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View Full Version : Folks, this is why we need to buy guns and ammo


Steelman16
11-13-2008, 12:55 AM
This was written last year after the V-Tech Massacre.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

VIRGINIA TECH MASSACRE
25 years murder-free
in 'Gun Town USA'
Crime rate plummeted after law
required firearms for residents

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: April 19, 2007
1:52 pm Eastern

2008 WorldNetDaily.com




Kennesaw, Ga., City Hall
As the nation debates whether more guns or fewer can prevent tragedies like the Virginia Tech Massacre, a notable anniversary passed last month in a Georgia town that witnessed a dramatic plunge in crime and violence after mandating residents to own firearms.

In March 1982, 25 years ago, the small town of Kennesaw responding to a handgun ban in Morton Grove, Ill. unanimously passed an ordinance requiring each head of household to own and maintain a gun. Since then, despite dire predictions of "Wild West" showdowns and increased violence and accidents, not a single resident has been involved in a fatal shooting as a victim, attacker or defender.

The crime rate initially plummeted for several years after the passage of the ordinance, with the 2005 per capita crime rate actually significantly lower than it was in 1981, the year before passage of the law.

Prior to enactment of the law, Kennesaw had a population of just 5,242 but a crime rate significantly higher (4,332 per 100,000) than the national average (3,899 per 100,000). The latest statistics available for the year 2005 show the rate at 2,027 per 100,000. Meanwhile, the population has skyrocketed to 28,189.


By comparison, the population of Morton Grove, the first city in Illinois to adopt a gun ban for anyone other than police officers, has actually dropped slightly and stands at 22,202, according to 2005 statistics. More significantly, perhaps, the city's crime rate increased by 15.7 percent immediately after the gun ban, even though the overall crime rate in Cook County rose only 3 percent. Today, by comparison, the township's crime rate stands at 2,268 per 100,000.

This was not what some predicted.

In a column titled "Gun Town USA," Art Buchwald suggested Kennesaw would soon become a place where routine disagreements between neighbors would be settled in shootouts. The Washington Post mocked Kennesaw as "the brave little city soon to be pistol-packing capital of the world." Phil Donahue invited the mayor on his show.

Reuters, the European news service, today revisited the Kennesaw controversy following the Virginia Tech Massacre.

Police Lt. Craig Graydon said: "When the Kennesaw law was passed in 1982 there was a substantial drop in crime and we have maintained a really low crime rate since then. We are sure it is one of the lowest (crime) towns in the metro area." Kennesaw is just north of Atlanta.

The Reuters story went on to report: "Since the Virginia Tech shootings, some conservative U.S. talk show hosts have rejected attempts to link the massacre to the availability of guns, arguing that had students been allowed to carry weapons on campus someone might have been able to shoot the killer."

Virginia Tech, like many of the nation's schools and college campuses, is a so-called "gun-free zone," which Second Amendment supporters say invites gun violence especially from disturbed individuals seeking to kill as many victims as possible.

Cho Seung-Hui murdered 32 and wounded another 15 before turning his gun on himself.

George Washington said, "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth."

I think Ol' George knew what he was talking about. With the election of Obama, and his stance on firearms, we could be seeing a serious jeopardy to our freedom.

MACH1
11-13-2008, 01:00 AM
Between Obama and his drunken side kick, gun owners are in big trouble. Gun control may not be on the top of the list right now but it is on there. I wouldn't put it past him trying to coattail something on banning firearms along the way.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
11-13-2008, 01:36 AM
I remember giving a speech on gun control back in speech class. History has shown us that it has never worked, and common sense tells you it never will. A criminal will break the law to obtain a gun, and the law abiding citizen will not and thus have no means of protection. Name one illegal thing that a criminal can't get a hold of.

Preacher
11-13-2008, 02:41 AM
I remember giving a speech on gun control back in speech class. History has shown us that it has never worked, and common sense tells you it never will. A criminal will break the law to obtain a gun, and the law abiding citizen will not and thus have no means of protection. Name one illegal thing that a criminal can't get a hold of.

Criminal --- Bengals

One Illegal thing (against the rules, or within the rules even) they will never get -- a Touchdown!

stillers4me
11-13-2008, 05:08 AM
Criminal --- Bengals

One Illegal thing (against the rules, or within the rules even) they will never get -- a Touchdown!

ZING! :laughing:

The Patriot
11-13-2008, 05:11 AM
I think there is a difference between owning a gun and owning a semi-automatic assault rifle.

GBMelBlount
11-13-2008, 06:05 AM
I think there is a difference between owning a gun and owning a semi-automatic assault rifle.

I understand your point. The larger issue though is that in the vast majority of cases, when guns are made illegal, crime increases. simple as that.

SCSTILLER
11-13-2008, 07:03 AM
I understand your point. The larger issue though is that in the vast majority of cases, when guns are made illegal, crime increases. simple as that.


Very true. If the criminal knows that there are no guns or very few guns, it is going to be open season for him/her. I remember a documentary on S. Africa. They basically crippled the ability of the average citizen to buy a gun, and violence skyrocketed.

rbryan
11-13-2008, 07:25 AM
I work in Kennesaw, GA. "Gun control" has a whole different meaning here.

It's no wonder to me that politiicians want to take away your firearms. If I was as crooked as Joe Biden I'd be afraid of anyone with a gun too.

GBMelBlount
11-13-2008, 07:42 AM
I'm not calling you out in any way rb, just wondering specifically what it is about Biden you feel is crooked and how that relates to gun control. This is a serious question. I know very little about our vice president to be other than that he is an attorney and career politican who has been hired to save the largest economy in the world.....

stlrtruck
11-13-2008, 07:57 AM
Gun Control only works for honest law obiding citizens. Criminals will always find a way to get a gun when they want one.

MasterOfPuppets
11-13-2008, 08:10 AM
I'm not calling you out in any way rb, just wondering specifically what it is about Biden you feel is crooked and how that relates to gun control. This is a serious question. I know very little about our vice president to be other than that he is an attorney and career politican who has been hired to save the largest economy in the world.....

what it is about Biden you feel is crooked

he is an attorney and career politican
:uhh:

MasterOfPuppets
11-13-2008, 08:13 AM
Gun Control only works for honest law obiding citizens. Criminals will always find a way to get a gun when they want one.yep....hows that "war on drugs" doin ? the only thing it'll accomplish, is create richer criminals. they'll have a brand new source of illegal merchandice to peddle.$$$$CHA ..CHING $$$$

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
11-13-2008, 08:37 AM
I know very little about our vice president to be ...

What else is new. We know very little about our president to be too...:doh:

revefsreleets
11-13-2008, 08:52 AM
If Obama wants to fight this battle, he'll have his hands full. The NRA is uber powerful. In 94 mid-terms they went after the Dems who were pro Brady Bill and knocked like 90% of them off their seats.

I suspect this is an issue like abortion, which is a personal choice but kind of untouchable as far as sweeping policy change goes. Political suicide...

PisnNapalm
11-13-2008, 09:09 AM
Gun control means being able to hit your target.

I can pick off a fly at 50 yards. Can you?

(for reference that orange circle is 1 inch in diameter)

http://www.pisnnapalm.com/pics/ruger/DSC00341.JPG


Back on topic... Gun control will never ever work, unless the goal is to disarm the populace. It's not for the safety of the people it's for the "safety" of the government from the people.

devilsdancefloor
11-13-2008, 09:24 AM
I think there is a difference between owning a gun and owning a semi-automatic assault rifle.

youre right it is all in the trigger pull i always get a huge lol when people say semi auto ASSAULT rifle. the media started saying ASSAULT and everyone is like oh yea no assault weapons next it will be no rubber band guns they are asssssssaaaullllttttt rubber band guns. :thumbsup: but you are also the one who thinks obama isnt a socialist

tony hipchest
11-13-2008, 09:26 AM
Gun control means being able to hit your target.

I can pick off a fly at 50 yards. Can you?

.

yes. i can also hit a dime with a s&w .357 at 5-7 yds, and put a hole through the center of a spoon from 12-15 yds.

no scope, no stand. just a good eye and steady hand.

i agree with revs. untouchable.

i'd still like to get a tek-9 and a desert eagle just for fun.

stlrtruck
11-13-2008, 09:28 AM
Gun control means being able to hit your target.

I can pick off a fly at 50 yards. Can you?

(for reference that orange circle is 1 inch in diameter)

http://www.pisnnapalm.com/pics/ruger/DSC00341.JPG


Back on topic... Gun control will never ever work, unless the goal is to disarm the populace. It's not for the safety of the people it's for the "safety" of the government from the people.

If I come out to CA will you train me to be as accurate? :thumbsup: Nice shooting!

PisnNapalm
11-13-2008, 10:04 AM
Semi-auto = 1 trigger squeeze gets you one round fired.
Full-auto = 1 trigger squeeze will keep firing until the gun runs out of ammo.

I've shot a full-auto carbine before. It was a hoot to shoot but afterward I thought... 1 pull of the trigger just burned through $5 wirth of ammo.

I strongly support gun ownership, but even I kind of draw the line at full-auto honest to goodness assault rifles. I think it's more about my philosophy for shooting. One well placed round is worth more than all the rounds in the world that don't hit the target.

anyway...

devilsdancefloor
11-13-2008, 10:09 AM
one shot one kill sir!

MasterOfPuppets
11-13-2008, 10:41 AM
Semi-auto = 1 trigger squeeze gets you one round fired.
Full-auto = 1 trigger squeeze will keep firing until the gun runs out of ammo.

I've shot a full-auto carbine before. It was a hoot to shoot but afterward I thought... 1 pull of the trigger just burned through $5 wirth of ammo.

I strongly support gun ownership, but even I kind of draw the line at full-auto honest to goodness assault rifles. I think it's more about my philosophy for shooting. One well placed round is worth more than all the rounds in the world that don't hit the target.

anyway...thats it.....i can kill someone just as efficiently with my bolt action 22 mag, or my, pump 12 guage, as you can with a semi automatic.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
11-13-2008, 11:02 AM
thats it.....i can kill someone just as efficiently with my bolt action 22 mag, or my, pump 12 guage, as you can with a semi automatic.

Tell that to the cops in this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-cMIVNntHs , remeber that one?


BTW to prove all of our points, I'm pretty sure that their assault rifles and armor piercing bullets weren't legal, but low and behold look who got ahold of them...*GASP*...not criminals?

One of the first things Hitler did was disarm the public.

MACH1
11-13-2008, 11:03 AM
Hmm...Buy some definitions my 4 shot semi-auto 12 GA. is an assault gun and my old 22 that holds 18 rounds in a tube would be a assault rifle.

I think we should be like Switzerland, where every adult male must own a firearm by law. When was the last time they were invaded?

revefsreleets
11-13-2008, 11:05 AM
But I wonder if Obama's plan to raise the tax 500% on ammo will go through???

MACH1
11-13-2008, 11:06 AM
Tell that to the cops in this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-cMIVNntHs , remeber that one?


BTW to prove all of our points, I'm pretty sure that their assault rifles and armor piercing bullets weren't legal, but low and behold look who got ahold of them...*GASP*...not criminals?

One of the first things Hitler did was disarm the public.

AK-47's are legal as semi-autos and I can go buy armor piercing bullets at the local sports shop. SKS's are legal too.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
11-13-2008, 11:09 AM
Hmm...owned.

Well, I AM PRETTY SURE THEY WEREN'T LISCENCED AND REGISTERED! :flap:

tony hipchest
11-13-2008, 11:09 AM
my old 22 that holds 18 rounds in a tube would be a assault rifle.

sounds like my antique winchester. semi's need to stay. i'd hate to see fully auto banned, but really they are designed for war and destruction as opposed to sport, hobby, hunting, self protection. :noidea: they sure are fun and cool though.

but nobody in america is gonna "disarm the public".

(all this gun talk is getting me hyped for the new Punisher movie.)

MACH1
11-13-2008, 11:19 AM
Hmm...owned.

Well, I AM PRETTY SURE THEY WEREN'T LISCENCED AND REGISTERED! :flap:

:drink:

Yep...And one more thing you may find interesting in that video is the cops acquired the fire power and ammo to fight back at the closest sporting goods store.

MACH1
11-13-2008, 11:38 AM
But I wonder if Obama's plan to raise the tax 500% on ammo will go through???

Yet another brilliant move by Obama. :doh: That tax will put some ammo makers out of business, yet losing more jobs. Which in turn hits the sportsman's pocketbooks again. Hunting is a multi-billion dollar industry. Hitting the sportsman hurts the hunting supply stores which in turn costs more jobs.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
11-13-2008, 11:40 AM
:drink:

Yep...And one more thing you may find interesting in that video is the cops acquired the fire power and ammo to fight back at the closest sporting goods store.

Everyone should be given a BAR and taught how to use it...:thumbsup:

MACH1
11-13-2008, 11:46 AM
Everyone should be given a BAR and taught how to use it...:thumbsup:

A Browning BAR. :chuckle:

Preacher
11-13-2008, 12:19 PM
Let's say guns are banned, and the cops/govt. are successful in getting all the illegal guns of the streets.

Then what happens?

Knives will be used.... and people would be up in arms to ban knives. Don't laugh, it is already happening in the UK.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4581871.stm

MasterOfPuppets
11-13-2008, 12:43 PM
AK-47's are legal as semi-autos and I can go buy armor piercing bullets at the local sports shop. SKS's are legal too.i dropped by to see a friend who works in a pawn shop....he tried to sell me an AK-47 they had in stock for $600...:laughing:

MasterOfPuppets
11-13-2008, 12:45 PM
Let's say guns are banned, and the cops/govt. are successful in getting all the illegal guns of the streets.

Then what happens?

Knives will be used.... and people would be up in arms to ban knives. Don't laugh, it is already happening in the UK.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4581871.stm then they start using stolen legal guns....:noidea:

Preacher
11-13-2008, 01:22 PM
then they start using stolen legal guns....:noidea:

In my scenario, all guns are banned, like in the UK.

My point is, people will use whatever is handy for them to use.

MACH1
11-13-2008, 02:29 PM
Let's say guns are banned, and the cops/govt. are successful in getting all the illegal guns of the streets.

Then what happens?

Knives will be used.... and people would be up in arms to ban knives. Don't laugh, it is already happening in the UK.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4581871.stm

That only works on law abiding people not the criminals.

PisnNapalm
11-13-2008, 03:59 PM
They banned guns in the UK and violent crime went up 40%. Same thing happened in Australia.

MasterOfPuppets
11-13-2008, 04:03 PM
They banned guns in the UK and violent crime went up 40%. Same thing happened in Australia.guess you don't have to worry about taking a knife to a gun fight....:chuckle:

MasterOfPuppets
11-13-2008, 04:06 PM
One year after gun-owners were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed, including semi-automatic .22 rifles and shotguns, a program costing the government over 500 million dollars, the results are in...

A dramatic increase in criminal activity has been experienced. Gun control advocates respond "Just wait... we'll be safer... you'll see...".

OBSERVABLE FACT, AFTER 12 MONTHS OF DATA:

* Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2%
* Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6%
* Australia-wide, armed-robberies are up 44% (yes, FORTY-FOUR PERCENT)
* In the state of Victoria, homicides-with-firearms are up 300%
* Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in homicides-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
* Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in armed-robbery-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
* There has been a dramatic increase in breakins-and-assaults-of- the-elderly
* At the time of the ban, the Prime Minister said "self-defense is not a reason for owning a firearm"
* From 1910 to present, homicides in Australia had averaged about 1.8-per-100,000 or lower, a safe society by any standard.
* The ban has destroyed Australia's standings in some international sport shooting competitions
* The membership of the Australian Sports Shooting Association has risen to 112,000, a 200% increase, in response to the ban and as an attempt to organize against further controls, which are expected.
* Australian politicians are on the spot and at a loss to explain how no improvement in "safety" has been observed after such monumental effort and expense was successfully expended in "ridding society of guns". Their response has been to "wait longer".

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/aus.html

Preacher
11-13-2008, 04:15 PM
One year after gun-owners were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed, including semi-automatic .22 rifles and shotguns, a program costing the government over 500 million dollars, the results are in...

A dramatic increase in criminal activity has been experienced. Gun control advocates respond "Just wait... we'll be safer... you'll see...".

OBSERVABLE FACT, AFTER 12 MONTHS OF DATA:

* Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2%
* Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6%
* Australia-wide, armed-robberies are up 44% (yes, FORTY-FOUR PERCENT)
* In the state of Victoria, homicides-with-firearms are up 300%
* Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in homicides-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
* Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in armed-robbery-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
* There has been a dramatic increase in breakins-and-assaults-of- the-elderly
* At the time of the ban, the Prime Minister said "self-defense is not a reason for owning a firearm"
* From 1910 to present, homicides in Australia had averaged about 1.8-per-100,000 or lower, a safe society by any standard.
* The ban has destroyed Australia's standings in some international sport shooting competitions
* The membership of the Australian Sports Shooting Association has risen to 112,000, a 200% increase, in response to the ban and as an attempt to organize against further controls, which are expected.
* Australian politicians are on the spot and at a loss to explain how no improvement in "safety" has been observed after such monumental effort and expense was successfully expended in "ridding society of guns". Their response has been to "wait longer".

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/aus.html

If it wasn't so sad, it would be hilarious.

OF course, if they were real serious, they would band kitchen knives as well! :rolleyes:

MasterOfPuppets
11-13-2008, 04:15 PM
Monday, 16 July, 2001, 04:50 GMT 05:50 UK
Handgun crime 'up' despite ban
Handgun
Handguns were banned following the Dunblane massacre
A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned.

The research, commissioned by the Countryside Alliance's Campaign for Shooting, has concluded that existing laws are targeting legitimate users of firearms rather than criminals.

The ban on ownership of handguns was introduced in 1997 as a result of the Dunblane massacre, when Thomas Hamilton opened fire at a primary school leaving 16 children and their teacher dead.


Existing gun laws do not lead to crime reduction and a safer place

David Bredin
Campaign for Shooting
But the report suggests that despite the restrictions on ownership the use of handguns in crime is rising.

The Centre for Defence Studies at Kings College in London, which carried out the research, said the number of crimes in which a handgun was reported increased from 2,648 in 1997/98 to 3,685 in 1999/2000.

It also said there was no link between high levels of gun crime and areas where there were still high levels of lawful gun possession.

Of the 20 police areas with the lowest number of legally held firearms, 10 had an above average level of gun crime.

And of the 20 police areas with the highest levels of legally held guns only two had armed crime levels above the average

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

TheWarDen86
11-13-2008, 04:20 PM
I think there is a difference between owning a gun and owning a semi-automatic assault rifle.

No! There is a difference between owning a gun and owning artillery.

TheWarDen86
11-13-2008, 04:22 PM
Gun control means being able to hit your target.

I can pick off a fly at 50 yards. Can you?

(for reference that orange circle is 1 inch in diameter)

http://www.pisnnapalm.com/pics/ruger/DSC00341.JPG


Back on topic... Gun control will never ever work, unless the goal is to disarm the populace. It's not for the safety of the people it's for the "safety" of the government from the people.

Bah! I can pick the wings off a gnat at 500 yards, homie. :chuckle: ...or at least I could. Been a while since I've had a nice long range to shoot on.

Preacher
11-13-2008, 04:38 PM
Bah! I can pick the wings off a gnat at 500 yards, homie. :chuckle: ...or at least I could. Been a while since I've had a nice long range to shoot on.

I can catch a fly with chopsticks!!

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
11-13-2008, 04:43 PM
I can catch a fly with chopsticks!! I can catch a chopstick with flies...

TheWarDen86
11-13-2008, 04:48 PM
I can catch a chopstick with flies...

WINNER!!! :chuckle:

xfl2001fan
11-13-2008, 04:58 PM
Hmm...Buy some definitions my 4 shot semi-auto 12 GA. is an assault gun and my old 22 that holds 18 rounds in a tube would be a assault rifle.

I think we should be like Switzerland, where every adult male must own a firearm by law. When was the last time they were invaded?When's the last time anyone had a reason to invade Switzerland?

Yeah Gun Control (to me) is all about proper sight picture. It takes something like 33 muscles to smile, 7 to lift your middle finger and 3 to execute a proper trigger squeeze. I'm just saying.

beSteelmyheart
11-13-2008, 06:02 PM
How can a government "force" anybody to give up a firearm? I know it sounds like a stupid innocent question but what are they going to do, come into my home & take it?
I have one gun & it's not going anywhere, I don't care what they say.
Florida has a good law for protecting yourself in your own home & that, with a gun, is a little bit of piece of mind when you have a delusional 6'2" ec-coworker on Paxil coming to your door with declarations of love & a bunch of roses!
Gun control for me is control yourself. Don't cross that line & nobody gets shot.

fansince'76
11-13-2008, 06:14 PM
Florida has a good law for protecting yourself in your own home & that, with a gun, is a little bit of piece of mind when you have a delusional 6'2" ec-coworker on Paxil coming to your door with declarations of love & a bunch of roses!

:toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

Preacher
11-13-2008, 06:18 PM
How can a government "force" anybody to give up a firearm? I know it sounds like a stupid innocent question but what are they going to do, come into my home & take it?
I have one gun & it's not going anywhere, I don't care what they say.
Florida has a good law for protecting yourself in your own home & that, with a gun, is a little bit of piece of mind when you have a delusional 6'2" ec-coworker on Paxil coming to your door with declarations of love & a bunch of roses!
Gun control for me is control yourself. Don't cross that line & nobody gets shot.


One single click in that case is a beautiful sound... the sound of the safety being taken off!!

beSteelmyheart
11-13-2008, 06:24 PM
Do the proponents of gun control know what it's like to feel mismatched & scared?

GutterflowerSteel
11-13-2008, 06:41 PM
How can a government "force" anybody to give up a firearm? I know it sounds like a stupid innocent question but what are they going to do, come into my home & take it?
I have one gun & it's not going anywhere, I don't care what they say.
Florida has a good law for protecting yourself in your own home & that, with a gun, is a little bit of piece of mind when you have a delusional 6'2" ec-coworker on Paxil coming to your door with declarations of love & a bunch of roses!
Gun control for me is control yourself. Don't cross that line & nobody gets shot.

RIGHT ON!

I feel the same way - I haven't had to draw my gun on anyone yet and hopefully I never will. But I won't hesitate to pop a cap up someone's ass if they're coming after me or a loved one.

I don't know how the gov't could force anyone to give up their guns - they'll never get mine. There's no way - and who is gonna come to your house and force you to hand them over? I don't think anybody is going to want that job!

TheWarDen86
11-13-2008, 06:57 PM
RIGHT ON!

I feel the same way - I haven't had to draw my gun on anyone yet and hopefully I never will. But I won't hesitate to pop a cap up someone's ass if they're coming after me or a loved one.

I don't know how the gov't could force anyone to give up their guns - they'll never get mine. There's no way - and who is gonna come to your house and force you to hand them over? I don't think anybody is going to want that job!

Just remember, shoot an intruder in the face. You can tell any story you want after that. Inflicting merely an injury will lead to scum attorney lawsuits, etc. Shoot him the FACE!

GutterflowerSteel
11-13-2008, 07:22 PM
Just remember, shoot an intruder in the face. You can tell any story you want after that. Inflicting merely an injury will lead to scum attorney lawsuits, etc. Shoot him the FACE!

That's what my dad taught us from the start when we learned how to handle guns - when it comes to an intruder, it's kill or be killed.

TheWarDen86
11-13-2008, 07:28 PM
That's what my dad taught us from the start when we learned how to handle guns - when it comes to an intruder, it's kill or be killed.

That was then. Now it's "kill or be sued." :chuckle:

MACH1
11-13-2008, 07:35 PM
Just remember, shoot an intruder in the face. You can tell any story you want after that. Inflicting merely an injury will lead to scum attorney lawsuits, etc. Shoot him the FACE!

And make sure they fall on the inside of your house, if not drag em back in.

devilsdancefloor
11-13-2008, 07:51 PM
In my scenario, all guns are banned, like in the UK.

My point is, people will use whatever is handy for them to use.

ball peen hammers are what most biker gangs carry cause hell they are legal in all 50 states and you dont need a permit. so ya people will use whatever gets teh job at hand done.

stlrtruck
11-14-2008, 07:39 AM
RIGHT ON!

I feel the same way - I haven't had to draw my gun on anyone yet and hopefully I never will. But I won't hesitate to pop a cap up someone's ass if they're coming after me or a loved one.

I don't know how the gov't could force anyone to give up their guns - they'll never get mine. There's no way - and who is gonna come to your house and force you to hand them over? I don't think anybody is going to want that job!

Remind me not to come to your house unannounced :rofl:

I don't have a gun but if things in this country continue on the path they are it may be only a matter of time before one is in my home.

stlrtruck
11-14-2008, 07:42 AM
And make sure they fall on the inside of your house, if not drag em back in.

I had an old co-worker tell me once that when he was visiting his dad in Tennessee and there were some hunters on the property. So his dad called the police and the sheriff told him, "Damn it, if you shoot 'em, drag them into your house!"

GBMelBlount
11-14-2008, 07:47 AM
RIGHT ON!

I feel the same way - I haven't had to draw my gun on anyone yet and hopefully I never will. But I won't hesitate to pop a cap up someone's ass if they're coming after me or a loved one.

I don't know how the gov't could force anyone to give up their guns - they'll never get mine. There's no way - and who is gonna come to your house and force you to hand them over? I don't think anybody is going to want that job!

True dat! Not to mention the instant "street cred" you'll get! :chuckle:

GutterflowerSteel
11-14-2008, 07:50 AM
:wink02::wink02:Remind me not to come to your house unannounced :rofl:

I don't have a gun but if things in this country continue on the path they are it may be only a matter of time before one is in my home.

Call first - and wave a white flag as you ring the doorbell :laughing:

Better get your gun now, to be on the safe side - and learn how to reload :wink02:

fansince'76
11-14-2008, 07:55 AM
And make sure they fall on the inside of your house, if not drag em back in.

:toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

rbryan
11-14-2008, 11:19 AM
I spent 6 yeas in the Corps, my secondary mos was marksmanship intructor. Went to sniper school and shot in matches all over the world.

I don't have a weapon in my house. ( I have a Louisville slugger under the bed and I'm not afraid to use it.)

Seriously though. The stats don't lie. Odds are if a homeowner shoots someone, only 1 out of 100 times will it be that intruder breaking into your house. The other 99 times someone is getting shot by accident.

I fully endorse the right to bear arms, but it's a different world we live in today.

TheWarDen86
11-14-2008, 11:29 AM
I spent 6 yeas in the Corps, my secondary mos was marksmanship intructor. Went to sniper school and shot in matches all over the world.

I don't have a weapon in my house. ( I have a Louisville slugger under the bed and I'm not afraid to use it.)

Seriously though. The stats don't lie. Odds are if a homeowner shoots someone, only 1 out of 100 times will it be that intruder breaking into your house. The other 99 times someone is getting shot by accident.

I fully endorse the right to bear arms, but it's a different world we live in today.

I do not yet have a firearm in a postion where I can use it in a moments notice (nor can it be used against me). I've milled over getting a quick access lock box but, for this reason I'm still thinking it over. In the mean time, I have an expandable steel baton that I am proficient in using. :chuckle:

xfl2001fan
11-14-2008, 11:36 AM
Florida has a good law for protecting yourself in your own home & that, with a gun, is a little bit of piece of mind when you have a delusional 6'2" ec-coworker on Paxil coming to your door with declarations of love & a bunch of roses!

Hypothetically speaking of course. :wink:

Hammer Of The GODS
11-14-2008, 05:16 PM
They'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands!!!

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/04/06/charltonheston_wideweb__470x303,0.jpg

You want a modern day revolution?

Try and take our guns away! Bring it on! :bringit:

PisnNapalm
11-14-2008, 06:52 PM
I spent 6 yeas in the Corps, my secondary mos was marksmanship intructor. Went to sniper school and shot in matches all over the world.

I don't have a weapon in my house. ( I have a Louisville slugger under the bed and I'm not afraid to use it.)

Seriously though. The stats don't lie. Odds are if a homeowner shoots someone, only 1 out of 100 times will it be that intruder breaking into your house. The other 99 times someone is getting shot by accident.

I fully endorse the right to bear arms, but it's a different world we live in today.


What's different about the world? Stop using cliches.

Show me your STATS. You want STATS about guns? Go here... http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.0/GunFacts5-0-screen.pdf

EDIT:: There seems to be a problem with that website right now. It was working fine a few days ago.

PisnNapalm
11-14-2008, 06:56 PM
Awesome quote....

"When I called I told them I had 2 pounds of pressure on a 3-pound trigger, and they might want to get someone down here before one of us sneezed," said Woodling, 47.

http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081114/NEWS/811140336/-1/NEWS05


The best quote from the article.

Woodling, Paradise Township sewage enforcement officer and a self-employed excavator, said he has a concealed weapons permit and always carries a gun. "The way the world is, it's like American Express. I never leave home without it," Woodling said. "Police cannot be everywhere all the time."

beSteelmyheart
11-14-2008, 07:55 PM
Hypothetically speaking of course. :wink:

Nope, this actually happened a few months ago & what a long freaky story it is! It's funny now but when it was happening I actually brought my gun out & then ended up putting it away & called the cops instead to have him removed from the property.
(before they pass anymore gun laws they need to do something about the pharmecutical companies passing out drugs that that turn some people into monsters but that is another topic)
Also, down here the family of the injured/dead criminal invader has no right to sue.:applaudit:

Preacher
11-14-2008, 08:55 PM
Awesome quote....



http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081114/NEWS/811140336/-1/NEWS05


The best quote from the article.


So tell me, how long before that house is robbed again?

PisnNapalm
11-14-2008, 09:10 PM
Huh??

Preacher
11-14-2008, 10:21 PM
Huh??

Was that huh? directed at me?

It was a sarcastic question... no one will go within a mile of that house with intentions of stealing something.


We really really need a sarcasm smiley.

PisnNapalm
11-14-2008, 10:31 PM
We really really need a sarcasm smiley.

Yes we do. I didn't quite know what context you meant.

Leftoverhard
11-14-2008, 10:49 PM
( I have a Louisville slugger under the bed and I'm not afraid to use it.)


Me too - I used to have to release impound vehicles to some pretty shady characters, doing high dollar cash transactions without anything but a sweet, battered Louisville slugger and a chained Rott - pretty much the same combo I have at home. I never needed a gun - I've always loved target shooting but I've never felt like a gun was any kind of home self defense weapon - more like an accident waiting to happen.

Preacher
11-14-2008, 10:51 PM
Me too - I used to have to release impound vehicles to some pretty shady characters, doing high dollar cash transactions without anything but a sweet, battered Louisville slugger and a chained Rott - pretty much the same combo I have at home. I never needed a gun - I've always loved target shooting but I've never felt like a gun was any kind of home self defense weapon - more like an accident waiting to happen.

To each there own... I can understand what you're saying. However, there has been a couple times when I would have preferred to have a gun.

MasterOfPuppets
11-14-2008, 11:30 PM
To each there own... I can understand what you're saying. However, there has been a couple times when I would have preferred to have a gun.The Packin Preacher ......:chuckle: ....... :idea: i see a new tv series !!!.... Billy "The Baptist" Kid....

Steelman16
11-14-2008, 11:34 PM
The Packin Preacher ......:chuckle: ....... :idea: i see a new tv series !!!.... Billy "The Baptist" Kid....

:toofunny:

Man's best friends are his dog, God, and his gun.

Or in the words of the Tennessee Mountain Man,

Live simply.
Love generously.
Care deeply.
Speak kindly.
Carry a .45,
Leave the rest
Up to God!

:wink02:

MasterOfPuppets
11-14-2008, 11:40 PM
The Packin Preacher ......:chuckle: ....... :idea: i see a new tv series !!!.... Billy "The Baptist" Kid....
and as a spinoff ...."The Vatican Vigilante" ...

Preacher
11-16-2008, 12:24 AM
God loves you so much, He gave his only begotten son... and a trigger finger.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
11-16-2008, 02:25 AM
I spent a few years in a shady little place in Indiana you might have heard of. Does Gary ring a bell? Anyways, a detective we met there told us that everyone in Gary should own a 12 gauge. He said you don't even have to shoot it. When a burglar is in a quiet house and hears that tell tale pump sound, he will shit his pants while running out of the house, never to return :chuckle:

steelwall
11-16-2008, 02:40 AM
Not sure about every state, but in NC you can go right in a pawn shop and buy a black powder pistol. No papers, no wait.

Some of you are thinking ....oh brother a black powder pistol..... I happen to own 2 back home in the US, a 30. caliber and a 44.

The 30. shoots 6 rounds, and the 44. 5.

Yes, you dont want to be in an all out fire fight with one, as they do take a signifigant amount of time to relaod, but most people do not get into all out gun battles, it's usually 6 shots or less at close range.

And trust me you do not want to get hit with a lead ball.

TroysBadDawg
11-16-2008, 10:49 AM
I reload my own. all calibers and shotshell.

MACH1
11-16-2008, 10:58 AM
Not sure about every state, but in NC you can go right in a pawn shop and buy a black powder pistol. No papers, no wait.

Some of you are thinking ....oh brother a black powder pistol..... I happen to own 2 back home in the US, a 30. caliber and a 44.

The 30. shoots 6 rounds, and the 44. 5.

Yes, you dont want to be in an all out fire fight with one, as they do take a signifigant amount of time to relaod, but most people do not get into all out gun battles, it's usually 6 shots or less at close range.

And trust me you do not want to get hit with a lead ball.

Yeah...But just think of the smoke screen you could put up to make a hasty exit. :laughing:

stlrtruck
11-17-2008, 09:24 AM
Saw a bumper sticker this morning that read:

A person with a gun is called a citizen
A person without a gun is called a subject

beSteelmyheart
11-17-2008, 06:34 PM
Saw a bumper sticker this morning that read:
"A person with a gun is called a citizen
A person without a gun is called a subject "

Or a victim.

steelwall
11-17-2008, 06:38 PM
Yeah...But just think of the smoke screen you could put up to make a hasty exit. :laughing:

Thats right.:laughing: As well as the scare factor when you shoot them (especially at night) not only are they loud as hell, but about a foot and a half flame leaves the barrel.

SCSTILLER
11-18-2008, 08:44 AM
I spent a few years in a shady little place in Indiana you might have heard of. Does Gary ring a bell? Anyways, a detective we met there told us that everyone in Gary should own a 12 gauge. He said you don't even have to shoot it. When a burglar is in a quiet house and hears that tell tale pump sound, he will shit his pants while running out of the house, never to return :chuckle:


That is the reason that I have one where I sleep! I know if I was a burglar and I heard that, I would make Usain Bolt look slow.

On the bumper sticker thing, I saw one the other day also that read:

"My gun is responsible for as many murders as my pencil is for misspelled words"

you have to think about it, but it is true!

RoethlisBURGHer
11-19-2008, 05:38 AM
I spent a few years in a shady little place in Indiana you might have heard of. Does Gary ring a bell? Anyways, a detective we met there told us that everyone in Gary should own a 12 gauge. He said you don't even have to shoot it. When a burglar is in a quiet house and hears that tell tale pump sound, he will shit his pants while running out of the house, never to return :chuckle:

I know that place. When I helped a friend move there, a cop told me if my car wasn't gone by midnight it wouldn't make back to Ohio without breaking down.

My Grandpa's shotgun helped me out a few weeks ago. There had been someone sneaking through backyards in my neighborhood. I was the only one home (Grandparents were camping), and I turned on the back porch light to take the trash out and this guy was standing on my back deck wearing all black. I ran to the bedroom and grabbed the dual barrel pump action 12 gauge. When he heard the pump and then saw two barrels pointed at him, he took off.

Dino 6 Rings
11-19-2008, 10:36 AM
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Bottom Line.

Right to defend myself and family from any illegal agression. I choose to own and never need, then to need and not own.

stlrtruck
11-19-2008, 10:53 AM
[I][B]I choose to own and never need, then to need and not own.

And with the state of affairs lately, I find myself pondering, "What if I'm in need?" Because I don't own (yet!).

Dino 6 Rings
11-19-2008, 12:25 PM
And with the state of affairs lately, I find myself pondering, "What if I'm in need?" Because I don't own (yet!).

The bad guys call you victim. The government would call you a subject.

tony hipchest
11-19-2008, 12:59 PM
never trust a guy named after 2 penises, i.e. Dick Peters, Jimmy Johnson, Wang Dingaling etc...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081119/ap_on_re_us/girl_shot;_ylt=Aqqx1JE2JezJ6hhDF0phbOfLLJ94

MARYSVILLE, Wash. – A father arrested after his 6-year-old daughter was fatally shot in their Washington state home allegedly told authorities he had been drinking double shots of vodka while cleaning his guns.

Court papers say Richard Peters told detectives he had asked his daughter, Stormy, to bring him the .45-caliber handgun Sunday. He said he must have pulled the trigger, and the girl fell to the floor. She was pronounced dead Monday.

Bail for Peters, 42, was set Monday at $250,000. He has been arrested for investigation of first-degree manslaughter.

His attorney, Annika Carlsten, requested that Peters be released from jail, The Herald newspaper of Everett reported. She argued that Peters isn't a flight risk, or a danger to himself or the community.

"It's obviously a tragedy for all involved and my primary concern is for my client and his family," Carlsten told The Associated Press on Tuesday night, declining to discuss any specifics.

The Snohomish County sheriff's office said two other children were removed from the home by Child Protective Services.

Leftoverhard
11-19-2008, 01:13 PM
WESTFIELD - An 8-year-old boy who accidentally shot himself to death Sunday had his father's permission to participate in a machine gun shoot at the Westfield Sportsman's Club.

Christopher Bizilj, of Ashford, Conn., was firing a 9 mm Micro UZI machine gun at a pumpkin around 2 p.m. when he lost control of the automatic combat-type weapon and shot himself once in the head.

He died at Baystate Medical Center in Springfield.

"I watched several other children and adults use it. It's a small weapon, and Christopher was comfortable with guns," he said. "There were larger machine guns with much more recoil, and we avoided those."
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/10/westfield_police_release_name.html

I have a hard time understanding this. Comfortable with guns? 8 year olds are barely comfortable using the bathroom properly. Why is this ok? Why is it ok to put an uzi in an 8 year olds' hands? Why does anyone need this type of weapon? Why not personal nuclear weapons? Why not give the kid a nice cluster bomb for his birthday?

http://blog.masslive.com/breakingnews/2008/10/large_UZIbox1028.jpg

tony hipchest
11-19-2008, 01:18 PM
"cluster bomb" :toofunny:

personally, i would LOVE to fire and own an UZI. theyre just too damn expensive.

but yeah, i wouldnt feel comfortable with any 8 year old shooting anything bigger than a .22 (especially if its fully auto).

MACH1
11-19-2008, 01:47 PM
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/10/westfield_police_release_name.html

I have a hard time understanding this. Comfortable with guns? 8 year olds are barely comfortable using the bathroom properly. Why is this ok? Why is it ok to put an uzi in an 8 year olds' hands? Why does anyone need this type of weapon? Why not personal nuclear weapons? Why not give the kid a nice cluster bomb for his birthday?



It was OK because he had his fathers permission. Although tragic, accidents happen.

As far as the six year old girl goes. Another tragedy, Its not the guns fault. Its the dumb ass that keeps a LOADED 45. in the house or even .45 where a child can get to it.

devilsdancefloor
11-19-2008, 02:16 PM
The problem is this dumb ass people who have little respect for human life. And today no one is teaching their kids about gun safety i have no problem with keeping my gun cabinet unlocked becuase i have a understanding with my children THE GUNS ARE NOT TOYS. i take them with me a day with dad to show them what a 357, 223 or any of the other guns i own does to a target . if more folks taught gun safety this would nt happen as often. And the Uzi is the same hell even a cluster bomb if ya teach to respect and to respect what happens when you use it stupid shiat doesnt happen.

stlrtruck
11-19-2008, 03:03 PM
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/10/westfield_police_release_name.html

I have a hard time understanding this. Comfortable with guns? 8 year olds are barely comfortable using the bathroom properly. Why is this ok? Why is it ok to put an uzi in an 8 year olds' hands? Why does anyone need this type of weapon? Why not personal nuclear weapons? Why not give the kid a nice cluster bomb for his birthday?


Where I come from, kids are hunting by the time they are 8. They've taken hunting safety courses by the time they're 6 and most have been out hunting even before getting their license. It's almost a rite of passage for some families. And yes, as mentioned, it's a tragedy but I do think that even at 8 his father should have been by his side with using such a weapon.

stlrtruck
11-19-2008, 03:05 PM
The problem is this dumb ass people who have little respect for human life. And today no one is teaching their kids about gun safety i have no problem with keeping my gun cabinet unlocked becuase i have a understanding with my children THE GUNS ARE NOT TOYS. i take them with me a day with dad to show them what a 357, 223 or any of the other guns i own does to a target . if more folks taught gun safety this would nt happen as often. And the Uzi is the same hell even a cluster bomb if ya teach to respect and to respect what happens when you use it stupid shiat doesnt happen.

Can't argue with that. My uncles use to take me to an empty field and we'd set up empty oil cans and they would let me take aim and fire away but when it was time to set the cans up again, the guns got put on safety, put on the ground and we all walked to put the cans back up.

tony hipchest
11-19-2008, 03:13 PM
an 8 year old would need forearms like popeye to handle a fully auto 9 mil UZI.

its gonna rise and take off on him like a rocket.

dumb move.

Preacher
11-19-2008, 03:50 PM
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/10/westfield_police_release_name.html

I have a hard time understanding this. Comfortable with guns? 8 year olds are barely comfortable using the bathroom properly. Why is this ok? Why is it ok to put an uzi in an 8 year olds' hands? Why does anyone need this type of weapon? Why not personal nuclear weapons? Why not give the kid a nice cluster bomb for his birthday?

http://blog.masslive.com/breakingnews/2008/10/large_UZIbox1028.jpg

*** Tangent Alert***

Very interesting this is about the Uzi... an Israeli gun...

Do you know that the Israeli military carries thier guns pretty much everywhere they go in Israel? There are reports that when you are on a bus, you have to be careful not to step on the guns and rifles that citizens (even non-military) carry, which are laying in the aisle?

Yeah, I am not sure about an 8 year old firing an automatic weapon. Furthermore, fully auto is pretty much a waste of bullets. However, having and owning guns, even fully auto, does not, in ANY WAY increase crime. Israel has a VERY low crime rate, partly due to the Shai Dromi law

*** Tangent Alert*** off.

beSteelmyheart
11-19-2008, 06:58 PM
Where I come from, kids are hunting by the time they are 8. They've taken hunting safety courses by the time they're 6 and most have been out hunting even before getting their license. It's almost a rite of passage for some families. And yes, as mentioned, it's a tragedy but I do think that even at 8 his father should have been by his side with using such a weapon.

I still keep in touch with my high school best friend that still lives in the area where we grew up(Vandergrift, PA, a little bit NE of the Burgh)& she & her husband are raising their 2 girls the same way. When we flew up last year they were telling us about how the youngest one "got her first buck" . They are good people raising good kids & it's better to raise kids to be knowledgeable & respectful about guns, they would be less likely to be hot headed & stupid in the long run.

tony hipchest
11-19-2008, 08:38 PM
im 100% all for the right to bear arms but i wonder where this 8 year old got the gun (this has been a pretty big story the past few days)-

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/19/national/main4615989.shtml

(CBS/AP) An 8-year-old boy accused of killing his father and another man is due in court Wednesday a day after prosecutors released a police interview with the boy in which he admits to firing at least two shots at each man.

The Arizona boy said that he did not fire the first shots at the men but later shot them so they wouldn't suffer.

The boy gives conflicting accounts of the shootings during an hourlong video of his interview with authorities in St. Johns, but the video ends with him admitting to pulling the trigger. He then buries his head in his jacket.

"I'm going to go to juvie," the boy says after an officer asks what he's thinking.

Preacher
11-19-2008, 08:39 PM
im 100% all for the right to bear arms but i wonder where this 8 year old got the gun (this has been a pretty big story the past few days)-

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/19/national/main4615989.shtml

Wow.

That is just sad.

Polamalu Princess
11-19-2008, 09:19 PM
________________________________________
I am a lady that has a gun by my side 24/7. It is my right as a US citizen. I have had a gun by my bed, in my purse or on my waist for 15 years and I applaud those that choose to use caution, care and training to defend their Rights.

I get so upset when something goes wrong and the innocent die for no reason. Have a gun be responsible and know how to use it and keep your loved ones safe.

Leftoverhard
11-19-2008, 09:29 PM
The problem with 8 year olds using weapons - especially firearms - is that their brains aren't fully formed. They aren't fully formed until you hit your early 20's. The part of the brain that regulates judgement skills and decision making. One of the reasons 8 year olds aren't allowed to drink alcohol.
Why are so many teen drivers prone to vehical related deaths? Because judgement skills, critical thinking and decision making are lacking.

TheWarDen86
11-19-2008, 09:48 PM
The problem with 8 year olds using weapons - especially firearms - is that their brains aren't fully formed. They aren't fully formed until you hit your early 20's. The part of the brain that regulates judgement skills and decision making. One of the reasons 8 year olds aren't allowed to drink alcohol.
Why are so many teen drivers prone to vehical related deaths? Because judgement skills, critical thinking and decision making are lacking.

There was a story out of Northern NJ a couple months ago about a 10 or 11 year old who fired a gun in a school janitorial closet. No one was hurt. He found it on the way to school that morning and was showing it off to a friend. This is New Jersey we're talking about. The kids here (and 90% of the adults) know jack shit about guns (which tends to lead to a negative opinion of them).

Now you take that same kid and raise him in say the South or even in many parts of the mid-west, etc. and the outcome is entirely different. Why do you think that is? It has nothing to do with the development of the brain. It has to do with the fact they he'll have seen one before. He was taught about them (how to handle it, safety and probably that he's not allowed to screw with it unless he's under adult supervision, and on and on). That kid takes it to an adult and/or an authority.


What happened to this child with the UZI is tragic and was completely avoidable. Tony pointed out the main reason why; Development of the muscles and an inability to handle an automatic weapon. That was a clear oversight/ gross negligence on his Dads part. No I would not let my 8 year old fire an UZI. However, there's nothing wrong with introducing firearms via firearms safety to an 8 y/o.

MACH1
11-19-2008, 10:12 PM
The problem with 8 year olds using weapons - especially firearms - is that their brains aren't fully formed. They aren't fully formed until you hit your early 20's. The part of the brain that regulates judgement skills and decision making. One of the reasons 8 year olds aren't allowed to drink alcohol.
Why are so many teen drivers prone to vehical related deaths? Because judgement skills, critical thinking and decision making are lacking.

Yet you must ask yourself, are you smarter than a fifth grader. :chuckle:

tony hipchest
11-19-2008, 10:20 PM
What happened to this child with the UZI is tragic and was completely avoidable. Tony pointed out the main reason why; Development of the muscles and an inability to handle an automatic weapon. That was a clear oversight/ gross negligence on his Dads part. No I would not let my 8 year old fire an UZI. However, there's nothing wrong with introducing firearms via firearms safety to an 8 y/o.not to totally speak on behalf of leftoverhard, but i think his point is an 8 year old may thin a gun in the house is a reasonable solution to a problem (perhaps dad punished him for getting bad grades in school).

i think the point is, now lawmakers are struggling wether to try him as an adult. early reports i read was that the kid reloaded in order to ensure is dad (victims) were dead.

i think i was 8 when i was 1st taught to shoot (shot the styrofoam cup from about 20 yds away with my first ever pull of the trigger) but that was with a .22 rifle. i can remember my shoulder being sore for a few days the 1st time i shot a 30-30 and 12 guage at the age of 9 and 10 (respectively).

its not something a kid can do over and over. a kid has no business with an uzi.

im glad you mentioned that this tragedy was completely avoidable WarDen. anyone go through an OSHA training/seminar and you will learn that almost all "accidents" are preventable and due to negligence.

GutterflowerSteel
11-19-2008, 10:20 PM
However, there's nothing wrong with introducing firearms via firearms safety to an 8 y/o.

I find that most people who are anti guns are that way due to lack of knowledge and the fact that they've never handled one before. Therefore, they're afraid of them. Basic firearms safety should be taught to kids in school. My dad taught us when I was 12 - my little brother was 8 years old, and he and our sister and I all learned together. And hey - now my brother is a countersniper on the state police SWAT team :thumbsup:

An 8 year old has no business handling a machine gun though.

Leftoverhard
11-19-2008, 11:25 PM
not to totally speak on behalf of leftoverhard, but i think his point is an 8 year old may think a gun in the house is a reasonable solution to a problem (perhaps dad punished him for getting bad grades in school).

Exactly what I meant.

I find that most people who are anti guns are that way due to lack of knowledge and the fact that they've never handled one before. Therefore, they're afraid of them.

I'm not anti-gun; Weaponry of all kinds are part of my daily life and I have a healthy respect for them - I learned gun safety and to shoot a .22 when I was 10 - but I think there's a big difference between certain weapons (specifically firearms) existing and being available to the public. I'm opposed to children being allowed to shoot automatic weapons. I'm not a fan of firearms as home self defense.
I've said this before - the 2nd ammendment says "the right to bear arms." What does that mean? Arms can be anything from kitchen knifes to blasting caps to nuclear warheads. 2 of those are not available to Joe six-pack the plumber. I know that regulation can be a slippery slope but I don't think firearms that are made to kill people in large numbers should be available to the public. Not because they're neccesarily more dangerous but because they generally get used for their intended purpose. People don't shoot deer with uzis (although I'm sure it happens if rarely). You can shoot people with a .22 rifle if you must.

MACH1
11-20-2008, 12:13 AM
Exactly what I meant.



I'm not anti-gun; Weaponry of all kinds are part of my daily life and I have a healthy respect for them - I learned gun safety and to shoot a .22 when I was 10 - but I think there's a big difference between certain weapons (specifically firearms) existing and being available to the public. I'm opposed to children being allowed to shoot automatic weapons. I'm not a fan of firearms as home self defense.
I've said this before - the 2nd ammendment says "the right to bear arms." What does that mean? Arms can be anything from kitchen knifes to blasting caps to nuclear warheads. 2 of those are not available to Joe six-pack the plumber. I know that regulation can be a slippery slope but I don't think firearms that are made to kill people in large numbers should be available to the public. Not because they're neccesarily more dangerous but because they generally get used for their intended purpose. People don't shoot deer with uzis (although I'm sure it happens if rarely). You can shoot people with a .22 rifle if you must.

The right to bear arms means firearms, not nukes. Seeing there were no such things back in 1776. Just a guess.:noidea:

Yes, you could shoot people with a .22 but you could also shoot people with a BB gun, rubber band gun, wrist rocket, pea shooter, potato gun :chuckle: bow & arrow and so on. Doesn't mean they have to be banned or regulated. Last time I checked Uzi's (fully auto) were already banned and I'm pretty sure nukes and cluster bombs are to. Would that make the .22 the gateway gun. In the proper hands ANY gun could kill a large amount of people. You can use your base ball bat to defend your house and family, That's your choice. My choice is a S&W .50 Cal.

A little education could go a long way when it come's to firearms. I've been shooting and (or) hunting since the ripe old age of 7. I was taught nothing but to have respect, responsibility and safety when handling a firearm from day one. And my son is learning the same.

Preacher
11-20-2008, 12:24 AM
Exactly what I meant.



I'm not anti-gun; Weaponry of all kinds are part of my daily life and I have a healthy respect for them - I learned gun safety and to shoot a .22 when I was 10 - but I think there's a big difference between certain weapons (specifically firearms) existing and being available to the public. I'm opposed to children being allowed to shoot automatic weapons. I'm not a fan of firearms as home self defense.
I've said this before - the 2nd ammendment says "the right to bear arms." What does that mean? Arms can be anything from kitchen knifes to blasting caps to nuclear warheads. 2 of those are not available to Joe six-pack the plumber. I know that regulation can be a slippery slope but I don't think firearms that are made to kill people in large numbers should be available to the public. Not because they're neccesarily more dangerous but because they generally get used for their intended purpose. People don't shoot deer with uzis (although I'm sure it happens if rarely). You can shoot people with a .22 rifle if you must.

Actually,

Right to bear arms, in the context of the 1700's, means guns. Period.

Tony, in your scenario, shotguns should be banned as well, because with a good spread, you can take out a number of people with a couple shots. Furthermore, all you have to do is fabricate a duckbill, and you increase the capacity to kill.

I am not arguing for a fully automatic in every house. However, I am not sure that fully automatics in people's homes will increase crime. Accidents? that is a different story. Then again, a kid that is going to pick up gun, is going to pick up a gun.

tony hipchest
11-20-2008, 12:33 AM
The right to bear arms means firearms, not nukes. Seeing there were no such things back in 1776. Just a guess.:noidea:

.i think you hit on a good point. there were no such things as machine guns, desert eagles, or fully auto (let alone semi-auto) back in 1776.

i mean even gatling guns werent available to the public when they were 1st introduced, were they?

MACH1
11-20-2008, 12:37 AM
i think you hit on a good point. there were no such things as machine guns, desert eagles, or fully auto (let alone semi-auto) back in 1776.

i mean even gatling guns werent available to the public, were they?

I don't think so.:noidea: Just the Outlaws that stole themselves one to use on law abiding citizens. :chuckle:

tony hipchest
11-20-2008, 12:57 AM
Actually,

Right to bear arms, in the context of the 1700's, means guns. Period.

I am not arguing for a fully automatic in every house. However, I am not sure that fully automatics in people's homes will increase crime. Accidents? that is a different story. Then again, a kid that is going to pick up gun, is going to pick up a gun.

it means the guns of the times. period.

i love this sort of "blame the victimology" as it is some of the easiest arguments to defeat....

"accidents" are preventable. no kid will be "picking up" a gun in ANY household im in charge of.

im all for the right for qualified citizens to be allowed to own fully automatic weaponry, im just curious which direction you are taking this discussion in, cause it sounds like you are all for laying an m-16 next to a bottle and allowing a 2 year old to decide which one it will "pick up". :hunch:

Preacher
11-20-2008, 01:20 AM
it means the guns of the times. period.

i love this sort of "blame the victimology" as it is some of the easiest arguments to defeat....

"accidents" are preventable. no kid will be "picking up" a gun in ANY household im in charge of.

im all for the right for qualified citizens to be allowed to own fully automatic weaponry, im just curious which direction you are taking this discussion in, cause it sounds like you are all for laying an m-16 next to a bottle and allowing a 2 year old to decide which one it will "pick up". :hunch:

Now that was a real good try tony!

The context of the constitution was guns of the times, yes. However, the law as applied today is what? Guns. Not knives, not bombs, guns.

Blaming the victim? Huh? nope. I am only saying that a semi automatic AK-47 looks EXACTLY like a fully automatic Ak-47. a semi-automatic M-16 looks exactly like a fully automatic M 16. so the fact that it is fully automatic plays no part in a kid picking up the gun.

By the way...

Rifling wasn't normally used until the 1800's,

cartridges weren't around until the 1800's either.

which puts most rifles and ALL rounds in the same category of fully automatic weapons... in your scenario.


BTW, I LOVE how you skip over parts of a post that won't let you get a dig in...

I am not arguing for a fully automatic in every house