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NewCastle_Steel
09-22-2008, 03:04 AM
Hey guys and girls whats up? This is my first post to the SFF. Now I promise you that I am not one to call for peoples heads every time something goes wrong, BUT...I seriously believe Zierlein need to go NOW!

It is true we don't have the most talented offensive line, but these are still professional football players. The play was so bad that you have to think if we had better O-Line coaching they should have played somewhat better than that.


I remember hearing that Zierlein has a different style of coaching the Grimm did. They said Grimm was more a physical coach and Zierlein came in and started teaching "proper technique first". Well...anyone watching the game last night can see that both physicality and technique were both lacking as well as any type of coaching and preparation.

Our offensive play calling was absolutely garbage too, but the O-Line play was pathetic, embarrassing, novice-like, and non existent.

I love my Steelers, but Zierlein needs to go!

Go Steelers!!!

Galax Steeler
09-22-2008, 03:30 AM
I think our play calling was ok Ben just didn't have enough time to let receivers run their routes as for Zierlein he may not be what we need but our offensive line needs help but they did play against a very good deffense also.

NewCastle_Steel
09-22-2008, 03:38 AM
but they did play against a very good deffense also.

A defense that did not get a sack against Dallas. I understand they are a good defense but there is no excuse for this type of play in the nfl.

moedap
09-22-2008, 07:55 AM
A defense that did not get a sack against Dallas. I understand they are a good defense but there is no excuse for this type of play in the nfl.

They didnt get a sack in Dallas because they didnt blitz Dallas that much. Why? Because the Eagles respected Tony Romo's ability to get rid of the ball quickly. They were right in not respecting Big Bens ability to get rid of the ball quickly.

fansince'76
09-22-2008, 08:10 AM
They didnt get a sack in Dallas because they didnt blitz Dallas that much. Why? Because the Eagles respected Tony Romo's ability to get rid of the ball quickly. They were right in not respecting Big Bens ability to get rid of the ball quickly.

Not to mention Dallas actually has an OL that can block.

jjpro11
09-22-2008, 08:20 AM
They didnt get a sack in Dallas because they didnt blitz Dallas that much. Why? Because the Eagles respected Tony Romo's ability to get rid of the ball quickly. They were right in not respecting Big Bens ability to get rid of the ball quickly.

bingo.. i think ben was exposed more than the oline. he needs to start getting his reads down for his own safety.

fansince'76
09-22-2008, 08:24 AM
bingo.. i think ben was exposed more than the oline. he needs to start getting his reads down for his own safety.

So, the fact that there were 2-3 (usually unblocked) guys right in Ben's face almost as soon as he took the snap was his fault due to his slow reads?

roostermcw
09-22-2008, 08:29 AM
Amen to that. Ben has got to learn to read the blitz and get rid of the ball quicker. Stop all the pump fakin' crap and throw the ball. Under Zierlein they have given up a ton of sacks. Something needs to be done and I hope Tomin has the insight to see that and make the changes necessary.

tyler289
09-22-2008, 08:36 AM
It's tough to make a read when you have at least 1 blitzer coming untouched at you. As soon as he'd make his drop he'd be hit or under pressure. He can read the blitz but it doesn't help if the offensive line gets beat non-stop.

I expected more quick passes (screens) but they never materialized. With the Eagles secondary, I doubt it would've worked.

NewCastle_Steel
09-22-2008, 09:38 AM
bingo.. i think ben was exposed more than the oline. he needs to start getting his reads down for his own safety.

I noticed that when Leftwich came in he seemed to get rid of the ball quickly at first...and then the next thing you know he is on his @$$ just like Ben was.

Once Ben realized the pressure on EVERY Single Down because of the lack of O-Line, yes he got jittery. I don't care if you have Marsha Brady back there, with a line that played more like a set of swinging doors than a nfl offensive line, your QB is going to lose confidence and that can effect making reads. The receivers were covered and they couldn't even run their routs for looking back to see if Ben was sacked AGAIN.

MACH1
09-22-2008, 09:58 AM
Zierlein really had them coached and prepared for this one didn't he? Granted we don't have the most talented line out their but they should be able to at least slow them down a bit and not play like they have their heads up their a$$. They played like chit last year and its not going to get any better this year. Zierlein has got to go after the season done. IMO

Those who know me here know that I usually don't call for someones head but that was unexcusable yesterday.

rbryan
09-22-2008, 10:05 AM
Theres no doubt in my mind that at least half the sacks were on Ben. Throw the ball away and live to fight another play. Why he thinks he can outrun 3 defenders on a jail brake blitz is beyond me.

As ugly as yesterday was they were still in it if not for the forced fumbles. Next weeks gameplan better change if the Ratbirds can get thru that sive of an Ol that quick.

Run 3 times and punt all day if you have to. Play good defense and beat the Ratbirds 6-3 if you must. A win is a win

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2008, 10:06 AM
Not to mention Dallas actually has an OL that can block.
5 O linemen cannot block a 6 man blitz. Think of that a bit.....its physically impossible.

What they can do is tighten their line splits so the free man has to come from the outside, or set and edge and roll out the pocket so the free man has a long way to run to the QB......OR, they can even line up 3 TE and release Spaeth and Miller quickly to get a quick 5 yd pass and some RAC yards.

The OP is true that good talent makes a coach look good, but a good coach can make average talent look good too.

I like the approach of coaching technique and execution, so I like Zeirline as a coach, but from what I saw neither he, Arians, Tomlin or anybody attempted to correct the problems at halftime. Its poor coaching of a bad situation.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2008, 10:07 AM
I thought at the start of the season both Zeirline and Ligashesky were coaching for their jobs this season. So far it looks like Ligs has a better chance of staying next season.

steelpride12
09-22-2008, 10:10 AM
Its not the fact that Zeirlein is a technique person over toughness. Its the fact that year in and year out our offensive line has the same perspective going into each game, the same game plan which has failed up for 4 years now.

The draft is not helping one bit either. Each year we swear to get a lineman the first round, but instead we got a RB and no lineman till the 4th round and he doesn't even play.
I don't know about you, but there is something wrong there, all of the OL coordinatiors fault or not some change in the coaching wouln't hurt any worse.

fansince'76
09-22-2008, 10:12 AM
5 O linemen cannot block a 6 man blitz. Think of that a bit.....its physically impossible.

They didn't do well against 4-man rushes either.

MACH1
09-22-2008, 10:12 AM
Theres no doubt in my mind that at least half the sacks were on Ben. Throw the ball away and live to fight another play. Why he thinks he can outrun 3 defenders on a jail brake blitz is beyond me.


Who's he supposed to throw the ball to without getting a grounding penalty. Its kinda hard to throw the ball when the D on top of you in .5 seconds.

Godfather
09-22-2008, 10:27 AM
I know Ben has a tendency to hold the ball too long, but I started paying attention to the amount of time he had and I saw several plays where he had less than 2 seconds.

This perfomance is on the Maginot Line.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2008, 10:29 AM
They didn't do well against 4-man rushes either.

I havent reviewed the game play by play yet., so cant debate that. Will get back to u when I have.

I can remember several plays where each player screwed up. Colon got out quicked, Smith got out powered, Simmons and Hartwig blocking nobody, while 6 guys blitzing.

I have been in that situation as an O-line coach(definately not at that level) and when your guys have that look of fear, confusion and bewilderment in their eyes you have to stand up and definitively give them a plan to fix it. The O-line coach or OC has to be the general and give the troops a counter attack plan....nobody did that.

fansince'76
09-22-2008, 10:30 AM
I can remember several plays where each player screwed up. Colon got out quicked, Smith got out powered, Simmons and Hartwig blocking nobody, while 6 guys blitzing.

I agree - that's the maddening thing about it. One play, one guy will mess up, another play, another guy will mess up, and still yet another play, multiple guys will mess up. That really hasn't changed from last year.

rbryan
09-22-2008, 10:32 AM
I agree that half the time they were on him so fast there was nothing he could do.

Maybe Ben should have gone "Longest yard" on the Iggles and throw as hard as he could at somebody's nuts......lol

I'd rather he take a grounding penalty than all those hits, I'm surprised he can even walk today.

BurghZ0n3
09-22-2008, 10:35 AM
...and Tomlin was STILL baffled about the "Safety" that we got....Ben knee was down in the Endzone....:doh::noidea:

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2008, 10:37 AM
Again, I am not a professional coach and dont pretend to be (ok, sometimes :)

If I was coach Z here is what I would have done first:

Have the O-line tighten up their line splits(distance between the OL's feet) on passing downs. Then keep in a RB or TE on Ben's blind side and have the OL block down on the blitz.

That way, the pocket is smaller, but the free blitzer would have to come from the outside and to the right. (its like blocking on a FG, nobody up the middle...they have to come from the outside). Ben should have a free blitzer to come from where he can see him or avoid him.

The other thing I would do is set a TE or RB on the right side, roll the pocket right so the free blitzer has to come from the left for a long run to get to Ben.

The 3rd thing would be from that rollout right (or left ) formation, release a TE or FB into a short pattern and have the onside WR clear him out deep and bring a weakside WR into the pattern. The progression then becomes 1. TE in flat, 2. WR deep, 3. WR backside 4. run or throw it away.

Maybe I am clueless about it, but at least that is an adjustment rather than keep doing the same thing all game.

fansince'76
09-22-2008, 10:38 AM
...and Tomlin was STILL baffled about the "Safety" that we got....Ben knee was down in the Endzone....:doh::noidea:

I think he was more "baffled" that we got the safety due to an incorrect call of intentional grounding when Ben was clearly outside the pocket. I agree that it was a safety anyway due to his knee being down, but that's not what was called.

rbryan
09-22-2008, 10:44 AM
I kept waiting for Ben to start rolling out too.

Hindsight is 20/20 but, when you get sacked 5 times in 8 plays maybe you should consider running 3 times and punt before you get your QB killed. We were still in that game had it not been for the forced fumbles. One of these days we might actually be the team to get a big play on ST. The D was playing well, one big play even if it was a fluke would have won that game if you're not moving backwards every other play and turning the ball over.

steelreserve
09-22-2008, 11:05 AM
So, the fact that there were 2-3 (usually unblocked) guys right in Ben's face almost as soon as he took the snap was his fault due to his slow reads?

That's exactly the problem. If we knew what we were doing, we would have audibled to quick slants or screens when we knew a blitz was coming. Or the offensive coordinator could have called more of them in the first place. It's not like the Eagles were giving us no clue about what was coming.

millwalldavey
09-22-2008, 02:54 PM
Someone has to answer for why this happened.

1. Where was the ground game? It seems like we tried to play Eagle ball right from the start and live and die by the pass.

2. When it was evident that the sacks were coming, why would the not have 2 sidecars in the backfield at all times?

Elvis
09-22-2008, 03:01 PM
Is Max Starks still on our team?

Our team looked like the Yankees yesterday..... Sinking Real Fast...:doh:

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2008, 03:59 PM
Is Max Starks still on our team?

Our team looked like the Yankees yesterday..... Sinking Real Fast...:doh:

Yup, still the highest paid backup OT in the NFL and not worthy of starting on an O line in the NFL....except maybe the Rams, or Lions.

augustashark
09-22-2008, 11:51 PM
Yup, still the highest paid backup OT in the NFL and not worthy of starting on an O line in the NFL....except maybe the Rams, or Lions.

LOL, if you ask me your list should read Rams, or Lions or Steelers!

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-23-2008, 01:08 AM
LOL, if you ask me your list should read Rams, or Lions or Steelers!

Yeah, maybe.

Orlando Pace, Alex Barron, Jeff Bakus, George Foster are all better than Starks or Colon.

NewCastle_Steel
09-23-2008, 06:35 PM
Hopefully they were thoroughly embarrassed and will protect Ben a little better, as well as actually call some plays that play to our strengths against the Ratbirds. I hope they don't go out there trying to prove something, throwing the ball deep every down.