PDA

View Full Version : Steelers vs. Jags - Who Gets Your Game Ball?


HometownGal
10-05-2008, 10:27 PM
Again, so many choices, but mine goes to Big Ben. That poor guy got the living shit knocked out of him most of the night but still came through when he needed to.

The entire team gets a game ball too! :tt03::tt02:

4-1 at the bye baby! :tt02:

The Duke
10-05-2008, 10:29 PM
our franchise qb

put the game on his shoulders and he produces

Defense did a great job too though

fansince'76
10-05-2008, 10:31 PM
Ben and Moore.

Edman
10-05-2008, 10:32 PM
Ben wins the game ball. Such a gutsy player. We can't win if throw more than 25 times!

Mewelde Moore and Nate Washington stepped up tonight too.

He threw 41 times tonight. I doubt if he'll still get accolades, though.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
10-05-2008, 10:32 PM
All i know is that we are 4-1
game ball goes to Moore?

Crushzilla
10-05-2008, 10:33 PM
Team effort, obviously...

But...

Ben & Moore on offense

McFadden on defense

PalmerSteel
10-05-2008, 10:33 PM
normally would say ben, but mewlede in his 1st start showed he was our biggest offseason aquisition today. he stepped up when needed the most. ben it is expected. has to be moore.

Borski
10-05-2008, 10:33 PM
I give props to Moore

HereWeGoSteelers219
10-05-2008, 10:34 PM
Ben is a warrior.

xXTheSteelKingsXx
10-05-2008, 10:34 PM
Big Ben gets it tonight.

43Hitman
10-05-2008, 10:36 PM
My game ball would go to Moore. He had one hell of a game for us, made some plays when we really needed them.

NV STEELERS 723
10-05-2008, 10:37 PM
Yep total team effort!!!!! Awesome D and pass rush But the game balls goes to Big Ben and Moore!

steelpride12
10-05-2008, 10:38 PM
Big Ben. He started off with a INT for 6, and came back managed the offense and threw 3 TD's and did an excellent job under pressure.

steeler dude
10-05-2008, 10:39 PM
BIG BEN ! why do we even have to answer this question ?:sofunny::helmet::rofl:

Big7BenHOF
10-05-2008, 10:39 PM
Has to go to Big Ben.

scsteeler
10-05-2008, 10:41 PM
My game Ball goes to Big Ben but I want say the entire team produced in all areas. Offense, defense,& yes special teams.

kmsteelerwr15
10-05-2008, 10:42 PM
i would love to give it to Moore, but its gotta go to Ben. He really showed alot when he put that int behind him and was on fire

but i gotta give props to McFadden, he made some huge break-ups at the end there

Leftoverhard
10-05-2008, 10:44 PM
Big Ben is a monster. Moore is the runner up, what an awesome badass that kid is.

lilyoder6
10-05-2008, 10:45 PM
the team did great... w. b-mac, moore and nate stepping up.... but ben bringing the team back to win at the end

X-Terminator
10-05-2008, 10:46 PM
Ben. The guy is a frickin warrior. You can hit him 1000 times, and he'll burn you for a TD on hit 1001. One of the toughest guys in the league, without a doubt.

hizmi
10-05-2008, 10:49 PM
Ben deserves it...but unless he starts getting rid of the ball sooner, he's not going to make it to the end of the season.

hizmi
10-05-2008, 10:57 PM
special mention also for Silverback and Woodley....being able to generate a pass rush without exotic blitzes in obvious passing situations is invaluable

I really think our defense has CLEARLY improved since last year due to a) woodley replacing haggans and wreaking havoc; b) Polamalu is healthy; and c) Timmons has been excellent in coverage defending against those dump-offs that used to kill us on third downs

shevdog
10-05-2008, 11:00 PM
Game ball goes to the Steelers D. Woodley did great again!

Preacher
10-05-2008, 11:00 PM
How in the world do you decide?

I have to say............


Stapleton. He solidified his side of the line. Gave been time he hasn't been getting, pulled and made some nice hits, and really helped us out.

But how do you lift that above Ben's effort tonight? Can you?

Where would we be without Moore's work tonight?

Then, what about Woodley and his 2 sacks or more?

I donl;t know.

MVP... I guess it has to be Ben, though my heart really wants to say Stapleton for solidifying that line.

Chronicgaming
10-05-2008, 11:02 PM
Ben definitely, with honorable mentions to Heath (really came through in the first half) and the D for some great stops.

jjpro11
10-05-2008, 11:07 PM
ben stood out the most, but it was a team effort.. the oline finally came to play, the defense was as good as usual, moore came out of nowhere and made some big plays for us, special teams had very solid coverage other than one return all game.

Avoid LLoyd1975
10-05-2008, 11:09 PM
Go Hines. He came up with some clutch catches. It is easy to vote for Ben as well. But he did hold onto the ball too long a few times that put us into some bad situations. All in all, I guess it is a toss up between them two.

Steelman16
10-05-2008, 11:11 PM
Mine has to go to Big Ben. That throw to Ward late in the game while taking a rip to his shoulder was some incredible toughness.

Offense honorable mention goes to Mewelde Moore. The guy played his heart out.

Defensive honorable mention goes to the entire D. They played great ball all night long.


:tt02:

An awesome win overall. :drink:

Sharkissle29
10-05-2008, 11:12 PM
Team effort, obviously...

But...

Ben & Moore on offense

McFadden on defense

We need to get mcfadden resigned IMMEDIATELY. he is unbelievable, he is an extremely smart player

hizmi
10-05-2008, 11:14 PM
We need to get mcfadden resigned IMMEDIATELY. he is unbelievable, he is an extremely smart player

According to KC Joyner, Mcfadden and townsend have continued to put up good metrics while Taylor continues to struggle. He openly questioned why we insist on starting him over superior players.

The Duke
10-05-2008, 11:17 PM
According to KC Joyner, Mcfadden and townsend have continued to put up good metrics while Taylor continues to struggle. He openly questioned why we insist on starting him over superior players.

you know, cornerbacks stats always seem to be different depending on who does them

check out this article, it's positive for taylor

http://pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_591733.html

KC joyner is very recognized one though, so....:noidea:

from my perspective, ike's been ok

tony hipchest
10-05-2008, 11:23 PM
According to KC Joyner, Mcfadden and townsend have continued to put up good metrics while Taylor continues to struggle. He openly questioned why we insist on starting him over superior players.
who the f--- is this kc joyner you speak of? and why the hell does he still have a voice? :banging:

hizmi
10-05-2008, 11:26 PM
who the f--- is this kc joyner you speak of? and why the hell does he still have a voice? :banging:

He's the "Football Scientist"

He breaks down the film of every play of every game and records the metrics of every player. For cornerbacks, I think he uses the YPA metric, and Taylor has consistently put up mediocre-to-bad numbers, especially in comparison to mcfadden and townsend

hizmi
10-05-2008, 11:28 PM
you know, cornerbacks stats always seem to be different depending on who does them

check out this article, it's positive for taylor

http://pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_591733.html

KC joyner is very recognized one though, so....:noidea:

from my perspective, ike's been ok

From a purely subjective point of view, I have no idea what to think of him. It seems some think he's almost a shutdown CB, while others think he shouldn't be starting.

tony hipchest
10-05-2008, 11:32 PM
this gameball goes to mike tomlin.

he decided to start moore over dookie and russell. moors game should come as no suprise.

it was a bit below average compared to what he has shown to be capable of in the past (ande he has shown that he is capable of being an every down back and starter in this league in the past).

whoever got washington involved in the game along with heath (im pretty sure it was tomlin) deserves the gameball.

whoever drafted woodley and timmons, allowed troy to do his own thing, and retained dick lebeau, deserves the gameball for this win.

WHOEVER went for the 2 point conversion TWICE, even after a penalty (against the jags) despite lat years scrutiny, deserves the gameball.

whoever let a decimated ben throw it 40 times when moore was eating people up, deserves a gameball.

mike coached one hell of a game. i give all credit to him.

tony hipchest
10-05-2008, 11:33 PM
He's the "Football Scientist"

He breaks down the film of every play of every game and records the metrics of every player. For cornerbacks, I think he uses the YPA metric, and Taylor has consistently put up mediocre-to-bad numbers, especially in comparison to mcfadden and townsendis he anything like "bill nye the science guy"?

(that dude was pretty funny)

:chuckle:

JackHammer
10-05-2008, 11:35 PM
Gotta give it to Ben and Moore.

X-Terminator
10-05-2008, 11:36 PM
this gameball goes to mike tomlin.

he decided to start moore over dookie and russell. moors game should come as no suprise.

it was a bit below average compared to what he has shown to be capable of in the past (ande he has shown that he is capable of being an every down back and starter in this league in the past).

whoever got washington involved in the game along with heath (im pretty sure it was tomlin) deserves the gameball.

whoever drafted woodley and timmons, allowed troy to do his own thing, and retained dick lebeau, deserves the gameball for this win.

WHOEVER went for the 2 point conversion TWICE, even after a penalty (against the jags) despite lat years scrutiny, deserves the gameball.

whoever let a decimated ben throw it 40 times when moore was eating people up, deserves a gameball.

mike coached one hell of a game. i give all credit to him.

But he doesn't show any emotion on the sideline and doesn't spray spit everywhere when he's mad, so he should be fired immediately! :chuckle::sofunny:

fansince'76
10-05-2008, 11:38 PM
But he doesn't show any emotion on the sideline and doesn't spray spit everywhere when he's mad, so he should be fired immediately! :chuckle::sofunny:

He freaks out and calls time outs for no reason too! :chuckle:

tony hipchest
10-05-2008, 11:48 PM
But he doesn't show any emotion on the sideline and doesn't spray spit everywhere when he's mad, so he should be fired immediately! :chuckle::sofunny:lol. :sofunny:

i loved the shot of him running out and embracing james harrison and slapping him on the helmet after the game. :thumbsup::drink::tt03:

Preacher
10-05-2008, 11:51 PM
And, And, And,

he doesn't have a wife name Kaye

KeiselPower99
10-05-2008, 11:52 PM
Mewelde gets it from me.

tony hipchest
10-05-2008, 11:58 PM
From a purely subjective point of view, I have no idea what to think of him. It seems some think he's almost a shutdown CB, while others think he shouldn't be starting. :rofl:

obviously you dont.

so who are these "others" you speak of?

cause i can list about 31 NFL executives who would start ike in their team.

to suggest taylor isnt a top 64 cb in this league is purely aSSinine.

X-Terminator
10-05-2008, 11:58 PM
lol. :sofunny:

i loved the shot of him running out and embracing james harrison and slapping him on the helmet after the game. :thumbsup::drink::tt03:

So did I...:tt03:

He gets fired up just like any other coach and has such a passion for the game, and that was just another example.

Preacher
10-06-2008, 12:01 AM
So did I...:tt03:

He gets fired up just like any other coach and has such a passion for the game, and that was just another example.

Yes,

but I ALSO love the fact that he also seems to carry himself in a dignified fashion on the sidelines.

He's a differenct character then Cowher. I loved Cowher for all he brought to the team.

Now, I love Tomlin for the character he is and what he brings to the team!

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-06-2008, 12:09 AM
is he anything like "bill nye the science guy"?

(that dude was pretty funny)

:chuckle:
Isnt that the guy wearing the question marks on those infomercials??

Speaking of question marks. I give the gameball to Max Starks. Even when Smith went down he never gave up on his responsibility to hold down the bench. He should use that $6.9mil to get a Lazy-Boy for the sidelines :popcorn:

hizmi
10-06-2008, 12:24 AM
:rofl:

obviously you dont.

so who are these "others" you speak of?

cause i can list about 31 NFL executives who would start ike in their team.

to suggest taylor isnt a top 64 cb in this league is purely aSSinine.

go ahead and name them and show where they said such a thing

and nobody said he's not a top 64 CB...Joyner just said he shouldn't be starting ahead of mcfadden and townsend

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-06-2008, 12:31 AM
Is this another form of the post from last season where this Joyner statistically determined that Najeh Davenport is a better RB than Willie Parker??

If it is, then we know that on "paper" Joyner is correct........the problem is the game of Football isn't played on paper, but rather A GRIDIRON.

hizmi
10-06-2008, 12:36 AM
Is this another form of the post from last season where this Joyner statistically determined that Najeh Davenport is a better RB than Willie Parker??

If it is, then we know that on "paper" Joyner is correct........the problem is the game of Football isn't played on paper, but rather A GRIDIRON.

No that was football outsiders...I don't know what joyner thinks of willie vs. najeh.

and since football is played on a gridiron, that means all stats are irrelevant right? Or only the stats that contradict your purely subjective opinion?

Preacher
10-06-2008, 12:40 AM
No that was football outsiders...I don't know what joyner thinks of willie vs. najeh.

and since football is played on a gridiron, that means all stats are irrelevant right? Or only the stats that contradict your purely subjective opinion?

No,

Stats can be manipulated, adjusted, inflated, etc. etc.

For instance... How many of the yards on Ike come when the D is playing an umbrella D? You go for your best receivers at that time.

For that matter, how many stats are BECAUSE Ike is on the best recievers?

Stats don't tell the story, they only make you ask more intelligent questions. To conclude anything from stats is silly at best.

hizmi
10-06-2008, 12:42 AM
No,
To conclude anything from stats is silly at best.

So I can't conclude anything about Big Ben by looking at his career QB rating or his career winning%?

Steelman16
10-06-2008, 12:49 AM
So I can't conclude anything about Big Ben by looking at his career QB rating or his career winning%?

Sure, go ahead. You'll only find he's simply one of the best quarterbacks in the league.

But, PLEASE, take your stats elsewhere. This is the Game Ball thread, not the boxscore-who-had-the-better-DVOA-or-whatever-thread. Thank you.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-06-2008, 12:51 AM
No that was football outsiders...I don't know what joyner thinks of willie vs. najeh.

and since football is played on a gridiron, that means all stats are irrelevant right? Or only the stats that contradict your purely subjective opinion?

No, stats are not irrelevant. I have stated in the past and belive it to be true, that the majority of coaches decisions on player evaluations take statistics into account, but they make visual evaluations of who can just play better than others.

Maybe Joyner and others that believe strongly that statistics determine players value, despite ignoring that there are countless other variables that should be accounted for before making decisions based only on the stats.

I have not idea if Lewis Sanders, Ellis Hobbs or Jason David are having better seasons than Ike Taylor, based upon this method of evaluation. If they are or arent is irrelevant, since they havent played against the same teams, the same WR's, in the same situations, the same weather conditions.....and the list goes on.

Stats or not, you dont have to be a seasoned NFL Coach or GM to figure out that Ike Taylor is a better starting CB than Lewis Sanders, Ellis Hobbs or Jason David.

Preacher
10-06-2008, 12:54 AM
So I can't conclude anything about Big Ben by looking at his career QB rating or his career winning%?

CONCLUDE? No. You use his Career QB rating to point you in specific directions. Winning % No. Cause if you do that, you think Brady is one of the best ever... but those stats SHOULD make you look deeper... and a deeper look shows that video tape is a good thing.

See what I mean? Stats POINT YOU to things.. they are not the end all be all.

hizmi
10-06-2008, 12:54 AM
No, stats are not irrelevant. I have stated in the past and belive it to be true, that the majority of coaches decisions on player evaluations take statistics into account, but they make visual evaluations of who can just play better than others.

Maybe Joyner and others that believe strongly that statistics determine players value, despite ignoring that there are countless other variables that should be accounted for before making decisions based only on the stats.

I have not idea if Lewis Sanders, Ellis Hobbs or Jason David are having better seasons than Ike Taylor, based upon this method of evaluation. If they are or arent is irrelevant, since they havent played against the same teams, the same WR's, in the same situations, the same weather conditions.....and the list goes on.

Stats or not, you dont have to be a seasoned NFL Coach or GM to figure out that Ike Taylor is a better starting CB than Lewis Sanders, Ellis Hobbs or Jason David.

Like i said, Joyner breaks down every play from every game on film....

tony hipchest
10-06-2008, 12:55 AM
Sure, go ahead. You'll only find he's simple one of the best quarterbacks in the league.

But, PLEASE, take your stats elsewhere. This is the Game Ball thread, not the boxscore-who-had-the-better-DVOA-or-whatever-thread. Thank you.:applaudit:

:wave:

hizmi
10-06-2008, 12:57 AM
CONCLUDE? No. You use his Career QB rating to point you in specific directions. Winning % No. Cause if you do that, you think Brady is one of the best ever... but those stats SHOULD make you look deeper... and a deeper look shows that video tape is a good thing.

See what I mean? Stats POINT YOU to things.. they are not the end all be all.

Using your logic, I can't conclude by looking at various stats (QB rating, YPA, TD/INT ratio) that Brady is better than Tarvaris Jackson.

tony hipchest
10-06-2008, 01:00 AM
Using your logic, I can't conclude by looking at various stats (QB rating, YPA, TD/INT ratio) that Brady is better than Tarvaris Jackson.
using anyone's logic im not sure you could concude anything...

or maybe everything. :noidea:

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-06-2008, 01:01 AM
I agree with preacher, but believe to conclude anything from stats ALONE, is silly at best.

Ever hear some commentator say "that guy is just a football PLAYER"?? Usually its directed towards some player that doesnt have great strength, speed, vertical jump, long jump, numbers, etc......but can just play.

We can talk all day about guys like Mike Mamula, Tony Mandarich, Willie Parker, Tom Brady, Steve Tasker, Jeff Saturday, Rick Mirer, who had numbers or didnt have them and were judged incorrectly.

I remember CB Mike Haynes said that the Raiders passed on him because he didnt have stopwatch speed and Al Davis told him so. Davis acquired Haynes years later because he was a shutdown corner and told him he made a mistake.

Gotta mix quantitative and qualitative analysis.

hizmi
10-06-2008, 01:01 AM
using anyone's logic im not sure you could concude anything...

or maybe everything. :noidea:

:chuckle: How existential

Steeldude
10-06-2008, 01:02 AM
offense - moore

defense - hoke :smile:

hizmi
10-06-2008, 01:04 AM
Gotta mix quantitative and qualitative analysis.

Agreed...I just find it amusing that people dismiss stats in favor of pure subjectivity, yet they don't watch any film and have absolutely no credentials in evaluating cornernback play.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-06-2008, 01:09 AM
Like i said, Joyner breaks down every play from every game on film....

Great, but does he compare all players per postion in the NFL to each other, or just similar players in similar positions on the same team??

I just find it hard to put any stock in a statistical analysis comparing players when he dosnt necessesarily know all the variables in the equation.

For instance, he may see a play that Ike Taylor gets beat on underneath, but how does he know what Taylor's responsibility is on that defense?? If they are playing a cover 2, then Ike has the short flat and the LB has the underneath. If they are playing cover 2- seam, then he has the wide flat and deep 3rd of the field and has to respect the deep ball.

Ike may have had a ball caught in front of him, but it may not be his responsibility in that coverage. Does Joyner know the teams coverages when he is breaking down this film??

tony hipchest
10-06-2008, 01:11 AM
yet they don't watch any film and have absolutely no cred...

yeah most people just watch tv as motion movie projectors are a bit outdated...

watching more "film" will NOT support your stance.

klick81
10-06-2008, 01:13 AM
How in the world do you decide?

I have to say............


Stapleton. He solidified his side of the line. Gave been time he hasn't been getting, pulled and made some nice hits, and really helped us out.

But how do you lift that above Ben's effort tonight? Can you?

Where would we be without Moore's work tonight?

Then, what about Woodley and his 2 sacks or more?

I donl;t know.

MVP... I guess it has to be Ben, though my heart really wants to say Stapleton for solidifying that line.

I'm w/ you on this one here. Too many people stepped up BIG TIME to pick just one.

hizmi
10-06-2008, 01:15 AM
Great, but does he compare all players per postion in the NFL to each other, or just similar players in similar positions on the same team??

I just find it hard to put any stock in a statistical analysis comparing players when he dosnt necessesarily know all the variables in the equation.

For instance, he may see a play that Ike Taylor gets beat on underneath, but how does he know what Taylor's responsibility is on that defense?? If they are playing a cover 2, then Ike has the short flat and the LB has the underneath. If they are playing cover 2- seam, then he has the wide flat and deep 3rd of the field and has to respect the deep ball.

Ike may have had a ball caught in front of him, but it may not be his responsibility in that coverage. Does Joyner know the teams coverages when he is breaking down this film??

Here's a list of terms he uses to control for some of those variables you mention

http://www.thefootballscientist.com/football_research/glossary.htm

I'm not saying the guy's analysis is gospel...I don't even have access to all of his content and I don't know exactly what his methods are....I just know he's very well respected and he does his homework. I'd certainly trust his word over any schmoe on this forum who has never analyzed a single minute of film.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-06-2008, 01:15 AM
Agreed...I just find it amusing that people dismiss stats in favor of pure subjectivity, yet they don't watch any film and have absolutely no credentials in evaluating cornernback play.

Yes, but either you like to instigate this kind of debate, or truly believe stats are the deciding factor, because you honestly come across as leaning purely on statistical analysis.

From what I have seen, coaches often drool over stats that a guy puts up, but then say. Can he play?? I knew a guy that was the regional 100 yard champion, but put equipment on him and he was a fumbling machine that couldnt see the hole to run in unless you held his hand thru it.

Ike Taylor clearly is the best CB on the Steelers, but stats may say otherwise.

Ben gets the game ball on O
Silverback on D.

The Duke
10-06-2008, 01:16 AM
I'd like to see one stat. How many touchdown has ike allowed this season

after all, points win the game

at least we know he is shutdown when it comes to ocho jerko

hizmi
10-06-2008, 01:17 AM
yeah most people just watch tv as motion movie projectors are a bit outdated...

watching more "film" will NOT support your stance.

Ok..since you don't seem to understand my point....I'll go ahead and ask...how do you know how good Ike Taylor is?

Steelman16
10-06-2008, 01:18 AM
Ok..since you don't seem to understand my point....I'll go ahead and ask...how do you know how good Ike Taylor is?

Cuz he's startin' for the Steelers and you ain't? :noidea:

tony hipchest
10-06-2008, 01:23 AM
Ok..since you don't seem to understand my point....I'll go ahead and ask...how do you know how good Ike Taylor is?because i watch the games instead of relying on somebody to make up my opinion for me.

the proof is simply in the pudding. :noidea:

you tell me...

why did dan rooney extend him?

hizmi
10-06-2008, 01:23 AM
Yes, but either you like to instigate this kind of debate, or truly believe stats are the deciding factor, because you honestly come across as leaning purely on statistical analysis.

From what I have seen, coaches often drool over stats that a guy puts up, but then say. Can he play?? I knew a guy that was the regional 100 yard champion, but put equipment on him and he was a fumbling machine that couldnt see the hole to run in unless you held his hand thru it.

Ike Taylor clearly is the best CB on the Steelers, but stats may say otherwise.

Ben gets the game ball on O
Silverback on D.

I do lean ALMOST purely on statistical analysis because I have no other choice. I can't get the endzone camera with slow motion replay on every play so I can determine who blew what coverage or who's at fault for what. I have no credentials in evaluating a cornerbacks play. I have no idea what good technique is. I can't watch how Ike is doing compared to another cornerback playing at the same time in a different game.

So rather than pretending like I know what the hell I'm talking about, I resort to the metrics that really smart people who have committed their entire professional lives to analyzing and studying this game have created.

hizmi
10-06-2008, 01:26 AM
because i watch the games instead of relying on somebody to make up my opinion for me.


How many games do you watch? What credentials do you have for evaluating coverage, scheme, and technique?

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-06-2008, 01:28 AM
Here's a list of terms he uses to control for some of those variables you mention

http://www.thefootballscientist.com/football_research/glossary.htm

I'm not saying the guy's analysis is gospel...I don't even have access to all of his content and I don't know exactly what his methods are....I just know he's very well respected and he does his homework. I'd certainly trust his word over any schmoe on this forum who has never analyzed a single minute of film.

Interesting. How do you know he is really very well respected?? Please don't say just by the scrolling testimonials on the left margin.

The only guy that was on that list was Charley Casserly and all he said the information was "interesting" Steve Sabol is 2nd generation story teller. I agree that not trusting schmoe's on a message board is probably good advice, but how about schmoes that are regional media??

I know some professional coaches that have played and coached in the NCAA and NFL. They look at guys measurables, but from what I can see, they know from their years of experience who they think plays better than others and who they invite to camp and give the starting jobs to. Maybe the stats say Ike is the #3 cb on the Steelers, but I bet Dick Lebeau doesnt think so.

Steelman16
10-06-2008, 01:31 AM
Maybe the stats say Ike is the #3 cb on the Steelers, but I bet Dick Lebeau doesnt think so.

And, (if I can make a point) Dick LeBeau's probably been around a whole heck of a lot longer than anyone on this board. :chuckle:

The Duke
10-06-2008, 01:37 AM
Maybe the stats say Ike is the #3 cb on the Steelers, but I bet Dick Lebeau doesnt think so.

oh, now that's a good one. if LeBeau, one of the best D coordinators ever, has him starting over bryant and deshea that 's all I need

if he benches him(unlikely) then I'll be fine with that too, I trust that man, a lot more than some "expert"

hizmi
10-06-2008, 01:39 AM
Interesting. How do you know he is really very well respected?? Please don't say just by the scrolling testimonials on the left margin.

The only guy that was on that list was Charley Casserly and all he said the information was "interesting" Steve Sabol is 2nd generation story teller. I agree that not trusting schmoe's on a message board is probably good advice, but how about schmoes that are regional media??

I know some professional coaches that have played and coached in the NCAA and NFL. They look at guys measurables, but from what I can see, they know from their years of experience who they think plays better than others and who they invite to camp and give the starting jobs to. Maybe the stats say Ike is the #3 cb on the Steelers, but I bet Dick Lebeau doesnt think so.

I suppose it's possibly he's not all that well-respected...I sort of assumed he was because of a) an endorsement from football outsiders; and b) he has a weekly chat on ESPN.com that is normally reserved for former front office guys (jeremey green, keith kidd) or beat writers.

Either way, considering he actually watches a ton of film and has a system of evaluating players, I'll actually consider what he has to say.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-06-2008, 01:39 AM
I do lean ALMOST purely on statistical analysis because I have no other choice. I can't get the endzone camera with slow motion replay on every play so I can determine who blew what coverage or who's at fault for what. I have no credentials in evaluating a cornerbacks play. I have no idea what good technique is. I can't watch how Ike is doing compared to another cornerback playing at the same time in a different game.

So rather than pretending like I know what the hell I'm talking about, I resort to the metrics that really smart people who have committed their entire professional lives to analyzing and studying this game have created.

Fair enough. I am by no means an expert, but have obtained coaching credentials, coached some DB's and probably lean on my experiences more than stats.

Like in the first half, McFadden got beat for a first down on an out by #81 and you could see he turned his hips way to early, despite playing an inside technique. He should have been backpedaling more and anticipated the break and the marker.....but then again, I dont know if he didnt have safety help and was scared of getting beat on the fly.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-06-2008, 01:41 AM
And, (if I can make a point) Dick LeBeau's probably been around a whole heck of a lot longer than anyone on this board. :chuckle:

For sure. It doesnt necessarily make him right......but it makes him 50 years worth of experience more right than I am.

hizmi
10-06-2008, 01:42 AM
Fair enough. I am by no means an expert, but have obtained coaching credentials, coached some DB's and probably lean on my experiences more than stats.

Like in the first half, McFadden got beat for a first down on an out by #81 and you could see he turned his hips way to early, despite playing an inside technique. He should have been backpedaling more and anticipated the break and the marker.....but then again, I dont know if he didnt have safety help and was scared of getting beat on the fly.

See..now that's good analysis, and I certainly respect your opinion if you have coaching credentials.

I don't, so I resort to stats mostly.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-06-2008, 01:51 AM
See..now that's good analysis, and I certainly respect your opinion if you have coaching credentials.

I don't, so I resort to stats mostly.
I can respect your opinion as well. Just as long as we both know our styles arent necessarily 100% correct. Football involves people, emotions, work and some luck........its not an exact science.

Galax Steeler
10-06-2008, 04:11 AM
My game ball goes to Ben and Moore also.

steelwall
10-06-2008, 05:12 AM
How can anyone doubt Ben gets the game ball..... a true warrior.

\m/xtrememarine\m/
10-06-2008, 06:28 AM
I believe Big Ben gets the ball, but he needs to split it with that powerful Steeler Defense. They D kept them in the game for the last two weeks.
:tt02:

the_king_from_leon
10-06-2008, 06:31 AM
Its got to be Big Ben after last night!

SCSTILLER
10-06-2008, 07:19 AM
I would have to say Big Ben gets the game ball, but Moore deserves some credit also.

Buzz05
10-06-2008, 07:22 AM
From everyone's favorite human being...Peter King
The Award Section
Offensive Players of the Week

Ben Roethlisberger, QB, Pittsburgh. What a man. My favorite mod football historian, Brian Hyland, my old boss at HBO and now at the NFL Network, texted me at 11:27 Sunday night thusly: "The dude is playing QB tonight like Winslow played in that playoff game at Miami.''

Couldn't have said it better. Playing with a separated shoulder after taking 31 significant hits the previous two weeks, Roethlisberger dodged Jags rushers all night and managed 26 completions in 41 throws for 309 yards with three touchdowns and a pick. He didn't practice all week because of his shoulder pain. Roethlisberger will go down in Steelers lore for his last six days, the improbable comeback Monday against Baltimore, then the deft, soft, arcing touchdown pass to Hines Ward with two minutes left that won this game.


I don't like him personally, but I agree with him on this. Ben's perfomance was something strait out of old school football lore.

Does anyone want to question why he got the $102 mil...if so then watch a replay of last nights game.

Tankus_Maximus
10-06-2008, 09:26 AM
Ben on Offense, dude spotted the kitties a TD, and STILL managed to win the game.

Harrison on Defense, dude could've had a couple more sacks had the LT (Barnes?) not been HOLDING him ALL DAY LONG.

Carolina Steelers
10-06-2008, 10:18 AM
I really loved what Moore did, but Big Ben once again drove us down for the winning TD. I'll go with Ben!!!!!

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-06-2008, 10:21 AM
Ben...but McFadden had a very quite... but effective game.

stlrtruck
10-06-2008, 12:07 PM
Gotta go with the throwback QB - BIG BEN!!!

Dino 6 Rings
10-06-2008, 12:22 PM
I have to give it to Ben. He could have easily become a moron after throwing that first INT for a TD and made more mistakes letting it get into his head. Instead, he settled down and lead the team through it. Yeah, he held on to the ball too long a couple times for my liking, then he held the ball too long and made some plays to my liking.

So over all, he did a great job, driving us down field to put us in position to win with under 2 minutes to play. Ben had a good game. The entire team played well enough to get the win and our Defense still hasn't let anyone score more than 20 points.

Preacher
10-06-2008, 01:59 PM
After further thought... (and posting in another thread that reminded me of this)

I need to add to my list the dude that lit a fire under Washington's rear-end to finally be able to step up and CATCH the ball. Wow.

steel striker
10-06-2008, 10:07 PM
Ben& Moore without a doubt. I would like for of those media type to eat crow because, they said you can't have Ben throw it more than 20 times or so. Well as always known Ben can make all throws and carry a team on his back.

SteelMember
10-07-2008, 11:21 AM
Gotta give it to Ben.

He bounced back after giving a gift pick six. I don't think Holmes even knew where that ball was.

Steelers offense dominated the 1st half. Time of posession and 1st downs are the "real" stats that can prove it. :thumbsup:

Michael Keller
10-07-2008, 03:00 PM
Ben , it is not even close !

iloveben7
10-07-2008, 04:52 PM
Ben all the way

RoethlisBURGHer
10-07-2008, 06:00 PM
Offense: Big Ben Roethlisberger
Defense: James Silverback Harrison

And as for the stats argument going on here:

Statistics don't tell the entire story. They don't tell heart, guts, will to win. They don't tell weather, the play of the players around you.

An example is the interception. A ball that bounces off of a receivers hands and gets caught by a defensive player goes down on the stat sheet as an interception thrown by the QB. Did the QB make a bad throw on that play? No, most of the time the WR failed to catch the ball on a good pass and the defensive player was lucky enough that the ball bounced to him.

And as for the KC Joyner guy, he's being spoken of like he's some type of demi-God. You ask us what are our credentials to judge a DB...I want to know what exactly his credentials are. Did he play football? Did he take classes in college to do this? Did he coach? Does he take into account Taylor's job on that specific defensive play call? Does he even know what Taylor's specific job was?

Ike Taylor plays CB in a very difficult scheme for one of the most genius defensive minds in football, all time. If it takes players who constantly work within this scheme and with Dick LeBeau and the other coaches years to get it down....then I don't think KC Joyner has the credentials to judge anyone.

You said that he judges by "in that players area"....but what exactly does he call the players area? Not every play call is zone, and what Joyner calls a player's "area" may not have been said player's zone in the play called.

I am sick of everyone being called a "football expert". There are stat geeks like Joyner, analysts like the guys on Fox NFL Sunday/NFL Live/etc. But these guys are not experts, IMHO...not even the former coaches.

TheWarDen86
10-07-2008, 06:04 PM
Ben gets the game ball, but a with honorable mention to Mewelde Moore, Heath Miller and Hines Ward. Plus big props to our defense. :tt02:

Havik
10-07-2008, 06:15 PM
Big Ben and Lamarr Woodley both deserve a game ball, this win wouldn't have been possible without either one.

ben7
10-07-2008, 07:34 PM
Ben gets it.

SteelersMongol
10-07-2008, 08:36 PM
Ben, with no doubt.

SteelCityMan786
10-07-2008, 09:02 PM
I have 6 to award

Offense: Ben Roethlisberger, Hines Ward, and Nate Washington

Defense: Lamar Woodley

Special Teams:Anthony Madison

THE ENTIRE TEAM.