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View Full Version : Cut Davenport, Sign Foster


dunkuntou
10-29-2008, 01:53 PM
Is anyone else absolutely sick of watching Najeh Davenport and his 15 yard kick returns? He just looks so slow and useless.

Even if Willie Parker isn't healthy Davenport is the 4th option behind Moore, Russell and Carey Davis. We don't need him and I don't care to see him on a Steeler uniform anymore.

Jayson Foster is on our Practice Squad. He is on the small side but he is lighting quick and has been timed in the 4.2's in the 40. He played quarterback and wide receiver at Georgia Southern but also returned punts and kickoffs. He won the 2007 Walter Payton Award (best offensive player in the sub division)

The Steelers are pathetic in returning kicks. They average 20.0 yards per kick return, 4.8 yards per punt return. The longest return on kickoffs is 27 yards and 13 yards in the punting game. THIS IS HORRID!! Weare 30th in the league in Kick Return and tied for 31st in Punt Returns (WHICH IS LAST)

I want to see Foster and see what he can do. Look him up on YouTube and you will be impressed.

fansince'76
10-29-2008, 01:57 PM
The Steelers are pathetic in returning kicks. They average 20.0 yards per kick return, 4.8 yards per punt return. The longest return on kickoffs is 27 yards and 13 yards in the punting game. THIS IS HORRID!!

IMO, that has more to do with Ligashesky's unwillingness/inability to teach proper wedge forming techniques on returns. Watch closely - every time one of our returners catches a kickoff/punt, they are IMMEDIATELY surrounded by 4, 5, or 6 guys wearing different colored jerseys with absolutely no room to run, regardless of who it is - it's almost as if our return units don't even bother to block at all a lot of the time. However, I wouldn't be sad to see Davenport go either, and he can take Ligashesky with him.

steelreserve
10-29-2008, 02:11 PM
I agree -- Dookie is pretty much useless to us. We don't need a running back who's no good at running or a return man who's no good at returning. About all he's good for are poop jokes, and that's not worth a roster spot.

tony hipchest
10-29-2008, 02:34 PM
I agree -- Dookie is pretty much useless to us. We don't need a running back who's no good at running or a return man who's no good at returning. About all he's good for are poop jokes, and that's not worth a roster spot.so are you saying to CAN him?

:toofunny:

(ok, maybe it wasnt that funny)

our special teams are getting better. i just like how he doesnt fumble and seems to get beyond the 20 yd line. we will never score a ST td with him, but we may not hand over a td either.

anyone notice how good bobby april and the guy who followed wiz to arizona are doing now that they dont have cowher cowering over them. april is considered one of the bests with the bills and cardinals is vastly improved. hell s. morey even blocked a kick? who was the last steeler to block a kick? rod woodson?

i think we'll get even better next year w/o much change.

fansince'76
10-29-2008, 02:35 PM
so are you saying to CAN him?

:toofunny:

(ok, maybe it wasnt that funny)

DUMP him. :poop: :chuckle:

MACH1
10-29-2008, 02:36 PM
Dookie is about as worthless as teits on a fish returning kicks. Honestly, can he break one and run it all the way back and not get caught from behind? :poop:

tony hipchest
10-29-2008, 02:39 PM
he needs a good back side blocker. :chuckle:

MACH1
10-29-2008, 02:43 PM
he needs a good back side blocker. :chuckle:

It Depends. :smile:

tony hipchest
10-29-2008, 02:46 PM
It Depends. :smile:

hes got the runs worthy of spot duty. like i said, ive never seen him drop one.

srk173
10-29-2008, 04:01 PM
He will be gone as soon as FWP is back. No need for him with willie, carey, moore, and russel. I bet John Kuhn could average 25 per KO.

dunkuntou
10-29-2008, 04:29 PM
IMO, that has more to do with Ligashesky's unwillingness/inability to teach proper wedge forming techniques on returns. Watch closely - every time one of our returners catches a kickoff/punt, they are IMMEDIATELY surrounded by 4, 5, or 6 guys wearing different colored jerseys with absolutely no room to run, regardless of who it is - it's almost as if our return units don't even bother to block at all a lot of the time. However, I wouldn't be sad to see Davenport go either, and he can take Ligashesky with him.

Thats not really it. Guys know how to block and set up a seam but when your return man runs straight into the back of a blacker and stops running, you can't blame anyone but the returner.

The reason guys are generally surrounding instantly is because of lack of an instant burst of speed thats needs.

I guarantee if we had a legit returner we wouldn't be complaining at all

Preacher
10-29-2008, 04:46 PM
Thats not really it. Guys know how to block and set up a seam but when your return man runs straight into the back of a blacker and stops running, you can't blame anyone but the returner.

The reason guys are generally surrounding instantly is because of lack of an instant burst of speed thats needs.

I guarantee if we had a legit returner we wouldn't be complaining at all

The problem is, Dookie is also our number 3 guy. We have to keep him around for running the ball in case some others get hurt...

Then again, when would two RB's ever get hurt in the same season?

slippy
10-29-2008, 04:52 PM
the ST coach does get props for improving the coverage this year.

only two gaffes i can remember: one return in the giants game, and an almost muff in windy cleveland.

o-line coach and dookie need to be gone next year. i was sorry to see davenport return to us, he just didn't work out. the first time.

steelers are 2 and 2 in the re-tread running back dept.
bettis-all time great
moore-great so far
staley-great six games
dookie-one great game (seattle)

Preacher
10-29-2008, 04:58 PM
the ST coach does get props for improving the coverage this year.

only two gaffes i can remember: one return in the giants game, and an almost muff in windy cleveland.

o-line coach and dookie need to be gone next year. i was sorry to see davenport return to us, he just didn't work out. the first time.

steelers are 2 and 2 in the re-tread running back dept.
bettis-all time great
moore-great so far
staley-great six games
dookie-one great game (seattle)

We have to be honest about Staley however. It was a cheap shot by the cheatriots that hurt him. Then Willie stepped it up the next year and took his place.

slippy
10-29-2008, 05:18 PM
good point preacher, but staley still never took the field again.

Hapa
10-29-2008, 06:43 PM
It's not really about the returner, it's about the blocking. Devin Hester is good, but the Bear's special teams is amazing.

steelreserve
10-29-2008, 06:48 PM
The problem is, Dookie is also our number 3 guy.

Funny, I always thought of Dookie as more of our Number 2 guy. :poop:

Bam!!

bigben7MVP
10-29-2008, 08:07 PM
I would cut Davenport he is horrible at returning kicks. If Foster has 4.2 speed it would greatly inprove are ST because all he needs to do is break a tackle and no one would catch him.

fansince'76
10-29-2008, 08:49 PM
Thats not really it. Guys know how to block and set up a seam but when your return man runs straight into the back of a blacker and stops running, you can't blame anyone but the returner.

The reason guys are generally surrounding instantly is because of lack of an instant burst of speed thats needs.

I guarantee if we had a legit returner we wouldn't be complaining at all

I dunno, Santo's pretty fast and it wasn't really any better with him back there either. Just seems to me there is never a delay between when the returner catches the ball and when he is swarmed over, which is when you'd be expecting guys to be blocked. There is still not much lane discipline and good wedge forming that I've seen. However, Dookie does suck as a returner.

SunshineMan21
10-29-2008, 08:50 PM
It's not really about the returner, it's about the blocking. Devin Hester is good, but the Bear's special teams is amazing.

I agree that the value of blocking is underrated . . . but the returner still matters.

I don't think this is a huge issue because at least our returners don't fumble, but there's definitely room for improvement. I think it's good to be open to non-Davenport options.:tt03:

CanadianSteel
10-29-2008, 09:45 PM
Dookie is the only guy in the leauge that returns a kick off like its a full back dive over left guard.
Been saying all year get someone with some speed, pick a hole and just go fast as you can.... If dookie is making it to the 25 yrd line on average someone with some speed surley could do better. We have the absolute slowest return guy ever.... the oppossing teams must watch film and say what the F*** knowing they don't have to woory one bit about speed and him breaking one...

fansince'76
10-29-2008, 09:47 PM
Dookie is the only guy in the leauge that returns a kick off like its a full back dive over left guard.
Been saying all year get someone with some speed, pick a hole and just go fast as you can.... If dookie is making it to the 25 yrd line on average someone with some speed surley could do better. We have the absolute slowest return guy ever.... the oppossing teams must watch film and say what the F*** knowing they don't have to woory one bit about speed and him breaking one...

I agree Dookie blows as a returner, but there was no appreciable difference in our effectiveness on returns with Santo back there either. We need a new STs coach just as much as a legit returner.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-29-2008, 11:42 PM
Davenport is fine as a KR. Something to be said about a guy that hangs onto the ball and gets it to the 30 and beyond. Not many tacklers want to step in front of a 250lb guy on the run, but put a 180lb guy there and they salivate at the chance of hitting him.

We do need a punt returner.

Either way, Davenport wont be here next season, but isnt hurting us on kickoffs.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-29-2008, 11:49 PM
. We have the absolute slowest return guy ever.......

Davenport is not slow. He is a long strider, that runs too upright. He was a highschool sprinter and was on the Miami (Fl) track team also.

also won four letters (1998-2001) as a sprinter on the Miami track team, competing in the 100-meter dash and 4x100 relay…was a member of the Hurricanes’ 4x100 relay team that was the 1999 Big East champion
http://news.steelers.com/Team/Player%7C206

There is a difference between being fast and quick.

Steelman16
10-30-2008, 01:34 AM
Davenport is not slow. He is a long strider, that runs too upright. He was a highschool sprinter and was on the Miami (Fl) track team also.

also won four letters (1998-2001) as a sprinter on the Miami track team, competing in the 100-meter dash and 4x100 relay…was a member of the Hurricanes’ 4x100 relay team that was the 1999 Big East champion
http://news.steelers.com/Team/Player%7C206

There is a difference between being fast and quick.

Sure popped that load in the closet pretty quick. Maybe his talents don't lie in the NFL. :chuckle:


I don't mind Dookie returning kicks, but we really need a good punt returner.

And 76 is right. When's the last time anyone here's seen a halfway decent wedge?

Galax Steeler
10-30-2008, 04:47 AM
Dookie hasn't showed me much this year either I would love to have a good return man that could get up field and have the chance to break one for a touchdown.

jdsdaguy
10-30-2008, 05:37 AM
i agree about the blocking. no matter whose back there, they're always surrounded by the time they get the ball. that isn't his fault, but it wouldn't hurt for him to actually show his size and strength. a back his size should be able to break a tackle or two or even carry a couple of guys 5 or 6 more yards. i think he's too soft to play for the steelers. if he's cut though, i think it should be because of his poor production on offence and not his lack of return production.

SteelMember
10-30-2008, 09:23 AM
i agree about the blocking. no matter whose back there, they're always surrounded by the time they get the ball. that isn't his fault, but it wouldn't hurt for him to actually show his size and strength. a back his size should be able to break a tackle or two or even carry a couple of guys 5 or 6 more yards. i think he's too soft to play for the steelers. if he's cut though, i think it should be because of his poor production on offence and not his lack of return production.

Dookie seems to play the return the same way he rushes from scrimmage. He's a big guy with speed (not quickness, right gonzo), but as soon as he gets to the point of attack he slows down and shuffles his feet losing any momentum he might have had. Run fast and stop is not a move. Run fast and cut, or run fast some more. He dosen't hit the hole with any power or intent.

The blocking needs to improve, but as long as they're not turning it over starting at the 20-30...That's fine by me. Although, watching a long return is truely exciting. I wouldn't mind seeing to the Steelers pull one off once in awhile. A blocked punt too for that matter.

Steeldude
10-30-2008, 09:43 AM
IMO, that has more to do with Ligashesky's unwillingness/inability to teach proper wedge forming techniques on returns. Watch closely - every time one of our returners catches a kickoff/punt, they are IMMEDIATELY surrounded by 4, 5, or 6 guys wearing different colored jerseys with absolutely no room to run, regardless of who it is - it's almost as if our return units don't even bother to block at all a lot of the time. However, I wouldn't be sad to see Davenport go either, and he can take Ligashesky with him.


bingo! :thumbsup:

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-30-2008, 09:58 AM
Steelmember is right about Dookie not making a cut at top speed, but I think its just tough for a 250lb guy to do that. Like I said, he isnt hurting us, but probably wont be around next season.

As for Ligashesky, I think he keeps his job because of coverage teams, but a couple times I saw return team guys like Anthony Smith just whiffing at blocks. I dont know the inability to teach a wedge is the be all and end all. There are also strategies of creating lanes. I just think Ligs may have lost some of the players on his team.

steelpride12
10-30-2008, 11:04 AM
Dookie was a bum on the returns and i as well and tired of the bad returns, hopefully Foster can give us the speed and agility on the returns we need.

SteelMember
10-30-2008, 11:11 AM
Steelmember is right about Dookie not making a cut at top speed, but I think its just tough for a 250lb guy to do that. Like I said, he isnt hurting us, but probably wont be around next season.

I agree on that. A 250 lb. man that is fleet of foot isn't the norm, but still a guy that big seems uninterested in taking anyone on head to head. Not his mo. So I guess I'm saying he isn't what one would expect for his size... and a guy from miami. :bringit: A little soft. I guess that's why he was still available :noidea:

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-30-2008, 01:19 PM
I agree on that. A 250 lb. man that is fleet of foot isn't the norm, but still a guy that big seems uninterested in taking anyone on head to head. Not his mo. So I guess I'm saying he isn't what one would expect for his size... and a guy from miami. :bringit: A little soft. I guess that's why he was still available :noidea:

My beef with Davenport has always been that he doesnt finish runs by putting his head down and driving forward. I think the fact that he has a background as a track sprinter makes him think he can run like a 210 lb halfback and bounce runs outside.

He is faster and lighter on his feet than the average 250 lb running back, but doesnt run with the power he should for his size. But again, to address the topic of this thread......I dont think I would cut him for an UDFA rookie that might fall over in a strong wind and I doubt the Steelers will either.

jjpro11
10-30-2008, 01:22 PM
i didnt even realize foster was on the practice squad with that speed. i say give him a shot.. some of the most dangerous kickoff returners in the league are small built running backs like MJD and darren sproles. trindon holiday in college. if our offense is going to stay in this funk, we might as well try improving field position and socring tds on special teams.

Preacher
10-30-2008, 04:35 PM
i didnt even realize foster was on the practice squad with that speed. i say give him a shot.. some of the most dangerous kickoff returners in the league are small built running backs like MJD and darren sproles. trindon holiday in college. if our offense is going to stay in this funk, we might as well try improving field position and socring tds on special teams.


I understand everyone saying this...

but are they comfortable with Davis and Russell as our running backs if MeMo gets hurt?

Steelthe#1dynasty
10-31-2008, 01:49 AM
"Is anyone else absolutely sick of watching Najeh Davenport and his 15 yard kick returns? He just looks so slow and useless."

Agreed. I'm so sick of seeing this guy on the filed. Enough already! Glad we were able to sign M. Moore in the off season. Davenport kickoffs/carries are so bloody painful to watch.

dunkuntou
10-31-2008, 10:29 AM
I agree Dookie blows as a returner, but there was no appreciable difference in our effectiveness on returns with Santo back there either. We need a new STs coach just as much as a legit returner.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Davenport is a kick returner and Holmes is returning punts...totally different

dunkuntou
10-31-2008, 10:29 AM
I understand everyone saying this...

but are they comfortable with Davis and Russell as our running backs if MeMo gets hurt?

Just as comfortable as I would be if Dookie was back there running the ball

fansince'76
10-31-2008, 10:45 AM
You are comparing apples and oranges. Davenport is a kick returner and Holmes is returning punts...totally different

We're ranked 30th in KR and dead last in the NFL in punt returns. To me, that points more to a problem in blocking.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-31-2008, 11:16 AM
We're ranked 30th in KR and dead last in the NFL in punt returns. To me, that points more to a problem in blocking.

I think you are right. I noticed a tackle last week that looked like a promising return, but Anthony Smith just wiffed on his guy and let him slide inside for the tackle.

Gonna look at it more closely this week, but I dont think its scheme as much as the guys on the return team just dont look interested or take pride in making the block.

max10
11-03-2008, 12:14 PM
I read another guys post on here about activating a player by the name of Jayson Foster for KR and PR and after watching a youtube video of him I have to agree they need to give this guy a shot on special teams. The youtube video was called Jayson Foster 4 Payton i think. He is on the steelers practice squad. They could use him on special teams and maybe create a steeler version of a wildcat formation to use once or twice in a game kind of like the way they used Kordell Stewart.
I read that Foster was on the Dolphin squad but they cut him, but they got rid of Wes Welker as well. Hey they could even use Dennis Dixon for a couple wildcat plays, more waisted talent sitting on the sideline. :thumbsup:

dunkuntou
11-03-2008, 12:55 PM
I think you are right. I noticed a tackle last week that looked like a promising return, but Anthony Smith just wiffed on his guy and let him slide inside for the tackle.

Gonna look at it more closely this week, but I dont think its scheme as much as the guys on the return team just dont look interested or take pride in making the block.

The blocking has been fine its the actual return guys who can't read blocks and react. Watch very closley tonight and you will see

max10
11-03-2008, 03:15 PM
i didnt even realize foster was on the practice squad with that speed. i say give him a shot.. some of the most dangerous kickoff returners in the league are small built running backs like MJD and darren sproles. trindon holiday in college. if our offense is going to stay in this funk, we might as well try improving field position and socring tds on special teams.


I totally agree, Foster has to much talent to not to give him a shot, besides I hate Holmes as a punt returner, am I the only one that remembers all of those fumbles when he returned punts in the past?, heck everytime he got the ball and started up the field I would close my eyes and repeat to myself hold onto the ball, hold onto the ball....lol
Holmes is our best receiver anyway why risk injury to him? I would rather see Mewelde Moore or Foster returning punts and Kick returns.:helmet:

The Duke
11-03-2008, 03:29 PM
Now that willie is back moore should be on both kickoff and punt returns

No need to activate a PS player unless there is an ijnjury

But it is a fact that blocking has to improve. so many returners and none has success? that's a blocking problem imo

I like what the redskins do though, have Randle El at punt returns and occasionally bring out Moss, and he can take it to the house like last week

CanadianSteel
11-03-2008, 04:39 PM
Dookie seems to play the return the same way he rushes from scrimmage. He's a big guy with speed (not quickness, right gonzo), but as soon as he gets to the point of attack he slows down and shuffles his feet losing any momentum he might have had. Run fast and stop is not a move. Run fast and cut, or run fast some more. He dosen't hit the hole with any power or intent.

The blocking needs to improve, but as long as they're not turning it over starting at the 20-30...That's fine by me. Although, watching a long return is truely exciting. I wouldn't mind seeing to the Steelers pull one off once in awhile. A blocked punt too for that matter.

Agree that the blocking needs to improve as well, but we need someone who's speed is feared back there returning kicks.

And AEgonzo to "each there own" on opinions for sure... Dookie may have been in track and filed but his kick off return speed is just plain slow.... No way we should have to settle for a "safe" return to the 25 yard line and call that successful. Sure the blocking is likley a big part of it but with the current blocking a speed guy could sureley get as far as dookie and maybe break the off one to the 50....