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Leftoverhard
10-03-2008, 08:45 PM
Anyone see it yet? I'm not a huge fan of Bill Maher but......

Mosca
10-03-2008, 09:23 PM
It's not right for me. I'm atheist, but I take no joy in poking at anyone.

Leftoverhard
10-03-2008, 10:47 PM
It's not right for me. I'm atheist, but I take no joy in poking at anyone.

I know what you mean but this movie isn't just poking at anyone - it's evenly poking at everyone.

fansince'76
10-03-2008, 10:51 PM
Won't be seeing it - can't stand Bill Maher.

augustashark
10-04-2008, 12:37 AM
I know what you mean but this movie isn't just poking at anyone - it's evenly poking at everyone.

yea, everyone who has some sort of faith in a God. The only one he does not poke at is the atheists. Would spend on cent to see this movie the same with all of Michael Moores skits.

MACH1
10-04-2008, 12:58 AM
Can't stand the guy.

Preacher
10-04-2008, 02:47 AM
yea, everyone who has some sort of faith in a God. The only one he does not poke at is the atheists. Would spend on cent to see this movie the same with all of Michael Moores skits.


Which shows his arrogance and condescension.

TSDMedic
10-04-2008, 06:36 AM
I refuse to see it......I can't stand him or Michael Moore.

GBMelBlount
10-04-2008, 08:04 AM
Has Mayer been signed as an anchor by any of the major news networks yet?...Wouldn't surprise me. Perhaps he could be put under the fair and balanced tutelage of the likes of Dan Rather to perfect his objectivity.... :rolleyes:

Mosca
10-04-2008, 08:10 AM
yea, everyone who has some sort of faith in a God. The only one he does not poke at is the atheists. Would spend on cent to see this movie the same with all of Michael Moores skits.

Yeah. I don't understand. It's fine to not believe, but there's no reason to make a movie poking fun at believers. This one belongs right next to that Ben Stein fiasco.

Leftoverhard
10-04-2008, 09:54 AM
I saw it last night with 2 friends. One grew up Mennonite, the other Baptist and me - an Athiest but when I was young, my dad made it a point to take us to every church, synagogue, mosque, chapel, cathedral, stadiums filled with chanting, stupa, you name it.

The way I see this movie is educational - a 2 hour way of getting a little religious perspective. Of course there are other ways of doing it but I thought it was hilarious. I thought at least one of my friends' would be offended but right when the movie began, it became clear to me that Maher was even poking fun at himself. I've always thought Maher was snarky and smug too but for some reason (in my opinion) his personality works in this context.
I went to Catholic School, I describe myself as Atheist to suit other people's need for a label. I like to say non-religious but that doesn't really work either.
I know most people won't see it on principle and I can understand not wanting to be offended but if you have even an inkling of interest - it's worth the watch.

The Duke
10-04-2008, 11:52 AM
It's not right for me. I'm atheist, but I take no joy in poking at anyone.

same here. and hey, I enjoy some religion fun at times , but his is just not my style

TheWarDen86
10-04-2008, 12:12 PM
Won't be seeing it - can't stand Bill Maher.

Ditto - He's a waste of skin IMO. I wish Ted Nugent would have strangled him when he had the chance.

Godfather
10-04-2008, 12:54 PM
The promos and his talk show tour indicate that he's ridiculing people of faith. It's one thing to poke fun but he's a condescending, self-righteous douche. Basically a fundie athiest.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-04-2008, 04:47 PM
It's not right for me. I'm atheist, but I take no joy in poking at anyone.

You have to wonder about the mentality behind anyone who finds humor in denegrating someones religious beliefs.

Bill Maher and Keith Olbermann are two of a kind....noone finds them as funny as ....well...they do.

revefsreleets
10-04-2008, 05:52 PM
Hate Maher, but will see it. His premise is sound, but I want to see how far his personal anti-Catholic vendetta takes him off-task.

ALL religions deserve to be held accountable, but I know without even seeing this film that he'll spend 70% of his time ripping Catholicism. The Catholic Church has done some awful, awful, awful things, but almost every other faith is just as culpable of perpetrating great evils on humanity in Gods name...I just wish he'd use this platform to call them all out equally, instead of being a petty jackass.

Preacher
10-04-2008, 06:03 PM
Hate Maher, but will see it. His premise is sound, but I want to see how far his personal anti-Catholic vendetta takes him off-task.

ALL religions deserve to be held accountable, but I know without even seeing this film that he'll spend 70% of his time ripping Catholicism. The Catholic Church has done some awful, awful, awful things, but almost every other faith is just as culpable of perpetrating great evils on humanity in Gods name...I just wish he'd use this platform to call them all out equally, instead of being a petty jackass.

I agree... though athiesm is just as culpable... 20 million serfs in Russia, cleansing of "undesirables" in both U.S.S.R. and China...

in the end, any and every system becomes a refuge for those who wish to abuse it to personal gains.

steelwall
10-04-2008, 06:03 PM
There is no doubt to me God exists. Many things have happened in my life that go beyond scientific, or rational explination.

I detest BM I'll never see his movie or any other show he's in for that matter.

revefsreleets
10-04-2008, 06:09 PM
I'm not an atheist. I believe in God...but a much more accepting and merciful God than many here...

Atheists are fine...as long as they just STFU about it already! They make the Jehovah Witnesses seem taciturn in comparison...

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-04-2008, 06:21 PM
This , of course, is the same Bill Maher who called our Military "cowardly"...and our soldiers "illiterate low-lying fruit"

He also argued with a guest who called the terrorists who flew into the Twin Towers cowards...saying "We have been the cowards.... lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. Now That's cowardly."

Maher was also one of the notable idiots who questioned whether or not Palin's Down syndrome infant is actually Bristol's first child.

So ...yea..I wish all of you wouldnt see the movie and put money into the pockets of this a-hole....but to each his own.

Preacher
10-04-2008, 06:24 PM
I'm not an atheist. I believe in God...but a much more accepting and merciful God than many here...

Atheists are fine...as long as they just STFU about it already! They make the Jehovah Witnesses seem taciturn in comparison...

:rofl:

Their called evangelical atheists.

revefsreleets
10-04-2008, 06:33 PM
This , of course, is the same Bill Maher who called our Military "cowardly"...and our soldiers "illiterate low-lying fruit"

He also argued with a guest who called the terrorists who flew into the Twin Towers cowards...saying "We have been the cowards.... lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. Now That's cowardly."

So ...yea..I wish all of you wouldnt see the movie and put money into the pockets of this a-hole....but to each his own.

It'll be a $5 weekday matinee for me...and I'll take far more than that $5 out of Maher's ass by ripping him up here and elsewhere. He's a smug and unfunny pompous jackass...but he recruited Borat's director, and, as I said before, this IS a solid premise. I just hope it's more Mel Brooks and less Michael Moore, more good natured and even-handed than hateful and spiteful.

I'm sick to my eye-teeth with all the knee-jerk straight up polictical hate posts and commentary.

revefsreleets
10-04-2008, 06:34 PM
:rofl:

Their called evangelical atheists.
That's not what I call them...

Mosca
10-04-2008, 06:34 PM
I agree... though athiesm is just as culpable... 20 million serfs in Russia, cleansing of "undesirables" in both U.S.S.R. and China...

in the end, any and every system becomes a refuge for those who wish to abuse it to personal gains.


I'm going to respectfully disagree, only quoting you but including rev's prior post.

PEOPLE have done some awful things. They have used religion and atheism as tools to do them.

Now, that isn't as much a free pass for religion as someone might think; because if religion was truly good, then how could it be usurped so?

But by the same token, it robs atheism of the argument that religion is the cause of those evils... because in the absence of religion, the evil still existed.

Rev, the only reason that most of the evils of Christianity were perpetrated by Catholicism is that Catholicism had a 1500 year head start. Give the Protestants some time, they'll catch up.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-04-2008, 06:38 PM
.... if religion was truly good, then how could it be usurped so?



please clarify...usurped by whom?

revefsreleets
10-04-2008, 06:39 PM
I'm going to respectfully disagree, only quoting you but including rev's prior post.

PEOPLE have done some awful things. They have used religion and atheism as tools to do them.

Now, that isn't as much a free pass for religion as someone might think; because if religion was truly good, then how could it be usurped so?

But by the same token, it robs atheism of the argument that religion is the cause of those evils... because in the absence of religion, the evil still existed.

Rev, the only reason that most of the evils of Christianity were perpetrated by Catholicism is that Catholicism had a 1500 year head start. Give the Protestants some time, they'll catch up.

Atheism as a religion is just as awful. People killing other people over ridiculous unknowns...it's retarded. At least animals have a reason that makes sense...

Preacher
10-04-2008, 06:47 PM
I'm going to respectfully disagree, only quoting you but including rev's prior post.

PEOPLE have done some awful things. They have used religion and atheism as tools to do them.

Now, that isn't as much a free pass for religion as someone might think; because if religion was truly good, then how could it be usurped so?

But by the same token, it robs atheism of the argument that religion is the cause of those evils... because in the absence of religion, the evil still existed.

Rev, the only reason that most of the evils of Christianity were perpetrated by Catholicism is that Catholicism had a 1500 year head start. Give the Protestants some time, they'll catch up.

Mosca...

I understand what you are saying... however, there is one common element between all the religions, and that is humanity. The wretchedness of some humans should not be used as an a priori argument against religion.

Furthermore, athiesm should not get a pass either, but should be treated just as another system of thought.

Mosca
10-04-2008, 07:15 PM
Atheists are humans, too, Preacher. Look at me. I'm not wearing horns.

And that was my point; that humans use religion. In the absence of religion, they will use something else. Usurped by humans doing evil, LLT.

I'm not going to retread the subject of belief versus non-belief. I've stated my position, you believers have stated yours, and it's done. May we all live in peace.

Preacher
10-04-2008, 07:48 PM
Atheists are humans, too, Preacher. Look at me. I'm not wearing horns.

And that was my point; that humans use religion. In the absence of religion, they will use something else. Usurped by humans doing evil, LLT.

I'm not going to retread the subject of belief versus non-belief. I've stated my position, you believers have stated yours, and it's done. May we all live in peace.

Mosca....

actually, I think we are saying the same thing...

That regardless of what we believe, there will be those that bastardize it for their own agenda and the furtherance of their own goals.

If that was what you were saying... then we are on the exact same page.

Leftoverhard
10-04-2008, 07:49 PM
Furthermore, athiesm should not get a pass either, but should be treated just as another system of thought.


Preacher - you clearly know much more about religion than I do but when I say I'm atheist it's only because I don't know how else to describe myself (on the subject of religion, higher power, God, etc) other than simply human. Because to me, it seems (and please remember this is just my point of view) that it would be like making a label for someone who doesn't like peanut butter. There is no label to describe that person.

I'm not looking for a pass at all. But if I'm not involved, i.e. I-have-no-religious-dogma - I don't see where I fit in to a "system of thought." I guess you could say I believe in science and things that I see and make sense rationally. So, that is a system of thought. Hmm. I'm figuring this out as I go.

I'm not anti-religion. I understand why people have faith in things that aren't scientifically proven. The problem I have is with the judgement and righteousness that can entail it. If someone thinks that I'm going to that awful hot place when I die, I don't care - but when people are persecuted for it, that's another story. And I have to admit, it pisses me off on the rare occasion someone has decided to infer that to my face (Potter's House anyone?)

Of course I know that there are many other motivations besides religious differences that cause war, strife and persecution but I'm talking about religion here because that's the one that concerns me right now - it seems like we are looking at a man-made end times scenario. The whole "with us or against us" mantra of our current administration, the war torn middle east and terrorism - it is without a doubt religiously driven(although I have a feeling someone is going to vehemently disagree with me).

I don't really know where I'm going with this but I feel that when it comes to religion, I don't want to be labeled. Maybe I'm wrong and need to be labeled because I'm involved in a conversation about it. Tell me.

Preacher
10-04-2008, 08:09 PM
Preacher - you clearly know much more about religion than I do but when I say I'm atheist it's only because I don't know how else to describe myself (on the subject of religion, higher power, God, etc) other than simply human. Because to me, it seems (and please remember this is just my point of view) that it would be like making a label for someone who doesn't like peanut butter. There is no label to describe that person.

I'm not looking for a pass at all. But if I'm not involved, i.e. I-have-no-religious-dogma - I don't see where I fit in to a "system of thought." I guess you could say I believe in science and things that I see and make sense rationally. So, that is a system of thought. Hmm. I'm figuring this out as I go.

I'm not anti-religion. I understand why people have faith in things that aren't scientifically proven. The problem I have is with the judgement and righteousness that can entail it. If someone thinks that I'm going to that awful hot place when I die, I don't care - but when people are persecuted for it, that's another story. And I have to admit, it pisses me off on the rare occasion someone has decided to infer that to my face (Potter's House anyone?)

Of course I know that there are many other motivations besides religious differences that cause war, strife and persecution but I'm talking about religion here because that's the one that concerns me right now - it seems like we are looking at a man-made end times scenario. The whole "with us or against us" mantra of our current administration, the war torn middle east and terrorism - it is without a doubt religiously driven(although I have a feeling someone is going to vehemently disagree with me).

I don't really know where I'm going with this but I feel that when it comes to religion, I don't want to be labeled. Maybe I'm wrong and need to be labeled because I'm involved in a conversation about it. Tell me.

Some good questions here.

It isn't about labeling... rather, it is about identifying the foundations of your system of thought, sharpening them, and then applying them in new scenarios to stretch them in new directions and see if they are still applicable. It is a journey that we all should be on.

What it sounds like to me, is that you hold to a philosophy of atheism, that is, there is no overarching deity which puts forth a right and wrong and thus, there is no metanarrative which is set by a God. Therefore, a philosophy is built based on the philosophy of evolution (which is the philosophy of Hegel set upon oberservation... evolution ITSELF CAN NOT BE SCIENTIFIC, but a philosophy built upon scientific observation). That philosphy is titled scientific athiesm... though it is varied to a much greater degree than one can imagine. Thus, no one can "pigeon hole" an athiest.

Mosca for instance, probably has very different thoughts and even some strongly held ethics which differ from you, and vice-versa. All three of us probably have some very similar held ethics and beliefs as well.

Leftoverhard
10-04-2008, 09:02 PM
Preacher - Your answer gets much respect from this atheist, thank you. My hope (and in some ways, my faith) is that the human race can learn to pay much more attention to our similarities and healthily respect our differences so that we can coexist. It would be nice. Of course that ends up sounding like a hippy bumper sticker but I stick to it. :hatsoff:

cubanstogie
10-04-2008, 09:09 PM
Preacher - Your answer gets much respect from this atheist, thank you. My hope (and in some ways, my faith) is that the human race can learn to pay much more attention to our similarities and healthily respect our differences so that we can coexist. It would be nice. Of course that ends up sounding like a hippy bumper sticker but I stick to it. :hatsoff:

I don't think many christians would have problems with atheists if they didn't make a fuss about saying pledge of allegiance in school, or trying to take christmas out of the vocabulary, as well as manger scenes in towns across USA. It is the extremists, and I realize this works both ways, who ruin it for the average.

Preacher
10-04-2008, 09:21 PM
Preacher - Your answer gets much respect from this atheist, thank you. My hope (and in some ways, my faith) is that the human race can learn to pay much more attention to our similarities and healthily respect our differences so that we can coexist. It would be nice. Of course that ends up sounding like a hippy bumper sticker but I stick to it. :hatsoff:

Thank you. Fact is, I know my belief is offensive to many. If it is my belief that offends, there is nothing I can do. However, if I offend by HOW I say it, Then I am wrong.

That is why I try to be very careful with what I say... especially on this type of topic. I get carried away at times in the political thread... try not to.

But on this subject, I try as hard as I can to be as careful as I can.

Leftoverhard
10-04-2008, 09:44 PM
I don't think many christians would have problems with atheists if they didn't make a fuss about saying pledge of allegiance in school, or trying to take christmas out of the vocabulary, as well as manger scenes in towns across USA. It is the extremists, and I realize this works both ways, who ruin it for the average.

Ok - The Pledge Of Allegiance is fine - as originally written.

"I Pledge Allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Interestingly, it was written by a Christian Socialist. :wink02:

The Jehovah's Witnesses saw the Pledge to the flag as idolatry - they were blasted for it. And that was even before the addition in the 1950's addition of "under God" which conflicted with many more groups, namely the roughly %15 percent of Americans who don't believe in a God and the other non-Christians who believe in something else. Of course not everyone takes offense. I remember reciting it in grade school and feeling pride for my country and then feeling a little wierd about the "under God" part. It made me feel like an outsider. I remember during the 1st Gulf War all of the sudden we started saying it every morning even though we hadn't been saying it for years. I brought this up to the teacher, I questioned why suddenly it was mandatory again, why not at all times. I ended up getting suspended.

As for the other things, I get you. I can't stand some of the nitpicky crap that gets deemed newsworthy or law-worthy, like most of the smoking bans and a bunch of the other "safety" crap. But what it looks like you're saying is that you want athiests to just sit back and take it. That sucks. People are individuals, warts and all. People are not their Religion or lack of it. Extremists "ruin" it for themselves. And one man's extremist is another man's moderate.

GBMelBlount
10-04-2008, 10:18 PM
Preacher

there is one common element between all the religions, and that is humanity. The wretchedness of some humans should not be used as an a priori argument against religion.

Well said Preach. People are flawed. You shouldn't judge a religion by the people who improperly practice it.

cubanstogie
10-04-2008, 10:19 PM
Ok - The Pledge Of Allegiance is fine - as originally written.

"I Pledge Allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Interestingly, it was written by a Christian Socialist. :wink02:

The Jehovah's Witnesses saw the Pledge to the flag as idolatry - they were blasted for it. And that was even before the addition in the 1950's addition of "under God" which conflicted with many more groups, namely the roughly %15 percent of Americans who don't believe in a God and the other non-Christians who believe in something else. Of course not everyone takes offense. I remember reciting it in grade school and feeling pride for my country and then feeling a little wierd about the "under God" part. It made me feel like an outsider. I remember during the 1st Gulf War all of the sudden we started saying it every morning even though we hadn't been saying it for years. I brought this up to the teacher, I questioned why suddenly it was mandatory again, why not at all times. I ended up getting suspended.

As for the other things, I get you. I can't stand some of the nitpicky crap that gets deemed newsworthy or law-worthy, like most of the smoking bans and a bunch of the other "safety" crap. But what it looks like you're saying is that you want athiests to just sit back and take it. That sucks. People are individuals, warts and all. People are not their Religion or lack of it. Extremists "ruin" it for themselves. And one man's extremist is another man's moderate.

I am not saying sit back and take it. I am saying don't ruin it of others. I don't agree with gay and lesbian marriage or gay pride parades and so forth. But you don't see me protesting parades or other gay events. What they do is none of my business.I don't like things shoved down my throat. I don't agree with abortion either, I think it leads to a "disposal society" where things don't have any meaning. But It is legal and I think a womans right to do with her body what she wants.I would never push my opinion on any, even my own daughter. I certainly wouldn't protest and try to shut clinics down. What I am saying is everyone entitled to an opinion, it just seems that secularists want to ruin it for everyone else. If you don't want your kid saying the pledge in school, so be it. But why stop a tradition and ruin it for the majority. It you don't agree with xmas or manger scenes than don't look at them, or celebrate something else. whether I am ignorant, or naive, I look at most of these people as misfits who want to ruin it for the majority because they are uncomfortable or don't fit it.

Preacher
10-04-2008, 10:21 PM
Well said Preach. People are flawed. You shouldn't judge a religion by the people who improperly practice it.

Exactly... and to be fair, the same is true for atheism.

cubanstogie
10-04-2008, 10:27 PM
Ok - The Pledge Of Allegiance is fine - as originally written.

"I Pledge Allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Interestingly, it was written by a Christian Socialist. :wink02:

The Jehovah's Witnesses saw the Pledge to the flag as idolatry - they were blasted for it. And that was even before the addition in the 1950's addition of "under God" which conflicted with many more groups, namely the roughly %15 percent of Americans who don't believe in a God and the other non-Christians who believe in something else. Of course not everyone takes offense. I remember reciting it in grade school and feeling pride for my country and then feeling a little wierd about the "under God" part. It made me feel like an outsider. I remember during the 1st Gulf War all of the sudden we started saying it every morning even though we hadn't been saying it for years. I brought this up to the teacher, I questioned why suddenly it was mandatory again, why not at all times. I ended up getting suspended.

As for the other things, I get you. I can't stand some of the nitpicky crap that gets deemed newsworthy or law-worthy, like most of the smoking bans and a bunch of the other "safety" crap. But what it looks like you're saying is that you want athiests to just sit back and take it. That sucks. People are individuals, warts and all. People are not their Religion or lack of it. Extremists "ruin" it for themselves. And one man's extremist is another man's moderate.

you must have been pretty perceptive for a grade schooler. I just remember saying it, unaware of pride of country and never even thought about the god part. For the record I am not religious. I go to a catholic church with my wife and daughter because they are catholic, and I feel it is my duty as a father to spend time with them. I don't believe in certain aspects of catholicism, but my daughter can decide when she is old enough. I have issues with extremists on both sides, just more issues with secularists.

Preacher
10-04-2008, 10:39 PM
you must have been pretty perceptive for a grade schooler. I just remember saying it, unaware of pride of country and never even thought about the god part. For the record I am not religious. I go to a catholic church with my wife and daughter because they are catholic, and I feel it is my duty as a father to spend time with them. I don't believe in certain aspects of catholicism, but my daughter can decide when she is old enough. I have issues with extremists on both sides, just more issues with secularists.


In Grade school I had deep feelings of patriotism... When I was six years old I had a dream... the flag was flying, the National Anthem was playing in the background, and bombs were going off. I woke up in tears from patriotism (I lived on an airbase and remember having to stop when the flag was being raised or lowered every day... literally stop the car and not move until the flag was down). So yes, a child can definitely feel those feelings... and also feel negative when a parents teaching is counteracted by a school teacher.

BTW.. I keep seeing the word "Extremist" thrown around, but no one really is defining it. How would one define extremism?

GBMelBlount
10-04-2008, 10:57 PM
BTW.. I keep seeing the word "Extremist" thrown around, but no one really is defining it. How would one define extremism?

One thing leftover said that I thought was interesting is:

"one man's extremist is another man's moderate."

I would imagine it is relative to ones own frame of reference to some degree.

cubanstogie
10-04-2008, 11:02 PM
In Grade school I had deep feelings of patriotism... When I was six years old I had a dream... the flag was flying, the National Anthem was playing in the background, and bombs were going off. I woke up in tears from patriotism (I lived on an airbase and remember having to stop when the flag was being raised or lowered every day... literally stop the car and not move until the flag was down). So yes, a child can definitely feel those feelings... and also feel negative when a parents teaching is counteracted by a school teacher.

BTW.. I keep seeing the word "Extremist" thrown around, but no one really is defining it. How would one define extremism?

I may be using the term loosely, but I am referring to those whose ideology is outside of the norm of the society. Radicals.

Leftoverhard
10-04-2008, 11:49 PM
Extremist, hmm. One of those guys who bungee jumps or base jumps for the adrenaline rush? lol.
Seriously though, I don't have any idea.

Oh Preacher - btw, I wanted to mention that I believe Jesus existed. I probably just picked and chose what I liked about my strange mixed-religion childhood, sort of like fantasy football - and I think I could be called hypocritical for believing in one thing and not another. But I've always been fascinated by his story and it stands out to me as being pretty believable (most of it anyway).
I know that probably sounds pretty lame - but I'm ok with that.

tony hipchest
10-05-2008, 12:15 AM
In Grade school I had deep feelings of patriotism... When I was six years old I had a dream... the flag was flying, the National Anthem was playing in the background, and bombs were going off. I woke up in tears from patriotism (I lived on an airbase and remember having to stop when the flag was being raised or lowered every day... literally stop the car and not move until the flag was down). So yes, a child can definitely feel those feelings... yep. 1630 every afternoon.

i especially like the "reville" being played every night at 2000 over the loudspeakers as if it were the omnipotent trumpets coming from the heavens above. (those who live in towns with tornado sirens, just imagine the reville instead).

i remember the 1st grade well. my teacher played the piano, and we learned to sing along the Star Spangled Banner, My Country Tis' of Thee, and God Bless America. instead of junk books to read, we had a set of encyclopedias. we learned all the presidents of the US. 1st grade is when i first had the thought i'd like to be president when i grow up. thats stuff i learned from school.

at home, that is when i learned what a bomb was (but didnt yet know of the russians). i remember going out to the beach late at night to watch missles being fired. i also remember waking up to the sound in the middle of the night, not knowing if it was a rocket or earthquake. i remember reagan being shot, and the fear that was had for our leaders life.

but most of all, i remember the pride. i cherish the appreciation of diversity i learned the most. im almost certain most public schools dont have the same curriculum of that on a military base.

i remember it all so well cause those were some of the most formulative years in my life. i also remember my mom instilling the values of some dude named Jesus Christ, on the side. :applaudit: not "religion", but a philosopy and historical background. a background so solid, it didnt matter if i went to a protestant, catholic, pentacostal, baptist, or methodist church. ive attended them all, and the message was still the same to me.

i remember asking to be "saved" in the 3rd grade on my own accord. i also remember all the dinosaur and space books i collected as a kid (and all the research and reading i did) and contemplating the difference between what was tought as "science" and "religion".

i have a feeling most kids these days just dont think how i did as a 1st-3rd grader. its a shame, but schooling is now looked at as "needless govt. welfare." i could only wish my upbringing and education on all the americans i adore as my peeps.

anyways, i too, think bill maher is a dick. i may watch this on HBO or something if it proves to have enough shock value or controversy stirring (i tend to like those types of flics).

steelwall
10-05-2008, 12:21 AM
Mosca...



Furthermore, athiesm should not get a pass either, but should be treated just as another system of thought.

Exactly!!!!!

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-05-2008, 08:05 AM
Atheists are humans, too, Preacher. Look at me. I'm not wearing horns.

And that was my point; that humans use religion. In the absence of religion, they will use something else. Usurped by humans doing evil, LLT.



Then let me propose this....there are many things in this world that are inherently good and beautiful....the birth of a baby...a wedding day...etc.

But there are evil people who... get pregnant and scam those who cant have children....leave a bride/groom at the alter alone...

...the insitutions remain good and beautiful ...its some of those that move within the confines of those institutions that are evil.

....Religion is the same way...its a good and beautiful institution....its those that choose to be evil inside its confines that are wrong.

It is just as wrong for me to say that religion is "wrong" because of those who place their evil within it...then it is for me to say that pregnancy or marriage is evil.

Am I making sense?

Vis
10-05-2008, 08:57 AM
He does ask interesting questions in the movie that most won't even attempt to answer.

Preacher
10-05-2008, 09:38 AM
He does ask interesting questions in the movie that most won't even attempt to answer.

Re-ask them here, and I would love to engage in a discussion. However I refuse to go to a movie by a person who has already pre-supposed ignorance for those who disagree with him.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-05-2008, 09:54 AM
Originally Posted by Vis
He does ask interesting questions in the movie that most won't even attempt to answer.


...why do you say that?

Preacher
10-05-2008, 10:25 AM
...why do you say that?

My guess is that it is an assumption that "religious people" don't critically think. At least, that is an accusation that I consistently hear.

Leftoverhard
10-05-2008, 11:20 AM
I found an article on the movie that seems pretty neutral to me.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/films/article/bill_maher_gets_downright_religulous_20080924/

I was thinking about some way I could describe what makes this movie valuable for anyone to watch. Here's what I came up with.
While I was in the theater, a woman behind me was laughing it up with the rest of us. Then near the end, when Maher digs into the Muslims, she starts making disgust noises. Clearly, she was now offended. Why wasn't she offended earlier when he was taking on the Mormons?
Then, she stopped making her disgust noises and got quiet like the rest of us. No one was laughing at the end of this movie, no one clapped - and if asked earlier I would have bet on rauchous applause during the credits, purely on it's comedy merits.
My point is, the movie is really funny - when it's poking at the ex-gay Christian, or the Morman security guards - but then it gets to your religion and hits a religious nerve in you. And that realization is invaluable to anyone, religious or not - I think the message of tolerance (religious or otherwise) in that movie was as poignant as any other message it had - intentional or not.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-05-2008, 02:12 PM
My guess is that it is an assumption that "religious people" don't critically think. At least, that is an accusation that I consistently hear.

Exactly

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-05-2008, 02:16 PM
I think the message of tolerance (religious or otherwise) in that movie was as poignant as any other message it had - intentional or not.

I know that you didnt just say that a movie aimed at making fun of all religions is validated by its message of tolerance.:doh:

Leftoverhard
10-05-2008, 02:38 PM
I know that you didnt just say that a movie aimed at making fun of all religions is validated by its message of tolerance.:doh:


Yes I did. :yawn:

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-05-2008, 02:45 PM
Yes I did. :yawn:

Really?....then by all means... please enlighten us as to how Maher's intolerance of religion is a message of tolerance.

I quess in a Bizarro world mentality.....It would be like if I hate everyone equally, I am spreading a message of love....right?:doh:

I look forward to your explanation.

cubanstogie
10-05-2008, 02:56 PM
Really?....then by all means... please enlighten us as to how Maher's intolerance of religion is a message of tolerance.

I quess in a Bizarro world mentality.....It would be like if I hate everyone equally, I am spreading a message of love....right?:doh:

I look forward to your explanation.
I do too, I am just afraid I might need an interpretor to understand it.

Leftoverhard
10-05-2008, 03:07 PM
Maybe you guys should read my post again. I explain what I said right there. It has nothing to do with Maher's supposed "intolerance of religion" - which isn't true. Nor does my post say anything about hating anyone. Wierd. Oh, maybe you should watch the movie.

I thought my post was pretty clear.

tony hipchest
10-05-2008, 03:32 PM
I thought my post was pretty clear.it was.

the spin machine is just in overdrive regarding anything somebody voting for obama post in the "locker room".

:bump:

Preacher
10-05-2008, 03:35 PM
Come on people...

Think through the post... It was what someone ELSE said about the movie... and at the end, I think we are not reading the entire quote....

the message of tolerance (religious or otherwise) in that movie was as poignant as any other message it had - intentional or not.

the writer is NOT saying that this was an intentional movie about tolerance... it was saying that one lesson we can learn is that by everyone being offended by one part of this movie... we can learn that everyone gets offended... thus, be tolerant.

Wether that is or isn't true is up for debate. But there's enough issues already when dealing faith systems... let's take the arguments for what they are.

revefsreleets
10-05-2008, 06:22 PM
The REAL problem with forming concrete opinions about a movie like this is that most people are forming their opinions BEFORE THEY'VE SEEN IT!

You really, you know, can't do that in a fair and balanced and unbiased way.

I do want to touch on the thing about "questions they won't answer" thing, though...it's my understanding (obviously 3rd party as I've yet to see the flick) that the questions are about some the more contradictory dogma of each particular religion...

fansince'76
10-05-2008, 06:27 PM
The REAL problem with forming concrete opinions about a movie like this is that most people are forming their opinions BEFORE THEY'VE SEEN IT!

You really, you know, can't do that in a fair and balanced and unbiased way.

I do want to touch on the thing about "questions they won't answer" thing, though...it's my understanding (obviously 3rd party as I've yet to see the flick) that the questions are about some the more contradictory dogma of each particular religion...

I'm not religious, so I seriously doubt I would be offended by the subject matter. I can't stand Bill Maher, which is why I'm not going to see it, in a nutshell. Same principle as to why I don't see Jim Carrey movies - can't stand him either.

revefsreleets
10-05-2008, 06:32 PM
I saw "An Inconvenient Truth " and I despise Gore, especially since he's made a BUTTLOAD of cash off his misguided campaign. I see all Michael Moore's movies, and I don't like him either (although I'll admit on the rare occasions he pulls his head out of his ass he can be very funny).

I feel compelled to absorb as much as I can from all sides of every issue in order to form the most informed opinion about it.

Hines0wnz
10-05-2008, 10:50 PM
I'll probably wait until it hits HBO or Showtime.

*shrug*

Preacher
10-05-2008, 10:54 PM
I saw "An Inconvenient Truth " and I despise Gore, especially since he's made a BUTTLOAD of cash off his misguided campaign. I see all Michael Moore's movies, and I don't like him either (although I'll admit on the rare occasions he pulls his head out of his ass he can be very funny).

I feel compelled to absorb as much as I can from all sides of every issue in order to form the most informed opinion about it.


I thought you were being funny here... as I read, "The most MISinformed opinion.

I started laughing, then realized that wasn't what you typed!

Dang it. I thought it was a hilarious line!

revefsreleets
10-06-2008, 07:50 AM
Gotta know what the other side is thinking in order to be prepared to debate about it...

But that would be a funny quote, given the subject matter...

Preacher
10-06-2008, 02:02 PM
Gotta know what the other side is thinking in order to be prepared to debate about it...

But that would be a funny quote, given the subject matter...


I didn't think about it in terms of the subject matter... yeah, hilarious!!

millwalldavey
10-06-2008, 04:24 PM
It's not right for me. I'm atheist, but I take no joy in poking at anyone.

Nice to know. ME too!

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-07-2008, 04:51 AM
it was.

the spin machine is just in overdrive regarding anything somebody voting for obama post in the "locker room".

:bump:

HUH?

When did this become an Obama thing?....Did I miss something?

cowboykilla
10-07-2008, 10:59 PM
Maher is right 95% of the time. This movie is the other 5%.

millwalldavey
10-08-2008, 04:56 PM
Atheists are fine...as long as they just STFU about it already! They make the Jehovah Witnesses seem taciturn in comparison...

Funny that. Thats how I feel about most religious people.

revefsreleets
04-12-2010, 09:03 AM
Finally got around to seeing this. Still no fan of Maher's, but I have to admit a I laughed quite a bit. He IS too smug and snarky, and I'd have liked this more if he'd have stuck to trouncing religion instead of the general belief in God.

To me, the most salient point he made in the doc was about belief in fairy tales and how indoctrination of the young shapes a lot of lifelong belief systems. To wit, he asks if people would fight so vehemently (and sometimes literally and to the death) to support their beliefs if instead of biblical fantasies, they'd have been taught that God was the giant in "Jack and the Beantstalk".

I'm guessing yes...

Leftoverhard
04-12-2010, 04:19 PM
Wow - that's an old pot to stir. Glad you saw it - hopefully this will sink back down before it turns into another.........well, something other than it started as.

ricardisimo
04-12-2010, 05:30 PM
Did someone mention Obama...?

7SteelGal43
04-12-2010, 05:32 PM
Won't be seeing it - can't stand Bill Maher.

this^

7SteelGal43
04-12-2010, 05:40 PM
He IS too smug and snarky,




:rofl:

smokin3000gt
04-12-2010, 06:48 PM
There is no doubt to me God exists. Many things have happened in my life that go beyond scientific, or rational explination.

I detest BM I'll never see his movie or any other show he's in for that matter.

+1

No doubt about it.