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Grey
12-01-2005, 12:50 PM
With all the Cowher bashing that's happening right now, I'd just like to post this.

I get really tired of hearing that Cowher can't win big games.

In 13 years as Steelers head coach, he has 8 Division Championships, has gotten to the AFC Championship 5 times, and been to one Super Bowl. That's a lot of success.

Seems to me that in the course of achieving all of that success, there were A LOT of big games won along the way. In the end, 31 teams are losers, and it's pretty tough to win it all, but we will, and Cowher will be there.

There's another big game this week. Cowher's team will be there, and they will win.

HERE WE GO.
Grey

SalukiSteelers
12-01-2005, 01:24 PM
I agree that Cowher takes a lot of heat when the Steelers lose. That's part of the job and it goes with the territory of fielding a competitive team almost every season. But before we go throwing Cowher under the bus, I think it's important to remember that there are millions of fans who would love the opportunity for their teams to "choke" in the big game.

I've never been a Cowher hater though I have questioned some of his decisions. Sometimes it could be argued that he's too predictable. Other times one could say that he takes unnecessary chances. Usually those opinions come after a loss.

Look, the Steelers have the team they have and it appears that changes may be coming down the road. The Bus is running out of gas, the line is getting pushed around, and the passing game has looked, at times, anemic. I'm sure that some new personnel will be coming in the next few years and that could change the complexion of the team.

People may complain that the Steelers have focused on the run too much under Cowher. Fine, that's a valid argument but remember that any time the Steelers have had their greatest success under the coach they've been a run-first team. Remember the season the Steelers were pass happy? They lost to the Titans in the second round, didn't they?

Cowher came in to his job facing the impossible task of replacing a legend. He's taken that task and filled it with heart, class, and humility. Can he win it all? Hell yes! Give the man the team and it will happen. It takes a combination of personnel, game-planning, and luck to win. We came close last year with a really good team but remember that the Patriots have been on a great run. There's no shame in losing to the World Champs

We, as Steelers fans, are demanding -- and rightfully so. This is one of the premier franchises in the NFL and they do things the right way. They represent their city and their fan base admirably and Cowher is the face of the organization.

Usually I'm a win-at-all-costs kind of guy but I have to ask: Would fans like a coach like Barry Switzer to come in and win a title? How about some other carpet bagger? Be critical of our coach. It's your right as a fan, and in some cases it's dead on, but remember that Cowher is the guy who knows this team best. He knows their abilities and he knows where they have problems.

Who do you think wants to win "one for the thumb more?" The organization and Cowher, who have put in unknown hours and made numerous sacrifices to bring the city and the fans a ring? Or maybe it's the guys like us who sit around and watch the team, read the papers, and post long-winded responses like this in forums? I'm going to go with the Coach, the team, and the organization and when it happens we can look back on bad stretches like the on the team is in now and realize that it makes winning sweeter because everybody stuck together and believed in each other.

I root for the uniform first but it's good to remember that men fill those Black and Gold jerseys. It sounds sappy but so what. Who's not gonna cry when the Steelers win it all?

Steel - X
12-01-2005, 01:31 PM
Has he won a SuperBowl? Then he has not done enough.

fergusonat
12-01-2005, 01:46 PM
Awesome post, SalukiSteelers...I feel the same exact way. Cowher makes some dumb moves, but if I could choose any coach to be running out on the field victoriously when the Steelers do win the Super Bowl, I want it to be Cowher...just to make all those stupid mistakes worth it for him! I don't know about you guys, but if Cowher ever left the Steelers, I'd miss his hilarious expressions and fits of rage after each play...sometimes when the Steelers are losing badly, that's my only source of entertainment!

This past Monday, Cowher screwed the team pretty badly, yes. It's always easier to see his faults. But honestly, do you think the Steelers would have evolved the way it did if Cowher had not been leading?

Rush58
12-01-2005, 02:08 PM
Cowher's philosophy can win regular season games, no doubt. However, his one-dimensional philosophy of "smashmouth" football and good defense keeps every team in the game and thus, keeps us from winning Super Bowls instead of division titles.

pitt
12-01-2005, 02:28 PM
Sometimes the play calling drives me crazy, but over all I think the coach has done a good job.

Koopa
12-01-2005, 04:03 PM
With all the Cowher bashing that's happening right now, I'd just like to post this.

I get really tired of hearing that Cowher can't win big games.

In 13 years as Steelers head coach, he has 8 Division Championships, has gotten to the AFC Championship 5 times, and been to one Super Bowl. That's a lot of success.

Seems to me that in the course of achieving all of that success, there were A LOT of big games won along the way. In the end, 31 teams are losers, and it's pretty tough to win it all, but we will, and Cowher will be there.

There's another big game this week. Cowher's team will be there, and they will win.

HERE WE GO.
Grey

seems like you are satisfied with absoulty nothing, yeah it's fine a few times to win divisions and then go to the promise land once but he has nothing to show for his great regular season record...........sure he can win big regular season games but what's his record in those five AFC championship games? and what's his record in that one superbowl? i'm tired of getting my hopes up year after year after year after year....... hopefully this is the year he can lift that monkey off his back, but he has to change, he is to damn predictable that's why teams don't seem to fear us in the playoffs

Suitanim
12-01-2005, 04:46 PM
Here's a list of current coaches who have won Super Bowl's:
Bellichick
Gruden
Billick
Vermeil
Shanahan
Holmgren
Gibbs
Parcells

Personally, I think Cowher is a better coach than Gruden, Billick, and Holmgren. That leaves 5 coaches who have won Super Bowls in the NFL. Vermeil is retiring, I think Parcells has lost his magic, the game may have passed Gibbs by, and Shanahan and Bellichick aren't going anywhere. I also think when you talk about how the Rooney's want to approach the game, only Gibbs, Bellichick and Holmgren could ever fit their system, and, again, the Gibbs experiment may be a failure, and Cowher is a better coach than Holmgren (Put Favre on our 95-2004 teams and I bet we win at least 2, if not more, Lombardy trophies)

My favorite question, as always, for Cowher bashers is, who do we replace him with?


It's too easy to blame the coach. When we took almost the exact same team that was 6-10 in 2003 and went 15-1 with it in 2004, who do you think deserves most of the credit for that? The fact of the matter is, Cowher consistently OVERACHIEVES with the talent he has.

Tim
12-01-2005, 05:14 PM
I'm generally a Cowher supporter, but it seems like lately I know every play before it happens. Unless we're running some gag play, like a Bettis option pass, we do the same stuff over and over. Our running plays are worthless when opponents jam 8 guys on the line. Our pass plays are tentative and seem telegraphed. We haven't moved Ben out of the pocket much, so when he's out he's usually scrambling.

Sure, it's up to the players to execute and "beat" the other team. But when everyone knows that with Haynes standing to the right of whoever is QB, that it's going to be a draw 99.9% of the time, or that when Bettis is in the game, 99.9% of the time, it's an off-tackle run or straight up the gut, how in the world can you execute well enough to succeed?

Cowher needs to start changing things up or at 48 years old, we're going to be talking about how the game has passed him by. And that's sad seeing as how ol' JoePa is nearly 80 and has proven this year that he still can make the necessary changes required to win big games.

SalukiSteelers
12-01-2005, 05:20 PM
My last post was pretty sappy, and yes it sucks to finish second, third, or fourth all the time, but shouldn't players be expected to make plays? Bellichik, a man viewed by many to be a coaching genius, was a moron in Cleveland because his players sucked.

Now before you think I'm saying that the Steeers players suck compose your self. No way I'm not saying that but I am saying that I don't know how many Steelers have had all that great of seasons, so far.

Polamalu has played well this season, Ward has given his typical solid effort, and...um, well...who else has given a great effort? Okay, Miller is having a good rookie season.

Sure, coaching plays a part in it, no denying that, but who besides those guys has made people step up and take note? Surely not the backs or the line and that's the Steelers identity.

Yeah, it'd be great if Pittsburgh could find a way to make their offense more explosive but who provides the dynamite? Willie Parker? Randle El? I don't really think so.

Hey, if the Steelers start sliding for a couple seasons then maybe the organization looks at the coach and decides that there is somebody out there who could make the difference. I gotta go with Suit on this one.

One thing that does piss me off about Cowher, though, is that I thought he was a special teams guy in Cleveland and it makes me wonder why Pittsburgh's ST constantly hurt the team.

XxKnightxX
12-01-2005, 05:31 PM
Here's a list of current coaches who have won Super Bowl's:
Bellichick
Gruden
Billick
Vermeil
Shanahan
Holmgren
Gibbs
Parcells

Personally, I think Cowher is a better coach than Gruden, Billick, and Holmgren. That leaves 5 coaches who have won Super Bowls in the NFL. Vermeil is retiring, I think Parcells has lost his magic, the game may have passed Gibbs by, and Shanahan and Bellichick aren't going anywhere. I also think when you talk about how the Rooney's want to approach the game, only Gibbs, Bellichick and Holmgren could ever fit their system, and, again, the Gibbs experiment may be a failure, and Cowher is a better coach than Holmgren (Put Favre on our 95-2004 teams and I bet we win at least 2, if not more, Lombardy trophies)

My favorite question, as always, for Cowher bashers is, who do we replace him with?


It's too easy to blame the coach. When we took almost the exact same team that was 6-10 in 2003 and went 15-1 with it in 2004, who do you think deserves most of the credit for that? The fact of the matter is, Cowher consistently OVERACHIEVES with the talent he has.




Also people need to keep in mind that we need to appreciate that we have a consistent franchise at front office and coaches. Other teams lack the consistency of having a good coaching squad while we had the privilege of being amongst the most steady franchises in history. Where else do you see that a franchise has had only 2 coaches in the past 36 years??

Suitanim
12-01-2005, 05:43 PM
Just to add a couple things, as far as Bellichick, one thing that he did that made him a better coach (and more like a Rooney/Steeler type guy) was he stopped just looking at just empirical data, like guys combine numbers and stats and stuff, and started judging players by film, and effort and drive. That's the difference (Well,at least one of them) between the Browns years and the Pats years.

As far as ST's, Cowher used to focus on it a lot more personally...I guess he probably learned pretty quickly that it's impossible as a HC to spend an inordinate amount of time with just one facet of coaching.

Also, you hear a lot about Cowher not being able to make adjustments...in fact, one of Cowher's strengths always was making adjustments. We almost adjusted our way into a 5th ring in '95 if it wasn't for a couple.......alright, I won't go there again.

Cowher decided after the '03 season that this team was going back to it's roots, to be a run first, pass second team. What people fail to comprehend is that a team like that cannot just evolve at halftime into a pass-happy offense. Running teams live and die by the run, and cannot overcome big deficits. That's where I place blame on Cowher for the Colts game. He took two chances and they cost us the game. If we would have just run the clock out at the end of the 1st half, we'd have had a chance to regroup and come out down 13-7, instead, we passed, it was picked and we gave up an easy 3. Then the onsides kick. Cowher said, and he was right, had we executed properly, that play would have worked. But the players didn't, and I still blame Cowher. By giving them the ball and a MASSIVE amount of momentum that we were trying to steal, we gave them an easy 6 and the game was over at 23-7. Had we maintained that 13-7 deficit, we might have had a chance.

When we achieve balance on offense, have a quality NFL starting QB (Which we are damned close to having), and maintain a top 5 defense, Cowher will win a championship, if not more than one...but we aren't quite there yet.

Wow, that was pretty long-winded, wasn't it?

Atlanta Dan
12-01-2005, 06:15 PM
Cowher is a good coach, but as Bill Simmons on espn.com observed several weeks ago, his teams play at the same level and do not take it up to the next level in the playoffs.

The home field AFC losses have been disappointing, including horrible upsets to 1994 San Diego and 2001 New England. However, I do not recall a Cowher team ever upsetting another team in the playoffs.

Chuck Noll, for all the talent he had, scored several road playoff upsets in his career (1974Oakland, 1984 Denver, 1989 Houston) and, as far as I can recall, never suffered a true playoff upset in his career (1982 San Diego might come close). Winning playoff games you are not supposed to win is one measure of a well coached team to me.

Unfortunately, if a lot goes right one year (1997 and 2004), it often seems the next year reverts to a lower level (1998 and 2005). That having been said, I cannot see anyone on the market who is better than Cowher.

tony hipchest
12-01-2005, 06:29 PM
shanahan and holmgren havent won a playoff game without farve or elway. in that time cowher has won them with a rookie qb, maddox, and kordell. if cowher had a farve-hof, elway-hof or marino-hof in his career, people would talk about him as a sure fire hall of famer, with at least 3 super bowl wins.

cowher has adjusted well to losing more coaches who go onto head coaching jobs than any other head coach out there today. sure b. walsh had alot too but he also had j. montana-hof. cowher also lost plenty of defensive free agents not to mention the only qb to get him to the sb and all the good wr from that year and still managed to put out #1 defenses and top of the league running games. while he probably woulda rather had urlacher, he drafted p. burress. t. edwards was a high 1st rounder. he knows when to address the teams needs. we finally drafted a qb in the 1st round when everyone said we needed a cb or rb. cowher works well with mgmt. and ownership to make all these things happen.

cowher has become the face of the steelers. the rooneys arent stupid. cowher, his consistency, his professionallism and capabilities and potential to win it all are good for business. keeps fans interested, sells jerseys, keeps you on mnf 3 nights a year. hell i live in new mexico and theres been only 4 steeler games not on local stations. the rooneys kept noll around till '89, 10 years after going to a sb. and then he wasnt even fired he retired. i wouldnt trade cowher for a billick, shannahan, or gruden (although gruden does seem like he would be a perfect steeler).

Suitanim
12-01-2005, 06:42 PM
And, again, I contend that the one common denominator of ALL Cowher teams, and the thing that excuses him from being tarred and feathered is QB. O'Donnell was the closest thing we ever had to a competent QB, and he had the bad fortune of throwing all his INT's in the Super Bowl. I'd still say Neil was a better QB than either Trent Dilfer or Doug Williams, but one game makes all the difference, I guess.

I'll say something now that's going to be close to blasphemy, but it's true. If Chuck Noll had to use the crap QB's that Cowher has had, he'd have 1 Super Bowl title, not 4.

Now we have Ben, and he has all the tools. No excuses. We need to win Super Bowls in the immediate future...
(EDIT)

Looks like me and Tony were on the same wavelength here...

Ambridge
12-01-2005, 06:44 PM
I personally have just about had it with Cowher.
13 seasons and getting ready to finish the 14th and what has he got to show for it?.....Eight division titles which is a nice accomplishment but that easily gets drowned out by the 4 AFCC Game losses and the one loss in his lone Super Bowl appearance.

Cowher supporters that argue:(and I used to be one of them that felt this way) "Hey look at all of the success that he's brought the franchise over the years regardless of his record in the playoffs.....and that he's keeping the Steelers competitive........and the classic who else could be brought in to be the head coach?? I think are stuck for being satisfied with the "Close but no cigar mentality".

I really didn't start to get down on Cowher until the '01 AFCC game against the Pats and it's been going downhill ever since. He had the perfect set-up to redeem himself last year and finally deliver another Super Bowl appearance to the Steeler faithful but all we got was another slap in the face with another poorly played game.
A championship game loss hurts almost as bad as a 6-10 season.

This year Cowher has been way too predictable and pigheaded and these same traits have the Steelers teetering on the edge of the cliff. If the Steelers miss the playoffs this season I hope Dan Rooney finally wakes up and smells the coffee and holds Cowher to some degree of accountability and ponders the thought of hiring another headcoach.

Cape Cod Steel Head
12-01-2005, 06:51 PM
Nice posts Suit ,and I couldn't agree more. There is no one out there that could replace him. Now lets put this topic to bed until the season is over, hopefully on 02 /05/06.

Suitanim
12-01-2005, 06:57 PM
Well, Ambridge is upset, and he has every right to be...to be honest, this topic won't, and can't ever be put to rest until Cowher wins a Super Bowl.

I staked my claim. He has a QB who can play in the NFL now. Give him 2 more years and we'll see.

John, '01 pissed me off, too, but Kordell was what he had to work with...winging INT's into the endzone is okay if you are a rookie, but Kordell wasn't. Give Ben a year or two.

tony hipchest
12-01-2005, 06:57 PM
I'll say something now that's going to be close to blasphemy, but it's true. If Chuck Noll had to use the crap QB's that Cowher has had, he'd have 1 Super Bowl title, not 4.

(EDIT)

Looks like me and Tony were on the same wavelength here...

for sure. hell the greatest team of all time (76 steelers) missed the sb when terry bradshaw and franco harris were knocked out of the playoffs. terry was the true essense of quarterback and wouldve laughed if asked to run a dink and dunk or west coast offense. (i think he still holds the national record, in track and field, for javelin throw for high schoolers, a know he broke it back then, if he doesnt still hold it.)

people never mention the 3 afc champ games c. noll lost to d. schula, and j. madden. noll lost too. every coach is that much better with a hof qb

BlitzburghRockCity
12-01-2005, 07:03 PM
Cowher is no doubt one of the most successful coaches in NFL history, and we've had the talent to get to the big dance on more than 1 occasion during our playoff runs..so it comes back to coaches and gameplanning. yes there were times when players didnt execute there is no doubt.. turnovers, missed opportunities..but when it comes down it, Cowher will be looked down upon by his peers if he doesnt win atleast 1 SB ring and very soon.

He is stubborn and sticks to his guns when it comes to his type of football...but the problem is alot of other coaches play their type of football too but they gameplan against their opponent to exploit them...not just play our game and hope we come out on top.

The works in the regular season and usually early in the playoffs, but not when ur deep into the playoffs.

Our defense generally always shows up, regular season, post season, they play tough and give our offense a chance..

but our offense never does anythign in the postseason, and THAT comes back on the coach.

Ambridge
12-01-2005, 07:10 PM
Well, Ambridge is upset, and he has every right to be...to be honest, this topic won't, and can't ever be put to rest until Cowher wins a Super Bowl.

I staked my claim. He has a QB who can play in the NFL now. Give him 2 more years and we'll see.

John, '01 pissed me off, too, but Kordell was what he had to work with...winging INT's into the endzone is okay if you are a rookie, but Kordell wasn't. Give Ben a year or two.

I know.....I know!
The only thing that worries me is that Cowher tries to stifle Ben's abilities with too much of the run first-run always mentality.

Suitanim
12-01-2005, 07:12 PM
Seems to many people read that "Cold Hard Facts" nonsense and bought into it. The fact that Cowher plays his style of football, come Hell or high water is what will win him championships, not what has lost them. Look at our losses in playoffs and the Super Bowl. Look at the scores. Look at the Turnover's. Eliminate errors, and this team win's a couple Super Bowl's along the way. But we, as Steelers fans, expect perfection, and we shouldn't, not when we don't have great players playing like we used to.

Agian, I say the opposite of what most people are saying. Instead of bashing Cowher for losing big games, I say commend him for even making it there with limited talent. You can cover up lack of talent even as high as College football by good coaching, but you can't in the NFL.

He has the talent now. Hell, we just started playing the salary cap game that the 49ers did in the 80's (When they won their SB's) and and the Cowboys did in the 90's (When they won a couple of theirs). Couple more years.

Cape Cod Steel Head
12-01-2005, 07:14 PM
Well then maybe those who are no longer satisfied with Bill and his performance should start a FireBillCowher.com website.

Suitanim
12-01-2005, 07:17 PM
You mean like this one?

http://www.petitiononline.com/BillCowh/petition.html

BlitzburghRockCity
12-01-2005, 07:18 PM
I know.....I know!
The only thing that worries me is that Cowher tries to stifle Ben's abilities with too much of the run first-run always mentality.

This has been going on for how long now, we should be used to it. But we're not and it pisses me off. I know Ben needs a solid running game and we as a team need that..but also need to have a QB who has some experience at airing it out putting this team on his shoulders and carrying us to a victory when the running game sputters.. and BC relies so much on the running game that when if fails , its oh shit lets hurry up and try and throw the ball all the time. You can just pull that out of your ass, you have to be proficient at both, and Ben can easily do it..the guy is awesome, but he is reigned in.

Im not saying BC will not win us a championship, Im pray every year that he does..but every time we get so close we fold up on offense. Not defense, but Offense. And coming froma defensive minded coach, this shouldnt be a surprise but the way that Bill keeps the offense so in control its drives me nuts.

tony hipchest
12-01-2005, 08:04 PM
afc vs. sandiego- odonnel throws incomplete to foster in the end zone
afc vs. denver- kordell throws 3 int. one into the endzone on 2nd and one when bettis drove the steelers down the field
afc vs patriots- kordell throws another 3 int in what was a close game
sb vs dallas- odonnel throws 2 untimely int when the steelers are effectively moving the ball.

its not cowhers stubborness of sticking with the running game that has caused these to happen. actually its the opposite. trying to open it up with the passing game. granted in 2001 jerome was hurt and there pretty much no running game.

maybe some of THOSE games couldve been won if cowher just STUCK with the running game.

StillerPaul
12-01-2005, 10:39 PM
With all the Cowher bashing that's happening right now, I'd just like to post this.

I get really tired of hearing that Cowher can't win big games.

In 13 years as Steelers head coach, he has 8 Division Championships, has gotten to the AFC Championship 5 times, and been to one Super Bowl. That's a lot of success.

Seems to me that in the course of achieving all of that success, there were A LOT of big games won along the way. In the end, 31 teams are losers, and it's pretty tough to win it all, but we will, and Cowher will be there.

There's another big game this week. Cowher's team will be there, and they will win.

HERE WE GO.
Grey

Excellent post! I think alot of us get frustrated and vent at times. I know thats the case with me. I'm gettin' myself geared up for the bungles as well!

HERE WE GO STEELERS!

Rush58
12-01-2005, 11:40 PM
Now we have Ben, and he has all the tools. No excuses. We need to win Super Bowls in the immediate future...


Sure Ben has the tools, but will he get a chance to develop them? I'm not into pretending through the regular season with wins over crappy teams and then finding out in the postseason, usually the championship game under Cowher, that we are still a one-dimensional offense.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
12-02-2005, 12:14 AM
Can someone name a coach that they would like to see replace Cowher....
I cant think of any right now...
I think cowher fits in good with our system and the players respect him

BlitzburghRockCity
12-02-2005, 12:17 AM
Belicheck is a defensive genious, there is no doubt..he fashions that defense every week to best attack the offense w/ schemes and designs. Lebeau does the same thing.. No problems there..

But belicheck was open to his offensive coaches game plan and ideas and didnt stick just 1 way to win. Just because we actually game plan for a team doesnt mean we lose our identity. Just once I really wanna see something designed to go after a teams weakness or atleast their weakest link. It seems to never happen and the offense is never prepared for the strong run in the post season. to me that comes back on the coaches.

I know things happen w/ players, but comon, EVERY time.

Ive always been a BC supporter in a big way, but maybe Im just tired of the same old result in the postseason and not getting over the hump.

We have alot to be thankful for as Steeler fans, ALOT of success over the last 13 years, ALOT. More than most.. but sooner or later we just gotta get over this hump, dont we ??

steeler47
12-02-2005, 07:36 AM
What is his SB and AFCC game's(AT HOME ) rec........


Those are the big games.

Rotorhead
12-02-2005, 01:15 PM
If you recall we tried to open up the offense with the passing game, and we went 6-10. The problem with just all the sudden opening up the passing game is that our team is built to run, not pass. It would take at least 2 years to retool the entire team to open up the passing game and be a consistant winner. If we has 2 losing seasons in a row you all would be absolutely nutz crazy to fire Cowher cause he dropped the running game that was taking us to the playoffs so often. The only reason Shanahan, or any of those coaches) won those Superbowls is because the tools they had for those seasons. We have always been missing just one thing each run, a QB. Last year was close but Ben was just to green. Give it another year or 2 with playoff runs and I say we get a ring or several. We now have a QB that can win us games, not just manage them, we will always have a top 10 Def and it may take a year or 2 to retool the line and get a good RB. We just need to keep Heath and Ward and suppliment a decent speedy young second receiver.

clevestinks
12-02-2005, 05:51 PM
A proffesional NFL head coach, is either a hero or a bust. Fans are brutal. most teams would die to have Cowhers record and playoff apperances. We are a little spoiled to be fans of a good team year after year. Cowher keeps us out of the basement and gives us hope more often that not.

I vote keep Cowher!

BlitzburghRockCity
12-02-2005, 08:06 PM
Cleve is right and I eluded to it before. WE are truely blessed to be Steeler fans, there is no doubt about it.

Our team has evolved w/ different players over the years and more talent all the time..but BC will probably never waiver in his coaching style..he did that once a few years back w/ Tommy gun and it got us no where. Just find a happy medium.

Hell I dont know, I just wanna win a championship so bad I can taste it.