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Dino 6 Rings
10-26-2008, 07:55 PM
My breakdown.

1-10 on 3rd downs. That is officially complete garbage.

3rd Quarter. 8:52 mark. 14-9 game. Move the ball to the Giants 43. Penalty Falst Start. Ball on the Giants 48. Get the first down, Penalty, Personal Foul. ball on the Steelers 47. 53 yard TD pass, Penalty, Holding, No TD, ball moved to the Steelers 37. Eventually punt. Had a chance to put them out of the game and blew it.

4th quarter up 14-9. 4th and 6 Giants have the ball on the Steelers 34 yard line. 30 yard pass play to Toomer. Gay blows the coverage. No pressure on Manning. Leads to a field goal instead of us having the ball.

4th quarter. up 14-12, ball on our 30. 3 and out, including another sack. Long snap over the head. Safety. Pathetic offensive drive.

0-4 on 4th down. Just Sad.

Ben 4 INTs, including the last prayer ball. That equals a loss almost every time.

Gave up 5 sacks. Horrible, Ben held onto the ball too long on at least 2 of them.

Defense, 0 Sacks. Not good.

Defense, 0 turnovers. Not good enough.

Washington, 1 catch. Yes for a TD but it was still, only 1 catch.

Ward, only 3 catches. That won't win it for us.

8 penalties for 59 yards. Unacceptable.

Steelman16
10-26-2008, 08:00 PM
Them's the facts.

The only bright spot was the D. They did a good job containing B. Jacobs and the Giants running game. I thought they could have gotten a little more pressure on Eli, because we all saw what happened to him the few times he had someone in his face.

We get more pressure on Eli, and I think you're looking at a sack or two, or even a turnover.

On our side, Ben took a pounding today as usual. He seemed a little off his game, and it showed.

I thought the O-line played decent, but had sporadic bursts of incompentency, which killed us, especially in the 4th quarter.

It's a loss, it hurts. However, we're 5-2 and still atop the division. Washington has looked quite beatable lately.

X-Terminator
10-26-2008, 08:04 PM
3rd Quarter. 8:52 mark. 14-9 game. Move the ball to the Giants 43. Penalty Falst Start. Ball on the Giants 48. Get the first down, Penalty, Personal Foul. ball on the Steelers 47. 53 yard TD pass, Penalty, Holding, No TD, ball moved to the Steelers 37. Eventually punt. Had a chance to put them out of the game and blew it.

This right here was when the game started to go south. They score even a FG on that drive, and they are in complete control of the game. For that reason, this loss is going to leave a bit of a sour taste in my mouth, because it's one I feel they should have won. But that's where it ends - you won't see the absolute silliness out of me that you will see from the "sky is falling" crowd.

Dino 6 Rings
10-26-2008, 08:08 PM
This right here was when the game started to go south. They score even a FG on that drive, and they are in complete control of the game. For that reason, this loss is going to leave a bit of a sour taste in my mouth, because it's one I feel they should have won. But that's where it ends - you won't see the absolute silliness out of me that you will see from the "sky is falling" crowd.

I agree, it was the turning point in the game. We had a chance to put more points on the board, eat clock, take charge of the game completely and we had a massive let down.

I don't say the sky is falling. We lost this game. 5-2. If we were 0-7 I'd be ducking for cover, but this is a game we should have and could have won. Sour taste for sure.

devilsdancefloor
10-26-2008, 08:23 PM
lol sour taste for sure! we had it and blew our d played lights out man they where awesome stopping them on the goal line! but yes the sky isnt falling we are 5-2! My eldest son pointed this out to me when we lose i go outside and walk around talking to myself. am i crazy or does anyone else have these little "rituals" or hell i wil say it quirks? so for now i am off to go talk to myself:banging::banging::banging:

Dizzle43
10-26-2008, 08:26 PM
That about sums it up. Almost every one of those plays were made because of the "starters in waiting" as well.

steelmatic1906
10-26-2008, 08:29 PM
I agree with everything that was said, but this is the 2nd lost to basically the same style of defense. Please tell me why we cant figure out this blitz!!!! no screens, no draws no slants, or wr screens. -4yrds in the 4th qrt!!! Now thats completely unacceptable! Arians will be fired at seasons end!

Steel12
10-26-2008, 08:30 PM
Defense can't get the blame for any part of this loss. They gave us a chance to win and put them away and the Offense couldn't do it.

Steel12
10-26-2008, 08:31 PM
I agree with everything that was said, but this is the 2nd lost to basically the same style of defense. Please tell me why we cant figure out this blitz!!!! no screens, no draws no slants, or wr screens. -4yrds in the 4th qrt!!! Now thats completely unacceptable! Arians will be fired at seasons end!

Exactly!

rbryan
10-26-2008, 08:34 PM
Its my bad....I completely sold out for a PS win over OS......I had no mojo left for da Stillers.

I'll be ready to move on by Thursday.

X-Terminator
10-26-2008, 09:01 PM
I agree with everything that was said, but this is the 2nd lost to basically the same style of defense. Please tell me why we cant figure out this blitz!!!! no screens, no draws no slants, or wr screens. -4yrds in the 4th qrt!!! Now thats completely unacceptable! Arians will be fired at seasons end!

We could have run more slants or WR screens (which BTW I am not a huge fan of to begin with), but unfortunately the best player we have to run them with decided to have a few Mary Jane blunts in his car and got himself deactivated.

And no, Arians will not be fired at season's end. Get over it.

MillerMania83
10-26-2008, 09:14 PM
True dat about "blunt boy", it would have been nice to have him out there to run some of those slants to aleve some of the pressure....Gotta agree with the masses here also, the D WAS lights out today, they played incredible out there, although NO SACKS on Manning was disappointing, especially after how we have been getting to the QB all year long.

Dino 6 Rings
10-26-2008, 09:44 PM
Even without Holmes, we were in the game and should have won this thing. That's what's so dang disapointing. We had em, especially on that drive late in the 3rd. But NO, we had to go and get an efffing 15 yard penalty for roughness after the play, then a 10 yard holding and a 5 yard illegal formation on Ward on a freaking 1st down play. So pissssed about that mental breakdown in that series.

Even without our 1st string running back, 2nd string running back, 2 on the depth charts receiver, 2nd on the depth chart Right Guard, new Left Guard, New center, 3rd string Corner, 4th string corner...

we had the SB Champs on the ropes and couldn't get the knock out punch.

Freaking heck gosh darn it all to hades anyway.

stillers4me
10-26-2008, 09:49 PM
Freaking heck gosh darn it all to hades anyway.


Freaky......I was just thinking the same thing. :sofunny:

Seriously....... the Geeeeeeee-men were not all that impressive and we should have won that game. We had them........ and beat ourselves up badly in the end.

stlrtruck
10-27-2008, 01:32 PM
If it wasn't for our defense, this game could have gotten worse.

I want to know why when our defense rushes, we still play soft coverage, giving up the quick slants and such. If you noticed yesterday, the Giants defense when they blitzed, they played tight coverage, taking away the quick passes.

steelreserve
10-27-2008, 01:36 PM
Gay blows

Add a comma, and you've described the effort by our entire offense. That was our problem.

moedap
10-27-2008, 03:24 PM
Team Stat Comparison
NY PITT
1st Downs 14 12
3rd down efficiency 6-17 1-10
4th down efficiency 1-2 0-4
Total Yards 282 249
Passing 199 154
Comp-Att 19-32 13-29
Yards per pass 6.2 5.3
Rushing 83 95
Rushing Attempts 35 22
Yards per rush 2.4 4.3
Penalties 7-71 8-59
Turnovers 0 4
Fumbles lost 0 0
Interceptions thrown 0 4
Possession 34:24 25:36

It was a good loss.

Steelerfreak58
10-27-2008, 03:37 PM
I agree with everything that was said, but this is the 2nd lost to basically the same style of defense. Please tell me why we cant figure out this blitz!!!! no screens, no draws no slants, or wr screens. -4yrds in the 4th qrt!!! Now thats completely unacceptable! Arians will be fired at seasons end!

No doubt! Arians is crap calling.

CargoJon
10-27-2008, 03:41 PM
Two things:

1. The holding penalty on what would have been the 2nd TD pass to Washington. Willie Colon, you cost us this game.

2. We played like complete 100% crap, and still almost beat the SB Champs. Take away one interception, one penalty, one sack, we could have won this thing. That bodes well for us going forward if we can get our ducks in a row.

SteelMember
10-27-2008, 03:45 PM
3rd and 4th down conversions were terrible.

Penalties for sure, especially false starts. Ben dosen't help them out any with his long snap counts. Seven games into the season and we are still taking entirely too many pre-snap penalties.

Gotta also agree with the drive in the 3rd being a turning point.

All valid points Dino, except for the giants 4th down play imo. I believe Carter was supposed to give deep help on that one. He was obviously late getting there.

lilyoder6
10-27-2008, 04:10 PM
any team having there qb throw 4 picks in 1 game will kill there chances 2 win.. ben is a great qb, but i think he needs to check himself once in a while and not get too greedy and try to make things happens.. i mean the past few games he was mistake-free for the most part, and not last night 5 sacks and 4 int's...

stlrtruck
10-27-2008, 04:25 PM
Two things:

1. The holding penalty on what would have been the 2nd TD pass to Washington. Willie Colon, you cost us this game.

Yeah, Ben throwing 4 INTs (I know 1 was not directly his fault and the other was at the end of the game but it's 4 none-the-less) had nothing to do with us losing.

One play, penalty or otherwise doesn't lose the game. What about a few of those drives that ended because the offense in general couldn't get a 4th down or the defense having sloppy tackling on third downs.

It's not just Willie's fault - it's the entire team effort that cost this L!

tony hipchest
10-27-2008, 05:48 PM
good breakdown dino.

i gotta add the td play to boss. that play to the TE inside the 10 yard line works 9 outta 10 times against the steelers. its the biggest hole in our zone blitz that there isnt any answer for. just a part of the package.

its been that way going back to frank wycheck and the oilers. :noidea:

steelreserve
10-27-2008, 06:02 PM
good breakdown dino.

i gotta add the td play to boss. that play to the TE inside the 10 yard line works 9 outta 10 times against the steelers. its the biggest hole in our zone blitz that there isnt any answer for. just a part of the package.

its been that way going back to frank wycheck and the oilers. :noidea:

True, it always seems like that's a huge problem for us.

One instance in particular that stands out in my mind is the Atlanta game a couple years ago when Algee Fatass Crumpler went wild on us for 3 TDs and we ultimately lost. It made me want to rip a chair out of my head and throw my hair through the TV screen.

Preacher
10-27-2008, 06:03 PM
Pretty good breakdown.

However, I would also remind you that Gay broke up a TD pass just after he blew the coverage, so while he cost us three, he stopped 4 other points. Not bad, should be better, but let's give some credit back to him. After all, we were asking a 4th string player to cover a good receiver on that play, and he was just about a yard off the guy. That can be fixed with experience... hopefully.

The Colon holding penalty that cost us a TD. People. Go back and look at the play. If Colon doesn't tackle that guy, Ben is on his back. It is either a hold or a sack. There is no TD. Period. We need a new RT.

I agree there is just something not right with our offense. However, I still say its the line. It has caused our receivers to always be looking over their shoulders for Ben being in trouble. It has caused our RB's to have to stay in and block someone instead of swinging out farther for a dump. It has caused teams to feel like they can pin their ears back and come after us.

Our receivers also can't take the time to put double-moves on backs, run deep patterns, etc., because chances are, Ben will be on his back.

When you run short plays ALL the time, you can load up, not the box, but the 10 yards from teh LOS.. .and it shuts down the offense. You have to go over the top to change that, and we just don't have the confidence to do that often right now.

We have a start with this line. I really like Kemo and Stapleton at the Guards. They seem to have stablized Hartwig, which hopefully will make him even better. So we have to take care of the two tackle positions in the offseason.

Dino 6 Rings
10-27-2008, 06:09 PM
Ok, I concede that I shouldn't have thrown Gay (who I am a fan of, Big East kid) under the bus. And maybe he should have had help over the top. But I also included lack of any pressure on ELI on a huge 4th down play. That entire Defensive play was a let down. That negated the Goal line stance earlier in the game in my opinion. (Which by the way had me doing my best Gandolph impression screaming at the TV "YOU SHALL NOT PASS" my wife laughed)

Anyway. I broke the game down, and in another play calling thread, I pointed out that our biggest weakness on offense has been on 1st down. Look at it for the entire season, we are not getting enough push on 1st down in the running game or passing game. And the Sacks on 1st down kill drives. As to penalties and incompletions. Just drive killers every time.

I would like to see a little more of the standard 3 wide sets. Less of the bunch stuff, for a change of pace, and more screens, I kind of miss the days of us being the best Screen team in the NFL.

Preacher
10-27-2008, 06:23 PM
Ok, I concede that I shouldn't have thrown Gay (who I am a fan of, Big East kid) under the bus. And maybe he should have had help over the top. But I also included lack of any pressure on ELI on a huge 4th down play. That entire Defensive play was a let down. That negated the Goal line stance earlier in the game in my opinion. (Which by the way had me doing my best Gandolph impression screaming at the TV "YOU SHALL NOT PASS" my wife laughed)

Anyway. I broke the game down, and in another play calling thread, I pointed out that our biggest weakness on offense has been on 1st down. Look at it for the entire season, we are not getting enough push on 1st down in the running game or passing game. And the Sacks on 1st down kill drives. As to penalties and incompletions. Just drive killers every time.

I would like to see a little more of the standard 3 wide sets. Less of the bunch stuff, for a change of pace, and more screens, I kind of miss the days of us being the best Screen team in the NFL.

Problem is, you need good lineman to run a screen. I just don't know if we have that yet.

Well, I guess the Defense wouldn't suspect anything when they get passed our line in after a 2 count.! :chuckle:

BozMan
10-27-2008, 11:35 PM
3rd and 4th down conversions were terrible.

Penalties for sure, especially false starts. Ben dosen't help them out any with his long snap counts. Seven games into the season and we are still taking entirely too many pre-snap penalties.

Gotta also agree with the drive in the 3rd being a turning point.

All valid points Dino, except for the giants 4th down play imo. I believe Carter was supposed to give deep help on that one. He was obviously late getting there.

Good point. If guys like Willie Colon cannot stay still in their pre-snap stances, why have long snap counts? Just increases the chances of someone moving too soon.

On a related note, I remember there being a graphic during the Jax game stating that we lead the league in delay of game penalties. Not good, and another reason to not have a long snap count.

I guess the upside of a long snap count is that it gives Ben more time to read the defense and audible to another play or protection scheme. But it also gives the D more time to adjust as well.

VegasStlrFan
10-27-2008, 11:49 PM
Not gonna beat the Offensive drum anymore everyone's talking about it. I will beat on the Defensive drum though, best in the league by far. I am more confident of getting points on the board from the D's play right now than I am from the O. Nice Breakdown on the stats by the way!

Dino 6 Rings
10-28-2008, 01:10 PM
Problem is, you need good lineman to run a screen. I just don't know if we have that yet.

Well, I guess the Defense wouldn't suspect anything when they get passed our line in after a 2 count.! :chuckle:

They aren't even trying to run screens though, that bothers the heck out of me. Willie is great on screens, or at least he was when we ran them, and Moore is steady in them too, he's used to running them. Draws as well. But not the 3rd and long draws, I'm talking a 2nd and short when we have the bunch formation and the defense is looking pass, how about a draw, or something with the freaking imagination.

I mean, if we aren't going to line up in an I formation and dare people to stop us, at least run some imaginative stuff on downs the defense is pinning its ears back.

Seriously. I've been refraining from bashing the play calling, but dang it, in both our losses, it was the Offense that was the major let down, and that goes from the center all the way up to the guy calling the plays.

DACEB
10-28-2008, 06:45 PM
I would like to see a little more of the standard 3 wide sets. Less of the bunch stuff, for a change of pace, and more screens, I kind of miss the days of us being the best Screen team in the NFL.

I've stated in plenty of posts how much I can't stand the bunch formations. The bunch formations make it difficult for the O-line to determine who to block. They basically align all the defenders in the box. These formations cannot be the staple of our offense.

I'm with you on more 3WR sets. This along with some quick passes, WR screens, gets the defenders out of the box. These formations spread the defense out and enables us to use the whole field. There is no doubt the O-line blocks much better in those situations. These formations are a big reason the no-huddle works so well for us.

How about setting the defense up for the long play. Running the ball and throwing short passes out of similar formations to set up the long ball. Use more motion to show what the defense is doing. How about putting Miller in motion more often or lining him up in the slot, utilizing him more like Dallas Clark. Miller could also move from the slot back to the line of scrimmage. These are all various ways of disguising the play and setting the defense up later in the game.

There's no denying that this offense has too many weapons to continually stall, even against top notch competition. There are certain plays that should be practiced and run to near perfection out of different formations. Those plays are the ones being discussed in this thread; the screens to the RB and WRs, the draw plays and quick slants. These are the plays that will get our offense out of trouble against the blitz happy teams.

Great stats Dino, great thread.

DACEB
10-29-2008, 02:40 PM
I kind of miss the days of us being the best Screen team in the NFL.

What about one or two running plays that are pretty much can't miss. Doesn't anyone practice certain plays like Lombardi used to? You know, to the point you can't get it wrong, no matter what the D throws at you.

Dino 6 Rings
10-30-2008, 12:42 PM
What about one or two running plays that are pretty much can't miss. Doesn't anyone practice certain plays like Lombardi used to? You know, to the point you can't get it wrong, no matter what the D throws at you.

Arians needs to go watch the footage of the 65 Toss Power Trap ala Hank Stram.

Heck yeah, 65 Toss Power Trap...works every time!

:tt02:

SteelMember
10-30-2008, 01:52 PM
Arians needs to go watch the footage of the 65 Toss Power Trap ala Hank Stram.

Heck yeah, 65 Toss Power Trap...works every time!

:tt02:

:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny:

Matriculate it down the field boys.