PDA

View Full Version : Offensive Line: Triple Negative F-Minus.


Edman
09-21-2008, 06:15 PM
That is still being being generous. These guys equate to unprepared sloppy dog shit. So much for that new "martial law" they installed this week. And now Ben is being marched to the ambulance. The Philly losing streak continues.

Simmons, Colon, Hartwig, Kemo, and Smith. You suck. You guys suck the biggest c*ck on the world's fattest man. Your suckitude knows no bounds. It's endless. Universal. Into the galaxy and into colossal infinity. Enjoy your paychecks. You'll get them, but you don't deserve them. Worthless piles of cheesy stinky assbutter **** in black jerseys. Mike Webster's ghost could play O-Line better than you clowns. Go f*** yourselves. And I don't wanna hear another word out of these douchebags about contracts.

I dread what the Ravens Defense will do to us next week.

JackHammer
09-21-2008, 06:22 PM
I'm too heated to speak rationally right now, but yeah, the o-line really stunk up the joint.

Steel_Bus_24
09-21-2008, 06:24 PM
fffing pathetic performance today.....This might have actually been worse then that 2006 Ravens game suckfest!!:mad:

steelin games
09-21-2008, 06:25 PM
that is worst game I have ever seen the o-line play!!!! They should give their paychecks to Ben to pay his medical bills.

hizmi
09-21-2008, 06:25 PM
embarrassing performance, but Ben did them no favors by holding on to the ball way too long and giving away two fumbles and a safety.

The playcalling was suspect as well. Didn't see enough screen passes, quick slants, dump-offs, and misdirection plays to keep their pass rush honest.

RunWillieRun
09-21-2008, 06:26 PM
I am very very very worried about next Monday. This could be ugly

PisnNapalm
09-21-2008, 06:26 PM
The O-line is fine guys. It just needs a little tweaking.

HOLY CRAP!! My best friend was over to watch the game today with me. He's a diehard Eagles fan and he was pissed that the Eagles' Defense did so well. He got murdered by them in his fantasy league.

He was stunned by how poorly our o-line did. I however, told him I wasn't surprised. I hope the front office wakes up and sees just how bad this line is.

HereWeGoSteelers219
09-21-2008, 06:26 PM
Possibly the worst O_Line in the history of NFL.

steelpride12
09-21-2008, 06:28 PM
TONY HILLS! Play him move people around fire them all i dont care DO SOMETHING!!!

Sharkissle29
09-21-2008, 06:28 PM
embarrassing performance, but Ben did them no favors by holding on to the ball way too long and giving away two fumbles and a safety.

The playcalling was suspect as well. Didn't see enough screen passes, quick slants, dump-offs, and misdirection plays to keep their pass rush honest.

i agree, you have to blame ben for a few of those sacks. when byron came in he came in firing, dont tell me they were playing a prevent bc on the long pass to heath they brought the house and byron may the read fast and got rid of it. then they went prevent.

steelersfanman92
09-21-2008, 06:28 PM
That was just imbarrassing

Steel_Bus_24
09-21-2008, 06:33 PM
The First couple were on Ben for sure... Then They just went clueless.

And then Ariens thought we weren't sucking enough so he decided to a take our one true weapon against the Eagles(Heath Miller) and motion him into a Full Back...................WTF!!!!! Makes me want to rip my hair out that we would do this. Did they not even watch the fffing MNF where Witten destroyed them???

This might be the biggest clusterF**** of a game our O has ever had with Ben under center.

This is the worst kind of angry for me.....its just absolutely baffles how they couldn't perform the fundamentals out there today.

zsheik22
09-21-2008, 06:33 PM
The fact they dont use Miller more often really annoys me.


He is absolutely fantastic in clutch situations. He's a very intelligent player that can make that play.


Im glad Ben is not dead after the way the O line played. That was just horrible. You open your mouth after you play 2 scrub teams and then you get humiliated.



The best thing about this game was this;


The steelers controlled their own destiny. Winning the game was entirely up to them. The O line just couldnt measure up to the task.


Such is life. Maybe we'll acquire someone that can block.

19ward86
09-21-2008, 06:35 PM
All football players know that you play inside out and i dont know how many times i seen the A-gap bombarded with linebackers and even lineman.

Stlrs4Life
09-21-2008, 06:36 PM
Our OL can basically go F$%JK themselves. Keep your mouth shut, and while you are at it, give this weeks paycheck back, cause you didn't earm it.

Steeldude
09-21-2008, 06:40 PM
hey wait a second, i thought everyone loved this O-line and how great it was against a pathetic texans' team. this kind of play is not new. the steelers O-line did this all last year and prior seasons also.

i have been saying this since 2002, the steelers need to address the O-line seriously. hoping for 4th(and later) rounders and hand-me-down players to play well is not the answer.

don't blame the players entirely. the O-line coach's zone blocking scheme is horrible. did anyone notice players not reacting to the defenders because they weren't in their area? arians deserves blame also for not passing over the middle or using screens.

Stlrs4Life
09-21-2008, 06:41 PM
The First couple were on Ben for sure... Then They just went clueless.

And then Ariens thought we weren't sucking enough so he decided to a take our one true weapon against the Eagles(Heath Miller) and motion him into a Full Back...................WTF!!!!! Makes me want to rip my hair out that we would do this. Did they not even watch the fffing MNF where Witten destroyed them???

This might be the biggest clusterF**** of a game our O has ever had with Ben under center.

This is the worst kind of angry for me.....its just absolutely baffles how they couldn't perform the fundamentals out there today.



BEN had no time at all! This isn't Arians fault. Also, just goes to show you that the pre season guys were right on our assessment of our OL and season. This team is lucky to win 8 games with this OL. And Baltimore is probably licking there chops right about now. (Cause Clevelands OL is better than ours).

fansince'76
09-21-2008, 06:43 PM
i agree, you have to blame ben for a few of those sacks. when byron came in he came in firing, dont tell me they were playing a prevent bc on the long pass to heath they brought the house and byron may the read fast and got rid of it. then they went prevent.

Sorry, they did stop bringing the house on every play by that time.

steelpride12
09-21-2008, 06:45 PM
YOU CANT BLAME ARIANS! He calls the plays run or pass. We couldn't do either because Ben was on the ground all game long.
SHUT UP ABOUT ARIANS!

tony hipchest
09-21-2008, 06:49 PM
:yawn:

:coffee:

:popcorn:

all on me. :tt02: no admission at the door required....

Steeldude
09-21-2008, 06:53 PM
YOU CANT BLAME ARIANS! He calls the plays run or pass. We couldn't do either because Ben was on the ground all game long.
SHUT UP ABOUT ARIANS!


if you aren't selecting the appropriate plays to combat the blitzes then arian is partly to blame too. same goes for the poor halftime adjustments. it's not arians' fault entirely, but he does share in the blame.

VegasStlrFan
09-21-2008, 06:55 PM
the offense blew basic football fundamentals today, no positives after the first drive

Edman
09-21-2008, 06:56 PM
I don't know how you can pin this loss on Arians.

The Offensive Line couldn't block four/five man rushes. So it forced the offense to turtle up and bring in max protect.

This team better get it's shit together. The Ravens are coming to town.

MACH1
09-21-2008, 07:12 PM
the offense blew basic football fundamentals today, no positives after the first drive

The fundamentals start with coaching, specifically the o-line coach. He really had them prepared today.

verks36
09-21-2008, 07:15 PM
speachless they mite as well not even be on the field

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
09-21-2008, 07:17 PM
I really wish they would have pulled our entire line and put in the back up...
Tell them......Go show us what you have.. If you do good you start next week. That was just pathetic

The Duke
09-21-2008, 07:18 PM
this sums up the oline today...

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0921/nfl_a_roethlisberger_412.jpg

Preacher
09-21-2008, 07:23 PM
hey wait a second, i thought everyone loved this O-line and how great it was against a pathetic texans' team. this kind of play is not new. the steelers O-line did this all last year and prior seasons also.

i have been saying this since 2002, the steelers need to address the O-line seriously. hoping for 4th(and later) rounders and hand-me-down players to play well is not the answer.

don't blame the players entirely. the O-line coach's zone blocking scheme is horrible. did anyone notice players not reacting to the defenders because they weren't in their area? arians deserves blame also for not passing over the middle or using screens.

1. His screens kept getting blown up. You don't want to throw a screen for an INT because those can turn into a pick 6 REAL quickly.

2. I agree they need to address their o line. Problem is, there wasn't anyone there at their pick this year.

3. Yes, there was definite scheming problems this game, and the blocking didn't seem to adjust for it.

I guess the only place I disagree here is the blame on Arians. I think it belongs on the oline and its schemes. Time to go back to the board.

Havik
09-21-2008, 07:25 PM
The one thing keeping the Steelers from getting to another Super Bowl is the abomination they call an offensive line. Marvel Smith and Willie Colon need to be replaced, they were terrible. Zierlien is not turning it around, he should be fired. I must say however that the offense looked bad as a whole. Ben held on to the ball too long and didn't show any confidence, the running game stalled, and receivers weren't getting open. The good news is the defense was excellent, and special teams were solid, but unfortunately their efforts weren't enough to win the game.

jasonpirkle
09-21-2008, 07:37 PM
and it appears the band wagon is empty... It was a bad game. it's week 3 and we're 2-1. lighten up

steelpride12
09-21-2008, 07:38 PM
I don't know how you can pin this loss on Arians.

The Offensive Line couldn't block four/five man rushes. So it forced the offense to turtle up and bring in max protect.

This team better get it's shit together. The Ravens are coming to town.

Exactly. Ben couldn't make a play. He honestly didn't have a second to dump the ball off, and Arians can't do much about that.

steelpride12
09-21-2008, 07:40 PM
and it appears the band wagon is empty... It was a bad game. it's week 3 and we're 2-1. lighten up

Our bandwagon fans jump out after every loss and jump back on every win. Ha pathetic yes, we just ignore them.

fansince'76
09-21-2008, 07:55 PM
and it appears the band wagon is empty... It was a bad game. it's week 3 and we're 2-1. lighten up

It almost makes me wish that this team would really go into the tank for a couple of years (I'm thinking 1985-88 type of suckage) so the bandwagon really will clear out. Only problem is, it will fill right back up once the team turned it around again.

HereWeGoSteelers219
09-21-2008, 07:56 PM
With a game like that, where the offensive line is just absolutely manhandled, you have every reason to panic.

It was the worst showing by an Offensive Line I have ever seen. Every play they were pushed back 4 yards into the backfield, and 2 rushers coming in from each side were just untouched.

Worst offensive performance I've seen in a while.

lilyoder6
09-21-2008, 08:02 PM
this game was completely horrible by the off.. hopefully this is out of the line's system and they won't have another game like that ever ever again. ..

klick81
09-21-2008, 08:37 PM
Who the hell is jumping the bandwagon?

When did it become "bandwagon" to call out the obvious flaws that your team needs to address???

I SEE NO ONE JUMPING SHIP HERE.

Best coast Steeler
09-21-2008, 08:39 PM
Our o-line is horrible...hands down, the worst in franchise history!

zsheik22
09-21-2008, 08:51 PM
With a game like that, where the offensive line is just absolutely manhandled, you have every reason to panic.

It was the worst showing by an Offensive Line I have ever seen. Every play they were pushed back 4 yards into the backfield, and 2 rushers coming in from each side were just untouched.

Worst offensive performance I've seen in a while.



Amen. There is a huge difference between sloppy play and what happened today. I hope Tomlin has them in skirts the entire next week of practice and they're forced to cater to Big Ben while he nurses his injuries.


But like I said earlier, the saving grace is the fact that despite all of this crap that the O line calls football, the ball was in the steelers hands to win the game.

SteelersMongol
09-21-2008, 08:59 PM
Chain all the guys from the O-line up, & send em 2 Siberia 4 some tough labor? :popcorn:

stillers4me
09-21-2008, 09:01 PM
I think I saw some spit come out of Tomlin's mouth that one time he was "conversing" with a ref.

I'd really hate to be one of these guys this week.

OX1947
09-21-2008, 09:56 PM
and it appears the band wagon is empty... It was a bad game. it's week 3 and we're 2-1. lighten up

Nah Nah Nah Man, sorry, it wasn't the play calling, it wasn't Ben holding the ball too long, the D was outstanding after the 1st quarter and the special teams was excellent. That O-line cost us this game 100%. And if this line continues to do this, Big Ben will be done this year. I am not exaggerating, this one one of the worst displays of an offensive line I have ever seen in football. Ben didn't even get his 5th foot planted before there was a guy in his face, so the keeping the ball too long argument is irrelevant.

Disgusting football by that line. To have been in that game all the way until the last 4 min of the game was a damn miracle and alot of it had to do with our D and special teams. Just horrible O-line, unfortunately, they are not that good, plain and simple and I just do not know how this will end. Even when they played "well" in the first two games, Ben still got sacked 5 times in those games. Garbage....

\m/xtrememarine\m/
09-21-2008, 10:04 PM
Todays performence was terrible. Big Ben had absolutely no time to throw the ball. You could see the frustration on his face at the end of every series. Need to much better next Monday night.

MilehighSteelerFan
09-21-2008, 10:20 PM
If only Ben could get rid of that ball faster, then again if only someone on the O-line could actually block for the quaterback. EIGHT TIMES, SACKED! EIGHT TIMES are you kidding me. What really annoyed me was when they showed Tomlin clapping it up and trying to be positive.
Seriously how about finding out exactly why it is no one and I mean no one one the O-line can hold a block....how about getting in their face and telling them to step up! Parker can't run, Ben can't throw, hell Ben can barley get the ball. Seems like we were exposed again today. Lucky us we have the RAVENS next.........

SOMEBODY BETTER DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE O_LINE!!!!!!!!!!:banging:

bratsinmybelly
09-21-2008, 10:22 PM
It's just sad and annoying to see the same issue again after seeing it all year last year. In 2007 the o-line was obviously our weak spot. when an organization fails to address such an obvious flaw, it gets what it deserves. I understand that there is only so much you can do in one off season but the reality is that we did basically nothing this off season to address this and well.........the results speak for themselves. I suddenly feel like this season is already in jeopardy and that sucks.

Steeldude
09-21-2008, 10:50 PM
i didn't see any 3-step drops either.

today's performance did not surprise me at all. this is to be expected when you constantly neglect the O-line each year for the last 6 years. it has been a glaring problem for quite awhile. next season we lose smith, essex and possibly kemo and colon. not that losing colon or essex means much, but it does mean you need to find replacements.

the steelers should have went after the cowboy's ex-O-line coach in the off-season.

another thing, BR needs to start yelling at his O-line. i can just hear him now, "the O-line was great. they did their job". i have seen all the great QBs like peyton manning, brady, marino etc... yell at their O-line when they play poorly.

LVSteelersfan
09-21-2008, 10:53 PM
You are paying Max Starks all that money. Put his butt in the game on that right side. Colon and Simmons absolutely suck. It is time to try Stapleton and Starks and see if they can do any better. I don't think we can fix the existing players. They are too pathetic. The defense looked darn good. That Polomolu INT was incredible. We are 2-1 and in first place still. Don't give up quite yet.

fansince'76
09-21-2008, 11:17 PM
It's just sad and annoying to see the same issue again after seeing it all year last year. In 2007 the o-line was obviously our weak spot. when an organization fails to address such an obvious flaw, it gets what it deserves.

But we did address it - we replaced Mahan with Hartwig. After all, Mahan was the only reason the OL underperformed last year, right? :coffee:

MasterOfPuppets
09-21-2008, 11:21 PM
But we did address it - we replaced Mahan with Hartwig. After all, Mahan was the only reason the OL underperformed last year, right? :coffee:
unless hartwig......sucks almost as much as mahan.......hmmmmm:scratchchin:

ricksteelers55
09-22-2008, 01:26 AM
At least if Kreider was still here we could have used him as a lineman lol im sure he's a better blocker than most of them

Boomerang
09-22-2008, 03:53 AM
I fear for Bens health big time if the O line put up any more performances like this one.

millwalldavey
09-22-2008, 05:44 AM
The truly bad part is... we are exposed now.

steelpride12
09-22-2008, 06:13 AM
The o-line is bad and that makes me nervous because the only thing that leads to is injury for Ben.

Edman
09-22-2008, 06:16 AM
The O-Line has been exposed for years now. Dating all the way back to 2006. Ben is on pace to be sacked 50 times this year. It's only going to get worse.

The Steelers will never be an elite team until they get an O-Line with some balls, skill, and nastiness. Until then, they'll just be an above average team that gets hammered by decent teams, especially on the road. Yesterday was a complete extension of last year. No intensity, physicality, or fire in road games. Just lay down and die like smashed roaches the moment the pressure is on. Just the O-Linemen standing like goons as Ben runs for his life.

Yesterday's offensive performance was the worst I ever seen since the Kordell Years.

moedap
09-22-2008, 06:17 AM
Here we go again with blaming the O Line. I dont understand people who just watch the ball. Tomlin, Arians, and Ben shoulder most of the blame for the sacks because they are the ones making the decisions. Tomlin has to know when to challenge Arians playcalling. Arians has to realize they are blowing up the A gaps send Miller to the middle or run straight up the middle. Ben makes the line calls, had the option to audible, and ultimately has the ball in his hands to get rid of it. Go ahead and put all the blame on the O Line if you want but your wrong.

I counted to 3 on most of those sacks. 3 seconds. Tom Brady would have let that ball go in 3 seconds.

Edman
09-22-2008, 06:26 AM
The Eagles were generating pressure rushing three people. That's how poor they are. Even Ben, who is usually very complimentary of the O-Line, couldn't say one good thing about them. That's how bad they played. Multiple False Starts, and guys in Ben's face all game long.

When an offensive line sucks, it limits the playcalling. The Steelers had to turtle up and bring in Max Protect. And that still didn't work. The Steelers Offense reached the red zone ONCE all game.

This Offensieve Line is indefensible, it's a futile effort. They suck.

The_WARDen
09-22-2008, 07:06 AM
The Oline is crap, has been crap, and will be crap because management REFUSES to address it seriously. It is mind-boggling considering they have a $100 million investment behind it. Sorry lemmings, but Mendenhall was a bad selection. He may be a good player eventually but this line was too bad to ignore!!!

On NFL Radio, they brought up something which speaks to how putrid the line really is... Brian Friggin Griese attempted 67 passes and was not sacked ONCE! Big Ben was sacked 9 times in like 20 some attempts.

I'm sure though that if Ben had been quicker, then there wouldn't have been as many!!

The_WARDen
09-22-2008, 07:07 AM
Here we go again with blaming the O Line. I dont understand people who just watch the ball. Tomlin, Arians, and Ben shoulder most of the blame for the sacks because they are the ones making the decisions. Tomlin has to know when to challenge Arians playcalling. Arians has to realize they are blowing up the A gaps send Miller to the middle or run straight up the middle. Ben makes the line calls, had the option to audible, and ultimately has the ball in his hands to get rid of it. Go ahead and put all the blame on the O Line if you want but your wrong.

I counted to 3 on most of those sacks. 3 seconds. Tom Brady would have let that ball go in 3 seconds.

keep drinkin that koolaid!
:banging::banging:

moedap
09-22-2008, 07:46 AM
keep drinkin that koolaid!
:banging::banging:

And you keep drinking that Big Ben kool aid.

fansince'76
09-22-2008, 08:01 AM
Here we go again with blaming the O Line. I dont understand people who just watch the ball. Tomlin, Arians, and Ben shoulder most of the blame for the sacks because they are the ones making the decisions. Tomlin has to know when to challenge Arians playcalling. Arians has to realize they are blowing up the A gaps send Miller to the middle or run straight up the middle. Ben makes the line calls, had the option to audible, and ultimately has the ball in his hands to get rid of it. Go ahead and put all the blame on the O Line if you want but your wrong.

I counted to 3 on most of those sacks. 3 seconds. Tom Brady would have let that ball go in 3 seconds.

More like .03 seconds. Dude, there were guys coming UNBLOCKED all game. If you think there isn't a fundamental problem with the OL, you're delusional.

Steeldude
09-22-2008, 08:26 AM
BR is sacked every 4.53 pass attempts. this ratio would have been worse if BR didn't just make it across the scrimmage on a few of the scrambles.

59 pass attempts
13 sacks

i believe those numbers are correct.

this is what i and a few others have been talking about. the O-line needs to be seriously addressed. it's not just the players that need looking at, it's the O-line coach too. that blocking scheme is horrendous. IMO, the steelers should have went after O-line coach hudson houck . he was the O-line of the dallas cowboys during from 1993-01. unfortunatley he is back with the cowboys. you know, the team that didn't allow a sack against the eagles' defense a week ago.

i doubt the steelers will spend any of their first day 2009 draft picks on the O-line. do not be surprised if the steelers take a WR or a TE with their first pick.

memphissteelergirl
09-22-2008, 08:32 AM
I left the bar where I was watching the game in total disgust. This was an embarrasing performance. The most offensive offensive line I have ever seen. Ever.

I know Ben feels as the leader of the offense he has to blame a bad performance on himself alot, and I have no problem with that. But damn! A leader also has to let those around him that they are missing the mark. Ben, this is not a time to talk up your o-line. They have not earned it. Call these guys out!! NOW!! :mad:

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2008, 08:36 AM
embarrassing performance, but Ben did them no favors by holding on to the ball way too long and giving away two fumbles and a safety.

The playcalling was suspect as well. Didn't see enough screen passes, quick slants, dump-offs, and misdirection plays to keep their pass rush honest.

Exactly how I feel.

Why is it that when Dallas blitzed Green Bay last night, I saw Aaron Rodgers throwing the slant instantly?? Why is it when the Eagles blitzed 6 in the 4th quarter, I see Leftwich hit a quick pass to Heath Miller for a good gain.

The coaches did nothing to adjust to the blitzes, Ben did nothing to get the ball out quickly and there were times where the Eagles blitzed 6 and both Hartwig and Simmons blocked nobody like 2 stooges.

All around poor performance.

Steeldude
09-22-2008, 08:37 AM
i'm not sure if everyone here has heard of this writer in the link below. each week he analyzes each lineman and gives a synopsis on pluses and negatives.

here is the link...

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/09/22/what-a-debacle-steelers-o-line-falls-apart-against-eagles/#cont

he'll have more later in the week.

The_WARDen
09-22-2008, 08:41 AM
More like .03 seconds. Dude, there were guys coming UNBLOCKED all game. If you think there isn't a fundamental problem with the OL, you're delusional.

It's Ben's fault. Don't you know he's supposed to get the ball out in 0.3 seconds??? Why have time to survey the field? Just throw slants every play...

tony hipchest
09-22-2008, 08:43 AM
a tight end would be nice. especially one who isnt a big bulky dude used just for blocking.

i was amazed when miami let hudson houck go that we didnt snatch him up. releasing him was like parcells giving a free gift to the league. i dont care how loyal tomlin is to larry z. when you have a chance to upgrade, you do it.

however, dallas does have the biggest line in the league and i have no idea how j. jones manages to stay under the cap. it doesnt hurt to add a great position coach though.

roostermcw
09-22-2008, 08:49 AM
That was quite possibly the worst display of pass protection, run blocking and just plain offensive footbal I believe I have ever witnessed. Still sick to my stomach. I pray this was a wake up call for them, if not Baltimore will have their way once again.

roostermcw
09-22-2008, 09:02 AM
Thats true. Every team we play will make this game film mandatory viewing. We have been OUTED!

drizze99
09-22-2008, 09:02 AM
I'm a die hard Stiller fan living near Philly.... I swear someone at my work place is going to get their ass beat today...

OK, yesterday's game was very frustrating to say the least. I have NEVER in my 35 years of watching Stiller ball witnessed a Stiller O-line play so horrible. Big Ben better get a big ass life insurance policy because he is going to need it after this season.

I just don't get it... was Arians paying attention to the game at all? Was he watching our franchise QB get thrown around like a rag doll? I did not like the play calling at all yesterday. Sometimes I wonder what goes through his head when he makes a play call. Our offense was a complete failure yesterday from top to bottom.

The O-line was swiss cheese and left so many guys through unblocked.

Big Ben needed a quick release yesterday instead of holding onto the ball forever.

Arians play calling needed to burn all the blitzing and it didn't. I hated the play calling.

Now, since the NFL is a copy cat league and Harbaugh (Ravens Coach) was formerly on the Eagles coaching staff, who thinks Big Ben will last the entire game next week?

rbryan
09-22-2008, 09:10 AM
Wheres all the fans that loved that one two punch on draft day now??? Lets not forget Dixon at #5, although I'm not sure that maybe putting him in yesterday might not have been a bad idea after the first half dozen sacks. At least he might have been able to outrun somebody.

"There were no quality OL available, every option at that point would have been a reach."

Well reach around and pat yourself on the back now. Mendy and Sweed are really tearing it up aren't they?? Who needs OL?? Nobody has any of those on thier fantasy team.

Edman
09-22-2008, 09:20 AM
Wheres all the fans that loved that one two punch on draft day now??? Lets not forget Dixon at #5, although I'm not sure that maybe putting him in yesterday might not have been a bad idea after the first half dozen sacks. At least he might have been able to outrun somebody.

"There were no quality OL available, every option at that point would have been a reach."

Well reach around and pat yourself on the back now. Mendy and Sweed are really tearing it up aren't they?? Who needs OL?? Nobody has any of those on thier fantasy team.

Now sit down and think for a moment here.

No rookie lineman we drafted would've played better, in fact, he wouldn't even be starting right now.

Rick5895
09-22-2008, 09:23 AM
They were all horrible yesterday (oline) I agree Starks should be given the opportunity, he did a good job in 2005 when we won the superbowl.
Watching i didn't think they were mentally ready to play, way too many false starts, which dictates the tempo of the defense aswell.
The offensive coaches made no adjustments to the pressure, something, that HA S TO BE DONE when this happens.
I am not worried about the Ravens we will be fine.

rbryan
09-22-2008, 09:25 AM
So whose starting next year and the year after that??? Maybe we should never worry about drafting OL since they aren't going to start for a year or two. FWIW I've been calling for drafting OL for the past 3 years to no avail.

Steelers have shown in the past that they don't have a problem moving up to draft other positions, ie Troy, Holmes. Time to put that kind of focus on the OL. And yes there are OL that start as rookies in the league every year.

Leftoverhard
09-22-2008, 09:35 AM
I couldn't get over the play calling, even up until the last second of that game, it looks like someone took a brain vacation yesterday.
Who was it, Cowher? that said something like, It's not a bad thing to lose like this early in the season because it wakes people up and they remember that feeling and they never want to have it again.
I think that sounds reasonable - but I still hate watching it and it's hard to feel optimistic about next week.

tony hipchest
09-22-2008, 09:46 AM
Steelers have shown in the past that they don't have a problem moving up to draft other positions, ie Troy, Holmes. Time to put that kind of focus on the OL. And yes there are OL that start as rookies in the league every year.clady of the broncos comes to mind. if the system is too tough for rookies to pick up, then the system needs to be changes.

i isay this just for offense, cause lebeaus defense is doing fine, despite not being able to plug in rookies the 1st year.

Godfather
09-22-2008, 09:47 AM
The Maginot Line.

That captures about how effective they are.

rbryan
09-22-2008, 09:58 AM
My wife rarely watches the games with me and doesn't know anything about football. Her observation was that the entire offense including Ben looked like they were out partying the night before and all hung over......lol

Lets hope she was right and chalk this up to that. I hate to think that they could look this bad for any other reason.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2008, 10:00 AM
Now sit down and think for a moment here.

No rookie lineman we drafted would've played better, in fact, he wouldn't even be starting right now.

Very competent post.

There were no good OT's left at #23 pick. Cherilus is struggling mightily in Detroit, we saw what Duane Brown offers the Texans as a rookie. The only possible improvement on draft day would have been to either spend the 3rd rounder on Anthony Collins (Bengals) or Carl Nicks(Saints). Collins is on the bench in Cinci and Nicks has surprised and played well at guard and RT.

Just as the opening day blowout of the Texans was the Steelers playing above themselves, this was the players (and coaches) performing well below themselves.

stlrtruck
09-22-2008, 10:12 AM
Ladies and gentleman it's one bad game and yes it ended with Ben getting x-rays on his throwing hand.
Not every game is going to be a perfect game. Look at the 2005 season, there were a few games that year that were complete meltdowns.
While I'm not thrilled that they gave up 8 sacks in a game or that we're facing another tough D on Monday night, I'm confident that they'll get it fixed, at least enough to make it into the playoffs.
And I do agree that the front office needs to looks deeply into the front line come off-season and draft day.
Bottom line there is little they can do about it now. Trying to patchwork and band-aid it now could cause more problems than solutions.

stlrtruck
09-22-2008, 10:13 AM
My wife rarely watches the games with me and doesn't know anything about football. Her observation was that the entire offense including Ben looked like they were out partying the night before and all hung over......lol


Ben was pulling a "Varsity Blues" stunt? :drink:

steelpride12
09-22-2008, 10:18 AM
Steelers have shown in the past that they don't have a problem moving up to draft other positions, ie Troy, Holmes. Time to put that kind of focus on the OL. And yes there are OL that start as rookies in the league every year.

Ok exactly. If we would just one draft choose a lineman in the first three picks we could have solid young line.
Not to mention other than Colon who needs to go there all aging and a young line is what is around the league.

The Rooney's have always made wise choices in the draft seeming to pick good players, so if we took linemen in the first three rounds they would def. be smart choices.

The_WARDen
09-22-2008, 10:18 AM
Now sit down and think for a moment here.

No rookie lineman we drafted would've played better, in fact, he wouldn't even be starting right now.

That my be true for game #3, but at least there would potentially be a light at the end of the tunnel. Right now, there is no future star on that line.

the_king_from_leon
09-22-2008, 10:20 AM
It looked as porous as a sponge yesterday, I was gutted found a channel on Spanish TV that was showing it and sat up to the early hours to watch one of the worst performances the O-Line has produced!

rbryan
09-22-2008, 10:25 AM
When you look at the teams that are on top, one thing is constant. They all have a huge talented OLine that can control the LOS. Steelers used to be one of those teams, but for whatever reason have gone away from that formula the past 3 or 4 years.

missedgehead
09-22-2008, 10:26 AM
embarrassing performance, but Ben did them no favors by holding on to the ball way too long and giving away two fumbles and a safety.

The playcalling was suspect as well. Didn't see enough screen passes, quick slants, dump-offs, and misdirection plays to keep their pass rush honest.

:applaudit::applaudit: Agreed. The O line was horrible, but Ben's subpar performance also contributed to the sacks also.

fansince'76
09-22-2008, 10:32 AM
:applaudit::applaudit: Agreed. The O line was horrible, but Ben's subpar performance also contributed to the sacks also.

Ben probably wouldn't have had a subpar performance if the OL actually earned their keep and gave him time.

rbryan
09-22-2008, 10:35 AM
The hardest thing for me to accept about yesterdays performance is that the Cowboys put up 40 against this same defense the week before.

missedgehead
09-22-2008, 10:44 AM
More like .03 seconds. Dude, there were guys coming UNBLOCKED all game. If you think there isn't a fundamental problem with the OL, you're delusional.

So you don't think Ben is also part of the problem? I agree the O line is a HUGE problem. What you saw is the result of the IDIOTIC FRONT OFFICE listening to our QB and getting him PLAYMAKERS like Mendenhall who, surprise, surprise dropped the ball that was thrown to him, and Sweed INSTEAD of TRYING to beef up the O LINE. Our QB was whining that our receivers were not tall enough so the front office placated him instead of trying to beef up the o line and that is what you get. There were SEVERAL sacks where Ben SHOULD HAVE THROWN the ball away! Ben also FUMBLED the ball TWICE, or does that not count? The O line is not all to blame. They are alot of the blame, but not all.

fansince'76
09-22-2008, 10:46 AM
So you don't think Ben is also part of the problem? I agree the O line is a HUGE problem. What you saw is the result of the IDIOTIC FRONT OFFICE listening to our QB and getting him PLAYMAKERS like Mendenhall who, surprise, surprise dropped the ball that was thrown to him, and Sweed INSTEAD of TRYING to beef up the O LINE. Our QB was whining that our receivers were not tall enough so the front office placated him instead of trying to beef up the o line and that is what you get. There were SEVERAL sacks where Ben SHOULD HAVE THROWN the ball away! Ben also FUMBLED the ball TWICE, or does that not count? The O line is not all to blame. They are alot of the blame, but not all.

This post is so misinformed and off-base, I'm not even going to bother.

missedgehead
09-22-2008, 10:47 AM
Ben probably wouldn't have had a subpar performance if the OL actually earned their keep and gave him time.


Ok, in your opinion, Ben is totally blameless for the team's poor performance. He is not part of the team then. Whatever. Ben was totally perfect. Whatever. :noidea:

fansince'76
09-22-2008, 10:48 AM
Ok, in your opinion, Ben is totally blameless for the team's poor performance. He is not part of the team then. Whatever. Ben was totally perfect. Whatever. :noidea:

Yeah, it was Ben's fault that 3 guys were on top of him all day as soon as he took the snap. Whatever.

rbryan
09-22-2008, 10:51 AM
Theres enough blame to go around for everyone on this one.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2008, 10:52 AM
This post is so misinformed and off-base, I'm not even going to bother.

Actually, you did bother and it does have some merit.

Why is it that Byron Leftwich can throw a quick strike to Heath Miller in the face of a 6-man blitz in the 4th quarter, but Ben routinely cannot??

What is misinformed it thinking the blame for a bad performance should only be blamed on 1 thing.

MACH1
09-22-2008, 10:53 AM
Ok, in your opinion, Ben is totally blameless for the team's poor performance. He is not part of the team then. Whatever. Ben was totally perfect. Whatever. :noidea:

Compared to the stellar performance from the line. Its easy to be a armchair qb.

fansince'76
09-22-2008, 10:54 AM
Actually, you did bother and it does have some merit.

Why is it that Byron Leftwich can throw a quick strike to Heath Miller in the face of a 6-man blitz in the 4th quarter, but Ben routinely cannot??

What is misinformed it thinking the blame for a bad performance should only be blamed on 1 thing.

Sorry, I didn't see Leftwich facing the constant blitzing that Ben did, and did he also not take a sack himself? And I was referring more to the garbage about Ben whining for receivers as the reason the FO neglected the OL. Rubbish.

rbryan
09-22-2008, 10:55 AM
I blame the Iggles, they probably sent a busload of hookers to the Steelers hotel the night before.....lol

I'm going to go with that explanation....otherwise I might jump off a bridge.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2008, 10:55 AM
Yeah, it was Ben's fault that 3 guys were on top of him all day as soon as he took the snap. Whatever.

Funny that in last nights Packer game, the Cowboys were on top of Rodger a few times, but he had already thrown a quick slant to Driver, Jennings, etc.

I dont know if its our offensive scheme, Ben or what.

Just think for a minute if we defensively blitzed like the Eagles did to other teams......what would McNabb, Romo, Brady, Manning, Hasselbeck, etc do???

steelreserve
09-22-2008, 10:59 AM
The line was pretty awful, but they looked a lot worse because:

1. Like always, Parker still bounces backward off the pile instead of pushing forward for 3-4 yards. So every time we play against a good team, he ends up with something like 29 yards on 16 carries and the defense doesn't need to take our running game seriously;
2. Ben does not know when to THROW THE F***ING BALL ALREADY.

Granted, some of the sacks he basically had no chance on. But there were probably 15 times where he escaped a sack by scrambling, then either skipped the ball to his receiver on one hop, or simply didn't throw the ball and got sacked anyway. If you're a QB who makes plays by scrambling, it helps if you actually make plays when you scramble, not just sit there like a dumb shit.

I also don't think they were helped by the fact that every time the Eagles rushed a linebacker, the tight ends and running backs just seemed to ignore it and let him have a clear path.

That's not to excuse the piss-poor play by the line; they were terrible. But it's not like we can just bring in five new guys right now; hopefully we learn from some of the other mistakes and get better.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2008, 11:00 AM
Sorry, I didn't see Leftwich facing the constant blitzing that Ben did, and did he also not take a sack himself? And I was referring more to the garbage about Ben whining for receivers as the reason the FO neglected the OL. Rubbish.

I rewatched a few plays when Leftwich came in and no, he didnt face the constant stuff, but was only in for a series so its tough to tell. Yeah he got sacked once and should have thrown in away.

The long gain by Miller was a 6-man blitz and an excellent quick read by Leftwich. Ben needs to look for more of those, or we need to have more in the playbook rather than looking downfield for the big play.

Quick passes to Ward, Miller, Spaeth were completely ignored in this gameplan.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2008, 11:05 AM
Anybody notice that the Steelers splits on the O line were rather wide in passing downs??

By splits, I mean the distance between 2 linemen. In a FG, they are tight so you cant get between the blockers, where as on an offensive play you have more space so there are holes for the RB to run.

If they are too wide, then defenders can shoot the gaps. I havent watched the entire game over, but noticed some passes that they were really wide, which made the blitzing easier.

Coach Z. should consider tightening them up on obvious passing downs.

Steel_12
09-22-2008, 11:06 AM
I rewatched a few plays when Leftwich came in and no, he didnt face the constant stuff, but was only in for a series so its tough to tell. Yeah he got sacked once and should have thrown in away.

The long gain by Miller was a 6-man blitz and an excellent quick read by Leftwich. Ben needs to look for more of those, or we need to have more in the playbook rather than looking downfield for the big play.

Quick passes to Ward, Miller, Spaeth were completely ignored in this gameplan.

I can't understand that either. Why weren't there more quick slants thrown? I mean, EVERYBODY saw when they were going to blitz...why not audible? It's frustrating as hell watching Ben just pumpfake 3 times before he takes a sack...throw the damn ball away!

steelreserve
09-22-2008, 11:12 AM
I can't understand that either. Why weren't there more quick slants thrown? I mean, EVERYBODY saw when they were going to blitz...why not audible? It's frustrating as hell watching Ben just pumpfake 3 times before he takes a sack...throw the damn ball away!

Exactly. We had half the game or more to see what was happening and call some different plays.

I mean, really, how hard is it to figure out that when the defense is getting to your quarterback with blitzes, you should do something other than try to throw 40-yard bombs on every pass play.

You know that commercial for Madden 09, where Ben gets sacked by 6 guys while trying to throw a Hail Mary on 4th-and-26, and Madden is laughing at the play calling? That was us yesterday, only in real life.

Steel_12
09-22-2008, 11:13 AM
Anybody notice that the Steelers splits on the O line were rather wide in passing downs??

By splits, I mean the distance between 2 linemen. In a FG, they are tight so you cant get between the blockers, where as on an offensive play you have more space so there are holes for the RB to run.

If they are too wide, then defenders can shoot the gaps. I havent watched the entire game over, but noticed some passes that they were really wide, which made the blitzing easier.

Coach Z. should consider tightening them up on obvious passing downs.

I see what you're saying but they had people coming from the edges too. If we tighten up the line, that'll make it harder for Marvel to get out and hit the blitzer coming from the edge. We just need to work harder on communication.

Dino 6 Rings
09-22-2008, 11:15 AM
here is what I will say about this game, then I shall move on.

The offensive coordinator and oline coach did a horrible job of adjusting play calling to pick up the blitzes. The Eagles did an amazing job sending different guys every play, hats off to them. They did things they hadn't done in their 1st two games with their blitzes.

Our play calling was obvious and easy to determine. We went away from the run too early and never established a push on the line of scrimmage which was a complete mess from the first pass play to the last pass play.

The Defense was great and if Ike Taylor catches that very bad pass from McNabb that was thrown too low, and takes it to the house, game over. The Defense was great. Every part of it played fantastic except for one td drive.

Special teams were pretty good too including a 53 yard career long FG by Reed. The punt return game needs work however, but everything else was good.

Now...next up...the Ravens. Nothing else matters. I leave it to the coaches to adjust their game plan to the Ravens and their blitzing schemes.

rbryan
09-22-2008, 11:24 AM
After getting sacked like that why would you keep calling the same plays??? Run three times and punt if you have to, thats still better than getting your QB killed. I agree they gave up on the run too fast. I was still holding out hope that WP was going to bust the blitz at least one time and take it to the house.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2008, 11:27 AM
I see what you're saying but they had people coming from the edges too. If we tighten up the line, that'll make it harder for Marvel to get out and hit the blitzer coming from the edge. We just need to work harder on communication.

Sorry, but the defensive line actually sets its position from where the O lines up. The concept of using shorter splits is actually pretty basic pass protection concept. The idea is to not let anybody up the middle and create a "Pocket". It forces the rush to come from the outside.

The last thing you want Marvel to do is "get out" to hit a blitzer, because it allows the guy lined up on him (Cole) a shorter route to Ben.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2008, 11:30 AM
The offensive coordinator and oline coach did a horrible job of adjusting play calling to pick up the blitzes.

.

Simple, accurate and to the point!! :applaudit:

steelreserve
09-22-2008, 11:41 AM
Our play calling was obvious and easy to determine. We went away from the run too early and never established a push on the line of scrimmage which was a complete mess from the first pass play to the last pass play.


It seems like we've had a problem with stale gameplans and play-calling ever since we won the Super Bowl. Other teams have no problem changing their strategy in the middle of the game; the good ones even change plays at the line.

Do we do that when the gameplan isn't working? No; we seem to have an aversion to putting in different guys or varying from the scheme we had in mind before the game started. We just stick with Parker up the middle for no gain, holding penalty, incomplete pass, sack, punt.

steelreserve
09-22-2008, 11:49 AM
Anybody notice that the Steelers splits on the O line were rather wide in passing downs??

By splits, I mean the distance between 2 linemen. In a FG, they are tight so you cant get between the blockers, where as on an offensive play you have more space so there are holes for the RB to run.

If they are too wide, then defenders can shoot the gaps. I havent watched the entire game over, but noticed some passes that they were really wide, which made the blitzing easier.

Coach Z. should consider tightening them up on obvious passing downs.

In summary: The offensive line f*cked up. I don't know if this was the specific problem or something else was, but we can probably all agree it wouldn't hurt to change that up.

Steel_12
09-22-2008, 11:55 AM
Sorry, but the defensive line actually sets its position from where the O lines up. The concept of using shorter splits is actually pretty basic pass protection concept. The idea is to not let anybody up the middle and create a "Pocket". It forces the rush to come from the outside.

The last thing you want Marvel to do is "get out" to hit a blitzer, because it allows the guy lined up on him (Cole) a shorter route to Ben.

If they overload Marvel's side and we don't have a back or TE to catch the blitz, then Marvel will have to get the outside man. The O line will have to adjust and communicate.

Avoid LLoyd1975
09-22-2008, 12:12 PM
The fact they dont use Miller more often really annoys me.


He is absolutely fantastic in clutch situations. He's a very intelligent player that can make that play.

Im glad Ben is not dead after the way the O line played. That was just horrible. You open your mouth after you play 2 scrub teams and then you get humiliated.



The best thing about this game was this;


The steelers controlled their own destiny. Winning the game was entirely up to them. The O line just couldnt measure up to the task.


Such is life. Maybe we'll acquire someone that can block.

I predicted Heath to have a big game yesterday. You can't really tell if the play was going to go in his direction or not because Ben was on his back all day.

hey wait a second, i thought everyone loved this O-line and how great it was against a pathetic texans' team. this kind of play is not new. the steelers O-line did this all last year and prior seasons also.

i have been saying this since 2002, the steelers need to address the O-line seriously. hoping for 4th(and later) rounders and hand-me-down players to play well is not the answer.

don't blame the players entirely. the O-line coach's zone blocking scheme is horrible. did anyone notice players not reacting to the defenders because they weren't in their area? arians deserves blame also for not passing over the middle or using screens.

I noticed that big time brother. I remember the over head view of one play that Hartwig and Kemo slid to the left where nobody was at while the blizting eagle ran right past them, waved, blew a kiss, stole their lunch money and went in completely unscathed for the sack.

tony hipchest
09-22-2008, 12:12 PM
Anybody notice that the Steelers splits on the O line were rather wide in passing downs??

By splits, I mean the distance between 2 linemen. In a FG, they are tight so you cant get between the blockers, where as on an offensive play you have more space so there are holes for the RB to run.

If they are too wide, then defenders can shoot the gaps. I havent watched the entire game over, but noticed some passes that they were really wide, which made the blitzing easier.

Coach Z. should consider tightening them up on obvious passing downs.ill have to look for that on the review.

also worth looking for-

a caller said he noticed that hartwig is always looking at ben through his legs before he hikes. then he raises his head to snap the ball, and 2 seconds after the head raise the ball is delivered. im not sure if he meant on every snap or just silent counts, but could it be so simple as hartwig telegraphing every snap that the eagles have picked up on after a few game tapes studied?

i mean not telegraphing the snap is elementary and needs to be immediately fixed (quick and simple) if that is the case.

LVSteelersfan
09-22-2008, 12:17 PM
ill have to look for that on the review.

also worth looking for-

a caller said he noticed that hartwig is always looking at ben through his legs before he hikes. then he raises his head to snap the ball, and 2 seconds after the head raise the ball is delivered. im not sure if he meant on every snap or just silent counts, but could it be so simple as hartwig telegraphing every snap that the eagles have picked up on after a few game tapes studied?

i mean not telegraphing the snap is elementary and needs to be immediately fixed (quick and simple) if that is the case.

It is virtually impossible to not know when the snap is going to happen when they snap it with one second left on EVERY FREAKIN PLAY. Do some quick snaps and some damn no huddle. Anything to change it up a little bit. Arians is a moron and the FO is stupid for keeping him after that mess from last season. He is not a good game day coach when it comes to adjustments.

ricksteelers55
09-22-2008, 01:23 PM
First of all someone said earlier that Tom Brady's pass are already unload in 3 seconds,my answer is this....Yeah we saw that in the last superbowl ....he got killed and got less pressure than Ben got yesterday

now for those who are easily putting the blame on the O-Line,let's not forget the playcalling that was awful.It was 10-6 ....freaking 10 to 6 ...the game was still reachable,and we ran like what 4 times in the 2nd half ? Your 100 million QB is getting killed and you keep throwing him in ? Give the ball to your RB put a FB in front of him and try to get as much yds as you can,if you dont get the 1st down by the 3rd down then you may try a pass with maximum protection and you ask your QB to quickly get rid of the ball if nothing's open and you feel the heat,then it becomes a fight for field positions with your Punter against their Punter cause you know your D is playing well.

Now really I'm not in the panic mode as most of you are because it's only one game,we got sacked 8 times 2 years ago against the Rat Birds,and we kept winning games last year with a ''worst'' O-Line than the 2006 season.So yeah we probably are going to see more pass rush in the next couple of games because this league is a copy cat league,and we'll probably have tough times to run on monday because the Ravens might have a better Run D than the Eagles IMO,but their offense are nowhere near the Eagles offense.

And finally for those saying....Mendenhall dropped a ball what a bad pick it was...Yeah we can say that,the guy hasnt even had a carry since the blowout agains Houston when they knew we were going to run.He still had a 11 yd reception which was probably one of our longest play of the game.

I still believe that the O-Line will adjust and play decently for the rest of the year,I'm not going to be in the negative bandwagon,I'm instead going to give credit to the eagles defense who are fast and and talented and exploit are weaknesses,but not all teams have the eagles front 7 to do so.

Go Steelers !!!!

ricksteelers55
09-22-2008, 01:27 PM
Funny that in last nights Packer game, the Cowboys were on top of Rodger a few times, but he had already thrown a quick slant to Driver, Jennings, etc.

I dont know if its our offensive scheme, Ben or what.

Just think for a minute if we defensively blitzed like the Eagles did to other teams......what would McNabb, Romo, Brady, Manning, Hasselbeck, etc do???

BR is a winner,yes he holds on to the ball probably a little bit too long,but that's also what gives him HUUUGE play sometimes,but yeah of course he'll makes bad too.

stop comparing those teams,Steelers dont have Cowboys,Patriots,Colts or Seahawks O-Line to begin with

moedap
09-22-2008, 01:37 PM
First of all someone said earlier that Tom Brady's pass are already unload in 3 seconds,my answer is this....Yeah we saw that in the last superbowl ....he got killed and got less pressure than Ben got yesterday
Go Steelers !!!!


I said that and yes when the blitz is on he does unload in 3 seconds or less. The problem for him in the Superbowl was the Giants were getting pressure with a 4 man rush which leaves 7 to cover the receivers. Ben was seeing a dog rush which is a 5 man rush and blitzes which are 6 man rushes(side note: Rarely do the Steelers "blitz" we dog rush most of the time. 2 LB rushing with the 3 down lineman). I know Ben is the face of the Steelers right now but his 100 million dollar contract limits getting a premier OLineman unless you draft one. And we all know there were none to be had with our draft position. My point once and for all: Stop putting all the blame on the O line. Tomlin had a better vantage point than any of you and when he says he places the blame on the offense as a whole he was including himself, Arians, Ben, the RBs, the receivers and the O line.

Rotorhead
09-22-2008, 01:51 PM
After reading several pages of what seems to be craziness I wrote up a long rebuttal to alot of comments, but then my pc crashed and instead of repyting it all I will just offer my analysis:
Blame goes this way - 90% Oline, 9% Playcaling/etc, 1% Ben

So here is my breakdown, 1st the Eagles didnt blitz near as much against Dallas, not even close, so there is no comparison there. I don't know if they changed their def because of the Cowboys or because of the Steelers. There was simply too many for our Oline to block, we SHOULD have gone into max protection alot earlier and think it was a good decision/adjustment at the half. Ben holding on to the ball too long? Well it is moot when there are 2-3 ppl running full speed at you unblocked through the middle of the line, he didnt have a chance to think, read, check or even catch the snap and run. As for playcalling slants . . . well the screen is supposed to negate a heavy blitz and we didnt even have enough time for that, cant throw a slant through a guy that is in your fast just as the ball is reaching your hands. Second half we should have faired better, but Ben did have happy feet in the pocket (not blaming him, after getting sacked 6x in the second quarter I would to) not to mention the timing for everyone was off. Leftwich completed 1 pass under the blitz, the others were against what Dallas saw after a couple of those completed, he saw what Ben saw and saw sacked. I doubt we come across that same type of blitz again, and if we do, we will go into max protection faster and fair better.

fansince'76
09-22-2008, 01:53 PM
I said that and yes when the blitz is on he does unload in 3 seconds or less. The problem for him in the Superbowl was the Giants were getting pressure with a 4 man rush which leaves 7 to cover the receivers.

Hate to break it to you, but the Giants blitzed plenty in the SB (http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story;jsessionid=7F5E2EEDB9297F42BBD9B0D21D24990C? id=09000d5d8067edb1&template=with-video&confirm=true):

When Spagnuolo showed the four-man rush and surprised the Patriots with a blitzer, the blitzer came clean almost every time.

When he showed the blitz and dropped players out into coverage, the four-man front took over. The best example of this was in the first half on a play in which it looked like Patriots tight end Benjamin Watson was going to be open. But defensive end Osi Umenyiora dropped into coverage to take it away. Tom Brady hesitated, and Strahan got the sack.

So, I guess the mighty Brady holds the ball too long too?

I know Ben is the face of the Steelers right now but his 100 million dollar contract limits getting a premier OLineman unless you draft one. And we all know there were none to be had with our draft position. My point once and for all: Stop putting all the blame on the O line.

By the same token, why don't you give it a rest as well and stop putting all of it on Ben?

moedap
09-22-2008, 02:09 PM
Hate to break it to you, but the Giants blitzed plenty in the SB (http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story;jsessionid=7F5E2EEDB9297F42BBD9B0D21D24990C? id=09000d5d8067edb1&template=with-video&confirm=true):





So, I guess the mighty Brady holds the ball too long too?



By the same token, why don't you give it a rest as well and stop putting all of it on Ben?



Where in my posts did I say all the blame goes to Ben. I said he shouders some blame because 1. he makes the line calls 2. he has the option to audible and 3. he holds the ball too long . I think you need to stop being a Big Ben nut hugger and critique his play with as much vigor as you have critiqued the O line.

memphissteelergirl
09-22-2008, 02:12 PM
Ben holding on to the ball too long? Well it is moot when there are 2-3 ppl running full speed at you unblocked through the middle of the line, he didnt have a chance to think, read, check or even catch the snap and run.

Amen, brother! :thumbsup: I admit I think Ben sometimes doesn't know when to throw the ball away when all the receivers are covered, but you don't have much time to think about that when you got a collective half-ton of defensive linemen coming at you at 50mph.

fansince'76
09-22-2008, 02:13 PM
Where in my posts did I say all the blame goes to Ben. I said he shouders some blame because 1. he makes the line calls 2. he has the option to audible and 3. he holds the ball too long . I think you need to stop being a Big Ben nut hugger and critique his play with as much vigor as you have critiqued the O line.

OK, maybe not all of it, but more than what he was due. To exonerate the OL of all blame is absolutely, 100% wrong. You need to stop hugging the OL's collective nutsack yourself.

Here we go again with blaming the O Line. I dont understand people who just watch the ball. Tomlin, Arians, and Ben shoulder most of the blame for the sacks because they are the ones making the decisions....I counted to 3 on most of those sacks. 3 seconds. Tom Brady would have let that ball go in 3 seconds.

The_WARDen
09-22-2008, 02:19 PM
Shouldn't the QB have time to survey the field? Really, do you see how much time other QBs like Manning/Brady/Romo get? They shouldn't have to block for 5 seconds but damn, Ben should be able to go through his progressions at least.

I do know this, somehow Tampa threw the ball 67 times yesterday and didn't give up a sack against a good Bears defense...not one sack!

As far as running quick slants all the time, isn't that the west coast offense? I live here in Philly and have to watch that drek more than I care to watch it.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2008, 03:38 PM
BR is a winner,yes he holds on to the ball probably a little bit too long,but that's also what gives him HUUUGE play sometimes,but yeah of course he'll makes bad too.

stop comparing those teams,Steelers dont have Cowboys,Patriots,Colts or Seahawks O-Line to begin with

I never said Ben wasnt a "winner". I am questioning why it is that other teams with efficient passing games will counter a blitz with a quick release to a receiver in a short route and often get positive yards on the blitz. Is it offensive scheme, Ben holding onto the ball or WR's not recognizing the route????

It is granted that if 6 or more blitz, then somebody is gonna be unblocked. The O line has to pickup the most immediate defenders and the ball has to be thrown quickly.....but that isnt happening.

I will continue to compare to teams like that. The Seahawks, Packers, Colts or Patriots dont have any better linemen than the Steelers.....they just play better or are coached better. I believe that Cowboys, Redskins, Vikings, Chargers, Eagles have acquired better talent on the line.

BurghZ0n3
09-22-2008, 04:29 PM
Oh, how I miss Dermonti (Dawson) & Co.....

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2008, 04:58 PM
Oh, how I miss Dermonti (Dawson) & Co.....

Dawson, John Jackson, Brendon Stai, Justin Strelzyk and Roger Duffy??

If those 5 guys faced a 6 man blitz and the game plan was to run deep patterns that require a 5-7 step drop or shotgun snap, they would have the same problem.

Better yet, if they made the halftime adjustment of keeping wide line splits and then just keeping Mark Breuner in the backfield to block......they might only give up 7 sackss because Breuner was a great blocker.

Bad gameplan, poor offensive execution and minimal halftime adjustments.

Best coast Steeler
09-22-2008, 05:42 PM
Nah Nah Nah Man, sorry, it wasn't the play calling, it wasn't Ben holding the ball too long, the D was outstanding after the 1st quarter and the special teams was excellent. That O-line cost us this game 100%. And if this line continues to do this, Big Ben will be done this year. I am not exaggerating, this one one of the worst displays of an offensive line I have ever seen in football. Ben didn't even get his 5th foot planted before there was a guy in his face, so the keeping the ball too long argument is irrelevant.

Disgusting football by that line. To have been in that game all the way until the last 4 min of the game was a damn miracle and alot of it had to do with our D and special teams. Just horrible O-line, unfortunately, they are not that good, plain and simple and I just do not know how this will end. Even when they played "well" in the first two games, Ben still got sacked 5 times in those games. Garbage....

I disagree with the first part of this post. How you just gonna just blame the oline? I think it starts with the playcalling. You dont continue to try and throw downfield with all those slow developing plays when the defense is bringing the kitchen sink. If there werent counters for all out blitzes then every team would employ that defense. You have to be able to match up and adjust my friends, thats the name of the game. Just like you'd do in a fight. You make adjustments. Its a chess match. Though our line sucked royally, they were only part of the problem. You have to as a coach, you put your offense in a better position to make some plays instead having your qb dropping back and getting teed off on!
Ben and the skill players have to make some adjustments and some hot reads to beat the blitz as well. I think they got punked as a whole. They got outmanned physically and beat up. We got outcoached and out played on offense!

danreeve
09-22-2008, 05:45 PM
Has there not been a lot of criticism of the Offensive Line and the accusations of it being weak that the Steeler organization as a whole should have the corrected this problem. There were signs in the Browns game that the Offense line was going to snap and the third game was the straw that broke the broke the Camel back. This should have been corrected before the start of the regular season and yes I think coaches and the organization should have bear responsibility for this such as Doug Whaley( Director of Football Operations), Mike Tomlin, Bruce Arians, and Offensive Line Coach Larry Zierlein. I was disappointed even further when the problem wasnít corrected during half time and didnít seem to slow down at all. Well the only thing I can say is if this problem continue it going to be a long and unpleasant football season

Angina
09-22-2008, 06:02 PM
. . . You need to stop hugging the OL's collective nutsack yourself.

oh I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm getting a great visual on that. I love it!!!

:rofl:

carry on

:rofl::laughing::rofl:

Angina

Best coast Steeler
09-22-2008, 06:04 PM
here is what I will say about this game, then I shall move on.

The offensive coordinator and oline coach did a horrible job of adjusting play calling to pick up the blitzes. The Eagles did an amazing job sending different guys every play, hats off to them. They did things they hadn't done in their 1st two games with their blitzes.

Our play calling was obvious and easy to determine. We went away from the run too early and never established a push on the line of scrimmage which was a complete mess from the first pass play to the last pass play.

The Defense was great and if Ike Taylor catches that very bad pass from McNabb that was thrown too low, and takes it to the house, game over. The Defense was great. Every part of it played fantastic except for one td drive.

Special teams were pretty good too including a 53 yard career long FG by Reed. The punt return game needs work however, but everything else was good.

Now...next up...the Ravens. Nothing else matters. I leave it to the coaches to adjust their game plan to the Ravens and their blitzing schemes.

Dude, you hit out the park on this post...we will have to hurry and makes some corrections and get back on track. :applaudit:

Rotorhead
09-22-2008, 06:08 PM
Wow, did you guys really watch the game, if so maybe you can explain to me WHEN Ben could have even attempted to throw a slant, someone said they counted 3s on most of the sacks . . . but they failed to mention on all but 2 of those sacked Ben DODGED the first 1-2 blitzers BEFORE he was sacked. So again, tell me . . . if he was sacked in 3-4 seconds, and 7 of them he dodged the first 1-2 ppl how he has time to even throw a slant. Hell, he was sacked in the endzone (I know the call was a wrong grounding call) and it was a bootleg, which again he dodged the first def from the far side before getting sacked by the bootleg side. Linebackers can cover 5yds in less than a second unabated, so remember that when you say Ben held onto the ball to long.

Preacher
09-22-2008, 06:08 PM
But we did address it - we replaced Mahan with Hartwig. After all, Mahan was the only reason the OL underperformed last year, right? :coffee:

:rofl:

SteelerFanInCA
09-22-2008, 06:11 PM
That was definitely a brutal performance by the O Line. Hopefully they can get their shit together and soon.

Preacher
09-22-2008, 06:16 PM
OK...

Moe does bring up a very good point.

Ben has been calling the Zone Block Schemes over the last two years... and there HAVE been a number of times I have seen our Oline just stand there (looking over their zone) when another zone is being blitzed.

Is it possible that ONE of the problems is Ben just isn't ready/able to call the blocking schemes? SHould we take it away from him and give it back to the O line?

Of course, that would mean that our O line has to stop getting manhandled when they do lock up.

Oh well.

it was one game. we are now 2-1. On to next week and hopefully another win!

MasterOfPuppets
09-22-2008, 07:02 PM
Funny that in last nights Packer game, the Cowboys were on top of Rodger a few times, but he had already thrown a quick slant to Driver, Jennings, etc.

I dont know if its our offensive scheme, Ben or what.

Just think for a minute if we defensively blitzed like the Eagles did to other teams......what would McNabb, Romo, Brady, Manning, Hasselbeck, etc do???
wasn't it just last year,that mcnabb was sacked six times in 1 game,ALL BY THE SAME PLAYER??? Winston justice was benched the following week.....:chuckle:

MasterOfPuppets
09-22-2008, 07:05 PM
OK...

Moe does bring up a very good point.

Ben has been calling the Zone Block Schemes over the last two years... and there HAVE been a number of times I have seen our Oline just stand there (looking over their zone) when another zone is being blitzed.

Is it possible that ONE of the problems is Ben just isn't ready/able to call the blocking schemes? SHould we take it away from him and give it back to the O line?

Of course, that would mean that our O line has to stop getting manhandled when they do lock up.

Oh well.

it was one game. we are now 2-1. On to next week and hopefully another win!wasn't Ben sacked 49? times the year BEFORE , he started calling the protections?

Davison_K
09-22-2008, 07:58 PM
The First couple were on Ben for sure... Then They just went clueless.

And then Ariens thought we weren't sucking enough so he decided to a take our one true weapon against the Eagles(Heath Miller) and motion him into a Full Back...................WTF!!!!! Makes me want to rip my hair out that we would do this. Did they not even watch the fffing MNF where Witten destroyed them???

This might be the biggest clusterF**** of a game our O has ever had with Ben under center.

This is the worst kind of angry for me.....its just absolutely baffles how they couldn't perform the fundamentals out there today.

I couldn't have said it better myself. :banging:

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
09-22-2008, 08:14 PM
I hope we redeem ourselves this monday

OneForTheToe
09-22-2008, 08:55 PM
I assign the sack problem as follows:

25.6% O'linemen are out played physically.

48.7% O'linemen making mental mistakes and not knowing whom to block.

10.7% Ben does need to quicken his pace a bit

14.7% coaches fault

.3% Regis Philbin. Just because

steelpride12
09-22-2008, 08:58 PM
I assign the sack problem as follows:

25.6% O'linemen are out played physically.

48.7% O'linemen making mental mistakes and not knowing whom to block.

10.7% Ben does need to quicken his pace a bit

14.7% coaches fault

.3% Regis Philbin. Just because

HAHA Regis had more to do with it than anyone thinks watch out for that crazy bastard! :rofl: and im agreeing to all effect that it was mainly the OL being confused and not knowing who to block on the blitz schemes which later cause many false starts due to the frustration.

fredwebb
09-22-2008, 11:48 PM
This one goes on management. They let their best lineman go, and then paid huge money for a backup. Who can honestly be surprised? This has been a long time coming and it won't be solved for a long time. Not until they make their lines a priority. While I like the linebackers they drafted last year, they didn't get any decent linemen which they needed more. They keep drafting glamor positions, not necessarily the most important positions, especially according to need. Great! We have a wide receiver from the 2nd round that isn't even playing. Well done! Instead of a lineman we got a splinter catcher who is tall.

On top of that, we had management hire an unknown head coach who was inexperienced instead of getting two proven guys, one of which is incredible with the O-line. Well done management. Experience does count for something in coaching! Get the stinkin' 3 points and give yourself a chance, no matter how small it is!

ytsan2q
09-23-2008, 12:27 AM
It's impossible for 5 guys to block 7 people. If you really watched the game, Phili used a lot of 6 and 7 man blitzes. We should have killed them with the quick slants.

OneForTheToe
09-23-2008, 12:48 AM
This one goes on management. They let their best lineman go, and then paid huge money for a backup. Who can honestly be surprised? This has been a long time coming and it won't be solved for a long time. Not until they make their lines a priority. While I like the linebackers they drafted last year, they didn't get any decent linemen which they needed more. They keep drafting glamor positions, not necessarily the most important positions, especially according to need. Great! We have a wide receiver from the 2nd round that isn't even playing. Well done! Instead of a lineman we got a splinter catcher who is tall.

On top of that, we had management hire an unknown head coach who was inexperienced instead of getting two proven guys, one of which is incredible with the O-line. Well done management. Experience does count for something in coaching! Get the stinkin' 3 points and give yourself a chance, no matter how small it is![/


You know that is so true. I mean the previous two slugs the Rooney's hired as head coaches were unkown as well and they just su ... oh wait :scratchchin:a minute on second thought (or first :wink02: ).

And furthermore, if we would have drafted a o'linemen to take the place of "Moon" Mullins instead of that bum Benny Cunningham in 1976, Terry Bradshaw wouldn't have been able to swivel his head completely around on his neck.

Stupid five Super Bowl Rooneys.:noidea::whistle::smoker:

:wtf::hmmph::wink02:

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-23-2008, 12:52 AM
Ben has been calling the Zone Block Schemes over the last two years... and there HAVE been a number of times I have seen our Oline just stand there (looking over their zone) when another zone is being blitzed.


Sorry Preach, but Zone Block Schemes refer to a type of run blocking. Ben has been allowed to call pass protection schemes.

I understand what you are seeing and its not a zone block. Example, Hartwig and Simmons each had a guy in the gap to the left and right of them. 3 defenders over 2 players....at the snap of the ball 2 jab step and drop out and it leaves the 3rd one to run free while the 2 O linemen are looking like blocking air.

As a former O lineman, I have faced this and our protection scheme was to always block down towards the center, leaving the extra man to run the farthest distance from the outside. I also had a couple hot words with the guy on either side of me to let them know who I was taking and who they had.

I dont know what the Steelers protection schemes are, but they miscommunicated a lot. The other thing is if you see O linemen blocking nobody in a zone........its a sure place for Ben to step up to, which he rarely did.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-23-2008, 01:01 AM
It's impossible for 5 guys to block 7 people. If you really watched the game, Phili used a lot of 6 and 7 man blitzes. We should have killed them with the quick slants.

True, I just rewatched most of the game and the Steelers moved the ball well in the first quarter, Ben hit a variety of quick passes, Parker got some yards off tackle and the O line handled the 4 man rush well.

The first 7 man blitz I saw with a 3rd and 4, with 3 min to go in the first quarter. Ben bobbled the snap, but otherwise they looked good.

The 2nd quarter they got 3 quick sacks on plays where Simmons and Hartwig got fooled, then that one sack where Cole was offside and facemasked Ben to the ground. (I dont understand how a sack is still credited when the facemask causes the sack?)

Ben was totally rattled after those quick ones and when pressure came he got happy feet and started running for his life instead of looking for an outlet. He then got sacked on a corner blitz, where neither Ward nor Miller recognized the blitz to run a hot route and help him out.

Jim Johnson then smelled blood and kept sending 6. Then the entire O line and Ben looked like freshmen having to take on the varsity squad. The rest is history. On to the Ravens.

Preacher
09-23-2008, 01:05 AM
Sorry Preach, but Zone Block Schemes refer to a type of run blocking. Ben has been allowed to call pass protection schemes.

I understand what you are seeing and its not a zone block. Example, Hartwig and Simmons each had a guy in the gap to the left and right of them. 3 defenders over 2 players....at the snap of the ball 2 jab step and drop out and it leaves the 3rd one to run free while the 2 O linemen are looking like blocking air.

As a former O lineman, I have faced this and our protection scheme was to always block down towards the center, leaving the extra man to run the farthest distance from the outside. I also had a couple hot words with the guy on either side of me to let them know who I was taking and who they had.

I dont know what the Steelers protection schemes are, but they miscommunicated a lot. The other thing is if you see O linemen blocking nobody in a zone........its a sure place for Ben to step up to, which he rarely did.

Actually,

Zone blocking is a scheme that is used in both run AND passing schemes... http://espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1440703.html

But yeah, I wonder what would happen if we just simplified the entire thing.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-23-2008, 01:23 AM
Actually,

Zone blocking is a scheme that is used in both run AND passing schemes... http://espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1440703.html

But yeah, I wonder what would happen if we just simplified the entire thing.

Bob Davie is a DEFENSIVE coach. His success came as a LB coach and D coordinator at Texas A&M and that article where he says "zone-locking principles may also be applied to pass blocking", but doesnt draw it up is obvious filler to anybody that has coached offensive football.

He is trying to imply that if the DT over Kendall Simmons twisted right around a line where the TE was, that in a "man-locking" scheme as Davie calls it.....Simmons would have to go for a run with that guy????? If Howard Mudge or Joe Bugel can somehow explain how that would ever happen, I can believe it.

The could simplify it more, but I dont know how that effects the entire Arians offense. Ultimately I think its Zeirline's responsibility to coach up his guys on the O line and give Ben a protection scheme he is comfortable with.