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View Full Version : So are we going to develop our qb now?


Rush58
11-29-2005, 08:50 AM
15 attempts a game on 3rd downs will not cut it. I wonder how far a long would Carson Palmer be in our offense right now? Smashmouth football doesn't win in the modern era. Sure, it will get us 10 or 12 wins b/c we can play defense and run it fairly ok, but when we play a team that can score some points, we can't compete. Why? B/c we don't have a qb? No, b/c our philosophy is deciding it for us. We are just wasting a good young qb with a bunch of conservative playcalling. I am amazed Big Ben has played this well with the lack of attempts he's been given. Plaxico, the guy who I hate, said it best, "I was drafted to play wide receiver, not running back." Well, Cowher, Big Ben was drafted in the 1st round to throw the damn ball, not hand it off!

BTW, this topic is not about last night's game. I am looking at the big picture. If we are going to get to the Super Bowl, we have to become a balance team. That means we have to develop Big Ben.

Eztarget
11-29-2005, 11:22 AM
Well you need to start by replacing the turnstyles that are blocking for him. As big as some of those guys are the tiny but quick Colts D-linemen were making them their b!tches ALL NIGHT!

If you can't run the ball against a small team like the Colts on the road you ain't winning the big games.

Cowher will always be that "good" coach that gets you near the mountain but NEVER climbs it.

Onside kick in a 9 point game?

QB draw on 4th and 4 with a QB coming off knee surgery?

STUPID, STUPID!

BlitzburghRockCity
11-29-2005, 03:08 PM
So goes our OL, so goes Ben, so goes the running game.. it all starts w/ the 5 guys up front who just are not getting it done.

I have no problems w/ Ben's progression as a QB..when he has a time and an OL to block for him he's as good as it gets and does what we need to win. He's proved that since he became the starter..but w/ no running game and no blocking, even peyton manning wouldnt be doing any better.. its true.. manning has a running game and an OL to keep the pressure off him, thats why he generally stays in the pocket, its his forte and he can afford to do it w/ his OL playing well.

It doesnt matter who you are, if ur not getting protection, ur not doing anything.

clevestinks
11-29-2005, 03:52 PM
I agree we should pass more! But trying to run and control the clock, is the right game plan agaist a team like the Colts. It didn`t work for us because we didn`t play well.

RoethlisBURGHer
11-29-2005, 05:12 PM
We need to draft an o-lineman in the first round this year,IMHO.

Koopa
11-29-2005, 05:21 PM
we need to draft a good running back in the first round cause after bettis retires we don't have no one on the roster that can carry the load all season. then i say in the second round draft oline......anyway i hate cowher i'm tired of holding it in......... i know a few of y'all like him but i don't see how, i just can't be satisfied with a nice regular season record, i rather sneak into the playoffs and win it all then dominate all season long and do what cowher does best and choke in the big games. they need to start using big ben the way he's supposed to be used, handing it off ain't gonna win us shit but regular season games

clevestinks
11-29-2005, 05:37 PM
I want a big time WR in the first round. And a fast lb in the second. We have to be able to get a good FA olinemen

BlitzburghRockCity
11-29-2005, 06:25 PM
I want Larry Johnson in a Steeler uniform next year, and I want a WR in the first round, a RG in the 2nd and a DL in the 3rd...

Koopa
11-29-2005, 09:06 PM
well the way larry johnson is playing the way priest holmes keeps breakin himself, we have as much of a chance of getting him as maddox has of not throwing an int

steelcityjameser
11-29-2005, 09:28 PM
i don't think "not developing the qb" is the major concern for the steelers. come on, look at his career record; he is coming along fine. it is the qb's best friend and the cornerstone of any great offense that we are having problems in developing: the offensive line. last night it seemed more glaring to me than ever. the offensive line could not pass block, they could not run block, THEY were getting pancaked! the last 3 weeks we blamed the sluggish offense on the backup qb's. i wanted to believe that maddox was sacked because of his immobility and his passes were rushed b/c of his failure to recognize the defenses. this week we didn't have that excuse. pathetic. this issue must be addressed before we develop into the offense that we need to be.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
11-29-2005, 11:11 PM
I want Larry Johnson in a Steeler uniform next year, and I want a WR in the first round, a RG in the 2nd and a DL in the 3rd...
you keep saying you want larry johnson.
which i would love being a big penn state fan, but what makes you think the chiefs are going to give him up???

StillerPaul
11-30-2005, 12:29 AM
Well you need to start by replacing the turnstyles that are blocking for him. As big as some of those guys are the tiny but quick Colts D-linemen were making them their b!tches ALL NIGHT!

If you can't run the ball against a small team like the Colts on the road you ain't winning the big games.

Cowher will always be that "good" coach that gets you near the mountain but NEVER climbs it.

Onside kick in a 9 point game?

QB draw on 4th and 4 with a QB coming off knee surgery?

STUPID, STUPID!


AGREED!

This is an excellent thread, BTW. It is EXTREMELY frustrating watching this outright stubborness to try and establish the running game at ALL costs. The old cliche "known passing situations" comes to mind here. I simply cannot believe that we can't adjust our passing game for a D like that. Then to top it off by running when they are thinking run then brilliantly :rolleyes: passing when they are thinking pass just really boils my blood.

I wasn't expecting us to go in there and win. But i was, however, expecting us to at least show up. To get so utterly out-played and out-coached yet again is wearing very thin on me. I have been a Cowher supporter but even i have my limits. These kind of performances in big games has become very painful for me to watch.

Ben is every bit the QB that Carson is too, probably better! It just totally sucks seeing him handcuffed alot of times.

Rush58
11-30-2005, 04:33 PM
Ben is every bit the QB that Carson is too, probably better! It just totally sucks seeing him handcuffed alot of times.

The problem is we will never know with Cowher at the helm. He only wants to play ?smashmouth? football. People say we are not good at pass blocking, but pass blocking comes with practice. We do not pass the ball enough to develop the cohesion that's needed. I heard some say midway through the 3rd quarter of the Colts game, ?Let's start passing the ball now.? Well, the passing game comes with practice. You just can't start passing the ball with a young qb when we are down and expect to have good results. If you are not accustomed to doing something week after week, guess what? Expect bad results. That's why we were exposed in last year's AFCCG and was exposed again on Monday night. Cowher has geared us to be a one-dimensional team instead of developing Big Ben and the passing offense.

StillerPaul
11-30-2005, 11:26 PM
The problem is we will never know with Cowher at the helm. He only wants to play ?smashmouth? football. People say we are not good at pass blocking, but pass blocking comes with practice. We do not pass the ball enough to develop the cohesion that's needed. I heard some say midway through the 3rd quarter of the Colts game, ?Let's start passing the ball now.? Well, the passing game comes with practice. You just can't start passing the ball with a young qb when we are down and expect to have good results. If you are not accustomed to doing something week after week, guess what? Expect bad results. That's why we were exposed in last year's AFCCG and was exposed again on Monday night. Cowher has geared us to be a one-dimensional team instead of developing Big Ben and the passing offense.


Sadly, i couldn't agree more. I'd be willing to bet that alot of our practices last week cenered around the running game and what they had hoped we could do to their "small" front 7. Cowher built us to be a "power run team". Every outsider says, "it's fine, it's the Steeler way". But they don't have to feel the heartaches and pains of losing playoff games on a consistant basis. Are we spoiled by having a regular playoff team? Hell yea! But our frustrations still count.

BlitzburghRockCity
12-01-2005, 12:59 AM
I dont have a problem w/ being known as a smash mouth team.. its helped us win a ton of games over the years and makes us an intimidating offense to deal with especially in the 2nd half..

What I do have a problem with is being so smash mouth that when we do need to air it out, we have no idea how too. As the others mentioned..balance is key. We have to be able to play smash mouth and air wars at the same time if need be..and right now we cant.

Rush58
12-01-2005, 11:05 AM
Sadly, i couldn't agree more. I'd be willing to bet that alot of our practices last week cenered around the running game and what they had hoped we could do to their "small" front 7. Cowher built us to be a "power run team". Every outsider says, "it's fine, it's the Steeler way". But they don't have to feel the heartaches and pains of losing playoff games on a consistant basis. Are we spoiled by having a regular playoff team? Hell yea! But our frustrations still count.

The Patriot game earlier this season is a prime example of why we need balance. New England had a depleted secondary and linebacking crew and we couldn't take advantage b/c we play "smashmouth" football (better known as one-dimensional football). There's nothing wrong with running the ball, but we got to have balance. I love what the Bengals are doing on offense. We, on other hand, are delaying the growth process for Big Ben.

SalukiSteelers
12-01-2005, 08:39 PM
While the growth process for Ben may be a little sluggish right now, the rule in the NFL seems to be that you play for the season at hand. What gives your team the best chance to win is a question that coaches and management ask themselves at the beginning of the season. Based on last year's team, our guys thought that running the ball and sitting on leads by working the clock and preventing the other team from scoring were the ways to go.

Does that look like it's the case now? Maybe not. Did it look that way in August? Yeah, probably did.

Look guys, this is running team this season, plain and simple. It's not sexy, and right now it's not real effective, but there is only so much teams can do during the season. You can't retool your team on the fly so we're stuck with what we are.

If Pittsburgh executes the running game it opens up other options, especially play action. If they don't execute, the team looks one dimensional because defenses don't necessarily have to crowd everbody around the line.

Plus, until the Steelers stop teams on third-down, how the heck is Ben supposed to see the field to improve. Also, why put the ball up a ton if the run is working?

If Ben is serious about improving his game I'm sure the staff and his receivers wouldn't have a problem working with him in the offseason. He can experiment with stuff, work on his accuracy, study film, and develop better chemistry with the guys to whom he'll throw the ball.

I can't see the Steelers running the exact same offense next season. Probable off-season personnel changes would seem to indicate that changes in the offensive philosophy are coming. Next year.

As for this year, this is our team. For better or worse.

StillerPaul
12-01-2005, 10:35 PM
The Patriot game earlier this season is a prime example of why we need balance. New England had a depleted secondary and linebacking crew and we couldn't take advantage b/c we play "smashmouth" football (better known as one-dimensional football). There's nothing wrong with running the ball, but we got to have balance. I love what the Bengals are doing on offense. We, on other hand, are delaying the growth process for Big Ben.

Well we have shown glimpses of a more balanced attack. The San Diego game comes to mind. My favorite was the clowns game, but that was with Charlie Batch at QB. Those short to medium passes they let Charlie throw to get him in rhythm was very fun to watch IMO. PLUS, we scored 34 points and looked like we coulda had 50! I just wish they would do these things with Ben sometimes. Especially against the better teams.

BTW, Randle El speaks on the issue on the KDKA website in case ya haven't seen it. There is some very good footage and interviews there IMO.