24 AM
You give as good as you get - the shots on our posts go in both directions

Maybe I should design a test on "intellectual honesty" so I can pass it:chuckle:

Hmmm...

Interesting deflection when the use of "spin" is called out.... thanks for the illustration! :chuckle:

Michael Keller
08-31-2008, 11:27 AM
Wikipiedia????? Honest???? Objective???:rofl::rofl::rofl:

What information would you refer to a seeker of truth? Please do not provide a cartoon in lieu of an intelligent response. I anxiouslly await your recommendation(s)

Michael Keller

Cape Cod Steel Head
08-31-2008, 11:40 AM
What information would you refer to a seeker of truth? Please do not provide a cartoon in lieu of an intelligent response. I anxiouslly await your recommendation(s)

Michael KellerCertainly not wikipedia my friend. The BBC, any on line encyclopedia other than wikipedia where you, or I can write our own definitions. The Christian Science Monitor, Roll Call.com, Congressional Quarterly, Politico.com, to mention a few.

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-31-2008, 11:56 AM
Hmmm...

Interesting deflection when the use of "spin" is called out.... thanks for the illustration! :chuckle:


LOL!!!!....Slam dunk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rofl::rofl:

Michael Keller
08-31-2008, 11:58 AM
Certainly not wikipedia my friend. The BBC, any on line encyclopedia other than wikipedia where you, or I can write our own definitions. The Christian Science Monitor, Roll Call.com, Congressional Quarterly, Politico.com, to mention a few.

Thank you . I promise I will check out thoroughly your reommendations and perhaps with other collegues I respect . However if you wish to check out Wikipedia , essentially the biographic information on Palin , and inform me of what you believe to erroneous either in fact or opinion. I understand that you may not agree with her or myself but what do you believe is incorrect in Wikpedia?

Again thank you.

Cape Cod Steel Head
08-31-2008, 12:05 PM
I have major issues with Wikipedia, not necessarily with her entry in wiki. I know all I need to know about her(pro life, believes in creationism) to know that I'd never vote Republican.

Preacher
08-31-2008, 12:18 PM
I have major issues with Wikipedia, not necessarily with her entry in wiki. I know all I need to know about her(pro life, believes in creationism) to know that I'd never vote Republican.

So do you think she is an evil backward hick for believing those things, or do you just disagree with her stances and the following conclusions they would draw on various issues?

Just wondering.

Cape Cod Steel Head
08-31-2008, 12:32 PM
So do you think she is an evil backward hick for believing those things, or do you just disagree with her stances and the following conclusions they would draw on various issues?

Just wondering.Just respectfully disagree.

Michael Keller
08-31-2008, 12:45 PM
Preacher :

Question for you > Do you believe Palin offers the moderate and conservative voters and those who oppose goverenement intrusion a clear choice such that we will know what this country's citizens on balance wants from their governement ?

Is she unique and reslient enough?. I understand the enthusiasm for Oboma; and if you believe as his followers do; he is refreshing. However I do see him waffling to the center .

I have a reason for hope as I personally perceive this woman's independence and convictions.

Preacher
08-31-2008, 12:49 PM
Just respectfully disagree.

:hatsoff:


Thank you, and I understand. I cannot vote for someone who does support abortion. Thus, at this point, I cannot vote for anyone in the Dem party.

Preacher
08-31-2008, 12:53 PM
Preacher :

Question for you > Do you believe Palin offers the moderate and conservative voters and those who oppose goverenement intrusion a clear choice such that we will know what this country's citizens on balance wants from their governement ?

Is she unique and reslient enough?. I understand the enthusiasm for Oboma; and if you believe as his followers do; he is refreshing. However I do see him waffling to the center .

I have a reason for hope as I personally perceive this woman's independence and convictions.

Let's cut down to brass tax....

She is red meat thrown to the party base and independent conservatives out there who were drifting away from the party.

Fact is, the phrase "govt. intrusion" is quite tricky. A pro-choice woman will say banning abortion is a govt. intrusion while a pro-life woman will say it is protection life. A pro-2nd Amendment person will say gun control is govt. intrusion while gun control advocates will say it is an issue of public safety and thus protecting life.

Terms like Govt. intrusion get so overused that they don't mean anything anymore, which is the underlying problem of rhetoric... it strips meaning from words and hinders debate.

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-31-2008, 01:03 PM
Preacher :

Question for you > Do you believe Palin offers the moderate and conservative voters and those who oppose goverenement intrusion a clear choice such that we will know what this country's citizens on balance wants from their governement ?

Is she unique and reslient enough?. I understand the enthusiasm for Oboma; and if you believe as his followers do; he is refreshing. However I do see him waffling to the center .

I have a reason for hope as I personally perceive this woman's independence and convictions.

FOUL!!....

The words HOPE and CHANGE have been officially copyrighted by the Democratic Party.

You also may not use the phrases: "It’s time to turn the page”...“Fired up and ready to go.”....and “Yes, we can!”

:chuckle:

Michael Keller
08-31-2008, 02:03 PM
I will continue to use the word government intrusion because it a pragmatic action . Intrusion, meaning governement steping in and determing what a small business MUST DO even if is not pragmatic and causes unecessary expenditures. I have owned my own business for 20 years and trust me intrusion is in fact applicable and in fact stronger words can be used.

Hope and change are personal or business properties subject to copy rights??? . Sounds like liberal dogma and such thinking really alarms me.

Also sounds like whistling in the dark as hope and change which still yet retains its own independence , thank GOD , has been spread over to the other side.

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-31-2008, 02:06 PM
I will continue to use the word government intrusion because it a pragmatic action . Intrusion, meaning governement steping in and determing what a small business MUST DO even if is not pragmatic and causes unecessary expenditures. I have owned my own business for 20 years and trust me intrusion is in fact applicable and in fact stronger words can be used.

Hope and change are personal or business properties subject to copy rights??? . Sounds like liberal dogma and such thinking really alarms me.

Also sounds like whistling in the dark as hope and change which still yet retains its own independence , thank GOD , has been spread over to the other side.

WHOA there !!!

I was being sarcastic....and in fact making fun of the shallow fluff of the Dem party "catch-words"
...relax.

Michael Keller
08-31-2008, 02:45 PM
WHOA there !!!

I was being sarcastic....and in fact making fun of the shallow fluff of the Dem party "catch-words"
...relax.


Thank you for the good advice. LOL

But as you can tell I have the feelings of one who has been the victom of excessive regulatory governement.

Preacher
08-31-2008, 09:31 PM
See...

we need a sarcasm smiley!!!

:chuckle:

revefsreleets
08-31-2008, 09:50 PM
McCain won the election with this pick NOT because of what the press will dig up on Palin, but just because who she is. The American people are pretty obtuse, and will vote on their gut feeling over what their head says. Not that McCain/Palin isn't the wiser choice anyway, just saying...

Obama is black man, so lots of Americans will pop in the booth and think "Ahhhhh...no, not JUST yet", which is bad, but with his resume, he's only in the running BECAUSE he's black, so it cancels that out.

Either way, McCain wins. I'm not fan of some of the social issues, but this is going to be the right way for the US to go.

(And forget about him nixing Roe v Wade...if Bush didn't do it, how/why could McCain?)

tony hipchest
08-31-2008, 10:07 PM
so america is gonna vote for palin as a change from change that hasnt even happened yet? :confused: obtuse indeed.

speaking of relative inexperience and flip flopping on the grandest scale-

word is Palin used Snuggle fabric softener for years, and right before here nomination switched to Downey. :jawdrop:

in an interview with CNN, her local gorcery stocker boy says this is not unusual as she will often switch to the cheapest product regardless of "brand loyalty".

:scratchchin: looks like were stuck with a flip flopper in the WH either way...

:chuckle:

revefsreleets
08-31-2008, 10:15 PM
It's about the first impression, not the deeper digging. She makes a great first impression on swing votes/FDR Dems, et al...

I don't even need to debate about it. The GOP will win this election because of this pick...it's just a matter of waiting until the first Tuesday in November now...

tony hipchest
08-31-2008, 10:22 PM
It's about the first impression, not the deeper digging. She makes a great first impression on swing votes/FDR Dems, et al...

I don't even need to debate about it. The GOP will win this election because of this pick...it's just a matter of waiting until the first Tuesday in November now...

thanks. you just saved me a wasted trip to the polls then. :rolleyes:

1st impression is that shes easy on the eyes, and if thats what mccain has to resort to to win then so be it...

the hypocritical pick now looks shallow too. :cheers:

Preacher
08-31-2008, 10:24 PM
(And forget about him nixing Roe v Wade...if Bush didn't do it, how/why could McCain?)

Interesting quote... and here is something you, I, and Tony could probably all agree on.

The reason why the GOP won't push for a const. amend. for pro-life... and the Dems push for a const. amendment for pro-choice, is because they are all too afraid. They all want to leave it in the courts... which is the chicken way out.

Just like civil rights. The right body of govt. was too chicken to push civil rights... so they pushed it to the courts... then followed the courts thereafter since it was now "established."

I do wish we could have a leader... then again, with the way we crucify ANYONE that is wrong... why would anyone want to step up?

revefsreleets
08-31-2008, 10:24 PM
That's a great point, and not the one I was trying make, but it rings true.

She'll get better looking now, too...she'll be in better shape and will have perfect hair and make-up. This ain't Geraldine Ferraro...America will fall in love with this MILF...God bless America!

revefsreleets
08-31-2008, 10:26 PM
I won't discuss abortion. My opinion? It should be legal, but rare...

Preacher
08-31-2008, 10:43 PM
I won't discuss abortion. My opinion? It should be legal, but rare...

yeah.. I was using abortion here because it is the "hot button" right now.

Of course... in 30 years, it will probably be something else.

OneForTheToe
09-01-2008, 01:06 AM
yeah.. I was using abortion here because it is the "hot button" right now.

Of course... in 30 years, it will probably be something else.

On the other hand, it still might be abortion.:coffee:

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 01:08 AM
That's a great point, and not the one I was trying make, but it rings true.

She'll get better looking now, too...she'll be in better shape and will have perfect hair and make-up. This ain't Geraldine Ferraro...America will fall in love with this MILF...God bless America!:chuckle:

GOP = Glory 'ole Party :jerkit:

i rue the day that the presidential election becomes a cumdumpster of votes but...

i posed the scenario earlier in this thread where our 2 presidential candidates in 2012 are sarah "the body" palin vs hilary clinton (please, please, PLEASE, mccain, dont die).

in this day and age of blogospheres, photoshop, american idol, survivor, and ms universe pageants ruling the day, i hate to imagine what it will be like 4 years from now.

:noidea: perhaps we deserve what we get...

if falling in love with a MILF is the criteria, i guess we should expect to see britney spears, madonna, susan sarandon, or angelina jolie on the next ticket. most people are actually more familiar with their political stances and credentials than that of palin.

what makes me laugh the most is what a shame it is mccain couldnt pick conan/the terminator as his running mate: he certainly is more quallified.... (hell, even jesse "the body" ventura probably is). :laughing:

augustashark
09-01-2008, 01:56 AM
:hatsoff:


Thank you, and I understand. I cannot vote for someone who does support abortion. Thus, at this point, I cannot vote for anyone in the Dem party.

I will always agree to disagree with pro choice people. The one thing that I can not however is the people that supports partial birth abortion. Both of the left wing liberals who are running on the Dem ticket are supporters of this procedure.

I will never understand why any mother in this country could vote for someone who supports PBA! Oh I forgot, he is like a rock star and he gets kids excited plus he says he is for change! LOL, like leading the sheep to the slaughter. And don't even get me started on the whole income redistribution belief that these liberals push.

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 02:22 AM
I will always agree to disagree with pro choice people. The one thing that I can not however is the people that supports partial birth abortion. Both of the left wing liberals who are running on the Dem ticket are supporters of this procedure.

I will never understand why any mother in this country could vote for someone who supports PBA! Oh I forgot, he is like a rock star and he gets kids excited plus he says he is for change! LOL, like leading the sheep to the slaughter. And don't even get me started on the whole income redistribution belief that these liberals push.

back on topic....

other than a seal clubbing, polar bear hating, walrus worshipping, tusk harvesting wiccan, pagan, beauty queen, what else do we know about palin?

she is a nascar fan... hence the name 2 of her kids non pagan names "bristol" and "track".

-former runner-up in the Miss Alaska beauty contest
- "soccer-mom" type
-journalism student :sofunny: (thank God she has atleast
learned the art of spin, deflection, and diversion.)
-mother-of-five
-she is hugely popular in Alaska (:laughing: my mom would be hugely popular in alaska)
-She also opposes same-sex marriage, but has often sympathised with the concerns of gay community about discrimination and has implemented legislation ensuring equal benefits for same-sex couples. (strawberries with that waffle?)
-She is currently under investigation by the state legislature.
-An Alaskan through and through :chuckle:
-A moose hunter
- a strong believer in gun ownership. (who in alaska isnt?)
-Before entering politics she had a number of unconventional jobs including sports reporter and commercial fisherman (too bad curling and the fish toss havent quite caught on in America.

yeah... thats about it. perfectly equipped to fill in if our ACTUAL president isnt capable.

holy shit, are we in for some trouble...

im just scared to see how many people actually vote for this ticket. i understand small town politics.

my best friend ran for president of the school board at the age of 23 as a joke and a dare and won. granted we are from a town and state much larger than what sarah is used to dealing with).

granted he was probably much more qualified to lead the position than her (having a nice position in the clerks office based on nepotism= how do you think i was an election judge for 4 years), but if anyone knew the shit we did, he may not have got a single vote :chuckle: :wink02:

her credentials dont mean shit to me. i just laugh at what a joke this has become. if mccain wants to turn this into a comedy to prove a point, more power to him.

he had the chance to be the "better man", instead he handed over his balls to a good lookin lady.

:shake01:

in other words, give me a million bucks and about 8 years in alaska and i can almost guarantee you that tony hipchest will be the VP candidate in 2016. :toofunny:

Preacher
09-01-2008, 02:52 AM
back on topic....

other than a seal clubbing, polar bear hating, walrus worshipping, tusk harvesting wiccan, pagan, beauty queen, what else do we know about palin?

she is a nascar fan... hence the name 2 of her kids non pagan names "bristol" and "track".

-former runner-up in the Miss Alaska beauty contest
- "soccer-mom" type
-journalism student :sofunny: (thank God she has atleast
learned the art of spin, deflection, and diversion.)
-mother-of-five
-she is hugely popular in Alaska (:laughing: my mom would be hugely popular in alaska)
-She also opposes same-sex marriage, but has often sympathised with the concerns of gay community about discrimination and has implemented legislation ensuring equal benefits for same-sex couples. (strawberries with that waffle?)
-She is currently under investigation by the state legislature.
-An Alaskan through and through :chuckle:
-A moose hunter
- a strong believer in gun ownership. (who in alaska isnt?)
-Before entering politics she had a number of unconventional jobs including sports reporter and commercial fisherman (too bad curling and the fish toss havent quite caught on in America.

yeah... thats about it. perfectly equipped to fill in if our ACTUAL president isnt capable.

holy shit, are we in for some trouble...

im just scared to see how many people actually vote for this ticket. i understand small town politics.

my best friend ran for president of the school board at the age of 23 as a joke and a dare and won. granted we are from a town and state much larger than what sarah is used to dealing with).

granted he was probably much more qualified to lead the position than her (having a nice position in the clerks office based on nepotism= how do you think i was an election judge for 4 years), but if anyone knew the shit we did, he may not have got a single vote :chuckle: :wink02:

her credentials dont mean shit to me. i just laugh at what a joke this has become. if mccain wants to turn this into a comedy to prove a point, more power to him.

he had the chance to be the "better man", instead he handed over his balls to a good lookin lady.

:shake01:

in other words, give me a million bucks and about 8 years in alaska and i can almost guarantee you that tony hipchest will be the VP candidate in 2016. :toofunny:


:rofl:
This is GREAT....

The VEEP choice is horrible because she ONLY was a governor for 16 months and in that time, managed to cut spending, taxes, throw a fellow GOP'er under the bus for ethics problems and tell congress to keep their money on a pork project.

The PRESIDENTIAL choice of the dems has done exactly WHAT in his 160 or so days on the job???? voted present? Really?

Yeah, we are in for trouble. WHen the HEAD of a party ticket has absolutely no experience... and people are STILL thinking about voting for him or her, we are in a SERIOUS amount of trouble.

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 03:04 AM
:rofl:
This is GREAT....

The VEEP choice is horrible because she ONLY was a governor for 16 months and in that time, managed to cut spending, taxes, throw a fellow GOP'er under the bus for ethics problems and tell congress to keep their money on a pork project.

The PRESIDENTIAL choice of the dems has done exactly WHAT in his 160 or so days on the job???? voted present? Really?

Yeah, we are in for trouble. WHen the HEAD of a party ticket has absolutely no experience... and people are STILL thinking about voting for him or her, we are in a SERIOUS amount of trouble.
uh.... preach.....

this thread is about the rep vp candidate.

there are plenty of other obama bashing threads (that have been beaten to death) to go around....

(you know, wailing wall and flag on tail type of stuff)

great job putting words in my mouth by insinuating i called her "HORRIBLE" though. :thumbsup: (i love all the beauty queens)

i just enjoy poiting out the hypocracy (in general- definitely not pointing at you, cause i know, respect, and understand your specific stances) of the nomination and those who rush to its defense.

Preacher
09-01-2008, 03:22 AM
uh.... preach.....

this thread is about the rep vp candidate.

there are plenty of other obama bashing threads (that have been beaten to death) to go around....

(you know, wailing wall and flag on tail type of stuff)

great job putting words in my mouth by insinuating i called her "HORRIBLE" though. :thumbsup: (i love all the beauty queens)

i just enjoy poiting out the hypocracy (in general- definitely not pointing at you, cause i know, respect, and understand your specific stances) of the nomination and those who rush to its defense.

Tony... I used horrible as a generalization of what I have been hearing about her from the DNC, and many of the sycophants.... not you, though I was answering you so I should have been more specific about that...sorry.

And yes, the thread is about the VP. What I don't understand however, is how criticism can be leveled at her, and not at Obama in the same way. That is all.

Anyways... I don't think the Obama bashing threads have yet equaled AD's bush bashing threads, let alone all the others, so I think the dems are still ahead of the game on this board!

:wink02:

revefsreleets
09-01-2008, 09:55 AM
Again, if you are looking for a return to "By the people, for the people", she fits that bill...

Michael Keller
09-01-2008, 10:05 AM
Again, if you are looking for a return to "By the people, for the people", she fits that bill...

She absolutely does . Her so called inexperience really means she has not been "corrupted" by intense system of influence peddaling.

GBMelBlount
09-01-2008, 01:23 PM
:chuckle:

what makes me laugh the most is what a shame it is mccain couldnt pick conan/the terminator as his running mate: he certainly is more quallified.... (hell, even jesse "the body" ventura probably is). :laughing:

What's even funnier is that if she was running for POTUS against Obama right now, I'd seriously consider giving her my vote..... :drink:

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 01:38 PM
Again, if you are looking for a return to "By the people, for the people", she fits that bill...definitely not what im looking for. thats like me wanting NASCAR to return to its southern roots and saying "hand me over the keys" just cause im from the south[west].

i kinda like the career politicians such as clinton (who atleast majored in economics before becomming the gov.) and bill richardson who made public service their goal and dream real early in life, insteada just waking up one day and saying "hmmmm.... maybe i should run for office cause im cute and know i can win".

you know, somebody who studies up on the position a bit. journalism? lmao.

but to each his own. youre the one voting for her, not me. right? :wink02:

(and i know youre not voting for her per se but mccain + any joe schmoe yokel he may select as a running mate.)

lamberts-lost-tooth
09-01-2008, 02:12 PM
:chuckle:


what makes me laugh the most is what a shame it is mccain couldnt pick conan/the terminator as his running mate: he certainly is more quallified.... (hell, even jesse "the body" ventura probably is). :laughing:

I quess she must have that....."IT" factor....since that seems to be more important than qualification...right?

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 02:37 PM
I quess she must have that....."IT" factor....since that seems to be more important than qualification...right?mccain sure seems to think so. :naughty:

...or was palin voted in by the majority of the GOP party in the primaries? :noidea:

lamberts-lost-tooth
09-01-2008, 02:44 PM
I was actually ribbing you about a previous post where others were trying to figure out why people were gravitating to another candidate with "no experience"

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

you are asking why so many people gravitate to him, and like him. the french have a phrase for this that has been adapted/adopted into english vernacular. obama has that certain je ne sais quoit about him, which literally translates to "i dont know what it is". its english meaning is meant to describe something indescribable or that has an aura of mystery.
while the phrase may or may not be foreign to you i definitely know the concept isnt because you are a die hard football fan. you undoubtedly have heard about the quarterback who has that it factor. they dont know what it is they just know he has it. one just recognizes it when they see it.
why do they call it "it"? can you imagine john madden saying brett favre has the je ne sais quoit factor?
theres no crying in baseball and there most certainly is no french in football. many people who are supposedly "in love with obama" simply feel he has "it".

..I do have to be honest and say that some of what "IT" is that Palin has...has nothing to do with what Obama could ever have...!!!

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 02:52 PM
I was actually ribbing you about a previous post where others were trying to figure out why people were gravitating to another candidate with "no experience"lol. i know (and remember). but palin doesnt have that "it" factor.

shes just hot. i can just imagine her legs crossed in a professional busines skirt, and a pair of pumps. i havent seen em, but see just appears to be one of those professional milfs where her gams are one of her sexiest attributes.

and those studious librarian glasses.... :lust:

i just think of van halens "too hot for teacher", anytime i think of her taking them off and letting her hair down with a flirtatious shake of her head.

lamberts-lost-tooth
09-01-2008, 03:01 PM
lol. i know (and remember). but palin doesnt have that "it" factor.

shes just hot. i can just imagine her legs crossed in a professional busines skirt, and a pair of pumps. i havent seen em, but see just appears to be one of those professional milfs where her gams are one of her sexiest attributes.

and those studious librarian glasses.... :lust:

i just think of van halens "too hot for teacher", anytime i think of her taking them off and letting her hair down with a flirtatious shake of her head.

The possibility of Cindy MCain and Palin in the White House at the same time probably has Bill Clinton in tears at the....lost chance.

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 03:37 PM
The possibility of Cindy MCain and Palin in the White House at the same time probably has Bill Clinton in tears at the....lost chance.:chuckle:

i dont think pimp'n clint'n is hurting in that dept. plus those fine ladies are atleast 20 years too old for him.

there is hugh hefner, and then there is my man "dollar in the g-string" Bill. :thumbsup:

cubanstogie
09-01-2008, 04:43 PM
mccain sure seems to think so. :naughty:

...or was palin voted in by the majority of the GOP party in the primaries? :noidea:

Could it be the fact that she has a 90 % approval rating in Alaska. Pretty hard to argue with that one. I'm sure you libs will come up with something negative though.

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 05:07 PM
Could it be the fact that she has a 90 % approval rating in Alaska. Pretty hard to argue with that one. I'm sure you libs will come up with something negative though.:link: i thought her approval rating was 80% :hunch:

funny how this fish keeps getting bigger and bigger. :fishing:

Ankorage has a population of around 260,000 people and 700-1000 moose ...
:chuckle:

with a total population of 600,000+ (not including moose), and with probably no more than 300,000+ being registered voters or taking part in these polls, im not putting too much credence into this 80% approval rating number. it is a joke. im more impressed that 80% of alaskans even know who the hell she is.

thats not "you libs" smack, just the facts. 300,000 is roughly one percent of our entire nation. :noidea:

atleast TWICE that much is automatically added or subtracted as the margin of error in a scientific poll.

anybody who has ever attended a high school prom knows that "arm candy" will make a person appear much more popular than they actually are.

listen, im not stupid, and i find it a slap in the face the right wing thinks america as a whole is. (as right as they may be, its still a slap in MY face, and hypocritical to boot).

as someone who understands simple math, i would be much more impressed with "Gov. Terminator" and a 10% approval rating in california.

cubanstogie
09-01-2008, 05:08 PM
:link: i thought her approval rating was 80% :hunch:

funny how this fish keeps getting bigger and bigger. :fishing:

:chuckle:

with a total population of 600,000 (not including moose), and with probably no more than 300,000 being registered voters or taking part in these polls, im not putting too much credence into this 80% approval rating number. it is a joke. im more impressed that 80% of alaskans even know who the hell she is.

thats not "you libs" smack, just the facts. 300,000 is roughly one percent of our entire nation. :noidea:

atleast that much is automatically added or subtracted as the margin of error in a scientific poll.

anybody who has ever attended a high school prom knows that "arm candy" will make a person appear much more popular than they actually are.

im not stupid, and i find it a slap in the face the right wing thinks america as a whole is (as right as they may be).

The Most Popular Governor
Alaska's Sarah Palin is the GOP's newest star.
by Fred Barnes
07/16/2007, Volume 012, Issue 41

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Juneau
The wipeout in the 2006 election left Republicans in such a state of dejection that they've overlooked the one shining victory in which a Republican star was born. The triumph came in Alaska where Sarah Palin, a politician of eye-popping integrity, was elected governor. She is now the most popular governor in America, with an approval rating in the 90s, and probably the most popular public official in any state.

cubanstogie
09-01-2008, 05:20 PM
:link: i thought her approval rating was 80% :hunch:

funny how this fish keeps getting bigger and bigger. :fishing:

:chuckle:

with a total population of 600,000+ (not including moose), and with probably no more than 300,000+ being registered voters or taking part in these polls, im not putting too much credence into this 80% approval rating number. it is a joke. im more impressed that 80% of alaskans even know who the hell she is.

thats not "you libs" smack, just the facts. 300,000 is roughly one percent of our entire nation. :noidea:

atleast that much is automatically added or subtracted as the margin of error in a scientific poll.

anybody who has ever attended a high school prom knows that "arm candy" will make a person appear much more popular than they actually are.

listen, im not stupid, and i find it a slap in the face the right wing thinks america as a whole is. (as right as they may be, its still a slap in MY face, and hypocritical to boot).

I don't care if it is a kindergarten class, 70, 80, or 90 % speaks for itself. She obviously served her state well. Not even Pelosi, Feinstein, or other libs in my extremely liberal state of CA even come close to those approval ratings. Not sure were you are going with the stupid comment, or why it is a slap in the face. A VP selection is obviously to gain votes, and I think McCain did that with the Palin selection.

cubanstogie
09-01-2008, 05:24 PM
Quote.
anybody who has ever attended a high school prom knows that "arm candy" will make a person appear much more popular than they actually are.

Funny you mention that, because when Obama announced he was running thats all people talked about was how articulate and good looking he was. Or does the arm cand y comment just apply to woman or republicans.

HometownGal
09-01-2008, 05:42 PM
Funny you mention that, because when Obama announced he was running thats all people talked about was how articulate and good looking he was. Or does the arm cand y comment just apply to woman or republicans.

Articluate? Yes. You can teach a parrot to be articulate.

Good looking? :horror:

I don't believe a candidate's physical appearance plays that big of a role in their election. If that was the case, both Obama and McCain would be lucky to get 10 votes each. Where "looks" are concerned, I wouldn't fork either of 'em off a horseshit pile. I don't care what a candidate looks like - I choose a candidate based on their platforms and how those platforms conform to my own beliefs and ideals. Didn't take me long to realize I was on the same page a lot more with J-Mac than I was with Obama.

Nixon looked like a bloodhound, Carter a peanut, GWB like Alfred E. Neuman, McCain like a rabid 'coon and Obama like an anorexic Curious George.

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 05:45 PM
I don't care if it is a kindergarten class, 70, 80, or 90 % speaks for itself. She obviously served her state well. Not even Pelosi, Feinstein, or other libs in my extremely liberal state of CA even come close to those approval ratings. Not sure were you are going with the stupid comment, or why it is a slap in the face. A VP selection is obviously to gain votes, and I think McCain did that with the Palin selection.thank God for Fred Barnes and on attached link to support your point.

the whopper keeps growing as the right scrambles to defend the pick. the fact of the matter is, her approval rating is so insignificant you cant even find accurate numbers when you google it.

youre right though. 60- 90% doesnt even matter when youre dealing with such a tiny portion of the ENTIRE nation.

hell, im pretty sure, if polled, 90% of alaskans would say the Iditarod should be a "sport" in the winter olymics along with seal clubbing and ice fishing.

and i will just sit back and laugh as anyone suggests palin isnt "arm candy" hell, hillary is much better looking than obama. at 70 years old, i'd say she looks pretty good with her waving blond hair, tight figure, and deep eyes of azure. :toofunny:

however the voting majority has spoke and didnt vote for "looks". they voted for change.... not sex appeal (something mccain hasnt had since his prison days).

:doh: did i just say that? :chuckle:

Texasteel
09-01-2008, 05:53 PM
thank God for Fred Barnes and on attached link to support your point.

the whopper keeps growing as the right scrambles to defend the pick. the fact of the matter is, her approval rating is so insignificant you cant even find accurate numbers when you google it.

youre right though. 60- 90% doesnt even matter when youre dealing with such a tiny portion of the ENTIRE nation.

hell, im pretty sure, if polled, 90% of alaskans would say the Iditarod should be a "sport" in the winter olymics along with seal clubbing and ice fishing.

and i will just sit back and laugh as anyone suggests palin isnt "arm candy" hell, hillary is much better looking than obama. at 70 years old, i'd say she looks pretty good with her waving blond hair, tight figure, and deep eyes of azure. :toofunny:

however the voting majority has spoke and didnt vote for "looks". they voted for change.... not sex appeal (something mccain hasnt had since his prison days).

:doh: did i just say that? :chuckle:


It seems to me that its the left that is scrambling to discredit to pick. She must scare the hell out of you.

HometownGal
09-01-2008, 05:59 PM
It seems to me that its the left that is scrambling to discredit to pick. She must scare the hell out of you.

:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit::hatsoff:

(Sorry, Tony, but that was the impression I got, as well. :wink02:)

revefsreleets
09-01-2008, 06:00 PM
I absolutely want a return of the government to the people. I have no political experience of any kind, and I can absolutely and unequivocally guarantee you that I would be more effective than 95% of the politicians in Washington. I'm incorruptible, beholden to no one, and would get both sides of every issue before I made my decision. And I'm not a lawyer, which is always a bonus!

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 06:14 PM
It seems to me that its the left that is scrambling to discredit to pick. She must scare the hell out of you.in the world of politics, turnabout is fairplay, and the right better have the stones to take it as much as they dished it out.

am i scared? not if mccain has another 4 years left in him. otherwise i would much rather take the lawyer (key word being LAW) as opposed to the journalist/ sports broadcaster.

for some slimy reason, casting my vote for palin feels like i might as well cast my vote for mark madden to be VP.

(but i aint skeered. shes hot and will be nice to look at :wink:)

again, this doesnt boil down to the lady herself as much as it does as the hypocracy of the pick. and that has been my stance ALL along.

Texasteel
09-01-2008, 06:51 PM
in the world of politics, turnabout is fairplay, and the right better have the stones to take it as much as they dished it out.

am i scared? not if mccain has another 4 years left in him. otherwise i would much rather take the lawyer (key word being LAW) as opposed to the journalist/ sports broadcaster.

for some slimy reason, casting my vote for palin feels like i might as well cast my vote for mark madden to be VP.

(but i aint skeered. shes hot and will be nice to look at :wink:)

again, this doesnt boil down to the lady herself as much as it does as the hypocracy of the pick. and that has been my stance ALL along.

Not sure what hypocrisy your talking about. Is it she doesn't like polar bear, or she's just eye candy. If it that she is inexperienced, she has done a bunch more with her time than Obama has done with his. On top of that the VP job can provide some on the job training, the Presidency does not.

We will agree on one thing, I hope she does all the public speaking.

Preacher
09-01-2008, 06:52 PM
in the world of politics, turnabout is fairplay, and the right better have the stones to take it as much as they dished it out.

.


Funny... I thought the right has been taking it for the last 4 years...

Now that they begin to dish it out... the left starts screaming.. I love it.

revefsreleets
09-01-2008, 06:54 PM
I like the choice more and more...the more I see the left rip it up, the more I realize how brilliant a choice it really was.

http://www.ohio.com/editorial/commentary/27711964.html

n Sarah Palin, a perfect pairing

By Nanette Everson

Published on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008

Let's face it. John McCain's a loner with a stern, ''it's-a-dangerous-world'' message and fairly cold eyes. He isn't charismatic. And no one can accuse him of being a sunny guy. In fact, he's better known for his short, hot temper.

So how's McCain going to overcome America's infatuation with Barack Obama, a man who has bewitched voters with his smile, enchanted youth with the novelty of his candidacy, and lured war-weary Americans with his message of ''change'' and promises of free, universal everything?

The answer is clear. McCain needs Alaska's Gov. Sarah Palin, who will connect with voters as an authentic American folk hero. First, as a governor she passes the competence test. American voters have shown again and again they will vote governors into the White House. There's Clinton. Carter. Bush the Younger. Reagan.

So why not Palin, a heartbeat away from the aged McCain?

But more important, she's the governor of the state that captures the imagination and embodies the authentic American folk narrative. Alaska is our last frontier. Remember Horace Greeley's ''Go west, young man, go west!'' Not to worry that this phrase is often wrongly attributed to Horatio Alger. Americans remember that the west is where freedom and opportunity still exist. The West is where optimism resides. Even if they don't think about it, Americans still feel it.

That's where Palin's personal biography will prevail. Palin is as continental west as west can be; and Alaska is a nice contrast to Obama's Hawaiian roots. Even better, Palin carries a gun! She hunts! I'll bet she can skin and process a deer in under 10 minutes. Take that al-Qaida!

Come to think of it, she might actually be able to hunt down Osama bin Laden. And America has loved hunters and deer slayers since at least 1823 when James Fenimore Cooper gave America its first universally accepted folk hero, the Deerslayer, in The Pioneers.

And then, there's the obvious fact that she's a woman. If McCain was going to pull from the Democratic middle-age female base that fueled Hillary Clinton's candidacy, he needed to look beyond the white male. Think of all the Clinton voters who supported Clinton simply because they thought she could crack the highest glass ceiling. Palin will attract these disaffected voters who are looking for someone to vote for other than Obama. And then there's the fact that Palin has five kids. Five. Including one who has Down syndrome. That shows voters that she's for real and can actually relate to the lives of real voters, people who love, feel and suffer.

It was important for McCain to pick a running mate who makes people feel better. Palin is as compelling, youthful and charismatic as McCain is not.

Her video clips remind you of Reagan's optimism. Her down-to-earth manner exudes the hope that Republicans need to win. We can almost imagine her on the cover of People magazine with her family gathered around her and her gun rack in the background.

Palin is the perfect complement for McCain and the perfect antidote to Obama.

Everson is a former White House counsel. This article was distributed by McClatchy Tribune News Service.

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 07:01 PM
I like the choice more and more...the more I see the left rip it up, the more I realize how brilliant a choice it really was.

http://www.ohio.com/editorial/commentary/27711964.html

.thats good and should provide you with a nice security blanket with your choice.

i havent seen much leftist "ripping up" as any available tv or reading time for me has been devoted to nfl cuts, college football, or the hurricaine. (sorry, hockey mom takes a back seat this week unless i am playing on these boards).

after all this board is the most credible source where i can find any info on her.

i still find it odd, i had too look up her college degree myself. *snicker* :chuckle:

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 07:05 PM
Funny... I thought the right has been taking it for the last 4 years...

Now that they begin to dish it out... the left starts screaming.. I love it.lol. the left has been cool, calm, and collected for the past 8 years. they even backed their prez going into war.

where is osama bin laden and where are the WMD? the backlash has been well deserved.

anyways it seems like the rush limbaugh righties who have been screaming the loudest. then again., it is rush and his 9 digit contract we are talkin about (so we can discredit that point)....

nevermind.

HometownGal
09-01-2008, 07:22 PM
lol. the left has been cool, calm, and collected for the past 8 years. they even backed their prez going into war.

where is osama bin laden and where are the WMD? the backlash has been well deserved.



LMAO!!! :toofunny: Stop it hipcheese - you're killin' me! :rofl:

Sure the left backed the Prez until it was revealed that they were given the same misinformation as GWB. I got vertigo watching them point their hypocritical fingers and backpedaling at a world-record breaking pace. :laughing:

While you're awaiting your answer, you could also ask the Demos where the WMD's and Bin Boy are - Clinton had a shot at nabbing both of those camel humping SOBs but took a pass.

revefsreleets
09-01-2008, 07:29 PM
Make no mistake about it: There are a TON of angry Clinton backers. Her and her husband's "endorsement" of Obama were hardly ringing and sincere ones, and there are a LOT of accounts of dissension and outright mutiny amongst her delegates, openly speaking against Obama at his own convention. Clinton's people are used to winning (like the Bungals and Cowboys, they'll use whatever means are necessary and available to win), and they are worse than Pats fans when they don't get their way.

They'll vote for McCain now, even if it's just for spite.

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 07:30 PM
LMAO!!! :toofunny: Stop it hipcheese - you're killin' me! :rofl:

Sure the left backed the Prez until it was revealed that they were given the same misinformation as GWB. I got vertigo watching them point their hypocritical fingers and backpedaling at a world-record breaking pace. :laughing:

While you're awaiting your answer, you could also ask the Demos where the WMD's and Bin Boy are - Clinton had a shot at nabbing both of those camel humping SOBs but took a pass.how can i blame clinton for not going on a wild goose chase for phantom wmd's in iraq?

he took his shots at bin laden and did what a prez should do as far as strikes against iraq are concerned. i.e. he covered bush sr's ass for not completing the job in the 1st place.

remember it is the 1st bush admin that antagonized bin laden, not clinton.

i just love how modern terrorism is still blamed on clinton.

but i guess since he got head in the oval, it makes him an easy target. everybody needs a scapegoat though, right? :wink:

millwalldavey
09-01-2008, 07:47 PM
Apparently she has a pregnant 17 y/o daughter....

revefsreleets
09-01-2008, 07:49 PM
how can i blame clinton for not going on a wild goose chase for phantom wmd's in iraq?

he took his shots at bin laden and did what a prez should do as far as strikes against iraq are concerned. i.e. he covered bush sr's ass for not completing the job in the 1st place.

remember it is the 1st bush admin that antagonized bin laden, not clinton.

i just love how modern terrorism is still blamed on clinton.

but i guess since he got head in the oval, it makes him an easy target. everybody needs a scapegoat though, right? :wink:

Woah...hold up a second here.

First off, Bush I was confined by the coalition goals in Iraq I. Going after Saddam was not amongst those goals. That, of course, was a strategic mistake, and a President with bigger balls (ie NOT Bush I and certainly not Clinton) would have just pulled a MacArthur and pushed on through and finished the job.

Secondly, Clinton was a profanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofa nityfilterprofanityfilter. He was scared to DEATH of public opinion, and let the tail wag his dog over and over again. His responses were always only "measured responses", nothing real or definitive. He essentially just played tit for tat, which solved nothing.

He maintained staus quo in re WMD, nothing more, nothing less. He was a security guard just continuing to do what was already set up to be done.

He ABSOLUTELY dropped the ball on bin Laden. That's beyond doubt. He and the CIA profanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofa nityfilterprofanityfilterfooted around and effed that whole situation up.

The problems are myriad, and there are a ton of reasons why things are as effed up as they are, but to exonerate Clinton is ridiculous. He was and is as cuplable as anyone regarding the current situation in the middle east.

And don't even get me started on the travesty he was 100% responsible for in Somalia.

Texasteel
09-01-2008, 08:03 PM
how can i blame clinton for not going on a wild goose chase for phantom wmd's in iraq?

he took his shots at bin laden and did what a prez should do as far as strikes against iraq are concerned. i.e. he covered bush sr's ass for not completing the job in the 1st place.

remember it is the 1st bush admin that antagonized bin laden, not clinton.

i just love how modern terrorism is still blamed on clinton.

but i guess since he got head in the oval, it makes him an easy target. everybody needs a scapegoat though, right? :wink:

How can you bash Bush Sr. for antagonizing Bin Laden and then complain that he didn't finish the job.
If Bush Sr. would have continued the war as you claim he should have, we would have had that World War the the left keeps cry about now. I can promise you that.
Terrorism did not magical appearer when Bush got into office. It has been around for a long time, yet Clinton seemed to be more consured as to whether Monica had gum in her mouth than trying to do something about it. Is Clinton totally to blame, probably not, but don't try to make him out as an Innocent bystander.

HometownGal
09-01-2008, 08:05 PM
how can i blame clinton for not going on a wild goose chase for phantom wmd's in iraq?

he took his shots at bin laden and did what a prez should do as far as strikes against iraq are concerned. i.e. he covered bush sr's ass for not completing the job in the 1st place.

remember it is the 1st bush admin that antagonized bin laden, not clinton.

i just love how modern terrorism is still blamed on clinton.

but i guess since he got head in the oval, it makes him an easy target. everybody needs a scapegoat though, right? :wink:

Spin baby spin!!! :rofl::wink02::laughing:

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/781/577670.JPG

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 08:14 PM
Spin baby spin!!! :rofl::wink02::laughing:

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/781/577670.JPG
did clinton not defend the no fly zone?

did he not take strikes when UN inspectors were shut out of iraq?

Did he not launch scuds at bin laden before most knew who bin laden even was?

was clinton involved in the 1st strike and occupation against/of iraq in 90-91?

would you care to explain how any of that is "spin" as opposed to posing a pretty picture of a top?


http://espn.go.com/i/editorial/2006/0518/photo/ben_roethlisberger_cheese2_275.jpg

revefsreleets
09-01-2008, 08:20 PM
No Fly Zone = security guard. The guy at Wal-Mart could have just as easily said "yes, continue the existing policy"

Tomahawk strikes are "measured response". And when you are dealing with a regime that has no value for human life, and has endless resources, missile strikes are like mosquito bites. Useless.

EVERYONE in DC power circles knew who bin laden was. And his missiles attacks were another joke. Bad and old intel from the CIA and all the strikes were so telegraphed and delayed due to being mired in red tape that they had no chance of succeeding.

Clinton was too busy banging secretaries in the great state of Arkansas to be doing much else in 90.

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 08:48 PM
No Fly Zone = security guard. The guy at Wal-Mart could have just as easily said "yes, continue the existing policy"

Tomahawk strikes are "measured response". And when you are dealing with a regime that has no value for human life, and has endless resources, missile strikes are like mosquito bites. Useless.

EVERYONE in DC power circles knew who bin laden was. And his missiles attacks were another joke. Bad and old intel from the CIA and all the strikes were so telegraphed and delayed due to being mired in red tape that they had no chance of succeeding.

Clinton was too busy banging secretaries in the great state of Arkansas to be doing much else in 90.al quaeda has endless resources? :sofunny:... (due to actual reliable intelligence we only missed him by an hour)

but thanks anyways for helping to show that anything i posted wasnt "spin".

facts are facts.

btw the guy at wal mart woulda probably said, "lets not go to war with iraq and declare an "axis of evil"".

but to get this thread back on topic we should really ask ourselves "What Would Palin Do"?

scary.

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 09:00 PM
The problems are myriad, and there are a ton of reasons why things are as effed up as they are, but to exonerate Clinton is ridiculous. He was and is as cuplable as anyone regarding the current situation in the middle east.
.

who the hell is exonerating him? i simply responded to this-

Clinton had a shot at nabbing both of those camel humping SOBs but took a pass.



please follow the thread.

so bush I gets a pass for following UN protocol, and clinton is demonized for not having the balls to attacK and "finish the job"?

and bush II is lauded? excuse me while i continue to LMAO at the hypocracy.

anyways, paldin is hot and by that, should do mccain good.

revefsreleets
09-01-2008, 09:05 PM
Iraq had endless resources (although bin Laden was still receiving money from his family, and, um, they weren't exactly broke). Or are you saying that Iraq and al queda WERE tied together now?

Clinton DID have a shot at nailing bin Laden. Several in fact. He himmed and hawed and gathered more facts and thought about what it all meant and....POOF! Opportunity lost.

And that's a fact, Jack.

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 09:15 PM
Iraq had endless resources (although bin Laden was still receiving money from his family, and, um, they weren't exactly broke). Or are you saying that Iraq and al queda WERE tied together now?

Clinton DID have a shot at nailing bin Laden. Several in fact. He himmed and hawed and gathered more facts and thought about what it all meant and....POOF! Opportunity lost.

And that's a fact, Jack.im sure that is something somebody like LITP would contend is EXACTLY what i am saying.

even though i posed my question with a question mark, (which in english means i was questioning your statement), :hunch: as opposed to making a declaration.

of course al gayda and iraq werent tied. even sadaam thought they were weakling camel turd pushers.

Preacher
09-01-2008, 09:43 PM
Apparently she has a pregnant 17 y/o daughter....

And???

Your point?

So much for the party of acceptance and free love... Or is the left just pissed she didn't kill the child?

Oh wait... It is neither... It is an offshoot to the dems throwing #%#% against the wall and seeing what will stick. The latest....

the down-syndrome baby is the daughters... and Palin took the child to cover the pregnancy... Now the daughter is faking being pregnant so that she COULDNT supposedly have had the down syndrome child... but the left is expecting the girl to have a miscarriage.

Yeah, thats right...

here is ONE of the links... just do a search to find how many are saying this...

BUt how DARE I questions a SLIP OF PAPER being stolen from a wall... but this? Sure.. NOT A PROBLEM.

The dems are descendeding into utter dispicableness on this one.

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-69834

MACH1
09-01-2008, 09:44 PM
did clinton not defend the no fly zone?

did he not take strikes when UN inspectors were shut out of iraq?

Did he not launch scuds at bin laden before most knew who bin laden even was?

was clinton involved in the 1st strike and occupation against/of iraq in 90-91?

would you care to explain how any of that is "spin" as opposed to posing a pretty picture of a top?




Um...Clinton had bin laden in his sights on the ground and refused to pull the trigger right before he left office. FWIW

fansince'76
09-01-2008, 09:48 PM
Wow....please chill a bit here folks. Thanks.

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 09:51 PM
BUt how DARE I questions a SLIP OF PAPER being stolen from a wall... but this? Sure.. NOT A PROBLEM.

The dems are descendeding into utter dispicableness on this one.

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-69834
c'mon preacher. nobody demonized you for the wailing wall thread. i think i was about the only one (plus 1 other) representin the left, who even participated in that thread, and you know i respect you too much to suggest you shouldnt even dare to question a prayer slip being stolen from the wall (as absurd as that suggestion may be).

Preacher
09-01-2008, 09:59 PM
c'mon preacher. nobody demonized you for the wailing wall thread. i think i was about the only one (plus 1 other) representin the left, who even participated in that thread, and you know i respect you too much to suggest you shouldnt even dare to question a prayer slip being stolen from the wall (as absurd as that suggestion may be).

Come on Tone... take it with the flare and overstatement due a good baptist preacher... (or AG)


pQKfxuXWXDw

revefsreleets
09-01-2008, 10:10 PM
Woah...hold up a second here.

First off, Bush I was confined by the coalition goals in Iraq I. Going after Saddam was not amongst those goals. That, of course, was a strategic mistake, and a President with bigger balls (ie NOT Bush I and certainly not Clinton) would have just pulled a MacArthur and pushed on through and finished the job.

Secondly, Clinton was a profanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofa nityfilterprofanityfilter. He was scared to DEATH of public opinion, and let the tail wag his dog over and over again. His responses were always only "measured responses", nothing real or definitive. He essentially just played tit for tat, which solved nothing.

He maintained staus quo in re WMD, nothing more, nothing less. He was a security guard just continuing to do what was already set up to be done.

He ABSOLUTELY dropped the ball on bin Laden. That's beyond doubt. He and the CIA profanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofa nityfilterprofanityfilterfooted around and effed that whole situation up.

The problems are myriad, and there are a ton of reasons why things are as effed up as they are, but to exonerate Clinton is ridiculous. He was and is as cuplable as anyone regarding the current situation in the middle east.

And don't even get me started on the travesty he was 100% responsible for in Somalia.

I'm tossing my own post back up, and mentioning the article about Palin again. It's a good lawyer trick to try and break a complex argument down by taking one or two elements and scrutinizing them, but the way to overcome that is to continually present the entire argument again.

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 10:10 PM
Um...Clinton had bin laden in his sights on the ground and refused to pull the trigger right before he left office. FWIWintelligence says we missed him by 1 hour. the same intelligence had us missing sadaam by 1 hour w/ our 5oo lb bunker busters in the 2nd war w/ iraq. it wasnt untill we had boot son the ground until we were able to pull hussein out of the spider hole, and without 9-11, clinton was uncapable of putting boots on the ground.

or do all the "hawks" suggest we declare war for the cole bombing? yeah, thats how it works. :noidea:

personally, i'd prefer to launch a nuke at whoever looks at us in the wrong way, but thats why i have decided to not become a public official.

revefsreleets
09-01-2008, 10:14 PM
That's the same intelligence that said Iraq had tons of WMD's. You can't have it both ways...if it's suspect intelligence, it's suspect intelligence. You can't use it only when it works for your argument...

millwalldavey
09-01-2008, 10:22 PM
And???

Your point?



My point is there are apparently some Conservatives who want to preach their values to all of us, but can't quite keep a lid on things going on in their own homes.

I personally do not care what she does with it... but when the subject of teen pregnancy comes up and they try to throw a conservative spiel at us wrapped in a bible, the fox best smell her own hole.

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 10:24 PM
That's the same intelligence that said Iraq had tons of WMD's. You can't have it both ways...if it's suspect intelligence, it's suspect intelligence. You can't use it only when it works for your argument...
it wanst my initaial argumen, although spin and deflection works well in ALL instances, right?

im not the one who brought clinton into this discussion (and seriously cant even figure out why he or his policies is even a part of it).

:noidea:

btw tons of wmd vs. no wmd's is a far cry from missing a spider who crawls across the desert (at speed by habit) by just an hour. sorry if you cant differentiate the difference. (sadaam and osama actually existed).

Preacher
09-01-2008, 10:25 PM
My point is there are apparently some Conservatives who want to preach their values to all of us, but can't quite keep a lid on things going on in their own homes.

I personally do not care what she does with it... but when the subject of teen pregnancy comes up and they try to throw a conservative spiel at us wrapped in a bible, the fox best smell her own hole.


Um, find where she preached her values to you please.... or McCain for that reason.

Sure is amazing how open mindedness can come across as so closed minded.

millwalldavey
09-01-2008, 10:27 PM
Um, find where she preached her values to you please.... or McCain for that reason.

Sure is amazing how open mindedness can come across as so closed minded.

Call it anticipation. I'm more open-minded than anyone you'll ever meet... but past experience teaches me what to expect from people like this.

cubanstogie
09-01-2008, 10:31 PM
thank God for Fred Barnes and on attached link to support your point.

the whopper keeps growing as the right scrambles to defend the pick. the fact of the matter is, her approval rating is so insignificant you cant even find accurate numbers when you google it.

youre right though. 60- 90% doesnt even matter when youre dealing with such a tiny portion of the ENTIRE nation.

hell, im pretty sure, if polled, 90% of alaskans would say the Iditarod should be a "sport" in the winter olymics along with seal clubbing and ice fishing.

and i will just sit back and laugh as anyone suggests palin isnt "arm candy" hell, hillary is much better looking than obama. at 70 years old, i'd say she looks pretty good with her waving blond hair, tight figure, and deep eyes of azure. :toofunny:

however the voting majority has spoke and didnt vote for "looks". they voted for change.... not sex appeal (something mccain hasnt had since his prison days).

:doh: did i just say that? :chuckle:

You can make lame excuses all day long, like most liberals. Its a shame that you libs are intimidated by good looking women. Probably because most libs aren't. This lady doesn't need looks, that is just a bonus. Ripping on Alaskans is typical lib stuff, just like Obams ripping on red necks in small towns a couple of months ago. I respect people interested in iditarod and ice fishing more than people who want food stamps, to wed their gay lover for financial purposes, and to kill a fetus instead of holding themselves accountable(heaven for bid) for getting a job, paying for their food, and having and raising a child when they get pregnant. Blame other people for their actions. No jobs, Bush's fault. Got pregnant, couldn't afford protection, we'll just have the government pay for our abortion. Again the list goes on with you libs.

Fact is Palin stole Obamas thunder and you guys are jealous. I love the pick, although it wouldn't matter if he picked Mickey Mouse, because I would never vote for a liberal who is for partial birth abortion, anti death penalty, socialism, raising taxes and is soft on crime. You ask for the link that shows 90 percent, then you make excuses. Somehow I think the glass is always half empty with you.

fansince'76
09-01-2008, 10:37 PM
Look, I asked nicely once. Cool it, or the thread will be locked.

cubanstogie
09-01-2008, 10:55 PM
Look, I asked nicely once. Cool it, or the thread will be locked.

Sorry, I hadn't read far enough to see the first warning. I swore I wasn't going to talk politics on this board. No willpower.

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 10:56 PM
You can make lame excuses all day long, like most liberals. Its a shame that you libs are intimidated by good looking women. Probably because most libs aren't. This lady doesn't need looks, that is just a bonus. Ripping on Alaskans is typical lib stuff, just like Obams ripping on red necks in small towns a couple of months ago. I respect people interested in iditarod and ice fishing more than people who want food stamps, to wed their gay lover for financial purposes, and to kill a fetus instead of holding themselves accountable(heaven for bid) for getting a job, paying for their food, and having and raising a child when they get pregnant. Blame other people for their actions. No jobs, Bush's fault. Got pregnant, couldn't afford protection, we'll just have the government pay for our abortion. Again the list goes on with you libs.

Fact is Palin stole Obamas thunder and you guys are jealous. I love the pick, although it wouldn't matter if he picked Mickey Mouse, because I would never vote for a liberal who is for partial birth abortion, anti death penalty, socialism, raising taxes and is soft on crime. You ask for the link that shows 90 percent, then you make excuses. Somehow I think the glass is always half empty with you.

:chuckle:

"ride a horse save a cowboy"

"kill a dog, save a baby"

whatever.

call me a "lib" all you want. yes, i am registered as a democrat and if tossing insults to some random person on a MB makes you feel more secure with your vote, then i am more than happy to provide that small amount of public service. :cheers:

you voting for mickey (or minnie in this case) mouse says enough for me. :thumbsup:

cubanstogie
09-01-2008, 11:09 PM
:chuckle:

"ride a horse save a cowboy"

"kill a dog, save a baby"

whatever.

call me a "lib" all you want. yes, i am registered as a democrat and if tossing insults to some random person on a MB makes you feel more secure with your vote, then i am more than happy to provide that small amount of public service. :cheers:

you voting for mickey (or minnie in this case) mouse says enough for me. :thumbsup:

Thanks, I know I feel better. Problem is I never called you any name. My original statement was maybe Palin chose for 90 percent rating. Which you seemed to make every excuse in the book why it wasn't a credible number. You want a link, I give it to you and you still make excuses. Then you rip on Alaskans similar to Obama months ago. Those are facts. I made generalizations toward libs, that was not fair to all libs no attacks on you. Just stating my opinion. I just happen to notice that you seemed to come up with excuses for everything and try to throw in sarcasm to make you points.

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 11:23 PM
Thanks, I know I feel better. Problem is I never called you any name. My original statement was maybe Palin chose for 90 percent rating. Which you seemed to make every excuse in the book why it wasn't a credible number. You want a link, I give it to you and you still make excuses. Then you rip on Alaskans similar to Obama months ago. Those are facts. I made generalizations toward libs, that was not fair to all libs no attacks on you. Just stating my opinion. I just happen to notice that you seemed to come up with excuses for everything and try to throw in sarcasm to make you points.thats fine. :drink:

and my opinon was that half of all alaskans who made up said poll made up no more than one percent of the total american population.

i dont feel i am making up any excuses. on second thought i say i am offereing up simple factual math as opposed to an opinion.

i didnt rip on alsakans, i just aknowledged the well known fact that there is power in numbers (just check alaskas electoral vote count)

fansince'76
09-01-2008, 11:28 PM
Sorry, I hadn't read far enough to see the first warning. I swore I wasn't going to talk politics on this board. No willpower.

No problem talking politics or disagreeing with others here, but it becomes a problem when it devolves to borderline personal attacks. I noticed your followup post was a lot more civil, so thank you. :drink:

Preacher
09-01-2008, 11:37 PM
Call it anticipation. I'm more open-minded than anyone you'll ever meet... but past experience teaches me what to expect from people like this.


And past experience teaches me what to expect from people like Obama/Biden...

Don't trust what they say... they will raise YOUR taxes, not just "on the rich" they will weaken the nations military and open us for attack.....

boy stereotyping can be fun!

Preacher
09-01-2008, 11:45 PM
intelligence says we missed him by 1 hour. the same intelligence had us missing sadaam by 1 hour w/ our 5oo lb bunker busters in the 2nd war w/ iraq. it wasnt untill we had boot son the ground until we were able to pull hussein out of the spider hole, and without 9-11, clinton was uncapable of putting boots on the ground.

or do all the "hawks" suggest we declare war for the cole bombing? yeah, thats how it works. :noidea:

personally, i'd prefer to launch a nuke at whoever looks at us in the wrong way, but thats why i have decided to not become a public official.

Actually, yes, including democrat hawks like Bob Kerrey amongst others, who termed it specifically, "An act of war against the United States."

Yes, an attack on a U.S. Warship is an act of war for which war can legally be declared.

tony hipchest
09-01-2008, 11:54 PM
Thanks, I know I feel better. Problem is I never called you any name..sorry, i just cant let this go. to ignore it would make me out to be the liar, and i gotta stand by my integrity-


Quote:
Originally Posted by cubanstogie
You can make lame excuses all day long, like most liberals. Its a shame that you libs are intimidated by good looking women.


:confused: me??? intimidated by a good looking woman???? :laughing:

hell, i welcome them on any occasion. :flap: :yummy: :naughty:

Preacher
09-02-2008, 12:00 AM
sorry, i just cant let this go. to ignore it would make me out to be the liar, and i gotta stand by my integrity-



:confused: me??? intimidated by a good looking woman???? :laughing:

hell, i welcome them on any occasion. :flap: :yummy: :naughty:

:buttkick:

tony hipchest
09-02-2008, 12:10 AM
this is great. while everyone still keeps ignoring the fact taht the rep veep candidate was nominated for nothing more than being a sex object to garner cheap votes i will still defend my stance.Actually, yes, including democrat hawks like Bob Kerrey amongst others, who termed it specifically, "An act of war against the United States."

Yes, an attack on a U.S. Warship is an act of war for which war can legally be declared.farting on capitol hill can probably be declared as a legal act of war. and what about mcveigh, dylan and eric? did we declare war on them? atleast we know they are dead.

osama.....? who knows?

tony hipchest
09-02-2008, 12:15 AM
:buttkick::laughing:

"i cannot tell a lie" preach, and the truth be da troof.

Preacher
09-02-2008, 01:07 AM
this is great. while everyone still keeps ignoring the fact taht the rep veep candidate was nominated for nothing more than being a sex object to garner cheap votes

Really? I thought she was nominated because she was able to cut taxes, save money, stand up to "big oil" and stand on her principles of pro-life in about the same time in office than Obama was able to vote present 160 plus times. Amazing how a woman's accomplishments means nothing when she is pretty. I guess the glass ceiling still does exist.

i will still defend my stance.farting on capitol hill can probably be declared as a legal act of war. and what about mcveigh, dylan and eric? did we declare war on them? atleast we know they are dead.

Hmmm... according to this article... and many others like it... It seems that Bush finally DID declare war on the originators of the Terry Nichols/Timothy McVeigh bombing.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110002217

Far-fetched... How would a Extreme fascist nutcase and an Arab muslim ever get along? History shows this link has existed since WWI.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=132

that would ALSO explain McVeigh's feelings here... putting them in a new light.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=422


Fact is, the link between fascism and Islam is VERY strong.

JPPT1974
09-02-2008, 02:33 AM
I am all for Palin as despite having skeletons in her closet.
She has overcomed a lot. Yet, manages to be cool, calm, and collective.

fansince'76
09-02-2008, 08:44 AM
I am all for Palin as despite having skeletons in her closet.

The political vultures on both sides of the aisle could find dirt on Mother Teresa if they had to.

lamberts-lost-tooth
09-02-2008, 08:50 AM
The political vultures on both sides of the aisle could find dirt on Mother Teresa if they had to.

I think there is about 6 foot of dirt on Mother Teresa..........Wow.....I am going straight to Hell.

revefsreleets
09-02-2008, 08:54 AM
Yeah, where did this "she's nominated because she looks good" come from?

http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/bok/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/080902boklores.jpg

tony hipchest
09-02-2008, 10:40 AM
c'mon. i rely on you guys for my information and all i get is cartoons that make her look like that rootin, tootin, shootin, cowboy cheney.

how come nobody told me she was still breeding? how much materinity leave does one get while in the white house? who takes over for the VP if she is giving birth? that would be the secretary of state, right? can she sell the 1st photos to People Magazine?

personally i feel bad for her having to answer internet rumors that her daughter born in april was really that of her daughter (i assume the same 17 year old daughter who is now pregnant). i really dont care that she has a teen giving birth out of wedlock. shit happens. but it is a far cry from the maturity and professionalism we are used to from the bush twins and chelsea.

now i know, those were presidents daughters, and palin is just the vice president (already right?).

but i still have to look at EVERY vice president as the potential president of the united states. think bush I or even gore. (save yourself the pain and dont think cheney).

does white house staff include a nanny or does the president have to put that on their own tab?

lamberts-lost-tooth
09-02-2008, 10:58 AM
Now,,,HERE is how ya do it....

c'mon. i rely on you guys for my information and all i get is cartoons that make her look like that rootin, tootin, shootin, cowboy cheney.



Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than Palin OR Cheneys guns.:wantsome:

how come nobody told me she was still breeding? how much materinity leave does one get while in the white house?

Hey..look at it this way...sex in the White House between Husband/Wife...(or boyfriend/girlfriend)...is still a step up from sex between President/Intern..:hug:


can she sell the 1st photos to People Magazine?

Unfortunately, the pecking order for People magazine is for couples and goes something like this...

1) Angelina/Brad
2) Tom/Katie
3) Obama/CNN

it is a far cry from the maturity and professionalism we are used to from the bush twins and chelsea.

True...the immaturity we saw in the Clinton Whitehouse usually involved the parents.

but i still have to look at EVERY vice president as the potential president of the united states. think bush I or even gore. (save yourself the pain and dont think cheney).

Why is it that people look at the Republican VP and see a potential Preseident...but fail to look at Obamas short comming and see a ....potential President:hunch:

does white house staff include a nanny or does the president have to put that on their own tab

Fair guestion...if Arkansas State Troopers can be used to get dates on the public dime...a nanny should be a no-brainer.

revefsreleets
09-02-2008, 11:00 AM
The bottom line? It's a solid choice, she's from outside the beltway and will appeal to voters like me who want a little bit of a maverick in the white house, and she has broad appeal to several voting blocs that McCain was simply not connecting with.

Barring any live boys or dead girls, this locks up the election for McCain IMO.

millwalldavey
09-02-2008, 12:47 PM
Far-fetched... How would a Extreme fascist nutcase and an Arab muslim ever get along? History shows this link has existed since WWI.



Indeed. There are links between radical muslim groups and racist skinhead organizations both here and (especially) abroad. Scandinavian groups such as H.A.T. (White Aryan Terror) have commonly been hired out as security at radical muslim speakings.

Many hardline white power groups often link Hamas, Hezbolah and other radical muslim groups on their websites. I guess they can overlook skin color in favor of a common dislike of Jews.

I wonder how long something like that can last however.

Preacher
09-02-2008, 02:21 PM
Indeed. There are links between radical muslim groups and racist skinhead organizations both here and (especially) abroad. Scandinavian groups such as H.A.T. (White Aryan Terror) have commonly been hired out as security at radical muslim speakings.

Many hardline white power groups often link Hamas, Hezbolah and other radical muslim groups on their websites. I guess they can overlook skin color in favor of a common dislike of Jews.

I wonder how long something like that can last however.

Right up until the time they take over... Nazi's in the west and muslims in Asia and the east.

I really do beleive there is a link between Iran, Iraq, etc. etc. and the American white power groups... and I do beleive that if dug far enough back... there are links between those and what happened in Oklahoma... I would also not be shocked to find 2nd or 3rd hand help between the white power groups and 9-11.

Hammer67
09-02-2008, 03:33 PM
Extremists...just disgust me. They must not have been loved enough as children.

Preacher
09-02-2008, 04:00 PM
Well..

I think this thread has effectively been killed.

tony hipchest
09-02-2008, 06:19 PM
think again. looks like mccain is having to answer questions if he did due diligence.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080902/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin;_ylt=Alr.NfKq7F.r_n_cVaOXOJupg9IF

Asked about whether Palin's background was thoroughly checked out before he selected her, McCain told reporters in Philadelphia: "The vetting process was completely thorough and I'm grateful for the results."

Palin underwent a "full and complete" background examination before McCain chose her as his running mate, Culvahouse said. Asked whether everything that came up as a possible red flag during the review already has been made public, he said: "I think so. Yeah, I think so. Correct."

McCain's campaign has been trying to tamp down questions about whether the Arizona senator's team adequately researched his surprise vice presidential selection.

Since McCain publicly disclosed his running mate on Friday, the notion of a shoddy, rushed review has been stoked repeatedly.
doesnt sound so sure...

First, a campaign-issued timeline said McCain initially met Palin in February, then held one phone conversation with her last week before inviting her to Arizona, where he met with her a second time and offered her the job Thursday.wow. was she offered the job after just 2 conversations???

Shortly after Palin was named to the ticket, McCain's campaign dispatched a team of a dozen communications operatives and lawyers to Alaska. That fueled speculation that a comprehensive examination of Palin's record and past was incomplete and being done only after she was placed on the ticket.

Culvahouse disclosed details of his examination in a half-hour interview with the AP.

First, a team of some 25 people working under Culvahouse culled information from public sources for Palin and other prospective candidates without their knowledge. For all, news reports, speeches, financial and tax return disclosures, litigation, investigations, ethical charges, marriages and divorces were reviewed.

For Palin specifically, the team studied online archives of the state's largest newspapers, including the Anchorage Daily News, but didn't request paper archives for Palin's hometown newspaper. "I made the decision that we could not get it done and maintain secrecy," Culvahouse said.

so the mccain camp can go digging into peoples past but the media is blasted for doing the same? for those who said a persons past or private life shouldnt matter it certainly does. the republican presidential candidate even thinks so.

plus if she was a member of a political party calling for the secession of alaska from the unites states, isnt it our right to know? its definitely something worth looking into.

Palin's husband was member of third party

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080902/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_politics;_ylt=Ag1Pjyd5K60XsUrTg7wrvn5h24 cA

MACH1
09-02-2008, 06:37 PM
Isn't it football season yet. :nana:

fansince'76
09-02-2008, 06:40 PM
Isn't it football season yet. :nana:

Yeah, but it's also presidential election season too, which is kind of a first for this board. This board was in its infancy during the last one, so this is kind of uncharted waters we're going through now. :hunch:

MACH1
09-02-2008, 06:45 PM
Yeah, but it's also presidential election season too, which is kind of a first for this board. This board was in its infancy during the last one, so this is kind of uncharted waters we're going through now. :hunch:

True...I guess its kind of fun watching all the spin going on in here. :chuckle:

stillers4me
09-02-2008, 06:50 PM
I think it would be refreshing to have someone completely outside of the loop and not one of the "beltway boys club." She just might surprise everybody.

Or not. :noidea:

Atlanta Dan
09-02-2008, 07:02 PM
Anyways... I don't think the Obama bashing threads have yet equaled AD's bush bashing threads, let alone all the others, so I think the dems are still ahead of the game on this board!

:wink02:

That still bothers you? Glad to hear it:sofunny:

With regard to what I assume is the primary source of your discontent, if you ever have the inclination to read The Terror Presidency by Jack Goldsmith (fomer head of DOJ OLC before he got run off for challenging John Yoo's blessing of "enhanced interrogation" techniques) or "The Dark Side" by Jane Mayer you might see where I was coming from on the threads that I assume most incensed you.

Coming from someone who deplores such terms as spin you might want to consider using something other than bashing so frequently as your retort to a point of view to which you take exception

revefsreleets
09-02-2008, 08:24 PM
think again. looks like mccain is having to answer questions if he did due diligence.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080902/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin;_ylt=Alr.NfKq7F.r_n_cVaOXOJupg9IF



doesnt sound so sure...

wow. was she offered the job after just 2 conversations???



so the mccain camp can go digging into peoples past but the media is blasted for doing the same? for those who said a persons past or private life shouldnt matter it certainly does. the republican presidential candidate even thinks so.

plus if she was a member of a political party calling for the secession of alaska from the unites states, isnt it our right to know? its definitely something worth looking into.

Palin's husband was member of third party

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080902/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_politics;_ylt=Ag1Pjyd5K60XsUrTg7wrvn5h24 cA

You've completely missed the point of the the vetting process. It's not a "dig" by McCain, it's a simple background check. But it's also more...it's exploring what the press will dig up as well, so they'll be prepared to handle it. The problem isn't that she wasn't vetted thoroughly enough, the problem is that she was vetted properly and there was NOTHING OF ANY SUBSTANCE to report, but the press made that nothing into something. They didn't report news, they libeled a perfectly honorable women in a journalistic hatchet job with the sole intention of undermining the McCain candidacy. It's all implied and indirect, but it's slimy and sleazy all the same...

Preacher
09-02-2008, 08:32 PM
That still bothers you? Glad to hear it:sofunny:

With regard to what I assume is the primary source of your discontent, if you ever have the inclination to read The Terror Presidency by Jack Goldsmith (fomer head of DOJ OLC before he got run off for challenging John Yoo's blessing of "enhanced interrogation" techniques) or "The Dark Side" by Jane Mayer you might see where I was coming from on the threads that I assume most incensed you.

Coming from someone who deplores such terms as spin you might want to consider using something other than bashing so frequently as your retort to a point of view to which you take exception

Thanks for the lecture teacher... oooh oooooh (hand raised)... Teacher teacher... I smell something stinky.... but I can't say in class what I think it is... but it happened DURING your post!!!!

revefsreleets
09-02-2008, 08:45 PM
Thanks for the lecture teacher... oooh oooooh (hand raised)... Teacher teacher... I smell something stinky.... but I can't say in class what I think it is... but it happened RIGHT AFTER your post!!!!

Errr...my post happened right after his post...

tony hipchest
09-02-2008, 08:54 PM
You've completely missed the point of the the vetting process. It's not a "dig" by McCain, it's a simple background check. But it's also more...it's exploring what the press will dig up as well, so they'll be prepared to handle it. The problem isn't that she wasn't vetted thoroughly enough, the problem is that she was vetted properly and there was NOTHING OF ANY SUBSTANCE to report, but the press made that nothing into something. They didn't report news, they libeled a perfectly honorable women in a journalistic hatchet job with the sole intention of undermining the McCain candidacy. It's all implied and indirect, but it's slimy and sleazy all the same...
i didnt miss the point. its called "due diligence". if the mccain camp can do it on behalf of their party then so can the media on behalf of the american public. i swear, mccain supporters whine about the media as much as his camp does.

what is libelous about her having a 17 year old child who is going to give birth out of wedlock or a husband who had a dwi? or are you confusing credible news sites with internet blogs who have an agenda.

i think you are mising the point that the media has as much right to look into the background of a potential political figure with a position as high as VP as mccain does.

i dont see this phantom smear campaign the mccain camp keeps crying about. even obama told his potential voters that thsi stuff shouldnt be taken into account. looks like the mccain supporters who are most worried about it.

the left seem much more forgiving of adulterous affairs, dwi's, and teen children having children out of wedlock than the right. :chuckle: i think the left can admit theyre not perfect moreso than the right.

how's rush's "hillbilly heroin" addiction coming along?

revefsreleets
09-02-2008, 09:12 PM
Thanks for proving my point. Somehow, you took exactly what I said and tried to make it sound like it was different than it really was...which is exactly the point I'm making about the press.

Vetting means discovery, or fact finding...they dig dirt so they know if the candidate is up to snuff but also to trump the press so they can't drop a bomb on the candidate.

Here's where you miss the boat. McCain properly and thoroughly vetted Palin. What he never anticipated was that the press dug up that same nothing he found and MADE it something. You even bought into it...

A pregnant daughter? A 22 year old DUI? That wasn't even hers? A routine probe over a justified dismissal?

Are you KIDDING me?

Preacher
09-02-2008, 09:18 PM
Well...

if it is ok to throw everything against the wall to see what sticks... including horrible internet rumors about a Down-syndrome baby...

Might as well let it go both ways....

Has anyone heard about this?

According to the way the press works... It just HAS to be true.... (I will type an apology in 2 or 3 days... after it has made the impression I want... or I will just let it die with the thread).

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/03/05/pic30814.jpg

Atlanta Dan
09-02-2008, 09:23 PM
Well...

if it is ok to throw everything against the wall to see what sticks... including horrible internet rumors about a Down-syndrome baby...

Might as well let it go both ways....

Has anyone heard about this?

According to the way the press works... It just HAS to be true.... (I will type an apology in 2 or 3 days... after it has made the impression I want... or I will just let it die with the thread).

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/03/05/pic30814.jpg

Stay classy Preacher

revefsreleets
09-02-2008, 09:23 PM
Difference is this IS some blogger somewhere...the subtle and implied smear on Palin was coming from no less than the New York Times.

X-Terminator
09-02-2008, 09:43 PM
November 4 can't get here soon enough for me.

Preacher
09-02-2008, 09:53 PM
Stay classy Preacher

Just were is that sarcasm smiley when you need it???


The POINT....

is that just because it is OUT THERE.... doesn't mean it is TRUE.

Yet when it gets out there.... it STILL affects public opinion.


Classy? Like attacking Palins family on who is the mother of a Down-syndrome baby?

Least my was done in jest to prove a different point. What is done to Palin is downright meanness.

Preacher
09-02-2008, 09:53 PM
Difference is this IS some blogger somewhere...the subtle and implied smear on Palin was coming from no less than the New York Times.


Thanks for catching the INTENT of the post.