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MACH1
10-23-2008, 01:10 AM
Is Obama A Socialist?
By Henry Lamb
October 20, 2008

http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/guest/2008/hl_10202.shtml

Socialism, according to Karl Marx, is the transition between capitalism and communism. To achieve communism, Marx says, there must be continuing revolution in which the fundamental principal is: the end justifies the means.

For more than half a century, capitalism in the United States has taken a beating from the socialist revolution. Despite the best efforts of conservatives, since the Roosevelt era, socialists have made great strides toward converting the nation to socialism. Apparently, the majority of Americans either fail to recognize the transition, or welcome it. The enthusiastic support for Barack Obama, especially among young people, is abundant evidence.

Obama has declared that he believes every person has a "right" to health care. The Socialist Party USA believes every person has a "right" to health care.

Obama believes that labor unions should be allowed to organize without a secret ballot. The Socialist Party USA calls for unions to be recognized without a secret ballot. (Hear Obama's words here.)

The Socialist Party USA recognizes the "right" of adequate housing for everyone. Obama trained ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) workers to secure mortgages for unqualified people, in sufficient numbers to collapse the housing and home-financing industries.

The Socialist Party USA believes that "capitalism is fundamentally incompatible" with socialism. For years, Obama worked in Chicago through the Annenberg Challenge, along with Bill Ayers, to funnel more than $50 million to anti-capitalist education projects. In November, 2006, Ayers traveled to Venezuela to speak at Hugo Chavez's Education Forum where he railed against "the failings of capitalist education," and praised the "...Bolivarian Revolution and the profound reforms in education made by Hugo Chavez."

The Socialist Party USA believes in open borders and six months residency as the only requirement for U.S. citizenship. Obama marched with illegal aliens in Chicago in support of "comprehensive" immigration reform. Listen to Obama's promises to La Raza in 2007.

The Socialist Party USA calls for an immediate withdrawal from Iraq. Obama says "I will end this war," with never a reference to "winning" or "victory."

The Socialist Party USA calls for the "unconditional disarmament" by the United States. Obama has promised to dramatically reduce defense spending. Listen to his words here.

The Socialist Party USA calls for a "livable guaranteed annual income." Obama trained ACORN members to conduct "Living Wage" campaigns in cities around the country.

The Socialist Party USA calls for a "steeply graduated" tax policy in order to redistribute wealth. Obama has promised to increase the tax burden on the rich in order to redistribute wealth to the poor. He revealed his philosophy when answering a question from a plumber who complained that he was being taxed for his success. Obama said: "It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success too. My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, It's gonna be good for everybody. I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

This list of comparisons could be quite long. This is sufficient to reveal an unmistakable similarity between Obama's political beliefs and the beliefs of the Socialist Party USA. The tragedy is that Obama's supporters don't care. In fact, many of his supporters are delighted that he promises to usher in a new era of socialism, and push the memory of capitalism further into history.

Socialists, who are in perpetual revolution, who believe that the end justifies the means, have worked through educational institutions, non-government organizations such as ACORN, and by electing socialists to public office, to silence teaching the virtues of free enterprise, capitalism, private property, individual responsibility, and personal achievement. For nearly two generations, students have been fed a steady diet of socialism under a variety of disguises including Outcome Based Education, No Child Left Behind, School-to-Work, and a host of other "feel good" slogans.

Students and young adults no longer know why capitalism is better than socialism. Like Obama, young people really believe that when government redistributes wealth, "it's good for everybody." They do not realize that wealth redistribution is no substitute for wealth creation. They are never taught that the only way to create wealth is for an individual to combine his energy and intellect with resources to produce a product which improves his life, or for which someone else is willing to pay.

Private property, the accumulation of personal prosperity, and individual achievement are anathema to socialism. Socialism sees the individual as nothing more than a cog in a government-run machine designed to ensure equity for all.

Capitalism seeks prosperity; socialism seeks equity. Freedom increases as prosperity increases. In a socialist system, there can be neither.

Like Biden says "If it quacks like a duck, If it walks like a duck. It must be a duck"

Michael Keller
10-23-2008, 01:40 AM
I think he is.

GBMelBlount
10-23-2008, 07:52 AM
Let's be honest. When you hear Obama discuss redistributing wealth in the name of "fairness" how could you not ask that question. Fortunately for Obama, most Americans are buying into it.

GBMelBlount
10-23-2008, 12:35 PM
BTW, nice find Mach1.

Godfather
10-23-2008, 12:38 PM
No. While some of his policies are socialistic, he does not advocate a system in which workers own the means of production nor does he advocate eliminating all economic disparities.

GBMelBlount
10-23-2008, 12:46 PM
No. While some of his policies are socialistic, he does not advocate a system in which workers own the means of production nor does he advocate eliminating all economic disparities.

As you know, there are many shades of gray. If he is not a socialist, is he a marxist? If not, how would you categorize his beliefs in bigger government, more government, higher taxes, increased wealth redistribution, demonizing capitalism and blaming the wealthy for the plight of the poor?

tony hipchest
10-23-2008, 12:57 PM
.... higher taxes, increased wealth redistribution, demonizing capitalism and blaming the wealthy for the plight of the poor?so by your definition mccains own comments would make him a socialist of marxist? :scratchchin:

YNke6ad0t6g

hmmm- here it is- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNke6ad0t6g

MACH1
10-23-2008, 01:03 PM
http://www.nocommunism.com/Obama_tax_hikes.jpg

Let the redistribution and depression begin.

xfl2001fan
10-23-2008, 01:09 PM
He doesn't publically advocate it...but the change from Capitalism to Socialism to Communism is never done overnight nor with a lot of public hype about the end sight.

It's like boiling a frog.

Toss it in a pot with boiling water and it will try it's damndest to hop away.

Put it in a pot of cool water and slowly raise the temperature from cool, to comfortably warm to hot...it will never notice the difference. It will just be cooked.

Obama is right in that if he's elected, change will come. The question is, will any of us be smart enough to hop out of the warming waters after 4 years?

GBMelBlount
10-23-2008, 01:12 PM
so by your definition mccains own comments would make him a socialist of marxist? :scratchchin:

YNke6ad0t6g

hmmm- here it is- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNke6ad0t6g

I didn't say he was. I asked a question. And yes, McCains views to placate the masses do concern me. I've never been a big McCain fan. But those statements seem to more strongly support consistent CORE beliefs of Obama.

GBMelBlount
10-23-2008, 01:14 PM
He doesn't publically advocate it...but the change from Capitalism to Socialism to Communism is never done overnight nor with a lot of public hype about the end sight.

It's like boiling a frog.

Toss it in a pot with boiling water and it will try it's damndest to hop away.

Put it in a pot of cool water and slowly raise the temperature from cool, to comfortably warm to hot...it will never notice the difference. It will just be cooked.

Obama is right in that if he's elected, change will come. The question is, will any of us be smart enough to hop out of the warming waters after 4 years?

Exactly. I think Revs used this analogy as well. :drink:

xfl2001fan
10-23-2008, 01:18 PM
If he did, then I either missed it or it just struck me profoundly enough that (despite not remembering seeing it) it was worth repeating.

Leftoverhard
10-23-2008, 01:24 PM
Obama is the Democratic nominee for the office of the presidency of the USA.

He is not running for the Socialist party.

He is not running for the Communist party.

He is not a Muslim.

He is an American citizen.

He has not brainwashed over half the population of this country.

Here's another fact: When people get backed into a corner or feel like they're losing the fight, they tend to scratch and claw. This is a last ditch article.

MACH1
10-23-2008, 01:25 PM
No. While some of his policies are socialistic, he does not advocate a system in which workers own the means of production nor does he advocate eliminating all economic disparities.


Like I said, if it quacks like a duck.

MACH1
10-23-2008, 01:28 PM
Obama is the Democratic nominee for the office of the presidency of the USA.

He is not running for the Socialist party.

He is not running for the Communist party.

He is not a Muslim.

He is an American citizen.

He has not brainwashed over half the population of this country.

Here's another fact: When people get backed into a corner or feel like they're losing the fight, they tend to scratch and claw. This is a last ditch article.


Dude, you need to lay off the Koolaid.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/bcrab/BarackKoolAid-1.jpg

xfl2001fan
10-23-2008, 01:31 PM
He is a Democratic Nominee who's views line up awfully close to the Socialists of the US.

This entire election (BOTH sides) has been scratching and clawing all "season" long.

Any politician who get's elected has pulled the hood over our eyes since Reagan (which was the first president in my life I remember).

Nice way to pile on many articles all at once though. I'm not sure if you were going for knockout blow with that. If so, it isn't working.

Hitler didn't go around (in the beginning) talking about being a Jew Killing dictatory.

While I doubt that Obama would be anything close to as evil as Hitler, the comparison is valid.

The only time "sudden" change comes about from one system to another is when people have to take a revolutionary stance. Since the Socialist party can't pull a revolution in the US (the drawback would be devastating to their stance), the only possible way of pulling off the trick is what's been going on for years.

Take it one grey line at a time with a very charismatic leader at your forefront.

HometownGal
10-23-2008, 02:49 PM
Dude, you need to lay off the Koolaid.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/bcrab/BarackKoolAid-1.jpg

:rofl::laughing::rofl::toofunny::applaudit:

Obama is the Democratic nominee for the office of the presidency of the USA. Correct.

He is not running for the Socialist party. Correct. But he has some socialistic ideals.

He is not running for the Communist party. Correct.

He is not a Muslim. Hmmmm. Not quite sure on that one just yet.

He is an American citizen. I'm relatively sure he is but I do have a few doubts.

He has not brainwashed over half the population of this country. Bzzzzzzt! WRONG! He's as smooth-talkin' a guy as there ever was but smooth talkers generally don't make good leaders. Personally, I think he's better suited as a used car salesman.

Here's another fact: When people get backed into a corner or feel like they're losing the fight, they tend to scratch and claw. This is a last ditch article. I can guarantee you, my dear Leftover, no one feels like they are "losing the fight", especially not the McCain campaign. J-Mac is gaining on Senator Do-Nothing and after listening to Governor Rendell's statements this morning, the Demos here in PA are nervous as hell. :laughing:

Vis
10-23-2008, 03:11 PM
:rofl::laughing::rofl::toofunny::applaudit:

Obama is the Democratic nominee for the office of the presidency of the USA. Correct.

He is not running for the Socialist party. Correct. But he has some socialistic ideals.

He is not running for the Communist party. Correct.

He is not a Muslim. Hmmmm. Not quite sure on that one just yet.

He is an American citizen. I'm relatively sure he is but I do have a few doubts.

He has not brainwashed over half the population of this country. Bzzzzzzt! WRONG! He's as smooth-talkin' a guy as there ever was but smooth talkers generally don't make good leaders. Personally, I think he's better suited as a used car salesman.

Here's another fact: When people get backed into a corner or feel like they're losing the fight, they tend to scratch and claw. This is a last ditch article. I can guarantee you, my dear Leftover, no one feels like they are "losing the fight", especially not the McCain campaign. J-Mac is gaining on Senator Do-Nothing and after listening to Governor Rendell's statements this morning, the Demos here in PA are nervous as hell. :laughing:


The internal polls are holding steady but thank you for the publicity that keeps out complacency. Remember that the polls target likely voter so they don't hit all the new voters or unlikely voters who will come out the first time for someone like Obama or Kennedy.

xfl2001fan
10-23-2008, 03:18 PM
The internal polls are holding steady but thank you for the publicity that keeps out complacency. Remember that the polls target likely voter so they don't hit all the new voters or unlikely voters who will come out the first time for someone like Obama or Kennedy.

Oh noz...the intra-net pollz r sayin hez myt looz.

Seriously? Internet polls! Polls are (generally) set up on sites or in places where they are to reach the target audience. Target. That word infers to an object aimed at and hit.

I'm not going to set up a Browns SB Poll on a Steelers website because I know that the numbers will not say what I want. But I can easily find a Browns Troll website and set up a poll asking about the chance of getting to a SB.

Then I can come over here and say, "internal polls are holding steady" but thank you for the pulicity that keeps out complacency.

Which polls are you referring too? Are you referring to the ones that show Obama has a lead (the ones led by a left leaning media) or the ones showing that McCain is gaining on him?

NVM

No need to answer, I'm fairly certain which one's you are referring too.

MACH1
10-23-2008, 03:19 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3006/2366638601_815b52ed9e_o.jpg

Here is just a small sample of what will happen under Obama:

A national depression or run away inflation

Mass taxation and give away programs that takes from those that produce and gives to those who do nothing,

Gun control laws that will put everyone under the control of government and criminals

Brainwashing of your children in all schools

Thought police

A Nanny State that will control every aspect of your life and your children’s lives

Huge carbon taxes to fund the government

Vis
10-23-2008, 03:22 PM
Oh noz...the intra-net pollz r sayin hez myt looz.

Seriously? Internet polls! Polls are (generally) set up on sites or in places where they are to reach the target audience. Target. That word infers to an object aimed at and hit.

I'm not going to set up a Browns SB Poll on a Steelers website because I know that the numbers will not say what I want. But I can easily find a Browns Troll website and set up a poll asking about the chance of getting to a SB.

Then I can come over here and say, "internal polls are holding steady" but thank you for the pulicity that keeps out complacency.

Which polls are you referring too? Are you referring to the ones that show Obama has a lead (the ones led by a left leaning media) or the ones showing that McCain is gaining on him?

NVM

No need to answer, I'm fairly certain which one's you are referring too.

When you are intelligent enough to distinguish between "internal" and "internet" come back and post. I'm embarrassed for you.

xfl2001fan
10-23-2008, 03:23 PM
Even better. Your leftish internal polls are of course going to say what the left wants them to say.

You should be embarrassed for yourself.

Where are the internal polls held? Probably online...mostly anyways. Notice in that post how I did refer to your internal polls? Or did you just read the first line and forget about the rest of everything else?

Vis
10-23-2008, 03:25 PM
Even better. Your leftish internal polls are of course going to say what the left wants them to say.

Thank you. You know so much. Just for fun, though, define what an internal poll is and why they are taken.

Preacher
10-23-2008, 03:27 PM
Here is one thing ALL OF YOU ARE FORGETTING........


Reverend Wright.


Now you ask, what in the WORLD does HE have to do with this? The answer is a HECK of a lot more than you may think.

Let's go back to Black liberation theology.

Black liberation theology is based on the 70's and 80's liberation theology of South and central America.

That theology had two major streams of though which gave birth to liberation theology.

The first was catholic theology and the understanding of Christ as liberator, christus victor.

However, the second one... WAS KARL MARX.

Liberation theology was and is a marxist theology re-written for third world post-colonial economies. It has been expanded to any and all who associate themselves with a belief that they must be financially liberated from the sins of the oppressors. The way that liberation comes, is by redistribution of wealth to correct the sins of the oppressors.

Black liberation theology teaches that whites are the oppressors since slavery. In fact, they are quite right in many areas. Where I disagree however, is since the 1960's, the doors have been swung open in many places.. but that is a different discussion.

The fact of the matter is, black liberation theology wants to see a redistribution of wealth based on the history of slavery and seperate but equal which allowed the nation to economically thrive for many years without aptly compensating those who worked (the slaves, sharecropping, etc.).

If Obama was in Rev. Wright's church for 20 years, then he has been taught marxism/socialism by Rev. Wright through the black liberation theology he preaches.

there is no way around it. If any of you want, I will give you plenty of sources to read up on liberation theology and black liberation theology. Its tie to Marx in unarguable, and cannot be removed from the teaching.

CantStop85
10-23-2008, 03:27 PM
Why Obama isn't a socialist:

The short answer, of course, is that he doesn’t support government ownership of the means of production. He’s pro-capitalism, at least pro-the-kind-of-capitalism-we-practice-in-the-US.

Here's an article that offers a more elaborate response to the silly charges led by Obama critics:

You may not like Obama’s tax plan, but it’s not socialism

By David Lightman and William Douglas | McClatchy Newspapers
ST. CHARLES, Mo. — “Make no mistake,” Republican activist John Hanprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterpr ofanityfilter told a John McCain rally in this St. Louis suburb, “this campaign is a referendum on socialism.”

Republicans have been pounding that theme in recent days, even though Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama doesn’t fit the definition of a socialist.

Critics point to Obama’s plan to raise the top two tax rates on the wealthy as clear evidence of his socialist bent. However, Len Burman, the director of the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, said that while Obama “would make the tax system more progressive overall, it would not be a radical shift.”

Favoring higher tax rates for the wealthy than for the less fortunate isn’t socialism, and if it is, then the U.S. has been a socialist country for nearly a century, under both Democrats and Republicans.

“The answer is clearly no, Senator Obama is not a socialist,” said Paul Beck, a professor of political science at The Ohio State University. “We’ve had a progressive tax system for some time, and both Republicans and Democrats have bought into it.”

Socialism involves state ownership of the means of economic production and state-directed sharing of the wealth. America’s democratic capitalist system is neither socialist nor pure free market; rather, it mixes the two, and it has at least since the progressive income tax was introduced 95 years ago. Under it, the wealthy pay higher income tax rates than those who are less fortunate do. It’s a form of sharing the wealth.

Government intervenes in U.S. “free markets” all the time. The deduction that homeowners get for mortgage interest is one form, for it subsidizes housing. The Pentagon procurement that sustains U.S. defense contractors such as Boeing, Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics is another.

For that matter, President Bush and many other Republicans, including McCain, backed a massive federal government rescue of ailing financial institutions this fall, one that’s committed more than $1 trillion so far to “private” banks, even taking partial state ownership of the nine biggest.

Socialism has been more popular in Europe, including in Great Britain, France, and Italy. In the United States, the term traditionally has been closely associated with communism, and thus claiming the socialist mantle has been political poison. Since World War II and the Cold War, American political candidates who advocate pure socialism rarely have gotten very far. Most notably, Sen. Bernard Sanders of Vermont was first elected to Congress in 1990 as a socialist, and remains one.

The new round of socialism claims was triggered by Obama’s comments last week to “Joe the Plumber” Wurzelbacher in Toledo, Ohio.

Wurzelbacher told Obama that he hoped someday to buy a plumbing business, and worried that “Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn’t it?”

Key Bush administration tax cuts are due to expire on Jan. 1, 2011. Obama wants to end breaks for most individuals who earn more than $200,000 and for families that make more than $250,000; McCain does not. Obama’s position would restore the top rates to what they were under President Clinton, when the economy boomed.

“It’s not that I want to punish your success,” the Illinois senator told Wurzelbacher. “I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they’ve got a chance for success, too. My attitude is that if the economy’s good for folks from the bottom up, it’s gonna be good for everybody. . . . I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”

Republicans pounced, and they haven’t stopped.

“You see,” McCain said in his radio address Saturday, “he believes in redistributing wealth, not in policies that help us all make more of it.

“Joe, in his plainspoken way, said this sounded a lot like socialism, and a lot of Americans are thinking along those same lines. In the best case, spreading the wealth around is a familiar idea from the American left.”

It was Bush and McCain — who claimed a central role in the drama — who pushed a trillion-dollar government plan to save ailing financial institutions, however.

“If we’re moving toward socialism,” Beck said, “it’s a bipartisan event.”

One of the major challenges the next president faces, former Federal Reserve Board Chairman and Obama backer Paul Volcker said Tuesday, is “how do we reprivatize institutions” that have been “socialized” by the Bush administration?

Many conservatives were uneasy about the bank bailout, but they argue that it’s important to remember that “George Bush is not on the ballot,” said Brent Littlefield of the American Conservative Union.

He pointed to Obama’s tax ideas.

“It’s a philosophical concept (Obama) has, and he made it clear when, unprompted, he talked about spreading the wealth around,” Littlefield said.

Conservatives often charge that Democrats are engaging in “class warfare” when they want to raise tax rates on the rich — McCain and Palin have used the phrase to attack Obama — but they rarely find such fault when tax cuts disproportionately benefit the wealthy.

Nevertheless, the “socialist” charge against Obama sticks with some voters.

In Ohio, Sara Cannorozzi, who works for a Springfield promotional products business, explained that while her income is nowhere near the amount that would trigger a tax increase, she hopes it will be someday.

“Obama wants to talk about giving pieces of the pie to everyone, but he never wants to talk about growing the pie,” she said. “I don’t want to share my pie. If I earn it, I want to keep as much as I can.”

xfl2001fan
10-23-2008, 03:32 PM
Thank you. You know so much. Just for fun, though, define what an internal poll is and why they are taken.

Generally, internal polls are conducted as a way of seeing how things are holding up internally. So the republicans want to know what republicans think of their own campaign...to see if they are losing their core voters...same for the dems.

If an internal poll by Obama's advisors show he's losing his core people, he has to change that message or at least the delivery. It's basically a climate control.

I imagine that, by the number of times his message has changed, he's failed in many of his internal polls.

I guess it's like the "draft experts" at ESPN. Create enough Mock Drafts and you'll eventually get some of the picks right and you can gloat on it.

Vis
10-23-2008, 03:36 PM
Generally, internal polls are conducted as a way of seeing how things are holding up internally. So the republicans want to know what republicans think of their own campaign...to see if they are losing their core voters...same for the dems.

If an internal poll by Obama's advisors show he's losing his core people, he has to change that message or at least the delivery. It's basically a climate control.

I imagine that, by the number of times his message has changed, he's failed in many of his internal polls.

I guess it's like the "draft experts" at ESPN. Create enough Mock Drafts and you'll eventually get some of the picks right and you can gloat on it.

They are used to decide how to use resources so they are never slanted. You want the hard truth when deciding where to spend the money. So why would you attack them as saying what the campaign wants to hear? You had no point to make so you spouted nonsense.

Preacher
10-23-2008, 03:38 PM
Why Obama isn't a socialist:

The short answer, of course, is that he doesn’t support government ownership of the means of production. He’s pro-capitalism, at least pro-the-kind-of-capitalism-we-practice-in-the-US.

Here's an article that offers a more elaborate response to the silly charges led by Obama critics:

Again, look at my post.

It isn't about socialism as it was found in europe and the USSR. it is about socialism/marxism as redefined by liberation theology.

Leftoverhard
10-23-2008, 03:39 PM
Mach 1 - when you post an inflammatory article, be prepared for some feedback. Especially when you post an article from a non-news source. And quit drinking Bill O'Reilly's kool-aid.

HTG - So, everyone who's voting for Obama is stupid? That's the message I get from a lot of Obama haters on this board. Loud and clear.

Vis
10-23-2008, 03:43 PM
Again, look at my post.

It isn't about socialism as it was found in europe and the USSR. it is about socialism/marxism as redefined by liberation theology.

Which is why Obama's ideas aren't main stream Democrat. ...Oh, they are? Nevermind.

MACH1
10-23-2008, 03:45 PM
Mach 1 - when you post an inflammatory article, be prepared for some feedback. Especially when you post an article from a non-news source. And quit drinking Bill O'Reilly's kool-aid.


I figured I would take heat for the link. Just thought it was a good question to toss out there.
Its only inflammatory if your an Obama supporter. IMO

Preacher
10-23-2008, 03:57 PM
Mach 1 - when you post an inflammatory article, be prepared for some feedback. Especially when you post an article from a non-news source. And quit drinking Bill O'Reilly's kool-aid.

HTG - So, everyone who's voting for Obama is stupid? That's the message I get from a lot of Obama haters on this board. Loud and clear.

you must be hearing something I am not saying then.

Because I don't think people who vote for obama are stupid.

I do think they have an idealic view of things that is not realistic. I do think they have a false sense of the economic engine that drives this country. I also beleive they have an idealic view of humanity which again, is not based in reality. But those are philosophical differences, not intellectual acumen.

GBMelBlount
10-23-2008, 04:04 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3006/2366638601_815b52ed9e_o.jpg


Are those mice or lemmings? :chuckle:

Preacher
10-23-2008, 04:07 PM
Here is just a small sample of what will happen under Obama:

A national depression or run away inflation

Mass taxation and give away programs that takes from those that produce and gives to those who do nothing,

Gun control laws that will put everyone under the control of government and criminals

Brainwashing of your children in all schools

Thought police

A Nanny State that will control every aspect of your life and your children’s lives

Huge carbon taxes to fund the government

Sorry... I call that one out.

At worst... .we will get Clinton's social issues with Carter's financial issues...and both have pretty much been done away with.

As a nation, we survive and bounce back from every administration.

MACH1
10-23-2008, 04:09 PM
Are those mice or lemmings? :chuckle:

I was going to say rats, but didn't want to :stirthepot: to much more. :laughing:

MACH1
10-23-2008, 04:24 PM
Sorry... I call that one out.

At worst... .we will get Clinton's social issues with Carter's financial issues...and both have pretty much been done away with.

As a nation, we survive and bounce back from every administration.

We shall see.

I can see a couple of those happening in a four year term if he is elected. Raising taxes will do wonders for the economy, pushing things closer to a depression. Gun control and carbon taxes to pay for his alternative fuels policy. If he were to get eight years who knows. :noidea:

As far as the schooling goes here's a link another one of his wants.
Universal Voluntary Public Service (http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=305420655186700)

revefsreleets
10-23-2008, 04:50 PM
Don't think he's a socialist, but he has values and positions that may lead to this Country becoming a little more socialist in the very strictest Marxist sense.

What needs bearing in mind is that just like Hitler rising to power, there needs to be whole sets of circumstances and opportunities that work out just a certain way (and, no I'm not comparing Obama to Hitler, just illustrating a point) for a major shift like that to happen. With a liberal led congress and senate, and a very liberal President, we could see pretty substantial shifts in policy towards the left (and, by definition, more socialist) by these elements all working in concert.

And I would never say that Obama supporters are stupid. Many Socialists (and Communists) are extremely intelligent intellectuals...but their fatal flaw is naivety, not stupidity. Because they are high-minded and have blind faith in an ultimate Utopian World, they are undone by the harsh daily realities of the REAL World that we live in, a World where people are really quite atavistic and "The soothed savage beast" is just a thumbnail scratch under the surface from being unleashed...

Preacher
10-23-2008, 06:14 PM
We shall see.

I can see a couple of those happening in a four year term if he is elected. Raising taxes will do wonders for the economy, pushing things closer to a depression. Gun control and carbon taxes to pay for his alternative fuels policy. If he were to get eight years who knows. :noidea:

As far as the schooling goes here's a link another one of his wants.
Universal Voluntary Public Service (http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=305420655186700)

That sounds like a much more reasoned post... and one I can agree with. Sorry, the first one just sounded like the left telling people republcans want old people to eat dog food.

HometownGal
10-23-2008, 10:27 PM
HTG - So, everyone who's voting for Obama is stupid? That's the message I get from a lot of Obama haters on this board. Loud and clear.

I really wish you Libs would stop putting words in my mouth and those of others who don't worship at the Obama altar. The Obama campaign is doing the same thing to McCain and it's getting quite old.

I never said or even implied that those of you who are supporting Obama are stupid.

Misguided and bamboozled - yes.

MACH1
10-23-2008, 10:39 PM
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/bcrab/allhail.gif

All hail King Obama

tony hipchest
10-23-2008, 10:42 PM
Misguided and bamboozled

i often wonder what planet the die hard mccain supporters have lived on for the past 8 years, or 8 months, even weeks. hell, even last 8 days.

McSame = "McChange" = McMaverick = McReform = McPalin = "McJoe the McPlumber"

:rolleyes:

MACH1
10-23-2008, 10:49 PM
Obama = Change = Nothing = Talk = Tea and crumpets = Joe the Peasant Plumber = Socialism

:rolleyes:


http://antzinpantz.com/kns/images/say%20nothing%20best.jpg

steelwall
10-23-2008, 10:58 PM
i often wonder what planet the die hard mccain supporters have lived on for the past 8 years, or 8 months, even weeks. hell, even last 8 days.

McSame = "McChange" = McMaverick = McReform = McPalin = "McJoe the McPlumber"

:rolleyes:

You forgot McDonalds......:laughing:

MACH1
10-23-2008, 11:02 PM
Start referring to Palin as McMuffin.:chuckle:

TroysBadDawg
10-23-2008, 11:04 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3006/2366638601_815b52ed9e_o.jpg

Here is just a small sample of what will happen under Obama:

Gun control laws that will put everyone under the control of government and criminals

They will pry my cold dead fingers from them, Remember
http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/gdhs_2023_6520022


http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-gonz.gif

he Texas Gonzales Banner of 1835,

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/texas101_1892_1617455

Johanna Troutman Flag (Liberty or Death)

Brainwashing of your children in all schools

Already being done!

Thought police

"that's exactly what Nancy Pelosi and other liberals in Congress are working to do RIGHT NOW through the reinstatement of the so-called "Fairness Doctrine."

http://www.zimbio.com/Talk+Radio/articles/37/Pelosi+Liberals+Ramp+Up+Efforts+Hush+Rush

tony hipchest
10-23-2008, 11:25 PM
Start referring to Palin as McMuffin.:chuckle::toofunny:

i like it!

:usa: McCain/McMuffin '08 :tt03:

TroysBadDawg
10-23-2008, 11:35 PM
:toofunny:

i like it!

:usa: McCain/McMuffin '08 :tt03:


I bet Tony would love to eat a McMuffin

xfl2001fan
10-24-2008, 06:30 AM
They are used to decide how to use resources so they are never slanted. You want the hard truth when deciding where to spend the money. So why would you attack them as saying what the campaign wants to hear? You had no point to make so you spouted nonsense.

In this, we'll have to call a cease fire. It's apparent that your intent when desribing an internal poll is different that what I thought you were referring too.

I took the terms literally. Internal, within an organization. Poll...well, not the kind McMuffin dances around. (Yeah, couldn't resist).

I know, in the military, we conduct them on a regular basis. But this is more to determine the "climate" of a particular unit/organization.

HometownGal
10-24-2008, 08:36 AM
i often wonder what planet the die hard mccain supporters have lived on for the past 8 years, or 8 months, even weeks. hell, even last 8 days.

McSame = "McChange" = McMaverick = McReform = McPalin = "McJoe the McPlumber"

:rolleyes:

At the risk of having to ban myself, I'll refrain from answering this. :rolleyes:

Obama = Change = Nothing = Talk = Tea and crumpets = Joe the Peasant Plumber = Socialism


:thumbsup::applaudit: