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Vis
10-17-2008, 01:33 PM
Do they matter?

If Colin Powell endorses Obama this week, will it have any influence?

revefsreleets
10-17-2008, 01:46 PM
I think they matter a lot for people who need their mind made up for them. If they didn't matter, companies wouldn't pay multiple millions for them for advertising campaigns.

Just as an aside, this reminds me of a fallacious ad I've been seeing a lot of lately: The HH Gregg ad with Peyton manning saying that if a sporting event is FILMED on a Sony HD camera, shouldn't it be WATCHED on a Sony HD TV?

Huh?

That's like saying a car runs better in the state it was made.

Vis
10-17-2008, 01:51 PM
It's hard for me to understand what the undecideds are waiting for.

So, if any undecideds are reading this, just vote for Obama. You know you want to.

SCSTILLER
10-17-2008, 02:55 PM
Vis, if you are in SC (South Carolina) you surely are outnumbered down here considering you seem to support Obama.

Vis
10-17-2008, 03:32 PM
Vis, if you are in SC (South Carolina) you surely are outnumbered down here considering you seem to support Obama.

That I am. Especially in Greenville. I should be in that liberal citadel, Charleston.

stlrtruck
10-17-2008, 04:19 PM
I just laugh when such-n-such an actor/actress pops up on the screen and says, "I endorse so-n-so and you should too!"

Thanks but no-thanks, I think I can handle my own responsibility of voting.

NJarhead
10-17-2008, 04:27 PM
Do they matter?

If Colin Powell endorses Obama this week, will it have any influence?

WOW. I would have to say that this particular endorsement could have a big impact. :doh:

tony hipchest
10-19-2008, 12:49 PM
so did anyone catch powell on "meet the press" endorse obama?

good stuff. ive always thought powell was a wise and honorable man, and it seemed to pain him to say he wouldnt be voting for mccain. however he gave good reasons for why he wasnt and good reasons for why he would vote obama.

i think if anyone ever asks me to justify my vote i could just link them to the transcript. he summed up everything nicely in a nutshell.

he will not be campaigning and is not looking forward to getting a call for a cabinet spot.

HOWEVER, he did say, whoever was elected, if he got a call he would have to consider it (as if it were his duty as an american).

"when the president calls you have to listen".

GBMelBlount
10-19-2008, 12:53 PM
It's hard for me to understand what the undecideds are waiting for.

So, if any undecideds are reading this, just vote for Obama. You know you want to.


They probably will vote Obama imo. They often have no strong convictions, and to the casual observer, the things that Obama promises sounds more appealing.....

SCSTILLER
10-20-2008, 09:34 AM
That I am. Especially in Greenville. I should be in that liberal citadel, Charleston.

Yeah, I am outnumbered down here in Liberal Charleston. It is not that bad, even though I got some dirty looks in the Natural Foods store for wearing my McCain shirt, thought they were going to start pelting me with eggs.

Heck, you should move up to Asheville, I was there a few weeks ago and didn't see a single McCain/Palin anything, but every lamp post, car, house, dog, cat, etc. had an Obama sticker or something on it.

Leftoverhard
10-20-2008, 11:11 AM
The Colin Powell endorsement is very good. Hopefully undecided voters will figure it out now. I don't think all undecideds are just casual observers - I think if they're planning on voting, they're doing their research until the very end; pretty smart if you don't understand the candidates very well.

revefsreleets
10-20-2008, 11:22 AM
The Colin Powell endorsement is very good. Hopefully undecided voters will figure it out now. I don't think all undecideds are just casual observers - I think if they're planning on voting, they're doing their research until the very end; pretty smart if you don't understand the candidates very well.

The LAST thing you want is undecideds researching why Powell is voting for Obama.

It's payback for Bush leaving him out to dry. It's SO less an endorsement of Obama as it brushback against McCain as Bush proxy.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-20-2008, 11:40 AM
The LAST thing you want is undecideds researching why Powell is voting for Obama.
It's payback for Bush leaving him out to dry. It's SO less an endorsement of Obama as it brushback against McCain as Bush proxy.

In my opinion....At this point...Any research involving Obama does more to hurt the left than it does the right

GBMelBlount
10-20-2008, 12:30 PM
The LAST thing you want is undecideds researching why Powell is voting for Obama.

It's payback for Bush leaving him out to dry. It's SO less an endorsement of Obama as it brushback against McCain as Bush proxy.

Exactly. And if you look at Powell's reasoning, it sounds EXACTLY like what the average Obama supporter gives as their reasons:

Powell, who in the past was mentioned as possibly the first black U.S. president, told NBC's "Meet the Press" he backed Obama "because of his ability to inspire, because of the inclusive nature of his campaign, because he's reaching out all across America, because of who he is."

"I think he is a transformational figure," Powell said of the man who could become the first black president. "His is a new generation coming ... onto the world stage, American stage."

Ability to inspire?
A trillion in new taxes, is that inspiring? It makes no economic sense.

Inclusive nature?
He is going to tax the hell out of those that create the majority of jobs and wealth in this country. It's not inclusive, it's wealth redistribution. It makes no economic sense.

Transformation figure?
He's transforming us into little Russia. His whole campaign is based on demonizing capitalism as the creator of the class of less fortunate and he promises to take more from those who have earned it and give it to the "less fortunate" they apparently stole it from and are more deserving.

All style and no substance. So yes, to the casual observer who claims to be "undecided" but who knows inside they are probably voting for Obama, Powells meaningless drivel is exactly what they were looking for.

I'm sorry, but I just lost a lot of respect for Colon Powell.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081020/pl_nm/us_usa_politics

SCSTILLER
10-20-2008, 01:06 PM
"Inclusive nature?
He is going to tax the hell out of those that create the majority of jobs and wealth in this country. It's not inclusive, it's wealth redistribution. It makes no economic sense."

reminds me of a lyric I heard in, I think it was Bob Dillon, a song. "Tax the rich, feed the poor, till there are no rich no more." Problem, who is going to feed the poor when everyone is poor. That is where Obama seems to want to take us.

As for the Powell endorsement, it made Powell look like an idiot in my mind. Powell is known as a die hard republican, military strategist, and a fiscal conservative. Now, he is going against everything that he "supposedly" stands for. I have to agree that this is an "eff u bush" endorsement. Sad that it comes to that.

Leftoverhard
10-20-2008, 01:22 PM
"Tax the rich, feed the poor, till there are no rich no more." Problem, who is going to feed the poor when everyone is poor. That is where Obama seems to want to take us.


Pessimistic, eh? The line "till there are no rich no more" is more indicative of how everyone would be more equal - like more middle class. That's a very simplified way of looking at that. Really? You think that's where Obama wants to take us? The balance has shifted towards The rich in this country having the most power and that needs to be changed. The opposite of that is not "everyone is poor." How do you get that?
Why not just talk about why you love your candidate instead of defending why you aren't voting for Obama. I think I'd be safe to say that no one on the left needs you to do that. Just go ahead and vote for McCain, please.

Anyway, the song is by Ten Years After, not Dylan.

Hammer Of The GODS
10-20-2008, 02:28 PM
I'm sorry, but I just lost a lot of respect for Colon Powell.



Me too.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-20-2008, 02:46 PM
The balance has shifted towards The rich in this country having the most power and that needs to be changed.

Do you believe that power should be changed by wealth redistrubution?

fansince'76
10-20-2008, 03:01 PM
reminds me of a lyric I heard in, I think it was Bob Dillon, a song. "Tax the rich, feed the poor, till there are no rich no more."

Actually, the song is I'd Love to Change the World by Ten Years After. Great tune. :thumbsup:

SCSTILLER
10-20-2008, 03:25 PM
Do you believe that power should be changed by wealth redistrubution?

Nope! Punishing success and rewarding laziness, that is a great policy. Right now, 33 million people do not pay taxes, under Obama's plan 47 million people will not be paying taxes. Difference is, they will now be getting "rewarded" for not paying taxes.

Leftoverhard, I am middle class! Actually, lower middle class. I live paycheck to paycheck, put a little into retirement, and live a good life. For some reason this so called WAR on the middle class hasn't attacked me yet. I don't like the fact that if I work my arse off to make more money then I get to Obama's magic number, I will be giving my hard earned work ($$$) to someone else. How is that Capitalism, how is that American? Answer that one. An honest days pay for an honest days work, not sit on your butt and let the big ole' government take care of me.

As for voting for McCain, already sent in my ballot with his name checked, thanks for your permission though :flap:. I am voting for McCain because I beleive he has a better understanding of the enemy that we are up against! Yes, we are still at war with people who are willing to blow themselves up to kill us. They want us all dead, and are willing to do anything to accomplish that. You want to sit around the campfire and sing and hold hands with these people, they will pull the string on their vest and there will be a really big campfire. Sorry, we are at war, and Obama has no clue. Lets talk to them, lets set a date for defeat, lets just roll over and throw up the white flag. Sorry, i have been to Iraq several times, and I am not willing to concede defeat like Obama wants us to do . We are winning over there, but Obama will never admit that! Plus, taxing the rich and small business owner stunts economic growth. Why did Obama state that "if the economy keeps on the path it is going, I will have to hold off on my tax plan"? Hmmm, is that because it could be bad for the economy?

Thanks for correcting me on the song everyone, like I said, didn't know who sang it!

Leftoverhard
10-20-2008, 03:39 PM
You want to sit around the campfire and sing and hold hands with these people, they will pull the string on their vest and there will be a really big campfire.

You forgot to add "drinking a cup of tea." I personally (and obviously) love drinking tea while singing around the campfire with terrorists. Ugh.

revefsreleets
10-20-2008, 05:22 PM
Speaking of endorsements, some surprising one's came out. Washington Post I thought would go with McCain, but they went with Obama. What's up with the Boston Herald picking McCain? Don't they know Boston is "East Coast Elite"?

My local liberal rag, as predicted, picked Obama.

stlrtruck
10-21-2008, 09:17 AM
And it all means nothing to those who have decided their vote or are researching their own criteria for choosing a candidate.

I guess to some it matters what their favorite actor, actress, athlete, team owner, etc are endorsing.

revefsreleets
10-21-2008, 06:00 PM
Since Powell's endorsement seems to carry inordinate weight, here's what John McCain had to say...

“I’ve always admired and respected General Powell, we’re long time friends,” McCain said, appearing in Ohio. “This doesn’t come as a surprise but I’m also very pleased to have the endorsement of four secretaries of state, Secretaries Kissinger, Baker, Eagleburger and Haig, and I’m proud to have the endorsement of well over 200 retired generals and admirals. I respect and continue to admire Secretary Powell.”


http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/10/powell_endorses_obama.html

tony hipchest
10-21-2008, 06:04 PM
just 200 or so?

classy move by mccain. i wouldnt expect anything less.

any truth to palin calling powell a "washed up douchebag"? :laughing:

Preacher
10-21-2008, 06:11 PM
just 200 or so?

classy move by mccain. i wouldnt expect anything less.

any truth to palin calling powell a "washed up douchebag"? :laughing:

About as much truth as Obama being ready to be president... or at least according to his VP! :laughing:

tony hipchest
10-24-2008, 09:18 PM
i know so many others fancy themselves as the most important "thinkers" in the united states but heres one that actually counts and carrys some weight-

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/10/24/reagan-appointee-and-recent-mccain-adviser-charles-fried-supports-obama.aspx

Reagan Appointee and (Recent) McCain Adviser Charles Fried Supports Obama


Charles Fried, a professor at Harvard Law School, has long been one of the most important conservative thinkers in the United States. Under President Reagan, he served, with great distinction, as Solicitor General of the United States. Since then, he has been prominently associated with several Republican leaders and candidates, most recently John McCain, for whom he expressed his enthusiastic support in January.

This week, Fried announced that he has voted for Obama-Biden by absentee ballot. In his letter to Trevor Potter, the General Counsel to the McCain-Palin campaign, he asked that his name be removed from the several campaign-related committees on which he serves. In that letter, he said that chief among the reasons for his decision "is the choice of Sarah Palin at a time of deep national crisis."
Fried is exceptionally thoughtful and principled; his vote for Obama is especially noteworthy.

--Cass. R. Sunstein

UPDATE: Fried writes to TNR: I admire Senator McCain and was glad to help in his campaign, and to be listed as doing so; but when I concluded that I must vote for Obama for the reason stated in my letter, I felt it wrong to appear to be recommending to others a vote that I was not prepared to cast myself. So it was more of an erasure than a public affirmation--although obviously my vote meant that I thought that Obama was preferable to McCain-Palin. I do not consider abstention a proper option.


i guess he "hates" sarah too.

must be a case of "sour grapes" built in there somewhere.

:laughing:

Vis
10-25-2008, 07:03 AM
The anti intellectual, religious right love Sarah and the fiscal conservative, blue blood, old guard, think tank republicans don't

revefsreleets
10-25-2008, 05:24 PM
Actually, notice how Fried manages to endorse Obama and show his concern for the Palin pick with out using fabricated stories? Unsubstantiated rumors? Hateful rhetoric? Entertainment Tonight-type anecdotes? Fantastical leaps of "logic"?

BritishSteel
10-25-2008, 06:44 PM
As for voting for McCain, already sent in my ballot with his name checked, thanks for your permission though :flap:. I am voting for McCain because I beleive he has a better understanding of the enemy that we are up against! Yes, we are still at war with people who are willing to blow themselves up to kill us. They want us all dead, and are willing to do anything to accomplish that. You want to sit around the campfire and sing and hold hands with these people, they will pull the string on their vest and there will be a really big campfire. Sorry, we are at war, and Obama has no clue. Lets talk to them, lets set a date for defeat, lets just roll over and throw up the white flag. Sorry, i have been to Iraq several times, and I am not willing to concede defeat like Obama wants us to do . We are winning over there, but Obama will never admit that!

He's not the only one.

I been to Iraq three times since 2006 and Afghanistan a couple of times too, and I'd say we've done a remarkable job in both places given the circumstances (and when I say we, I mean the colition, being a Brit and all that :wink02:), but I'm not sure I'd categorise it as winning - the bloodshed has fallen from levels which were outrageous to merely upsetting, but Iraq as a nation doesn't exist - It's greater Kurdistan in the north and a shia enclave in the south - they're sharing power now, but I didn't speak to a single British commanding officer in Basra who believed the country had a future - how could it, as a nation state it has no past - it was created in 1921 by the British and has been at war with someone (usually itself) ever since.

We are at war, but I doubt it's a war military means alone can win - Hannibal couldn't, Genghis Khan, couldn't, The British couldn't and nor could The Russians. If McCain's idea is to throw more troops at it, then I'm not sure he has any more of a clue than Obama.

For what it's worth, we have a moral obligation to see Iraq through to the end, whatever that end is - I literally have no clue about how Afghanistan ends - experience and history suggests it won't ever stop being a war zone whether we're there or not. One thing's for sure, unless we're prepared to invade Lebanon, The Yemen, Jordan, Egypt, Iran, Indonesia, Somalia, Syria. Kazahkstan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, hell even Israel, then the military alone will never do it. You can't sit down with Al Qaeda, but you can sit down with the nations that support them and hammer out a deal - then military action might work. It's taken 5 years to semi-tame Iraq - how long would it take to do the same to Iran, or Kazahkstan or Indonesia?

All that said, I'm not sure what McCain's foreign policy position is - I'd be interested to know.