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revefsreleets
09-21-2008, 09:32 PM
Nobody has even touched this, although it's HUGE.

I'm disturbed by this petty garbage from the Democrats, and I want to bring it up. In the midst of the second biggest financial crisis we've faced as a nation, the Democratic leadership wanted to play the blame game and bury their heads like Ostrich's?
It's appalling!

http://www.ohio.com/news/nation/28821634.html

ANALYSIS
Financial crisis puts Democrats in bind Voters won't let them sit back and blame GOP. Threat demands swift action by both parties
By Julie Hirschfeld Davis
Associated Press

Published on Sunday, Sep 21, 2008
WASHINGTON: Democrats began last week with a you-break-it-you-buy-it approach to the financial crisis: It's President Bush's fault, let him fix it.
But disarray approached a meltdown and possible collapse of the entire economy. Only then did the Democrats, who control Congress, and presidential candidate Barack Obama pledge to work with Republicans on a bailout that the Bush administration puts at $700 billion.
They also are seeking help for the unemployed and people who are at risk of losing their homes. Bush is admonishing them that ''the cleaner the better'' for legislation he hopes Congress approves in the week ahead.
The turnabout reflects the political crosscurrents as both parties and their White House nominees confront the gravest threat to the American standard of living since the Great Depression.
Pelosi on board
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., was an outraged spectator Wednesday when she said about the administration: ''This is their problem. This is their solution.'' A little more than 24 hours later, she was a grim-faced team player: ''We hope to move very quickly. Time is of the essence.''
The GOP, too, shifted its stand.
House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-West Chester, began the week railing against any more taxpayer-financed bailouts a sentiment GOP presidential nominee John McCain seemed to share and ended it promising to work with Democrats on just such a plan. By then, McCain had come out with his own proposal for a new government entity to take on bad debt from struggling financial institutions.
The financial crisis moved so quickly that it outpaced lawmakers' ability to keep on top of developments, much less develop a coherent strategy or message.
Democratic dilemma
For Democrats, it is a chance to highlight what they characterize as hands-off policies by Bush and the GOP that favor the wealthy.
Yet the crisis demands swift action for which Democrats, as the leaders of Congress, will bear a hefty share of responsibility. They do not relish being seen as complicit in a Wall Street rescue when voters are feeling an acute economic pinch.
''There's a lot of frustration among Democrats who view this cataclysm as the logical consequence of a philosophy of deregulation,'' said William Galston, a domestic policy adviser to President Clinton.
At the same time, ''does anybody really want to go down in history as part of the sand in the machinery that helped bring about the repeat of 1930?''
'Grave hypocrisy'
Rep. Barney Frank, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, said Democrats cannot duck the issue after spending eight years hammering Bush for making end-runs around Congress.
''There have been people on my side complaining about executive overreaching, too much power for the executive. I think it would be grave hypocrisy to then sit back and . . . say, 'OK, you guys do it on your own,' '' said Frank, D-Mass. ''We can't be for . . . a two-branch operation unless it's a tough issue.''
Frank was the first lawmaker to float a possible solution, a government entity along the lines of the Resolution Trust Corp. of the 1980s that took over hundreds of failed savings and loans and sold off their assets before folding.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
09-21-2008, 09:55 PM
Your forgetting that it was McCain that said our economy is just fine....He supports Bushs plan..........Oh then that very day the stock market crashed 500 points.....(but were doing great says or republican candidate)
But we wont remember him giving a speech telling us the economy is fine will we?
Did he just not know how bad we are doing right now........Or was it just politics talking and the truth hit hard?

You can only tell a child so many time not to put his hand on a hot stove..........but once he does.. he has to handle the pain on his own..

revefsreleets
09-21-2008, 10:00 PM
Your forgetting that it was McCain that said our economy is just fine....He supports Bushs plan..........Oh then that very day the stock market crashed 500 points.....
But we wont remember him giving a speech telling us the economy is fine will we?

Are you kidding me? This is WAY bigger than that. This is the Democratic leadership, the people pulling Obama's puppet strings telling us to let the GOP clean up their own mess, and, what's worse, this is 100% the Democrats fault as well! They are 100% complicent and culpable. They stood by while all this happened, and only feigned outrage when it got bad, and EVEN THEN, could only stomach their own hypocrisy for one day.

Disgraceful!

Preacher
09-21-2008, 10:03 PM
Your forgetting that it was McCain that said our economy is just fine....He supports Bushs plan..........Oh then that very day the stock market crashed 500 points.....(but were doing great says or republican candidate)
But we wont remember him giving a speech telling us the economy is fine will we?
Did he just not know how bad we are doing right now........Or was it just politics talking and the truth hit hard?


Nope.

that isn't what he said. He said teh FUNDAMENTALS are fine... and he is right.

It is the equivelent of saying the body is fundamentally healthy... good heart, good lungs, in decent shape,

but the hypothermia that was caught is still very dangerous.


BTW.. that 500 point drop... it went away. Rebounded over the next few days.

revefsreleets
09-22-2008, 10:31 AM
I will give the Democrats some credit. They are right to demand that the bailout package contain some language limiting these greedy crooks from paying themselves huge bonuses in the midst of all this. But I'm still very angry that they are playing politics while we teeter on the edge of another depression.

xfl2001fan
09-22-2008, 11:25 AM
I do like what McCain was saying in an interview over the weekend on 60 minutes.

When asked who's fault it was, he said it was Congress. Both Republicans and Democrats.

He called it honestly (though some politics was still being played, can't be helped at that level).

revefsreleets
09-22-2008, 11:43 AM
Obama, meanwhile (and somewhat inexplicably, I might add) blamed this directly on John McCain.

Hammer67
09-22-2008, 12:15 PM
This campaign is making more and more sick. Luckily my 401k is not very mature and the economical hit over thelast few years hasn't affected me...

Dino 6 Rings
09-22-2008, 12:19 PM
Didn't McCain in 2005 try to get legislation passed to regulate Fannie Mae and Mac better because he saw the writing on the wall for the financial crisis 3 years ago?

Yeah...I think he did.

Oh, and there is one little footnote to the story that's worth keeping in mind while Democrats point fingers between now and Nov. 4: Senator John McCain was one of the three cosponsors of S.190, the bill that would have averted this mess.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aSKSoiNbnQY0

revefsreleets
09-22-2008, 03:39 PM
Ruh-roh!

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
09-22-2008, 07:11 PM
:tt02:Obama 2008:tt02:

Preacher
09-22-2008, 07:28 PM
:tt02:Obama 2008:tt02:

I was expecting a rant from you on this...

This post caught be by pleasant surprise... had to chuckle.

tony hipchest
09-22-2008, 09:12 PM
Didn't McCain in 2005 try to get legislation passed to regulate Fannie Mae and Mac better because he saw the writing on the wall for the financial crisis 3 years ago?
Yeah...I think he did.

]lol. no.

that would assume he had the financial background and foresight to see this coming. mccain has been about as anti-regulation as it gets in such matters. (as are most republican multimillionaires protecting their own money and interests.)

his 2005 legislation is a simple case of a blind squirrel finding a nut.

i dont think the simple blame game and the politicing of BOTH sides is a big white elephant. it has been discussed, as has campaign/party strategies to get elected, gaffes, etc.

on this board, when it is discussed, it usually draws heavy fire of "mccain bashing" and funny obama pics, if the point/opinion being stated isnt leaning towards the right.

for me the REAL white elephant (especially on this board) is what has been thrown together by the right as a solution... i.e. mccain/palin, to pull us out of our financial crisis.

granted, democrats have their hands in this recession pie, but the pie was definitely cooked by republicans in their kitchen. deregulation of financial matters has always been one of their platforms, as has been squashing big brother as an overseer.

after all, big brother, is like having a bunch of cops chaparone a graduation party. you simply get away with less. and now their solution is like asking a bunch of prisoners to fortify the prison wall.

and mccains possible solutions are now bringing up questions of his age and lucicity-

continued below...

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
09-22-2008, 09:15 PM
I was expecting a rant from you on this...

This post caught be by pleasant surprise... had to chuckle.

Im glad you enjoyed:laughing:
Go Steelers

tony hipchest
09-22-2008, 09:21 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/21/abc-panel-tears-into-mcca_n_128055.html

For John McCain, the panel discussion on This Week with George Stephanopoulos could not have been more brutal.

Minutes after conservative columnist George Will declared that the Senator was decidedly un-presidential is his unexpected call for the firing of SEC Chairman Chris Cox, Sam Donaldson, the long-time ABC hand, said that McCain's erratic message on the economy again raised questions about his age.

"I suppose the McCain campaign's hope is that when there's a big crisis, people will go for age and experience," said Will. "The question is, who in this crisis looked more presidential, calm and un-flustered? It wasn't John McCain who, as usual, substituting vehemence for coherence, said 'let's fire somebody.' And picked one of the most experienced and conservative people in the administration, Chris Cox, and for no apparent reason... It was un-presidential behavior by a presidential candidate."

Donaldson then jumped in: "It was two days after the he said the fundamentals of the economy were strong. His talking points have gotten all mixed up. And I think the question of age is back on the table."

It should be noted that McCain's call for the firing of Cox was dismissed right off the bat, as the president does not have the authority to axe an SEC chairman. The criticisms that Donaldson raised concerned the fact that McCain started the week by touting the fundamentals of the economy, before pivoting into fits of populist mantra and calling for increased regulation of the markets - position at odds with McCain's traditional economic philosophies.
"When I say age," he explained, "I don't know the difference between finding your talking points and not delivering the right ones, we have seen him do this frequently but this last week was the worst. Between two stops in Florida, as you say, he had to revise his thinking about what he wanted to say about the economy, wanted to feel the pain suddenly than say everything is great."

The whole, painful, episode crested with Will leveling an even harsher blow.

"John McCain showed his personality this week," said the writer and pundit, "and made some of us fearful."


you would think mccain would know the position he covets has no authority to fire the SEC chairman.

but this isnt even the real big white elephant. for that just take a look into mccain and phil gramms bedroom and see them snuggled so closely.

continued below-

tony hipchest
09-22-2008, 09:26 PM
http://jtaplin.wordpress.com/2008/09/07/mccain-gramm-and-the-fannie-mae-crisis/

John McCain, Phil Gramm and the Republican establishment are acting as if they had nothing to do with the Housing Crisis that led to today’s takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The down payment by taxpayers to clean up this mess is the $100 Billion the government committed to cover future losses. The media is framing this as a politically neutral event and McCain made the following statement this morning.

“It’s hard, it’s tough, but it’s also the classic example of why we need change in Washington. It’s an example of cronyism, special interest, lobbyists. A quasi-governmental organization, where the executives were making hundreds of — hundred some billion dollars a year, while things were going downhill, going to hell in a handbasket,” Mr. McCain said, adding that the two companies need “more regulation, more oversight, more transparency, more of everything, and frankly, a dramatic reduction in what they do.”

One has to admire the balls of a politician like McCain to make such a statement as if he and his inner circle weren’t the “cronies, special interests and lobbyists” who fought “financial regulation and oversight” tooth and nail for the past ten years. One more Big Lie.

Consider the evidence

1994-At the behest of the banking industry Phil Gramm, with McCain’s support, killed the Fair Credit Reporting Act
In 1994, Mr. Gramm single-handedly killed a bill that would have required credit bureaus to quickly fix errors on a person’s credit report. Mr. Gramm called it a “bad bill” that imposed costs on the credit bureaus.”He was very focused on cost to financial institutions and not very focused on costs suffered by consumers,” said Travis Plunkett, legislative director for the Consumer Federation of America
1999-The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, authored by McCain’s principle economic advisor, Phil Gramm is the law that deregulated banking and allowed the explosion of inancial derivatives that led to the current credit crisis. John McCain voted for the bill.
2000-Phil Gramm created the Commodities Future Modernization Act. John McCain voted for the bill
Gramm slipped an Enron-backed provision into the Commodities Futures Modernization Act that exempted from regulation energy trading on electronic platforms.Then, over the next year, Enron – with Gramm’s wife Wendy serving on its board of directors – worked to create false electricity shortages in California, bilking consumers out of an estimated $40 billion.
2004-The SEC voted to require Hedge Funds to simply register with the agency. Gramm and McCain both argued that since hedge fund investors were high net worth individuals, there was no need for such regulation. The SEC order was overturned on a technicality.
In 2002 Gramm left the senate and became Vice Chairman of UBS the Swiss Bank that was a major player in the sub-prime market. Even as the Housing crisis became apparent this year, McCain maintained his anti-regulatory bias. In March at the height of the crisis he made a speech with this rather bizarre assertion.

“In financial institutions, there is no substitute for adequate capital to serve as a buffer against losses. Our financial market approach should include encouraging increased capital in financial institutions by removing regulatory, accounting and tax impediments to raising capital.“

McCain now says we need more regulation, but the truth is that he has fought it for 10 years and it’s time for Obama and Biden to call him on that.
the ties with phil gramm are my big white elephant. theres tons of dirt on this guy, just not 6 feet worth.

sorry, i just dont see how the likes of bush, mccain, cheney, gramm, etc. can be trusted to fix this mess.

one party recognizes this. the other denys it.

Hammer67
09-22-2008, 09:41 PM
http://jtaplin.wordpress.com/2008/09/07/mccain-gramm-and-the-fannie-mae-crisis/

the ties with phil gramm are my big white elephant. theres tons of dirt on this guy, just not 6 feet worth.

sorry, i just dont see how the likes of bush, mccain, cheney, gramm, etc. can be trusted to fix this mess.

one party recognizes this. the other denys it.


You mean the Libertarians, right??? :applaudit:

Preacher
09-22-2008, 10:13 PM
Tony...

If you think one party has the answer and the other doesn't... your dreaming.

Fact is, both parties take a blind ideological eye to the situation and just make it worse.

My hope isn't that McCain can take care of it because he is a Rep.

My hope is that as someone who has crossed his own party enough times, he will be able to take serious BOTH sides and their models...even some models outside of politics.

Obama speaks the party line, period.

That is why I don't want him in office at this time. It is the wrong time for OJT.

I guess that may make too much sense... I can throw in some non-sequiters and pictures for you to rail against if you want.

tony hipchest
09-22-2008, 10:38 PM
Tony...

If you think one party has the answer and the other doesn't... your dreaming.

.


pssst....

post #13
granted, democrats have their hands in this recession pie,

im looking for the closest answer.


one party's answer is to give the biggest tax cuts to the rich (reverse robbin hood and little john ideology) in hopes that it eventually trickles down to the poor.

the other's is to give the tax breaks to those who need it to pay their own mortgage as big oil, inflating food prices, and a culture of debt are strangling them.

mccain chose a veep who requires OJT. i CANT overlook that when you make such a statement in regards to obama.

Preacher
09-22-2008, 11:04 PM
pssst....

post #13

im looking for the closest answer.


one party's answer is to give the biggest tax cuts to the rich (reverse robbin hood and little john ideology) in hopes that it eventually trickles down to the poor.

the other's is to give the tax breaks to those who need it to pay their own mortgage as big oil, inflating food prices, and a culture of debt are strangling them.

mccain chose a veep who requires OJT. i CANT overlook that when you make such a statement in regards to obama.

Psssst. Post 16.


one party recognizes this. the other denys it.

So let me get this straight.

You are more worried about a VP's OJT then a PRESIDENTS OJT... when they BOTH have just as much experience... except that the PRESIDENTIAL candidate has no exec. govt. experience??


Tony... I gotta get some of what you're smoking.

tony hipchest
09-23-2008, 12:26 AM
So let me get this straight.

You are more worried about a VP's OJT . :noidea: i am more concerned with a renegade PRESIDENTIAL candidate's "off the cuff" decision making process and the inadequate, self serving people he has proven to surround himself with (and this includes wife, veep, financial advisor, etc.)

im not "worried" about much except MY life, MY money, and finally MY country. (maybe i am a republican).

other than that, im much more worried about how the steelers will protect big ben. however, that will NOT change how i will cast my vote (or the posts i make on this board on the matter).

i mean, what good would it serve if republicans run amuck with typical propoganda in this forum? isnt a fair and balanced approach good?

thanks. :hatsoff:

Preacher
09-23-2008, 01:07 AM
:noidea: i am more concerned with a renegade PRESIDENTIAL candidate's "off the cuff" decision making process and the inadequate, self serving people he has proven to surround himself with (and this includes wife, veep, financial advisor, etc.)

im not "worried" about much except MY life, MY money, and finally MY country. (maybe i am a republican).

other than that, im much more worried about how the steelers will protect big ben. however, that will NOT change how i will cast my vote (or the posts i make on this board on the matter).

i mean, what good would it serve if republicans run amuck with typical propoganda in this forum? isnt a fair and balanced approach good?

thanks. :hatsoff:

Nope..

According to your post... Demogogue-ing is the answer.

Least demogogue-ing people in this forum.

Propaganda? Please read your own posts. It seems to you DO think one party has the answer.

tony hipchest
09-23-2008, 01:32 AM
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/PureCheese.gif

hate to pull out the spelling police badge on ya, but...

Demogogue-ing

?????

lol wow. talk about melodramatic. anyways, do a quick google and see which is the first to pop up-

Kids Prefer Cheese
http://mungowitzend.blogspot.com/2004/08/still-thing-itself.html

fitting....
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/CASLAFGH.jpg

augustashark
09-23-2008, 01:33 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/21/abc-panel-tears-into-mcca_n_128055.html



you would think mccain would know the position he covets has no authority to fire the SEC chairman.

but this isnt even the real big white elephant. for that just take a look into mccain and phil gramms bedroom and see them snuggled so closely.

continued below-

dude are you kidding? Huffingtonpost?!:rofl:

augustashark
09-23-2008, 01:45 AM
pssst....

post #13

im looking for the closest answer.


one party's answer is to give the biggest tax cuts to the rich (reverse robbin hood and little john ideology) in hopes that it eventually trickles down to the poor.

the other's is to give the tax breaks to those who need it to pay their own mortgage as big oil, inflating food prices, and a culture of debt are strangling them.

mccain chose a veep who requires OJT. i CANT overlook that when you make such a statement in regards to obama.


So keeping taxes down for small business and letting them hire new employees is bad for America? Keeping capital gains taxes down is bad for America?

Btw, just because Obama says he will lower your taxes does'nt mean he will! For the love of God, he's with the party that is always raising taxes! Oh yea, I saw an article today where he said he will cut spending!:rofl::toofunny:

Preacher
09-23-2008, 01:50 AM
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/PureCheese.gif

hate to pull out the spelling police badge on ya, but...



?????

lol wow. talk about melodramatic. anyways, do a quick google and see which is the first to pop up-

Kids Prefer Cheese
http://mungowitzend.blogspot.com/2004/08/still-thing-itself.html

fitting....

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/CASLAFGH.jpg

Ok Tony.

I see how it is.

It is ok for you to claim that all I spew is propaganda. That there is no true independent thought process. It is ok for you to to insult as such.. and you have done it a few times.

However, DARE I call you on something... and it is pure cheese.

.Sure... :thumbsup:

tony hipchest
09-23-2008, 02:06 AM
the party that is always raising taxes!:speaking of "chum in the water", i smell shark..... :busted:

"Read my lips...."

:rofl::toofunny::flap:

tony hipchest
09-23-2008, 02:14 AM
Ok Tony.

I see how it is.

It is ok for you to claim that all I spew is propaganda. That there is no true independent thought process. It is ok for you to to insult as such.. and you have done it a few times.

However, DARE I call you on something... and it is pure cheese.

.Sure... :thumbsup:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/CASLAFGH.jpg


:toofunny:

:coffee:

augustashark
09-23-2008, 02:22 AM
speaking of "chum in the water", i smell shark..... :busted:



:rofl::toofunny::flap:

typical, resort to pulling something that was said what 16 years ago. :rofl: George HW Bush. Great comeback from the mighty king of zingers and one liners. So weak!

revefsreleets
09-23-2008, 10:17 AM
Glad to se that this thread stayed right on topic.

Geesh!

Fact is, McCain HAS voted for regulation when it's been called for, and he has been decidely non-prtisan when doing so, often breaking with his party to do what he considered right, whether it be politically expedient or not. It's impossible to paint McCain with a super broad brush...it just won't stay in the lines.

Leftoverhard
09-23-2008, 12:57 PM
It's impossible to paint McCain with a super broad brush...it just won't stay in the lines.

I don't think you could ever accuse anyone of painting McCain with a broad brush; to his credit, he's done that himself. The problem is that he's painted himself way too many times, leading many people to distrust him.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/43240c6788.gif (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

MACH1
09-23-2008, 01:09 PM
So keeping taxes down for small business and letting them hire new employees is bad for America? Keeping capital gains taxes down is bad for America?

Btw, just because Obama says he will lower your taxes does'nt mean he will! For the love of God, he's with the party that is always raising taxes! Oh yea, I saw an article today where he said he will cut spending!:rofl::toofunny:

Obama's going to cut spending while expanding and making big government.:huh:

Dino 6 Rings
09-23-2008, 01:09 PM
lol. no.

his 2005 legislation is a simple case of a blind squirrel finding a nut....

This right here shows me why you are completely ignorant to facts. A blind squirrel finding a nut when in reality, He Anticipated this crisis and listened to the people at the time that were anticipating this crisis while Obama, Clinton and Dodd were taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in contributions to look the other way.

You are going to vote for who you vote for regardless of any facts.

revefsreleets
09-23-2008, 05:37 PM
Again, leftover, you are long on graphics and cute little snippets which project your bias, but short on any real substance...

Or is that too close to a personal attack? I have to be careful with your uber touchy sensitivity here...

Leftoverhard
09-23-2008, 11:23 PM
you are long on graphics

Thanks, I will take that as a compliment.