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Steeldude
10-31-2008, 12:15 PM
arians on allowing five sacks and several more hits on quarterback BR on sunday: “They’re going to bring more than you can block, so you turn the farthest guy loose on the quarterback and that was (Mathias Kiwanuka). We don’t have enough guys to block that.”

yes, let's turn the DE loose on BR not once, not twice, but 3 times unblocked.

"(When) they were passing there were a couple times when I went through unblocked," Kiwanuka told the Giants' official website. "I am in a stance five yards away from the quarterback and they decided to leave me untouched."

LVSteelersfan
10-31-2008, 01:52 PM
Arians is a freakin idiot. How many times are they going to run that play on third down with no blockers in the backfield? It is STUPID, STUPID, STUPID.

stlrtruck
10-31-2008, 02:02 PM
When will Arians learn to go to max protect like the patriost* do when Brady was getting man handled?
I mean keep the TE in to block and if the guy doesn't rush slip out into the flats. Or get just enough of a block on him then release...something to slow him down.

NJarhead
10-31-2008, 02:16 PM
There were a few times when we had Eli dead-to-rights but Derrick Ward just cut his route short and Eli hit him. Only a gain of a yard or two, but no sack or loss of 5-7. Now, why can't we do that???? :banging:

fansince'76
10-31-2008, 02:40 PM
When will Arians learn to go to max protect like the patriost* do when Brady was getting man handled?

Of course, being able to hold with impunity and going through entire games without getting ONE FLAG makes it easier.

Got Goodell? The Steelers don't.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-31-2008, 02:59 PM
arians on allowing five sacks and several more hits on quarterback BR on sunday:

yes, let's turn the DE loose on BR not once, not twice, but 3 times unblocked.

"(When) they were passing there were a couple times when I went through unblocked," Kiwanuka told the Giants' official website. "I am in a stance five yards away from the quarterback and they decided to leave me untouched."

Arians is correct. That is how you do it, but the QB and WR have to be ready for a quick pass.

The one real bad sack was when Kiwi came free because Starks double teamed the guy over Kemoateu.....that was sad. :banging:

jdsdaguy
10-31-2008, 04:18 PM
at least we know how the skins are going to defence us!!!:banging:

steelers2685
10-31-2008, 05:25 PM
Former Redskin LaVar Arrington will even be able to sack Ben with the way Arians' offensive tactics are...... while sitting at home in a La-Z-Boy watching it! :noidea:

jjpro11
10-31-2008, 06:36 PM
There were a few times when we had Eli dead-to-rights but Derrick Ward just cut his route short and Eli hit him. Only a gain of a yard or two, but no sack or loss of 5-7. Now, why can't we do that???? :banging:

incase you havent taken notice over the past decade, steelers' running backs and tight ends are out there to take up space on passing plays, they are not there to catch.

bigmaq
11-01-2008, 02:08 PM
When this happens, the solution is a pass into the space vacated by Kiwanuka. The book on blitzing provides two choices: away from the blitzer or at him (the preferred choice). This is a read that has to be made by the player designated in advance to go into the vacated space (WR, TE or RB) and for Ben to read same. It's a short dump over Kiwanuka in space for 5+. That's how the blitzer is kept home and honest. This is relatively easy as everyone in the stadium can see the unblocked DE. The right scheme makes the blitzing team pay for such blitzes. If the player is unblocked, in theory, there is a free offensive player to release into the vacated zone. This is 'Pop Warner Lesson 101". Some teams actually encourage to the D to do this and entice them to send an unblocked guy rushing in with the play designed to dump it off into his space. Many screens are set up this way. If you go back and look at the footage of the game, you will see that on two of his sacks this approach could have paid off with a gain and not a sack.

steelerstrade
11-01-2008, 02:25 PM
rough year for Arians' as far as having to come up for excuses as to why management didnt make any productive moves on the O-line.

steelreserve
11-01-2008, 04:21 PM
There were a few times when we had Eli dead-to-rights but Derrick Ward just cut his route short and Eli hit him. Only a gain of a yard or two, but no sack or loss of 5-7. Now, why can't we do that???? :banging:

Because instead of dumping off a quick short pass, Ben would rather try to break a tackle and chuck the ball 50 yards down the field. It's great when it works, but this year it hasn't worked so much.

Edman
11-01-2008, 05:48 PM
Many more teams this year are exploiting Ben's weakess (inability to read blitzes and holding on to the ball) by sending blitzes.

That's no excuse for not adjusting to it though. It seems our offense is allergic to the three-step drop and the no-huddle. We know Ben picked apart the Jaguars and the Texans with near perfect precision.

The offense in the Jags game was the best offensive performance this season post-Houston. The execution and play-calling was terrific. Why don't we try that more often?

MasterOfPuppets
11-01-2008, 06:45 PM
FIRE ANDERSON !!! ............:toofunny:

Havik
11-01-2008, 11:58 PM
Arians and Zierlien need to go find another place to work that isn't the Steelers. They can take Willie Colon and Steely McBeam with them, too.

Rhee Rhee
11-02-2008, 03:42 AM
Arians is correct. That is how you do it, but the QB and WR have to be ready for a quick pass.


exactly... throughout the giants game and if i recall correctly the eagles game... big ben and his recievers were just not on the same page... when recievers read blitz they gotta turn their heads and look for the ball... half the time the recievers couldn't recognize the blitz and thus BR just tossed it assuming the recievers would go get it...

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-02-2008, 05:27 PM
The offense in the Jags game was the best offensive performance this season post-Houston. The execution and play-calling was terrific. Why don't we try that more often?

Neither the Jags, nor the Texans got much of a pass rush on Ben. Most teams know its pretty obvious that if you can pressure Ben, he isnt as productive. If you rush 4 and he gets time.......he is gonna have a big day.

Look for the Redskins to put 8 in the box, rush 5 or 6 and play man with Rogers and Smoot. Landry can cover a lot of ground out there too at safety.

Steelers need a dangerous slot guy to spread the field a bit and work the inside like Randle El used to. Would love to see Ward, Washington, Holmes on the field and spread it out a bit.

steelpride12
11-02-2008, 05:34 PM
The games where Ben has been sacked is from good defenses and as well Ben did not have good games at that point. It's all a combination of holding onto the ball too long and the line not protecting well.

Lets hope this week in practice the Steelers worked on quick plays or the Skins will have a big night having one of the top D's in the league right now.

Preacher
11-02-2008, 07:07 PM
Neither the Jags, nor the Texans got much of a pass rush on Ben. Most teams know its pretty obvious that if you can pressure Ben, he isnt as productive. If you rush 4 and he gets time.......he is gonna have a big day.

Look for the Redskins to put 8 in the box, rush 5 or 6 and play man with Rogers and Smoot. Landry can cover a lot of ground out there too at safety.

Steelers need a dangerous slot guy to spread the field a bit and work the inside like Randle El used to. Would love to see Ward, Washington, Holmes on the field and spread it out a bit.

Not true... Ben's pass numbers after contact is unbelievable.

The problem isn't Ben after pressure, it is the fact that our O line is letting Ben be put under pressure ALL THE TIME.

NO QB can perform like that.

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-02-2008, 07:19 PM
Not true... Ben's pass numbers after contact is unbelievable.

The problem isn't Ben after pressure, it is the fact that our O line is letting Ben be put under pressure ALL THE TIME.

NO QB can perform like that.

Preach, do you have a link to this seasons "pass numbers after contact" for 2008 season??

I think a lot of the praise for " passing after contact" and the statistics that the ones that the MNF crew like to mention are "career" stats. Bens first couple years in the league he was pressured and escaped the pocket which resulted in some big plays. Defenses now pressure him outside-in to keep him from rolling outside and getting the big play.

His 23 sacks are plays where his "passing after contact" numbers are zero and I honestly cant remember him making 23 offsetting big plays after getting hit.......maybe 10 plays.

The only positive is that the Redskins only have 10 sacks in 8 games and if they cant pressure Ben like the Jags and Texans.....the Steelers offense has a good chance.

Preacher
11-02-2008, 07:22 PM
Preach, do you have a link to this seasons "pass numbers after contact" for 2008 season??

I think a lot of the praise for " passing after contact" and the statistics that the ones that the MNF crew like to mention are "career" stats. Bens first couple years in the league he was pressured and escaped the pocket which resulted in some big plays. Defenses now pressure him outside-in to keep him from rolling outside and getting the big play.

His 23 sacks are plays where his "passing after contact" numbers are zero and I honestly cant remember him making 23 offsetting big plays after getting hit.......maybe 10 plays.

The only positive is that the Redskins only have 10 sacks in 8 games and if they cant pressure Ben like the Jags and Texans.....the Steelers offense has a good chance.

We may be missing each other.... Of course when Ben is sacked... nothing can happen. But Ben is pressured, and is then on the run, he plays real well.

Teams have compensated to try to keep him in the pocket, but then again, our line can't do anything to keep anyone else out of the pocket.

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-02-2008, 07:32 PM
We may be missing each other.... Of course when Ben is sacked... nothing can happen. But Ben is pressured, and is then on the run, he plays real well.

Teams have compensated to try to keep him in the pocket, but then again, our line can't do anything to keep anyone else out of the pocket.

I dont agree that its ALL THE O-LINE's FAULT. Like many here post.

When the defense sends more than you can block, then they will get thru and sack or hit the QB......pretty elementary. Especially if the QB holds onto the ball long because nobody is open or he is trying to escape the rush and make a big play.

Ron Jaworski broke down the Eagles 9 sack game and put 3 on the O-line, 3 on the QB's and 3 on the WR/TE's. I think that is closer to the real truth of the matter(I had 4-Oline and 2 WR's).

What Ben and the Steelers need to do is recognize the blitz and make teams pay for gambling and sending blitzers, with quick passes to hot receivers, RB's, Screens, etc. That is all that will stop the blitzes, but Ben is not so much of an accurate, efficient passer instead of a big play QB. BA needs to compensate.

Even if the O line was top 5 in the NFL, they cant stop 6 rushers.

steelpride12
11-02-2008, 08:40 PM
I dont agree that its ALL THE O-LINE's FAULT. Like many here post.

When the defense sends more than you can block, then they will get thru and sack or hit the QB......pretty elementary. Especially if the QB holds onto the ball long because nobody is open or he is trying to escape the rush and make a big play.

Ron Jaworski broke down the Eagles 9 sack game and put 3 on the O-line, 3 on the QB's and 3 on the WR/TE's. I think that is closer to the real truth of the matter(I had 4-Oline and 2 WR's).

What Ben and the Steelers need to do is recognize the blitz and make teams pay for gambling and sending blitzers, with quick passes to hot receivers, RB's, Screens, etc. That is all that will stop the blitzes, but Ben is not so much of an accurate, efficient passer instead of a big play QB. BA needs to compensate.

Even if the O line was top 5 in the NFL, they cant stop 6 rushers.

How can you not blame the OL. Most of the sacks come on bad picks the from the line itself. Arians can't keep putting Miller and Spaeth in to protect or it would give Ben an even harder time finding an open receiver.

If the line were good this would not be a problem, it would be easy for a FB or RB to pick up any extra rusher, but when they blitz 7 and 4 get through im pretty sure 3 out of 4 or 4 out of 4 times its on the line.

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-02-2008, 09:01 PM
How can you not blame the OL. Most of the sacks come on bad picks the from the line itself. Arians can't keep putting Miller and Spaeth in to protect or it would give Ben an even harder time finding an open receiver.

If the line were good this would not be a problem, it would be easy for a FB or RB to pick up any extra rusher, but when they blitz 7 and 4 get through im pretty sure 3 out of 4 or 4 out of 4 times its on the line.

I said I dont place ALL the blame on the O-line. I watch the games and rewatch them the following day normally. It is upon this time that I see breakdowns in technique and communication by the O-line. I also see times where they pickup the blitz and I can count to 5......but the ball has not been thrown.

I probably place 60% of the sacks on the O-line and the other 40% on any combination of defensive coverage, poor receiver recognition of blitz, prolonged play development, or QB not getting rid of the ball.

Commentators, who are ex QB's have said it a few times this season. As a QB, you have to have a mental clock in the face of a blitz and know when to get rid of it. Arians comment is absolutely correct.....when they send one more than you have to block, you leave the guy the furthest away alone and throw it before he gets to the QB.

You are right that if 4 of 7 come free, its bad communication on the O line, but when 6 get picked up and 1 comes free......the majority of fans still blame it on the O line. Ignorance is bliss.

SteelMember
11-03-2008, 07:54 AM
After the lines problems the past two seasons, maybe Ben should give up calling protections and just concentrate on throwing the ball. Just putting it out there. :noidea:

missedgehead
11-03-2008, 09:18 AM
Well, the o line is part of the problem, no doubt, but our QB HAS to learn to pick up the blitzes better. He needs to recognize when the defense is going to blitz and audible out, and I am sure he is allowed to audible at this point. JMO