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mesaSteeler
11-17-2008, 02:14 AM
Referee says officials errantly voided Steelers TD
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i1GZ1rpRU_OWSdhg8OHJz3-QEEpwD94GDRUG0
By ALAN ROBINSON 4 hours ago

PITTSBURGH (AP) The first 11-10 game in NFL history shouldn't have ended that way, referee Scott Green said after a last-minute touchdown was errantly taken away from the Pittsburgh Steelers on Sunday.

The officiating mistake didn't affect the outcome since the Steelers still would have won, but the touchdown would have changed the score to 17-10 or, more likely, 18-10, since the teams were lined up for an extra-point try that was never attempted.

On first-and-10 from San Diego's 21 with 5 seconds remaining, Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers threw a short pass to LaDainian Tomlinson over the middle for 3 yards. Tomlinson turned and made a handoff-type lateral to wide receiver Chris Chambers, who attempted to pitch the ball to a teammate only to have safety Troy Polamalu scoop it up and score from the 12.

Both teams left the field on what looked to be a game-ending play, but were called back by the officials for the extra-point attempt. At that point, the replay official called for a review.

After watching the play, Green initially announced the ruling on the field was upheld and the touchdown counted. But the officiating crew huddled again before the extra-point attempt and changed the call, deciding that an illegal forward pass by Rivers should've ended the play.

Green, in a postgame interview with a pool reporter, said that call was errant even though his explanation for the confusion was almost as confusing as the play itself.

"We should have let the play go through in the end, yes," Green said. "It was misinterpreted that instead of killing the play, we should have let the play go through."

Green said the confusion occurred because there was a misunderstanding about whether Rivers' pass or Tomlinson's lateral was in question.

"The first pass was the one that was illegal, but it only kills the play if it hits the ground," Green said. "That was incorrect to have killed it at that point. The ruling should have let the play go on. That's just the way that it played out. We believe the second pass (by Tomlinson) was legal."

Green was asked why, since the first pass by Rivers did not hit the ground, the officials decided after huddling that the play should have ended there.

"We didn't kill it on the field," Green said. "After (the) discussion we decided ... there was some confusion over which pass we were talking about and it was decided that it was the second pass that was illegal that did hit the ground and therefore we killed the play there."

However, the officials realized afterward they erred.

"I know," Green said. "The rule was misinterpreted."

Asked about the officiating the Steelers drew 115 yards in penalties to the Chargers' 5 Pittsburgh coach Mike Tomlin declined to comment.

"No, I have never seen a game ended with 13-to-1 in penalties, but I am not answering questions about the officiating," Tomlin said.

The call affected betting on the game since the Steelers were 5-point favorites and would have covered if the touchdown counted.

mesaSteeler
11-17-2008, 02:16 AM
Bookies Win Millions, Bettors Lose on Bad Steelers Call
WEBWIRE – Sunday, November 16, 2008
http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel_print.asp?aId=80015

An Estimated $64 Million Swing in Favor of Bookies

Las Vegas (November 16, 2008) – The Pittsburgh Steelers were 5 point favorites over the San Diego Chargers on Sunday. As time expired, the Steelers scored a touchdown to put them up by 7, with the extra point pending. Then came a video review. The official initially announced the ruling on the field was upheld and the touchdown counted. But the officiating crew huddled again and changed the call – taking the points off the board without explanation. The game was ended with Pittsburgh the 11 to 10 winner. Pittsburgh bettors lost. After the game, the official admitted that a mistake was made, and the touchdown should have counted.

An estimated 100 million dollars was wagered worldwide on the Pittsburgh/San Diego game, according to RJ Bell of Pregame.com. Approximately 66% of that money was on the Steelers; with only 34% on the Chargers.

”If the touchdown was properly upheld, Steelers bettors would have won about 32 million dollars instead of losing big. This admittedly incorrect call resulted in a 64 million dollar swing in favor of the bookies.” said RJ Bell of Pregame.com.

MEDIA NOTE: Print, radio, TV, and Internet media should feel free to quote any information above. Please attribute: RJ Bell of Pregame.com. For follow-up questions, or media appearances – email: rjbell@pregame.com

bozz723
11-17-2008, 02:17 AM
LOL. They come back from replay - say it was a touchdown - then "huddle up" and then say the touchdown doesn't count...

YEAAAAAAAAA.........................


Those refs weren't payed off or anything.

Sharkissle29
11-17-2008, 02:39 AM
That game was fixed, no doubt about it.

Preacher
11-17-2008, 03:27 AM
That game was fixed, no doubt about it.


You will to say that about our superbowl win? Cause that is what the Seahawk fans say.

Next time we win a close one, and a few calls go our way, are you willing to say the fix is in for us?

I thought not.

The refs made a mistake. Period.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
11-17-2008, 03:30 AM
Does seem a little shady how they changed their minds. They review it and call it a touchdown, then overturn it without even looking at it again? Doesn't makes sense to me.

Preacher
11-17-2008, 03:40 AM
Does seem a little shady how they changed their minds. They review it and call it a touchdown, then overturn it without even looking at it again? Doesn't makes sense to me.

makes perfect sense to me.

The called the penalty, expressed the call, one of the refs said wait a second, If A, then B. and called them back together. They changed the call and that was game.

Then they go into the lockerroom and talk about what happened and say... Oh crud.. It wasn't A, it was A1, which means C should have happened.

mesaSteeler
11-17-2008, 04:04 AM
makes perfect sense to me.

The called the penalty, expressed the call, one of the refs said wait a second, If A, then B. and called them back together. They changed the call and that was game.

Then they go into the lockerroom and talk about what happened and say... Oh crud.. It wasn't A, it was A1, which means C should have happened.

I gotta agree. I don't think it was fixed. I think it is yet another example of the refs being human and screwing it up. Of course we have to hope we don't get down the 7th stage tiebreaker which is total points scored during a season. That's the only way the this ref's screw up can hurt us.

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-17-2008, 04:37 AM
Officials err on game's final play
By Scott Brown
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Monday, November 17, 2008


Steelers fans that had a betting interest in Sunday's game against San Diego won't be happy to hear this: the referee said a touchdown that Steelers strong safety Troy Polamalu scored on the final play of the game should have counted.

With the Steelers holding an 11-10 lead, Polamalu scooped up a fumble at San Diego's 12 and rumbled into the end zone as time expired.

The Steelers, who were considered a 5-point favorite by the bookmakers, would have covered the point spread had Polamalu's touchdown stood following an offical review. But the officials reversed the call on the field and ruled the play dead at San Diego's 26 because of an illegal forward pass.

A touchdown that would have given the Steelers no less than a seven-point win was removed from the scoreboard, and the final score was 11-10.

"We should have let the play go through in the end, yes," referee Scott Green said. "The rule was misinterpreted."

The wild ending came after Jeff Reed kicked a 32-yard field goal to give the Steelers a one-point lead with 11 seconds remaining.

San Diego got the ball back on its 21 with 5 seconds left and tried a gimmick play that involved two laterals. The first one, from quarterback Philip Rivers to running back LaDainian Tomlinson, was ruled an illegal forward pass.

The officiating crew, Green said, erred by also ruling that the ball had hit the ground on the first lateral and calling the play dead. The ball did not hit the ground, Green said, therefore the play should have still been live when Polamalu picked up the second lateral and scored a touchdown.

"The ruling should have let the play go on," Green said.

At least one player did not mind that a mistake took a touchdown away from the Steelers.

"I was just like, 'Man, can we just get this over with and get in the locker room with the win,'" Steelers defensive end Brett Keisel said.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_598793.html

Galax Steeler
11-17-2008, 04:42 AM
It don't make no sense how they can change it after they went to the replay booth the decision was made and it should have stood a touchdown.
The pass interferance call in the first quarter was a crappy call also but we played through them and came out with a win.

SteelMember
11-17-2008, 09:58 AM
What a horrible call.

Instant replay is supposed to be their to take the human error element out and to esentially get the play call correct.

Neither happened. They just looked more confused. :thmbdown:

tony hipchest
11-17-2008, 11:02 AM
San Diego got the ball back on its 21 with 5 seconds left and tried a gimmick play that involved two laterals. The first one, from quarterback Philip Rivers to running back LaDainian Tomlinson, was ruled an illegal forward pass.

so an NFL ref thought a qb wasnt allowed to throw the ball forward? :huh:

he needs to be fired if hes that stupid.

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-17-2008, 11:29 AM
What a horrible call.

Instant replay is supposed to be their to take the human error element out and to esentially get the play call correct.

Neither happened. They just looked more confused. :thmbdown:

During his last "explanation"..his hands were going from his head...to his chest...to his sides ...back to his head....as he was trying desperately to think of which signal to give for the cluster he just created.:willy:

SteelMember
11-17-2008, 11:37 AM
During his last "explanation"..his hands were going from his head...to his chest...to his sides ...back to his head....as he was trying desperately to think of which signal to give for the cluster he just created.:willy:

If the Heinz field PA was playing the Macarena, that would have made more sense than what they came up with. :sofunny:

steelreserve
11-17-2008, 11:38 AM
One would think that after all this, the league would reverse it and let the touchdown count. It cost me $50, that's for sure.

rbryan
11-17-2008, 12:16 PM
I'm pretty sure the NFL could care less about how the call affected the Vegas line.

If the refs really wanted to screw us they could have easily called Santonio's forward progress stopped before he got out of bounds with no time outs thus ending the game before we could kick the winning field goal............I'd hate to see the reaction if that had happened.

Dino 6 Rings
11-17-2008, 12:19 PM
I'm still confused, is the Penalty the on Rivers for going across the line of scrimmage?

Making it an illegal foward pass. Then they messed up the call cause I think, if the ball is picked it counts and if its caught and fumbled it still counts and you decline the penalty and take the defensive results, but if its caught for a 1st down or TD for the Offense you take the penalty.

I think...

#1LambertFan
11-17-2008, 12:47 PM
You will to say that about our superbowl win? Cause that is what the Seahawk fans say.

Next time we win a close one, and a few calls go our way, are you willing to say the fix is in for us?

I thought not.

The refs made a mistake. Period.

The 2005 Super Bowl was was 21-10. That is a TD, 2 pt conversion, and a FG, just to tie it. I don't remember any bad calls. There was one TD that was questionable at best and even if that call were overturned it would have been 3rd down. 2 more chances to score. Just proves that Seahawks fans are like Patriots fans: you can beat them clean 44-0 and they'd still say their better than you, and they deserved to win but SOMETHING happened.

rbryan
11-17-2008, 12:53 PM
I have to agree. To compare yesterdays game to SB 40 is ridiculous. Sure there were a few calls in SB 40 that could have went the other way, but nothing that warranted the outcry from the Seahawks crybaby fanbase like it did.

Yesterdays officiating was as blatant an attempt to control the outcome as I have ever seen when you add that last reversal of Troy's TD. If the league isn't going to look into this then there is no integrity left in the NFL. Pointing that out doesn't put me in the same category as a Seasquawk fan.

revefsreleets
11-17-2008, 12:57 PM
If that bad call stood alone, sure, I'd see this as just a bad call.

But there were several questionable calls against the Steelers, and the Chargers weren't really penalized at all.

Sorry, not a conspiracy theorist by nature, but the fix was definitely in against us.

steelreserve
11-17-2008, 01:13 PM
I'm pretty sure the NFL could care less about how the call affected the Vegas line.

If the refs really wanted to screw us they could have easily called Santonio's forward progress stopped before he got out of bounds with no time outs thus ending the game before we could kick the winning field goal............I'd hate to see the reaction if that had happened.

I thought we still had a timeout left at that point, so basically it just would've forced us to try the field goal without taking another shot at the end zone (and we saw how that worked out).

But yeah -- the instant contact was made on that play, I thought, "Oh, man, they use any excuse to keep the clock running these days; they're definitely going to screw us here." It's a rare occurrence to see them actually recognize that the "progress" the ballcarrier is trying to make is in the direction that'll take him out of bounds, not mindlessly forward to get tackled in bounds.

rbryan
11-17-2008, 01:17 PM
That was the last play before we kicked the field goal and there were no timeouts left. We could have possibly rushed to the line and spiked the ball but it would have been awfully close.

revefsreleets
11-17-2008, 01:19 PM
Well, the refs have to make it look legit. I mean they can't be obviously in the tank for a Chargers win...

rbryan
11-17-2008, 01:23 PM
I agree that the refs usually do a much better job of making it look good. The way the game ended with the crazy TD by Troy really caught them off guard IMO, they had no choice but to show thier azz if they were going to complete thier mission of having the Chargers cover the spread.

Angina
11-17-2008, 02:29 PM
I think the refs just plain voided -- all over the Steelers!

Really, I doubt that crew was bright enough to hatch a fix for the game either way.

Angina

Steelers-Shaun
11-17-2008, 02:41 PM
The game was not fixed give me a break..... The problem is what has BEEN the problem, the ref's SUCK! .... The league should start some kind of point system for them where THEY get hit in the pocket (on a smaller scale then players) or lose their jobs. They have a point system for being a SB ref. After the games are over questionable calls are reviewed by the league and points are assessed to ref's who make blatant bad calls. X amount of points on a ref (or demerits) = X amount of pay deducted or X amount more points can be accrued before termination.

fansince'76
11-17-2008, 03:03 PM
The game was not fixed give me a break..... The problem is what has BEEN the problem, the ref's SUCK! .... The league should start some kind of point system for them where THEY get hit in the pocket (on a smaller scale then players) or lose their jobs. They have a point system for being a SB ref. After the games are over questionable calls are reviewed by the league and points are assessed to ref's who make blatant bad calls. X amount of points on a ref (or demerits) = X amount of pay deducted or X amount more points can be accrued before termination.

I agree in principle, but here's the problem with that - the current refs are a bunch of part-timers and the money they make as NFL refs is a pittance compared to the full-time salaries they pull down as corporate CEOs, bank presidents, big-shot attorneys, and the like. Fine them? They don't care. Fire them? Again, they don't care, because they're officiating games on a lark anyway. What the NFL needs is full-time officials - then and only then will those kinds of accountability measures actually mean something.

Steelers-Shaun
11-17-2008, 03:13 PM
I agree in principle, but here's the problem with that - the current refs are a bunch of part-timers and the money they make as NFL refs is a pittance compared to the full-time salaries they pull down as corporate CEOs, bank presidents, big-shot attorneys, and the like. Fine them? They don't care. Fire them? Again, they don't care, because they're officiating games on a lark anyway. What the NFL needs is full-time officials - then and only then will those kinds of accountability measures actually mean something.

Ok that makes sense...but how are they going to hire full time refs? Just pay them on the off season 2 i guess? And they would have to then make sure that they sign something that says they can't work anywhere else because once they become a big shot at another job like you just said they wont care. So send them to ref college hire them and sign em to contracts? whaddaya think?

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
11-17-2008, 03:28 PM
Ok that makes sense...but how are they going to hire full time refs? Just pay them on the off season 2 i guess? And they would have to then make sure that they sign something that says they can't work anywhere else because once they become a big shot at another job like you just said they wont care. So send them to ref college hire them and sign em to contracts? whaddaya think?

Sounds reasonable to me. I don't understand why a HUGE organization like the NFL relies on part time help to be the law on the field.

klick81
11-17-2008, 03:42 PM
You will to say that about our superbowl win? Cause that is what the Seahawk fans say.

Next time we win a close one, and a few calls go our way, are you willing to say the fix is in for us?

I thought not.

The refs made a mistake. Period.

:sofunny:

Preacher, come on buddy. I too would hate for someone to insinuate that the SB was fixed, but there is no way that you can compare the two games.

There is a huge difference between sour grapes, which is what the waaaahawk fans were doing, and the legitimate concerns some of us here have. Something very shady is going on behind closed doors.

steelreserve
11-17-2008, 04:02 PM
:sofunny:

Preacher, come on buddy. I too would hate for someone to insinuate that the SB was fixed, but there is no way that you can compare the two games.

There is a huge difference between sour grapes, which is what the waaaahawk fans were doing, and the legitimate concerns some of us here have. Something very shady is going on behind closed doors.

Yeah -- for one thing, we actually won the game.

Seems kind of weird to me that the refs blew the call at the end of the game, then admitted they blew the call, and the league didn't restore the touchdown. Since it wouldn't have affected the outcome of the game at all, you'd think they would just reinstate the score and treat it as a stat correction after the fact. They do that in NBA games all the time.

Stu Pidasso
11-17-2008, 04:19 PM
Ok that makes sense...but how are they going to hire full time refs? Just pay them on the off season 2 i guess?



That's what they do with school teachers, bus drivers, etc.

My dad was a referee, full time in the lower levels. He'd do football until the season was over, then he would do basketball, then baseball. And he was great at all of them.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
11-17-2008, 04:24 PM
That's what they do with school teachers, bus drivers, etc.

.

Look at how good our school teachers and bus drivers turned out :chuckle:

Stu Pidasso
11-17-2008, 06:02 PM
By the way, I've watched the replay like 9 times, and I don't see the illegal forward pass anywhere. They two throws after the initial pass were either sideways or backwards. Any help?

VTsteel
11-17-2008, 06:28 PM
By the way, I've watched the replay like 9 times, and I don't see the illegal forward pass anywhere. They two throws after the initial pass were either sideways or backwards. Any help?


Agreed. There was no illegal forward pass. The Refs roundly, soundly and wholly goofed. Like a bunch of bumbling idiots.

revefsreleets
11-17-2008, 06:47 PM
I'm sorry, but if you actually BELIEVE that the Steelers "committing" 14 penalties and the Chargers only committing one or two is legit, you're high. The Chargers are that disciplined? We are that undisciplined?

There's more going on here than meets the eye.

ben7
11-17-2008, 06:52 PM
I'll be honest I did care about that TD.

stillers4me
11-17-2008, 06:53 PM
Did you see Ben's face on the side as he was watching the game? He looked pissed as hell, and something tells me he was seeing things all over the field that weren't getting called on the Chargers.. And he was thinking about all the yards that were called back on us. He was pissed.

lambertlunaticfan
11-18-2008, 02:11 AM
its what is wrong with sports...the refs are not held accountable for thier mistakes....and alot of time they dont even have to ansewer questions about them.....i think like in all sports when they hold a press conference after the game for players and coaches,well it should also be for the refs.....and if they make a mistake like the one in the game,it shouldnt be treated as a after fact,like oh,well we made a mistake,whats you going to do about it.....like ho-hum....to me,they should be fined suspended and delt with just like when a player breaks the rules......AND ENOUGH WITH THE FINING OF PLAYERS AND COACHES FOR COMMENTS ABOUT THEM,what are they held above the law,where you cant say anything bad about them,even if its true........that was a bad call......and it does matter as it did decided the outcome of the final score in the game...:banging:

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
11-18-2008, 02:19 AM
I'll be honest I did care about that TD.

You should, fair is fair, and you would if it was a game winning TD wouldn't you?

Preacher
11-18-2008, 02:28 AM
I'm sorry, but if you actually BELIEVE that the Steelers "committing" 14 penalties and the Chargers only committing one or two is legit, you're high. The Chargers are that disciplined? We are that undisciplined?

There's more going on here than meets the eye.

What's going on here, IMO, is the STeelers O line now has a reputation for being bad. As a result, the refs LOOK for penalties that the line would takle to stop the rush.

In the same way, we have a rep for hitting people HARD... so the refs LOOK for penalties...

Yesterday, there were some BAD calls. However, I think almost (except for a couple) calls on us were actually good calls. They WERE penalties.

The backwards pass issue, after the first pass from teh QB, the first lateral was actually forward, I stopped it and frame by frame forwarded it on my DVR and you can CLEARLY see the ball moving about a yard forward.

Did they blow the call after? Yep. They confused the first lateral with the second lateral.

BUt NONE OF THAT leads to "proof" that there was something going on behind the scenes.

brick
11-18-2008, 02:38 AM
yea to be fair i think a lot of the penalties we had were fairly given and had more to do with our sloppiness than crappy officiating.

that said, i wouldn't at all be surprised if the refs were looking to flag hines, i'm sure the nfl isn't happy about taking so much flak for fining him for hits that were deemed legal by the refs in games earlier in the season. if the refs flag him for hits in the game the nfl can fine him later and not face a backlash for fining a player for a legal play.

Preacher
11-18-2008, 02:42 AM
yea to be fair i think a lot of the penalties we had were fairly given and had more to do with our sloppiness than crappy officiating.

that said, i wouldn't at all be surprised if the refs were looking to flag hines, i'm sure the nfl isn't happy about taking so much flak for fining him for hits that were deemed legal by the refs in games earlier in the season. if the refs flag him for hits in the game the nfl can fine him later and not face a backlash for fining a player for a legal play.

See, now THAT makes sense.

Steel Duck
11-18-2008, 06:14 AM
I've been so sick over this whole thing I haven't even been able to post anything on here...

The second they took it..I said it was fixed...and their "explanation" of the reversal just convinces me of it even more....Not to mention the 13 pentalties called on us...(60% of which CBS couldn't find to show us!) And only 1 against the chargers....Nevermind the tons of holding I saw...the horsecollar...and the face mask...none of which was seen by a ref.....YEAH it wasn't fixed!!!!!! :doh:
Normally when we win no matter how close or how ugly, I'm happy to win! This was different though...this was a travesty!

stillers4me
11-18-2008, 06:32 AM
The TD should matter. Isn't there some thing in the playoff tiebreaker about point differential way down on the list. I mean, I would hope it doesn't come down to that, but a mistake like that could cost a team a playoff spot. A diehard will say it should never come down to that because we should have played better so one TD shouldn't make or break us, but still.........

Screw the gamblers, I don't think the NFL is changing the rules because of them.

SteelMember
11-18-2008, 10:23 AM
Seems as though the opposition is even calling BS and conspiracy on this subject.

I know we lost and all, but this has baffled me all day...the referees said there was a forward pass on that last play and therefor Polamalu's TD didn't count. But where was that forward pass?

The fact that that score change was significant in regards to the Vegas spread is also interesting...anyone know what happened?

http://forums.chargers.com/showthread.php?t=61113

TackleMeBen
11-18-2008, 10:39 AM
Did you see Ben's face on the side as he was watching the game? He looked pissed as hell, and something tells me he was seeing things all over the field that weren't getting called on the Chargers.. And he was thinking about all the yards that were called back on us. He was pissed.
shouldnt ben be looking at photos from the game and not watching the game?:chuckle: lol.

i did see tomlin say damn when we got stuffed at the 1..lol

stlrtruck
11-18-2008, 11:10 AM
Since this game has the potential to be a determining factor in our playoffs I have three solutions to it:

1) As a team, get over it we can't change it

2) Make up the points (basically run up the score) against teams we should blow out (i.e. the bungals)

3) Eliminate all doubt about our playoff position and run the table through February!!!

revefsreleets
11-18-2008, 12:13 PM
My concerns are these:

A) Opposition holding. Our defense is predicated upon pressure applied by speed rushers from the outside. If the other team is essentially being allowed to break the rules, that's going to have an impact on our defensive capabilities.
B) Penalties on big plays. Offsides on a two yard run, or holding on an incomplete pass are part of the game, but we only seem to get flagged on big, game changing plays. These areliterally momentum killers, plays where we see (for example) instead of 1st and 10 on their 40, we get a 10 yard hold from the spot and it ends up 1st and 25 from our 35.

When the penalities they commit are overt and obvious and not called, and ours are numerous, tick-tacky and VERY costly, I have to wonder what's really going on.

stlrtruck
11-18-2008, 02:41 PM
When the penalities they commit are overt and obvious and not called, and ours are numerous, tick-tacky and VERY costly, I have to wonder what's really going on.

Roger Goodell hates the Steelers and their fans!!!

steelreserve
11-18-2008, 03:06 PM
Screw the gamblers, I don't think the NFL is changing the rules because of them.

Hey, some of us make good money betting on football. Besides counting cards in blackjack, sports betting is the one thing you can do in a casino where you'll come out ahead over time if you're any good at it.

But really, nothing would surprise me. The NFL actually changed the rules of the game to speed things up for TV and had no problem coming right out and saying it, even though just about any fan will agree that they're all terrible rules. While gambling isn't really the same thing, just remember: When it's the NFL and there's money involved, then yes, be suspicious.