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View Full Version : McCain wants to suspend Fridays debates


tony hipchest
09-24-2008, 05:14 PM
Mccain has been slipping in the polls in regards to who is more capable of handling this financial crisis. people are clearly more confident in obama. what better way to combat this than a little bit of grandstanding? of course he probably feels he will get mopped up in a debate on this issue with such short notice and could also use a little bit more time to "study up".

seriously... our next commander in chief cant handle some work in washington AND a debate on the same day? i would hope our next president is much more quick on his feet and capable of much more on his plate.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080924/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_21;_ylt=ArQs9M22IX2NrLqmFCeoASxh24cA

NEW YORK - Barack Obama's campaign says he is inclined to go ahead with Friday's presidential debate, even though rival John McCain is calling for a delay.

McCain said Wednesday that he wants to stop all [the bleeding]campaigning tomorrow and postpone the debate so they can work together on the financial crisis. But Obama campaign officials say the senator is inclined to move ahead.


timeline-

The Obama campaign said in a statement that Obama had called McCain around 8:30 a.m. Wednesday to propose that they issue a joint statement in support of a package to help fix the economy as soon as possible. McCain called back six hours later and agreed to the idea of the statement, the Obama campaign said. McCain's statement was issued to the media a few minutes later.

interesting. so obama calls mccain thismorning in good faith to offer a bipartisanship olive branch to get together. this sends mccains camp scrambling to figure a way to trump the manuver. 6 hours latter they accept obamas gesture, and GO DIRECTLY to the media, asking obama to cancel friday. :tap:

McCain's statement was an effort to show leadership on an issue that has spread economic fears across the country and overshadowed the presidential campaign just six weeks from Election Day. The economy has not been McCain's strongest suit, and his move was an attempt to turn it into an opportunity to show he's the candidate of bipartisanship and action. Recent polls showed Obama with an advantage with voters in handling the economy.but didnt obama already beat him to the punch and demonstrate that leadership at 8:30 thismorning? :hunch:

The move put Obama in a bind. Rejecting the idea would allow McCain alone to appear above politics, but agreeing to suspend campaigning and the debate could make Obama look like he's following McCain's lead.

interesting tactic indeed. unfortunately it is rather transparent and seems a little desperate.

i know most of you hate discussing the tactics of the campaigns themselves but i find it facinating. you know, like political chess.

i can see where obama is in a bit of a catch-22. however, i agree that he needs to hold mccains feet to the fire on friday. in this instance i gotta think obama has more points to gain than points to lose. its a bit of a gamble that could pay off a little for mccain, but i doubt much.

stillers4me
09-24-2008, 05:30 PM
Actions speak louder than words.

tony hipchest
09-24-2008, 05:30 PM
lol. maybe mccain is going in for "brain surgery"... or atleast a thought transplant.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/24/mccain-wants-a-time-out_n_128991.html

Why does John McCain suddenly want to suspend his presidential campaign and postpone Friday's debate? His campaign surrogates are saying it's a typical "maverick" move, that McCain is simply "putting country first." Let's look at the evidence:

1) As Ben Smith notes, McCain's move "is a mark, most of all, that he doesn't like the way this campaign is going. ... The only thing that's changed in the last 48 hours is the public polling."

2) The idea of uniting the campaigns to find a bipartisan solution to the Wall Street crisis wasn't even McCain's idea. A few minutes ago, Obama spokesman Bill Burton emailed to reporters:

"At 8:30 this morning, Senator Obama called Senator McCain to ask him if he would join in issuing a joint statement outlining their shared principles and conditions for the Treasury proposal and urging Congress and the White House to act in a bipartisan manner to pass such a proposal. At 2:30 this afternoon, Senator McCain returned Senator Obama's call and agreed to join him in issuing such a statement. The two campaigns are currently working together on the details."
3) John McCain has skipped more votes during this session than any member of the Senate except for Tim Johnson, who had major brain surgery. He has cast a single vote in five months, since April 9. All of a sudden, McCain is demanding that the presidential race shut down so he can return to Washington?

4) A reminder: President Bush was able to debate John Kerry while he was president. For all of his sudden urgency, McCain acknowledged just yesterday that he had not even read the administration's three-page bailout proposal. :doh:

5) It's not clear at all that having McCain and Obama back in DC will actually help. "What does seem apparent, though, is that putting the two candidates in the negotiating room is far more likely to distract--and derail--negotiations than having them out on the hustings," Jonathan Cohn writes at the New Republic.

It's impossible to know why McCain chose this course, but it sure seems like more of a political stunt than a maverick moment.


yep, reading the actual proposal is louder than "words".

Dino 6 Rings
09-24-2008, 05:39 PM
If McCain goes to washington and starts slamming heads into desk tops and gets people working together, then flys to Florida and debates Obama on Foreign Policy, then flys back to washington to check on the legislation and get people of both parties working together and solid fair deal in place that isn't a blank check to walstreet and is really part of the recovery of the economy...Obama is in trouble.

It'll be interesting to see what the Old Man has in him.

stillers4me
09-24-2008, 05:45 PM
Obama's done nothing but campaign for president since he became a senator. Why change now?

tony hipchest
09-24-2008, 06:31 PM
If McCain goes to washington and starts slamming heads into desk tops and gets people working together, then flys to Florida and debates Obama on Foreign Policy, then flys back to washington to check on the legislation and get people of both parties working together and solid fair deal in place that isn't a blank check to walstreet and is really part of the recovery of the economy...Obama is in trouble.

It'll be interesting to see what the Old Man has in him.:thumbsup:

now theres a response i get, and can deal with. im not sure of the logistics though. whats a flight from washington to fla.? about 2 hrs?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Obama's done nothing but campaign for president since he became a senator. Why change now? maybe he should just quit altogether and concede the presidency once mccain lands in washington. :rolleyes:

MACH1
09-24-2008, 06:37 PM
Hmm. Who's the leader and who's the pupet that votes present. One puts country first the other puts I first. Guess it's easier to have 20/20 hindsight after your competition takes the lead on the problem.

tony hipchest
09-24-2008, 07:04 PM
Hmm. Who's the leader and who's the pupet that votes present. One puts country first the other puts I first. Guess it's easier to have 20/20 hindsight after your competition takes the lead on the problem.speaking of "meat puppets", wheres sarah palin? cant mccain just send her to washington in his place [rhetorical]? after all, she can unite both sides of the aisle and insure absolutely no corrupt shennanigans go on or loopholes are introduced. :chuckle:

Mosca
09-24-2008, 07:09 PM
Latest CNN headline:

McCain: No bailout deal, then no debate Friday

Hmmm. With all due respect to those who love McCain's "style", most Americans are calling for a thought out, reasoned response rather than a rush to resolution that may backfire in our faces. I can't see how this "I'll take my ball and go home" approach benefits him. If anything, I think it makes him look like every other asshole boss you've ever had, the ones who don't understand what it is that actually has to be done yet insists on having the work yesterday, resulting in half-assed, buggy results.

Mosca
09-24-2008, 07:14 PM
If McCain goes to washington and starts slamming heads into desk tops and gets people working together, then flys to Florida and debates Obama on Foreign Policy, then flys back to washington to check on the legislation and get people of both parties working together and solid fair deal in place that isn't a blank check to walstreet and is really part of the recovery of the economy...Obama is in trouble.

It'll be interesting to see what the Old Man has in him.

Unfortunately, in the real world when you "start slamming heads into desktops" it doesn't make people work together, it makes them mad at you.

xfl2001fan
09-24-2008, 07:24 PM
Unfortunately, in the real world when you "start slamming heads into desktops" it doesn't make people work together, it makes them mad at you.

I'm pretty sure he meant it figuratively, not literally.

Also, have you seen Full Metal Jacket? The Drill Sergeants job is to make all of his recruits to work together and he does that by beating them down.

Mosca
09-24-2008, 07:38 PM
I'm pretty sure he meant it figuratively, not literally.

Also, have you seen Full Metal Jacket? The Drill Sergeants job is to make all of his recruits to work together and he does that by beating them down.

I know he meant it figuratively. But the principle works the same figuratively, too. And the recruits in FMJ had a different goal than reasoned, intelligent resolution to a problem that has hundreds of billions of dollars hanging in the balance of the wording. And there are a lot of men out there who take the "beat down" principle to their wives and children,and it doesn't work out very well for either involved, depending on whether or not you want a cowed wife and scared children. And I am definitely not implying that of you, only extending your analogy to show how it doesn't really apply to most situations.

It is a management style that is ineffective for government; you really have no leverage. And it is generally ineffective in ANY situation where you don't have total control of the people you are hammering on, and where you need anything other than mindless labor.

tony hipchest
09-24-2008, 07:50 PM
Latest CNN headline:

McCain: No bailout deal, then no debate Friday

Hmmm. With all due respect to those who love McCain's "style", most Americans are calling for a thought out, reasoned response rather than a rush to resolution that may backfire in our faces. I can't see how this "I'll take my ball and go home" approach benefits him. If anything, I think it makes him look like every other asshole boss you've ever had, the ones who don't understand what it is that actually has to be done yet insists on having the work yesterday, resulting in half-assed, buggy results.
wow. up until this, i was almost willing to give mccain credit for a calculated tactical gamble of putting obama in a cant win situation. again, i have given him too much credit.

now it just looks like he's going into "operation meltdown".

plenty still needs addressed before it is inked-

Dems seek to slash bailout as Bush readies speech

http://news.yahoo.com/story/ap/20080924/ap_on_bi_ge/financial_meltdown;_ylt=ArOG5NqUlMO7uz45srWbqrib.H QA

With the administration's original proposal deeply unpopular in Congress, top House leaders issued an upbeat statement at day's end saying that they had made progress toward revised legislation. "We are committed to continuing to work cooperatively and on a bipartisan basis to safeguard the interests of the American taxpayers," said Speaker Nancy Pelosi and House Republican leader John Boehner, R-Ohio.



Earlier, Paulson agreed to demands from critics in both parties to limit the pay packages of Wall Street executives whose companies would benefit from the proposed bailout.


looks like theyre working together even without mccains hallowed presence.

ohiosteelerfan20
09-24-2008, 07:55 PM
Maybe they can move the vp debate to friday. I mean Palin is ready right?:rofl: From day one right?:toofunny:

tony hipchest
09-24-2008, 08:37 PM
Maybe they can move the vp debate to friday. I mean Palin is ready right?:rofl: From day one right?:toofunny:
lol. palin has to be under a gag order. biden (king of the gaffes) has done about 80 interviews since being nominated.

palin has done about 3. she was in new york today to get her feet wet in "foreign affairs", meeting with different leaders-

its pretty evident her directives are to "shut up and look pretty"-

she met with pakistani president President Asif Ali Zardari who commented as he shook her hand, upon introduction, that he now sees why so many people are infatuated/ in love, with her. :naughty:


unfortunately that AP article has since been edited, to remove the actual quote of pakistani prez drooling all over her. heres the post edited version-

http://news.yahoo.com/story/ap/20080924/ap_on_el_pr/palin;_ylt=ArJrJonNK0clx1h578Etamxv24cA

Palin got a glimpse of ground zero for the Sept. 11 terror attacks in New York as her motorcade made its way downtown to a private meeting with Iraqi President Jalal Talabani. She did not respond to a reporter's question about what she thought when she passed by the 16-acre site.

i guess mccain wasnt there to tell her what she thinks.

As Palin sought to establish her credentials in world affairs, first lady Laura Bush said that Palin lacked sufficient foreign policy experience but was "a quick study."


Recent surveys have shown that Palin's popularity, while still strong, has begun to fade.

and here is what was actually said (a quick google revealed another)-

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/24/pakistans-president-tells-palin-she-is-gorgeous/

NEW YORK (CNN) – Sarah Palin and the foreign leaders she has met with in New York have said very little to reporters over the last two days, but the press happened to be in the room on Wednesday for one eyebrow-raising exchange, as the new president of Pakistan lavished praise on Palin's looks.

On entering a room filled with several Pakistani officials this afternoon, Palin was immediately greeted by Sherry Rehman, the country's Information Minister.

"And how does one keep looking that good when one is that busy?," Rehman asked, drawing friendly laughter from the room when she complimented Palin.

"Oh, thank you," Palin said.

Pakistan's recently-elected president, Asif Ali Zardari, entered the room seconds later. Palin rose to shake his hand, saying she was “honored” to meet him.

Zardari then called her "gorgeous" and said: "Now I know why the whole of America is crazy about you."

"You are so nice," Palin said, smiling. "Thank you."

A handler from Zardari's entourage then told the two politicians to keep shaking hands for the cameras.

"If he's insisting, I might hug," Zardari said. Palin smiled politely.

The Alaska governor did not answer questions from reporters at her first two appearances on Wednesday, when she joined McCain in meetings with Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili and Ukrainian president Viktor Yushchenko, and then traveled downtown to meet with Iraqi president Jalal Talabani.

But she did offer brief remarks to a reporter at the Zardari meeting who asked about her day.

"It's going great," Palin said. "These meetings are very informative and helpful, and a lot of good people sharing appreciation for America."

Preacher
09-24-2008, 08:49 PM
lol. palin has to be under a gag order. biden (king of the gaffes) has done about 80 interviews since being nominated.

palin has done about 3. she was in new york today to get her feet wet in "foreign affairs", meeting with different leaders-

its pretty evident her directives are to "shut up and look pretty"-

she met with pakistani president President Asif Ali Zardari who commented as he shook her hand, upon introduction, that he now sees why so many people are infatuated/ in love, with her. :naughty:


unfortunately that AP article has since been edited, to remove the actual quote of pakistani prez drooling all over her. heres the post edited version-

http://news.yahoo.com/story/ap/20080924/ap_on_el_pr/palin;_ylt=ArJrJonNK0clx1h578Etamxv24cA



i guess mccain wasnt there to tell her what she thinks.





and here is what was actually said (a quick google revealed another)-

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/24/pakistans-president-tells-palin-she-is-gorgeous/


I never figured you for a sexist.

Oh wait... it's not sexist if it is against a GOP right?

Typical.

tony hipchest
09-24-2008, 09:00 PM
I never figured you for a sexist.

Oh wait... it's not sexist if it is against a GOP right?

Typical.youre sexist for assuming that of me, and YOUR party is sexist for not allowing their candidate to speak freely.

dont blame me. im just calling it how it is. put your head in the sand. youre voting for a man who wont allow his female running mate to speek freely.

the democratic party would NEVER shieled hillary clinton in such an oppressive manner. she has always been free to give interviews and engage the press.

just cause you dont like the truth or facts is no reason to label me.

it is, what it is. take it up with your party. its costing them, not me.

more deflection though.

typical

Preacher
09-24-2008, 09:01 PM
youre sexist for assuming that of me, and YOUR party is sexist for not allowing their candidate to speak freely.

dont blame me. im just calling it how it is. put your head in the sand. youre voting for a man who wont allow his female running mate to speek freely.

the democratic party would NEVER shiled hillary clinton in such an oppressive manner. she has always been free to give interviews and engage the press.

just cause you dont like the truth or facts is no reason to label me.

it is, what it is. take it up with your party. its costing them, not me.

Nope...

Your ASSUMING facts....

and ASSUMING it is because she can't speak for herself.

Guess what.. your assumptions don't equate to fact.

Ever think that it could be because they want to keep her as a trump card for the debates.... Not give Biden anything to practice against?

No... never could be anything like that. Its the GOP... it MUST be evil!




Funny thing about labeling...

I am not GOP. I disowned them years ago.

steelwall
09-24-2008, 09:02 PM
What do you think Mcain is afraid of? Did Mcain go out and talk to all wall street investors and make them weary of trading? What is Obamas solution to this crisis can you tell me?

I've been following both candidates and I still don't know where Obama stands on practicly anything.

I'm not against a black president, or even a president which has had little experiance, but I at least like to know were that canididate stands on issues.

Obama could be the best thing since sliced bread, but I still have no idea of how he plans to deal with the current economic crisis.

Just seems when it comes to the economy the democrates have an automatic atvantage....why? Am I suposed to vote for Obama because he's a Democrate which gives him a 10 point spread on the economy simply because he's a Democrate? I don't buy it.

Tell me something he's going to do to reverse our economic failings...no sarcasm.. I really want to know..

tony hipchest
09-24-2008, 09:15 PM
Nope...

Your ASSUMING facts....

and ASSUMING it is because she can't speak for herself.

Guess what.. your assumptions don't equate to fact.

Ever think that it could be because they want to keep her as a trump card for the debates.... Not give Biden anything to practice against?

No... never could be anything like that. Its the GOP... it MUST be evil!




Funny thing about labeling...

I am not GOP. I disowned them years ago.ok. your candidate in this specific election. semantics. you are the one with the sexist assumptions though.

mccain is keeping her under wraps because of her inexperience (hes afraid she might sink them before they even set sail) not because she is a woman. do you think mccain would keep hillary from speaking with the press if she were his running mate? (for arguments sakes) hell no!

but for them to parade her around to the wolf calls of foreign leaders reeks of sexism, even if it really isnt there. at a point, perception becomes reality.

blame and point the finger at me and defend them. thats fine. but i think it makes you look naive and silly.

it is THEIR campaign and strategy, not mine. dont make it out like it is.

The Patriot
09-24-2008, 09:30 PM
What do you think Mcain is afraid of? Did Mcain go out and talk to all wall street investors and make them weary of trading? What is Obamas solution to this crisis can you tell me?

I've been following both candidates and I still don't know where Obama stands on practicly anything.

I'm not against a black president, or even a president which has had little experiance, but I at least like to know were that canididate stands on issues.

Obama could be the best thing since sliced bread, but I still have no idea of how he plans to deal with the current economic crisis.

Just seems when it comes to the economy the democrates have an automatic atvantage....why? Am I suposed to vote for Obama because he's a Democrate which gives him a 10 point spread on the economy simply because he's a Democrate? I don't buy it.

Tell me something he's going to do to reverse our economic failings...no sarcasm.. I really want to know..

That is exactly why we are having these debates on Friday. McCain should not be allowed to suspend them. I want to hear what these guys have to say, now.

tony hipchest
09-24-2008, 09:40 PM
What do you think Mcain is afraid of? Did Mcain go out and talk to all wall street investors and make them weary of trading? What is Obamas solution to this crisis can you tell me?

I've been following both candidates and I still don't know where Obama stands on practicly anything.

..then maybe you should just vote for mccain then (although he hasnt offered up any solutions either).

nobody has them as we are in pretty much unchartered water.

it seems like you are asking a single person (or few) on a single message board to sum up and entire candidates platform. that can be dangerous. with the internet, the sources of info are endless.

ive taken in dozens (if not hundereds of viewpoints) to formulate my opinion. left ,right, and to the middle, on both sides of a specific subject.

i would suggest googling "mccains economic advisors" and "obamas economic advisors" and reading alot of articles both for and agains each candidates advisors. i leaned alot by doing that.

sometimes you will come across an article such as this-

COMMENTARY

Allison: A conservative for Obama
Wick Allison, D MAGAZINE
Monday, September 22, 2008

The more I listen to and read about "the most liberal member of the U.S. Senate," the more I like him. Barack Obama strikes a chord with me like no political figure since Ronald Reagan. To explain why, I need to explain why I am a conservative and what it means to me.

In 1964, at the age of 16, I organized the Dallas County Youth for Goldwater. My senior thesis at the University of Texas was on the conservative intellectual revival in America. Twenty years later, I was invited by William F. Buckley Jr. to join the board of National Review. I later became its publisher.

Conservatism to me is less a political philosophy than a stance, a recognition of the fallibility of man and of man's institutions. Conservatives respect the past not for its antiquity but because it represents, as G.K. Chesterton said, the democracy of the dead; it gives the benefit of the doubt to customs and laws tried and tested in the crucible of time. Conservatives are skeptical of abstract theories and utopian schemes, doubtful that government is wiser than its citizens, and always ready to test any political program against actual results.

Liberalism always seemed to me to be a system of "oughts." We ought to do this or that because it's the right thing to do, regardless of whether it works or not. It is a doctrine based on intentions, not results, on feeling good rather than doing good.

But today it is so-called conservatives who are cemented to political programs when they clearly don't work. The Bush tax cuts—a solution for which there was no real problem and which he refused to end even when the nation went to war—led to huge deficit spending and a $3 trillion growth in the federal debt. Facing this, John McCain pumps his "conservative" credentials by proposing even bigger tax cuts. Meanwhile, a movement that once fought for limited government has presided over the greatest growth of government in our history. That is not conservatism; it is profligacy using conservatism as a mask.

Today it is conservatives, not liberals, who talk with alarming bellicosity about making the world "safe for democracy." It is John McCain who says America's job is to "defeat evil," a theological expansion of the nation's mission that would make George Washington cough out his wooden teeth.

This kind of conservatism, which is not conservative at all, has produced financial mismanagement, the waste of human lives, the loss of moral authority and the wreckage of our economy that McCain now threatens to make worse.

Barack Obama is not my ideal candidate for president. (In fact, I made the maximum donation to John McCain during the primaries, when there was still hope he might come to his senses.) But I now see that Obama is almost the ideal candidate for this moment in American history. I disagree with him on many issues. But those don't matter as much as what Obama offers, which is a deeply conservative view of the world. Nobody can read Obama's books (which, it is worth noting, he wrote himself) or listen to him speak without realizing that this is a thoughtful, pragmatic and prudent man. It gives me comfort just to think that after eight years of George W. Bush we will have a president who has actually read the Federalist Papers.

Most important, Obama will be a realist. I doubt he will taunt Russia, as McCain has, at the very moment when our national interest requires it as an ally. The crucial distinction in my mind is that, unlike John McCain, I am convinced he will not impulsively take us into another war unless American national interests are directly threatened.

"Every great cause," Eric Hoffer wrote, "begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket." As a cause, conservatism may be dead. But as a stance, as a way of making judgments in a complex and difficult world, I believe it is very much alive in the instincts and predispositions of a liberal named Barack Obama.

Allison is chairman and editor-in-chief of D Magazine in Dallas, from which this column is taken. The magazine's Web site is www.dmagazine.com

steelwall
09-24-2008, 09:46 PM
then maybe you should just vote for mccain then (although he hasnt offered up any solutions either).

nobody has them as we are in pretty much unchartered water.

it seems like you are asking a single person (or few) on a single message board to sum up and entire candidates platform. that can be dangerous. with the internet, the sources of info are endless.

ive taken in dozens (if not hundereds of viewpoints) to formulate my opinion. left ,right, and to the middle, on both sides of a specific subject.

i would suggest googling "mccains economic advisors" and "obamas economic advisors" and reading alot of articles both for and agains each candidates advisors. i leaned alot by doing that.

sometimes you will come across an article such as this-

Listen Toney, I like you, and as I said no sarcasm is intended. You are allways the one to make these Obama threads, so I guess I figured you knew something about the guy I didnt. If not then why make these threads? You Seem to be the Obama expert, you constantly make threads in his favor......and thats fine. I don't need media biased articles, so whats your opinion? I'd gladly take the opinion of an average joe over some article that basicly repeats the retoric I've allready heard.

MACH1
09-24-2008, 09:48 PM
Maybe they can move the vp debate to friday. I mean Palin is ready right?:rofl: From day one right?:toofunny:

Yeah and Biden's not the sharpest tool in the shed either.

Vice presidential candidate Joe Biden says today's leaders should take a lesson from the history books and follow Democrat Franklin D. Roosevelt's response to a financial crisis.


"When the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the, you know, the princes of greed. He said, 'Look, here's what happened,' " Barack Obama's running mate recently told the CBS Evening News.


The only problem is Republican Herbert Hoover was in office when the stock market crashed in October 1929. There also was no television at the time; TV wasn't introduced to the public until a decade later.
http://trumanstake.blogspot.com/2008/09/biden-coal-plants-here-in-america.html

:doh: Who needs a history lesson? :doh:

Then there are these little gems of wisdom.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NGRhNzJlMWY5NjdiNzhjMTRkYjMzNjYwOGJmYzNjMTY=

Biden, on a post-debate appearance on MSNBC, October 30, 2007: “The only guy on the other side who’s qualified is John McCain.”

Biden appearing on The Daily Show, August 2, 2005: “John McCain is a personal friend, a great friend, and I would be honored to run with or against John McCain, because I think the country would be better off, be well off no matter who...”

steelwall
09-24-2008, 09:49 PM
By they way if you read my 1st post I didn't ask you to sum up all his policis as that immposible, only his policy on the economy.

tony hipchest
09-24-2008, 09:53 PM
steelwall, sorry, after reread of my response it may seem like i totally dismissed your question. i am awaiting the debates and follow up for alot of the specifics.

it is a personal decision for me right now. obama is gonna address more of the issues that directly affect me. at this point and time, i think we need democracy to be the main focus, and not capitalism to the point where it drowns the world market in debt and turmoil. i dont think the rich need the largest tax breaks.

oboma is more likely to carry out the democratic platforms i respect tham mccain is. i do not like the people mccain has surrounded himself with.

i trust in economics that more closely resemble clintons than bush's.

for me, right now, i dont even need all the specifics. its the general idea, that is driving me.

again, what works best for me, may not be best for the majority on this board.

i would be more specific, but i have hundereds of posts and dozens of links on the subject already. just search my profile if you care what i think.

bill richardson in '12! :tt02:

:chuckle:

tony hipchest
09-24-2008, 10:03 PM
Yeah and Biden's not the sharpest tool in the shed either.

] do a search on the article of bidens gaffes. :sofunny:

there was a hilarious anecdote where he was introducing a representative or senator for the specific state he was speaking in. anyways he said something like "Senator Schmoe, where are you? Please stand up for a round of applause".

the specific senator (or whatever he was) was a parapalegic confined to a wheelchair. :doh:

steelwall
09-24-2008, 10:18 PM
steelwall, sorry, after reread of my response it may seem like i totally dismissed your question. i am awaiting the debates and follow up for alot of the specifics.

it is a personal decision for me right now. obama is gonna address more of the issues that directly affect me. at this point and time, i think we need democracy to be the main focus, and not capitalism to the point where it drowns the world market in debt and turmoil. i dont think the rich need the largest tax breaks.

oboma is more likely to carry out the democratic platforms i respect tham mccain is. i do not like the people mccain has surrounded himself with.

i trust in economics that more closely resemble clintons than bush's.

for me, right now, i dont even need all the specifics. its the general idea, that is driving me.

again, what works best for me, may not be best for the majority on this board.

i would be more specific, but i have hundereds of posts and dozens of links on the subject already. just search my profile if you care what i think.

bill richardson in '12! :tt02:

:chuckle:


Thank you Toney, I will research your posts. Given the current econimic condition...honestly I am worried. Perhaps I am partial to Mcain because I myself am a vet.

I guess my fear is that so much will henge of the economy and our enemies will play this to their advantage.

However, without a stable economy ....enemy or not we could be doomed from withen (not a dooms day thinker here, just a realist)

I have problems with Obamas past, the church he attended...and so forth. Had it been Mcain attending a church with the teachings that Obama followed the Republicans woulndt touch him with a 20 foot cattle prod.

Perhaps I am biased, but it is not because of Obamas race. I'm getting off track, but if he is truely the best candiate I would vote for him, however I currently cannot see that he is.

I have followed this election very closely (even though all my information comes from media outlets as I'm in China) but I will vote this election.

Sometimes I feel things are worthless (voteing tha is) we still have the congress, in my opinion most are the scum of the Earth, so how much power does a president actually have.

If Obama wins, and we have a majior crisis, he will take the heat.... more likely because of his race, is that what this country needs? Not basing my vote on race, but you have to admit it is a factor.

Godfather
09-24-2008, 11:01 PM
I think they should postpone or cancel the first debate. Both candidates are sitting Senators and they should be at work right now.

Of course I'm biased...I would love to see Ole Miss get screwed :sofunny:

tony hipchest
09-24-2008, 11:10 PM
Thank you Toney, I will research your posts. Given the current econimic condition...honestly I am worried. Perhaps I am partial to Mcain because I myself am a vet.

I guess my fear is that so much will henge of the economy and our enemies will play this to their advantage.

However, without a stable economy ....enemy or not we could be doomed from withen (not a dooms day thinker here, just a realist)

I have problems with Obamas past, the church he attended...and so forth. Had it been Mcain attending a church with the teachings that Obama followed the Republicans woulndt touch him with a 20 foot cattle prod.

.just for the record, the article i linke above want a biassed media report. it was from a life long conservative and mccain supporter-

In 1964, at the age of 16, I organized the Dallas County Youth for Goldwater. My senior thesis at the University of Texas was on the conservative intellectual revival in America. Twenty years later, I was invited by William F. Buckley Jr. to join the board of National Review. I later became its publisher.

by no means am i an obama expert. i didnt even start looking into him or researching until it was evident that my guy (bill richardson) was out of the race.

fwiw- i voted for bush in 04 for nothing more than "staying the course" and showing national soliditarity in a time of war. nothing else. i totally disagreed with the man on just about everything, yet gave him my vote for the appearance of national cohesiveness and to supporth our guys/gals overseas.

im not worried about obamas reverend. ive surrounded myself with people far worse. ive had black and white friends who would be compared as equally racist as the rev. none of their beliefs had any impact on my own.

hell, if you look into some of the people mccain has surrounded himself with, its not to rosey.

his pastor called islam evil and the antichrist. :noidea: (im Christian and believe if "youre not for me, then you are against me" but i wont go there)

if were trying to squash terrorism from radical islams, a president who ties himself to a religious leader who practically invokes reverse jihad, is probably the last thing that is best for national security.

shoot, mccains own wife was a drug addict who was busted stealing precriptions from her own charity. (i cant hold that against him though).

i am much more scared about mccains ties with his economic mentor phil gramm than i am obamas former religious advisor. after all, gramm is messing with MY money, and retirement, mortgage, economy, etc.

the rev. has no such impact.

obama is a supporter of the americorps program. for me, this is important. i get the feeling that most republican voters feel this is welfare handouts to the poor as opposed to an actual investment in our future, that will save tons of money down the road.

i definitely have opinions on the matter. many have been posted, and many have been dismissed and ignored.

however i do believe the "other side of the coin" has a right to be represented on this board, which is why i post much of what i do. needless to say, it is met with much resistance.

but the balance of the american public is much more evenly split than what those who post on the subject on this board would suggest. ironically enough, dan rooney has even come out as an obama supporter.

Mosca
09-24-2008, 11:15 PM
I think they should postpone or cancel the first debate. Both candidates are sitting Senators and they should be at work right now.

Of course I'm biased...I would love to see Ole Miss get screwed :sofunny:

They'd be about as useful as you or I would be when a family member is in the hospital; sitting in the waiting room, wringing our hands, contributing nothing to the real work of saving the patient, but "being there" because of appearances.

I'd prefer they have the debates. And any McCain supporter would, too. Your guy is looking worse and worse. This looks to most of the rest of us like an attempt to use the crisis as an excuse to avoid the showdown, and his bald invitation looks like a blatant attempt to use the crisis to make political hay. Americans can detect when a candidate pulls an Eddie Haskell, like McCain just tried.

augustashark
09-24-2008, 11:22 PM
They'd be about as useful as you or I would be when a family member is in the hospital; sitting in the waiting room, wringing our hands, contributing nothing to the real work of saving the patient, but "being there" because of appearances.

I'd prefer they have the debates. And any McCain supporter would, too. Your guy is looking worse and worse. This looks to most of the rest of us like an attempt to use the crisis as an excuse to avoid the showdown, and his bald invitation looks like a blatant attempt to use the crisis to make political hay. Americans can detect when a candidate pulls an Eddie Haskell, like McCain just tried.

I disagree, to me it looks like someone ready to lead and take charge. The Dems are already on board with the bail out (with some adjustments). The good guys are not, McCain can come to Washington and deliver the R's to make sure the bill passes. McCain to me has a hugh part to play in all of this. Obama does'nt even need to be there. Hmmm sounds like what might happen in Nov.:drink:

augustashark
09-24-2008, 11:24 PM
lol. maybe mccain is going in for "brain surgery"... or atleast a thought transplant.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/24/mccain-wants-a-time-out_n_128991.html



yep, reading the actual proposal is louder than "words".

For the love of God, would you quit using articles from the huffington post!:rofl:

I

tony hipchest
09-24-2008, 11:44 PM
For the love of God, would you quit using articles from the huffington post!:rofl:

I sure. but for the love of God will you show some stones and actually address some of the points addressed?

no? :noidea:

excuse me while i carry on then....

:hatsoff:

augustashark
09-25-2008, 12:03 AM
sure. but for the love of God will you show some stones and actually address some of the points addressed?

no? :noidea:

excuse me while i carry on then....

:hatsoff:

I would if they were good/factual points. :hatsoff:

You post an article from some lady who claims to be a conservative from the Goldwater days, how in the hell does that even relate to this story. Means nothing to me, nor should it mean anything to any conservative. Your incoherent posts are really amusing. Blind love for Obama is one thing, but what you have going on is well:sissies:

tony hipchest
09-25-2008, 12:23 AM
I would if they were good/factual points. :hatsoff:

You post an article from some lady who claims to be a conservative from the Goldwater days, how in the hell does that even relate to this story. Means nothing to me, nor should it mean anything to any conservative. Your incoherent posts are really amusing. Blind love for Obama is one thing, but what you have going on is well:sissies:only a blind noncompoop would thing that allison wick was a woman. :toofunny:

speaking of "chum" in the water... " *sniff, sniff* i smell pink shark. :fishing:

so you still living at LITP's house? (i remember that as your last internet stalker troll "location") :jerkit:

heres a question you might have the stones to address....

why's your boy mccain pu$$ing out on a debate?

oh, thats right. he wants to push it to next thursday and shield his knee-jerk selection palin from any public scrutiny. :toofunny:

augustashark
09-25-2008, 12:35 AM
only a blind noncompoop would thing that allison wick was a woman. :toofunny:

speaking of "chum" in the water... " *sniff, sniff* i smell pink shark. :fishing:

so you still living at LITP's house? (i remember that as your last internet stalker troll "location") :jerkit:

heres a question you might have the stones to address....

why's your boy mccain pu$$ing out on a debate?

oh, thats right. he wants to push it to next thursday and shield his knee-jerk selection palin from any public scrutiny. :toofunny:

Bwaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaahaaa, do you actually think I give one "pink shark" if Allison is a man or woman. Does not change the point.

Not "pu$$ing out" just setting himself up to look more like a leader. The debate will go on, and McCain will come out of it with a bump in the polls that will make you cry into your pillow late friday eve.:hug:

tony hipchest
09-25-2008, 01:45 AM
Bwaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaahaaa, do you actually think I give one "pink shark" if Allison is a man or woman. Does not change the point.

Not "pu$$ing out" just setting himself up to look more like a leader. The debate will go on, and McCain will come out of it with a bump in the polls that will make you cry into your pillow late friday eve.:hug:seriously, all your homo-inuendos aside... (tell tale proof of jumping the MB shark)-

it seems mccain is running back to his comfort zone.

he is more comfortable being in congress, as opposed to being on the presidency "big stage".

some, like him, are just better equipped in being a "big fish in a small pond".

BUT.... his job is no longer just a congressman. he is a freaking Presidential candidate!

dont you think he should act like it?

do you really believe the secret service give him and obama the same security to all the other senators and representatives? do you really think all the others receive the millions of campaign contributions these 2 presidential candidates have received?

the only thing mccain is proving is that he is a fine senior and leader on capitol hill. he's not ready for the white house though (hence the attempted delays).


and if you think im gonna be crying in my pillow i can only assume you will be biting yours. :toofunny:

augustashark
09-25-2008, 01:57 AM
seriously, all your homo-inuendos aside... (tell tale proof of jumping the MB shark)-

it seems mccain is running back to his comfort zone.

he is more comfortable being in congress, as opposed to being on the presidency "big stage".

some, like him, are just better equipped in being a "big fish in a small pond".

BUT.... his job is no longer just a congressman. he is a freaking Presidential candidate!

dont you think he should act like it?

do you really believe the secret service give him and obama the same security to all the other senators and representatives? do you really think all the others receive the millions of campaign contributions these 2 presidential candidates have received?

the only thing mccain is proving is that he is a fine senior and leader on capitol hill. he's not ready for the white house though (hence the attempted delays).


and if you think im gonna be crying in my pillow i can only assume you will be biting yours. :toofunny:

Geesh, don't you get it!

This whole thing is calculated. Sure he wants to put America first and make sure he can deliver the Repubs to get the bill passed (if you would have read my earlier post). He will come off (to the undecided) as a leader who takes charge. He will be at the debate and work Barry like a rented mule, kinda like I'm doing to you right now!:chuckle:

tony hipchest
09-25-2008, 02:18 AM
Geesh, don't you get it!

This whole thing is calculated. Sure he wants to put America first and make sure he can deliver the Repubs to get the bill passed (if you would have read my earlier post). He will come off (to the undecided) as a leader who takes charge. He will be at the debate and work Barry like a rented mule, kinda like I'm doing to you right now!:chuckle:

:finger:...................:alcoholic



:heha:.............:screwy:................... :trash:

while im not sure i understand your gibberish, even die hard "repubs" think mccain sucks :sofunny:

augustashark
09-25-2008, 02:25 AM
Hip, I'm waiting for you to cite an article from the daily kos, to try and make your points.:chuckle:

Btw, your post above was about what I expected from you.:thumbsup:

tony hipchest
09-25-2008, 02:34 AM
Hip, I'm waiting for you to cite an article from the daily kos, to try and make your points.:chuckle:

Btw, your post above was about what I expected from you.:thumbsup:sleepy guy who says he's going to bed says what via PM multiple times?




Goodnight puppet boy. Geesh your too easy! Need to find a new target.:wave:

nighty night .... puppet :rolleyes:

:yawn:

OBSESSED!

my jock is getting too heavy for even YOU to carry.

augustashark
09-25-2008, 02:38 AM
Just noticed that I said your when I should have said you're. Damn grammar mistakes. Oh well.

Oh yea, pulling quotes from PM's is the lowest form of conversation.:thumbsup:

You will never win mr pie!:doh:

HometownGal
09-25-2008, 08:13 AM
the only thing mccain is proving is that he is a fine senior and leader on capitol hill. he's not ready for the white house though (hence the attempted delays).




Proving himself as a leader on Capitol Hill is a very commendable qualification for Prez. :thumbsup:

And Obama has done exactly what to prove he is ready for the White House?

P.S. I live in a heavily Democratic state and Obama's lead here is rapidly diminishing. Seems to me that die hard Demos must think Obama sucks. :laughing:

lamberts-lost-tooth
09-25-2008, 08:25 AM
only a blind noncompoop would thing that allison wick was a woman. :toofunny:

speaking of "chum" in the water... " *sniff, sniff* i smell pink shark. :fishing:

so you still living at LITP's house? (i remember that as your last internet stalker troll "location") :jerkit:

heres a question you might have the stones to address....

why's your boy mccain pu$$ing out on a debate?

oh, thats right. he wants to push it to next thursday and shield his knee-jerk selection palin from any public scrutiny. :toofunny:

I was going to enter this conversation and debate the facts listed above........but.......well.....there are none.
Just fluff meanderings and emotional staements that are the political equivelant of a pillow case full of shredded wheat.

......:wave:

Mosca
09-25-2008, 09:12 AM
I was going to enter this conversation and debate the facts listed above........but.......well.....there are none.
Just fluff meanderings and emotional staements that are the political equivelant of a pillow case full of shredded wheat.

......:wave:

Um... you're right.

lamberts-lost-tooth
09-25-2008, 09:22 AM
Um... you're right.

Does this mean we can start picking out curtains together?:hunch:

Mosca
09-25-2008, 09:40 AM
Does this mean we can start picking out curtains together?:hunch:

:sofunny:

No, but maybe we might watch the game together!

:drink:

revefsreleets
09-25-2008, 10:20 AM
Honestly, the thing that scares me about all this is the fact that many Americans DO think that Obama will handle the economy in a better fashion than McCain based on.........based on a few campaign ads where he says he will.

Scary scary stuff...

McCain was doomed either way here. So he rolled the dice and tried to think outside the box...in a sense he's right, it would be better to hold the debate a couple days after the final bailout plan is in place...by debating in the middle of it, with no solution locked down, there will be all kijds of wild speculation flying around.

Mosca
09-25-2008, 10:31 AM
But tomorrow's debate is on foreign policy, McCain's supposed strong suit. Shouldn't the president be able to do more than one thing at a time? Shouldn't the president be able to work on leading the fight against financial crisis, and then talk for a couple hours about foreign policy in the evening? And he's not even president!

And then there's the point that the candidates can do nothing but interfere with the workings of the actual sorting out of the details. I can't see how postponing the debates can help America, or anyone in America, except John McCain.

revefsreleets
09-25-2008, 10:34 AM
But tomorrow's debate is on foreign policy, McCain's supposed strong suit. Shouldn't the president be able to do more than one thing at a time? Shouldn't the president be able to work on leading the fight against financial crisis, and then talk for a couple hours about foreign policy in the evening? And he's not even president!

And then there's the point that the candidates can do nothing but interfere with the workings of the actual sorting out of the details. I can't see how postponing the debates can help America, or anyone in America, except John McCain.

The debate tomorrow will drift into the economy ten minutes in...

tony hipchest
09-25-2008, 10:43 AM
Honestly, the thing that scares me about all this is the fact that many Americans DO think that Obama will handle the economy in a better fashion than McCain based on.........based on a few campaign ads where he says he will.

Scary scary stuff...

McCain was doomed either way here. So he rolled the dice and tried to think outside the box...in a sense he's right, it would be better to hold the debate a couple days after the final bailout plan is in place...by debating in the middle of it, with no solution locked down, there will be all kijds of wild speculation flying around.ahhh...

refreshing.

an opinion and some aknowledgement of facts. thanks for bringing this thread back down to earth.

do you think obamas representation of the democratic ideals lend confidence to the people or are ALL democrats so fickle that they base ALL their opinions and beliefs on a few tv ads?

its not as if the democratic party and its philosophies were just invented along with "reality tv".

and another question...

do you think mccain even mentioning phil gramm and the treasury dept in the same sentence hurts his credibility on such matters?

its no secret that phil gramm is his economic guru.

i do agree mccain is rolling the dice and it is a calculated risk and i wouldnt necessarily say he is doomed either way. i just wish i saw alot less gambling from his side because theres been alot of it lately. regardless who wins this election, i wanna be able to have confidence in either candidate, and unfortunately i was muchmore confident in him when he 1st won the rep. nomination than i am now.

tony hipchest
09-25-2008, 10:46 AM
The debate tomorrow will drift into the economy ten minutes in...wont the debate be moderated?

Mosca
09-25-2008, 10:54 AM
The debate tomorrow will drift into the economy ten minutes in...


And the president should be able to speak cogently about foreign policy in one sentence and the economy in the next... and if he can't, then the setting is the same for both candidates, and neither will be able to.

Neither candidate can help in Washington during this resolution; not even their votes are needed, because it's not going to be close. Most of the details are hammered out in committee, the leaders of the House and Senate from both parties are working well together, and the President is ready to sign anything that is reasonable. There is no reason to postpone the debate.

And enough Americans have had the feeling of having someone steal an idea from them and take credit for it, and enough Americans have seen someone act sanctimonious to take advantage of a situation, that they don't appreciate seeing it in someone who is going to be boss.

revefsreleets
09-25-2008, 10:57 AM
Oh boy...the tone changed dramatically here, so I know what THAT means (3 against 1, by my count)

A) Obama's representing Democratic ideals is always suspect, because he didn't come back into the fold (ie under the Reid/Pelosi influence) until the convention. He's basically simply carrying their banner at this point, and I don't trust the Democratic leadership at all.
B) Gramm is interesting because the baby always gets thrown out with the bathwater. The dude has made some questionable statements and decisions, and it's clear McCain uses him as an advisor, but it's also clear that McCain takes lots of advice and those does with it what he pleases.
C) Yes, the debates will be moderated. Which is why it'll take 10 minutes for them to get off-topic, not one.

Mosca
09-25-2008, 11:04 AM
Oh boy...the tone changed dramatically here, so I know what THAT means (3 against 1, by my count)

A) Obama's representing Democratic ideals is always suspect, because he didn't come back into the fold (ie under the Reid/Pelosi influence) until the convention. He's basically simply carrying their banner at this point, and I don't trust the Democratic leadership at all.
B) Gramm is interesting because the baby always gets thrown out with the bathwater. The dude has made some questionable statements and decisions, and it's clear McCain uses him as an advisor, but it's also clear that McCain takes lots of advice and those does with it what he pleases.
C) Yes, the debates will be moderated. Which is why it'll take 10 minutes for them to get off-topic, not one.

LOL, it's about time we safety blitzed someone! C'mon, pick a guy to block!

:tt02:

I'm not interested in piling on you; I just want to make some reasonable points as to why the debates should NOT be canceled; that canceling them serves no one but John McCain.

revefsreleets
09-25-2008, 11:14 AM
I don't see why cancelling them serves McCain. If the topic is foreign policy, I fully expect him to eat Obama's lunch.

Mosca
09-25-2008, 11:39 AM
Then in the words of Johnny Ringo, "Age quod agis... Eventus stultorum magister. "

(Course, we know what happened to him, LOL.)

revefsreleets
09-25-2008, 11:48 AM
"Do what you are doing...fools must be taught by experience"

Interesting.

I though that was Doc Holliday who said that...

tony hipchest
09-25-2008, 12:16 PM
Oh boy...the tone changed dramatically here, so I know what THAT means (3 against 1, by my count)

A) Obama's representing Democratic ideals is always suspect, because he didn't come back into the fold (ie under the Reid/Pelosi influence) until the convention. He's basically simply carrying their banner at this point, and I don't trust the Democratic leadership at all.
B) Gramm is interesting because the baby always gets thrown out with the bathwater. The dude has made some questionable statements and decisions, and it's clear McCain uses him as an advisor, but it's also clear that McCain takes lots of advice and those does with it what he pleases.
C) Yes, the debates will be moderated. Which is why it'll take 10 minutes for them to get off-topic, not one.i know YOU dont trust the democrats, but the election wont be base on my or your vote. it will be based on the majority of the general population.

the question was do Americans think that Obama will handle the economy in a better fashion than McCain based on democratic philosophies as opposed to just a few tv ads? its not a loaded question, and by no means was i setting a trap for you or something.

geeze, i dont know why it is so hard to get a simpe answer to a simple question.

i get that mccain takes alot of advice from alot of people. i can admit that obamas ties with his reverend may hurt him. what i DONT get is why getting a mccain supporter to even admit his ties to gramm may hurt him in this time of economic crisis, is like pulling teeth.

this thread was started with a purpose of a discussion, not a fight. how the campaigns navigate this windy road to the white house WILL influence how people (the majority of the general public) will vote. maybe even moreso than the actual issues themselves. right or wrong, it is the nature of the beast.

personally, i am ready to get on to the debates and hear how the specific issues will be handled. as an american, i feel i am entitled to that and it is my right.

to see mccain put his heels into the ground all of a sudden seems a bit suspicious to me, and possibly a tactical error. lets get on with it already! :tt03:

MACH1
09-25-2008, 12:31 PM
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l29/drive-bymedia/Politics/ObamaWishElection-NFH.jpg

:chuckle:

Mosca
09-25-2008, 01:11 PM
"Do what you are doing...fools must be taught by experience"

Interesting.

I though that was Doc Holliday who said that...


The entire quotes, and their meanings, copied and pasted from IMDB. Tombstone might just be my favorite movie of all time; at least it is the one that I will watch any time that it is on.

Johnny Ringo: [Ringo steps up to Doc] And you must be Doc Holliday.
Doc Holliday: That's the rumor.
Johnny Ringo: You retired too?
Doc Holliday: Not me. I'm in my prime.
Johnny Ringo: Yeah, you look it.
Doc Holliday: And you must be Ringo. Look, darling, Johnny Ringo. The deadliest pistoleer since Wild Bill, they say. What do you think, darling? Should I hate him?
Kate: You don't even know him.
Doc Holliday: Yes, but there's just something about him. Something around the eyes, I don't know, reminds me of... me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.
Wyatt Earp: [to Ringo] He's drunk.
Doc Holliday: In vino veritas.
["In wine is truth" meaning: "When I'm drinking, I speak my mind"]
Johnny Ringo: Age quod agis.
["Do what you do" meaning: "Do what you do best"]
Doc Holliday: Credat Judaeus apella, non ego.
["The Jew Apella may believe it, not I" meaning: "I don't believe drinking is what I do best."]
Johnny Ringo: [pats his gun] Eventus stultorum magister.
["Events are the teachers of fools" meaning: "Fools have to learn by experience"]
Doc Holliday: [gives a Cheshire cat smile] In pace requiescat.
["Rest in peace" meaning: "It's your funeral!"]

tony hipchest
09-25-2008, 01:14 PM
Proving himself as a leader on Capitol Hill is a very commendable qualification for Prez. :thumbsup:

And Obama has done exactly what to prove he is ready for the White House?

P.S. I live in a heavily Democratic state and Obama's lead here is rapidly diminishing. Seems to me that die hard Demos must think Obama sucks. :laughing:isnt being able to honor ones commitments (such as an important scheduled debate) also a commendable qualification for prez? :hunch: i guess thats a question better served for his first wife.

PS- since i know you live in pennsylvania, i came across this article while reading the yahoo news...



Racism Could Hurt Obama in Pennsylvania
Voters in Media, Pa., say racism is a frequent topic of conversation

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/09/23/racism-could-hurt-obama-in-pennsylvania.html?s_cid=yn:racism-could-hurt-obama-in-pennsylvania

:hunch: maybe they do think he sucks. :shake01:

silver & black
09-25-2008, 01:16 PM
Obama's done nothing but campaign for president since he became a senator. Why change now?

Because CHANGE is what it's all about with him. :sofunny:

tony hipchest
09-25-2008, 02:28 PM
looks like mccain's melodramatic, knee-jerk overreaction and grandstanding was all for naught.

what a shame. washington did just fine w/o him swooping in to save the day. :laughing:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080925/ap_on_bi_ge/financial_meltdown

Lawmakers: Financial bailout agreement reached

WASHINGTON - Warned that time was running short to bolster the distressed economy, congressional Republicans and Democrats reported agreement in principle Thursday on a $700 billion bailout of the financial industry, and said they would present it to the Bush administration in hopes of a vote within days.

Emerging from a two-hour negotiating session, Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., said, "We are very confident that we can act expeditiously."

"I now expect that we will indeed have a plan that can pass the House, pass the Senate (and) be signed by the president," said Sen. Bob Bennett, R-Utah.

The bipartisan consensus on the general direction of the legislation was reported just hours before President Bush was to host presidential contenders Barack Obama and John McCain and congressional leaders at the White House for discussions on how to clear obstacles to the unpopular rescue plan.

Key lawmakers said at midday that few difficulties actually remained.

"There really isn't much of a deadlock to break," said Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee.

The White House remained cautious.



so what did we learn? obama is clearly the winner in this one. in a time of crisis, obama will remain calm and steadfast, and mccain will panic and react before thinking rationally.

obamas call out to mccain and proposal to offer america a bipartisan joint statement and a show of solidarity, mustve inspired those on capitol hill to move diligently and quickly. :chuckle:

mccains proposal to cancel everything and rush out to washington proved to be hasty and unneccesary.

he had a hand of 18 and told the dealer "hit me". :nono:

stlrtruck
09-25-2008, 03:34 PM
looks like mccain's melodramatic, knee-jerk overreaction and grandstanding was all for naught.

what a shame. washington did just fine w/o him swooping in to save the day. :laughing:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080925/ap_on_bi_ge/financial_meltdown

Lawmakers: Financial bailout agreement reached




so what did we learn? obama is clearly the winner in this one. in a time of crisis, obama will remain calm and steadfast, and mccain will panic and react before thinking rationally.

obamas call out to mccain and proposal to offer america a bipartisan joint statement and a show of solidarity, mustve inspired those on capitol hill to move diligently and quickly. :chuckle:

mccains proposal to cancel everything and rush out to washington proved to be hasty and unneccesary.

he had a hand of 18 and told the dealer "hit me". :nono:

I see a little bit differently but this is just my opinion:

Both men are still Senators and have a current responsibility to their states - correct? From McCain's reaction I get that he was more interested in taking care of something that needed taken care of and Obama was more like, "Let the others deal with it, I want the White House."

Regardless of the conversations that took place via phone, both men should have been heading back to DC to handle the situation in a timely manner. However, I don't see where the debate needed to be postponed. From the President's speech last night I gathered that this was going to be a quick thing and people needed to get their arse in gear in order to make decisions on the proposed "Bail Out." So with that understanding, both men should have A) spoke with President Bush (as Bush said he was going to have both there) about the proposed plan and then B) gone into their respective seats and voted for the plan, and finally C) got back on their planes and fly back to FL for the debate.

Maybe I'm just over simplifying it but to me, politics can't be that hard.

Preacher
09-25-2008, 03:36 PM
isnt being able to honor ones commitments (such as an important scheduled debate) also a commendable qualification for prez? :hunch: i guess thats a question better served for his first wife.



Oh, I don't know. maybe honoring your EARLIER commitment to congress is a MORE commendable qualification.

I guess that is a question better served for Obama's brother rotting away in Africa with no help from him.

Gee... Slinging this mud IS fun. Thanks for showing the way Tony.

Vis
09-25-2008, 03:58 PM
First Palin, Then Campaign Suspension. What Now?
SLATE PREDICTS MCCAIN'S NEXT 10 HAIL MARY STUNTS.

Posted Thursday, Sept. 25, 2008, at 1:39 PM ET

John McCain
1. Returns to Vietnam and jails himself.
2. Offers the post of "vice vice president" to Warren Buffett.
3. Challenges Obama to suspend campaign so they both can go and personally drill for oil offshore.
4. Learns to use computer.
5. Does bombing run over Taliban-controlled tribal areas of Pakistan.
6. Offers to forgo salary, sell one house.
7. Sex-change operation.
8. Suspends campaign until Nov. 4, offers to start being president right now.
9. Sells Alaska to Russia for $700 billion.
10. Pledges to serve only one term. OK, half a term.

http://www.slate.com/id/2200927/

tony hipchest
09-25-2008, 04:02 PM
I guess that is a question better served for Obama's brother rotting away in Africa with no help from him.

.why? did obamas brother cheat on his wife too? :chuckle: i think mccains republican bretheren on capitol hill would much rather see him out there winning the white house as opposed to seeing him on friday. by winning the election he WILL be honoring his commitment to them. same for obama.

theyve kinda taken on a new job now. presidential candidate is a job all in itself and takes alot of devotion, dedication, and work. candidates are hired by their respective parties to run. i choose not to whine about the time they put in.

Preacher
09-25-2008, 04:17 PM
why? did obamas brother cheat on his wife too? :chuckle: i think mccains republican bretheren on capitol hill would much rather see him out there winning the white house as opposed to seeing him on friday. by winning the election he WILL be honoring his commitment to them. same for obama.

theyve kinda taken on a new job now. presidential candidate is a job all in itself and takes alot of devotion, dedication, and work. candidates are hired by their respective parties to run. i choose not to whine about the time they put in.

And I choose not two whine about a candidate who actually shows up to his job, unlike Obama.



We can do this all day Tony... tit for tat on one-liners. The fact of the matter is that you will read something nefarious in McCains choices... whether it be sexism, running and hiding, etc. etc. because you have chosen not to vote for him, which isn't a surprise as you seem to be a mod. leaning left.

I am the same way in opposite as I am a true conservative (which is why I have kissed off the GOP a few years ago) and don't trust Obama based on his political and theological training.

So either we can continue to snipe at each other... or we can engage in deeper conversations of philosophy behind the scenes (which you have called "propaganda" whenever I try and go down that route... of course.. throwing out there McCain's first marriage is fair game right?

MACH1
09-25-2008, 04:38 PM
theyve kinda taken on a new job now. presidential candidate is a job all in itself and takes alot of devotion, dedication, and work. candidates are hired by their respective parties to run. i choose not to whine about the time they put in.

How about obama do the job that he was ELECTED to do by the people. I guess he could always call in his usual vote of present. That way he can still run around yelling change, change, I'm all about change.

HometownGal
09-25-2008, 05:22 PM
looks like mccain's melodramatic, knee-jerk overreaction and grandstanding was all for naught.

what a shame. washington did just fine w/o him swooping in to save the day. :laughing:

so what did we learn? obama is clearly the winner in this one. in a time of crisis, obama will remain calm and steadfast, and mccain will panic and react before thinking rationally.

obamas call out to mccain and proposal to offer america a bipartisan joint statement and a show of solidarity, mustve inspired those on capitol hill to move diligently and quickly. :chuckle:

mccains proposal to cancel everything and rush out to washington proved to be hasty and unneccesary.

he had a hand of 18 and told the dealer "hit me". :nono:

At least J-Mac was willing to try to pitch in which is more than I can say for Obama, who was still out there grandstanding. What a selfish SOB he is - screw trying to help to figure out a solution to the crisis - it's all about "me, me, me".

Tony - I dub thee . . .

Bartony O'Hipchest.

:chuckle::wink02:

tony hipchest
09-25-2008, 06:07 PM
How about obama do the job that he was ELECTED to do by the people. I guess he could always call in his usual vote of present. That way he can still run around yelling change, change, I'm all about change.well, he was ELECTED by the people to run for president. he has a new job now. :noidea:

MACH1
09-25-2008, 06:16 PM
well, he was ELECTED by the people to run for president. he has a new job now. :noidea:

Last time I checked he was still a senator. :noidea:

JPPT1974
09-25-2008, 06:20 PM
Well at least he wants to in order to workout the economic crisis.
Obama ain't doing that.

tony hipchest
09-25-2008, 06:24 PM
At least J-Mac was willing to try to pitch in which is more than I can say for Obama, who was still out there grandstanding. What a selfish SOB he is - screw trying to help to figure out a solution to the crisis - it's all about "me, me, me".
:now c'mon.... i said mccain was grandstanding first (which is so obvious he was). obama was simply pressing on with his campaign. so nany-nany-boo-boo :flap:

as far as mccain trying to pitch in, ive already stated that he wasnt even missed. infact, i would say progress was expidited w/o the distraction of the 2 presidential candidates presence-

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0908/Frank_Republicans_winced_when_McCain_was_mentioned _in_meeting.html?showall

Frank: Republicans "winced" when McCain was mentioned in meeting

[Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) said that "nobody mentioned McCain" during the several-hour-long meeting on the $700 billion market rescue plan, other than Frank and that his Republican colleagues "winced" when he did.

"He’s been irrelevant to the process. He remains to be," said Frank. "I was afraid that his dropping in here, like Andy Kaufman’s Mighty Mouse—'here I am to save the day'—I thought that would slow things down. I didn’t see any sign of our Republican colleagues paying any attention to him whatsoever."

Franks went on. "Nobody mentioned him. The man’s irrelevant to the whole process. No Republican mentioned his name. I’m the only one who raised his name. They winced when I did," he said.

"I don’t think anyone takes that seriously," said Frank of McCain's suggestion that Friday's debate be delayed. "Sen. McCain trying to use the necessity for his presence to reach a deal that we’ve already reached as a reason to duck the debate is unworthy of him. There is absolutely no reason not to go to the debate."

Frank was equally cool about today's meeting with the White House. "The White House isn’t show and tell. We’re going to the White House because the president asked us to go. Nobody thinks at this point that anything useful’s going to happen. But we now have to get things drafted and worked on. The White House meeting is just an interruption in our schedule," he said.

Though he said McCain's presence would be unhelpful, he did say, getting a dig in at McCain's running mate, that there "were times when I was ready to suggest that, when we got to some of the more complicated issues about how do you price these sophisticated instruments, that we ask him to make Sarah Palin available to give us her expertise."


Yfsrg28jE7k

:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny:

revefsreleets
09-25-2008, 06:27 PM
so what did we learn? obama is clearly the winner in this one. in a time of crisis, obama will remain calm and steadfast, and mccain will panic and react before thinking rationally.



You interpreted this from that?

Wow! WOW!

(cough) reach (cough)

Plus this is also very "Dewey Beats Truman" of you...just a tad premature...

http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080925/ap_on_bi_ge/financial_meltdown

Tentative meltdown deal: Bush, McCain, Obama meet

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20080925/capt.cps.nrz25.250908224305.photo00.photo.default-512x325.jpg?x=213&y=135&xc=1&yc=1&wc=410&hc=260&q=100&sig=CEOKcetFZVogJXbPdOkVvw-- (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Stock-Markets-Barack-Obama-members-of-congress-Presidential-candidates-Cabinet-Room/ss/events/bs/081202stock/s:/ap/20080925/ap_on_bi_ge/financial_meltdown/im:/080925/photos_pl_afp/0316aca357e0683bcb0ebb748d811b4f/;_ylt=AtCLFSG0XEv9VsPLSDo9rXRv24cA) AFP – US President George W. Bush (L) makes remarks during a meeting with members of congress including the …

WASHINGTON – President Bush and the two men fighting to succeed him joined forces Thursday at a historic White House meeting on a multibillion-dollar Wall Street bailout plan, aiming to stave off a national economic disaster. Key members of Congress said they had struck a deal earlier in the day, but its future was unclear.
The tentative accord would give the Bush administration just a fraction of the $700 billion it had requested up front, with half that total subject to a congressional veto, Capitol Hill aides said. But nothing appeared final. Amid several signs that conservatives were balking, Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama, the top Republican on the Senate Banking Committee, emerged from the White House and said the announced agreement "is, obviously, no agreement."

MACH1
09-25-2008, 06:29 PM
Frank: Republicans "winced" when McCain was mentioned in meeting


In other word's don't piss of the future boss man. :chuckle:

HometownGal
09-25-2008, 06:48 PM
as far as mccain trying to pitch in, ive already stated that he wasnt even missed. infact, i would say progress was expidited w/o the distraction of the 2 presidential candidates presence-

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0908/Frank_Republicans_winced_when_McCain_was_mentioned _in_meeting.html?showall

Frank: Republicans "winced" when McCain was mentioned in meeting



You're now using a blog to try to back up these ridiculous statements? C'mon Bartony - you can do better than that. :rofl::rofl:

hmmm - that hand looks familiar. :scratchchin:

http://www.crystalinks.com/pinocchio.jpg

tony hipchest
09-25-2008, 06:48 PM
You interpreted this from that?

Wow! WOW!

(cough) reach (cough)

Plus this is also very "Dewey Beats Truman" of you...just a tad premature...

]LOL so you noticed the "chuckle" in my post? :chuckle:

i was pouring it on pretty thick, but the essense of my point still stands.

and i did include the part of the article that the White House was still skeptical. from what i heard last night, the dems only wanna concede $150-200 bil up front. that a large gap to meet in the middle.

Preacher
09-25-2008, 07:15 PM
well, he was ELECTED by the people to run for president. he has a new job now. :noidea:

Nope... he was chosen by democrats...

The elections are in November.

HometownGal
09-25-2008, 07:34 PM
Nope... he was chosen by democrats...

The elections are in November.

Sad isn't it that an unknown do nothing Senator from Illinois who preaches CHANGE when he can't CHANGE his drawers without asking for advice from his nasty wife was the best they could put up. :laughing::rofl:

MACH1
09-25-2008, 08:18 PM
Sad isn't it that an unknown do nothing Senator from Illinois who preaches CHANGE when he can't CHANGE his drawers without asking for advice from his nasty wife was the best they could put up. :laughing::rofl:

Yep...The guy that watch's the other get dressed first then tells them what they did wrong.
The one in the same follower from Illinois. :laughing:

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/images/obama%20puppet.jpg

steelwall
09-25-2008, 08:31 PM
What about the series of town hall debates Obama backed away from....AFTER he said he would debate Mcain anytime?

Race is not a factor for me in this election...heck my wife is Chinese.

As I said perhaps I'm partial to Mcain because I am a vet as well.

As for the Bush-Mcain ties, I think Mcain has shown he is not a Bush clone, as he has went against Bush on several issues.

For me.... I think a leader should be strong willed, stick to his guns. What policies I've seen Obama hold in the begining of his campaign, to me, it seems allmost all have changed to popular opinion. I can't vote for a man like that no matter what race he is.