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View Full Version : Todd Palin:TRULY UNPATRIOTIC!


Steel Duck
10-24-2008, 03:48 PM
Since so many on here feel compelled to question Obamas patriotsm or even the legality of his campaign, I'd like to go ahead and point this out.....
Todd Palin ( Gov Palins husband) was a member of an Alaskan separatist group from 1995-2002. For those of you who don't know what that means, it's simple....He and his group believed that Alaska should be a country of it's own SEPERATE from the U.S.A
Now, you want to tell me how that's patriotic????

The whole story is here...
http://rogerhollander.wordpress.com/2008/10/12/robert-f-kennedy-jr-on-palin-patriotism-and-alaskan-separatism/

Polamalu Princess
10-24-2008, 04:51 PM
Todd Palin is not running.

Hammer67
10-24-2008, 04:51 PM
have anything more legit then someone's blog?

Now lib's are going after the VP spouse as if the VP was that important. Shouldn't you people be worried about Obama's socialist policies and his inexperience? I mean, he's actually running for pres.....

Scary world out there...

tony hipchest
10-24-2008, 05:13 PM
have anything more legit then someone's blog?

Now lib's are going after the VP spouse as if the VP was that important. Shouldn't you people be worried about Obama's socialist policies and his inexperience? I mean, he's actually running for pres.....

Scary world out there...
in another thread you just asked if we should be concerned about obamas "ties". in this one you totally ignore the "ties" to the veep candidate.

this story is old, but true. theres video and registration documentation.

there is also the issue of todd palin given way too much acces and influence to the governors office inb alaska. hell, he was being cc'd on official govt correspondence.

sorry hammer. cant have it both ways. palin keeps bringing up obamas "bad ties". obama keeps ignoring hers and focusing on the issues.

GBMelBlount
10-24-2008, 05:25 PM
Perhaps we should find out his reasons. Perhaps he's disgusted with the direction this country is going whereas Obama is simply disgusted it's not going towards socialism fast enough.

MACH1
10-24-2008, 05:31 PM
Hmmm. I guess since spouses aren't off limits. :noidea:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l29/drive-bymedia/Politics/FirstTimeProudMichelleObama-NFH.jpg

revefsreleets
10-24-2008, 06:11 PM
Michelle Obama's Princeton thesis was pretty much all about race, and how she could only see things through the prism of black and white. Interesting, in that, as Tony wanted to say about McCain's "privileges" at the Naval Academy, I wonder how many more academically superior white kids were bumped so that she could go to Princeton under the auspices of affirmative action (The answer, of course, is only one). But I digress...

Michelle Obama has also really toned down her wardrobe since her husband accepted the nomination (why this matters, I don't know, but the Democrats want to go here with Palin, so why not?). She previously wore all designer couture, the same kind of stuff that might cost a few hundred k from Saks, Nordstroms, et al...but, just as Sarah Plain had to "tone up" from consignment shops to Sak's once under the national spotlight, Michelle had to tone down to more modest apparel. Why the media ignore one major change and sensationalized the other is...well, c'mon, we all KNOW why they picked on Palin and ignored Michelle's transformation.

HometownGal
10-24-2008, 08:28 PM
Who gives a flying hoot what Todd Palin did? He's not on the ballot. :doh:

I read Michelle Obama's Princeton thesis about a month or so ago when it was forwarded to me. I was absolutely horrified and it disgusts me that she could possibly be our First Lady - a role model to American women - if Obama wins the election. I didn't like or respect Teresa Kerry but she would have been a far better choice as a First Lady than that witch.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/Billyboyboo_2007/obamaswife.jpg

tony hipchest
10-24-2008, 08:48 PM
who gives a hoot about rev. do wright or bill ayers? theyre not on the ballot either. :hunch:

of course sarah does more than just "Pal around" with todd. :naughty:

this is really nothing though. all the GOP needs to do is slap a "maverick" label on him and all will be forgotten.

:rolleyes:

HometownGal
10-24-2008, 09:31 PM
who gives a hoot about rev. do wright or bill ayers? theyre not on the ballot either. :hunch:



:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

http://diditwith.net/content/binary/WindowsLiveWriter/ApplesAndOranges_79DF/WeigtingApplesAndOranges_3.jpg

Using your analogy, who gives a hoot about J-Mac being a mini-me of Bush? Bush isn't on the ballot either.



all the GOP needs to do is slap a "maverick" label on him and all will be forgotten.

Nope - not even going there.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

JackHammer
10-24-2008, 09:59 PM
Keep on being fear mongered to. Terror! Be afraid! Socialism! Be afraid! He'll take your guns! Be afraid! Look at his birth certificate! Be afraid! I'm sorry but when I hear republicans telling me to be scared I just have to :rofl:

If you like be fear mongered to then go do some research on Joe Vogler ask yourself: Why would Sarah Palin marry a man who joined an organization that was founded by a guy like that, AND, is that the kind of judgment you want from the person who is a 72 year old heartbeat away from being our next president?

Steel Duck
10-24-2008, 11:13 PM
hmmmm weren't some of you questioning Obamas choices in associates?????

nuff said

Steel Duck
10-24-2008, 11:15 PM
who gives a hoot about rev. do wright or bill ayers? theyre not on the ballot either. :hunch:

of course sarah does more than just "Pal around" with todd. :naughty:

this is really nothing though. all the GOP needs to do is slap a "maverick" label on him and all will be forgotten.

:rolleyes:

EXACTLY!!!!:thumbsup:

tony hipchest
10-24-2008, 11:22 PM
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

http://diditwith.net/content/binary/WindowsLiveWriter/ApplesAndOranges_79DF/WeigtingApplesAndOranges_3.jpg

Using your analogy, who gives a hoot about J-Mac being a mini-me of Bush? Bush isn't on the ballot either.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

but mccain is almost as tied to the hip to bush as mcmuffin is to a secessionist. :banana:

whereas obamas past associations are mere aquaintances who will never even sniff the white house.

youre right! apples and oranges!

thanks for the visual :thumbsup:

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
10-25-2008, 12:07 AM
Todd Palin is not running.
NO but his wife is.......They are married and might share the same views? I love politics

Vis
10-25-2008, 05:54 AM
Half of the state I live in still wants to leave the Union

Polamalu Princess
10-25-2008, 10:26 AM
NO but his wife is.......They are married and might share the same views? I love politics

You said it right - they MIGHT share the same views. Again, this is not about him. If we want to start going after the spouses, dig into MO's history and what she has to say...you might want to buckle up if you do, because it is one hell of a bumpy ride.

xbroughneck
10-25-2008, 12:32 PM
You said it right - they MIGHT share the same views. Again, this is not about him. If we want to start going after the spouses, dig into MO's history and what she has to say...you might want to buckle up if you do, because it is one hell of a bumpy ride.


Heck, why not Link to the darn thing. (http://www.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_1-251.pdf) If you find it eye opening? I would think you'd want a whole host of people to actually read it.

Yes..it's based on race relations at an Ivy League school 22 years ago.

At least she and her husband are intelligent enough to write a senior thesis. Can't say that about every political candidate in this years election.

MACH1
10-25-2008, 12:38 PM
Heck, why not Link to the darn thing. (http://www.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_1-251.pdf) If you find it eye opening? I would think you'd want a whole host of people to actually read it.

Yes..it's based on race relations at an Ivy League school 22 years ago.

At least she and her husband are intelligent enough to write a senior thesis. Can't say that about every political candidate in this years election.

Thesis,community manager > Governor, mayor

Experience trumps school IMO

xbroughneck
10-25-2008, 12:46 PM
Thesis,community manager > Governor, mayor

Experience trumps school IMO

Does it trump intelligence? Good thing you qualified that with IMO.


IMHO, best case scenario you have both. Oh well.

Dick Cheney has a whole heck of a lot of experience. A LOT. Doesn't mean squat if you're not intelligent in your decision making as a political figure.

MACH1
10-25-2008, 01:01 PM
Does it trump intelligence? Good thing you qualified that with IMO.


IMHO, best case scenario you have both. Oh well.

Dick Cheney has a whole heck of a lot of experience. A LOT. Doesn't mean squat if you're not intelligent in your decision making as a political figure.

Yeah I guess that intelligence comes in handy for the third or fourth try to get it right.:doh: Just like Biden said he isn't qualified to be pres because hasn't any, zip or squat for experience. But he is the best in the business for saying nothing.:thumbsup:

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-25-2008, 01:13 PM
Does it trump intelligence? Good thing you qualified that with IMO.


IMHO, best case scenario you have both. Oh well.

Dick Cheney has a whole heck of a lot of experience. A LOT. Doesn't mean squat if you're not intelligent in your decision making as a political figure.

I might buy that logic if the left and the media applied it across the board....but with the arbitrary logic of trying to dismantle Palin's experience, while saying that Obama's lack of experience is a non-issue...I have to call B.S.

xbroughneck
10-25-2008, 01:14 PM
Yeah I guess that intelligence comes in handy for the third or fourth try to get it right.:doh: Just like Biden said he isn't qualified to be pres because hasn't any, zip or squat for experience. But he is the best in the business for saying nothing.:thumbsup:

Has Biden run for the VP spot more than once? I know McCain has run for the Presidency more than once( even though a few of his stances have changed since last time).

xbroughneck
10-25-2008, 01:15 PM
I might buy that logic if the left and the media applied it across the board....but with the arbitrary logic of trying to dismantle Palin's experience, while saying that Obama's lack of experience is a non-issue...I have to call B.S.

Oh...I agree. I have never knocked Palin for lack of experience.

Hell, who knows how to get into a college better than her?:sofunny:

Seriously though. Back on topic.

I don't think her association with her husband is that important an issue. It's about HER and McCain and Barack and Biden.

I happen to trust BB more than PM.

I don't care what her husband did five years ago (as long as it wasn't stringing up a minority).

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-25-2008, 01:21 PM
Oh...I agree. I have never knocked Palin for lack of experience.

Hell, who knows how to get into a college better than her?:sofunny:

Nice point....Palin getting into college and Obama getting into the White House is a perfect comparison....with both using an "American Idol" mentality instead of qualifications.

xbroughneck
10-25-2008, 01:21 PM
I might buy that logic if the left and the media applied it across the board....but with the arbitrary logic of trying to dismantle Palin's experience, while saying that Obama's lack of experience is a non-issue...I have to call B.S.


And for the record...they are hitting her on the EXPERIENCE because she popped her head out from under a rock TWO MONTHS AGO.

Barack has been HAMMERED on the experience since he announced his run for the Presidency. I guess you forgot him running against Edwards and Clinton. Oh wait. They are democrats so you ignored the media when that was going on.

Maybe you think they should reprint some of the stories they ran six months ago because that makes good press? Hmmm??

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-25-2008, 01:23 PM
I happen to trust BB more than PM.

.

Based on.....?

xbroughneck
10-25-2008, 01:23 PM
Nice point....Palin getting into college and Obama getting into the White House is a perfect comparison....with both using an "American Idol" mentality instead of qualifications.

So who determines what would be valued qualifications for a presidential candidate? YOU? History?

Thinking that way you would vote for Dick Cheney, or hell...George Bush for a third term because his resume fits?

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-25-2008, 01:25 PM
And for the record...they are hitting her on the EXPERIENCE because she popped her head out from under a rock TWO MONTHS AGO.

Barack has been HAMMERED on the experience since he announced his run for the Presidency. I guess you forgot him running against Edwards and Clinton. Oh wait. They are democrats so you ignored the media when that was going on.

Maybe you think they should reprint some of the stories they ran six months ago because that makes good press? Hmmm??

Alot of those stories were your own party eatings its young....spouting how terrible and "underqualified" the other was ....and now speaking out of the other side of their face in saying he is the perfect man for the job.

Sounds like you hav a problem with the Clinton political machine.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-25-2008, 01:26 PM
So who determines what would be valued qualifications for a presidential candidate? YOU? History?

Thinking that way you would vote for Dick Cheney, or hell...George Bush for a third term because his resume fits?

...and here I thought you were not going to use associations.

That lasted all of about 15 seconds.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-25-2008, 01:31 PM
So who determines what would be valued qualifications for a presidential candidate? YOU? History?



Again...that is hypocritical based on the simple fact that if the roles were reversed. and lets say Hillary was running against a republican with 143 days of senate experience...the left would be holding their sides in laughter and proclaiming to the Gods that there was NO WAY we could trust the next 4 years to a novice.

No way would We be having this same discussion in that case....You would be all over the lack of qualifications...EXACTLY why it is so hard to talk facts about this election...its based on an obvious hypocricy and faulty logic that angers the left due to its transparancy.

xbroughneck
10-25-2008, 01:34 PM
Based on.....?

Biased on my part.

Started looking for a strong african american political figure that I could look up to back in 2003 that wasn't Jesse Jackson. Heard Barack's DNC speech in 2004. Did some background research (did you know that he attended Occidental College near Glendale, CA)....read both his books, identified with him not really knowing his father, being raised by his grandparents (both of which applys to me as well) being a black man, but trying extremely hard not to identify himself as being part of the "black movement"...

Obviously I identify with him because I believe what he says.

Do I lean left in my ideological views? Yup.
Am I conservative on some of my views? Yup.

Joe Biden....empathize with him about him losing his wife. Raising his son. (Me being recently single after 12 years of marriage). Feel that where Barack, as the commander in chief, may be found wanting....Biden's experience can be extremely useful.

xbroughneck
10-25-2008, 01:40 PM
Again...that is hypocritical based on the simple fact that if the roles were reversed. and lets say Hillary was running against a republican with 143 days of senate experience...the left would be holding their sides in laughter and proclaiming to the Gods that there was NO WAY we could trust the next 4 years to a novice.

No way would We be having this same discussion in that case....You would be all over the lack of qualifications...EXACTLY why it is so hard to talk facts about this election...its based on an obvious hypocricy and faulty logic that angers the left due to its transparancy.

But your assumption isn't based on fact.

If I liked the Republican candidate I wouldn't give a rats petunia about the experience. I've voted for George W. Bush TWICE. You?

I liked John McCain before this election.

Then I saw how he let the Republican party run his campaign. I saw how he didn't put country first with his VP selection (if you don't think it had 100% to do with him appealing to the republican base that thought he was OK..but we know he isn't REALLY who we want in the office...well, that's being naive on your part).

Then I read about the situation with him and his ex wife.

Not sure I respect John McCain nearly as much as I thought I did.

If a charismatic young black Republican had come out of the brush and made me feel like, hey...I identify with this guy, he seems intelligent....runs a campaign based on issues.. maybe I'd be voting for that guy.

Unfortunately, we have McCain and Palin. I've lost respect for McCain and I DON'T like Palin.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-25-2008, 01:41 PM
Biased on my part.

Started looking for a strong african american political figure that I could look up to back in 2003 that wasn't Jesse Jackson. Heard Barack's DNC speech in 2004. Did some background research (did you know that he attended Occidental College near Glendale, CA)....read both his books, identified with him not really knowing his father, being raised by his grandparents (both of which applys to me as well) being a black man, but trying extremely hard not to identify himself as being part of the "black movement"...

Obviously I identify with him because I believe what he says.

Do I lean left in my ideological views? Yup.
Am I conservative on some of my views? Yup.

Joe Biden....empathize with him about him losing his wife. Raising his son. (Me being recently single after 12 years of marriage). Feel that where Barack, as the commander in chief, may be found wanting....Biden's experience can be extremely useful.

Appreciate the honesty...

Biased on my Part also...

Live in Illinois where he was our senator....saw how others wrote up bills and spoon-fed them to him so as to build a resume....saw how he refused to vote on anything controversial by voting "present" 129 times...watched as he was groomed and artificially lime-lighted into a celebrity, speaking at the DNC while still a senator at the state level.....watched as he changed policies with the political wind.

Do I lean right...most definately....He is part of the Chicago corrupt political machine...and I dont want to see him do to our country what his Political friends have done to our state.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-25-2008, 01:48 PM
But your assumption isn't based on fact.

If I liked the Republican candidate I wouldn't give a rats petunia about the experience. I've voted for George W. Bush TWICE. You?

I liked John McCain before this election.

Then I saw how he let the Republican party run his campaign. I saw how he didn't put country first with his VP selection (if you don't think it had 100% to do with him appealing to the republican base that thought he was OK..but we know he isn't REALLY who we want in the office).

Then I read about the situation with him and his ex wife.

Not sure I respect John McCain nearly as much as I thought I did.

If a charismatic young black Republican had come out of the brush and made me feel like, hey...I identify with this guy, he seems intelligent....runs a campaign based on issues.. maybe I'd be voting for that guy.

Unfortunately, we have McCain and Palin. I've lost respect for McCain and I DON'T like Palin.

But shouldnt the point be that McCain has done something in his past to earn your respect....based more on experience and less on charisma?

Seriously ....not to be rude...but from what you are telling me...Since your admiration of Obama is based on his being a "charismatic young black"....what could he do that is going to change that....be less black?

xbroughneck
10-25-2008, 01:55 PM
Appreciate the honesty...

Biased on my Part also...

Live in Illinois where he was our senator....saw how others wrote up bills and spoon-fed them to him so as to build a resume....saw how he refused to vote on anything controversial by voting "present" 129 times...watched as he was groomed and artificially lime-lighted into a celebrity, speaking at the DNC while still a senator at the state level.....watched as he changed policies with the political wind.


So...how you've reached this conclusion would be very interesting to me. You obviously have read things.

Is his approval rating in your state as a senator poor? Yes, it's proven that he's voted present a lot, but I've seen how Bills have been worded. In the Illinois senate, when one votes PRESENT (which I assume means neither yeah nor nay), what happens.

You REALLY want to know what drew me to Barack?

Guess what's one of my all time favorite movies.

Mr. Smith goes to Washington

IMHO, when I saw him I saw a black Jimmy Stewart. Maybe it's naievity on my part (I know I didn't spell that correctly).

Barack makes me believe, based on what he's said and based on my own belief in our country, that with the right inspiring leader the REST OF US will be more willing to do things to help improve this country.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong. We'll see.

xbroughneck
10-25-2008, 01:58 PM
But shouldnt the point be that McCain has done something in his past to earn your respect....based more on experience and less on charisma?

Seriously ....not to be rude...but from what you are telling me...Since your admiration of Obama is based on his being a "charismatic young black"....what could he do that is going to change that....be less black?

Nope. If he SAID some of the stuff that Sarah Palin has said...I wouldn't vote for him. Black, white or whatever.

I'd have never voted for Jesse Jackson. He was young and black at one time. Thing is, I never identified with him.

I don't identify with Barack simply because he's black. He caught my attention because he was black and I identified with his story.

GBMelBlount
10-25-2008, 02:03 PM
Barack makes me believe, based on what he's said and based on my own belief in our country, that with the right inspiring leader the REST OF US will be more willing to do things to help improve this country.



What has he said to make you believe and what is your belief in our country? I mean how exactly do you feel he will inspire this country to improve things other than through words?

MACH1
10-25-2008, 02:03 PM
So...how you've reached this conclusion would be very interesting to me. You obviously have read things.

Is his approval rating in your state as a senator poor? Yes, it's proven that he's voted present a lot, but I've seen how Bills have been worded. In the Illinois senate, when one votes PRESENT (which I assume means neither yeah nor nay), what happens.

You REALLY want to know what drew me to Barack?

Guess what's one of my all time favorite movies.

Mr. Smith goes to Washington

IMHO, when I saw him I saw a black Jimmy Stewart. Maybe it's naievity on my part (I know I didn't spell that correctly).

Barack makes me believe, based on what he's said and based on my own belief in our country, that with the right inspiring leader the REST OF US will be more willing to do things to help improve this country.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong. We'll see.

Mr. Smiths policies aren't going to help out a whole lot right now. The last thing a person should do is raise taxes in the middle of recession. Or tax the bejesus out of small business to pay for those policies. Those small business's are going to cut jobs to make up the differences. And don't give me that its only going to affect only 5% of business's because they have to make over $250,000.

xbroughneck
10-25-2008, 02:04 PM
A LARGE portion of McCain's political party doesn't want him to be President due to some of his ideology. I respect that.

Again, I liked him prior to this campaign. I would have voted for him instead of Hillary Clinton. Why? Because I really don't trust her to unite the country. Galvanize the public.

Plus, she TALKS anti Republican. Barack may vote liberal, but at least he'll make a Republican feel good while he vetos a bill he opposes. Hillary would just give a "F$$@ you, I'm the President" and turn the other cheek.:wink02:


Guess one of us will be proven wrong. At this point, everyone has decided who they are going to vote for, so going over WHY is pretty pointless.

I just find political threads entertaining, so I posted here.:drink:

xbroughneck
10-25-2008, 02:10 PM
Mr. Smiths policies aren't going to help out a whole lot right now. The last thing a person should do is raise taxes in the middle of recession. Or tax the bejesus out of small business to pay for those policies. Those small business's are going to cut jobs to make up the differences. And don't give me that its only going to affect only 5% of business's because they have to make over $250,000.


Have you read Barack's tax plan (http://www.barackobama.com/taxes/)
For ME...his plan works and you can't prove that it won't.

It's about who you BELIEVE will be better for this country as a whole.

GBMelBlount
10-25-2008, 02:24 PM
Have you read Barack's tax plan (http://www.barackobama.com/taxes/)

For ME...his plan works and you can't prove that it won't.

It's about who you BELIEVE will be better for this country as a whole.

Why does it work for you? Is it because you will be keeping more of what you earn? Or perhaps that you feel it will benefit the majority of the people and the country as a whole? I really would like you to clarify exactly why you feel it "works".

MACH1
10-25-2008, 02:24 PM
True...But his tax plan doesn't work so hot for me. And no I don't make any where close to $250,000. Wish I did.

But then I do have employee's to worry about too.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-25-2008, 02:38 PM
So...how you've reached this conclusion would be very interesting to me. You obviously have read things.

Is his approval rating in your state as a senator poor? Yes, it's proven that he's voted present a lot, but I've seen how Bills have been worded. In the Illinois senate, when one votes PRESENT (which I assume means neither yeah nor nay), what happens.



Illinois leans left due to top heavy Democratic Chicago...You have to live here to truly understand how knee jerk reactive and corrupt Chicago is....Its no wonder that Jesse Jackson calls Illinois home and now employs Mel Reynolds, Illinois Democratic Representative who was convicted and served time for sexual misconduct with a minor .

Its home to Dan Rostenkowski, Illinois Democratic representative who was indicted on corruption charges for his key role in the House post office scandal. He was forced to step down from all Congressional leadership positions. In elections later that year, Rostenkowski still won the democratic nod...but lost his seat to the republican nominee...and soon after spent 15 months in jail.

Its home to current Govenor Rod Blagojevich, who is a scandal magnet and as corrupt as any politician alive...do a quick google search of his name with the word "scandal".... and prepare to read a loooooong time.

Get outside of Chicago and the rest of the state sees Obama for what he is and most understand how he relates to the Chicago machine that has artificially propped him up as an icon.

As to how the present vote works...the illinois legislation can vote... yes...no....present...or abstain....present simply means that you are not voting for or against...not taking a stance on the bill....not willing to show your hand To abstain is generally used to show that you are willing to compromise on the bill and may be talked into taking a side.
The Obama campaign would have the country believe that "present" has the same meaning as abstaining from a vote....simply not true.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-25-2008, 02:43 PM
Have you read Barack's tax plan (http://www.barackobama.com/taxes/)
For ME...his plan works and you can't prove that it won't.

It's about who you BELIEVE will be better for this country as a whole.

Under Obamas plan...My wifes bosses have already stated that they would lay off 4 employees...in order to not be fined for failure to provide insurance.

I think I can prove that 4 Ladies employed without health coverage is better for them individually, than to be 4 ladies unemployed without coverage.

xbroughneck
10-25-2008, 02:47 PM
Under Obamas plan...My wifes bosses have already stated that they would lay off 4 employees...in order to not be fined for failure to provide insurance.

I think I can prove that 4 Ladies employed without health coverage is better for them individually, than to be 4 ladies unemployed without coverage.

Maybe it's just me, but I won't work for someone that doesn't provide health coverage. In our current system....nope. I'd look for a new job.

GBMelBlount
10-25-2008, 03:16 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I won't work for someone that doesn't provide health coverage. In our current system....nope. I'd look for a new job.

What if that job you were looking for was no longer available because the company who would have employed you moved overseas because it could no longer turn a profit in the U.S. due to forced health care coverage raising their costs too much? Now more people are out of work and the economy spins further into recession. That doesn't work and you can't prove otherwise. What's your solution now, even more government and 2 trillion in new taxes?

MACH1
10-25-2008, 04:55 PM
What if that job you were looking for was no longer available because the company who would have employed you moved overseas because it could no longer turn a profit in the U.S. due to forced health care coverage raising their costs too much? Now more people are out of work and the economy spins further into recession. That doesn't work and you can't prove otherwise. What's your solution now, even more government and 2 trillion in new taxes?

Thats where spreading the wealth around comes in. :chuckle: Get paid to sit on your ass and do nothing.

revefsreleets
10-25-2008, 05:13 PM
What if that job you were looking for was no longer available because the company who would have employed you moved overseas because it could no longer turn a profit in the U.S. due to forced health care coverage raising their costs too much? Now more people are out of work and the economy spins further into recession. That doesn't work and you can't prove otherwise. What's your solution now, even more government and 2 trillion in new taxes?

Not to mention the fact that their tax break expired, which will probably also be coupled with a further supplementary tax increase, making the already highest corporate tax rate in the World even higher.

Why WOULD a company stay in a country that taxes it into the red?

To further extrapolate, the tax increases that send jobs overseas and close down US companies will have a ripple effect. Without those taxes coming in upon which Obama's "relief for the poor" plans will depend upon so heavily, we will have even more unemployed poor people, and a shrinking top tax bracket to penalize and tax the Hell out of to redistribute the wealth back down to all the newly unemployed who lost their jobs because of the very tax increases that were naively instituted to help them in the first place.

Vicious cycle where nobody wins...

GBMelBlount
10-25-2008, 05:47 PM
xbroughneck
At least she and her husband (Barak & Michelle Obama) are intelligent enough to write a senior thesis. Can't say that about every political candidate in this years election.

Huh?

You see xbrough, this is what puzzles me. You seem to think Obama is so smart but he apparently does not even understand introductory Economics. He has stated that the way to get the economy and jobs back on track is to take a trillion dollars from those that would invest it in more business and jobs and give it to the lower and middle income. That goes against basic economics.

So why do I not say Obama is stupid? Simple, because he is smart enough to know, as any good salesman, that if he promises the average Joe that by taking the $500 or $1,000 they deserve they will help raise the middle class and the economy, they will vote for him! Wow!

So do you see why I questioned you when you said that his massive income redistribution plan works and it can't be proven otherwise?

HometownGal
10-25-2008, 07:49 PM
Have you read Barack's tax plan (http://www.barackobama.com/taxes/)
For ME...his plan works and you can't prove that it won't.

It's about who you BELIEVE will be better for this country as a whole.

And YOU can't prove that Obama's plan WILL work for you or for anyone else.

Thank you for providing the link above. Sure looks nice on paper, but nowhere does Done Nuttin' or Juice explain how they plan on accomplishing these cuts. :doh:

tony hipchest
10-25-2008, 08:08 PM
Thank you for providing the link above. Sure looks nice on paper, but nowhere does Done Nuttin' or Juice explain how they plan on accomplishing these cuts. :doh:as opposed to the countless hours mcsame and falin have spent explaining how they plan on accomplishing ALL their cuts? :banging:

revefsreleets
10-25-2008, 08:09 PM
as opposed to the coutless hours mcsame and falin have spent explaining how they plan on accomplishing ALL their cuts? :banging:

They did it in 10 seconds: Spending freeze.

tony hipchest
10-25-2008, 08:15 PM
They did it in 10 seconds: Spending freeze.but exceptions to this freeze have already been announced. the increased spending on children with disabilities will continue (or commence).

i agree with helping the disadvantaged children. while it will be looked at as simple "welfare by non tax payers by some" i feel it is a necessity for our society as a whole.

hopefully all here understand and forgive me for using that society/socialism word.

revefsreleets
10-25-2008, 08:18 PM
but exceptions to this freeze have already been announced. the increased spending on children with disabilities will continue (or commence).

i agree with helping the disadvantaged children. while it will be looked at as simple "welfare by non tax payers by some" i feel it is a necessity for our society as a whole.

hopefully all here understand and forgive me for using that society/socialism word.

So they spend an extra 500 million on that...that's nothing.

What's Obama's plan? I've never really been clear on that.

He's cutting taxes, and increasing spending, yet balancing the budget?

How's that work?

MACH1
10-25-2008, 08:32 PM
.

What's Obama's plan? I've never really been clear on that.

It changes day by day. Kind of hard to nail it down. Like trying to nail jello to the wall.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-27-2008, 07:49 AM
What's Obama's plan? I've never really been clear on that.



Which plan?....the pre-senate Obama plan....the senate Obama plan..the pre-Running against Hillary Obama plan...the while-running against Hillary Obama plan...the Democratic nomination plan....or the current (as of 8:49 a.m.) plan?

GBMelBlount
10-27-2008, 08:41 AM
....and wait til you see his new plan if he wins the election and realizes "holy sheet, now I've got Carte Blanche!". With the likes of Reed, Pelosi & Boxer heading up congress. he will be 100% right. So then the question in four years will be if he can blame still get away with blaming all of the problems caused by bigger government, socialized medicine, etc. on capitalism and free markets.....

HometownGal
10-27-2008, 08:52 AM
as opposed to the countless hours mcsame and falin have spent explaining how they plan on accomplishing ALL their cuts? :banging:

You still didn't answer the question, hipcheese, and Do Nuttin didn't answer it in the last debate either. What are they going to cut spending on? And how?

MACH1
10-27-2008, 11:16 AM
....and wait til you see his new plan if he wins the election and realizes "holy sheet, now I've got Carte Blanche!". With the likes of Reed, Pelosi & Boxer heading up congress. he will be 100% right. So then the question in four years will be if he can blame still get away with blaming all of the problems caused by bigger government, socialized medicine, etc. on capitalism and free markets.....

Nope they'll still blame it on Bush. Everything's his fault. :rolleyes:

Hammer67
11-03-2008, 08:02 AM
I don't care about all these media distractions (Palin's dress, Obama's friends, experience factor, etc.) If your talking experience, none of them have executive experience except for Palin, so that argument is kind of dumb.

I look at it on a grander level. My two biggest issues with a president is their general economic view and their foreign policy stance. For the former, I am conservative. I don't want the government to take my hard earned money and give it to it's own entitlement programs and for the latter, I have to go conservative again. In fact, I wish we could enact the Monroe doctrine again (wishful thinking, I know). SO...with all of that said, I have to leave Barack behind as his economical policies are too socialist for me and his statements on foriegn policy have been disturbing so far. That leaves McCain or a Libertarian candidate for me.....

Hammer67
11-03-2008, 08:23 AM
Keep on being fear mongered to. Terror! Be afraid! Socialism! Be afraid! He'll take your guns! Be afraid! Look at his birth certificate! Be afraid! I'm sorry but when I hear republicans telling me to be scared I just have to :rofl:

If you like be fear mongered to then go do some research on Joe Vogler ask yourself: Why would Sarah Palin marry a man who joined an organization that was founded by a guy like that, AND, is that the kind of judgment you want from the person who is a 72 year old heartbeat away from being our next president?

If you are referring to my comments in the first responce, then I have to correct you in that I am NOT a Republican....

Assumptions make an ass.....well, nevermind.

xfl2001fan
11-03-2008, 09:30 AM
So I'm trying to understand some of the arguments against Palin.

Don't vote for McCain, because Palin is a 72 year old heartbeat away from becoming an inexperienced President.

Instead, let's just skip the possibility of having an inexperience politician for President and go straight to...electing one?

revefsreleets
11-03-2008, 09:43 AM
So I'm trying to understand some of the arguments against Palin.

Don't vote for McCain, because Palin is a 72 year old heartbeat away from becoming an inexperienced President.

Instead, let's just skip the possibility of having an inexperience politician for President and go straight to...electing one?


That's pretty much the paradox the Democrats created for themselves when they started attacking Palin.

Thank you for summing that up so nicely...

tony hipchest
11-03-2008, 09:48 AM
So I'm trying to understand some of the arguments against Palin.

Don't vote for McCain, because Palin is a 72 year old heartbeat away from becoming an inexperienced President.

Instead, let's just skip the possibility of having an inexperience politician for President and go straight to...electing one?dont vote for mccain because of his horrible judgement. heres how his veep selection went-

"bring me a list of all female republican governors. i want the youngest prettiest one (looks sells) to grab the disgrunteled hillary supporters, and independents. lets make sure she can atleast slightly resemble the label "maveric and reformer".

voila. you would think a presidential candidate would put a little more work into a decision so important.

revefsreleets
11-03-2008, 09:58 AM
dont vote for mccain because of his horrible judgement. heres how his veep selection went-

"bring me a list of all female republican governors. i want the youngest prettiest one (looks sells) to grab the disgrunteled hillary supporters, and independents. lets make sure she can atleast slightly resemble the label "maveric and reformer".

voila. you would think a presidential candidate would put a little more work into a decision so important.

Or, perhaps McCain is NOT an idiot and he realized that the Democrats WOULD attack her and create this paradox.

I just don't think he realized the attacks would be so vicious and widespread.

xfl2001fan
11-03-2008, 10:32 AM
dont vote for mccain because of his horrible judgement. heres how his veep selection went-

"bring me a list of all female republican governors. i want the youngest prettiest one (looks sells) to grab the disgrunteled hillary supporters, and independents. lets make sure she can atleast slightly resemble the label "maveric and reformer".

voila. you would think a presidential candidate would put a little more work into a decision so important.

So we bash McCain for brining in an "inexperienced VP"...but we're not supposed to bash the Democratic party for backing an inexperienced Presidential candidate?

Tie this in with my earlier statement. It still works.

It seems like every time the Democratic party wants to open it's mouth, it just switches feet.

tony hipchest
11-03-2008, 10:37 AM
So we bash McCain for brining in an "inexperienced VP"...but we're not supposed to bash the Democratic party for backing an inexperienced Presidential candidate?

Tie this in with my earlier statement. It still works.

It seems like every time the Democratic party wants to open it's mouth, it just switches feet.see, youre not following... or maybe you just werent a member here then, but the republicans on this board spent countless posts bashing obama for his lack of experience and as soon as mccain selected palin they completely flip flopped and started defending a candidate with virtually no experince.

man was that funny... it still is.

:chuckle:

Hammer67
11-03-2008, 10:39 AM
see, youre not following... or maybe you just werent a member here then, but the republicans on this board spent countless posts bashing obama for his lack of experience and as soon as mccain selected palin they completely flip flopped and started defending a candidate with virtually no experince.

man was that funny... it still is.

:chuckle:

Um, but isn't Obama the PRESIDENTIAL candidate? SHouldn't you be comparing his experience to McCain's?? Isn't Palin the only one on either ticket with EXECUTIVE experience here?

The paradox is indeed in full swing.

HometownGal
11-03-2008, 10:42 AM
see, youre not following... or maybe you just werent a member here then, but the republicans on this board spent countless posts bashing obama for his lack of experience and as soon as mccain selected palin they completely flip flopped and started defending a candidate with virtually no experince.

man was that funny... it still is.

:chuckle:

No, Tony - what is absolutely hilarious is that the "republicans on this board" have asked you Demos/Libs time and time and time again to tell us why you all support an inexperienced candidate with a blank resume who is running for the highest office in the land and the question STILL hasn't been answered.

No sweat - I'll be happy to answer it for you . . . .

http://static.flickr.com/29/57171544_a08886e63f_o.jpg

:chuckle:

revefsreleets
11-03-2008, 10:46 AM
Again, we see the same ole, same ole, Palin and Obama on a level playing field.

That's not the way it's supposed to be...

xfl2001fan
11-03-2008, 10:50 AM
see, youre not following... or maybe you just werent a member here then, but the republicans on this board spent countless posts bashing obama for his lack of experience and as soon as mccain selected palin they completely flip flopped and started defending a candidate with virtually no experince.

man was that funny... it still is.

:chuckle:

I'm not defending Palin's choice. I'm not sold that she was the best possible VP candidate possible. However, I am sold on the fact that Obama wasn't the best Presidential candidate out of the Democratic party because he doesn't have experience. I've been a member of this site long enough to remember the arguments many of my conservative brothers/sisters have brought up.

There still is no answer from the Liberal/Socialists as to why Obama is a good Presidential candidate. If it's because of a Vice Presidential choice, then the attack is in the wrong area. You're questioning someone who "might" become President "if" McCain is elected. I'm questioning someone who "would" become President "if" he was elected. They are two very different scenarios.

Yes, there are more experienced/better VP's...but if Obama is the best the Libs can come up with, how scary is that.

revefsreleets
11-03-2008, 10:53 AM
I personally would be much more comfortable with Hillary Clinton than Obama. She's from the DLC/New Democrat school and traditionally more centrist in her views.

tony hipchest
11-03-2008, 10:55 AM
No, Tony - what is absolutely hilarious is that the "republicans on this board" have asked you Demos/Libs time and time and time again to tell us why you all support an inexperienced candidate with a blank resume who is running for the highest office in the land and the question STILL hasn't been answered.



:chuckle:
yeah it has. you and especially LLT have just chose to ignore it to the point where i have clearly stated i am not going to keep repeating myself to you over, and over and over.

do a search....

ive given dozens of reasons why i can overlook his relative lack of experince and not vote for somebody how sows about as much restraint and judgement skills as our current president. the shart infested underwear this country has got on needs changed and palin sure isnt the one to do it.

keep drinking that palin kool-aid though :wink02::wink02::wink02: for all we know, mccain would appoint first dude todd as the ambassador to russia and china for all his foregn experience :thumbsup:

sorry, im not taking that chance. i trust obamas judgement WAY better. atleast he has shown he can run organize and run a campaign. if john runs this country as poorly as he did his presidential bid we are in some deep doo doo.

we dont need a president who admittedly still needs to read up on the economy.

tony hipchest
11-03-2008, 10:58 AM
I personally would be much more comfortable with Hillary Clinton than Obama. She's from the DLC/New Democrat school and traditionally more centrist in her views.i woulda voted hillary over a mccain/palin ticket, however if hillary were running mccain NEVER woulda selected palin and this would be an entirely different race and i would probably have a much more favorable opinion of mccains judgement and which direction he were leading us in.

xfl2001fan
11-03-2008, 11:00 AM
sorry, im not taking that chance. i trust obamas judgement WAY better. atleast he has shown he can run organize and run a campaign. if john runs this country as poorly as he did his presidential bid we are in some deep doo doo.

we dont need a president who admittedly still needs to read up on the economy.

Obama doesn't run his campaign. His campaign manager does. McCain at least is willing to admit what he doesn't know.

What does Obama actually "know" besides that he's not happy with the way things are?

You trust a guys judgement after 143 days as a Senator who voted Present 128+times?

Again, it's a curiosity to me.

revefsreleets
11-03-2008, 11:02 AM
Biden is on the ticket for one reason: Georgia.

Had Russia not rolled into Georgia, he would never have knee-jerked and picked ole Joe.

So Obama has not exactly shown the greatest judgment either in that regard.

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-03-2008, 11:04 AM
see, youre not following... or maybe you just werent a member here then, but the republicans on this board spent countless posts bashing obama for his lack of experience and as soon as mccain selected palin they completely flip flopped and started defending a candidate with virtually no experince.
man was that funny... it still is.

:chuckle:

By "attacking" Obama you must mean how people keep asking what achievements he has that would make one think that he is qualified....and as HTG has stated....a question that has been asked for months that has yet to be answered.

Instead the left has created a huge efigy of Palin that they point at everytime that question is raised.

Its like someone trying to convince us that Ryan Fitzpatrick is a better QB than Ben...because Fitzpatrick has more experience than Leftwich. (Yes I know that Ryan Fitzpatrick was drafted in 2005 and Byron was drafted in 2003...but I wanted to keep the example as true to life as possible)

Sound stupid?.....Welcome to our world.

MACH1
11-03-2008, 11:05 AM
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/gearyb/LORD1.jpg

Did I here Kool Aid. :chuckle:

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-03-2008, 11:16 AM
yeah it has. you and especially LLT have just chose to ignore it to the point where i have clearly stated i am not going to keep repeating myself to you over, and over and over.

.

The question was...."What experience (achievements) does Obama have that would make you feel like he is cabable of being President"....and ...no....you, nor anyone else has answered that question...

Your own statement....

ive given dozens of reasons why i can overlook his relative lack of experince....

....proves the point better than we can....and contradicts your statement that you or anyone else CAN answer that question.

Hammer67
11-03-2008, 11:20 AM
The question was...."What experience (achievements) does Obama have that would make you feel like he is cabable of being President"....and ...no....you, nor anyone else has answered that question...

Your own statement....



....proves the point better than we can....and contradicts your statement that you or anyone else CAN answer that question.


I await the "But Palin...." response with bated breath.

tony hipchest
11-03-2008, 11:20 AM
By "attacking" Obama you must mean how people keep asking what achievements he has that would make one think that he is qualified....and as HTG has stated....a question that has been asked for months that has yet to be answered.

."attacking" in quotes huh? i wonder where you got that? you might atleast wanna try to get a quote right.

you guys are so melodramatic and hypersensitive about poor old sarah. why would you guys be so defensive? :chuckle: if she cant stand the heat, why did she step into the kitchen. its cute how you guys want her to be handled with kid gloves.

perhaps some still remeber (and maybe believe) all of the crap rush limbaugh and the rest of the right cronies spread about mccain. politics is rough and tough, and not made for those with thin skin, so i dont see how making sarah into a martyr helps strengthen your stance on why mccain is so great.

I await the "But Palin...." response with bated breath.

:rolleyes:

:coffee:

Hammer67
11-03-2008, 11:21 AM
There it is....lol.

tony hipchest
11-03-2008, 11:24 AM
The question was...."What experience (achievements) does Obama have that would make you feel like he is cabable of being President"....and ...no....you, nor anyone else has answered that question...

Your own statement....



....proves the point better than we can....and contradicts your statement that you or anyone else CAN answer that question.

:yawn: you said it so it must be true. :rolleyes: i guess if he can win the election he can be president now cant he? thats kinda how it works here in america. i guess we will see tomorrow and if you dont like the results, there is always mexico or canada. if thats not an option i guess you can always just try to deal. :tt02:

xfl2001fan
11-03-2008, 11:27 AM
you guys are so melodramatic and hypersensitive about poor old sarah. why would you guys be so defensive? :chuckle: if she cant stand the heat, why did she step into the kitchen. its cute how you guys want her to be handled with kid gloves.

perhaps some still remeber (and maybe believe) all of the crap rush limbaugh and the rest of the right cronies spread about mccain. politics is rough and tough, and not made for those with thin skin, so i dont see how making sarah into a martyr helps strengthen your stance on why mccain is so great.


I'm curious as to how you can attack Palin's inexperience when you can't answer to Obama's. I'm not asking her to be coddled. I don't think anyone else is either.

I'm still waiting for an answer to post #76. (That would be my post). Let me rehash/paraphrase:

If Palin (the #2) is bad for McCain because of her inexperience, what does that say about the entire Democratic party that Obama is your "lead" guy.

What Obama and Palin both would do should their respective side win are two very different jobs. Make your comparison/question of Palin to Biden (where in the experience department, she's at a huge loss...in the gaffe deparment, it's a tight race...)

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-03-2008, 11:35 AM
:yawn: you said it so it must be true. :rolleyes: i guess if he can win the election he can be president now cant he? thats kinda how it works here in america. i guess we will see tomorrow and if you dont like the results, there is always mexico or canada. if thats not an option i guess you can always just try to deal. :tt02:

So the answer to the question is to stick your tongue out and say "nanner-nanner if you dont like it move to a different country?"

Thank you for the intellectual response....you prove my points so much better than I ever could.

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-03-2008, 11:38 AM
"attacking" in quotes huh? i wonder where you got that? you might atleast wanna try to get a quote right.

you guys are so melodramatic and hypersensitive about poor old sarah. why would you guys be so defensive? :chuckle: if she cant stand the heat, why did she step into the kitchen. its cute how you guys want her to be handled with kid gloves.

perhaps some still remeber (and maybe believe) all of the crap rush limbaugh and the rest of the right cronies spread about mccain. politics is rough and tough, and not made for those with thin skin, so i dont see how making sarah into a martyr helps strengthen your stance on why mccain is so great.



:rolleyes:

:coffee:


It must be tough dodging the real issues...your stamina is amazing.

revefsreleets
11-03-2008, 11:41 AM
Ruh-roh...

This thread's about to get ugly....

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-03-2008, 11:45 AM
Ruh-roh...

This thread's about to get ugly....

I think your right.....when backing a left leaning wolverine into a corner with "facts" and "logic"....one should be prepared for sudden diversionary attacks and outrageous claims.

They might even tell you to move to Mexico....naw....that would be waaaayyy to immature.

Texasteel
11-03-2008, 11:46 AM
:yawn: you said it so it must be true. :rolleyes: i guess if he can win the election he can be president now cant he? thats kinda how it works here in america. i guess we will see tomorrow and if you dont like the results, there is always mexico or canada. if thats not an option i guess you can always just try to deal. :tt02:

Tony, you would have thrown a fit if someone made that comment to you. At least try to be even handed in you comments. If you don't like tomorrow results, I promise I will not suggest you leave the country.

tony hipchest
11-03-2008, 11:47 AM
[
I'm curious as to how you can attack Palin's inexperience when you can't answer to Obama's. I'm not asking her to be coddled. I don't think anyone else is either.

I'm still waiting for an answer to post #76. (That would be my post). Let me rehash/paraphrase:

If Palin (the #2) is bad for McCain because of her inexperience, what does that say about the entire Democratic party that Obama is your "lead" guy.

What Obama and Palin both would do should their respective side win are two very different jobs. Make your comparison/question of Palin to Biden (where in the experience department, she's at a huge loss...in the gaffe deparment, it's a tight race...)what part of it do you not get? the inexperince was not MY issue. it was primarilly the issue of the righties on this board who have WAY overrated experience. they think just because somebody like bush, cheney or rummy have so much experince they are perfect and could NEVER do no wrong.

after all their preaching about experience their perfectly experienced leader and savior went out and selected sarah palin.

*WHAP!* :rofl:

man was it funny. then to watch the hypocritical stance taken for porr ol palin was even funnier.

i admit i was a little skeptical to see the inexperienced tomlin take over the steelers, but he is a leader of men and people respond. ultimately i had to trust the judgement of the rooneys.

if the republicans win tomorrow it will be like brad johnson at the helm of the cowboys with brooks bollinger as his back up. everybody would be much more comfortable with romo back there as the qb of "americas team".

still gotta wait and see if romo, tomlin or obama can get past one and done in the "playoffs". that should come with experience. it did with the young inexperienced cowher.

but we dont even make the playoffs with mccain/palin.

its that simple for me.

LLT and HTG just cant be satisfied with that. that want more, more more, and they continue to beat this dead horse demanding and answer and for us to justify how we DARE vote for somebody with no experince. ive already kindly told them i dont owe them anything. if thats not good enough for you either, then so be it.

"how can you be a browns fan? huh? huh? tell me! i demand an answer and no matter what the answer is i will not accept it! so tell me now. how can you support such a team?" :wink02::sofunny::wave:

revefsreleets
11-03-2008, 11:54 AM
Whap?

It BECAME your issue as soon as the left took up the "Palin is a heartbeat away" rant.

It would have been better just to leave things be, but what ultimately happened was it became an Obama vs Palin fight over experience, which is an irrelevent battle, but does serve the GOP in that it elevates their candidate to the presidential level.

So, by enetering the argument, you fell into the trap (and "you" is in general, meaning any and all who actually waded into the quick sand) of having legitimized the whole "experience" argument in the first place.

When Obama's experience was in question, it wasn't a concern for the left, but when Palin entered the race, it became an issue, and by accepting the bait, you lowered your own Presidential candidate into the fray. There aren't any "do-overs". You can't go back and only talk about inexperience when it's the other guys candidate without acknowledging the same inexperience of your own. It's classic what's good for the goose is NOT what's good for the gander.

tony hipchest
11-03-2008, 11:57 AM
Tony, you would have thrown a fit if someone made that comment to you. At least try to be even handed in you comments. If you don't like tomorrow results, I promise I will not suggest you leave the country.please. moving outta country is a viable option for anybody who cant handle the democratic process here in america.

why would i throw a fit? :yawn: i already live in new mexico. i proudly support a mexican american governor, hell i have a daughter who is 1/4 mexican. my company is owned by mexicans and over half of my employees are too. its not such a bad thing....

im not the one throwing a fit because somebody is voting for somebody w/o experience.

tony hipchest
11-03-2008, 12:05 PM
Whap?

It BECAME your issue as soon as the left took up the "Palin is a heartbeat away" rant.

It would have been better just to leave things be, but what ultimately happened was it became an Obama vs Palin fight over experience, which is an irrelevent battle, but does serve the GOP in that it elevates their candidate to the presidential level.

So, by enetering the argument, you fell into the trap (and "you" is in general, meaning any and all who actually waded into the quick sand) of having legitimized the whole "experience" argument in the first place.

When Obama's experience was in question, it wasn't a concern for the left, but when Palin entered the race, it became an issue, and by accepting the bait, you lowered your own Presidential candidate into the fray. There aren't any "do-overs". You can't go back and only talk about inexperience when it's the other guys candidate without acknowledging the same inexperience of your own. It's classic what's good for the goose is NOT what's good for the gander.lol. if only it were that calculated and planned that way. in reality the selection ofr palin took away all the steam the right wing had in playing up obamas lack of experience. as soon as she was selected all their words rang hollow.

mosca, dan, and myself all pointed this out the day it happened.

again, bad move for the mccain camp. a move that may cost him an election. they coulda kept on hammering the experience issue instead of grasping at ayers and terrorism straws. im not sure how well hammering on obamas inexperience wouldve fared considering how well he did in the debates, but it woulda been worth a shot.

again the selection of palin left them shooting blanks. the left wing perceptions of her did nothing to hurt obama. she has virtually been ignored by their campaign other than obama saying to leave the poor woman and her family alone. :chuckle:

fansince'76
11-03-2008, 12:06 PM
please. moving outta country is a viable option for anybody who cant handle the democratic process here in america.

Like Michael Baldwin, Susan Sarandon, Janeane Garofalo, Barbra Streisand, et al.? Seems like the folks who actually have a problem with the democratic process in this country and are the most vocal about it sit decidedly left of center. WAY left of center. Too bad none of them ever acted on their threats.

Texasteel
11-03-2008, 12:11 PM
please. moving outta country is a viable option for anybody who cant handle the democratic process here in america.

why would i throw a fit? :yawn: i already live in new mexico. i proudly support a mexican american governor, hell i have a daughter who is 1/4 mexican. my company is owned by mexicans and over half of my employees are too. its not such a bad thing....

im not the one throwing a fit because somebody is voting for somebody w/o experience.


You darn well what I was saying, the love it or leave it mentality do not become you.

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-03-2008, 12:11 PM
what part of it do you not get? the inexperince was not MY issue. it was primarilly the issue of the righties on this board who have WAY overrated experience. they think just because somebody like bush, cheney or rummy have so much experince they are perfect and could NEVER do no wrong.

:

That is an opinion and was never posted by anyone on this board....a lie.

LLT and HTG just cant be satisfied with that. that want more, more more, and they continue to beat this dead horse demanding and answer and for us to justify how we DARE vote for somebody with no experince. ive already kindly told them i dont owe them anything. if thats not good enough for you either, then so be it.


actually ..several posts ago you claimed that you DID answer it...so which one is it?


You have twisted this whole debate to fit your tiny little world....Your frustration is evident in your rambling effort to vilify me.

There is NOTHING wrong with one party asking another party what are the qualifications of their presidential candidate...if that upsets you than I would do some soul-searching as to what it is about that question that makes you so defensive...

There is also NOTHING wrong with people pointing out the obvious logical error of trying to campare your Presidential candidates experience to that of the Republican VP candidate....instead of Presidential "candidate to candidate".

What we keep coming back to is that the Democratic "party of tolerance" has so far used sex....age...religion as reasons NOT to vote for McCain/Palin....there is a mean-spirited attempt by the "champions of social injustice" ... and yes...some of their followers.... to be very hypocritically in the way they have treated this election.

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-03-2008, 12:14 PM
please. moving outta country is a viable option for anybody who cant handle the democratic process here in america.

why would i throw a fit? :yawn: i already live in new mexico. i proudly support a mexican american governor, hell i have a daughter who is 1/4 mexican. my company is owned by mexicans and over half of my employees are too. its not such a bad thing....

im not the one throwing a fit because somebody is voting for somebody w/o experience.

You move around the issues so much...it looks like you are dancing.....another nice diversion from the facts.

tony hipchest
11-03-2008, 12:15 PM
Like Michael Baldwin, Susan Sarandon, Janeane Garofalo, Barbra Streisand, et al.? Seems like the folks who actually have a problem with the democratic process in this country and are the most vocal about it sit decidedly left of center. WAY left of center. Too bad none of them ever acted on their threats.
sure. they can all move. i dont like none of them anyways. they can go live with the pitts, and the cruises, and the madonnas for all i care. :thumbsup:

i dont rely on hollywood for political views. half of em are junkies anyways.

tony hipchest
11-03-2008, 12:18 PM
You move around the issues so much...it looks like you are dancing.....another nice diversion from the facts.so what "issues" are you talking about this time? :yawn: the same old tired ones you never let die?

"inexperienced""inexperienced""inexperienced""inexperienced""inexperienced""inexperienced""inexperienced""inexperienced""inexperienced""inexperienced""inexperienced""inexperienced""inexperienced""
inexperienced""inexperienced"

the fact is youre practically throwing a fit because nobody gives you reasons that you deem acceptable. GET OVER IT! :toofunny:

revefsreleets
11-03-2008, 12:19 PM
If Palin ruined McCain because of her inexperience, why is she all of a sudden the front-runner in 2012 for the GOP?

I think there's another level of strategy here that has escaped the Palin haters. There's no denying she did create a "Obama vs Palin" vibe.

I can see both sides of this one...I'm just not sure that Palin hurt McCain enough in one bloc that he might have lost from as much as she helped him gain from another bloc. She certainly appeased the Religious/conservative right...

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-03-2008, 12:22 PM
so what "issues" are you talking about this time? :yawn: the same old tired ones you never let die?

Yep...those pesky facts....

Perhaps you could enlighten us all again about how Obama has the "it" factor....and if he was on "Dancing with the Stars" you would give him a "10" because he has......"charisma"

tony hipchest
11-03-2008, 12:32 PM
Yep...those pesky facts....

Perhaps you could enlighten us all again about how Obama has the "it" factor....and if he was on "Dancing with the Stars" you would give him a "10" because he has......"charisma"the fact is you cant accept "it" and you cant get over "it". talk about fustration showing...

What we keep coming back to is that the Democratic "party of tolerance" has so far used sex...Bush....age..Bush.....religion...Bush....Not having the holier than thou..."i am always right, everybody else is always wrong", republicans have all the answers, platform as reasons NOT to vote for McCain/Palin....there is a mean-spirited attempt by the "champions of social injustice" ... and yes...some of their followers.... to be very hypocritically in the way they have treated this election.

there. fixed that for ya! :thumbsup:

Hawk Believer
11-03-2008, 12:34 PM
If Palin ruined McCain because of her inexperience, why is she all of a sudden the front-runner in 2012 for the GOP?
...

If Obama does win, I think that will be a very interesting story to follow. Will Republicans rally around her and make her their candidate 4 years from now? Will they groom her by providing her with more foriegn policy opportunities? Or will she dissapear into high lattitude obscurity?

The base seems to love her, but is that love born primarily out of contrast to a more moderate McCain?

It will be interesting to see what would happen in a 2012 Republican primary with Palin. If, of course, she is not elected to veep tommorrow.

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-03-2008, 12:49 PM
the fact is you cant accept "it" and you cant get over "it". talk about fustration showing...

What we keep coming back to is that the Democratic "party of tolerance" has so far used sex...Bush....age..Bush.....religion...Bush....Not having the holier than thou..."i am always right, everybody else is always wrong", republicans have all the answers, platform as reasons NOT to vote for McCain/Palin....there is a mean-spirited attempt by the "champions of social injustice" ... and yes...some of their followers.... to be very hypocritically in the way they have treated this election.

:

Wow....your debating techniques are getting more and more childish.....I will let your last display of intellectual prowess stand for itself in regards to political knowledge....I'm sure the lefts on this board are proud that you represent them with such poise and articulation.

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-03-2008, 12:54 PM
If Obama does win, I think that will be a very interesting story to follow. Will Republican rally around her and make her their candidate 4 years from now? Will they groom her by providing her wiht more forieng policy opportunities? Or will she dissapear into high lattitude obscurity?

The base seems to love her, but is that love born primarily out of contrast to a more moderate McCain?

It will be interesting to see what would happen in a 2012 Republican primary with Palin. If, of course, she is not elected to veep tommorrow.

Good question...If not elected...I, for one think that she slips back into the Alaskan landscape...and will be used every now and then as a voice for a portion of the conservative base.....she is so opposite of Obama/Biden...that she may be used as a firebrand...to say things from her position that those in the senate may not be able to get away with but which she would have no fear of reprisal from the senate floor.

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-03-2008, 01:04 PM
There it is....lol.

Great call!!!!:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit::rofl:

tony hipchest
11-03-2008, 01:13 PM
Wow....your debating techniques are getting more and more childish.....I will let your last display of intellectual prowess stand for itself in regards to political knowledge....I'm sure the lefts on this board are proud that you represent them with such poise and articulation.i can almost smell the hatred of all things democratic through the screen. :thumbsup: yeah, i think its time you go find another poster you can demand answers from 100 times, day after day, and then conviniently forget their responses and twist their words.

and quit crying about sex... age... and religion an using it as an excuse for why the dems arent voting for mccain.

he has no exit policy from iraq, hes represents bush' failed policies, and admitedly knows nothing about economics. plus has exercized horrible judgement. thats good enough for me.

take the log out of your own eye before trying to remove the splinter from mine.

tony hipchest
11-03-2008, 01:15 PM
Great call!!!!:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit::rofl:wow . bringing up palin in a palin thread. only a true nostradamus could predict that one :toofunny:

or did you actually forget you hijacked a palin thread. :confused:

stay on track LLT. your wheels are coming off. :busted:

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-03-2008, 01:28 PM
wow. bringing up palin in a palin thread. only a true nostradamus could predict that one :toofunny:

or did you actually forget you hijacked a palin thread. :confused:

stay on track LLT. your wheels are coming off. :busted:

In Illinois...they sometimes have a "teachers assistant" to help the lowest common denominator when he/she gets behind....that way the rest of the class can move on and the other student can catch up later.

Instead of me trying to explain how the rest of us got to this point without you....just go back and read through the posts again...we may not wait for you...but we will be sympathetic.

revefsreleets
11-03-2008, 05:52 PM
If Obama does win, I think that will be a very interesting story to follow. Will Republicans rally around her and make her their candidate 4 years from now? Will they groom her by providing her with more foriegn policy opportunities? Or will she dissapear into high lattitude obscurity?

The base seems to love her, but is that love born primarily out of contrast to a more moderate McCain?

It will be interesting to see what would happen in a 2012 Republican primary with Palin. If, of course, she is not elected to veep tommorrow.

Obama came out of, quite literally, nowhere in '04, and, based on one good speech, is now going to be the most powerful man in the world.

Palin is WAY ahead of him on this one. 2 years to groom, learn, polish up...and provided Obama fails (and I believe he will), The GOP now cancels out the fact that Hillary is a woman (The obvious and natural challenger to a flailing and failed Obama presidency).

It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out...