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Atlanta Dan
10-09-2008, 11:52 AM
McCain in a Bear Market

By George F. Will
Thursday, October 9, 2008

Time was, the Baltimore Orioles' manager was Earl Weaver, a short, irascible, Napoleonic figure who, when cranky, as he frequently was, would shout at an umpire, "Are you going to get any better or is this it?" With, mercifully, only one debate to go, that is the question about John McCain's campaign. ...

In the closing days of his 10-year quest for the presidency, McCain finds it galling that Barack Obama is winning the first serious campaign he has ever run against a Republican. Before Tuesday night's uneventful event, gall was fueling what might be the McCain-Palin campaign's closing argument. It is less that Obama has bad ideas than that Obama is a bad person.

This, McCain and his female Sancho Panza say, is demonstrated by bad associations Obama had in Chicago, such as with William Ayers, the unrepentant terrorist. But the McCain-Palin charges have come just as the Obama campaign is benefiting from a mass mailing it is not paying for. Many millions of American households are gingerly opening envelopes containing reports of the third-quarter losses in their 401(k) and other retirement accounts -- telling each household its portion of the nearly $2 trillion that Americans' accounts have recently shed. In this context, the McCain-Palin campaign's attempt to get Americans to focus on Obama's Chicago associations seems surreal -- or, as a British politician once said about criticism he was receiving, "like being savaged by a dead sheep." :toofunny:


Full column linked below

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/08/AR2008100802926.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

revefsreleets
10-09-2008, 11:57 AM
I concede...barring a dead girl or a live boy, Obama is going to win this election.

Vis
10-09-2008, 11:57 AM
ouch..................

cubanstogie
10-09-2008, 03:10 PM
I concede...barring a dead girl or a live boy, Obama is going to win this election.

I agree, and thats why I was interested in your thread you started about Obama. Maybe Mosca, Tony, or Dan can really answer the question instead of being a kool aid drinking smart ass. One reason I was disappointed in last debate was the lack of substance. It did nothing for McCain. It seems McCain is getting blamed for economy, and that is the nail in the coffin I think. Unless the Bradley effect kicks in he is done. McCain didn't do enough to disassociate himself from Bush. I don't believe the economy is either candidates fault but McCain is the one suffering from it. Change, the key word winning the election for Obama is the word that scares me. What will Obama do. Socialized medicine? Amnesty for illegals, pull out of Iraq. The one thing I do like about Obama is he seems to want to focus on Afghanistan and get Osama. I can't believe he is not six feet under yet.

RunWillieRun
10-09-2008, 03:24 PM
I concede...barring a dead girl or a live boy, Obama is going to win this election.


:toofunny:

Now that's funny!

Preacher
10-09-2008, 03:24 PM
The one thing Obama needs to start thinking about now... and doing...

is pulling away from tagging McCain with the economy.

Why? you ask?

Because if this is true, and Obama has the election tied up, tagging McCain with the economy now may be the nail in Obama's political coffin 4 years from now, much like Carter.

There is no guarantee that Obama's policies will pull us out of where we are heading. Matter of fact, I think the scare factor has driven us here to a large extent.. but that is a debate for another thread.

If Obama does not back away, and the economy is worse in four years, he WILL lose based on the fact that he was not able to fix it. It will be Carter/Reagan all over again, provided the GOP can put up a decent candidate, and the GOP haven't been able to do that since Reagan.

Vis
10-09-2008, 03:28 PM
The one thing Obama needs to start thinking about now... and doing...

is pulling away from tagging McCain with the economy.

Why? you ask?

Because if this is true, and Obama has the election tied up, tagging McCain with the economy now may be the nail in Obama's political coffin 4 years from now, much like Carter.

There is no guarantee that Obama's policies will pull us out of where we are heading. Matter of fact, I think the scare factor has driven us here to a large extent.. but that is a debate for another thread.

If Obama does not back away, and the economy is worse in four years, he WILL lose based on the fact that he was not able to fix it. It will be Carter/Reagan all over again, provided the GOP can put up a decent candidate, and the GOP haven't been able to do that since Reagan.

That is true regardless of what he says. The President can't run from the economy ever.

HometownGal
10-09-2008, 03:30 PM
I'm still not willing to concede anything because of my experiences with candidates who have done poorly in "polls" and aren't endorsed by the media and end up winning their elections.

If Obama would somehow pull this off, I won't wish any harm on him, but I will never accept him as President of the country I love so deeply. My conscience and moral standards won't permit me to do so, sorry.

Vis
10-09-2008, 03:32 PM
I'm still not willing to concede anything because of my experiences with candidates who have done poorly in "polls" and aren't endorsed by the media and end up winning their elections.

If Obama would somehow pull this off, I won't wish any harm on him, but I will never accept him as President of the country I love so deeply. My conscience and moral standards won't permit me to do so, sorry.


So, Canada? Australia? Iceland's not bad if you don't use ATMs anyway.

Preacher
10-09-2008, 03:33 PM
[That is true regardless of what he says. The President can't run from the economy ever.


Which is a big problem in the US economy and presidential politics.

In truth, the economy usually lags years behind presidential decisions, and there are few things a president can really do to affect the economy.

Cut or raise taxes is about the only thing (outside of lunacy, such as Nixon's price controls, or socializing medicine). And honestly, it is minimal. One thing I appreciated about president Bush when he was running for office in 2000, was that he refused to pin the recession on Clinton (back then, it was about the only thing I appreciated about Bush, except his stand on abortion).

But presidential politics being what they are, in 4 years, the economy will get pinned on the president, good or bad.


For example, Do you remember Nixon and price controls? His price controls were about 50-60 percent of the problem in Carter's administration... Inflation ran rampant partly, in my opinion, because it had to make up ground.

Yet, Carter got blamed for everything.

That is why blaming a president for the economy in his 4 or 8 years is erroneous at best.

Atlanta Dan
10-09-2008, 03:36 PM
I agree, and thats why I was interested in your thread you started about Obama. Maybe Mosca, Tony, or Dan can really answer the question instead of being a kool aid drinking smart ass. One reason I was disappointed in last debate was the lack of substance. It did nothing for McCain. It seems McCain is getting blamed for economy, and that is the nail in the coffin I think. Unless the Bradley effect kicks in he is done. McCain didn't do enough to disassociate himself from Bush. I don't believe the economy is either candidates fault but McCain is the one suffering from it. Change, the key word winning the election for Obama is the word that scares me. What will Obama do. Socialized medicine? Amnesty for illegals, pull out of Iraq. The one thing I do like about Obama is he seems to want to focus on Afghanistan and get Osama. I can't believe he is not six feet under yet.

As I stated in the thread to which you refer, I plan to answer rev but his inquiry merits a serious answer when I have a little time to respond in more detai.

Just to clarify, are you contending I have been a Kool Aid drinking smart ass? As you might imagine, I will soldier on as best i can if that is your opinion, but want to confirm if that is what you intended to state when you referred to Tom, Tony & yours truly in the quoted post.

Preacher
10-09-2008, 03:40 PM
Cuban...

In all fairness, many of us, you and me included, have been partisan smart alecs in these threads... Dan, Tony, Me, you,

However, trust Dan when he says he will take time and critically answer the questions.

He and I have had some heated words of late... but trust me, he will be good to his word and answer the questions fairly and honestly.

HometownGal
10-09-2008, 03:46 PM
So, Canada? Australia? Iceland's not bad if you don't use ATMs anyway.

I am Canadian by birth, so that would have been the likely choice if I didn't love America so much. Y'know it is possible to not support a leader but still love your country. :doh: I'm still believing in the McCain/Palin ticket and if they do pull out a victory on election day, it will be doubly sweet because it will knock you smart-assed, arrogant Demos down off of your high horses.

Preacher
10-09-2008, 03:56 PM
I am Canadian by birth, so that would have been the likely choice if I didn't love America so much. Y'know it is possible to not support a leader but still love your country. :doh: I'm still believing in the McCain/Palin ticket and if they do pull out a victory on election day, it will be doubly sweet because it will knock you smart-assed, arrogant Demos down off of your high horses.

I didn't know that!!!

That explains it ALL!!!

:rofl:

My mother is from Canada, I spent many a summer, Christmas, and weekend up there either visiting relatives, or playing hockey!

No wonder you're a hockey nut!

cubanstogie
10-09-2008, 04:36 PM
As I stated in the thread to which you refer, I plan to answer rev but his inquiry merits a serious answer when I have a little time to respond in more detai.

Just to clarify, are you contending I have been a Kool Aid drinking smart ass? As you might imagine, I will soldier on as best i can if that is your opinion, but want to confirm if that is what you intended to state when you referred to Tom, Tony & yours truly in the quoted post.
No I am not implying that at all. It appeared to be that Revs was not getting any kind of response he was looking for. I was actually giving you, tony, and mosca credit because I thought you 3 would have the most well informed, thought out , and credible posts regarding Obama. And since it really does appear to be over for McCain I was hoping for some postive reinforcement for Obama and not some rhetoric given my kool aid drinkers.

cubanstogie
10-09-2008, 04:40 PM
Cuban...

In all fairness, many of us, you and me included, have been partisan smart alecs in these threads... Dan, Tony, Me, you,

However, trust Dan when he says he will take time and critically answer the questions.

He and I have had some heated words of late... but trust me, he will be good to his word and answer the questions fairly and honestly.

it must have come across differently than I intended. Read prior post by me and it should clear it up.
I agree about smart alec part as well, but suddenly I have an urge to be open minded. Maybe because in 4 weeks I have no choice (to be open minded).

Atlanta Dan
10-09-2008, 04:49 PM
The one thing Obama needs to start thinking about now... and doing...

is pulling away from tagging McCain with the economy.

Why? you ask?

Because if this is true, and Obama has the election tied up, tagging McCain with the economy now may be the nail in Obama's political coffin 4 years from now, much like Carter.

There is no guarantee that Obama's policies will pull us out of where we are heading. Matter of fact, I think the scare factor has driven us here to a large extent.. but that is a debate for another thread.

If Obama does not back away, and the economy is worse in four years, he WILL lose based on the fact that he was not able to fix it. It will be Carter/Reagan all over again, provided the GOP can put up a decent candidate, and the GOP haven't been able to do that since Reagan.

Several points - this election camapign is nowhere near over; the polls will tighten and Obama has not come close to locking up Florida, Ohio, or othe swing states such as Virginai, NC, or colorado.

Second, IMO Obama needs to be and is focused solely on winning this election; if the economy is still screwed in 4 years whomever wins this time is roadkill in 2012no matter what issues they run on from here on out.

In addition, that is like pulling your starters in the Super Bowl when you are ahead in order to avoid having them injured and not at full strength for next year's Super Bowl. You win this one and try to win the next one when that time comes around, given all that can happen between now and then.

:drink:

Atlanta Dan
10-09-2008, 04:51 PM
No I am not implying that at all. It appeared to be that Revs was not getting any kind of response he was looking for. I was actually giving you, tony, and mosca credit because I thought you 3 would have the most well informed, thought out , and credible posts regarding Obama. And since it really does appear to be over for McCain I was hoping for some postive reinforcement for Obama and not some rhetoric given my kool aid drinkers.

I said to rev this morning i would reply

tony hipchest
10-09-2008, 05:06 PM
I agree, and thats why I was interested in your thread you started about Obama. Maybe Mosca, Tony, or Dan can really answer the question instead of being a kool aid drinking smart ass. One reason I was disappointed in last debate was the lack of substance. It did nothing for McCain. It seems McCain is getting blamed for economy, and that is the nail in the coffin I think. .and theres new ammo obama hasnt even used yet (probably wont need to)-

States That Can't Pay for Themselves

http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/article/105909/States-That-Can%27t-Pay-for-Themselves

Arizona
Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 19.9%
Gap: $2 billion

Arizona was hit hard by the subprime crisis, and its economy has slowed significantly since mid-2006. Lawmakers, who had to make up a $2 billion budget shortfall for fiscal 2009, reduced the Medicaid rolls, put a freeze on hiring, and cut funding for community health centers and state universities.

arizona has the 2nd worst budget gap behind california. granted mccain isnt the gov. but obama could always say they would be #1 if he were.

SCSTILLER
10-09-2008, 05:26 PM
Just to throw my two cents in, while I still have money to throw in. The economy is not looking good, we all kinow that, but a quote that Obama said really scares the crap out of me. He stated (not in these exact words) "If the economy keeps going the way it is, I will have to put my tax plan on hold." Now, is he stating that his tax plan will not be good for the economy, because that is how I heard it. As a candidate, your tax and economic plan should be good for the economy no matter the economic state of our country.

augustashark
10-09-2008, 10:46 PM
and theres new ammo obama hasnt even used yet (probably wont need to)-

States That Can't Pay for Themselves

http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/article/105909/States-That-Can%27t-Pay-for-Themselves



arizona has the 2nd worst budget gap behind california. granted mccain isnt the gov. but obama could always say they would be #1 if he were.

Maybe the dumbest post Ive seen in a while. Ammo! this would not even leave a flesh wound. I read this story earlier today and I swear I told myself that Tony would be bringing this up on SF.:rofl:

Just for that I will lay money on every football game this weekend, I'm hot.

Preacher
10-09-2008, 10:50 PM
and theres new ammo obama hasnt even used yet (probably wont need to)-

States That Can't Pay for Themselves

http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/article/105909/States-That-Can%27t-Pay-for-Themselves



arizona has the 2nd worst budget gap behind california. granted mccain isnt the gov. but obama could always say they would be #1 if he were.

Uh Hum...

And the governor is a.......... DEMOCRAT.

tony hipchest
10-09-2008, 10:52 PM
Maybe the dumbest post Ive seen in a while. Ammo! this would not even leave a flesh wound. I read this story earlier today and I swear I told myself that Tony would be bringing this up on SF.:rofl:

Just for that I will lay money on every football game this weekend, I'm hot.you actually read something? i woulda never bet on that. looks like im keeping my money in my pocket this weekend.

steelwall
10-09-2008, 10:55 PM
you actually read something? i woulda never bet on that. looks like im keeping my money in my pocket this weekend.

Toney..... I'm wondering what you will post or talk about after this election... Good question..no?

tony hipchest
10-09-2008, 10:56 PM
Uh Hum...

And the governor is a.......... DEMOCRAT.i know that. but its a bit besides the point which is the people feeling obama is much more capable of handling the economy.

its not just arizona. our nation is in debt.

and the president is a............ REPUBLICAN.

augustashark
10-09-2008, 10:58 PM
I personally think that the below article is alot closer to where we are then all the doom and gloom I'm starting to hear.

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1124117&srvc=2008campaign&position=8

tony hipchest
10-09-2008, 11:01 PM
Toney..... I'm wondering what you will post or talk about after this election... Good question..no?i was hoping some bunglefans would come skulking around the blast furnace this week but no such luck....

the election is like the olympics coming around just once every 4 years. but after november, i will have to turn my focus to the steelers superbowl .:tt03:

Preacher
10-09-2008, 11:02 PM
i know that. but its a bit besides the point which is the people feeling obama is much more capable of handling the economy.

its not just arizona. our nation is in debt.

and the president is a............ REPUBLICAN.


:rofl:

I hope the elections come soon for your sake...


The democrat governor is not responsible for the state's money, but Obama can convince people McCain is?

Tony, please, come back to reality... either it is your hatred of Palin, or your hatred of the GOP... but honestly, lucid posting is starting to escape you.

Preacher
10-09-2008, 11:04 PM
I personally think that the below article is alot closer to where we are then all the doom and gloom I'm starting to hear.

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1124117&srvc=2008campaign&position=8


Duck and run...

How DARE you challenge Obama's ascendancy!

You must be a white, rich, racist piece of trash! Can't you see how coded that article is with racism! McCain must call it off....NOW. Dang it. Just HAND the election to Obama. And do NOT regard ANYTHING in history. How DARE you do that too! Don't you know that was a piece of right wing, bourgeoisie, "real word hard working people hating" trash?

Now I have spoken.

(Sorry, I was channeling some democrats...and posters on this board).

augustashark
10-09-2008, 11:05 PM
Just to throw my two cents in, while I still have money to throw in. The economy is not looking good, we all kinow that, but a quote that Obama said really scares the crap out of me. He stated (not in these exact words) "If the economy keeps going the way it is, I will have to put my tax plan on hold." Now, is he stating that his tax plan will not be good for the economy, because that is how I heard it. As a candidate, your tax and economic plan should be good for the economy no matter the economic state of our country.

Excellent post, and you are right. If you have a view for the county when it comes to economics then it should really matter/make sense when times are tough not when times are good. So he's saying that his plan (that he's been pushing for months) is only good for america when times are good? Geesh, under those terms hipchest could become POTUS.

tony hipchest
10-09-2008, 11:11 PM
I personally think that the below article is alot closer to where we are then all the doom and gloom I'm starting to hear.

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1124117&srvc=2008campaign&position=8good work augusta-

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/0a2c70dd50_ltpMcCainthumbs100908.jpg

Obama is winning 84 percent of the Democratic Party support and McCain has 85 percent of the GOP support, but Obama has the edge among sought-after Independent voters.

He leads McCain among independents, 48 percent to 39 percent, according to the poll.

Obama also has support from a slightly higher percent of conservative voters than McCain gets from liberal voters, but the advantage is small, according to the poll.

Pollsters surveyed 1,220 likely voters and asked approximately 39 questions. The margin of error is plus or minus 2.9 percentage points.


:sofunny::sofunny::sofunny:

augustashark
10-09-2008, 11:15 PM
Nice mascot tony. :toofunny:


DjBNHOF7j8M

Keep up the good work dems!:laughing:

tony hipchest
10-09-2008, 11:19 PM
:rofl:
The democrat governor is not responsible for the state's money, but Obama can convince people McCain is?

back to reality....silly me. :doh: youre right. that would be about as crazy as mccain insinuating obama is a radical muslim terrorist. :rolleyes:

(sarcasm smiley anyone?)

:wink02: :wave:

since obama isnt on a sinking ship, dont expect ANY of this type of diatribe.

next up for the mccain camp? reverend do wright. :yawn:

:coffee:

augustashark
10-09-2008, 11:22 PM
Be honest tony, what are you and the rest of the dems going to do if the O does'nt win? I mean think about it, back in 2004 there were people saying if Kerry did'nt win then they can never win! I mean think about it, will we have mass riots? another civil war? You guys have went "ALL IN"! It would be so damn funny if McCain pulls this off, which I think he will. I still can't believe that a man can become president by running on one platform.

tony hipchest
10-09-2008, 11:23 PM
Nice mascot tony. :toofunny:


:

:huh: thats all you got?

nice avy Jumpingthe shark. :noidea:

augustashark
10-09-2008, 11:23 PM
silly me. :doh: youre right. that would be about as crazy as mccain insinuating obama is a radical muslim terrorist. :rolleyes:

(sarcasm smiley anyone?)

:wink02: :wave:

since obama isnt on a sinking ship, dont expect ANY of this type of diatribe.

next up for the mccain camp? reverend do wright. :yawn:

:coffee:

:link:

I want proof that McCain has said this? Put it up!

tony hipchest
10-09-2008, 11:36 PM
Be honest tony, what are you and the rest of the dems going to do if the O does'nt win? I mean think about it, back in 2004 there were people saying if Kerry did'nt win then they can never win! I mean think about it, will we have mass riots? another civil war? You guys have went "ALL IN"! It would be so damn funny if McCain pulls this off, which I think he will. I still can't believe that a man can become president by running on one platform.
i wont freak out. :noidea:

its a "glass half empty/full" sorta thing.

while most are looking at this as the "lesser of 2 evils" election, i try to keep some perspective and try to think of it as the "greater of 2 goods".

(sorry revs, i meant to put this in your thread "?'s to the left".)

i am an american first and foremost, not some radical hate monger (despite what revs and preach are clinging to) like what i have recently seen from the right.

what i will most certainly do if mccain pulls this off is pray like hell for mccains good health. i will also suggest he bring bill richardson into his cabinet in some form to give his ticket some legitimacy, credence, and weight to him being a "maverick" who is willing to reach across the aisle.

tony hipchest
10-09-2008, 11:43 PM
:link:

I want proof that McCain has said this? Put it up!ok. i will put it up as soon as you prove you know what the difference is between "saying" and "insinuating" is. :noidea:

and this is really no accusation of mccain the man himself.

i am well on record for several months that his campaign and advisors have led him astray.

this mess isnt necessarilly all mccains fault other than accepting/approving of some horrible guidance and advice.

Preacher
10-10-2008, 12:13 AM
silly me. :doh: youre right. that would be about as crazy as mccain insinuating obama is a radical muslim terrorist. :rolleyes:

(sarcasm smiley anyone?)

:wink02: :wave:

since obama isnt on a sinking ship, dont expect ANY of this type of diatribe.

next up for the mccain camp? reverend do wright. :yawn:

:coffee:

Never heard him insinuate he was a radical MUSLIM terrorist.

I did here him say that Obama WAS in ASSOCIATION with RADICAL AMERICAN TERRORISTS...

The only thing you can do to spin out of that is... what... throw more on McCain?

Sorry Tony, but someplace, the truth has to shine, even to your dismay.

tony hipchest
10-10-2008, 12:29 AM
:rofl:

The democrat governor is not responsible for the state's money, but Obama can convince people McCain is?

. c'mon preach...

anyone who has 2 braincells to rub together can see the blatant false misrepresentaion of your comments in relation to mine-

granted mccain isnt the gov. but obama could always say they would be #1 if he were.

my statement was said first and NOT a response to youre diatribe.

this is why civil debates is almost impossible with you guys. anytime on the ropes (which doesnt signify defeat) the cries of "terrorist" & "hussein" become louder and louder.

its par for the course though, i guess. according to the GOP mccain has an africain american child born out of wedlock.... :noidea: so nuthin should suprise me here.

Preacher
10-10-2008, 12:38 AM
c'mon preach...

anyone who has 2 braincells to rub together can see the blatant false misrepresentaion of your comments in relation to mine-

my statement was said first and NOT a response to youre diatribe.

this is why civil debates is almost impossible with you guys. anytime on the ropes (which doesnt signify defeat) the cries of "terrorist" & "hussein" become louder and louder.

its par for the course though, i guess. according to the GOP mccain has an africain american child born out of wedlock.... :noidea: so nuthin should suprise me here.

Sorry, but you were the first to cast that stone, a few months ago...
Um... do you remember Palin? Yeah, civil debate my rear-end.

tony hipchest
10-10-2008, 12:44 AM
I did here him say that Obama WAS in ASSOCIATION with RADICAL AMERICAN TERRORISTS...

The only thing you can do to spin out of that is... what... throw more on McCain?

Sorry Tony, but someplace, the truth has to shine, even to your dismay.if said terrorist was so bad why wasnt he in jail, and allowed to become a professor?

and if you are so cencerned, i would love to hear your viewpoints of palin being associated with those who want to secede from the united states of america.

*awaits revs chiming in to say that since palin is just a veep it makes her less of a hypocrite*

point is, in order to win the presidential election, one must be willing to represent the majority of americans and win the majority of their votes.

it seems that the majority of americans arent even concerned with obamas associations as they arent palins (or mccains for that matter).

so tell me.... why is it so important to you? what influence do you feel this terrorist has on obama?

tony hipchest
10-10-2008, 12:47 AM
Sorry, but you were the first to cast that stone, a few months ago...
Um... do you remember Palin? Yeah, civil debate my rear-end.
wasnt obama's wailing wall prayer started before palin was even selected as veep?

augustashark
10-10-2008, 12:51 AM
Never heard him insinuate he was a radical MUSLIM terrorist.

I did here him say that Obama WAS in ASSOCIATION with RADICAL AMERICAN TERRORISTS...

The only thing you can do to spin out of that is... what... throw more on McCain?

Sorry Tony, but someplace, the truth has to shine, even to your dismay.

Thanks preach, I thought my post was clear, but I guess it was not.

McCain has never not one time insinuated that O is a muslim terrorist. That's what the dems do though, they just put lies out there and if it's out there long enough then people will start to believe them.

Preacher
10-10-2008, 01:06 AM
wasnt obama's wailing wall prayer started before palin was even selected as veep?

Seems to me we had a civil debate... I simply questioned how much politics were involved...

You're reaching for straws now.

Vis
10-10-2008, 06:41 AM
Thanks preach, I thought my post was clear, but I guess it was not.

McCain has never not one time insinuated that O is a muslim terrorist. .

Will a search of this site find posts that do accuse Obama of being Muslim? Radical? A terrorist? A Manchurian candidate?

Just askin'

revefsreleets
10-10-2008, 08:21 AM
Here is WHY Obama will win in November. Americans are lazy. They are not as sharp as they once were. They want to drink their Pabst Blue Ribbon and watch American Idol and have people tell them what to think. And Obama is doing that now. His ads are wallpapering the airwaves here in Ohio (his clear advantage from foregoing public funds is showing), and they are getting worse by the day. The local news is doing fact-checking on these ads, and there was a healthcare "smear ad" aimed at McCains healthcare plan that didn't contain a single fact. The whole ad was one big lie. Now, if the people in Ohio continue to hear nothing but Obama ads smearing McCain, and since it's clear that the truth is no longer a concern at all as far as what Obama will say to get elected, how could the election turn out any differently than a big win for Obama?

We see it here. There are otherwise intelligent people who have forgone critical thinking completely and simply resorted to attacking the opposition and anyone who represents them, while defending their own parties candidate at any cost. They can't say anything good about the opposition, and can't say anything bad about their own parties candidate. That demonstrates an acute lack of critical thinking. That's why I stopped and thought about this and changed my whole POV on this. I'm sick and tired of getting caught up in arguments between people who have already decided. They don't matter. My vote will cancel one of theirs out, and that's that. The undecided voters will win this election for Obama, and they'll do it based on much simpler things than any of us are arguing about. Obama is not GW, and McCain is unable to distance himself far enough from GW. Hell, I bet 85% of the Democrats on here actually BELIEVE that McCain = W III. I'm not going to get into where those mistaken ideas come from, but the fact is, all Obama has to do now is not be W, and he's succeeding.

So all this bickering back and forth becomes meaningless. The relatively clueless ham-n-egger indecided voter doesn't know who Ayers is, he doesn't know who the weathermen were. He doesn't care about things that happened in the 60's. He doesn't understand the economy, and he's tired of hearing about Iraq. He wants something different, ANYTHING different, and Obama is doing a good enough job convincing people that he's that to win.

Michael Keller
10-10-2008, 08:42 AM
I'm still not willing to concede anything because of my experiences with candidates who have done poorly in "polls" and aren't endorsed by the media and end up winning their elections.

If Obama would somehow pull this off, I won't wish any harm on him, but I will never accept him as President of the country I love so deeply. My conscience and moral standards won't permit me to do so, sorry.

HTG

I share both of your points.

#1- I do not necessarily believe Oboma is going to win because of the polls.

#2-It will be extremely hard to accept Oboma as our President but I will. It is extremely hard to accept George W Bush as our President. Absolutely terrible leader. In my mind the biggest reason for a possible Oboma Presidency. We do have a congress which may stem his drive for socialism . Interesting Reagon helps defeat Communism so we can have the freedom to choose Socialism. No help however from the greedy Capitalists. What a mess!!

The greatest cosolation I am taking out of this race is that Oboma or any Democrat
should win this election by a landslide . It should not even be close. But it is which means there is something good out there in main stream. If Oboma wins I like his chances of being a one term President but the question is how much "damage " will be done?

Well I am getting to the age, ( why did I have to wait?) where I AM ENTITLED, so perhaps I will sit back and relax and see what the other half lives like. LOL Oh thats not so funny I forgot "who is going to pay my way while I AM ENTITLED?