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Preacher
09-24-2008, 03:16 PM
So much for Hartwig being the answer.... and Mahan being the problem.

from a link in another thread, I found this little beauty...

SACKS ALLOWED
Player .... Sacks
Justin Hartwig 3
Willie Colon 2
Marvel Smith 1.5
Chris Kemoeatu 1
Heath Miller 1
Mewelde Moore .5













http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/09/22/what-a-debacle-steelers-o-line-falls-apart-against-eagles/#cont

Now... Let's talk about this a second.

1. Who was responsible for the MOST sacks? Hmmmmmmmmmmm? That's right. HARTWIG.

2. Who's name is NOT up there that is almost ALWAYS spoken of with disdain? That's right, SIMMONS.


So much for all these website know-it-alls who think Simmons and Mahan were our problems last year, and cried cried cried when we let Faneca go.

Oh yeah, let's look at Faneca's replacement. How many sacks was that? 1? Only his third game starting?

What I learned from this little tidbit.

1. Faneca-- :wave: We DONT need you, your replacement is fine.

2. Hartwig sucked this game worse than Mahan EVERY DID in a game.

3. People need to cool off about Simmons.

4. Colon needs to figure out what is wrong.

HometownGal
09-24-2008, 03:37 PM
Uh-uh. Not on your life. I'm invoking the Fifth. :chuckle::chuckle:

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1647/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1647R-71884.jpg

Preacher
09-24-2008, 03:40 PM
Uh-uh. Not on your life. I'm invoking the Fifth. :chuckle::chuckle:

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1647/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1647R-71884.jpg



:rofl:

I almost labled this..

Hey HTG-- Hartwig sucks!!!

But I thought better of it! :chuckle:

tony hipchest
09-24-2008, 03:41 PM
mahan woulda allowed atleast 5 against philly. :stirthepot:

:chuckle: :wink:

Edman
09-24-2008, 03:43 PM
Don't use Hartwig's ineptitude to make up for Mahan's ineptitude.

Time to bring out the "Hartwig sucks" threads.

MasterOfPuppets
09-24-2008, 03:49 PM
preach they add up to 13.5 sacks......is there such a thing as having been sacked half a time? who's responcable for the other half? is none of the sacks bens fault??? the math just doesn't add up.....:popcorn:

Preacher
09-24-2008, 03:53 PM
preach they add up to 13.5 sacks......is there such a thing as having been sacked half a time? who's responcable for the other half? is none of the sacks bens fault??? the math just doesn't add up.....:popcorn:

:chuckle:

Um.. MOP,

They add up to 8 sacks.

and the .5 sack is when responsibility is spread between two people.

I would imagine the other sack would be Ben's fault.

Which means that Ben ISN"T responsible for them all, like some people here want to pin it on.

I am MORE THAN WILLING to take 1 sack a week for Ben to extend plays. Heck, I am will to take 2 sacks a week for Ben to extend plays. I have no problem with that.


EDIT: I see what you did... you missed the ( . ) before the 5 for Moore. That is half a sack, not 5 sacks.

Preacher
09-24-2008, 03:54 PM
Don't use Hartwig's ineptitude to make up for Mahan's ineptitude.

Time to bring out the "Hartwig sucks" threads.


Ahhh.... I KNEW Mahan would still be the scapegoat of last year...

I am waiting to see how he becomes the scapegoat for this year.

MasterOfPuppets
09-24-2008, 03:56 PM
:chuckle:

Um.. MOP,

They add up to 8 sacks.

and the .5 sack is when responsibility is spread between two people.

I would imagine the other sack would be Ben's fault.

Which means that Ben ISN"T responsible for them all, like some people here want to pin it on.

I am MORE THAN WILLING to take 1 sack a week for Ben to extend plays. Heck, I am will to take 2 sacks a week for Ben to extend plays. I have no problem with that.ohhh...my bad...i didnt see the point in front of moore and counted it as 5......i thought it was the season tally.....:banging:
anywho.....these numbers conflict with the anaylisis of the the guy on the thread that suit started, which would suggest that these are simply opinions and not facts. nobody knows the actual blocking assignments, and who blew what, except the steelers and coach's themselves.

Preacher
09-24-2008, 03:58 PM
ohhh...my bad...i didnt see the point in front of moore and counted it as 5......i thought it was the season tally.....:banging:

:rofl:

Yep... I actually just edited my post about the same time to say that is what I thought you did...

Well, can't say I have never done something like that! :wink02:

MasterOfPuppets
09-24-2008, 04:05 PM
ohhh...my bad...i didnt see the point in front of moore and counted it as 5......i thought it was the season tally.....:banging:
anywho.....these numbers conflict with the anaylisis of the the guy on the thread that suit started, which would suggest that these are simply opinions and not facts. nobody knows the actual blocking assignments, and who blew what, except the steelers and coach's themselves.and at this point, i'm not so sure any of them know....:noidea:

Texasteel
09-24-2008, 04:08 PM
In about another week I'll be starting a draft Alex Mack thread.

43Hitman
09-24-2008, 04:16 PM
In about another week I'll be starting a draft Alex Mack thread.


Here's some hi-lights...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W_gfpkbgtQ


*disclaimer- I take no responsibility for failure of said participants not getting the joke aforementioned in said post.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-24-2008, 04:46 PM
Ahhh.... I KNEW Mahan would still be the scapegoat of last year...

I am waiting to see how he becomes the scapegoat for this year.

Wait until next season, when they use the 7th round selection from the mahan trade to draft a center and the draftee sucks. Then the thread next season will read "Even Trading away Mahan Sucks" ....:rofl:

steelpride12
09-24-2008, 04:59 PM
Screw Hartwig being the worst they all sucked against the eagles and thats a problem.
Everyone was running around missing blocks and playing a stupid game.
Penalties and sacks added up pretty fast.

steelreserve
09-24-2008, 05:06 PM
I don't know how they divvied up the "credit" for those sacks. I recall at least one play where there was a blitzing linebacker or DB and the running back just stood there and watched him go right past. They'd better not have given someone else the sack for that.

It also seems like Hartwig basically got hung out to dry on some of those plays, not missing blocks or anything. They'd send 3 guys up the middle at him, and nobody else would pick any of them up, so he was screwed. I don't think you can single out any one lineman from that mess; the whole thing was just piss-poor.

And for the record, I never thought Simmons was bad ... not a world-beater by any means, but pretty solid.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-24-2008, 05:08 PM
Here's some hi-lights...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W_gfpkbgtQ
That link was messed up.

Here is a good Alex Mack video, aside from the terrible captions on each play.

http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2008/9/4/607499/alex-mack-run-blocking-hig

Preacher
09-24-2008, 05:19 PM
I don't know how they divvied up the "credit" for those sacks. I recall at least one play where there was a blitzing linebacker or DB and the running back just stood there and watched him go right past. They'd better not have given someone else the sack for that.

It also seems like Hartwig basically got hung out to dry on some of those plays, not missing blocks or anything. They'd send 3 guys up the middle at him, and nobody else would pick any of them up, so he was screwed. I don't think you can single out any one lineman from that mess; the whole thing was just piss-poor.

And for the record, I never thought Simmons was bad ... not a world-beater by any means, but pretty solid.

Mahan sure got singled out last year.

My point of this entire thread is that scapegoating only makes people feel better until the ugly truth hits them again.

Hartwig is no better than Mahan. Mahan is no better than Hartwig. We saw that in the preseason. The problem is that according to the last game, the entire line has serious issues, except for Simmons. Now that my point has been made... I am willing to see what kind of adjustments can be made by our line for the next game.


See, I am not going to scape-goat hartwig either... that was just to make a point.

Let's see how everyone does.

43Hitman
09-24-2008, 05:20 PM
That link was messed up.

Here is a good Alex Mack video, aside from the terrible captions on each play.

http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2008/9/4/607499/alex-mack-run-blocking-hig


We REALLY need a sarcasm smiley....( In case everyone doesn't get it..twas' a joke)

Preacher
09-24-2008, 05:20 PM
We REALLY need a sarcasm smiley....( In case everyone doesn't get it..twas' a joke)


Yes!!!

The campaign is going well!!!!!!!1

MasterOfPuppets
09-24-2008, 05:27 PM
We REALLY need a sarcasm smiley....( In case everyone doesn't get it..twas' a joke)i find that this one gets the point across...:rolleyes:

rich4eagle
09-24-2008, 06:23 PM
So much for Hartwig being the answer.... and Mahan being the problem.

from a link in another thread, I found this little beauty...
http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/09/22/what-a-debacle-steelers-o-line-falls-apart-against-eagles/#cont

Now... Let's talk about this a second.

1. Who was responsible for the MOST sacks? Hmmmmmmmmmmm? That's right. HARTWIG.

2. Who's name is NOT up there that is almost ALWAYS spoken of with disdain? That's right, SIMMONS.


So much for all these website know-it-alls who think Simmons and Mahan were our problems last year, and cried cried cried when we let Faneca go.

Oh yeah, let's look at Faneca's replacement. How many sacks was that? 1? Only his third game starting?

What I learned from this little tidbit.

1. Faneca-- :wave: We DONT need you, your replacement is fine.

2. Hartwig sucked this game worse than Mahan EVERY DID in a game.

3. People need to cool off about Simmons.

4. Colon needs to figure out what is wrong.


I think Ben is partly responsible now as is Arians........throw the ball quick or set up screens and flat passes......that is how to counter all out blitzes.........simple and it words

Havik
09-24-2008, 06:45 PM
Here is what I have seen from the line so far:

Kendall Simmons has looked very good so far. I hope he keeps up the good work. Right now he is the best player on the line.

I've seen a lot of good things and some bad things from Kemoeatu. I see some errors and his lack of experience shows, but he is still learning on the job and he should turn out to be a solid starter. I like his run blocking.

Marvel Smith is showing decline in his play. He was beat bad last week. I think Smith is gone after 2008.

Willie Colon sucks at RT, but he is playing out of position. Colon gets beat way too often. He isn't athletic or skilled enough to play RT, but he may be a decent guard.

Hartwig is terrible. It looks like the Steelers have ended it's tradition of Pro Bowl centers giving the position stability and replaced it with the annual signing of bums like Mahan and Hartwig. I wouldn't be surprised to see Hartwig cut or traded next year only to be replaced by someone just as bad.

Zierlien needs to go. I don't understand why Tomlin hired this guy, he has been the coach of some of the worst lines in the NFL. I doubt he could effectively coach a high school team. Larry Z should have been fired after Porngate.

Galax Steeler
09-25-2008, 03:28 AM
Hartwig did not play well but that is one game lets see what he does against the Ravens on monday night then I will throw my judgement out.

DACEB
09-25-2008, 01:47 PM
So much for Hartwig being the answer.... and Mahan being the problem.

Gee, I thought that debate had long since been resolved. :noidea: sarcasm smiley?

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/09/22/what-a-debacle-steelers-o-line-falls-apart-against-eagles/#cont
SACKS ALLOWED
Player .... Sacks
Justin Hartwig 3
Willie Colon 2
Marvel Smith 1.5
Chris Kemoeatu 1
Heath Miller 1
Mewelde Moore .5
Problem with this is these are not official stats. Here are stats from another analyst which include analysis and video that you can view at the link provided. Before you question the math, please go to the link and read the article.

FINAL SACK TOTALS:
Moore - 2
Ben - 2
Kemo - 2
Miller - 1
Smith - 1
Colon - 1
Hartwig -1
http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=3643#more-3643

Did you notice this analyst included Ben on his list. While the first analyst was criticized by fans in the comment section, for not faulting Ben and Arians for their lack of adjustments. Did you notice that Hartwig is credited for only one sack.

Even though this thread is basically just to prove a point, as misleading and off base as it is, it serves to criticize those that critiqued Mahan. Just as now there is a huge debate over the O-line and Arians. The entire offense has conceded that it was a team failure. Tomlin has conceded the coaches need to do a better job.

I enjoy this site because of the intelligent folks that populate it. Living in N.E., I don't have many Steelers fans to talk to. I do not enjoy that sometimes I feel I cannot voice my opinion without being "labeled" by other members.

Let's all get on the same page and root for our team to play the way we know they are capable.:drink:

Preacher
09-25-2008, 02:32 PM
Gee, I thought that debate had long since been resolved. :noidea: sarcasm smiley?


Problem with this is these are not official stats. Here are stats from another analyst which include analysis and video that you can view at the link provided. Before you question the math, please go to the link and read the article.

FINAL SACK TOTALS:
Moore - 2
Ben - 2
Kemo - 2
Miller - 1
Smith - 1
Colon - 1
Hartwig -1
http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=3643#more-3643

Did you notice this analyst included Ben on his list. While the first analyst was criticized by fans in the comment section, for not faulting Ben and Arians for their lack of adjustments. Did you notice that Hartwig is credited for only one sack.

Even though this thread is basically just to prove a point, as misleading and off base as it is, it serves to criticize those that critiqued Mahan. Just as now there is a huge debate over the O-line and Arians. The entire offense has conceded that it was a team failure. Tomlin has conceded the coaches need to do a better job.

I enjoy this site because of the intelligent folks that populate it. Living in N.E., I don't have many Steelers fans to talk to. I do not enjoy that sometimes I feel I cannot voice my opinion without being "labeled" by other members.

Let's all get on the same page and root for our team to play the way we know they are capable.:drink:

Talk about misleading...

This thread serves to show that SCAPEGOATING is not the answer and Mahan wasn't the hole in the tub that needed to be corked. Did Mahan have problems? Absolutely. I wasn't convinced he was a good center. I am, however, convinced that he was about as good as anyone else on that line right now, save Simmons.

THAT is teh point of the thread.

Avoid LLoyd1975
09-25-2008, 02:59 PM
So much for Hartwig being the answer.... and Mahan being the problem.

from a link in another thread, I found this little beauty...
http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/09/22/what-a-debacle-steelers-o-line-falls-apart-against-eagles/#cont

Now... Let's talk about this a second.

1. Who was responsible for the MOST sacks? Hmmmmmmmmmmm? That's right. HARTWIG.

2. Who's name is NOT up there that is almost ALWAYS spoken of with disdain? That's right, SIMMONS.


So much for all these website know-it-alls who think Simmons and Mahan were our problems last year, and cried cried cried when we let Faneca go.

Oh yeah, let's look at Faneca's replacement. How many sacks was that? 1? Only his third game starting?

What I learned from this little tidbit.

1. Faneca-- :wave: We DONT need you, your replacement is fine.

2. Hartwig sucked this game worse than Mahan EVERY DID
in a game.

3. People need to cool off about Simmons.

4. Colon needs to figure out what is wrong.


Dude what are you smokin. Mahan's opposition nearly every game last season had their best outing of the year. I guess you never seen this link.

http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=2567

HometownGal
09-25-2008, 03:20 PM
Talk about misleading...

This thread serves to show that SCAPEGOATING is not the answer and Mahan wasn't the hole in the tub that needed to be corked. Did Mahan have problems? Absolutely. I wasn't convinced he was a good center. I am, however, convinced that he was about as good as anyone else on that line right now, save Simmons.

THAT is teh point of the thread.

I never denied that Mahan had problems playing the C position either. How many times does it have to be stated on this board that Mahan was NOT a natural C and had played G most of his career before being thrust into the C role with the Steelers? :banging:

That postgameheroes website is nothing but a group of football jocks rendering their opinion, just as we do here. More like a glorified blog.

I go by what I see on gameday and the DVR the following day, and though it may differ in what someone else may see, since I'm not on the field or on the line myself, I go with what I see with my own eyes.

Preacher
09-25-2008, 03:21 PM
I never denied that Mahan had problems playing the C position either. How many times does it have to be stated on this board that Mahan was NOT a natural C and had played G most of his career before being thrust into the C role with the Steelers? :banging:

That postgameheroes website is nothing but a group of football jocks rendering their opinion, just as we do here. More like a glorified blog.

I go by what I see on gameday and the DVR the following day, and though it may differ in what someone else may see, since I'm not on the field or on the line myself, I go with what I see with my own eyes.

:hatsoff:

fansince'76
09-25-2008, 03:28 PM
Everyone knows it's all Willie's fault. :stirthepot: :chuckle:

Avoid LLoyd1975
09-25-2008, 08:03 PM
I thiink we've all been spoiled by Dirt Dawson and having Hartings make the pro bowl. I would rather fret about our C position than rather our QB, RB, WR or any of out other skill positions on offense....things could be worse. Lets be a little humble here everyone. Damn I should be a moderator.

Steelman16
09-26-2008, 12:41 AM
Everyone knows it's all Willie's fault. :stirthepot: :chuckle:

:hatsoff:












:chuckle: Oh I was so waiting for that.

Havik
09-26-2008, 09:26 PM
Hartwig struggled in Carolina, is injury prone, and was eventually replaced by Ryan Kalil, who the Panthers drafted in the 2nd round in 2007. Looking at the facts, I don't think he is the answer.

Black@Gold Forever32
09-27-2008, 02:45 PM
So much for Hartwig being the answer.... and Mahan being the problem.

from a link in another thread, I found this little beauty...
http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/09/22/what-a-debacle-steelers-o-line-falls-apart-against-eagles/#cont

Now... Let's talk about this a second.

1. Who was responsible for the MOST sacks? Hmmmmmmmmmmm? That's right. HARTWIG.

2. Who's name is NOT up there that is almost ALWAYS spoken of with disdain? That's right, SIMMONS.


So much for all these website know-it-alls who think Simmons and Mahan were our problems last year, and cried cried cried when we let Faneca go.

Oh yeah, let's look at Faneca's replacement. How many sacks was that? 1? Only his third game starting?

What I learned from this little tidbit.

1. Faneca-- :wave: We DONT need you, your replacement is fine.

2. Hartwig sucked this game worse than Mahan EVERY DID in a game.

3. People need to cool off about Simmons.

4. Colon needs to figure out what is wrong.

Big profanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofa nityfiltering deal you found a site with an opinion.....So I guess it makes you right...lol


http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=3643

I have a link to and I'm not saying this site is more credible.....But there are various sites out there with opinions so why make a freaking thread proclaiming Hartwig is worse then Mahan...Why even defend Sean Mahan?...Is he your cousin?.....Mahan isn't on the team anymore and I could care less about him....Mahan also had a whole season of bad play were Hartwig had one bad game....I don't think Hartwig is the answer but this site is so funny.....

You guys are so like a high school click...You rag on people for making various pointless such and such player sucks thread but you do the same thing by making this worthless thread....Just defending Simmons proves that...Kendall Simmons is an average at best OG....Nothing more and nothing less...He is hardly the answer to...lol

HometownGal
09-27-2008, 07:08 PM
Big profanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofa nityfiltering deal you found a site with an opinion.....So I guess it makes you right...lol


http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=3643

I have a link to and I'm not saying this site is more credible.....But there are various sites out there with opinions so why make a freaking thread proclaiming Hartwig is worse then Mahan...Why even defend Sean Mahan?...Is he your cousin?.....Mahan isn't on the team anymore and I could care less about him....Mahan also had a whole season of bad play were Hartwig had one bad game....I don't think Hartwig is the answer but this site is so funny.....

You guys are so like a high school click...You rag on people for making various pointless such and such player sucks thread but you do the same thing by making this worthless thread....Just defending Simmons proves that...Kendall Simmons is an average at best OG....Nothing more and nothing less...He is hardly the answer to...lol

Dan - Preacher is just stating his opinion. We discuss former Steelers quite often, so what is the problem?

If this thread is so worthless, why did you waste the font and time replying to it? :wink02:

NV STEELERS 723
09-27-2008, 08:47 PM
Speaking of former centers...can we bring back Mike Webster?:sorry:

Preacher
09-27-2008, 08:55 PM
Big profanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofa nityfiltering deal you found a site with an opinion.....So I guess it makes you right...lol


http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=3643

I have a link to and I'm not saying this site is more credible.....But there are various sites out there with opinions so why make a freaking thread proclaiming Hartwig is worse then Mahan...Why even defend Sean Mahan?...Is he your cousin?.....Mahan isn't on the team anymore and I could care less about him....Mahan also had a whole season of bad play were Hartwig had one bad game....I don't think Hartwig is the answer but this site is so funny.....

By your response, I can tell you didn't read through the thread. The point of the thread was how scapegoating one player doesn't help the line. Now, by picking another player in place of Mahan, those where laying the world's problems at his feet... now have to find someone else. This thread was tongue in cheek, which, if you read through it, you would find out.

You guys are so like a high school click...You rag on people for making various pointless such and such player sucks thread but you do the same thing by making this worthless thread....Just defending Simmons proves that...Kendall Simmons is an average at best OG....Nothing more and nothing less...He is hardly the answer to...lol



So high school.. well, well, your so JUNIOR highschool!!! :chuckle:

No, I expect enough people can actually understand adult communication. BTW, look at the BOTTOM of my original post.. .where there is an ACTUAL discussion (4 points)...

yet... what is funny, is that I guess you have already found your next scapegoat. Just defending Simmons proves that...Kendall Simmons is an average at best OG....Nothing more and nothing less...He is hardly the answer to...lol

NV STEELERS 723
09-27-2008, 08:58 PM
Hey Preacher..I liked your post, and I agree w/ you...

Northside Jonny
09-28-2008, 02:10 AM
Man I sure miss Jeff Hartings right now! Oh yeah special thanks to the front office for thinking we didn't need Alan Faneca anymore ! Worst Move Ever!

scsteeler
09-28-2008, 09:42 PM
Man I sure miss Jeff Hartings right now! Oh yeah special thanks to the front office for thinking we didn't need Alan Faneca anymore ! Worst Move Ever!

We don't need Faneca!!!!!!

So much has been placed on 1 game and it seems that some are ready to give this season up as a lost. The Steelers will improve. While the line has not been the best if you will look at other teams most offensive pass plays are gone from the QB's hand within 3 seconds most of the Steeler pass plays take 4 seconds or more which will lead to sacks! Unless something can be done to get the ball out of Ben's hand faster more sacks will come or we run the ball 75% of the time.

Before anyone post so it is Ben's fault now that he gets sacked; that is not what I am saying it may be the play calling or other things but you can't ask your line to hold blitzes back on the bulk of your pass plays past that 3 second mark.

I just ask that you watch other offenses and time when the ball leaves the QB's hand and check out the Steelers Pass plays. When the Steelers release the ball within that 3 second window you see more positive results.
:helmet:

fansince'76
09-28-2008, 09:56 PM
Oh yeah special thanks to the front office for thinking we didn't need Alan Faneca anymore ! Worst Move Ever!

Yeah, we shoulda kept an aging, malcontent LG to the tune of $40 mil over 5 years, dammit! :coffee:

HometownGal
09-28-2008, 10:03 PM
Man I sure miss Jeff Hartings right now! Oh yeah special thanks to the front office for thinking we didn't need Alan Faneca anymore ! Worst Move Ever!

Our excellence at C began in the mid 60's with Ray Mansfield :tombstone and continued throughout the years with Iron Mike :tombstone, Dirt and Hartings. I'm talking about 40+ seasons of outstanding C's. Up until Hartings' retirement at the end of the '06 season, we never had to concern ourselves with less than stellar play at that position until last season and that concern has catapulted itself into this season, as well. The Steelers MUST address this issue seriously at the end of this season.

I appreciate Big Red's accomplishments here in the Burgh up until last season when I feel he somewhat tanked due to his malcontent with the front office, which was brutallly unfair to the team. I don't miss him in the least.

An interesting tidbit here - Brett Favre has been sacked only 2 less times than Ben thus far in the 2008 season.

Steelman16
09-28-2008, 10:03 PM
Yeah, we shoulda kept an aging, malcontent LG to the tune of $40 mil over 5 years, dammit! :coffee:

:chuckle:

Some folks will never understand.

fansince'76
09-28-2008, 10:05 PM
An interesting tidbit here - Brett Favre has been sacked only 2 less times than Ben thus far in the 2008 season.

Very interesting - considering they have 'Brick and Mangold on that OL as well.

Preacher
09-28-2008, 10:32 PM
Very interesting - considering they have 'Brick and Mangold on that OL as well.

Come on FS... everyone knows Favre holds the ball to long and has always been over-rated. :rofl: Of course that i the problem!