PDA

View Full Version : If it was Obama, would it be a hate crime?


Preacher
10-29-2008, 01:26 AM
A West Hollywood Halloween display showing a likeness of Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin hanging by a noose has caused a furor among some residents who reported it as a hate crime, authorities said Monday.

But Los Angeles County sheriff's officials said the mannequin sporting a beehive hairdo, glasses and a red coat does not rise to the level of a hate crime because it was part of a Halloween display.




"I'm not defending this; I'm not criticizing it. It doesn't rise to the level of hate crime," said Steve Whitmore, spokesman for the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, who said he went out to the house himself to look at the display this morning.

"Now, if there was a crime against bad taste . . . "

Sgt. Kristin Aloma of the Sheriff's Department's West Hollywood station said that since Sunday she had received five to 10 calls from residents offended by the display. Officials are monitoring the house to make sure the situation doesn't get out of hand, she said.

West Hollywood Mayor Jeffrey Prang said although he recognizes residents' right to free speech, he found the display problematic and felt it should be removed.

"While these residents have the legal right to display Senator John McCain and Governor Sarah Palin in effigy, I strongly oppose political speech that references violence -- real or perceived," Prang said in a statement. "I urge these residents to take down their display and find more constructive ways to express their opinion."

Whitmore said that potential hate crimes are evaluated on a case-by-case basis. If the same display had been made of a Barack Obama-like doll, for example, authorities would have to evaluate it independently, Whitmore said.

"That adds a whole other social, historical hate aspect to the display, and that is embedded in the consciousness of the country," he said, adding he's not sure whether it would be a hate crime. "It would be ill-advised of anybody to speculate on that."

ChadMichael Morrisette, who lives in the house, told a local TV news crew that cars and buses have been stopping near his home and that people have been snapping photos of the Halloween display.

The home's decorations also feature a doll of John McCain surrounded by decorative flames in the chimney, and other more typical Halloween items, such as skeletons and spider webs.

Kim is a Times staff writer.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-palineffigy28-2008oct28,0,541630.story

stlrtruck
10-29-2008, 07:42 AM
Just goes to prove the high sensitivity issues of this country and the "me" mentality that has infected society.
It "offended" me and I demand that I be vindicated.
I could be offended every day by things that I read here or things that I see at work - but sooner or later people have to stop being so sensitive or htis country will end up in a hand basket quicker than someone can say, "I guess I should have thought!"

HometownGal
10-29-2008, 08:03 AM
I think that "display" is in extremely poor taste and the moron who put it up there should take it down out of respect for his neighbor's feelings, but quite honestly, I don't view it as "hating" on McCain/Palin. I view it more as the guy looking for attention by the media and he succeeded.

On the flip side of the coin, however, I do believe that if someone put up a "display" like that of Do Nuttin and Juice, it would have been torn down faster than you can say "present" and the outcry would have been heard all the way here in the Burgh.

j-dawg
10-29-2008, 08:31 AM
This display is at a house on the corner of Fountain and Orange Grove, right down the street from me. It's always decked out for the various holidays, but I agree, it's in poor taste. The local news station interviewed the residents and they think their making some kind of political statement. Make a donation ass hats, volunteer for the campaign. This seriously is disgusting. On the other side of the roof they've got a great "Nightmare before Christmas" display... to bad they didn't stick to what Halloween is SUPPOSED to be about.

Godfather
10-29-2008, 08:41 AM
I think that "display" is in extremely poor taste and the moron who put it up there should take it down out of respect for his neighbor's feelings, but quite honestly, I don't view it as "hating" on McCain/Palin. I view it more as the guy looking for attention by the media and he succeeded.

On the flip side of the coin, however, I do believe that if someone put up a "display" like that of Do Nuttin and Juice, it would have been torn down faster than you can say "present" and the outcry would have been heard all the way here in the Burgh.

If these guys want media attention, give them their wish. Vet them as thoroughly as Joe the Plumber. Dig into everything right down to parking tickets.

revefsreleets
10-29-2008, 08:48 AM
"Hate Crime" is one of the most ridiculously idiotic PC travesties ever foisted off on the American public. If I beat up a white guy, I get 3 years, but if I beat up a black guy, I get 20?

Really? Crime is crime...the motivation can never be a sweeping generalized thing and ALWAYS needs to be taken on a case-by-case basis.

Leftoverhard
10-29-2008, 08:56 AM
I just saw this on the news, stupid, stupid. I see nothing funny, ironic, whatever about hanging Palin by a noose. Of course, not a hate crime, it's a dummy but really lame.
I have to say if it was a fake Obama, it would be even lamer (and haven't there been a few of those too) because of the symbolism - but I have to say it really bums me out that these guys clearly really think this through. Idiots.

tony hipchest
10-29-2008, 09:19 AM
hanging palin from a noose in effigy- dumb, uncreative, pretty classless.

having mccain effigy rising from the firey chimney as if he were satan clause himself- creative, a bit more funny, but still pretty tasteless.

osama bin laden is the true enemy here. why not just hang a terrorist looking old towelhead with a giant beard? sure, i guess it could still be labeled a "hate crime" but nobody has any sympathy for bin laden and these guys holiday yard "art" could be appreciated by all.

im gonna hang plastic pink flamingos from nooses in my tree. :noidea:

revefsreleets
10-29-2008, 09:24 AM
There is no such thing as a hate crime.

Leftoverhard
10-29-2008, 09:31 AM
While I think the line can be pretty fuzzy, there are indeed such things as hate crimes and IMO they are very obviously so.

revefsreleets
10-29-2008, 09:40 AM
Ridiculous. It's PC rubbish. First off, there's a complete double standard, practically NEVER see it prosecuted for black on white crime.

Most importantly, if all violent crimes are the result of the perpetrator's contempt for the victim, then all crimes are hate crimes. Thus if there is no alternate rationale for prosecuting some people more harshly for the same crime based on who the victim is, then different defendants treated unequally under the law, which violates the United States Constitution.

Each crime should be judged on it's own. These huge generalities in the name of political correctness do a thousand times more damage than good.

tony hipchest
10-29-2008, 09:46 AM
There is no such thing as a hate crime.tell that to the family of the black man who was drug behind a pick up truck in texas (several years back) until his body was meat and his head fell off.

revefsreleets
10-29-2008, 09:55 AM
tell that to the family of the black man who was drug behind a pick up truck in texas (several years back) until his body was meat and his head fell off.

The case should have been judged on it's own merits. If a white man would have commited the SAME EXACT crime against another white man, should he get less time? More time?

It should be viewed the same regardless of race, and judged alone on it's own circumstances/merits.

It was a particularly brutal crime, and it should be judged more harshly based on the brutality of it. The races of the people involved are irrelevant. Justice is suppose to be blind...Lady Justice is now allowed to peak to see what race/sexual orientation the victim is?

I don't think so.

PC garbage.

Leftoverhard
10-29-2008, 10:01 AM
Ridiculous. It's PC rubbish. First off, there's a complete double standard, practically NEVER see it prosecuted for black on white crime.

There's a reason for that. White people have not been persecuted by black people.

Most importantly, if all violent crimes are the result of the perpetrator's contempt for the victim, then all crimes are hate crimes.

The difference is, the victim isn't seen as one person, the victim is seen as a whole group of people that the perpetrator hates i.e gays, blacks, jews, etc...
Of course all violent crimes deserve special attention to detail - why it angers people is beyond me.

revefsreleets
10-29-2008, 10:11 AM
There's a reason for that. White people have not been persecuted by black people.



The difference is, the victim isn't seen as one person, the victim is seen as a whole group of people that the perpetrator hates i.e gays, blacks, jews, etc...
Of course all violent crimes deserve special attention to detail - why it angers people is beyond me.


You cannot prosecute an individual case based on racial history. Are you KIDDING me? That's one of the weakest arguments I've ever heard. The sins of the father ARE NOT the sins of the son. You are going to have to try much, much harder than that.

In fact, if we continue to get into this, I can make a strong case that "hate crime" law is actually a political tool for minorities to accomplish other goals. And how prosecuting hate crimes might actually be double jeopardy. There are tons of flaws to be exposed here if you want to keep going...

Leftoverhard
10-29-2008, 10:33 AM
You cannot prosecute an individual case based on racial history. Are you KIDDING me? That's one of the weakest arguments I've ever heard. The sins of the father ARE NOT the sins of the son. You are going to have to try much, much harder than that.

In fact, if we continue to get into this, I can make a strong case that "hate crime" law is actually a political tool for minorities to accomplish other goals. And how prosecuting hate crimes might actually be double jeopardy. There are tons of flaws to be exposed here if you want to keep going...

Blah, we can argue and argue here until our hair turns blue, I'm not interested, I just stated my opinion. I can see valid points on the other side of this issue but enough said for me here especially when you start with the capital letters. Not to mention that you completely twisted what I said - Read what I said again, I guess. I'm not sure why but I expect a more levelheaded argument from you.

revefsreleets
10-29-2008, 10:38 AM
Interesting. Not interested in learning new things and a different perspective that may change your opinion?

Alrighty then...

j-dawg
10-29-2008, 10:52 AM
I gotta go with revefsreleets here... all crime is brought on by hate. Like he said, every case is unique and it should be viewed that way. Crime is crime.

vasteeler
10-29-2008, 10:58 AM
imo its halloween there is nothing wrong with hanging anybodys likenss from a noose, dang people lighten up

xfl2001fan
10-29-2008, 11:02 AM
Maybe the entire population of Whites was never persecuted, but I was a minority in my high school (as a white guy) and I can tell you, there was persecution based on the color of my skin.

Not by everybody, but by enough of the right people (to include staff members) to make certain moments of my HS years...forgettable.

Hate is Hate. Crime is Crime. And only the real nutjobs truly enjoy crimes they commit without malice/hate in their heart. For everyone else, a violent crime against another person is always a hate crime.

cubanstogie
10-29-2008, 11:19 AM
You cannot prosecute an individual case based on racial history. Are you KIDDING me? That's one of the weakest arguments I've ever heard. The sins of the father ARE NOT the sins of the son. You are going to have to try much, much harder than that.

In fact, if we continue to get into this, I can make a strong case that "hate crime" law is actually a political tool for minorities to accomplish other goals. And how prosecuting hate crimes might actually be double jeopardy. There are tons of flaws to be exposed here if you want to keep going...

the only crime that appears to be insignificant is the crime against white hetrosexuals. IIt is crazy that the punishment is more severe if the victim is gay, or a minority. These people you are arguing with are actually the ones disriminating. All these groups like to single themselves out with there groups or associations and always want special treatment. So many special parades and marches out there yet if white males started a parade we would be labeled racists. I am coming the the conclusion that people don't start out racist or hating gays. The longer they live and the more crap gets forced down their throats they start getting angrier and become racist. I see that happening to myself.

tony hipchest
10-29-2008, 11:21 AM
i think were really getting into semantics here.

i mean is "hate crime" being used as a noun or an adjective?

i think a generic term that was descriptive has now evolved into a specific "thing" (touching on revs point that that "thing" shouldnt cary weight in court.

to me "hate crime" is to describe a meaningless crime that appears to have no motive or reason whatsoever other than sheer hatred of the victim.

cubanstogie
10-29-2008, 11:22 AM
imo its halloween there is nothing wrong with hanging anybodys likenss from a noose, dang people lighten up

tell that to blacks if it was Obama was hanging from a noose. inappropriate all the way!

Leftoverhard
10-29-2008, 11:25 AM
i think were really getting into semantics here.

i mean is "hate crime" being used as a noun or an adjective?

i think a generic term that was descriptive has now evolved into a specific "thing" (touching on revs point that that "thing" shouldnt cary weight in court.

to me "hate crime" is to describe a meaningless crime that appears to have no motive or reason whatsoever other than sheer hatred of the victim.

Very well said.

Steel Duck
10-29-2008, 02:29 PM
THIS DID HAPPEN TO OBAMA...And funny, I didn't see any of you crying about it then!!!!!!

http://i36.tinypic.com/2rqmwxu.jpg



Fairfield City Leaders Condemn Anti-Obama Display

Last Update: 10/22 9:35 am

Related Video | Print Story | Email Story

Racist Anti-Obama Display Hung From Tree in Fairfield

Fairfield City and school district leaders have "condemned" the actions of a Fairfield resident who last week displayed a ghost with Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama's name on it — hanging from a tree by a noose.

Local 12 Reporter Shawn Ley was the first to speak with Mike Lunsford last week about his display, which Lunsford says was first intended to be a Halloween decoration. Lunsford later decided to write "Hussain" in green marker on it, misspelling Obama's middle name. He also attached part of a campaign yard sign with Obama's last name to his ghost decoration.

Lunsford refused to speak to Local 12 on camera, saying he was worried his views could hurt his employers business ... but he says make no mistake: He doesn't want an African American running the country. Lunsford says he believes Barack Obama is not a "full blooded American." And he says the United States is a white, Christian nation - and only with white Christians should be in power. Lunsford also says he's motivated by the national media which he says is pro-Obama.

Fairfield police received calls from neighbors and passersby but decided Lunsford had not committed any crime. Our partners at the Journal News spoke with Fairfield Police Chief Mike Dickey, who says a Secret Service investigation determined there was no threat to the presidential candidate and is protected under the First Amendment right to freedom of speech.

However, the city's mayor, city council and Fairfield school district leaders decided to speak out against Lunsford's display. In an e-mail on Monday, Oct. 20, school district Superintendent Cathy Milligan and Fairfield school board President Mark Morris wrote, "Standing up against racism makes Fairfield a better place for our employees to work and for our students to learn and grow."

Mayor Ron D'Epifanio, along with city council members, wanted people to know they do not agree with Lunsford's display. In a statement issued on Monday, the mayor and city council members said: "This individual's isolated opinion, as depicted in a yard display, does not represent the values of our community."

The story about Lunsford's display first appeared on Local 12 on Thursday, Oct. 16, and national media stories quickly followed. Because of that attention, Lunsford said he moved the ghost and its noose from the tree to a chair next to his porch on Friday. Someone stole the "Obama" sign from his display since then, Lunsford said.

http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=39c3f3ee-24f8-4126-9ea8-f8b18ef1c2d1

X-Terminator
10-29-2008, 02:52 PM
THIS DID HAPPEN TO OBAMA...And funny, I didn't see any of you crying about it then!!!!!!

That couldn't possibly be because of the fact that you were the first to bring this story to light, could it?

At any rate, I'm pretty sure this guy isn't the only one who has such a display, and there are millions of people who share his views.

Steel Duck
10-29-2008, 02:56 PM
Typical....
I didn't post it because I didn't see the point. It got as much coverage in the media as this Palin look a like hanging, and to act as if you never heard about it is a little hard to believe....
The point is I didn't see anyone here crying about it...but I see a lot of it for Palin. I only mention it now to prove a point, and it looks like I did.

stlrtruck
10-29-2008, 03:24 PM
Either way, they are both in poor taste.

Doesn't matter who it is. As a society, I would have thought we are above such juvenile antics - but then again, this is politics so nothing should shock me.

Preacher
10-29-2008, 03:26 PM
Typical....
I didn't post it because I didn't see the point. It got as much coverage in the media as this Palin look a like hanging, and to act as if you never heard about it is a little hard to believe....
The point is I didn't see anyone here crying about it...but I see a lot of it for Palin. I only mention it now to prove a point, and it looks like I did.


Let me put it this way.

This is the first I have heard of it.

Too me, it is just as disgusting as the Palin effigy. Both show a hatred. Both show a belief, at some level, that the world would be better off without them.

The point of this thread, however, was to ask whether it would be considered a hate crime if what was done in effigy of Palin was done in effigy of Obama.

In this case, you answered the question, No.

I am glad. They need to be treated equally. If it is free speach, it is free speach for both. If it is a crime, it is a crime for both, if it is a hate-crime, then it is a hate crime for both.

That is all I ask.

Personally, While I believe it is free speech, I also think both should get a nice little visit from the secret service to just "remind them" that joking about killing a president or VP is a crime.

Steel Duck
10-29-2008, 03:31 PM
stlrtruck & Preacher
I couldn't agree with the two of you more!!!:hatsoff:

Hammer Of The GODS
10-29-2008, 03:31 PM
Typical....
I didn't post it because I didn't see the point. It got as much coverage in the media as this Palin look a like hanging, and to act as if you never heard about it is a little hard to believe....
The point is I didn't see anyone here crying about it...but I see a lot of it for Palin. I only mention it now to prove a point, and it looks like I did.

Hmmm. I have never seen it. Oh wait! I must be lying to ensure that I can still complain about the Palin dummy!?! What a joke. BOTH of these stories are new to me and I could give a shyte about both. The world is full of idiots! Am I supposed to keep track of them all?

Family guy used to be a show I liked to watch. But then the show equated a vote for McCain/Palin is akin to being a Nazi. I didn't come on here to tell everyone to boycot the show. I simply made the decision that " I " would no longer watch it. What right do I have to tell someone that because " I " don't like it that it shouldn't exist? People should get over it and find something constructive to do!

Preacher
10-29-2008, 03:39 PM
stlrtruck & Preacher
I couldn't agree with the two of you more!!!:hatsoff:

Thanks,

and honestly, I think you'd find that everyone posting here probably agrees with this.

The problem some have is the argument about "hate" crimes, and determining how to apply justice to a feeling.

I believe that you can only apply justice to the actions of a person, or intended actions.

So to prosecute someone for dragging someone else behind a truck, you prosecute for Murder. Since that person had to be bound and then again bound to the truck, it would have to be murder 1. That, in most states (should be all states IMO), carries the possibility of the death penalty. Regardless of whether the person doing the binding called the other guy a ni##er, Whit#y, Mou#ey Cra#ker, Chi#k, Sp#c, blah blah blah, how does that increase the crime? It was murder, and obviously not self defense. So prosecute for murder, convict him...

Then hold a party in town square and string him up from the highest Light pole until sundown. When little kids walk by and say, "why did that happen to him?" You answer, "because he hurt another human being."

Just watch ALL crimes against other people go down.

HometownGal
10-29-2008, 04:25 PM
Typical....
I didn't post it because I didn't see the point. It got as much coverage in the media as this Palin look a like hanging, and to act as if you never heard about it is a little hard to believe....
The point is I didn't see anyone here crying about it...but I see a lot of it for Palin. I only mention it now to prove a point, and it looks like I did.

Seriously, I didn't see it either, Steel Duck. If I had, I would have expressed the same sentiments as I did in my first post in this thread - it is in very poor taste. People who do this sort of thing should be on a psychiatrist's sofa on Halloween instead of handing out candy. :screwy:

xfl2001fan
10-29-2008, 05:12 PM
Crime is crime, hate is hate...and to add to it...stupid is stupid.

Both are stupid. I'm assuming that because we didn't hear a lot of national attention regarding the nObama thing, it wasn't parlayed as a racist hate crime. That's good. Maybe there is more movement away from the seperate but equal thing that appears to be going on.

X-Terminator
10-29-2008, 05:22 PM
Typical....
I didn't post it because I didn't see the point. It got as much coverage in the media as this Palin look a like hanging, and to act as if you never heard about it is a little hard to believe....
The point is I didn't see anyone here crying about it...but I see a lot of it for Palin. I only mention it now to prove a point, and it looks like I did.

How is it typical? It's the first I'd heard of this story, which is what I thought I was saying in that post. Unlike you, I'm not a media hound, so there are a lot of things that I don't hear about or hear about second-hand. Saying that this was the first I'd heard of it does NOT mean that I'm surprised or don't think it had happened to Obama. I don't like or trust Obama, but I sure as hell don't approve of it, just as I don't approve of the one about McCain/Palin. These people are ignorant jackholes, and they're using Halloween as an excuse to act like an idiot. And would you care to tell me how I'm wrong about this guy likely not being the only one who has a display like this or that millions of people share his views? Hell, I'm on record as saying that I don't think this country is ready for a black president, because we still have too many people who think it's Alabama circa 1840. Do you want to dispute that? Or will you just call me "typical" again?

Steel Duck
10-29-2008, 05:53 PM
Hell, I'm on record as saying that I don't think this country is ready for a black president, because we still have too many people who think it's Alabama circa 1840. Do you want to dispute that? Or will you just call me "typical" again?

Yes, I am going to dispute that...You're basically saying right here that it's all about race..It's not about race for me, it's about who best represents my personal beliefs and issues.
And as long as people vote according to those "1840 Alabamans", we will never progress beyond skin color.

X-Terminator
10-29-2008, 06:04 PM
Yes, I am going to dispute that...You're basically saying right here that it's all about race..It's not about race for me, it's about who best represents my personal beliefs and issues.
And as long as people vote according to those "1840 Alabamans", we will never progress beyond skin color.

If you really think that a lot of people aren't going to take his skin color into consideration when they press that button in the voting booth, then you're just naive. Race is absolutely a factor in the minds of many Americans.

Steel Duck
10-29-2008, 06:09 PM
If you really think that a lot of people aren't going to take his skin color into consideration when they press that button in the voting booth, then you're just naive. Race is absolutely a factor in the minds of many Americans.

As long as people expect it to be a factor it will.....I think that's sad.

X-Terminator
10-29-2008, 06:11 PM
As long as people expect it to be a factor it will.....I think that's sad.

It is sad, but then again I don't live on Fantasy Island with delusions of grandeur. I'm a realist. And in this case, reality bites.

Steel Duck
10-29-2008, 06:19 PM
It is sad, but then again I don't live on Fantasy Island with delusions of grandeur. I'm a realist. And in this case, reality bites.

Hoping that there may be a day when race is not a factor, is not living on fantasy island...having delusions of grandeur... or even not being a realist. It's about looking towards the future, and looking forward to the day when we as human beings as a whole have evolved enough to see the qualities in a human being and not the color of their skin.

X-Terminator
10-29-2008, 06:26 PM
Hoping that there may be a day when race is not a factor, is not living on fantasy island...having delusions of grandeur... or even not being a realist. It's about looking towards the future, and looking forward to the day when we as human beings as a whole have evolved enough to see the qualities in a human being and not the color of their skin.

You're still missing the point. We have made great strides in race relations in this country, obviously, but the fact remains that there are still people - a LOT of people - who haven't gotten the memo yet. That's just the way it is. Or do you actually believe that the guy in the story you posted is the only guy in America who thinks like that? If so, then yeah, I think Fantasy Island still applies.

cubanstogie
10-29-2008, 06:36 PM
Hoping that there may be a day when race is not a factor, is not living on fantasy island...having delusions of grandeur... or even not being a realist. It's about looking towards the future, and looking forward to the day when we as human beings as a whole have evolved enough to see the qualities in a human being and not the color of their skin.

one of the reasons race is a factor is because of blacks constantly bringing it up. They were wronged how many years ago? We are now responsible for what our ancestors did. Its not just blacks, mexicans come here waving their flag and many times illegally I might add and want to exploit our giving system. Look at our public schools and how many languages have to be taught for all the aliens. Yes there are racists in all groups, it is sad all the hate but it goes both ways. Million man march, oh I mean thousand man march. I believe it is a factor as well. You can hide under a rock and deny it but it doesn't change the fact that many people who aren't racist believe it is. I am glad slavery is over, blacks get to vote, ride on bus anywhere they want, on the other end of spectrum it upsets me that there are quotas that say what percentage of blacks, mexicans, gays, etc.. need to be hired in certain jobs such as police, fire and most civil service jobs. They don't always hire the most qualified. Those quotas IMO have taken civil rights a step backwards. It is a very imperfect world.

Preacher
10-29-2008, 06:46 PM
There is ignorance, hatred, and stupidity on both sides of the fence. There will be some that will vote FOR Obama JUST because he is black, and some that will vote AGAINST Obama just because he is black. Either way, it is ignorant.

I hope and pray for a day where that is NOT true. But right now, it is.

After all, the Klan is STILL active, the Neo-Nazi movement is STILL active. The hatred they represent is found in some black communities as well.

To turn a blind eye to that fact is to ignore the water rising and the sea wall crumbling.

Hammer Of The GODS
10-29-2008, 08:15 PM
Hoping that there may be a day when race is not a factor, is not living on fantasy island...having delusions of grandeur... or even not being a realist. It's about looking towards the future, and looking forward to the day when we as human beings as a whole have evolved enough to see the qualities in a human being and not the color of their skin.

Racism is a 2 way street!

Steel Duck
10-29-2008, 08:26 PM
Racism is a 2 way street!


Tell me where I said it wasn't.....

Preacher
10-29-2008, 08:29 PM
one of the reasons race is a factor is because of blacks constantly bringing it up. They were wronged how many years ago? We are now responsible for what our ancestors did.

I understand what you are saying. However, there is some credence in the argument. Follow this...

The argument is that the wealth of the nation itself was built on the backs of the slaves in the 17-19th centuries (and later the share-croppers). Yet, during that time, the black population was not allowed to profit from their own work. Instead, they were forced after slavery into ghettos and outskirts of towns by the seperate but equal laws. Meanwhile, the wealth of the nation built school buildings and education systems. The result was a black population that had to provide their own schools and property (because taxes and school levees are specific to towns or cities) out of their own work while the white schools (among a lot of other things) enjoyed the fruit of 200 years of their labor.

The result is poor, failing schools, both in the inner cities, and in the ghetto's in the 60's.

Intergration was supposed to solve that by giving the black children equal opportunity to equal eduction. However, it just caused more problems.

Again, the school issue is a microcosm of the larger issue of america profiting from slavery.

While I do NOT think that reperations or any such thing is the answer, I DO think we need to hear with a softer ear about the reprocussions of slavery.

On the other side... slavery has ALSO become an excuse for a number of things... but that is for another post. [/quote]

Its not just blacks, mexicans come here waving their flag and many times illegally I might add and want to exploit our giving system.

Actually, many of those are not "mexicans." They are from El Salvador, Guatamala, Nicarauga, Panama, etc. etc. To lump them as Mexicans makes a major mistake in how to fix the problem.

Dang it.... gotta go. I wil be back later.

MACH1
10-29-2008, 08:52 PM
Not to stir things up Preach. But what about the Native Indians, after all this was(is) their land first and were forced onto reservations or wiped out completely. They were also put into slavery.

tony hipchest
10-29-2008, 09:00 PM
I understand what you are saying. However, there is some credence in the argument. Follow this...

The argument is that the wealth of the nation itself was built on the backs of the slaves in the 17-19th centuries (and later the share-croppers). Yet, during that time, the black population was not allowed to profit from their own work. Instead, they were forced after slavery into ghettos and outskirts of towns by the seperate but equal laws. Meanwhile, the wealth of the nation built school buildings and education systems. The result was a black population that had to provide their own schools and property (because taxes and school levees are specific to towns or cities) out of their own work while the white schools (among a lot of other things) enjoyed the fruit of 200 years of their labor.

The result is poor, failing schools, both in the inner cities, and in the ghetto's in the 60's.

Intergration was supposed to solve that by giving the black children equal opportunity to equal eduction. However, it just caused more problems.

Again, the school issue is a microcosm of the larger issue of america profiting from slavery.

While I do NOT think that reperations or any such thing is the answer, I DO think we need to hear with a softer ear about the reprocussions of slavery..good post.

i wonder if rev. do wright ever touched on this topic in a sermon where the final message was that salvation through the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was the ultimate equalizer. :noidea: (sarcasm smiley here)

you know, sort of "the last shall be first and the fist shall be last" kind of message...

the bolded part made me think of the tuskegee syphyllis experiments and what might lead someone like rev wright to give some of his firey sermons and the repercussions of our govt bayond slavery.

revefsreleets
10-30-2008, 08:46 AM
Reeling this back in, we have a perfect litmus test here:

Palin is hung froma tree in effigy.
Obama is hung from a tree in effigy.

By definition, the people who support hate crime legislation are handcuffed into supporting a far harsher penalty for the person who hung Obama than the person who hung Palin.

Does that really make sense?

Hammer Of The GODS
10-30-2008, 10:13 AM
Preach, How long must a white man who is generations removed from slavery be shackled to the stigma of slavery?

I can absolutely agree that slavery helped build this country. But so has the efforts of EVERY soldier who has ever fought for this country! Yet, politicians who exploit the loyalty and bravery of the US soldier see them as nothing more than a pawn in a game of political chess. Some politicians ( the Clintons and Obama ) have nothing but contempt for the military. Now I ask you, where are the reperations and benefits for the families of those Americans who fought and died in the cival war in order to free the slaves? Todays soldier gets to come home to see yellow ribbons stuck to every car and they ask themselves..... If so many people supported me then how come my supplies were cut, how come I am fighting a war with no body armor? How come I have to depend on my family to send me the neccesities of life ie. razors, toothpaste, TOILETPAPER for christ sake? Sorry, but I have been around the world and what I've seen is more human suffering than you can imagine. I cannot and will not feel sorry for any race who already has so many programs in place to help them achieve the American dream only to piss it away and ask for more!

Slavery has been imposed on more than just the black race since the beginning of civalization. So how far do we go back to make the score even?

I say lets move on and let the American dream come true for those who are willing to work for it!

If you give a man a fish.................

xfl2001fan
10-30-2008, 10:17 AM
Fantastic post HotG

If you give a man a fish................. You probably took it from the wealthy fisherman and are a liberal/socialist/democrat.

(Couldn't resist...)

Steel Duck
10-30-2008, 10:21 AM
[SIZE="2"]Some politicians ( the Clintons and Obama ) have nothing but contempt for the military. Now I ask you, where are the reperations and benefits for the families of those Americans who fought and died in the cival war in order to free the slaves? Todays soldier gets to come home to see yellow ribbons stuck to every car and they ask themselves..... If so many people supported me then how come my supplies were cut, how come I am fighting a war with no body armor? How come I have to depend on my family to send me the neccesities of life ie. razors, toothpaste, TOILETPAPER for christ sake?

Seems to me, this is an issue that should have been directed at your Commander-In-Chief.

Hammer Of The GODS
10-30-2008, 10:31 AM
Seems to me, this is an issue that should have been directed at your Commander-In-Chief.


Thanks for proving my point!

The " Commander in Chief " is too busy with issues like gay marriage and reperations to be concerned with the daily struggles of the US soldier! All they want is more of us to fight in conflicts around the world. All the while they try to figure out how they can vote themselves another raise and pad thier retirement portfolio!

And by the way, when the issue DOES make it to the senate douchebags like Obama vote AGAINST bills that are geared towards helping our soldiers!

Don't poke the bear!

Steel Duck
10-30-2008, 10:56 AM
Thanks for proving my point!

The " Commander in Chief " is too busy with issues like gay marriage and reperations to be concerned with the daily struggles of the US soldier! All they want is more of us to fight in conflicts around the world. All the while they try to figure out how they can vote themselves another raise and pad thier retirement portfolio!

And by the way, when the issue DOES make it to the senate douchebags like Obama vote AGAINST bills that are geared towards helping our soldiers!

Don't poke the bear!



Let me point out that the President can veto any bill OR use executive privilege to get a bill passed! NEXT!

Hammer Of The GODS
10-30-2008, 11:04 AM
Let me point out that the President can veto any bill OR use executive privilege to get a bill passed! NEXT!

You apparently are missing the point!

NONE OF THOSE DOUCHEBAGS ON CAPITAL HILL GIVE A RATS ARSE ABOUT THE US SOLDIER!

My post was not just an indictment of your political party. It points the finger at ALL politicians. I can't help that your savoir is at the top of the list. Get over yourself and don't try to make this a partisan issue. If thats what you want go argue with someone who believes one side is more rightous than the other such as yourself.

Steel Duck
10-30-2008, 11:11 AM
You apparently are missing the point!

NONE OF THOSE DOUCHEBAGS ON CAPITAL HILL GIVE A RATS ARSE ABOUT THE US SOLDIER!

My post was not just an indictment of your political party. It points the finger at ALL politicians. I can't help that your savoir is at the top of the list. Get over yourself and don't try to make this a partisan issue. If thats what you want go argue with someone who believes one side is more rightous than the other such as yourself.


You have some nerve accusing me of making it a partisn issue when you yourself did that pointing the finger at Obama and the Clintons. I think you should educate yourself on the fact that Obama voted no AGAINST the budget...NOT funding of our troops! Go here http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490 and do some reading under DEFFENSE BILLS AND MEASURES. They are seperate from BUDGET.

Hammer Of The GODS
10-30-2008, 11:51 AM
You have some nerve accusing me of making it a partisn issue when you yourself did that pointing the finger at Obama and the Clintons. I think you should educate yourself on the fact that Obama voted no AGAINST the budget...NOT funding of our troops! Go here http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490 and do some reading under DEFFENSE BILLS AND MEASURES. They are seperate from BUDGET.

Again you are defending your guy!

George Bush Sr. drooped the ball during the Gulf War! I think he is a putz! There is that better? Your just pissed because I used your party to make a point! I believe I was CLEAR that ALL politicians are douchebags! You are just reading what you want to read.

By the way this is from the site you posted!


Senator Obama voted NO

Project Vote Smart's Synopsis:

Vote to invoke cloture on the motion to take up debate on a bill that provides $70.00 billion in emergency supplemental appropriations for the Department of Defense.

Official Title of Legislation:

S 2340: A bill making emergency supplemental appropriations for the Department of Defense for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2008, and for other purposes.

Highlights:

-$8.65 billion for military personnel.

-$49.20 billion for operation and maintenance.

-$10.45 billion for procurement.

-$575.70 million for the Defense Health Program.


Here is another one from your link.

Senator Obama voted NO

Project Vote Smart's Synopsis:

Vote to concur with the House amendments to the Senate amendment and pass the bill, which makes emergency appropriations to certain departments for various purposes, including the war on terror and Hurricane Katrina efforts, and which raises the minimum wage and adjusts certain business taxes.

Official Title of Legislation:

Making emergency supplemental appropriations and additional supplemental appropriations for agricultural and other emergency assistance for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2007, and for other purposes.

Highlights:

--States that the US strategy in Iraq will be determined by the Iraqi Government’s ability to meet specified benchmarks (Title I(Chapter 3(Sec 1314 (b))))

-Increases the federal minimum wage to $5.85 per hour on the 60th day after the enactment of HR 2206, $6.55 per hour 12 months after that 60th day, and $7.25 per hour 24 months after that 60th day (Title VIII (Subtitle A (Sec 8102 (a (1)))))

-Enacts business tax modifications, including such adjustments as extending the work opportunity tax credit to 2011(Title VIII (Subtitle B (Part 1 (Subpart A (Sec 8211))))), extending and increasing expensing for small business (Title VIII (Subtitle B (Part 1 (Subpart A (Sec 8212))))), waiving alternative minimum tax limits on work opportunity credit and credit for taxes paid on employee tips (Title VIII (Subtitle B (Part 1 (Subpart A (Sec 8214))))), and other adjustments

-$101.11 billion for the Department of Defense, including $99.50 billion for non-civil purposes and $1.61 billion for civil purposes

-$1.79 billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs, including $1.34 billion for medical related expenses

-$989.50 million for the Department of Agriculture

-$356 million for the Department of Justice

-$5.16 billion for the Department of Homeland Security

-$5.60 billion for the Department of State


Now that I've used your own source against you what will you do next? Again, YOU are making this a partisan issue!

Why do people insist on poking the bear?

Dino 6 Rings
10-30-2008, 11:58 AM
Not sure if anyonw has mentioned this, but the Palin hung by a noose display has been taken down.

http://cbs2.com/local/Sarah.Palin.Effigy.2.852046.html

Best part of the article:

"Later a handful of protesters were joined by an SUV with an effigy labeled "Chad," after the display's creator, Chad Morrisette."

Guess he didn't like being the subject of a work of art himself.

Steel Duck
10-30-2008, 12:54 PM
Now that I've used your own source against you what will you do next? Again, YOU are making this a partisan issue!

Why do people insist on poking the bear?



National

Key Vote

Defense Authorizations Bill



Key Votes:
S 3001: Defense Authorizations Bill

Issues: Budget, Spending and Taxes, Defense, Foreign Aid and Policy Issues, Military Issues
Date: 09/17/2008
Sponsor: Sen. Levin, Carl (D-MI)



Record Vote Number 201

Bill Passed
(Senate)
How members voted
(88 - 8)



Senator McCain did not vote
Read statements Senator McCain made in this general time period.



Project Vote Smart's Synopsis:

Vote to pass a bill that authorizes $603.03 billion for activities of the Department of Defense, including $69.48 billion for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.


Official Title of Legislation:

S 3001: An original bill to authorize appropriations for fiscal year 2009 for military activities of the Department of Defense, for military construction, and for defense activities of the Department of Energy, to prescribe military personnel strengths for such fiscal year, and for other purposes.


Highlights:

- Provides a 3.9 percent basic pay increase for members of the armed forces (Sec. 601).

- Prohibits funds in this bill from being used for permanent stationing of armed forces in Iraq, and from exercising United States control over Iraqi oil resources (Sec. 2913).

- Prohibits detainees from being interrogated by contracted personnel (Sec. 1036).

- Requires the Department of Defense to develop a plan to increase the roll of the National Guard and Reserves in national defense (Sec. 1053).

- Authorizes $153.55 billion for operations and maintenance

- Authorizes an additional $19.86 billion for operations in Afghanistan, and an additional $49.63 billion for operations in Iraq
- Authorizes $124.5 billion for military personnel and contributions to the Medicare-Eligible Retiree Health Fund

- Authorizes $103.6 billion for procurement of weapons and supplies

Link to Legislation: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:s3001:


Senate Passage: 09/17/2008 : Bill Passed 88 - 8 (Record Vote Number 201)

House Passage With Amendment: 09/24/2008 : Bill Passed: 392 - 39 (Roll no. 631)
NOTE: THIS IS A SUBSTITUTED BILL, MEANING THE LANGUAGE OF THE ORIGINAL BILL HAS BEEN REPLACED.


Sponsor:
Sen. Levin, Carl (D-MI)

I wonder why McCain did not deem this bill worthy of his vote
This is just ONE of the many deffense bills he did NOT vote on! Yet, it's so important to him.....

Hammer Of The GODS
10-30-2008, 02:09 PM
I wonder why McCain did not deem this bill worthy of his vote
This is just ONE of the many deffense bills he did NOT vote on! Yet, it's so important to him.....


Holy shyte!

Why are you still defending you GD canidate?!

What part of ..." NONE OF THOSE DOUCHEBAGS ON CAPITAL HILL GIVE A RATS ARSE ABOUT THE US SOLDIER!" don't you understand?

Somebody else help me with this woman!

YOUR STILL MAKING THIS A PARTISAN ISSUE!

One more time for the record........... No politician who has ever held an office at any level is REALLY concerned with the welfare of the US soldier!

I am a combat veteran who has seen the effects of war. I know first hand how the government takes care of soldiers BEFORE / DURING / and AFTER war!

Now please quit pushing your GD canidate down my throat trying to defend an "imagined" attack on your precious demacratic party!

They all suck end of discussion. I will not post any more replies to your rhetoric!

revefsreleets
10-30-2008, 03:42 PM
Wow! Talk about a tangent!

Preacher
10-30-2008, 04:26 PM
Preach, How long must a white man who is generations removed from slavery be shackled to the stigma of slavery?

I can absolutely agree that slavery helped build this country. But so has the efforts of EVERY soldier who has ever fought for this country! Yet, politicians who exploit the loyalty and bravery of the US soldier see them as nothing more than a pawn in a game of political chess. Some politicians ( the Clintons and Obama ) have nothing but contempt for the military. Now I ask you, where are the reperations and benefits for the families of those Americans who fought and died in the cival war in order to free the slaves? Todays soldier gets to come home to see yellow ribbons stuck to every car and they ask themselves..... If so many people supported me then how come my supplies were cut, how come I am fighting a war with no body armor? How come I have to depend on my family to send me the neccesities of life ie. razors, toothpaste, TOILETPAPER for christ sake? Sorry, but I have been around the world and what I've seen is more human suffering than you can imagine. I cannot and will not feel sorry for any race who already has so many programs in place to help them achieve the American dream only to piss it away and ask for more!

Slavery has been imposed on more than just the black race since the beginning of civalization. So how far do we go back to make the score even?

I say lets move on and let the American dream come true for those who are willing to work for it!

If you give a man a fish.................

I think you take my post out of context. The context was, "why does the black population keep bringing up slavery." My answer was that the black population feels that they are still at a disadvantage based on the history in America. No more, no less. I am neither justifying, nor condemning it. I am simply saying about the feeling... "it is" and because of that, if we ever want to jump the hurdle of racism in this country, we need to hear the words of slavery with a softer ear. It is the same with a husband and wife. Many times, the arguments stop when the other person simply takes time to really listen. Even if they disagree. Comparing them to the neighbor down the street doesn't help either.

and BTW, you volunteered for your service, and fought for your own freedom as well as mine. In WWI, WWII, etc, The draft picked up everyone. That is a far cry from going to a foriegn land and buying a bunch of people who look different than us, bringing them here and treating them like property, then freeing them from slavery but telling them that they still aren't equal to us.. until the late 1960's. You do realize that up until about 10 or 20 years ago, there where people alive that had relatives who were slaves. The horror of slavery was only second hand, passed from the slaves themselves to the newest generation. That is why the story is so fresh in many people's memories still.

Personally, I think we have re-instituted slavery in this country via the welfare system and the disallowing of vouchers for school choice. I have no problems calling Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and others as such Modern Day Slave Sellers

Selling their own brothers and sisters into slavery much like the African princes and leaders of the 17th century, who sold those they captured in war from neighboring tribes and regions (http://www.afbis.com/analysis/slave.htm).

They sell the modern day slaves to the democratic party... who uses them to press votes and social stigmas which keep both the slave sellers and slave buyers in power.

The VERY REASON there is so much hatred towards black republicans, is because the black republican can upset the entire applecart.

as such... these types of cartoons are absolutely acceptable by the liberal black powerbrokers...

http://www.trustedpartner.com/images/library/000143/CRiceJpg.jpg


Calling a black man a house n$$er is ok too... as long as it is a Republican.

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2002/10/27103.shtml


Yet... many in the democrat party, instead of facing up to the racism that keeps them in power, instead believe that all the racists that used to be in their party, switched to the GOP, which is blatantly false. http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pages.DYK-Democrats%20refuse%20to%20apologize&tp_preview=true


In the end, my belief is that slavery is still a major metanarrative in the black community. One that we need to address by freeing them, not from their physical chains, but from the economic and social slavery enforced upon them by the slave sellers and traders of the democratic party which want to keep the black man down... so that they will give their votes to the only party that wants to "help them." Much like a drug dealer "helps" a drug addict through withdrawals.

For more on this topic, pick up and read

"Its Okay To Leave the Plantation" by Mason Weaver (http://www.amazon.com/Its-OK-Leave-Plantation-Underground/dp/0965521818)

It might also be educational to visit the "Black Republican" website: http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pages.DYK&tp_preview=true&x=9385610

Preacher
10-30-2008, 04:35 PM
Not sure if anyonw has mentioned this, but the Palin hung by a noose display has been taken down.

http://cbs2.com/local/Sarah.Palin.Effigy.2.852046.html

Best part of the article:

"Later a handful of protesters were joined by an SUV with an effigy labeled "Chad," after the display's creator, Chad Morrisette."

Guess he didn't like being the subject of a work of art himself.


And there you have "Freedom of Speech" At its FINEST!

Subject the person to the same results of freedom of speech as they are subjecting someone else.

Hammer Of The GODS
10-30-2008, 05:35 PM
I think you take my post out of context. The context was, "why does the black population keep bringing up slavery." My answer was that the black population feels that they are still at a disadvantage based on the history in America. No more, no less. I am neither justifying, nor condemning it. I am simply saying about the feeling... "it is" and because of that, if we ever want to jump the hurdle of racism in this country, we need to hear the words of slavery with a softer ear. It is the same with a husband and wife. Many times, the arguments stop when the other person simply takes time to really listen. Even if they disagree. Comparing them to the neighbor down the street doesn't help either.
OK then. Well my response to that is that while you say you niether condone or condemn it you are saying that by listening to the slavery cry with a soft ear we can overcome the stigma. Well in my book the US governments ear is pretty soft already. In that I mean there are sooo many programs created to get african Americans a leg up. Yet these programs are often used and wasted and all the advantages are useless because the governments teet is so much easier than actually putting forth an effort. So how many more programs will it take? My point is that we should move on past these programs and treat everyone equally!

and BTW, you volunteered for your service, and fought for your own freedom as well as mine. In WWI, WWII, etc, The draft picked up everyone. That is a far cry from going to a foriegn land and buying a bunch of people who look different than us, bringing them here and treating them like property, then freeing them from slavery but telling them that they still aren't equal to us.. until the late 1960's. You do realize that up until about 10 or 20 years ago, there where people alive that had relatives who were slaves. The horror of slavery was only second hand, passed from the slaves themselves to the newest generation. That is why the story is so fresh in many people's memories still.
First of all the comparison of soldier vs. slave is technically apples and oranges, but the Vets returning from Viet Nam were drafted sent over there to that hell and then spit on and treated like shit when they returned by a large group of so called Americans. Those very Vets are still in thier own private hell. I urge you to visit your local Veterans clinic and ask an old Vet how well they've been treated by the government. I assure you that the programs in place for black people (slave relatives or not ) far and away outnumber the programs available to disabled vets. Point is that these soldiers are the ones being treated unfairly, unlike the "descendants" of slaves they actually dealt with the mistreatment! And as for second hand stories of slavery.... Well no one in my family tree owned slaves. On the contrary, my great grandmother and grandfather were 100% Native American. That being said, I have NEVER expected my government to "pay me" some sort of reperation because of the way my anscesters were slaughtered, raped and displaced by " Manifest Destiny" ! So why as a white male should I be responsible for the sins of an archaic white society that I did not contribute to?

And no I see NO money from the casinos! Nor would I expect to. In my mind whats done is done and we should ALL move on to a healthier society of colorless people.

Personally, I think we have re-instituted slavery in this country via the welfare system and the disallowing of vouchers for school choice. I have no problems calling Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and others as such Modern Day Slave Sellers

Selling their own brothers and sisters into slavery much like the African princes and leaders of the 17th century, who sold those they captured in war from neighboring tribes and regions (http://www.afbis.com/analysis/slave.htm).

They sell the modern day slaves to the democratic party... who uses them to press votes and social stigmas which keep both the slave sellers and slave buyers in power.

The VERY REASON there is so much hatred towards black republicans, is because the black republican can upset the entire applecart.

as such... these types of cartoons are absolutely acceptable by the liberal black powerbrokers...

http://www.trustedpartner.com/images/library/000143/CRiceJpg.jpg


Calling a black man a house n$$er is ok too... as long as it is a Republican.

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2002/10/27103.shtml


Yet... many in the democrat party, instead of facing up to the racism that keeps them in power, instead believe that all the racists that used to be in their party, switched to the GOP, which is blatantly false. http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pages.DYK-Democrats%20refuse%20to%20apologize&tp_preview=true
Those statements are a good analysis of the situation!


In the end, my belief is that slavery is still a major metanarrative in the black community. One that we need to address by freeing them, not from their physical chains, but from the economic and social slavery enforced upon them by the slave sellers and traders of the democratic party which want to keep the black man down... so that they will give their votes to the only party that wants to "help them." Much like a drug dealer "helps" a drug addict through withdrawals.
Again very well said!

For more on this topic, pick up and read

"Its Okay To Leave the Plantation" by Mason Weaver (http://www.amazon.com/Its-OK-Leave-Plantation-Underground/dp/0965521818)

It might also be educational to visit the "Black Republican" website: http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pages.DYK&tp_preview=true&x=9385610

I meant no disrespect in my original post nor in this one. I think we both want the same thing but we see the answer in a different light.

Preacher
10-30-2008, 05:53 PM
I meant no disrespect in my original post nor in this one. I think we both want the same thing but we see the answer in a different light.

I don't take any of it as disrespect. Actually, we are probably about 95% in agreement.

What I am speaking of, is not govt. handouts, rather it is the average white person and average black person being able to communicate. It is the average white person being able to say... yeah, slavery was absolutely horrible, as was sharecropping and separate but equal. I too am sorry that our government and people didn't recognize that evil.

However, when people here, "Shutup, get off your butt and work." (not saying your saying that... just using it as an illustration), what people hear is something different. If you're married, you know EXACTLY what I mean!!

Hey honey, could you not forget to pick up the food for the game tomorrow may just be a propositional statement for you... but to your wife (figuratively)... WOW... you may have just told her she is an ignorant backward little lady that needs to be reminded of every little thing by her big, powerful, do-no-wrong husband! THAT is why the phone goes whizzing by your head and the door gets slammed on the way out! :chuckle: (and yes, the same is true both ways. Men do the same thing to women!)

My point here, is that as individuals, if we did a bit more to just engage and hear each other's stories with a bit of compassion, we cut out the legs from racism. That goes quite far in then empowering everyone to actually "leave the plantation" and pursue the American dream.


BTW, my father was was a vietnam vet. However, he was a lifer and as such, when he contracted leukemia and died from the Agent Orange, the family was very well taken care of by the govt.

Oh yeah, and when I married my wife, I would not allow her to bring in her "Jane Fonda Workout" stuff. I literally took a black marker, and blacked out her name before it came into my house! I think we are on the same page there! :chuckle: :wink02:

Steel Duck
10-30-2008, 05:57 PM
My point here, is that as individuals, if we did a bit more to just engage and hear each other's stories with a bit of compassion, we cut out the legs from racism. That goes quite far in then empowering everyone to actually "leave the plantation" and pursue the American dream.

So much power in these words! Kudos!:applaudit:

Blitzburgh_Fever
10-30-2008, 09:45 PM
Good posts about the current state of racism and perceived prejudice. I live in Southern Indiana, which can be a downright racist place in many areas. My 12 year old nephew recently asked if a friend could stay the night at my house. When his friend arrived, and was black, I'm ashamed to say I was (pleasantly) surprised he never made a mention of race.

Like it or not, differences in race are prevalent in nearly every adult's mind, if it's racism, reverse racism, or withholding a/an [insert race here] joke (I'm Catholic, no one thinks twice about priest jokes). To my nephew it never occured to him. And that's pretty awesome.

Anyways, back on topic:


2 arrested for hanging Obama effigy on Ky. campus
By ROGER ALFORD – 2 hours ago

LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) — A University of Kentucky student and another man were arrested Thursday, accused of hanging a life-sized likeness of Barack Obama from a tree on the campus.

The incident was one of several in recent weeks involving effigies of the presidential candidates or their running mates. No charges have been filed in four other cases that have made national headlines.

UK Interim Police Chief Joe Monroe said the men "expressed remorse for a stunt that had gotten out of hand."

Arrested were Joe Fischer, 22, a UK student, and Hunter Bush, 21, both of Lexington. Both were being held at Fayette County Detention Center on charges of disorderly conduct related to the hanging of the effigy. They were also charged with burglary and theft at a fraternity house where police said the materials came from.

Lt. Tina Strange, a deputy jailer at the detention center, did not know who the men's attorneys were. She said they were each being held on $7,600 bond.

Monroe said the two men told detectives they decided to hang the effigy after seeing media reports about a Sarah Palin effigy in California.

Witnesses who saw the effigy Wednesday said it was life-sized with an Obama Halloween mask, a suit jacket and sweat pants. It was found hanging from a tree with a noose around its neck.

UK President Lee Todd said the effigy violates the university's code of ethics, and Fischer faces punishment that could include expulsion.

"As outrageous and offensive an act as the effigy was, I truly believe it has mobilized our campus, the community and the state in an effort to battle racism," Todd said Thursday.

It was the second time in about a month such an effigy was found on a college campus. George Fox University, a small Christian college in Oregon, recently punished four students who confessed to hanging a likeness of Obama from a tree.

Meanwhile, a Redondo Beach, Calif., woman removed a Halloween effigy of Barack Obama that was hanging from her balcony with a butcher knife in its neck. She took it down Thursday after neighbors complained.

In West Hollywood, Calif., a man removed an effigy of GOP vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin from his yard Wednesday after several weeks of complaints.

And in Clarksville, Ind., a man had hanged an inflatable doll made to look like Obama from a tree. He took it down Wednesday, and authorities said it didn't appear to violate any state laws.

Associated Press Writer Joe Biesk in Frankfort contributed to this report.


THOSE DAMN REPUBLICANS / DEMOCRATS!!!

Why can't they just be idiots? If a person wearing a Panthers jersey hung an effegy of a U.S. soldier or marine, would all Panthers fans be anti-military? No, it'd be one douchebag who doesn't deserve the freedoms he has. Same story here.




Also, Clarksville, IN is about 9 miles from where I live, and I drive through it every day on my way to campus. Sad to say it's the norm.