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tony hipchest
09-16-2008, 12:49 PM
Adviser says McCain helped create the BlackBerry

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080916/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_blackberry;_ylt=AqKwJ0Uyt3DxNAxgEGeuI9th24c A

MIAMI - Move over, Al Gore. You may lay claim to the Internet, but John McCain helped create the BlackBerry.

At least that's the contention of a top McCain policy adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin. Waving his BlackBerry personal digital assistant and citing McCain's work as a senator, he told reporters Tuesday, "You're looking at the miracle that John McCain helped create."

A McCain aide later dismissed the remark as "a boneheaded joke by a staffer."

McCain has acknowledged that he doesn't know how to use a computer and can't send e-mail, one of the BlackBerry's prime functions.


i shoulda figured. :rolleyes: the mccainanites arent the sharpest tools in the shed.

In a statement, Democratic candidate Barack Obama's campaign spokesman Bill Burton said: "If John McCain hadn't said that 'the fundamentals of our economy are strong' on the day of one of our nation's worst financial crises, the claim that he invented the BlackBerry would have been the most preposterous thing said all week.":laughing:

so, hows everyones portfolios doing? worst day on the market since terrorists struck on 9/11.

stlrtruck
09-16-2008, 01:05 PM
When will the idiots behind the idiots learn to shut up? And that goes for both parties.

tony hipchest
09-16-2008, 01:07 PM
speaking of the issues, i thought it was the mccain camp that had all the plans and answers :noidea:

Obama says McCain is 'passing the buck' on economy

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080916/ap_on_el_pr/candidates_economy_16;_ylt=AsPMK8.Q4uP1A45LWnFWrFB h24cA

GOLDEN, Colo. - Republican presidential candidate John McCain on Tuesday blamed Wall Street's financial turmoil on unchecked corporate greed. His Democratic opponent, Barack Obama, dismissed McCain's call for a high-level commission to study the economic crisis as "passing the buck."

The presidential campaigns argued over who would be best able to deal with the kinds of financial meltdowns that roiled the markets Monday and to prevent a similar crisis in the future. McCain proposed a review on the order of the one led by the Sept. 11 commission, the bipartisan panel that studied the events leading to the 2001 terrorist attacks.

"We need a 9/11 commission," McCain said Tuesday on NBC's "Today" show. "We need a commission to figure out what went wrong and how to fix it and I know we can do that and I'll do it."

Obama, campaigning in Golden, Colo., accused McCain of failing to offer concrete plans for dealing with economic issues.

"Sen. McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book. You pass the buck to a commission to study the problem," Obama said. "This isn't 9/11. We know how we got into this mess. What we need now is leadership that gets us out. I'll provide it. John McCain won't. And that's the choice for Americans in this election."

Obama continued to criticize McCain's remark Monday that "the fundamentals of our economy are strong." In a television ad released Tuesday, Obama's campaign asks: "How can John McCain fix our economy if he doesn't understand it's broken?"

On Monday, a few hours after the remark about strong economic fundamentals, McCain backtracked and declared the economy to be in crisis. He also said that American workers and products — the "fundamentals" he claimed he was referring to earlier — were indeed sound but faced danger from greed and corruption.


McCain offered no specific remedies during his appearances on the three network morning shows, though he said he agreed with Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson that the government should not bail out American International Group Inc., the world's largest insurer. AIG stock fell 61 percent on Monday and credit-rating agencies dropped its ratings amid worries that the deteriorating housing market was further undermining its finances.



"There's no magic solution, and I don't think it's at this moment imperative to write down exactly what the plan has to be," said Holtz-Eakin.

:doh:

"It seems like John's had an epiphany. Nine o'clock yesterday morning, John thought the economy was going great guns and the Bush administration was doing well, and today he thinks it's in crisis," Biden said on CBS' "The Early Show."

Biden said the Democratic presidential campaign's solutions for the economic crisis include giving middle-class taxpayers a substantial tax break, putting an end to Bush administration tax cuts that favor the wealthy, investing in infrastructure, and changing bankruptcy laws to help people facing foreclosure.

"My lord, take a look at what — who got us in this hole, whose policies," Biden said. "This has been a Republican philosophy of letting Wall Street do what they want and the middle class be damned. It's about time we change it. If I sound like I'm angry, I am fighting mad for middle-class people who have been the scapegoat of this economy because of the policies of the McCains and the Bushes."


seriously.... "a 9/11 commission"??? thats the answer?

MACH1
09-16-2008, 01:15 PM
Raising tax's and bleeding you dry is the answer?! Then ofcorse there's the easy way out, just vote Present.

http://www.kenpardue.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/easy.jpg

tony hipchest
09-16-2008, 01:28 PM
so while the obama camp is working on delivering solutions to actual problems, it seems like mccains people have nothing better to do than sit around and mock them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080916/pl_politico/13496;_ylt=AsjOc0D0RD3fE.fK.fh6U7Fh24cA

Republicans had fun giving out tire gauges after Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) suggested folks save energy by inflating their tires. Now, some toaster tomfoolery may be in the offing.

Sen. Joe Biden (D-Del.) said on NBC’s “Today” show: “Our tax plan would take that tax cut of another $130 billion that John [McCain] wants to give to people making over $250,000 next year, not let it go forward and give it to the middle class — the very people who desperately need it to stay in their homes, to buy food, to take care of the gas, to fill up their tank, to be able to go out and buy a toaster, to employ people.”

The McCain campaign’s Joe Pounder (“his real name,” as The New Yorker recently put it) crowed in his morning e-mail to reporters: “[D]id you catch Joe Biden saying this morning that their tax cut will allow Americans to buy a ‘toaster’? Nothing says a sound economic plan like ‘buying a toaster.’”

Republicans also posted a YouTube clip of an exchange between Biden and the “Today” host, Meredith Vieira, in which he disputed the idea that economists have questioned raising taxes in a recessionary economy.

VIEIRA: “Senator, you and Senator Obama are calling for tax increases on the wealthy. And there are many economists who say that that would hurt the economy even more.”

BIDEN: “I don't know any economists who are saying that.”

Expect to see a list by the end of the day.


really makes it seem like theyre more concerned with not having their personal taxes raised as opposed to the actual problems this nation faces.

there is no "I" or "ME" in "country".

GBMelBlount
09-16-2008, 01:39 PM
I'm not sure I follow Tony. From what I heard Obama promising originally, the middle class was going to get a tax INCREASE. Also, If you raise taxes on the wealthy, do you think that will improve the overall economy? I have never seen much that proves that countries can tax their way into prosperity, it is usually through lower taxes and free markets, wouldn't you agree?

tony hipchest
09-16-2008, 01:42 PM
Raising tax's and bleeding you dry is the answer?! Then ofcorse there's the easy way out, just vote Present.

http://www.kenpardue.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/easy.jpgHA! sure. why not? i say give it a try and see what happens. sometimes one must be willing to sacrifice for their country. if senator mccain and the GOP are so proud that he was willing to give up his life for their country, i guess i could give up a few bucks for the same country.

its better than the "we'll take a look at it with our blind eye when we get there" :mg: re sponse from the mccain camp.

obamas actually proposing giving tax breaks to the majority.

tony hipchest
09-16-2008, 01:58 PM
I'm not sure I follow Tony. From what I heard Obama promising originally, the middle class was going to get a tax INCREASE.

mosca provided a chart.


http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/06/12/GR2008061200193.gif

Also, If you raise taxes on the wealthy, do you think that will improve the overall economy? I have never seen much that proves that countries can tax their way into prosperity, it is usually through lower taxes and free markets, wouldn't you agree?judging by the last 8 years? no.

in addition to improving the economy we also have this war to pay for along with other issues such as evaporating social security coffers, plus the worst health care and highest crime rate of all industrilized nations.

GBMelBlount
09-16-2008, 02:24 PM
Is this Obama's original proposal? Or a new one? I do remember clinton campaigning on PROPOSED tax cut for the middle class.....But when was the last time a democrat actually followed through and lowered taxes on the middle class they so dearly care about?

Do you honestly think Obama will do a better job with our economy than McCain? Why?

MACH1
09-16-2008, 02:26 PM
Mr. Obama's Small-Business Tax Hike


Wednesday, August 13, 2008; Page A14

Howard Kurtz wrote an analysis ["McCain Paints Obama as a Tax Hound," Aug. 9] that dismissed claims, made in a campaign ad for Sen. John McCain, that Sen. Barack Obama would raise taxes on small business.

According to the latest Internal Revenue Service data, $706 billion of pass-through business income was reported in 2006. Of this, two-thirds was earned in households making more than $250,000 -- households on which Obama has said he will raise taxes.

If raising the tax rate on two-thirds of small-business income isn't a tax hike on small business, what is?

The tax rate on two-thirds of small-business income would skyrocket under the Obama plan. The current tax rate on this income is 37.9 percent. The Obama plan, thanks to uncapping the Social Security tax base, would shoot this small-business rate all the way up to a Carter-level 54.9 percent.

RYAN ELLIS

Tax Policy Director

Americans for Tax Reform
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/12/AR2008081202849.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns

And this will help out the economy how. By putting small business out and raising the unemployment rate.

tony hipchest
09-16-2008, 02:34 PM
Do you honestly think Obama will do a better job with our economy than McCain? Why?because he has made it a major platform. mccain seems to look at it as an afterthought. i have stated some reasons why in this blackberry thread.

heres another reason i think why-

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=27047

GBMelBlount
09-16-2008, 02:39 PM
because he has made it a major platform. mccain seems to look at it as an afterthought. i have stated some reasons why in this blackberry thread.

heres another reason i think why-

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=27047

I knew your answer would bash mccain and then give specifics on Obama like "because he has made it a major platform." I don't mean this personally, but that statement means absolutely nothing to me. You've bashed McCain in great detail now please give me SPECIFIC reasons as to why you feel Obama will be better for our economy......

NJarhead
09-16-2008, 02:48 PM
Adviser says McCain helped create the BlackBerry

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080916/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_blackberry;_ylt=AqKwJ0Uyt3DxNAxgEGeuI9th24c A



i shoulda figured. :rolleyes: the mccainanites arent the sharpest tools in the shed.

:laughing:

so, hows everyones portfolios doing? worst day on the market since terrorists struck on 9/11.

Non-story. It should have said, "Stupid joke by a left wing staffer." and THAT is the inconvenient truth. :chuckle:

Sore losers, those Dems are.

stlrtruck
09-16-2008, 02:53 PM
there is no "I" or "ME" in "country".

No, but there is a "Y" and I'd like to know "Y" these two can't bring concrete ideas to congress - because honestly, without congress none of their lies get passed.

tony hipchest
09-16-2008, 04:16 PM
I knew your answer would bash mccain and then give specifics on Obama like "because he has made it a major platform." I don't mean this personally, but that statement means absolutely nothing to me. You've bashed McCain in great detail now please give me SPECIFIC reasons as to why you feel Obama will be better for our economy......
so now stating that it seems economics will be an afterthought is "bashing"? :noidea: ok. its just an opinion.

honestly i dont feel that i OWE anyone an answer or specific reasons, as i dont go around demanding that everyone else justify their selection to me. but since i like you...

i am confident with the people obama will surround himself with.

i am confident in the democratic philosophy of how to fix todays economic problems and the platform that has been presented. (call it the lesser of 2 evils).

mccain blames greed on wall street for the financial mess were in, yet these are the same people he wants to give the largest tax cut to :huh: :screwy:

mccain is offering to cut taxes across the board yet the largest percentage (the chart says 4.4%) goes to the richest.

sorry, i just dont want my tax dollar going to the richest multi millionaires who live high on the reaganomic hog with lipstic, in hopes that one day it trickles down to make my life better. :whip:

GBMelBlount
09-16-2008, 04:24 PM
mccain is offering to cut taxes across the board yet the largest percentage (the chart says 4.4%) goes to the richest.

sorry, i just dont want my tax dollar going to the richest multi millionaires who live high on the reaganomic hog with lipstic, in hopes that one day it trickles down to make my life better. :whip:

HUH? They aren't taking your money, they are keeping what they earned. Unfortunately too many people feel that when the wealthy get to keep what they earn, somehow the less fortunate are paying for it?

The other thing I don't understand Tony is if you think the economy is so terrible, how could you support a massive tax increase on the the very people who create most of the wealth and economic prosperity in this country? Again, can you show me many examples of countries that successfully taxed themselves out of recession? That defies simple economic theory as well as the vast majority of real world examples.

tony hipchest
09-16-2008, 04:47 PM
The other thing I don't understand Tony is if you think the economy is so terrible, how could you support a massive tax increase on the the very people who create most of the wealth and economic prosperity in this country? .paying taxes is a fact of life. rich people gotta do it to. i dont even care if they gotta pay a higer percentage than the average american too. the right to thrive and prosper doesnt come for free. let them pay for bush's war for all i care.

economic prosperity? im in tears for all the billionaire banks, credit card companies, mortgage co.s who gamble by extending credit to millions of folks with money loaned from the govt. we live in a culture of debt and it is the enablers who are prospering.

GBMelBlount
09-16-2008, 05:14 PM
Tony hipchest
paying taxes is a fact of life. rich people gotta do it to. i dont even care if they gotta pay a higer percentage than the average american too. the right to thrive and prosper doesnt come for free. let them pay for bush's war for all i care.

I agree Tony, but I think raising taxes on the people who created most our economic prosperity will make things worse. The wealthy and successful best know how to create new wealth and economic prosperity. Taking another dollar from them and giving it to the government is the worst thing you can possibly do imo. If the government had to operate like a business, they'd be outta business in 1 day. The government is the worst possible investment so why would I, or anyone want to give them one more dollar of our hard earned money. Do you honestly think the government doesn't get enough money already? The government needs to be more efficient with the money they are given before they should get another dime imo.

Tony Hipchest
economic prosperity? im in tears for all the billionaire banks, credit card companies, mortgage co.s who gamble by extending credit to millions of folks with money loaned from the govt. we live in a culture of debt and it is the enablers who are prospering.

I think those are very valid points. BUT It was economic freedom that made this country great and prosperous, not the government. We both agree there are problems but you come across as though capitalism is the problem and the governnment is the solution. I feel the exact opposite. I feel the government is the problem and capitalism is the solution. You may feel I am mischaracterizing your beliefs, but that is honestly how you come across to me. :noidea:

Preacher
09-16-2008, 05:16 PM
Oh Praise... praise...


The messiah has come..

http://www.watchingamerica.com/images/JesusObama.jpg


Let's be RID of that devil McCain and his evil temptress Palin.

GBMelBlount
09-16-2008, 05:19 PM
I think we can all agree that is LMAO funny.

MACH1
09-16-2008, 05:20 PM
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/bcrab/Obama2BKool2BAid2BMan.jpg

:toofunny:

NJarhead
09-16-2008, 05:24 PM
Oh Praise... praise...


The messiah has come..

http://www.watchingamerica.com/images/JesusObama.jpg


Let's be RID of that devil McCain and his evil temptress Palin.

I think we can all agree that is LMAO funny.

Well, if Preach's motivation was to scare the "Hell" out of me, then congratulations.

NJarhead
09-16-2008, 05:25 PM
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/bcrab/Obama2BKool2BAid2BMan.jpg

:toofunny:

:rofl: :thumbsup: :drink:

revefsreleets
09-16-2008, 05:28 PM
Make no mistake about it. If you own a small business and vote for Obama, you might as well just declare bankruptcy now. He will HAMMER you with additional taxes on top of the already unfair burden you carry as a small businessman.

McCain 100% FOR small business in the 110th, Obama only 50%
(This is from the National Federation for Independent Business' website, a political lobby for small and indie business)
http://capwiz.com/nfib/scorecard.xc?chamber=S&session=110&votescorecard=true

It gets worse in the 109th. McCain 100% for (again) and Obama only 12% for.

http://capwiz.com/nfib/scorecard/?chamber=S&session=109&x=7&y=8

This is an angle of attack the Democrats DO NOT WANT TO TAKE. They will lose and lose badly on this issue. They tax the living shit out of small business namely because they are largely defenseless.

MACH1
09-16-2008, 05:46 PM
Make no mistake about it. If you own a small business and vote for Obama, you might as well just declare bankruptcy now. He will HAMMER you with additional taxes on top of the already unfair burden you carry as a small businessman.

McCain 100% FOR small business in the 110th, Obama only 50%
(This is from the National Federation for Independent Business' website, a political lobby for small and indie business)
http://capwiz.com/nfib/scorecard.xc?chamber=S&session=110&votescorecard=true

It gets worse in the 109th. McCain 100% for (again) and Obama only 12% for.

http://capwiz.com/nfib/scorecard/?chamber=S&session=109&x=7&y=8

This is an angle of attack the Democrats DO NOT WANT TO TAKE. They will lose and lose badly on this issue. They tax the living shit out of small business namely because they are largely defenseless.

Ding Ding Ding , We have a winner

SteelCityMan786
09-16-2008, 06:21 PM
Make no mistake about it. If you own a small business and vote for Obama, you might as well just declare bankruptcy now. He will HAMMER you with additional taxes on top of the already unfair burden you carry as a small businessman.

McCain 100% FOR small business in the 110th, Obama only 50%
(This is from the National Federation for Independent Business' website, a political lobby for small and indie business)
http://capwiz.com/nfib/scorecard.xc?chamber=S&session=110&votescorecard=true

It gets worse in the 109th. McCain 100% for (again) and Obama only 12% for.

http://capwiz.com/nfib/scorecard/?chamber=S&session=109&x=7&y=8

This is an angle of attack the Democrats DO NOT WANT TO TAKE. They will lose and lose badly on this issue. They tax the living shit out of small business namely because they are largely defenseless.

Want to screw over the country? Vote Obama.

Want a better country? Vote McCain.

Just say NObama and NOBiden.

Steelerstrength
09-16-2008, 07:06 PM
Make no mistake about it. If you own a small business and vote for Obama, you might as well just declare bankruptcy now. He will HAMMER you with additional taxes on top of the already unfair burden you carry as a small businessman.

McCain 100% FOR small business in the 110th, Obama only 50%
(This is from the National Federation for Independent Business' website, a political lobby for small and indie business)
http://capwiz.com/nfib/scorecard.xc?chamber=S&session=110&votescorecard=true

It gets worse in the 109th. McCain 100% for (again) and Obama only 12% for.

http://capwiz.com/nfib/scorecard/?chamber=S&session=109&x=7&y=8

This is an angle of attack the Democrats DO NOT WANT TO TAKE. They will lose and lose badly on this issue. They tax the living shit out of small business namely because they are largely defenseless.

I'm a registered Independent, and I always choose to consider the source of the information. Just a quick Google of the NFIB came up with this:

CNNMONEY states that:

"the NFIB is a Pro-Republican group that directed 98% of its congressional
campaign contributions during the 2004 election cycle to Republicans."

The Puget Sound Business Journal (Seattle) stated that:


the organization is one of the most Republican-leaning associations in the
capital...
they also go on to say that:

" NFIB and the Bush administration do walk hand in hand, because we do see eye to eye," says White House SeniorAdviser Karl Rove, a longtime NFIB member..

Also the NFIB website says that Sen. John McCain is to Keynote the NFIB 2008 National Small-Business Summit.

They don't sound nonpartisan to me.

___________________________________



But, now that you've posted this, I will have to educate myself with these specific bills, and why each voted they way they did. Thanks for posting!

I'm a small business owner, I make good money, and know of the many ways some businesses are able to manipulate the system so they pay much less taxes. Large businesses are the worst culprits of systematic manipulation, and they profit hugely. I know of many who purposefully show hardly any profit, thus pay less in taxes, but they are living a great life. Taxing them less just allows them to keep even more money. Since the economy has become a fiasco through the continued tax cuts to the rich, and we all prosper with higher volume in a good economic situation, why would I want to continue down the road of a larger gap between the have & have not? 60% of all taxpayers make under 70K, so why wouldn't they get a bigger tax break? Did not everyone prosper during the good economy? Didn't the tax cuts to the rich factor into the consequences we are in now? Why did we allow the change for the worse?

Just my questions, some-what rhetorical, that have yet to be answered. I'm still doing my homework.

If I were to vote today, I would vote Obama.

TroysBadDawg
09-16-2008, 07:32 PM
I wil be glad when th election is over then one side can tell the other side "I told you so"

Myself I want "None of the Above" added to all ballots for people running for office, from Dog Catcher (Warden) on up to President.

Time to clean up the cesspool in Washington.

millwalldavey
09-16-2008, 07:54 PM
We'd have flying cars that run on farts if McCain and Gore got together on a ticket!

GBMelBlount
09-16-2008, 07:56 PM
I'm a small business owner, I make good money, and know of the many ways some businesses are able to manipulate the system so they pay much less taxes. Large businesses are the worst culprits of systematic manipulation, and they profit hugely. I know of many who purposefully show hardly any profit, thus pay less in taxes, but they are living a great life. Taxing them less just allows them to keep even more money. Since the economy has become a fiasco through the continued tax cuts to the rich, and we all prosper with higher volume in a good economic situation, why would I want to continue down the road of a larger gap between the have & have not? 60% of all taxpayers make under 70K, so why wouldn't they get a bigger tax break? Did not everyone prosper during the good economy? Didn't the tax cuts to the rich factor into the consequences we are in now? Why did we allow the change for the worse?

Just my questions, some-what rhetorical, that have yet to be answered. I'm still doing my homework.

If I were to vote today, I would vote Obama.

I don't see it that way D, If there are "flaws" that allow the wealthy to pay less taxes, perhaps the tax codes should be fixed first. Why increase taxes if fixing the tax code would help? And again, if you raise taxes significantly on the wealthy they will purchase less and the people who are employed making the expensive things they desire or providing services will no longer have jobs. Then with less people employed and having less to spend, sales drop in general, inventories rise, more people get laid off, etc. It can be a recipe for economic disaster imo. Especially with the economy working through the current issues.

also, I'm not sure why you feel the "tax cuts" for the rich created this problem? Besides, it's 100% their money until the government takes it. I just see it as them being able to keep more of their hard earned money that they rightfully deserve. :drink:

NJarhead
09-16-2008, 08:03 PM
We'd have flying cars that run on farts if McCain and Gore got together on a ticket!

:rofl:

revefsreleets
09-16-2008, 08:10 PM
Never said NFIB was non-partisan. Why would I? NFIB is political lobby. They are looking out for the best interests of their constituents, which are small business owners. FACT is, small business is supported by Republicans, and not supported by Democrats.

Think about it for a second. NFIB REPRESENTS small business. That's their sole aim and purpose for existing. They go where the gettin' is good. They dissect votes from congress according to what benefits small business and what does not.

If they support Republicans 98% of the time, that, at least to me, shows that Republicans support small business 98% of the time.

Let's not let the tail wag the dog here...

HometownGal
09-16-2008, 08:14 PM
http://rhymeswithright.mu.nu/archives/images/st-obama-of-assisi.jpg

HometownGal
09-16-2008, 08:42 PM
http://www.adrants.com/images/obama_smoke.jpg

HometownGal
09-16-2008, 08:44 PM
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/u/8/2/obama-hillary-dunk.jpg

:laughing::toofunny::laughing:

tony hipchest
09-16-2008, 09:31 PM
those pictures are HILARIOUS!!! :laughing:

i got a few too. unfortunately they arent photoshops-

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/_44471479_mccain_bush_ap416.jpg

:sofunny: :sofunny: :sofunny:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/john-mccain-george-w-bush-hug-lead.jpg

:toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/untitled-3.jpg

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:




:chuckle:

X-Terminator
09-16-2008, 09:36 PM
If there's one thing I've learned over the years is that I do not want to be rich. Because when you're rich, you have a big bulls-eye on your back. Everyone is gunning for you, trying to take everything you own, and just about everyone hates your guts. I can certainly understand why so many of them turn to drugs and alcohol - the stress level has to be ridiculously high. Sorry, I don't want any part of that.

CantStop85
09-16-2008, 09:58 PM
If there's one thing I've learned over the years is that I do not want to be rich. Because when you're rich, you have a big bulls-eye on your back. Everyone is gunning for you, trying to take everything you own, and just about everyone hates your guts. I can certainly understand why so many of them turn to drugs and alcohol - the stress level has to be ridiculously high. Sorry, I don't want any part of that.

John McCain...is that you!?

:chuckle:

tony hipchest
09-16-2008, 10:01 PM
I'm a small business owner, I make good money, and know of the many ways some businesses are able to manipulate the system so they pay much less taxes. Large businesses are the worst culprits of systematic manipulation, and they profit hugely. I know of many who purposefully show hardly any profit, thus pay less in taxes, but they are living a great life. Taxing them less just allows them to keep even more money. Since the economy has become a fiasco through the continued tax cuts to the rich, and we all prosper with higher volume in a good economic situation, why would I want to continue down the road of a larger gap between the have & have not? 60% of all taxpayers make under 70K, so why wouldn't they get a bigger tax break? Did not everyone prosper during the good economy? Didn't the tax cuts to the rich factor into the consequences we are in now? Why did we allow the change for the worse?

.
:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

it is refreshing to know that not all small business owners have bought into all the propaganda that every small business owner is going to be driven to the bread and cheese lines due to obama tax cuts.

im all for the ma and pa shops. personally i think the basement for tax increases should be at about $750,000 per household. but i have worked for a fed govt contract reserved for small business/minority owned contractors (sort of an affirmative action type deal), and i know they can be just as corrupt as big business with just as many loopholes to jump through.

i worked for this man who was applauded by the el paso times as a rising SBA millionaire, who eventually lost his business for robbing the govt and his employees blind and not having the wherewithall to graduate from the SBA program that made him rich.

why anyone in el paso needs a miniature yacht sitting in a warehouse beats me. you can walk across the rio grande. :noidea:

tony hipchest
09-16-2008, 10:08 PM
trying to take everything you own

"everything"???


really???




:huh:



:crying01:



:binky:



:violin:

Preacher
09-16-2008, 10:08 PM
60% of all taxpayers make under 70K, so why wouldn't they get a bigger tax break?



Its real simple.

50 percent of 10,000.00 paid in taxes is 5000.00 10 percent of 100,000 paid taxes is 10,000.00.

Which is the bigger tax cut?

The 50 percent. Though others want you to see the 10 percent... skip over the figures, and say LOOK... the rich is getting back TWICE as much as the poor.

Of course they are, they are paying IN 20 times as much.

X-Terminator
09-16-2008, 10:21 PM
John McCain...is that you!?

:chuckle:

"everything"???


really???




:huh:



:crying01:



:binky:



:violin:

Laugh all you want, guys. It's how I feel. If you're rich, you're a target. Plain and simple. And I've felt this way for quite a long time.

Instead of mocking me, do either of you want to try to convince me otherwise? I'm really not interested in getting into some petty pissing match.

MACH1
09-16-2008, 10:26 PM
Laugh all you want, guys. It's how I feel. If you're rich, you're a target. Plain and simple. And I've felt this way for quite a long time.

Instead of mocking me, do either of you want to try to convince me otherwise? I'm really not interested in getting into some petty pissing match.

If I were rich I could tell you. Still waiting to win the lottery. :wink02:

tony hipchest
09-16-2008, 10:27 PM
Its real simple.

50 percent of 10,000.00 paid in taxes is 5000.00 10 percent of 100,000 paid taxes is 10,000.00.

Which is the bigger tax cut?

The 50 percent. Though others want you to see the 10 percent... skip over the figures, and say LOOK... the rich is getting back TWICE as much as the poor.

Of course they are, they are paying IN 20 times as much.:yawn:

lamest. rhetoric. ever.

anyone with an inkling of an understanding of taxation and economics sees right throuh this poor, condecending, example.

its not even relative to either candidates proposals. :noidea:

utter rubbish imo that proves no point whatsoever, other than what lenghts the right will go to, to justify their cuts.

tony hipchest
09-16-2008, 11:01 PM
Laugh all you want, guys. It's how I feel. If you're rich, you're a target. Plain and simple. And I've felt this way for quite a long time.

Instead of mocking me, do either of you want to try to convince me otherwise? I'm really not interested in getting into some petty pissing match.

what "guys"?

if your an underclass soldier in iraq, fighting for the rights of capitalism, you are a "target".

if you live in many of the poor inner cities you are a "target".

i dont wanna hear about the rich being a "target".

britney spears is a "target" of the paparazzi.

BOO-HOO.

it seems as if im about the lone democratic supporter who wastes his time to speak his/her opinion on the matter on this bored (no pun intended). :chuckle:

ive been in a pissing match for quite some time now, and im definitely pissing upwind cause i am going against the grain of this specific boards vocal populus.

me :monkey:

i could care less about trying to convince you otherwise. i could care less how you or anyone else on this board votes.

if i really cared i would be walking down the street and knocking on doors. NM's 5 electoral votes are more up in the air than any other state's. check the polls and we are blue in a sea of red. my state isnt party specific. NM is up in the air and recent localized campmccaign ads suggest as much.

our 2 mil population was decided by less than 500 voters in 2000.

if i truly gave a shit, i would be out campaigning instead of posting on a steelersboard, and i guarantee that i could convince atleast 500 people to register to vote. i have worked the polls on election day as an election judge (easy $100 bucks).

i could easilly convince 40 of my employees to vote whichever way i wanted tomorrow if i wanted to.


frankly, i could run for office in my town and possibly be sarah palin in 10 years if i wanted to.

God bless America :usa:

Preacher
09-16-2008, 11:08 PM
:yawn:

lamest. rhetoric. ever.

anyone with an inkling of an understanding of taxation and economics sees right throuh this poor, condecending, example.

its not even relative to either candidates proposals. :noidea:

utter rubbish imo that proves no point whatsoever, other than what lenghts the right will go to, to justify their cuts.

Tony,

Condensending?

Reread your own post.

BTW... I wasn't TRYING to make it RELEVANT to a candidates PROPOSAL... but rather, simply WHY "rich" people get MORE REAL MONEY in "tax cuts" and used SIMPLE figures to do it..

I guess that is poor and condenscending isn't it.

Forgive me for thinking that people on left can do math.

I should have known better.

tony hipchest
09-16-2008, 11:12 PM
Tony,

Condensending?

Reread your own post.

.


i re-read my own post.

i laughed again.

:hunch:

Preacher
09-16-2008, 11:14 PM
i re-read my own post.

i laughed again.

:hunch:


Figures.

Have a nice day

I think I am going to take a break from this area for a little while.

See ya all in the Steelers threads...

tony hipchest
09-16-2008, 11:39 PM
Figures.

Have a nice day

I think I am going to take a break from this area for a little while.

See ya all in the Steelers threads...awwwww.

i never thought my little musings could be so infuential.

:wave:

i was almost sure there were some cute pictures of obama's face superimposed on a fat buddah that coulda been found out there, somewhere on the internet.:hunch:

did i mention it is now revealed that obama has a relative that is a rabbi? :noidea:

HA

HA

:chuckle:

X-Terminator
09-16-2008, 11:55 PM
Yeah, I'm done too. Let the children play - I'm not wasting my time or bandwidth anymore. Trying to debate like a civilized adult apparently is a futile task in here.

November can't get here soon enough.

tony hipchest
09-17-2008, 12:16 AM
Yeah, I'm done too. Let the children play - I'm not wasting my time or bandwidth anymore. Trying to debate like a civilized adult apparently is a futile task in here.

November can't get here soon enough.woah! :yeehaw:

....but did you see all the cute little photoshops?

politics aside, i think calling the likes of mach1, preacher, and htg "children" is a bit unfair and certainly extreme.

i dont care how they vote and most definitely respect their viewpoints and opinions.

:noidea:

an apology may be in order.

millwalldavey
09-17-2008, 05:42 AM
I wonder how the photoshop of McCain on Hitlers body I found would go over?

millwalldavey
09-17-2008, 05:43 AM
Laugh all you want, guys. It's how I feel. If you're rich, you're a target. Plain and simple. And I've felt this way for quite a long time.


And if you're not you're just a cog.

GBMelBlount
09-17-2008, 06:21 AM
tony hipchest]

applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

it is refreshing to know that not all small business owners have bought into all the propaganda that every small business owner is going to be driven to the bread and cheese lines due to obama tax cuts.

I feel exactly the same way about politicians who are paid with our tax dollars, primarily conservatives imo, who still believe in a smaller, more manageable government and reasonable taxes. THAT is refreshing. Let's face it, they are employed by governmet, so the bigger government is, the more power, money and security the politicians have, yet they know that the best thing for our country is non strangling taxes, capitalism and free enterprise, the exact thing that made this country great.

Obama feeling that any industry needs to be punished for "excess" profits by further increasing their taxes is simply appalling to me. Plus it makes NO economic sense. If he raises taxes on oil companies, gas companies will simply raise prices and pass the tax along to us at the pump. Obama will get more tax money that we as consumers will pay for, and yet the oil companies will get blamed, not Obama. Do you think tht will heIp the economy and the little guy? I don't I already pay 50 cents a gallon to the government who makes more profit per gallon of gas than the oil companies for doing almost nothing and yet the oil companies get blamed!!!!! Do you feel that is fair? I don't.

revefsreleets
09-17-2008, 08:13 AM
I have no idea where this thread took a turn, but getting back on topic, Obama doesn't have much of a record, but the record he does have is clearly anti-small business. McCain is clearly pro-small business, and this is according to the small business lobby. Just want to get back to the facts...

HometownGal
09-17-2008, 08:27 AM
woah! :yeehaw:

....but did you see all the cute little photoshops?

politics aside, i think calling the likes of mach1, preacher, and htg "children" is a bit unfair and certainly extreme.

i dont care how they vote and most definitely respect their viewpoints and opinions.

:noidea:

an apology may be in order.

Hipcheese - don't you know that hijacking threads around here is a must? :chuckle::wink02:

I didn't take XT's comments above as him referring to MACH, Preacher or I as "children", so no apology is in order, at least not from him.

Personally, I find this non-photoshopped image a helluva lot more disturbing than those you posted.

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/03_03/ObamaAP1803_468x529.jpg

revefsreleets
09-17-2008, 08:35 AM
http://www.obamawaffles.com/images/Obama_Web_Template_02.jpg

X-Terminator
09-17-2008, 08:38 AM
woah! :yeehaw:

....but did you see all the cute little photoshops?

politics aside, i think calling the likes of mach1, preacher, and htg "children" is a bit unfair and certainly extreme.

i dont care how they vote and most definitely respect their viewpoints and opinions.

:noidea:

an apology may be in order.

Somehow, I think Mach1, Preacher and especially HTG are all smart enough to realize that I was not talking about them. And I'll just leave it at that.

TroysBadDawg
09-17-2008, 08:41 AM
We'd have flying cars that run on farts if McCain and Gore got together on a ticket!

Per Obama, we just have to keep the tires inflated and we get better gas mileage. We should just eat cake and like it..

tony hipchest
09-17-2008, 08:44 AM
I have no idea where this thread took a turn, but getting back on topic, Obama doesn't have much of a record, but the record he does have is clearly anti-small business. McCain is clearly pro-small business, and this is according to the small business lobby. Just want to get back to the facts...thank you. i think the plea to discuss actual issues on this board was a cry in the night.

if what you say is the case its one of the few things i can disagree with obama on. i am definitely for small business. from catering gigs, to working in a pet shop sweeping up brownfan poo :poop: small businesses is all i know. even my current non for profit employer is considered a small business (not for long as we are rapidly aquiring more contracts).

i have never worked for a large corporation- dont want to. it is small business that puts bread on my table.

it can be rough, especially as a start-up with little capital to back you. this is where all the banks and loan companies become rich, aned this is also where they can sink the economy. i dont understand how some on the right can be so pro-welfare for companies, yet act like welfare for individuals is driving america into the poorhouse.

there are plenty of govt welfare programs to get businesses on their feet just like there are plenty of welfare programs to help individuals. and just like individuals abuse these, so do small businesses. not all, but it is the nature of the beast.

make no mistake though, obama isnt out to shut down every small business in america. this perception that he is, is rediculous. nobody is that stupid. not even the democratic presidential candidate.

revefsreleets
09-17-2008, 08:51 AM
Actually, it comes down to misconceptions and the fact that SBO are easy targets. There are a lot of pork projects floating around, and they need to be paid for. Quick and easy? Tax small business again. They are an easy target because they are under-represented in Washington, and can't readily defend themselves.

tony hipchest
09-17-2008, 08:55 AM
Per Obama, we just have to keep the tires inflated and we get better gas mileage. DAMN HIM for telling the truth! :whip:

its true. proper vehicle maintenance can do wonders. its also well known that an oil change every 3000 miles (this number has gone up a bit with newer vehicles) will make an engine last longer than say 50,000-100,000 miles.

this country lives in a culture of waste, neglect, laziness, and debt. we see it in our school systems. we see it with the growing population of obese children. we see it with our throw away appliances (anyone take a vcr to the repair shop lately?)

all the little things add up (such as propper air pressure in your car). i know no man can change this culture we live in. but God bless those that try.

tony hipchest
09-17-2008, 09:00 AM
Somehow, I think Mach1, Preacher and especially HTG are all smart enough to realize that I was not talking about them. And I'll just leave it at that.
i know. (im smart enough too, incase you were insinuating i am dumb :wink02: )

thanks for calling me childish.:thumbsup:

werent you one of the ones bemoaning actual issues not being addressed?

im not the one who hijacked this thread, so maybe you can keep your judgement and namecalling to yourself.:drink:

GBMelBlount
09-17-2008, 09:05 AM
tony hipchest

if what you say is the case its one of the few things i can disagree with obama on. i am definitely for small business. from catering gigs, to working in a pet shop sweeping up brownfan poo :poop: small businesses is all i know. even my current non for profit employer is considered a small business (not for long as we are rapidly aquiring more contracts).

That's great tony, continued best wishes for your company. Hopefully you'll be able to upgrade your backup 13" Orion TV soon! :chuckle:

it can be rough, especially as a start-up with little capital to back you. this is where all the banks and loan companies become rich, aned this is also where they can sink the economy. i dont understand how some on the right can be so pro-welfare for companies, yet act like welfare for individuals is driving america into the poorhouse.

Certainly our government does some good for the "less fortunate." My concern is simply at what cost. With capitalism, there is an ebb and flow due to the cyclical nature of free markets and economies. Governemnt does not operate that way. Once they get their hands on something, they usually never let go, they operate like a cancer imo.

I am not pro welfare for businesses. My concern is that we have the 2nd highest corporate taxes in the entire world! I would rather see across the board reduction in what the government takes from businesses. This would help our economy, help our products to be priced more competitvely, it would help the trade deficit and jobs would be less likely to go overseas.

X-Terminator
09-17-2008, 09:05 AM
i know. (im smart enough too, incase you were insinuating i am dumb :wink02: )

thanks for calling me childish.:thumbsup:

werent you one of the ones bemoaning actual issues not being addressed?

im not the one who hijacked this thread, so maybe you can keep your judgement and namecalling to yourself.:drink:

You're also not the one who had his opinion mocked and laughed at, rather than attempt to discuss it rationally. If you disagree, fine. Don't care. But don't try to make me look stupid.

tony hipchest
09-17-2008, 09:15 AM
You're also not the one who had his opinion mocked and laughed at, rather than attempt to discuss it rationally. If you disagree, fine. Don't care. But don't try to make me look stupid.if you read the actual articles, discussing the actual issues at hand, joe biden is the one who was mocked by the GOP.

the novel idea of proper tire pressure increasing gas mileage was mocked. i dont know whose defense you are running to. :noidea:

i also dont know who is trying to make you look stupid. as i recall it was YOU trying to make me look stupid. i just called you on it. :hunch:

Yeah, I'm done too. Let the children play - I'm not wasting my time or bandwidth anymore. Trying to debate like a civilized adult apparently is a futile task in here.
now would you like to apply names to your statement or would you just like to properly address it to me specifically?

to quote charles barkley and scottie pippen " anything else would be uncivilized".

:chuckle:

Originally Posted by CantStop85
John McCain...is that you!?

:chuckle:

XT its called a joke. it was a lighthearted remark said in fun. I am smart enough to see that . i dont think anyone was mocking or laughing at you. and if they were, well that happens sometimes on messageboards (whether steelers or politics are the discussion). i dont think political discussions are the problem here. maybe its people being too sensitive. now i know you have an agenda to have political talk removed from this board, but just because the majority disagree with a few people here isnt the proper motive.

if brownfans and bunglefans can stay and discuss their teams in the proper forum, then so can somebody who is voting democrat.

cubanstogie
09-17-2008, 09:25 AM
DAMN HIM for telling the truth! :whip:

its true. proper vehicle maintenance can do wonders. its also well known that an oil change every 3000 miles (this number has gone up a bit with newer vehicles) will make an engine last longer than say 50,000-100,000 miles.

this country lives in a culture of waste, neglect, laziness, and debt. we see it in our school systems. we see it with the growing population of obese children. we see it with our throw away appliances (anyone take a vcr to the repair shop lately?)

all the little things add up (such as propper air pressure in your car). i know no man can change this culture we live in. but God bless those that try.

Its a disposable society, and it starts with abortion. If you can throw a child away, where does it end. Not trying to start a war here Tony, but to me abortion says we don't care, we are lazy, take no accountability. No wonder people are fat, dumb, lazy, unaccountable for actions. I am not saying there isn't a time a a place for abortion. such as first trimester, incest, rape. I am not trying to change the topic, but when you stated culture of waste, neglect, laziness I think abortion is the epitome of that, and sets the tone for future behavior.

X-Terminator
09-17-2008, 09:45 AM
if you read the actual articles, discussing the actual issues at hand, joe biden is the one who was mocked by the GOP.

the novel idea of proper tire pressure increasing gas mileage was mocked. i dont know whose defense you are running to. :noidea:

I don't know why anyone would mock that, because that does work, along with regular tune-ups, etc. Tires that aren't properly inflated causes the engine to work harder since it would require more power to run the car, and ultimately use more gas. I thought that was common knowledge, but apparently not.

i also dont know who is trying to make you look stupid. as i recall it was YOU trying to make me look stupid. i just called you on it. :hunch:

now would you like to apply names to your statement or would you just like to properly address it to me specifically?

to quote charles barkley and scottie pippen " anything else would be uncivilized".

:chuckle:


I said this:

If there's one thing I've learned over the years is that I do not want to be rich. Because when you're rich, you have a big bulls-eye on your back. Everyone is gunning for you, trying to take everything you own, and just about everyone hates your guts. I can certainly understand why so many of them turn to drugs and alcohol - the stress level has to be ridiculously high. Sorry, I don't want any part of that.

And got this...

John McCain...is that you!?

:chuckle:

and this...

"everything"???


really???




:huh:



:crying01:



:binky:



:violin:

...as responses. Nothing about why my opinion may be wrong or why I shouldn't feel that way (to be fair, you almost addressed it in a later response). Nope, it was completely dismissed, and yes, mocked. Hence, the "childish" remark.

XT its called a joke. it was a lighthearted remark said in fun. I am smart enough to see that . i dont think anyone was mocking or laughing at you. and if they were, well that happens sometimes on messageboards (whether steelers or politics are the discussion). i dont think political discussions are the problem here. maybe its people being too sensitive. now i know you have an agenda to have political talk removed from this board, but just because the majority disagree with a few people here isnt the proper motive. if brownfans and bunglefans can stay and discuss their teams in the proper forum, then so can somebody who is voting democrat.

Well, that's not how I saw it. I posted that for discussion purposes, not to have it mocked. Sorry. And yes, I freely admit I wouldn't mind seeing political discussions banned, and I'm not going to get into my reasons why once again. I'll simply say that that doesn't help matters one iota.

tony hipchest
09-17-2008, 09:47 AM
Its a disposable society, and it starts with abortion. If you can throw a child away, where does it end. Not trying to start a war here Tony, but to me abortion says we don't care, we are lazy, take no accountability. No wonder people are fat, dumb, lazy, unaccountable for actions. I am not saying there isn't a time a a place for abortion. such as first trimester, incest, rape. I am not trying to change the topic, but when you stated culture of waste, neglect, laziness I think abortion is the epitome of that, and sets the tone for future behavior.that is a great... no, excellent point that i wouldnt even attempt to argue. :drink:

it is easy for me to be pro-choice because i am not a woman, but i think the act itself is horrible and terribly sad. (personally i had influence in the choice before, and was rewarded with the most beatiful, healthy, smartest, gift in the world)

it is easy for me to be pro-choice because i am a Christian. sayings like "love thy neighbor" and "judge not lest ye be judged" are important to me. i believe everyone will answer to their maker one day.

it is an unfortunate part of the society we live in. free enterprise, right? :shake01:

tony hipchest
09-17-2008, 10:15 AM
I don't know why anyone would mock that, because that does work, along with regular tune-ups, etc. Tires that aren't properly inflated causes the engine to work harder since it would require more power to run the car, and ultimately use more gas. I thought that was common knowledge, but apparently not.




I said this:



And got this...



and this...



...as responses. Nothing about why my opinion may be wrong or why I shouldn't feel that way (to be fair, you almost addressed it in a later response). Nope, it was completely dismissed, and yes, mocked. Hence, the "childish" remark.



Well, that's not how I saw it. I posted that for discussion purposes, not to have it mocked. Sorry. And yes, I freely admit I wouldn't mind seeing political discussions banned, and I'm not going to get into my reasons why once again. I'll simply say that that doesn't help matters one iota.ok. i respect you enough, that i probably shouldnt have taken that tone with your post. but the "rich being victims" tone is what got to me as well as the extreme statement that america is trying to take EVERYTHING they got. i think america loves rich people. america loves money and wealth. unfortunately the distance between the "haves" and "have nots" continues to increase. the system is built for an accumulation of wealth for the "haves". crime is a problem and the rich do get robbed. however there are plenty of rich people who rob the poor.

so to dignify your opinion, i am getting sick of the rightwing belief that the rich are victims. meanwhile the single mother who leaves an abusive relationship, works 2 minimum wage jobs to support 3 kids (she chose not to abort), and still needs the govt. and welfare to see that they have proper medical care is looked down upon as trash who mooches off the "system".

classy move by the GOP to pass out tire guages at a mccain rally to openly mock obama offering well known techniques all americans can use to just become a little less dependent on foreign oil.

im one who believes every little bit helps and the little things all add up.

their move was about as classy as if the obama campaign handed out condoms at one of their rallys to openly mock mccains stance on abortion.

pretty dispicable politics if you ask me. i have no problem going with the party that isnt relying on such shitty tactics that perpetuate ignorance.

i do know one thing. big oil would be more than glad if all americans deflated their tires by 5 lb PSI, just like tobacco would be glad if all americans didnt know their products cause cancer.

GBMelBlount
09-17-2008, 10:30 AM
tony hipchest
i think america loves rich people. america loves money and wealth. unfortunately the distance between the "haves" and "have nots" continues to increase. the system is built for an accumulation of wealth for the "haves". crime is a problem and the rich do get robbed. however there are plenty of rich people who rob the poor.

So you go and blame the successful and wealthy for increasing the gap? God bless America and God bless what is left of capitalism. The beauty in this country is if you don't like being poor, you can usually do something about it.

Tony Hipchest
I am getting sick of the rightwing belief that the rich are victims. meanwhile the single mother who leaves an abusive relationship, works 2 minimum wage jobs to support 3 kids (she chose not to abort), and still needs the govt. and welfare to see that they have proper medical care is looked down upon as trash who mooches off the "system".

We can all agree those types of situations are unfortunate. But who do you blame for her situation, the wealthy and successful? Life is tough for many people, but more and bigger government is not always the solution, they are more often the problem. Why doesn't she go back to school, learn something and get a better job with more pay? Honestly Tony, you come across as many democrats who vote based more on class envy than anything else, one of the foundations of marxism, as you well know.

Tony Hipchest
pretty dispicable politics if you ask me. i have no problem going with the party that isnt relying on such shitty tactics that perpetuate ignorance.

That is a ridiculous comment.

tony hipchest
09-17-2008, 10:50 AM
So you go and blame :blah: the successful and wealthy for increasing the gap? :huh: :wtf: :hunch: God bless America and God bless what is left of capitalism. The beauty in this country is if you don't like being poor, you can usually do something about it.



We can all agree those types of situations are unfortunate. But who do you blame :blah: for her situation, the wealthy and successful? Life is tough for many people, but more and bigger government is not always the solution, they are more often the problem. Why doesn't she go back to school, :jawdrop:you mean get a government grant for college? *GASP* :jawdrop:learn something and get a better job with more pay? Honestly Tony, you come across as many democrats who vote based more on class envy than anything else, one of the foundations of marxism, as you well know.



That is a ridiculous comment.i dont follow your fixation of "blame".

the system is built for an accumulation of wealth for the "haves". blaming someone doesnt solve the problems. its really a waste of energy and time.

i really dont care if you think i am a commie or however i "come across" to a single person or even an entire messageboard. if you dont agree with my viewpoints the only piece of advice i can offer is to not vote for obama. thats all i got for ya. :wave:

as for capitalism and free enterprise i am all for it. personally, i believe guns, drugs (yes illegal) and abortions should ALL be available at wal-mart.

lots of money to be made off of marijuana, heroin, cocaine etc. and who am i to tell someone not to do drugs, or have an abortion, or form a militia?

GBMelBlount
09-17-2008, 11:04 AM
Tony Hipchest
unfortunately the distance between the "haves" and "have nots" continues to increase. the system is built for an accumulation of wealth for the "haves".

GBMelBlount
So you go and blame the successful and wealthy for increasing the gap?

Tony Hipchest
i dont follow your fixation of "blame".

Your statement simply comes across as though there is something wrong with more accumulation of wealth by the "haves". There is nothing from stopping most "have nots" from changing their situation. Again, it just smacks of class envy imo.

Tony Hipchest
I really dont care if you think i am a commie or however i "come across" to a single person or even an entire messageboard.

Then why are you using all those emoticons if you don't care? They are used to emphasize feelings...yet you don't care. OK. :chuckle:

BTW, I don't think you are a marxist, just very liberal. I feel you have already made up your mind and now simply embrace the information that is consistent with what you already decided. That's all.

And please don't think that this means I don't love you any more Tony. :hug: It just hurts me when you tell me you don't care anymore. :wink02:

tony hipchest
09-17-2008, 11:22 AM
I didn't take XT's comments above as him referring to MACH, Preacher or I as "children", so no apology is in order, at least not from him.

Personally, I find this non-photoshopped image a helluva lot more disturbing than those you posted.

i know. :wink02:

its that i was so subtley singled out and it was insinuated that i am uncapable of civilized debate while everyne else on the "right side" got a free pass for "hem haw"ing it up in the thread.

thats obama with his 1 time reverend.

so why do you find that picture so disturbing? (rhetorical question- i know your stance on the man.) its not like that man is his running mate. :noidea: he wont be getting a cabinet post or anything.

ive hung out with worse.

tony hipchest
09-17-2008, 12:16 PM
They are an easy target because they are under-represented in Washington, and can't readily defend themselves.valid points.

but who will represent them in washington?

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/mccain_shining.jpg

revefsreleets
09-17-2008, 12:30 PM
They have the NFIB, and I believe there is another small/indie lobby/PAC. Problem is they have about as much collective juice as any one major corporation, so they are wildly under-represented. Each little kitchen has it's own cook, so it's really hard to get them organized, although it's devastatingly detrimental to them not to be better organized.

HometownGal
09-17-2008, 12:37 PM
i know. :wink02:

its that i was so subtley singled out and it was insinuated that i am uncapable of civilized debate while everyne else on the "right side" got a free pass for "hem haw"ing it up in the thread.

thats obama with his 1 time reverend.

so why do you find that picture so disturbing? (rhetorical question- i know your stance on the man.) its not like that man is his running mate. :noidea: he wont be getting a cabinet post or anything.

ive hung out with worse.

Tony, Tony, Tony - this is an adult message board, not a playground where we're clamoring to play the "naa naa" game or red rover. :wink02: As I have stated many times until I'm blue in the face, being from the "right" isn't a prerequisite for membership here at SF. :wink02:

I find that picture disturbing because Reverend Wright has more than proven himself to be a racist and Obama and his wife were very active members of his Trinity United Church in excess of 20 years - do you really believe the Rev. started his racist preachings in the last year or so?? :doh: Where I come from - if my church's teachings go against my moralistical beliefs and how I apply those beliefs to my own life, I sure as hell am not going to remain a member of that church.

Obama and Reverend Jeremiah Wright. You're a smart guy - do the math.

P.S. Just for good measure - - -:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny:

http://www.liberalrapture.com/uploaded_images/upass-755925.jpg

MACH1
09-17-2008, 12:50 PM
valid points.

but who will represent them in washington?


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/fladj11/Obama/gay-obama.jpg


Sorry, couldn't resist.

:chuckle:

HometownGal
09-17-2008, 01:05 PM
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/fladj11/Obama/gay-obama.jpg


Sorry, couldn't resist.

:chuckle:

ROFLMAO!!!! :toofunny::toofunny::toofunny:

http://www.thepeoplescube.com/images/Obama_Dizzy_Double.jpg

HometownGal
09-17-2008, 01:09 PM
I couldn't resist either - sorry Tony! :wink02::laughing:

http://www.politicalhumorist.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/obamawalksonwater.jpg


http://www.songsforamerica.net/photogallery/new021708/obama-weed.jpg

HometownGal
09-17-2008, 01:11 PM
It's a bird, it's a plane - it's SUPER O! :rofl:

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/7/c/z/1/obama_super_obama.jpg

X-Terminator
09-17-2008, 01:32 PM
ok. i respect you enough, that i probably shouldnt have taken that tone with your post. but the "rich being victims" tone is what got to me as well as the extreme statement that america is trying to take EVERYTHING they got. i think america loves rich people. america loves money and wealth. unfortunately the distance between the "haves" and "have nots" continues to increase. the system is built for an accumulation of wealth for the "haves". crime is a problem and the rich do get robbed. however there are plenty of rich people who rob the poor.

so to dignify your opinion, i am getting sick of the rightwing belief that the rich are victims. meanwhile the single mother who leaves an abusive relationship, works 2 minimum wage jobs to support 3 kids (she chose not to abort), and still needs the govt. and welfare to see that they have proper medical care is looked down upon as trash who mooches off the "system".

Well, if you're getting sick of that, I'm getting sick of the notion that the rich should just shut up and pay more taxes just because they're rich. Just because they accumulated a lot of wealth doesn't mean they lose their right to complain when the government raises their taxes. If you raise taxes on the rich, all they are going to do is hire the best CPA or corporate accountant money can buy to find every conceivable way to avoid paying them, or in the case of a corporation, pass the "savings" on to their customers or cut jobs/wages. What would be more effective, IMO, is to close many of the loopholes that they use to get out of paying their share rather than simply raising them.

classy move by the GOP to pass out tire guages at a mccain rally to openly mock obama offering well known techniques all americans can use to just become a little less dependent on foreign oil.

im one who believes every little bit helps and the little things all add up.

their move was about as classy as if the obama campaign handed out condoms at one of their rallys to openly mock mccains stance on abortion.

Well, my response to that would be for them to deflate the tires on their pedal bikes and then try to ride it. It would take more effort to ride it than it would if the tires were fully inflated. Even if one tire wasn't fully inflated, there is still a noticeable difference. A car is no different. Again, you'd think this was common knowledge, but given the short attention spans of many American voters, I can't say I'm surprised.

Just for the record, I am a staunch proponent of doing whatever it takes to reduce our oil dependence, and am no fan of Big Oil by any stretch.

pretty dispicable politics if you ask me. i have no problem going with the party that isnt relying on such shitty tactics that perpetuate ignorance.

I don't support such tactics and never have. I wish they would all disappear forever, and maybe then we'll be able to get back to judging candidates on their stances on the issues. Having said that, the left doesn't exactly have clean hands where those kinds of "despicable politics" are concerned.

i do know one thing. big oil would be more than glad if all americans deflated their tires by 5 lb PSI, just like tobacco would be glad if all americans didnt know their products cause cancer.

Sure they would. Why do you think it took so long to bring the hybrid engine to market? The technology was around for years before they became popular, and advancements are being done to make them even more fuel efficient than they are now. Who are the ones (other than the government) standing in the way of alternative fuel sources to power cars becoming more mainstream? I'll give you 3 guesses, and the first 2 don't count.

Steelerstrength
09-17-2008, 01:34 PM
After a brief search of the possible benefit to small business (that would be I), these are just a few of the links found to be of interest.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccains_small-business_bunk.html

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_68/s0808021470964.htm

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/03/smallbusiness/mccain_obama_taxes.fsb/index.htm

While I don't believe that the information will change the perspective of anyone on this message board, you might find something of interest.

The civil debates on this board are interesting and informative. The Bad photos are quite humorous! It's great to see so many involved in debate, as it pertains to the most important election of our time. :thumbsup:

tony hipchest
09-17-2008, 01:59 PM
After a brief search of the possible benefit to small business (that would be I), these are just a few of the links found to be of interest.



The civil debates on this board are interesting and informative. The Bad photos are quite humorous! It's great to see so many involved in debate, as it pertains to the most important election of our time. :thumbsup:good stuff. thanks.

from the "MONEY" article-

One measure that would help all business owners and encourage hiring would be an across-the-board cut in the federal payroll tax, which employers must pay before they earn a cent of profit.

Which candidate is championing that reform? Neither. Why not? Payroll taxes fund Social Security and Medicare. Any candidate who proposed cutting them would have to pay more attention to the looming insolvency of those programs. And neither McCain nor Obama loves small business quite that much.

HometownGal
09-17-2008, 02:05 PM
http://www.moonbattery.com/obama_post_turtle.jpg

MACH1
09-17-2008, 05:48 PM
http://badexample.mu.nu/archives/Fife%20obama.jpg

:toofunny:

HometownGal
09-17-2008, 08:34 PM
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/7/K/e/1/obama_tickle_me.jpg

tony hipchest
09-17-2008, 08:49 PM
Tony, Tony, Tony - this is an adult message board, not a playground where we're clamoring to play the "naa naa" game or red rover. :wink02:

you were saying....?

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/06-09-15-192.jpg

:toofunny: :wink02:

MACH1
09-17-2008, 11:18 PM
http://www.blackfive.net/photos/uncategorized/barack_o_urkel_1.jpg

tony hipchest
09-17-2008, 11:32 PM
BTW, I don't think you are a marxist, just very liberal. I feel you have already made up your mind and now simply embrace the information that is consistent with what you already decided. That's all.


eh.... WRONG! :chuckle: i really cant "cling" to a specific label, despite what you feel or what image of myself is preceived.

i am extremely liberal on certain issues-

decriminalization of drugs.
national health care.

and am extremely conservative on others-

capital punishment
right to bear arms
military (im about as pro hawk as it gets)

i am moderately left on some issues-

abortion
freedom of speech (there should not be protesters at fallen soldiers funerals)
taxation

and moderately right on others-

seperation of church and state (in God we trust is still on the Almighty dollar bill)
free enterprise (see above) :wink02:

in all reality i am independent but in order to participate in my local politics and more specifically the national primaries, i have to choose 1 of 2 parties.

however, i have no shame in saying i am a registered democrat even is ostrasizm is the result.

its unfortunate that following and rooting for an independent candidate is akin to being a pgh pirates fan. :tt02:

:hunch: what do you do? stop watching baseball/voting altogether, or watch and pull for a team/candidate you like and think has an actual chance of winning?

thanks for your preconceived notions though. :hug: (youre still my bro!) :wink02:

Hammer67
09-18-2008, 06:30 AM
eh.... WRONG! :chuckle: i really cant "cling" to a specific label, despite what you feel or what image of myself is preceived.

i am extremely liberal on certain issues-

decriminalization of drugs.
national health care.

and am extremely conservative on others-

capital punishment
right to bear arms
military (im about as pro hawk as it gets)

i am moderately left on some issues-

abortion
freedom of speech (there should not be protesters at fallen soldiers funerals)
taxation

and moderately right on others-

seperation of church and state (in God we trust is still on the Almighty dollar bill)
free enterprise (see above) :wink02:

in all reality i am independent but in order to participate in my local politics and more specifically the national primaries, i have to choose 1 of 2 parties.

however, i have no shame in saying i am a registered democrat even is ostrasizm is the result.

its unfortunate that following and rooting for an independent candidate is akin to being a pgh pirates fan. :tt02:

:hunch: what do you do? stop watching baseball/voting altogether, or watch and pull for a team/candidate you like and think has an actual chance of winning?

thanks for your preconceived notions though. :hug: (youre still my bro!) :wink02:

So your a libertarian!! Vote 3rd party! :thumbsup:

GBMelBlount
09-18-2008, 06:54 AM
eh.... WRONG! :chuckle: i really cant "cling" to a specific label, despite what you feel or what image of myself is preceived.

i am extremely liberal on certain issues-...

and am extremely conservative on others-....

i am moderately left on some issues-....

and moderately right on others-

thanks for your preconceived notions though. :hug: (youre still my bro!) :wink02:

Thanks for clarifying that Tony. I HONESTLY appreciate you putting things in perspective. You see, my "preconceived notions" are simply my impression based on the vast majority of your recent posts. That is the only thing you are allowing me to see, and that is solely what I based my comments on. Your posts sounded very "class envy" to me. I know that capitalism isn't perfect, but I personally feel it is more the solution than the problem. Your posts came across to me as though the rich and capitalism are the problem. You have a reason for your posts and what you're focusing on , I'm sure, but again, it just comes across that way to me. As I said, thank you for putting things in perspective......

btw, I did pick up Amani Toomer.....Thanks for your input.

HometownGal
09-18-2008, 08:01 AM
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/w/A/2/obama_jedi_knight.jpg

MACH1
09-18-2008, 10:46 AM
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm197/karonjackson/ObamaNation.jpg

HometownGal
09-18-2008, 11:08 AM
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff302/slypuck2/ObamaChange.jpg