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Steelman16
12-01-2008, 02:30 AM
...that Lamarr Woodley could also break the Steelers regular season sack record?

Woodley (11 sacks) is one sack away from tying for 5th all-time.

And Harrison (14 sacks) is one sack away from tying for 1st all-time.


James Harrison is obviously a known commodity; a beast and a monster to be reckoned with. But Lamarr Woodley, a first-time starter is keeping pace with some of the best linebackers in the game.


There are still four games left.

:tt02: :tt02:

Preacher
12-01-2008, 02:31 AM
...that Lamarr Woodley could also break the Steelers regular season sack record?

Woodley (11 sacks) is one sack away from tying for 5th all-time.

And Harrison (14 sacks) is one sack away from tying for 1st all-time.


James Harrison is obviously a known commodity; a beast and a monster to be reckoned with. But Lamarr Woodley, a first-time starter is keeping pace with some of the best linebackers in the game.


There are still four games left.

:tt02: :tt02:

I would love for him to have a MONSTER game next week.

BrandonCarr39
12-01-2008, 02:43 AM
If you guys don't mind me asking...

How many true pass rushers do you guys have? Not only the starters, but 3rd down specialists as well?

Having watched alot of Giants and Eagles games, for example, both Steve Spagnuola and Jim Johnson would be very creative in their passing down packages...for example, they would line up 4 DEs, hence matching up quicker DEs with the bigger, albeit slower Guards. They also do alot of disguising, to the point where it's unpredictable of who will come in.

Anyhow-no, I'm not trying to pay good money for Dick LeBeau's playbook :flap:. but was just wondering how complex his scheme can be, that's all.

ShutDown24
12-01-2008, 03:25 AM
If you guys don't mind me asking...

How many true pass rushers do you guys have? Not only the starters, but 3rd down specialists as well?

Having watched alot of Giants and Eagles games, for example, both Steve Spagnuola and Jim Johnson would be very creative in their passing down packages...for example, they would line up 4 DEs, hence matching up quicker DEs with the bigger, albeit slower Guards. They also do alot of disguising, to the point where it's unpredictable of who will come in.

Anyhow-no, I'm not trying to pay good money for Dick LeBeau's playbook :flap:. but was just wondering how complex his scheme can be, that's all.

The way I see it, we really don't have... Well any 3rd down specialists. The only guy who comes to mind for me would be Lawrence Timmons. I notice him pass rushing on 3rd and long pretty often.

Honestly though, there aren't really any guys we put in on pass rush situations who have the soul purpose of getting to the quarterback. Even in Harrison and Woodley (The two starting outside backers) they are more all around linebackers then pass rush specialists. Last week against the Bengals we had Harrison in coverage for basically the entire game.

We do disguise well though in pass rush situations. A lot of times you'll see only one guy with his hand in the dirt for us with the remainder of the defense standing upright. Brett Kiesel is a guy who tends to stand up a lot and play a lot of hybrid LB/DE from his end spot on 3rd downs.

Some observations I've made this year are that we

- Have been sending more corner blitzes than usual it seems
- Haven't blitzed/crossed our middle linebackers as much as in the past
- Have actually been using linemen a little more in coverage

That's just off the top of my head, things that I think I have noticed from watching the games this year.

To sum it up the Steelers really do get sacks from every defensive position on the field.

One final note, you can expect #43 to hover around the LOS and just flat out leap over the O-line as soon as the ball is snapped a few times per game.

BrandonCarr39
12-01-2008, 03:40 AM
The way I see it, we really don't have... Well any 3rd down specialists. The only guy who comes to mind for me would be Lawrence Timmons. I notice him pass rushing on 3rd and long pretty often.

Honestly though, there aren't really any guys we put in on pass rush situations who have the soul purpose of getting to the quarterback. Even in Harrison and Woodley (The two starting outside backers) they are more all around linebackers then pass rush specialists. Last week against the Bengals we had Harrison in coverage for basically the entire game.

We do disguise well though in pass rush situations. A lot of times you'll see only one guy with his hand in the dirt for us with the remainder of the defense standing upright. Brett Kiesel is a guy who tends to stand up a lot and play a lot of hybrid LB/DE from his end spot on 3rd downs.

Some observations I've made this year are that we

- Have been sending more corner blitzes than usual it seems
- Haven't blitzed/crossed our middle linebackers as much as in the past
- Have actually been using linemen a little more in coverage

That's just off the top of my head, things that I think I have noticed from watching the games this year.

To sum it up the Steelers really do get sacks from every defensive position on the field.

One final note, you can expect #43 to hover around the LOS and just flat out leap over the O-line as soon as the ball is snapped a few times per game.

Interesting, thanks...

I remember reading last year after Tomlin got hired, that he would slowly incorporate his Cover 2 schemes he learned under Dungy/Kiffen in Tampa, although he wouldn't do it right away(hence keeping LeBeau).

So from what I've been reading above-has Tomlin's philosophies changed much from Cowher's?(I thought I read in the offseason you guys signed Bugger McFarland from Indy)

As for our D-schemes, I FEEL the players have finally got Wade's 3-4 attack schemes down pat. I'm seeing more blitzes and stunts done more effectively(Ware and Spencer are lined up all over the place, and our MLB Bradie James is being blitzed as well). However-if we have a weakness, it's our pass coverage. Our secondary is fine and deep, I think, but our LBs are pretty slow in terms of this area-we're vulnerable to RBs and TEs in the flat and underneath.(which is why I'm concerned how Wade will gameplan on how to stop Miller and Parker in the passing game) It was also like that under Parcells as well.

And our 3-4 NT, believe it or not, isn't a 330+ pd Hampton, Wilfork, Jamaal Williams, etc-it's a barely 300 pd Jay Ratliffe. Yeah-sounds strange b/c on paper, he's a bit undersized to play the nose in a 3-4, but he's been very effective. He took over last year when our other 3-4 guy, Jason Ferguson, went down in wk1.

What I DO miss out of Ferguson is his abilities to stop the inside run games of oppositions, like those big 3-4 NTs do. He's been doing just that in Miami, where we traded him to in the offseason.(Yeah, believe it or not, Parcells ended up raiding most of our staff and personnel) But nonetheless, our run D improved tremendously since Wade started calling the plays anyways.

Overall-looks like a very good matchup of 2 stout D's!

ShutDown24
12-01-2008, 03:51 AM
Interesting, thanks...

I remember reading last year after Tomlin got hired, that he would slowly incorporate his Cover 2 schemes he learned under Dungy/Kiffen in Tampa, although he wouldn't do it right away(hence keeping LeBeau).

So from what I've been reading above-has Tomlin's philosophies changed much from Cowher's?(I thought I read in the offseason you guys signed Bugger McFarland from Indy)

As for our D-schemes, I FEEL the players have finally got Wade's 3-4 attack schemes down pat. I'm seeing more blitzes and stunts done more effectively(Ware and Spencer are lined up all over the place, and our MLB Bradie James is being blitzed as well). However-if we have a weakness, it's our pass coverage. Our secondary is fine and deep, I think, but our LBs are pretty slow in terms of this area-we're vulnerable to RBs and TEs in the flat and underneath.(which is why I'm concerned how Wade will gameplan on how to stop Miller and Parker in the passing game) It was also like that under Parcells as well.

And our 3-4 NT, believe it or not, isn't a 330+ pd Hampton, Wilfork, Jamaal Williams, etc-it's a barely 300 pd Jay Ratliffe. Yeah-sounds strange b/c on paper, he's a bit undersized to play the nose in a 3-4, but he's been very effective. He took over last year when our other 3-4 guy, Jason Ferguson, went down in wk1.

What I DO miss out of Ferguson is his abilities to stop the inside run games of oppositions, like those big 3-4 NTs do. He's been doing just that in Miami, where we traded him to in the offseason.(Yeah, believe it or not, Parcells ended up raiding most of our staff and personnel) But nonetheless, our run D improved tremendously since Wade started calling the plays anyways.

Overall-looks like a very good matchup of 2 stout D's!

I was going to ask about Spencer, so he's been getting some playing time? The only action I've gotten to see from the Cowboys this year so far Ellis was still getting the nod I thought.

I remember when they put Ratliff in there from DE last year and he surprised everyone with how well he played. I still think though that being undersized he could be taken advantage of on the ground. I would love to see Gary Russell get some work next week being the biggest back (Other than Dookie - whos service is about as hard as his nickname) we have and try some power running.

When Tomlin arrived everyone thought we would be running a 4-3 Tampa 2 scheme by now, but it just hasn't happened. It seems to me that Lebeau has had some kind of influence on him. I think Tomlin has learned a lot from coach Lebeau and I hope we retain the 3 - 4 for a long time after coach "dad", as the players call him, is no longer with the team.

Anthony "Booger" McFarland was never signed or wasn't here long at all... I can't seem to recall which but he was either swiflty cut or (And I think this is what happened) failed a team physical.

Hines0wnz
12-01-2008, 04:12 AM
If you guys don't mind me asking...

How many true pass rushers do you guys have? Not only the starters, but 3rd down specialists as well?

Having watched alot of Giants and Eagles games, for example, both Steve Spagnuola and Jim Johnson would be very creative in their passing down packages...for example, they would line up 4 DEs, hence matching up quicker DEs with the bigger, albeit slower Guards. They also do alot of disguising, to the point where it's unpredictable of who will come in.

Anyhow-no, I'm not trying to pay good money for Dick LeBeau's playbook :flap:. but was just wondering how complex his scheme can be, that's all.

In the 3-4, most especially the LeBeau 3-4, the LBs are the heart and soul of it. That is why Harrison and Woodley are having monster years but its because of how their rushes are disguised/packaged rather than them being superior pass rushers. In this D, almost anyone can be a pass rusher on any given play. This means no pass rush specialist is needed and the opposing team has to practice against schemes and not particular players hence Steeler D dominance.

Someone mentioned that Timmons plays 3rd down quite a bit but that is because he isnt ready to start yet. Look out next year though.

ShutDown24
12-01-2008, 04:15 AM
Someone mentioned that Timmons plays 3rd down quite a bit but that is because he isnt ready to start yet. Look out next year though.

That's very true, but I think it's also because of his superior athleticism over Foote. Being an OLB in college he is more adept at rushing the passer from the MLB position than any other middle backer we have.

BrandonCarr39
12-01-2008, 04:17 AM
I was going to ask about Spencer, so he's been getting some playing time? The only action I've gotten to see from the Cowboys this year so far Ellis was still getting the nod I thought.

I remember when they put Ratliff in there from DE last year and he surprised everyone with how well he played. I still think though that being undersized he could be taken advantage of on the ground. I would love to see Gary Russell get some work next week being the biggest back (Other than Dookie - whos service is about as hard as his nickname) we have and try some power running.

When Tomlin arrived everyone thought we would be running a 4-3 Tampa 2 scheme by now, but it just hasn't happened. It seems to me that Lebeau has had some kind of influence on him. I think Tomlin has learned a lot from coach Lebeau and I hope we retain the 3 - 4 for a long time after coach "dad", as the players call him, is no longer with the team.

Anthony "Booger" McFarland was never signed or wasn't here long at all... I can't seem to recall which but he was either swiflty cut or (And I think this is what happened) failed a team physical.

For now, Spencer only comes in for obvious passing downs. He's being groomed, however, to replace Ellis when he departs.(FYI-remember the year we got alot of flack for passing over Randy Moss? Yep-our 1st round pick was Greg Ellis that year...you talk about someone who's an ultimate team player unlike that other guy)

Ratliffe-that's always been my concern, his size. Like I said, Ferguson's pass rushing skills are not all that great, but when it comes to the run game, he commands the double teams(Bradie James said it got to the point where it was tag team b/w them prior to him going down). He got traded in the offseason b/c of the salary cap implications, but he's been helping Miami's D stuff the inside runs tremendously. The reason why Ratliffe has thrived in the run game is b/c of Wade's schemes(1 gap or 2 gap-sorry, my brain is fried now, can't think). But yes, his biggest strength is at DE. However-Wade liked him so much at NT in TC, that he felt it unecessary to sign another NT. For now, it's working, it's working, so I can't complain. Also-Tank Johnson has improved his play in recent weeks as well when he would come in occasionally at the nose.

Even though I mentioned earlier our run D improved tremendously since Wade took over the playcalling, it REMAINS to be seen if we can sustain it over the final sprint full of tough opponents. I'm sure you're familiar with SS Roy Williams' horrible pass coverage skills, however-it wasn't until after he went down when we realized the valuable run support he gives us(although all we did prior was bark about his horse-collaring and crappy tackling). Clinton Portis just ripped us a good one a couple of weeks after he went down, as did Steven Jackson a month later.

Interesting about Tomlin-like I said in another thread, he's my around my age, and you have to admire a guy who's successful in a 24/7 high stress job. Good to hear he's having success with the Steelers system.

I'm (finally)going to bed now, but will be back sometime tomorrow. Good night!

Hines0wnz
12-01-2008, 04:19 AM
That's very true, but I think it's also because of his superior athleticism over Foote. Being an OLB in college he is more adept at rushing the passer from the MLB position than any other middle backer we have.

Having a starting LB lineup of Harrison, Woodley, Farrior and Timmons just seems unfair. :tt02:

Galax Steeler
12-01-2008, 04:31 AM
With four games left I can see Harrison taking over the top spot and Woodley could break it as well also what a duo they are.

ShutDown24
12-01-2008, 03:08 PM
Having a starting LB lineup of Harrison, Woodley, Farrior and Timmons just seems unfair. :tt02:

I know, I can't wait until Timmons cracks the starting lineup. Those four could... Wow I can't believe I am saying this... But in my opinion, those four could possibly turn into the best linebackers the Steelers have ever fielded at one time.

In other news, I have finally decided to stop bolding every single post I make lol.

Hapa
12-01-2008, 03:31 PM
If you guys don't mind me asking...

How many true pass rushers do you guys have? Not only the starters, but 3rd down specialists as well?

Having watched alot of Giants and Eagles games, for example, both Steve Spagnuola and Jim Johnson would be very creative in their passing down packages...for example, they would line up 4 DEs, hence matching up quicker DEs with the bigger, albeit slower Guards. They also do alot of disguising, to the point where it's unpredictable of who will come in.

Anyhow-no, I'm not trying to pay good money for Dick LeBeau's playbook :flap:. but was just wondering how complex his scheme can be, that's all.

Dick LeBeau does some pretty muthafathin' complicated ish

BrandonCarr39
12-01-2008, 04:10 PM
Dick LeBeau does some pretty muthafathin' complicated ish

For the most part, it's been years since we've had a creative DC like your's. When Parcells was here, he had a bend-but-don't-break philosophy. Even his blitzes were pretty vanilla. And then when Wade got here last year, even though our pass rush improved, that same philosophy carried over. It's changed over the last month-but like I said earlier, we've faced opponents with poor offenses.

Ultimately, was it the player personnel? Possibly-while I've noticed the 3-4 teams in this league like your's and San Diego's have numerous players with pass rushing skills, our's only has 3(Ware, Ellis, and Spencer-although Ellis isn't really a 3-4 guy). And Roy Williams' poor pass coverage skills didn't help matters either. Parcells converted our D to the 3-4 midway through his tenure here which had poor timing(I'll get into that in another thread).

Over on the CMB over the last couple of years, we've had several threads on what DC we should bring here. I believe alot of the fans wanted LeBeau when Cowher stepped down last year. We also interviewed Dom Capers-both last year and this, but he opted elsewhere. Jim Haslett was also a a hope of our's after the Saints fired him(Wow-you guys have had some excellent 3-4 D's).

BTW-speaking of Haslett-I thought he was a good coach for the Saints. He was coach of the year in year 1, but largely thanks to the front office bringing in players with explosive personalities, bad drafts, and a greedy owner, he didn't have much of a chance. Sean Payton isn't doing any better b/c of pretty much the same reasons.

jjpro11
12-02-2008, 03:04 AM
Dick LeBeau does some pretty muthafathin' complicated ish

actually this year, i dont think we have really had to run much of his crazy blitzes so far.. harrison and woodley have been so good at rushing the qb, that he can just send those two in off the edges and drop everyone back.. maybe drop a lineman back in coverage and bring another linebacker or corner, but nothing crazy.. thats why this d has been so stingy.. they are creating pressure equivalent to an all out blitz, only rushing the two outside backers.

this is a good thing... because from my guess, we havent been showing opposing teams much for the film room. come playoff time, lebeau can unleash his best blitzes and the qb wont know whats coming. at least i sure hope so.

jjpro11
12-02-2008, 03:05 AM
btw.. does anyone know the all-time record for sacks between two players? they have already broken the steelers all-time record with 4 games to spare, they have to be at least approaching an all-time record.

Steelman16
12-02-2008, 03:25 AM
All I can find is most sacks in a season by the team:

72 Chicago, 1984
71 Minnesota, 1989
70 Chicago, 1987

Still looking though...

jjpro11
12-02-2008, 04:09 AM
All I can find is most sacks in a season by the team:

72 Chicago, 1984
71 Minnesota, 1989
70 Chicago, 1987

Still looking though...

i found a thread on it somewhere else.. it looks like the 89 vikings - Chris Doleman had 21 and Keith Millard had 18.

doesnt look like they will get it.. they are on pace for 34 though.

also sacks werent recorded until 1982.. so lord knows how many guys like deacon jones had.

markymarc
12-02-2008, 07:36 PM
Woodley has been very impressive in his first year starting. And to think this kid is going to only get better with more playing time (very scary). Harrison is just a beast. He does everything very well.