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Steelerfreak58
11-16-2008, 04:49 PM
two key words that Phil Simms has utilized during the game to explain the Steelers offensive game play and plan and he couldn't be more right. Watching the offense has just become an exercise in pain and anguish for Steelers fans.

plenewken
11-16-2008, 04:52 PM
If it was not for a terrific effort from the Defense, the Steelers would have 0pts at half-time.
Will Arians finally realize that sending MM in the middle ain't gonna work. That's the 3rd time in a row that the offense is uncapable of scoring a TD from the 1yd line. Moore and Parker are NOT Brandon Jacobs.
<sigh>

plenewken
11-16-2008, 04:55 PM
two key words that Phil Simms has utilized during the game to explain the Steelers offensive game play and plan and he couldn't be more right. Watching the offense has just become an exercise in pain and anguish for Steelers fans.

Yeah, pretty much as "enjoyable" as having a root canal .........................

Rick5895
11-16-2008, 04:57 PM
Yes it is pain and anguish, lol,but the play selection is baffling, I know they need to execute, but 2nd and goal from the 4 and empty the backfield (no play action threat) stuns me, and they continue to do that (all season). 4th and goal from the 1 and motion out the FB and run with Moore? Where the hell was Parker and to be honest that is where play action DOES work. I've said it before on here Arians has to go and Tomlins brain cramp and trying a 53 yard field goal at the start of the game made no sense. The officials haven't helped but of course, they STILL HAVE TO EXECUTE BETTER!!

Steelerfreak58
11-16-2008, 04:58 PM
The other thing that is killing me is there have been at least 3 occasions the first half where the offense got lucky and didn't get penalized for delay of game. They have an extremely slow and lazy approach to getting the ball off and its been going on all season.

The_WARDen
11-16-2008, 06:20 PM
given the talent on that offense, it's a joke that they are that bad.

Steelerfreak58
11-16-2008, 06:24 PM
Well at least there was one drive of what we know they are capable of.

steelpride12
11-16-2008, 06:30 PM
Blah Blah Blah hey it looks to me Ben had over 300 Passing yards and a completion percentage of over 80.
Parker had close 100 yards on the ground.

Sure there we No TD, but that was due to penalties and bad field position. Get rid of those two things and at LEAST 2 TD's would have been scored by the Steeler defense.

It was Ben and the entire offense that led them to the game winning field goal.

Preacher
11-16-2008, 06:31 PM
this was a well called game, and well executed.

The fact is, our offense has had to overcome a lot of things.

They are just now starting to get on track, and Arians with them.

Give it a rest.

X-Terminator
11-16-2008, 06:35 PM
I thought the offense played great today - Ben 31-41, 308 yards, Willie 22-104, dominated the TOP...hell, they pretty much dominated the game. But it was the penalties that did them in - 13 penalties is unacceptable, and several of them killed big plays and cost them a TD.

19ward86
11-16-2008, 06:39 PM
Offense is ugly but got the job done.

devilsdancefloor
11-16-2008, 07:25 PM
a win is a win if it is by 1 pt or a 100 i will take it! and plus at least a week of no trolls :dancing:

SteelCityMan786
11-16-2008, 07:39 PM
a win is a win if it is by 1 pt or a 100 i will take it! and plus at least a week of no trolls :dancing:

The idiot trolls at least.

steelmatic1906
11-16-2008, 07:52 PM
I thought the offense played great today - Ben 31-41, 308 yards, Willie 22-104, dominated the TOP...hell, they pretty much dominated the game. But it was the penalties that did them in - 13 penalties is unacceptable, and several of them killed big plays and cost them a TD.

whats up X?

I agree with the body guard. the offense looked good. im a little concerned with the short yardage run game but overall it was good. Just got killed by penalties

missedgehead
11-16-2008, 08:09 PM
While I think the offense played somewhat ok, and the penalties, did kill them....man, that defense had to be thinking>....."We did our job...would you just score?" Our drives stalled quite a bit. Ben got nice stats. That is nice, and did not throw an INT. However, we need the offense to score TDs and complete drives. We pretty much won this game because of the defense. As for the penalties, what is UP with that? The team is either 1) not very disciplined or 2) not well coached to have all these penalties. I am not complaining about the win, but the offense has to score more than 11 points if they want to do well in the playoffs, etc. They can't depend on the defense to bail them out.

Steelman16
11-16-2008, 08:11 PM
While I think the offense played somewhat ok, and the penalties, did kill them....man, that defense had to be thinking>....."We did our job...would you just score?" Our drives stalled quite a bit. Ben got nice stats. That is nice, and did not throw an INT. However, we need the offense to score TDs and complete drives. We pretty much won this game because of the defense. As for the penalties, what is UP with that? The team is either 1) not very disciplined or 2) not well coached to have all these penalties. I am not complaining about the win, but the offense has to score more than 11 points if they want to do well in the playoffs, etc. They can't depend on the defense to bail them out.

Well, reckon it ain't the playoffs quite yet...

We still have time to work out the kinks. What I saw today was a great step in the right direction. Ben was dang-tootin' sharp, Willie played like his usual self. The O-line was the usual barely adequete, but somehow just enough.

If we continue this offensive trend, we'll get pipin' hot at the right time, which will allow the D to rest just a tad before hitting the playoffs.

fansince'76
11-16-2008, 08:17 PM
Well, reckon it ain't the playoffs quite yet...

I seem to remember an eventual-SB-winning team winning a conference championship 11-6 a few years back....

I also remember another eventual-SB-winning team going two months without a TD on offense during the regular season a few years back....

Defense wins championships.

stillers4me
11-16-2008, 08:21 PM
Defense wins championships.

Yeah, baby! :drink:

Steelman16
11-16-2008, 08:21 PM
I seem to remember an eventual-SB-winning team winning a conference championship 11-6 a few years back....

I also remember another eventual-SB-winning team going two months without a TD on offense during the regular season a few years back....

Defense wins championships.

I seem to remember that team too. :toofunny:


I wasn't knocking the D. I think we could win any playoff game even with our offense how it is right now.

SunshineMan21
11-16-2008, 08:26 PM
The offense hasn't looked this good in awhile . . . the low points were bad field position, the goal-line stuff, and the massive amount of holding penalties, not any issue with Arians' play calling.

BozMan
11-16-2008, 08:31 PM
If Troy's TD on the last play would have stayed on the books (like it should have), then our D would have come close to outscoring our O (8-9).

The offense has to get better in goal-line and red zone situations. Hopefully Gary Russell and a healthy Parker will improve our numbers in those situations down the stretch.

Blonde Bomber
11-16-2008, 09:31 PM
this was a well called game, and well executed.

The fact is, our offense has had to overcome a lot of things.

They are just now starting to get on track, and Arians with them.

Give it a rest.

Why do the top posters on this site think that it is their place to just shut everyone up on a topic that they do not feel like talking about????? joke, how about you give it a rest? Everyone that has followed the Steelers already knows the history of the team, but let's not not talk about our offense not being able to score because you want to talk about something else????? If this is meant to be a true Steelers forum, why are people not supposed to talk about the team, no matter what they feel like saying, whether you, HTG, revs or whoever does not agree?

I also think the Steelers have major problems, mostly at OC, but also at OL, and definitely at QB. Ben did overall good today, but he has been having problems finishing drives(since nobody should say it is Arians) and the sacks are all not the OL's fault..he clearly is having problems making decisions even if it is just throwing the damn ball away.

X-Terminator
11-16-2008, 09:56 PM
Why do the top posters on this site think that it is their place to just shut everyone up on a topic that they do not feel like talking about????? joke, how about you give it a rest? Everyone that has followed the Steelers already knows the history of the team, but let's not not talk about our offense not being able to score because you want to talk about something else????? If this is meant to be a true Steelers forum, why are people not supposed to talk about the team, no matter what they feel like saying, whether you, HTG, revs or whoever does not agree?

I also think the Steelers have major problems, mostly at OC, but also at OL, and definitely at QB. Ben did overall good today, but he has been having problems finishing drives(since nobody should say it is Arians) and the sacks are all not the OL's fault..he clearly is having problems making decisions even if it is just throwing the damn ball away.

You know why? Because we have to see the same old crap over...and over...and over...and over again. After a while you just get tired of seeing it. Bruce Arians is not the world's best OC. We know that already! It doesn' t need to be brought up for the 10 millionth time!

I thought Ben's decision making was pretty damn good today, but of course we have those who think it should be perfect on every play or else it isn't a good day. He did an excellent job of taking what the defense gave him, hitting the checkdowns and not being careless with the football. If anything killed a lot of those drives that Ben didn't finish, it was all of the penalties that negated positive plays. Even though the officiating sucked ass, 13 penalties is what it is, and that is unacceptable.

Rek
11-16-2008, 10:30 PM
Totally Agree. Ben had an extremely solid game, but because he didn't throw a touchdown or complete a long bomb, everybody still gets on his case. Everyone is expecting Ben to always be the number 1 or 2 QB in the league, with 100+ rating and leading with a gabillion touchdowns, but truth is, he's not that type of quarterback. He is the offensive leader and gets the job done. Give it a rest with all the Bruce & Ben bashing.

Blonde Bomber
11-17-2008, 05:42 AM
You know why? Because we have to see the same old crap over...and over...and over...and over again. After a while you just get tired of seeing it. Bruce Arians is not the world's best OC. We know that already! It doesn' t need to be brought up for the 10 millionth time!

I thought Ben's decision making was pretty damn good today, but of course we have those who think it should be perfect on every play or else it isn't a good day. He did an excellent job of taking what the defense gave him, hitting the checkdowns and not being careless with the football. If anything killed a lot of those drives that Ben didn't finish, it was all of the penalties that negated positive plays. Even though the officiating sucked ass, 13 penalties is what it is, and that is unacceptable.

OK, 10 million times would be a lot, although I doubt it is that many times :chuckle: . The just shut up about it way of handling it doesn't seem like a fair way to go about it though. Maybe the people that have seen it that many times, and don't want to talk about it should skip to the next post, or maybe a Bruce sticky thread would let newcomers, and people that DO want to talk about it have a place to do it.

I for one did not say that he did not have a good day. He is however having decision problems in my opinion. I do not expect him to be perfect, but 4 sacks is still a lot. At least two of the sacks, Ben stepped up and did not seem to know what to do next. Granted maybe the coverage was good, but I have seen better quarterbacks than him throw it over the receivers head that was nearest the sideline. I mean he knows the status of our OL before he steps onto the field, so there are only going to be a few split seconds per game to decide what he is going to do.

I would really like to know what ever happened to Ben rolling right!? But I guess I will wait for the above mentioned sticky to talk about that.

Steelers & I
11-17-2008, 05:55 AM
OK, 10 million times would be a lot, although I doubt it is that many times :chuckle: . The just shut up about it way of handling it doesn't seem like a fair way to go about it though. Maybe the people that have seen it that many times, and don't want to talk about it should skip to the next post, or maybe a Bruce sticky thread would let newcomers, and people that DO want to talk about it have a place to do it.

I for one did not say that he did not have a good day. He is however having decision problems in my opinion. I do not expect him to be perfect, but 4 sacks is still a lot. At least two of the sacks, Ben stepped up and did not seem to know what to do next. Granted maybe the coverage was good, but I have seen better quarterbacks than him throw it over the receivers head that was nearest the sideline. I mean he knows the status of our OL before he steps onto the field, so there are only going to be a few split seconds per game to decide what he is going to do.

I would really like to know what ever happened to Ben rolling right!? But I guess I will wait for the above mentioned sticky to talk about that.

Just shut up already! Nah man, I'm just kidding, I agree with both of your posts. I was beginning to get the same feeling myself. I also agree that if members don't want to hear about Arians then they should just ignore it and move on to the next thread.

I for one have enjoyed bashing Arians since I've joined the site but I promised to lay off of him this week. I did see some progress with the offensive game plan yesterday so hopefully it was the beginning of a new trend with the OC. Did you notice more use of the I-Formation yesterday? The use of a blocking FB? Running on 3rd and short rather than passing from a 4 WR set? Shorter WR routes? Although these are merely baby steps, I hope that Arians continues in that direction.

Yesterdays game plan was definitely better than the "Hey, go deep" mentality that we've seen for most of the season.

Michael Keller
11-17-2008, 06:58 AM
Yes for the first time yesterday I also did see some changes ,baby steps, as they may be. ) . I liked "taking what the defense gives you" and most of all they stayed with the short, intermediate passing game all the way. They did not get cute and tricky.
Like last years play off against Jacksonvile.
Personally their play gave me a sense of confidence. Penalties made it a bit harder. LOL

I want to believe the Steelers are working hard and smart on their entire offense. I give MT credit for making Ben practice.

Now work on an unpredictable , creative goal line offense. With Ben's skills and two superb tight ends (when Miller comes back) and above average wide outs there is plenty they can do besides pound it in against 7 defenders lined up on our left side just waiting to stop our running back . We do not have a Bettis but we have a very talented QB . Many of us on this forum could design 6 or more excellent plays that work on the goal line or any where on the field ion short yardage situation. The truth is these plays are in the Steelers playbook now. Use them.

Botoom line it was a good victory against a team that desperately needed to win .

Quite frankly with this defense and an offense that can improve the Steelers have as good a chance to go all the way as any team including the Titans and the Gaints. The Steelers have more upside (offense) than any team in the hunt. I am starting to get that feeling. No I still do not like Arians but like some one said he is the OC for now . I think Ben and the Steelers offense took a big step yesterday. They played to win the game in the manner that Chuck Noll used to describe..

" Whatever it takes"

xfl2001fan
11-17-2008, 07:06 AM
If Troy's TD on the last play would have stayed on the books (like it should have), then our D would have come close to outscoring our O (8-9).

The offense has to get better in goal-line and red zone situations. Hopefully Gary Russell and a healthy Parker will improve our numbers in those situations down the stretch.

Why should that TD have stood? Replays showed a forward pass...which means the ball is dead on the spot. So, while it was a great play by Troy...the call was right and the NFL now has it's first ever 10-11 game.

X-Terminator
11-17-2008, 07:18 AM
Why should that TD have stood? Replays showed a forward pass...which means the ball is dead on the spot. So, while it was a great play by Troy...the call was right and the NFL now has it's first ever 10-11 game.

The referees themselves said the call was incorrect, and the TD should have counted because even though there was an illegal forward pass, it never hit the ground and the player was not down by contact, and play should have been allowed to continue.

SCSTILLER
11-17-2008, 07:22 AM
Why should that TD have stood? Replays showed a forward pass...which means the ball is dead on the spot. So, while it was a great play by Troy...the call was right and the NFL now has it's first ever 10-11 game.

I read a little about this play. The forward lateral/pass would have killed the play if the ball hit the ground, which it didn't. The one that Troy tipped was a backwards lateral that means the ball is in play. I think it was a blown call if what I read about the play was true. Either way, we won and I am happy!

Just one thing, the 4th and goal run play was a horrible call. We knew last week we weren't getting a push on, IMO, a worse rushing defense, and we try to run the same play behind Kemeotu (sp). I was not happy with that call, should have been a play action to Spaeth or have Willie in the game to get the edge. Besides that, the fargin penalties killed us!

SCSTILLER
11-17-2008, 07:23 AM
The referees themselves said the call was incorrect, and the TD should have counted because even though there was an illegal forward pass, it never hit the ground and the player was not down by contact, and play should have been allowed to continue.

Beat me to it!

xfl2001fan
11-17-2008, 07:23 AM
The referees themselves said the call was incorrect, and the TD should have counted because even though there was an illegal forward pass, it never hit the ground and the player was not down by contact, and play should have been allowed to continue.

You don't continue the play on an illegal forward pass. What if that illegal forward pass had resulted in an offensive TD? Do you let the play continue?

X-Terminator
11-17-2008, 07:27 AM
You don't continue the play on an illegal forward pass. What if that illegal forward pass had resulted in an offensive TD? Do you let the play continue?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-chargers-steelers-confusingcall&prov=ap&type=lgns

Referee says officials errantly voided Steelers TD
By ALAN ROBINSON, AP Sports Writer
40 minutes ago

PITTSBURGH (AP)—The first 11-10 game in NFL history shouldn’t have ended that way, referee Scott Green said after a last-minute touchdown was errantly taken away from the Pittsburgh Steelers on Sunday.

The officiating mistake didn’t affect the outcome since the Steelers still would have won, but the touchdown would have changed the score to 17-10—or, more likely, 18-10, since the teams were lined up for an extra-point try that was never attempted.

On first-and-10 from San Diego’s 21 with 5 seconds remaining, Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers threw a short pass to LaDainian Tomlinson over the middle for 3 yards. Tomlinson turned and made a handoff-type lateral to wide receiver Chris Chambers, who attempted to pitch the ball to a teammate only to have safety Troy Polamalu scoop it up and score from the 12.

Both teams left the field on what looked to be a game-ending play, but were called back by the officials for the extra-point attempt. At that point, the replay official called for a review.

After watching the play, Green initially announced the ruling on the field was upheld and the touchdown counted. But the officiating crew huddled again before the extra-point attempt and changed the call, deciding that an illegal forward pass should have ended the play.

Green, in a postgame interview with a pool reporter, said that call was errant—even though his explanation for the confusion was almost as confusing as the play itself.

“We should have let the play go through in the end, yes,” Green said. “It was misinterpreted that instead of killing the play, we should have let the play go through.”

Green said the confusion occurred because there was a misunderstanding about which lateral was in question.

“The first pass was the one that was illegal, but it only kills the play if it hits the ground,” Green said. “That was incorrect to have killed it at that point. The ruling should have let the play go on. That’s just the way that it played out. We believe the second pass was legal.”

Green was asked why, since the ball didn’t hit the ground during any of the tossing, the officials decided after huddling that the play should have ended.

“We didn’t kill it on the field,” Green said. “After (the) discussion we decided … there was some confusion over which pass we were talking about and it was decided that it was the second pass that was illegal that did hit the ground and therefore we killed the play there.”

However, the officials realized afterward they erred.

“I know,” Green said. “The rule was misinterpreted.”

Asked about the officiating—the Steelers drew 115 yards in penalties to the Chargers’ 5—Pittsburgh coach Mike Tomlin declined to comment.

“No, I have never seen a game ended with 13-to-1 in penalties, but I am not answering questions about the officiating,” Tomlin said.

The call affected betting on the game since the Steelers were 5-point favorites and would have covered if the touchdown counted.


Any other questions?

xfl2001fan
11-17-2008, 07:29 AM
"Rule 8, Section 1, Article 1, Note 3 of the NFL Rule Book (page 49) states that 'the penalty for a forward pass beyond the line is to be enforced from the spot where the ball is released when the passer's entire body and the ball are beyond the line of scrimmage. This includes either when the passer is airborne or touching the ground.'"

X-Terminator
11-17-2008, 07:32 AM
"Rule 8, Section 1, Article 1, Note 3 of the NFL Rule Book (page 49) states that 'the penalty for a forward pass beyond the line is to be enforced from the spot where the ball is released when the passer's entire body and the ball are beyond the line of scrimmage. This includes either when the passer is airborne or touching the ground.'"

But it does NOT say that the play is to be ruled dead, only that a penalty should be assessed, which it was. The play should have been allowed to continue and Troy's TD should have counted. Had the Chargers scored, the Steelers accept the penalty for the illegal forward pass, there's a 10 second runoff and the game is over.

xfl2001fan
11-17-2008, 07:39 AM
I am trying to find a copy of the rulebook so that I can see the complete version. Having a ref say it's a good call/bad call without the actual rulebook is foolhardy. I was quoting the rules from another article.

You may be right that it doesn't stop the play instantly (like a false start would), but I don't know for sure at this time.

jjpro11
11-17-2008, 07:39 AM
it wasnt a dead ball foul, and obviously should have counted.. its like those illegal motion calls.. the offense has no chance to do anything since the play will be called back, but they let them play it out regardless. if theres a facemask, the penalties offset.. if the defense make a play, they just decline the penalty. that should have been our option sunday.

X-Terminator
11-17-2008, 08:00 AM
I am trying to find a copy of the rulebook so that I can see the complete version. Having a ref say it's a good call/bad call without the actual rulebook is foolhardy. I was quoting the rules from another article.

You may be right that it doesn't stop the play instantly (like a false start would), but I don't know for sure at this time.

A false start is a play prior to the snap, so of course play would be stopped. An illegal forward pass happens while the play is going on, like a holding call or illegal contact, and therefore play should be continued until the ball hits the ground or a player is down by contact. The referees ruled that the 2nd pass (the one that went backward and was knocked away by Troy) was illegal when it clearly was not, and since it hit the ground, the play was blown dead. The first pass (by Tomlinson to Jackson) was illegal, but since it did not hit the ground, the play should not have been stopped. So the refs clearly got it wrong, and incorrectly took away the TD.