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mesaSteeler
12-02-2008, 07:33 PM
Steelers, Roethlisberger Get No Love
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/88228-steelers-roethlisberger-get-no-love
by Leo Hayes (Contributor)

People love to hate the Steelers.

Why not? They are the most consistent playoff team since 1972, are tied in first for most Super Bowl wins at five, and appear poised to make that number larger.

When the Steelers win, ESPN will tell you it is usually because the other team made mistakes. When they lose it is because the other team "dominated" the Steelers. Even when they loss was by four points...and the Steelers were in the lead for 57 of 60 minutes. (Danm this sounds familiar - mesa)

With all of this hate floating around it is easy to point out Ben Roethlisberger, say that he is not good, that he makes mistakes, and that he frequently does things that make his team lose. This is made even easier by Roethlisberger himself as he, unlike any other quarterback, will take full credit for a loss, even if it was not his fault.

What you will hear less of is that Roethlisberger is poised to be the winningest quarterback in the first five years of his career, the youngest to win a Super Bowl, the first ever to win 13 consecutive starts (he did this as a rookie), and several others including the only quarterback to play a season after successfully stopping a car with his face.

When Roethlisberger has a bad stretch, as almost all quarterbacks have every season, people will say that he is not very good, talk of him will fade as talk of Matt Ryan, the NFL MVP ramps up. Are they joking, Ryan MVP? He is a rookie, and has eight wins, he set no records with this performance and is average at best.

In fact the only good thing about him is that he is a rookie with eight wins. Remember, Roethlisberger won fourteen his first season, and no one called for him to be the MVP.

Debates are always started about who is the best young quarterback, who will replace Peyton Manning and Tom Brady as the elite class. Roethlisberger is by far better than any other player considered for this category.

Many people say that Tony Romo is an elite quarterback. I have actually heard ramblings of people saying he is better than Brady. Romo has never won a playoff game. That's all I need to say about that.

In fact the only other player in the running is Eli Manning. Remember for a while in New York Manning was not good. He was skittish, threw far too many interceptions, and hurt his team more than he helped it. At that point in time Roethlisberger was leading his team to consecutive AFC Championship games and a Super Bowl.

Eli has an offensive line that is probably the best in the league, whereas Roethlisberger has a line that until recently has not been capable of handling a high school team's pass rush. Manning, however, is still very good, but Roethlisberger is better.

Analysts speculate on who the toughest quarterbacks are. Surprisingly is that Roethlisberger is often absent from many of these discussions as well. Roethlisberger gets hit more than any other quarterback and he thrives. Other people in his position lead their team to ruin.

To prove my point the only quarterback sacked more than Roethlisberger last year was Jon Kitna. Kitna's passer rating was more than twenty points lower than Roethlisberger's.

This year Roethlisberger has had injuries from week one, including ones to his throwing shoulder, both hands, and more. Through this he had some poor performances. He has also had two games of over 300 yards passing and has thrown more touchdowns than interceptions.

Roethlisberger's toughness is not just getting hit and bouncing back, he plays through injuries that would limit most player ability greatly and still does better than most of the quarterbacks out there now. He inspires his team by playing hurt, he shows faith in them by playing with the same team that has allowed him to get hurt, and through it has rallied them to play better.

Any discussion of the elite quarterbacks absent Roethlisberger is fraudulent. Roethlisberger is clearly the most established young quarterback and with most of his career still ahead of him he is likely to win a few more Super Bowl rings.

(Not only do we not get any love we don't even get any respect from the asshats in media. Witness that fat, senile, Steeler hating turd Madden's comments during the last Super Bowl or Trent Dilfer who yesterday on ESPN were still claiming that the Jets were the best in the AFC. I don't care if they like us or not but the lack of respect pisses me off. - mesa)

stillers4me
12-02-2008, 08:00 PM
We don't need no stinkin' media love. We're the Pittsburgh Steelers!!!!! Smackem' and jackem' up, boys!! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/sueincinci/Smileys/doublebeerbang.gif

ben7
12-02-2008, 08:01 PM
Most consistent for sure.

SteelersMongol
12-02-2008, 09:30 PM
We don't need no stinkin' media love. We're the Pittsburgh Steelers!!!!! Smackem' and jackem' up, boys!! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/sueincinci/Smileys/doublebeerbang.gif

TRUE THAT! :thumbsup: :drink:

fansince'76
12-02-2008, 09:34 PM
When the Steelers win, ESPN will tell you it is usually because the other team made mistakes. When they lose it is because the other team "dominated" the Steelers.

Hell, we have people on this board who say pretty much the same things.

Steelman16
12-02-2008, 09:45 PM
Roethlisberger Gets No Love

Gee, tell me about it! Do I really have to link to the thread? :chuckle:


...and several others including the only quarterback to play a season after successfully stopping a car with his face.

:toofunny:

While usually I detest any mention of Ben's near fatal accident, this one struck my funny bone for some reason.

RoethlisBURGHer
12-02-2008, 10:07 PM
When does Pittsburgh get much (positive) media attention?

We play a "boring" brand of football. We run the ball, we play stout defense, we take our shots throwing it...but we normally don't throw it 40-60 times a game.

I prefer the media hating on us or just plain ignoring us. But I do appreciate when they have nice things to say, it is nice to get some good press every once in a while.

BrandonCarr39
12-02-2008, 10:14 PM
When does Pittsburgh get much (positive) media attention?

We play a "boring" brand of football. We run the ball, we play stout defense, we take our shots throwing it...but we normally don't throw it 40-60 times a game.

I prefer the media hating on us or just plain ignoring us. But I do appreciate when they have nice things to say, it is nice to get some good press every once in a while.

One of our NFCE foes, the Redskins, were alot like that during their glory years with Allen/Gibbs. They would go into other teams' stadiums, kicks their butts, then would only keep a low profile until the their flight brought them back to DC...then they would start celebrating. They too played this style of football that the media didn't care about.

When we had 3 straight 5-11 seasons under Dave Campo early this decade, we STILL were garnering tons of media publicity from ESPN, Fox Sports, and pretty much every mainstream media outlet you can poke holes through.

Really-I prefer the route the Redskins and your team were forced to take...helps the coaches and players to focus alot better.

lilyoder6
12-02-2008, 10:20 PM
i too giggled a lil bit when he said that ben is the only qb 2 stop a car w/ his face...

BrandonCarr39
12-02-2008, 10:37 PM
Shhh! We play awesome under the radar! Remember our superbowl win a couple years back? Nobody saw us coming, not even when we made the playoffs with a tough schedule, not even when we beat the bengals, then the colts, then the broncos. Not until we won it all were we recognized to a......eh....certain extent as an elite team. Then we went 8-8 and all of a sudden we lose credibility. Pfft.....let them doubt, it only makes us better.

I remember I was in Mexico during the 1st 2 weeks of the NFL postseason. The hotel I was out had a FOX station, so was able to catch the Skins/Hawks NFCDG, but missed the others.

Luckily my dad understands how to read Spanish, so when we got a Mexican paper after that weekend, we were able to find out all the scores.

stlrtruck
12-03-2008, 08:38 AM
The only love that I need is the 5 Super Bowl Trophies residing at Heinz Field and the millions of Steelers Family across this great nation!!!

TackleMeBen
12-03-2008, 09:11 AM
how many qbs could stop a car with their face and still come back to play, albeit he didnt play well, but at least he came back to play.

LambertIsGod58
12-03-2008, 09:29 AM
Steelers, Roethlisberger Get No Love
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/88228-steelers-roethlisberger-get-no-love
by Leo Hayes (Contributor)

People love to hate the Steelers.

Why not? They are the most consistent playoff team since 1972, are tied in first for most Super Bowl wins at five, and appear poised to make that number larger.

When the Steelers win, ESPN will tell you it is usually because the other team made mistakes. When they lose it is because the other team "dominated" the Steelers. Even when they loss was by four points...and the Steelers were in the lead for 57 of 60 minutes. (Danm this sounds familiar - mesa)

With all of this hate floating around it is easy to point out Ben Roethlisberger, say that he is not good, that he makes mistakes, and that he frequently does things that make his team lose. This is made even easier by Roethlisberger himself as he, unlike any other quarterback, will take full credit for a loss, even if it was not his fault.

What you will hear less of is that Roethlisberger is poised to be the winningest quarterback in the first five years of his career, the youngest to win a Super Bowl, the first ever to win 13 consecutive starts (he did this as a rookie), and several others including the only quarterback to play a season after successfully stopping a car with his face.

When Roethlisberger has a bad stretch, as almost all quarterbacks have every season, people will say that he is not very good, talk of him will fade as talk of Matt Ryan, the NFL MVP ramps up. Are they joking, Ryan MVP? He is a rookie, and has eight wins, he set no records with this performance and is average at best.

In fact the only good thing about him is that he is a rookie with eight wins. Remember, Roethlisberger won fourteen his first season, and no one called for him to be the MVP.

Debates are always started about who is the best young quarterback, who will replace Peyton Manning and Tom Brady as the elite class. Roethlisberger is by far better than any other player considered for this category.

Many people say that Tony Romo is an elite quarterback. I have actually heard ramblings of people saying he is better than Brady. Romo has never won a playoff game. That's all I need to say about that.

In fact the only other player in the running is Eli Manning. Remember for a while in New York Manning was not good. He was skittish, threw far too many interceptions, and hurt his team more than he helped it. At that point in time Roethlisberger was leading his team to consecutive AFC Championship games and a Super Bowl.

Eli has an offensive line that is probably the best in the league, whereas Roethlisberger has a line that until recently has not been capable of handling a high school team's pass rush. Manning, however, is still very good, but Roethlisberger is better.

Analysts speculate on who the toughest quarterbacks are. Surprisingly is that Roethlisberger is often absent from many of these discussions as well. Roethlisberger gets hit more than any other quarterback and he thrives. Other people in his position lead their team to ruin.

To prove my point the only quarterback sacked more than Roethlisberger last year was Jon Kitna. Kitna's passer rating was more than twenty points lower than Roethlisberger's.

This year Roethlisberger has had injuries from week one, including ones to his throwing shoulder, both hands, and more. Through this he had some poor performances. He has also had two games of over 300 yards passing and has thrown more touchdowns than interceptions.

Roethlisberger's toughness is not just getting hit and bouncing back, he plays through injuries that would limit most player ability greatly and still does better than most of the quarterbacks out there now. He inspires his team by playing hurt, he shows faith in them by playing with the same team that has allowed him to get hurt, and through it has rallied them to play better.

Any discussion of the elite quarterbacks absent Roethlisberger is fraudulent. Roethlisberger is clearly the most established young quarterback and with most of his career still ahead of him he is likely to win a few more Super Bowl rings.

(Not only do we not get any love we don't even get any respect from the asshats in media. Witness that fat, senile, Steeler hating turd Madden's comments during the last Super Bowl or Trent Dilfer who yesterday on ESPN were still claiming that the Jets were the best in the AFC. I don't care if they like us or not but the lack of respect pisses me off. - mesa)


Well, you pointed out no MVP talk for Ben his rookie year. That's simple. His success was a result of the running game and defense. All it takes is a little common sense and some research. But instead, you are all too blind b/c you really can't see anything when your head is up Ben's a$$.


2004 Season

Passing game: 2720 yds, 20 TD's, 170yds pg and ranked 28TH

Running game: 2464 yds, 16TD's, 154yds pg and ranked 2ND

Defense: Ranked 1ST in the NFL and allowed 15.7 ppg

fansince'76
12-03-2008, 09:33 AM
Well, you pointed out no MVP talk for Ben his rookie year. That's simple. His success was a result of the running game and defense. All it takes is a little common sense and some research. But instead, you are all too blind b/c you really can't see anything when your head is up Ben's a$$.


2004 Season

Passing game: 2720 yds, 20 TD's, 170yds pg and ranked 28TH

Running game: 2464 yds, 16TD's, 154yds pg and ranked 2ND

Defense: Ranked 1ST in the NFL and allowed 15.7 ppg

Dude, get off it already, OK?

LambertIsGod58
12-03-2008, 09:36 AM
Dude, get off it already, OK?


Am I not refuting the post that was made?

LambertIsGod58
12-03-2008, 09:37 AM
Dude, get off it already, OK?


If you are gonna tell me to get off it, then you may wanna think about telling the same people starting threads like this one to give it a rest.

The_WARDen
12-03-2008, 09:48 AM
he's no Trent Dilfer that's for sure!

LambertIsGod58
12-03-2008, 09:52 AM
he's no Trent Dilfer that's for sure!


Ben is better than Dilfer...but going 15-1 with the stats he had doesn't scream MVP. Thus Ben not being in contention for it in '04. Wasn't that the argument?

The_WARDen
12-03-2008, 09:57 AM
:popcorn:

another thread hijacked...

TackleMeBen
12-03-2008, 10:33 AM
thats ok if the media doesnt love the steelers or ben.. at least the fans do:tt02::tt02:

fansince'76
12-03-2008, 11:45 AM
Am I not refuting the post that was made?

Sure, right along with a healthy dose of flame-baiting:

....instead, you are all too blind b/c you really can't see anything when your head is up Ben's a$$.

Please stop trying to bait people into arguing with you about this.

SteelMember
12-03-2008, 11:52 AM
"It's deja vu all over again"

lilyoder6
12-03-2008, 11:58 AM
if u don't like ben thats fine,, but u don't need 2 go around bashing ppl who do

LambertIsGod58
12-03-2008, 01:20 PM
Sure, right along with a healthy dose of flame-baiting:



Please stop trying to bait people into arguing with you about this.


Ok...I see your point now in hindsight. But if people are gonna continue to make start threads like this, expect me to challenge.

XxKnightxX
12-03-2008, 01:37 PM
Big Ben> Tommy Maddox...oo yeah, ill take that any day

LambertIsGod58
12-03-2008, 01:43 PM
Big Ben> Tommy Maddox...oo yeah, ill take that any day

So would I...but that's not saying too much about Ben. There's a ton of guys I'd take over Tommy.

The_WARDen
12-03-2008, 02:51 PM
He hates Ben...just accept that fact and move on. Arguing in circles doesn't solve anything.

Just note that anytime something about Ben gets posted, you get the customary flack from him. Just ignore it and everything will be fine.

:banging:

MACH1
12-03-2008, 03:27 PM
Ben is better than Dilfer...but going 15-1 with the stats he had doesn't scream MVP. Thus Ben not being in contention for it in '04. Wasn't that the argument?

:yawn: :yawn:

LambertIsGod58
12-03-2008, 05:07 PM
:yawn: :yawn:


It's funny I didn't see you yawn at yet another "Ben" not getting any love thread? Like there hasn't been enough of those. I wasn't gonna post it, but since we are gonna continue to go round and round with this, let's look at the 2005 season that Ben supposedly brought us at title. I would think this would suggest a more logical conclusion that the running game and defense played a more integral part in that title. Not saying Ben didn't do anything, but he wasn't the key factor as alot of you would like to believe.




Passing: 2926yds, 21TD's, 182.6ypg Ranked 24th in the NFL.

Rushing: 2223yds, 21TD's, 138.9ypg RANKED 5TH in the NFL.

Defense: 4544 yards allowed, 16.1ppg, RANKED 4TH OVERALL

STEELAMANIA
12-03-2008, 05:16 PM
Forget the media. The fans show it. Who made the media God? God Almighty is a Steeler fan.

iloveben7
12-03-2008, 08:18 PM
Well, you pointed out no MVP talk for Ben his rookie year. That's simple. His success was a result of the running game and defense. All it takes is a little common sense and some research. But instead, you are all too blind b/c you really can't see anything when your head is up Ben's a$$.


2004 Season

Passing game: 2720 yds, 20 TD's, 170yds pg and ranked 28TH

Running game: 2464 yds, 16TD's, 154yds pg and ranked 2ND

Defense: Ranked 1ST in the NFL and allowed 15.7 ppg

even though the rankings don't show it, our passing game was better than our running game

NYC SteelersFan
12-03-2008, 08:20 PM
Well, you pointed out no MVP talk for Ben his rookie year. That's simple. His success was a result of the running game and defense. All it takes is a little common sense and some research. But instead, you are all too blind b/c you really can't see anything when your head is up Ben's a$$.


2004 Season

Passing game: 2720 yds, 20 TD's, 170yds pg and ranked 28TH

Running game: 2464 yds, 16TD's, 154yds pg and ranked 2ND

Defense: Ranked 1ST in the NFL and allowed 15.7 ppg

Here's the fact Lambert, if Eli or Romo or a Dolphins, Jets, New England, Philadeplphia, San Diego and possibly San Francisco QB had done what Roethlisberger did his rookie year, they would've either won or at least been runner up for MVP of the league that year. The media bias is obvious in every sport when it comes to this.

If you're not a big market, they don't care.They'll throw a dog a bone every now and then so it's not blatantly obvious. They consider Pittsburgh an insignificant city and so that is how they treat Pittsburgh teams and fans. (insignificant to the economy and the corporations the media organizations are a part of)

iloveben7
12-03-2008, 08:28 PM
Here's the fact Lambert, if Eli or Romo or a Dolphins, Jets, New England, Philadeplphia, San Diego and possibly San Francisco QB had done what Roethlisberger did his rookie year, they would've either won or at least been runner up for MVP of the league that year. The media bias is obvious in every sport when it comes to this.

If you're not a big market, they don't care.They'll throw a dog a bone every now and then so it's not blatantly obvious. They consider Pittsburgh an insignificant city and so that is how they treat Pittsburgh teams and fans. (insignificant to the economy and the corporations the media organizations are a part of)

I agree 100%. It's sad how Pittsburgh teams never get any credit or recognition, but I prefer it that way, so we aren't ALWAYS in the media and I enjoy being under the radar.

lilyoder6
12-03-2008, 08:52 PM
i could see them hype up a player if he was in another city.. shit they were hyping up cassel after having back-to-back 400 yrd passing games... and then he laids an egg against our def...

LambertIsGod58
12-03-2008, 08:53 PM
even though the rankings don't show it, our passing game was better than our running game

At the risk of sounding sarcastic here, what are you looking at that would suggest a 28th passing game was better? I'd like to see it....

NYC SteelersFan
12-03-2008, 09:06 PM
i could see them hype up a player if he was in another city.. shit they were hyping up cassel after having back-to-back 400 yrd passing games... and then he laids an egg against our def...

They seriously had the full blown hype parade ready to go if he beat the Steelers. There is no doubt in my mind they would started full steam at that point.

"The patriots are back to leding the AFC behind Cassel"
"The old gun slinging veteran Favre vs the Hot dawg young gun slinger Cassel"
"Cassel proves superior to Roethlisberger and the Steelers"
"Cassel not too far behind Brady"

I can just imagine how many clever one liner's that fat pig Chris Berman had ready if the Patriots had won.

And the Felatio Festival that would've followed on Sunday and Monday night football would have been enough to make a pornstar jealous.

iloveben7
12-03-2008, 09:07 PM
At the risk of sounding sarcastic here, what are you looking at that would suggest a 28th passing game was better? I'd like to see it....

oh no I completely understand that the running game was ranked higher. I was just saying by comparing our own passing stats to our own running stats they were higher. I'm not stupid. And I thought it was completely unnecessary for you to pm me those stats. I know how obsessed you are with my so-called "crush" on Ben, but I actually know a lot more about football than just Ben.

fansince'76
12-03-2008, 09:09 PM
They seriously had the full blown hype parade ready to go if he beat the Steelers. There is no doubt in my mind they would started full steam at that point.

"The patriots are back to leding the AFC behind Cassel"
"The old gun slinging veteran Favre vs the Hot dawg young gun slinger Cassel"
"Cassel proves superior to Roethlisberger and the Steelers"
"Cassel not too far behind Brady"

I can just imagine how many clever one liner's that fat pig Chris Berman had ready if the Patriots had won.

And the Felatio Festival that would've followed on Sunday and Monday night football would have been enough to make a pornstar jealous.

Funny as hell, because it's true. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

tony hipchest
12-03-2008, 09:30 PM
hey lamberts, the only thing i really see anyone saying is defending ben.

what would you do if somebody was saying jack lambert was nothing but a beneficiary of the steel curtain, jack ham, mel blount and donnie shell?

stats werent a statistic back then for me to refer too, but didnt he have just an average game in one of his sb appearances?

point is, just like every nfl fan has their favorite team, most steelerfans have their favorite player, regardless it they are "the best".

Hammer Of The GODS
12-03-2008, 09:41 PM
Hmmm

I seem to recall the Steelers having a great ground game throughout Bill Cowhers career at Pittsburgh. That very same ground game wasn't enough to get Bill his championship! It wasn't until he took the shackles off Ben in the playoffs and allowed his QB to win it for him. Sure Ben didn't play well in the SB but he did enough to win it!

You speak of Bens inability to win without a run game and great defense as some kind of crutch.

That's a bullshit arguement!

Dan Marino never got a ring because he had no ground game to support him. John Elway couldn't get one without Terrel Davis. Do you think Terry Bradshaw would have a ring without Franco and the Rock? C'mon dude, if you don't like Ben that's fine; But give the guy credit for being one of the NFLs elite QBs. Because that's what he is.

iloveben7
12-03-2008, 09:48 PM
hey lamberts, the only thing i really see anyone saying is defending ben.

what would you do if somebody was saying jack lambert was nothing but a beneficiary of the steel curtain, jack ham, mel blount and donnie shell?

stats werent a statistic back then for me to refer too, but didnt he have just an average game in one of his sb appearances?

point is, just like every nfl fan has their favorite team, most steelerfans have their favorite player, regardless it they are "the best".

Thank you

HughC
12-03-2008, 09:57 PM
Back to the original post, a couple of points. First, I thought the national media was very complimentary after last week's win. Second, regarding Roethlisberger getting no love, just a few weeks ago it wasn't just the national media - he was getting no love here in this forum just a few weeks ago too, when dozens of people were calling for him to be benched.

As far as Madden goes, he's had an unhealthy man-crush on Favre for years, so it's no surprise he's foaming at the mouth over the Jest. And for espn, it's all about ratings for them. It has nothing to do with unbiased journalism, they're going to go with whatever will make them the most money. For example, look at how much they were talking about Denver early this year. I can't believe that they're really that stupid to believe the Bronco defense could get that team anywhere.

tony hipchest
12-03-2008, 10:04 PM
oh, and back to the OP i do remember some in the national media mentionning ben in the MVP grouping in his rookie year, but at that point no qb had ever even won the offensive rookie of the year award. (i think he mightve even finished 5th or so in the voting which means he got 2-3 votes hundereds of other players in the nfl DIDNT get.

for what its worth kordell was runner up for league mvp (i think to favre in 97)

LambertIsGod58
12-03-2008, 10:21 PM
hey lamberts, the only thing i really see anyone saying is defending ben.

what would you do if somebody was saying jack lambert was nothing but a beneficiary of the steel curtain, jack ham, mel blount and donnie shell?

stats werent a statistic back then for me to refer too, but didnt he have just an average game in one of his sb appearances?

point is, just like every nfl fan has their favorite team, most steelerfans have their favorite player, regardless it they are "the best".


Honestly Tony, I watched SB's IX, X, XIII & XIV a billion times. First, what's an average game for a MLB? Second, Lambert having an average game or the worst game of any winning MLB are two totally different things. My statements seem to be misconstrued. I'm tired of saying this......I'VE NEVER SAID BEN SUCKS!!! I'll challenge anyone to show me that I posted otherwise. What I'm saying is that he gets more credit than he deserves. I've proven that. If you, ILOVEBEN7 or NYC choose not to see it that way, fine. But I'm not gonna sit back and listen to all the slobbering without saying my two cents. Do you see my slobber all over Lambert thread after thread? No....And as much as Lambert is and always will be my favorite player, cases can be made that there have been better players at his position. Does that make me confrontational? No....because it's true.

tony hipchest
12-03-2008, 11:03 PM
Honestly Tony, I watched SB's IX, X, XIII & XIV a billion times. First, what's an average game for a MLB? Second, Lambert having an average game or the worst game of any winning MLB are two totally different things.

not really. its kinda a fair comparison. im pretty sure ben and lambert are the 2 most recent steeler rookie of the year award winners. whats an average game for a 2nd year quarterback in the superbowl? by all accounts, he shoulda choked worse than neil odonnell.

his inexperience in the league shoulda made it an easy blowout for seattle despite how well the steeler running game and defense were. (our defense and running game were superb against dallas in '95- good enough to win).

jack didnt have to come in and be the leader of the team in 74-75. neither did ben in 04-05.

jack isnt just a hall of famer because of his numbers and rings (as great as they were). he is a pittsburgh legend because of his style of play and his relentlesness.

ben isnt appreciated for his numbers (even though he broke bradshaws td record last year, and is the winningest qb through their 1st 5 years, and will likely go down as the steelers leading passer). he, too, is appreciated for his style of play and grit.

i just cant see how some steelerfans dont see and recognize this.

everyone wants to take credit away from ben for sb XL. and give it to who? the defense? would they have played with such a swagger and confidence if maddox was leading them into battle? if it were maddox, we lose to the colts and dont sniff the sb, and cowher continues the legacy of being "cowher in the playoffs" (i.e. "martyball").

none of us, as steelerfans, have ever witnessed what ben has brought to the table.

-15-1 record
-sb in 2nd year
- 28+ td's in a single year
-2nd in passer rating to record breaker tom brady
-48+ wins in 1st 5 years

it is what it is, and deserves to be recognized and appreciated. theres really no sense in denying it, and trying to downplay it.


http://espn.go.com/i/editorial/2006/0518/photo/ben_roethlisberger_cheese2_275.jpg

iloveben7
12-03-2008, 11:13 PM
Honestly Tony, I watched SB's IX, X, XIII & XIV a billion times. First, what's an average game for a MLB? Second, Lambert having an average game or the worst game of any winning MLB are two totally different things. My statements seem to be misconstrued. I'm tired of saying this......I'VE NEVER SAID BEN SUCKS!!! I'll challenge anyone to show me that I posted otherwise. What I'm saying is that he gets more credit than he deserves. I've proven that. If you, ILOVEBEN7 or NYC choose not to see it that way, fine. But I'm not gonna sit back and listen to all the slobbering without saying my two cents. Do you see my slobber all over Lambert thread after thread? No....And as much as Lambert is and always will be my favorite player, cases can be made that there have been better players at his position. Does that make me confrontational? No....because it's true.

I know that you've never said Ben sucks, but it just seems to me that you don't give him enough credit. I know he doesn't deserve all the credit and no one should, but he deserves some credit for winning that Superbowl, no matter what his rating was, like I've discussed earlier. It may seem that I worship Ben or something, but I don't. I may think more highly of him than you or other people on this board, but he's the reason why I started to watch football and be an obsessed fan of the sport.


Ben's a breath of fresh air, not only to the Steelers, but to the NFL and I could care less if one other person agrees with me.

NYC SteelersFan
12-04-2008, 12:06 AM
not really. its kinda a fair comparison. im pretty sure ben and lambert are the 2 most recent steeler rookie of the year award winners. whats an average game for a 2nd year quarterback in the superbowl? by all accounts, he shoulda choked worse than neil odonnell.

his inexperience in the league shoulda made it an easy blowout for seattle despite how well the steeler running game and defense were. (our defense and running game were superb against dallas in '95- good enough to win).

jack didnt have to come in and be the leader of the team in 74-75. neither did ben in 04-05.

jack isnt just a hall of famer because of his numbers and rings (as great as they were). he is a pittsburgh legend because of his style of play and his relentlesness.

ben isnt appreciated for his numbers (even though he broke bradshaws td record last year, and is the winningest qb through their 1st 5 years, and will likely go down as the steelers leading passer). he, too, is appreciated for his style of play and grit.

i just cant see how some steelerfans dont see and recognize this.

everyone wants to take credit away from ben for sb XL. and give it to who? the defense? would they have played with such a swagger and confidence if maddox was leading them into battle? if it were maddox, we lose to the colts and dont sniff the sb, and cowher continues the legacy of being "cowher in the playoffs" (i.e. "martyball").

none of us, as steelerfans, have ever witnessed what ben has brought to the table.

-15-1 record
-sb in 2nd year
- 28+ td's in a single year
-2nd in passer rating to record breaker tom brady
-48+ wins in 1st 5 years

it is what it is, and deserves to be recognized and appreciated. theres really no sense in denying it, and trying to downplay it.


http://espn.go.com/i/editorial/2006/0518/photo/ben_roethlisberger_cheese2_275.jpg

Well said

fansince'76
12-04-2008, 12:09 AM
Well said

Yes it was, and I guarantee you it will all be for naught anyway. :rolleyes:

NYC SteelersFan
12-04-2008, 12:20 AM
Honestly Tony, I watched SB's IX, X, XIII & XIV a billion times. First, what's an average game for a MLB? Second, Lambert having an average game or the worst game of any winning MLB are two totally different things. My statements seem to be misconstrued. I'm tired of saying this......I'VE NEVER SAID BEN SUCKS!!! I'll challenge anyone to show me that I posted otherwise. What I'm saying is that he gets more credit than he deserves. I've proven that. If you, ILOVEBEN7 or NYC choose not to see it that way, fine. But I'm not gonna sit back and listen to all the slobbering without saying my two cents. Do you see my slobber all over Lambert thread after thread? No....And as much as Lambert is and always will be my favorite player, cases can be made that there have been better players at his position. Does that make me confrontational? No....because it's true.

I don't slobber him at all, I don't make random posts or start threads jocking Roethlisberger, I only counter when you say he is over paid or overrated/hyped because neither is true. He gets paid accordingly to what a QB of his ranking would make any where else in the league. You remember how much Eli was signed to before even showing the slightest sign of being good, that is over paid. You think when his agent and the Steelers front office are negotiating his extension, the front office says, "hey, he even though he won the superbowl he still sucked in it so we'll only give him this much." All his stats are layed out on the table, where he ranks over his years of play and he gets paid accordingly. We've talked about the money and you know you're wrong about it especially with money usually being meaningless in the NFL unless you're the Oakland Raiders.

We also have talked about him being overrated/hyped and the fact that it is only true on this forum, it's a Steelers forum, you have to learn to live with it. If someone is giving him a ridiculous amount of credit for wins, then fine, say something. But if you give him a ridiculous amount of credit for a loss, then expect someone like me to say something.

And I personally will never say that he is the best right now, no way. But I do acknowledge and appreciate that he is one of the top 5 QB's in the league regardless of what you say because there is absolutely no way in hell Eli Manning, Romo or Carson Palmer are better than Roethlisberger.

NYC SteelersFan
12-04-2008, 12:29 AM
Hmmm

I seem to recall the Steelers having a great ground game throughout Bill Cowhers career at Pittsburgh. That very same ground game wasn't enough to get Bill his championship! It wasn't until he took the shackles off Ben in the playoffs and allowed his QB to win it for him. Sure Ben didn't play well in the SB but he did enough to win it!

You speak of Bens inability to win without a run game and great defense as some kind of crutch.

That's a bullshit arguement!

Dan Marino never got a ring because he had no ground game to support him. John Elway couldn't get one without Terrel Davis. Do you think Terry Bradshaw would have a ring without Franco and the Rock? C'mon dude, if you don't like Ben that's fine; But give the guy credit for being one of the NFLs elite QBs. Because that's what he is.

And don't forget, Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith and a pretty solid defense. And Jerry rice for Montana and Young. Emmit smith and Irving for Aikman and Dorsey Levens and Antonio Freeman for Favre.

NYC SteelersFan
12-04-2008, 12:30 AM
Back to the original post, a couple of points. First, I thought the national media was very complimentary after last week's win. Second, regarding Roethlisberger getting no love, just a few weeks ago it wasn't just the national media - he was getting no love here in this forum just a few weeks ago too, when dozens of people were calling for him to be benched.

As far as Madden goes, he's had an unhealthy man-crush on Favre for years, so it's no surprise he's foaming at the mouth over the Jest. And for espn, it's all about ratings for them. It has nothing to do with unbiased journalism, they're going to go with whatever will make them the most money. For example, look at how much they were talking about Denver early this year. I can't believe that they're really that stupid to believe the Bronco defense could get that team anywhere.

I watched ESPN to hear what they had to say, they made it seem more like a case of the Patriots never having been that good and coming back down to earth rather than the Steelers completely abusing them.

NYC SteelersFan
12-04-2008, 12:38 AM
oh, and back to the OP i do remember some in the national media mentionning ben in the MVP grouping in his rookie year, but at that point no qb had ever even won the offensive rookie of the year award. (i think he mightve even finished 5th or so in the voting which means he got 2-3 votes hundereds of other players in the nfl DIDNT get.

for what its worth kordell was runner up for league mvp (i think to favre in 97)

Kordell was runer up because he was ESPN's original modern day "great black hype" just before Akili Smith and McNabb and well before Vick.

And lord knows how big of a fan of Kordell's I was and how many QB records I smashed with him in the first NFL Blitz (he was on the cover and had that great paperboy commercial where he was throwing the papers threw peoples doors if anyone remembers).

The fact is, if Roethlisberger was black, possibly Latino, definitely Asian, or if he was on the Giants, Jets or Patriots, he definitely would've won that award. A doofy white guy from Pittsburgh will never win an award like that. He is just not "media sexy" enough.

fansince'76
12-04-2008, 12:40 AM
I watched ESPN to hear what they had to say, they made it seem more like a case of the Patriots never having been that good and coming back down to earth rather than the Steelers completely abusing them.

I don't watch ESPN outside of the occasional Steelers game being broadcast on it, but that isn't surprising. The Pats* game was a no-win situation for this team from a respect standpoint either way. If we won this game, even as convincingly as we did, it was because Golden Boy was out. If we had lost, then it just would've confirmed all the ESPN "experts'" suspicions that we were nothing more than a pretender that built a respectable record by beating up on shitty teams.

NYC SteelersFan
12-04-2008, 12:51 AM
I don't watch ESPN outside of the occasional Steelers game being broadcast on it, but that isn't surprising. This was a no-win situation for this team from a respect standpoint either way. If we won this game, even as convincingly as we did, it was because Golden Boy was out. If we had lost, then it just would've confirmed all the ESPN "experts'" suspicions that we were nothing more than a pretender that built a respectable record by beating up on shitty teams.

And that Cassel "IS THE NEXT TOM BRADY! Sean Salisbury said it first folks! Let's go to our two guru QB analysts, Trent Dilfer and Sean King. Guys what do you think??"

King: "Best quarterback I've ever seen, the Steelers should think about trading Roethlisberger for a punter and signing Cassel."

Dilfer: "Tom Brady better hurry back or his job might not be waiting for him."

"We now head back to the studio where the clever fat pig Chris Berman spews out some fancy quips about why the Steelers suck and Cassel and the Patriots will win the Superbowl while Tommy Jackson/Ed McMahon laughs and agrees with every single word Berman says."

LambertIsGod58
12-04-2008, 02:58 AM
not really. its kinda a fair comparison. im pretty sure ben and lambert are the 2 most recent steeler rookie of the year award winners. whats an average game for a 2nd year quarterback in the superbowl? by all accounts, he shoulda choked worse than neil odonnell.

his inexperience in the league shoulda made it an easy blowout for seattle despite how well the steeler running game and defense were. (our defense and running game were superb against dallas in '95- good enough to win).

jack didnt have to come in and be the leader of the team in 74-75. neither did ben in 04-05.

jack isnt just a hall of famer because of his numbers and rings (as great as they were). he is a pittsburgh legend because of his style of play and his relentlesness.

ben isnt appreciated for his numbers (even though he broke bradshaws td record last year, and is the winningest qb through their 1st 5 years, and will likely go down as the steelers leading passer). he, too, is appreciated for his style of play and grit.

i just cant see how some steelerfans dont see and recognize this.

everyone wants to take credit away from ben for sb XL. and give it to who? the defense? would they have played with such a swagger and confidence if maddox was leading them into battle? if it were maddox, we lose to the colts and dont sniff the sb, and cowher continues the legacy of being "cowher in the playoffs" (i.e. "martyball").

none of us, as steelerfans, have ever witnessed what ben has brought to the table.

-15-1 record
-sb in 2nd year
- 28+ td's in a single year
-2nd in passer rating to record breaker tom brady
-48+ wins in 1st 5 years

it is what it is, and deserves to be recognized and appreciated. theres really no sense in denying it, and trying to downplay it.


http://espn.go.com/i/editorial/2006/0518/photo/ben_roethlisberger_cheese2_275.jpg


First, Louis Lipps in '84 and Kendrell Bell in '01 both won ROY. Second, you can't compare Bradshaw's total numbers due to the fact that the Mel Blount rule didn't apply until 78. Yes, he broke Bradshaw's season record of 28TD's. And I'll be the first to say he had a great year last year. But if you look at his first three and this year, the numbers pale in comparison. Give me three or four years like last and I'll agree he's an elite quarterback. But just because he's the QB on the team I've been a fan of all my life doesn't make him that same elite QB. And Ben had 32TDs last year. I agree with Maddox we don't make SB XL, but that's not saying much. The man was out of football for 10yrs after being a bust. That's not a surprise.

markymarc
12-04-2008, 06:46 AM
It's always been that way and I don't expect it to change anytime soon. While it does get sickening I wouldn't have it any other way.

The_WARDen
12-04-2008, 08:23 AM
isn't this now, that other thread which was just closed because of the Ben is good/Ben sucks merry-go-round?

:noidea:

lilyoder6
12-04-2008, 08:33 AM
basically how all threads of ben turns out... he sucks, then he good then he sucks... and then he great.... just like a rollar coaster

MACH1
12-04-2008, 08:56 AM
basically how all threads of ben turns out... he sucks, then he good then he sucks... and then he great.... just like a rollar coaster

Then the thread goes into lock down. Merry Go Round ride over.

T.Richardson
12-04-2008, 11:59 AM
First, Louis Lipps in '84 and Kendrell Bell in '01 both won ROY. Second, you can't compare Bradshaw's total numbers due to the fact that the Mel Blount rule didn't apply until 78. Yes, he broke Bradshaw's season record of 28TD's. And I'll be the first to say he had a great year last year. But if you look at his first three and this year, the numbers pale in comparison. Give me three or four years like last and I'll agree he's an elite quarterback. But just because he's the QB on the team I've been a fan of all my life doesn't make him that same elite QB. And Ben had 32TDs last year. I agree with Maddox we don't make SB XL, but that's not saying much. The man was out of football for 10yrs after being a bust. That's not a surprise.

Dude, you are blind. Bens didnt even play a full season in his first two years. His first season, he missed 2 games. His second season he missed 4 games. His second season, if he had played a full season would have passed for 3,000 yards, 20+ TDs. If you want to compare Bradshaws numbers to Bens numbers there first three years. It wouldnt be close, Ben is the winner in that department. Do you know how horrible Bradshaw was his first 5 years? We are lucky to have a QB who had a great first few seasons. Bradshaw never really had a great season, and yet he won 4 superbowls, and 2 superbowl MVPS. His play in the postseason got him into the HOF. Ben in his superbowl year had a 101 Passer rating, 800 yards, 7 TDs, 3 ints, and a season saving tackle against the Colts. You only focus on the season stats. Brady doesnt have overwhelming stats in the regular season, but in the post season you could count on his arm. We counted on Bens arm in the post season, and fed off of that.

Ah, the Mel Blount rule. I didnt see that. Well that would completely void my comparison with Bradshaw.

Dino 6 Rings
12-04-2008, 12:02 PM
Win me a SIXTH Ring and you'll get plenty of love Mr Ben.

bottom line. What have you done for ME lately.

cubanstogie
12-04-2008, 12:09 PM
Dude, you are blind. Bens didnt even play a full season in his first two years. His first season, he missed 2 games. His second season he missed 4 games. His second season, if he had played a full season would have passed for 3,000 yards, 20+ TDs. If you want to compare Bradshaws numbers to Bens numbers there first three years. It wouldnt be close, Ben is the winner in that department. Do you know how horrible Bradshaw was his first 5 years? We are lucky to have a QB who had a great first few seasons. Bradshaw never really had a great season, and yet he won 4 superbowls, and 2 superbowl MVPS. His play in the postseason got him into the HOF. Ben in his superbowl year had a 101 Passer rating, 800 yards, 7 TDs, 3 ints, and a season saving tackle against the Colts. You only focus on the season stats. Brady doesnt have overwhelming stats in the regular season, but in the post season you could count on his arm. We counted on Bens arm in the post season, and fed off of that.

You are wasting your breath. I don't think he watched the 3 playoff games on the road. And if he did I am sure he will say we won because Palmer was injured, Our defense won against Colts, and Not sure what excuse he would use when we dominate the Broncos. Ben may not be as great as some of us think he is, only time will tell really. But he certainly is as bad as God58 thinks he is. God58 probably thinks Ben makes our O-line look bad, and the passes that Nate drops consistently are not tight enough spirals. The fact that he would take Rivers, Eli and Brees over Ben proves he has no eye for talent. His parameter for a great QB is how many times the guy throws for over 300 regardless of a win or interceptions. Translation, another stat guy.

T.Richardson
12-04-2008, 12:19 PM
Win me a SIXTH Ring and you'll get plenty of love Mr Ben.

bottom line. What have you done for ME lately.

He won you a 5th Superbowl. Well without his tackle, we wouldnt have a 5th superbowl.

fansince'76
12-04-2008, 12:31 PM
Win me a SIXTH Ring and you'll get plenty of love Mr Ben.

bottom line. What have you done for ME lately.

Yep, and it's exactly this attitude that caused Bradshaw to have a hard-on against this fanbase for a good 20 years after he retired. And he got roundly criticized for that as well - "Why wasn't Bradshaw at (fill in name of old-timers function)? He must've wanted an exorbitant appearance fee - the greedy bastard." If I spent a decade-and-a-half being constantly criticized by a bunch of ingrates who are never and will never be satisified, I would have passed as well.

NYC SteelersFan
12-04-2008, 01:04 PM
fact that he would take Rivers, Eli and Brees over Ben proves he has no eye for talent. His parameter for a great QB is how many times the guy throws for over 300 regardless of a win or interceptions. Translation, another stat guy.

I think that is the best way to describe our friend Lambert and that is the bottom line. Either a fantasy football player or a guy who loves pass-happy, stat-padding offenses. What I don't understand is how he has put up with the Steelers for the past 15 years if that is his thing.

My other gripe is that he picks and chooses which posts to argue against. He'll ignore 3-4 posts filled with irrefutable stats and than pop up again and post Roethlisberger's Superbowl stats and say, "See! he sucks!"

The_WARDen
12-04-2008, 01:05 PM
I live in Philly now... Ben was on a team that produced a championship. That championship enables me to shut up all the idiots out here.

Heck, there's even a stinkin Cowgirl fan at my workplace (don't ask)...he can't say squat to me because they haven't done anything since 1996.

Only one other Steeler QB has produced that...his name was Bradshaw. Had Neil O'Donnell not choked away his SB, he'd be included in that circle.

Stats...smats... Ben is golden provided he doesn't start playing like Kordell.

LambertIsGod58
12-05-2008, 12:58 AM
You are wasting your breath. I don't think he watched the 3 playoff games on the road. And if he did I am sure he will say we won because Palmer was injured, Our defense won against Colts, and Not sure what excuse he would use when we dominate the Broncos. Ben may not be as great as some of us think he is, only time will tell really. But he certainly is as bad as God58 thinks he is. God58 probably thinks Ben makes our O-line look bad, and the passes that Nate drops consistently are not tight enough spirals. The fact that he would take Rivers, Eli and Brees over Ben proves he has no eye for talent. His parameter for a great QB is how many times the guy throws for over 300 regardless of a win or interceptions. Translation, another stat guy.


If stats don't show talent, what does? Mediocre stats and still winning games? I don't think Ben is an elite QB. And all the guys you mentioned are having better years, statisically. As I've said before, if 13TD's and 12 INT's at this stage of the year is elite, you have low standards. The O-line does have issues but Ben does hold onto the ball too long. BTW, I've shown the numbers and it's blatantly obvious that Ben was along for the ride in '05. The running game and defense was the bread and butter.

LambertIsGod58
12-05-2008, 12:59 AM
Yep, and it's exactly this attitude that caused Bradshaw to have a hard-on against this fanbase for a good 20 years after he retired. And he got roundly criticized for that as well - "Why wasn't Bradshaw at (fill in name of old-timers function)? He must've wanted an exorbitant appearance fee - the greedy bastard." If I spent a decade-and-a-half being constantly criticized by a bunch of ingrates who are never and will never be satisified, I would have passed as well.


we agree on something....:tt03:

LambertIsGod58
12-05-2008, 01:04 AM
I think that is the best way to describe our friend Lambert and that is the bottom line. Either a fantasy football player or a guy who loves pass-happy, stat-padding offenses. What I don't understand is how he has put up with the Steelers for the past 15 years if that is his thing.

My other gripe is that he picks and chooses which posts to argue against. He'll ignore 3-4 posts filled with irrefutable stats and than pop up again and post Roethlisberger's Superbowl stats and say, "See! he sucks!"

I don't argue every post b/c you, and I included, are saying the same things over and over again. No matter how many times I say them, you still don't get what I'm saying. You can put words in my mouth all you want. But I don't think Ben sucks nor did I say it. But because I don't think Ben is an elite QB that automatically equals that I think he sucks. Not only is that not true, but it's an unfair statement. And in reference to your earlier statement, I'm a Steelers fan first. Not an individual player.

NYC SteelersFan
12-05-2008, 01:47 AM
If stats don't show talent, what does? Mediocre stats and still winning games? I don't think Ben is an elite QB. And all the guys you mentioned are having better years, statisically.

You're right, they are having better years, but every other year prior, Roethlisberger has been better than Eli, so what is the method of judging stats here between 2 players? Whatever the current season stats are, that decides which QB is better than the other?

Just answer this question right here, don't add anything else to the post. Just answer this one question I am asking you in this post please. In 4 3/4 years Roethlisberger has had better stats in every single year except this year (which isn't even over yet). But because Eli has been better through 12 games this year, that means Eli is the better QB?

LambertIsGod58
12-05-2008, 02:13 AM
You're right, they are having better years, but every other year prior, Roethlisberger has been better than Eli, so what is the method of judging stats here between 2 players? Whatever the current season stats are, that decides which QB is better than the other?

Just answer this question right here, don't add anything else to the post. Just answer this one question I am asking you in this post please. In 4 3/4 years Roethlisberger has had better stats in every single year except this year (which isn't even over yet). But because Eli has been better through 12 games this year, that means Eli is the better QB?

Over the last 4 3/4 seasons , Ben has been the better QB. Even with that said, Eli has been the better of the two for the last year and a half or so. I totally respect your allegiance to Ben....and that's not sarcasm. I just don't have it.

NYC SteelersFan
12-05-2008, 02:22 AM
Over the last 4 3/4 seasons , Ben has been the better QB. Even with that said, Eli has been the better of the two for the last year and a half or so. I totally respect your allegiance to Ben....and that's not sarcasm. I just don't have it.

We're getting somewhere, just hear me out and don't go off topic from this, I mean if this is your method of judging QB's, I won't judge or disrespect, no sarcasm here either. But, since you admit Roethlisberger has been better than Eli for the first 56 games of their careers and Eli has been better for the last 12 regular season games (+4 playoff games) does that makes Eli better than Roethlisberger overall? Or does that make Eli better over the last 12 games?

LambertIsGod58
12-05-2008, 02:22 AM
You're right, they are having better years, but every other year prior, Roethlisberger has been better than Eli, so what is the method of judging stats here between 2 players? Whatever the current season stats are, that decides which QB is better than the other?

Just answer this question right here, don't add anything else to the post. Just answer this one question I am asking you in this post please. In 4 3/4 years Roethlisberger has had better stats in every single year except this year (which isn't even over yet). But because Eli has been better through 12 games this year, that means Eli is the better QB?

Obviously stats don't lie....with a QB rating like Ben has had over the years he's a proficient QB. That doesn't mean he's tearing up record books either. The face of this team, although it seems to be changing, has always been a run first, ball control offense. With a nasty a$$ defense to boot. Over the years Ben has made plays that he's needed to make, to make the team successful. I"m not disputing that. Im saying that the majority of the success that the Steelers have had since drafting Ben has still been because of the same run first mentality and physical defense. I don't think that says Ben sucks at all. It's just saying that we're not winning games predominantly because of his arm. Have we? Absolutely.....

LambertIsGod58
12-05-2008, 02:29 AM
We're getting somewhere, just hear me out and don't go off topic from this, I mean if this is your method of judging QB's, I won't judge or disrespect, no sarcasm here either. But, since you admit Roethlisberger has been better than Eli for the first 56 games of their careers and Eli has been better for the last 12 regular season games (+4 playoff games) does that makes Eli better than Roethlisberger overall? Or does that make Eli better over the last 12 games?


That's a tough one....reason being that I'd say that it makes Eli the better QB right now. And Ben the better QB for the first 4 3/4 years. I guess it's that Eli made a big progression in that latter part of last year. And hasn't declined since IMO. At least overall. Ben on the other hand is playing worse than he did last year. Is is partly due to our line issues? Y es, but I feel like it's Ben too. It just seems to me like more than enough people will should offensivel line this or offensive line that when it comes to blame. But when it's time to celebrate a win, it's nothing but Ben this and Ben that. This team is WAY TOO talented to be viewed that way.

NYC SteelersFan
12-05-2008, 02:45 AM
Im saying that the majority of the success that the Steelers have had since drafting Ben has still been because of the same run first mentality and physical defense. I don't think that says Ben sucks at all. It's just saying that we're not winning games predominantly because of his arm. Have we? Absolutely.....

I'm pretty much with you on this, But that doesn't change my mind on Roethlisberger being one of the top 5 QB's in the league because he is regardless of how good the team surrounding him is.

NYC SteelersFan
12-05-2008, 02:52 AM
That's a tough one....reason being that I'd say that it makes Eli the better QB right now. And Ben the better QB for the first 4 3/4 years. I guess it's that Eli made a big progression in that latter part of last year. And hasn't declined since IMO. At least overall. Ben on the other hand is playing worse than he did last year. Is is partly due to our line issues? Y es, but I feel like it's Ben too. It just seems to me like more than enough people will should offensivel line this or offensive line that when it comes to blame. But when it's time to celebrate a win, it's nothing but Ben this and Ben that. This team is WAY TOO talented to be viewed that way.

Okay, that's the first time you answered my question, and argued my point DIRECTLY, and your reasoning is not so bad. But I still disagree. I think Eli has progressed because this Giants team has progressed behind a solid defense, one of the best if not THE best offensive line in football, a great rush game, great head coach (just rememer what Coughlin used to do to the Steelers with the Jaguars with Mark Brunell), and the third or possibly even second best receiver in the league.

On the flip side Roethlisberger has gone down hill along with the offensive line, running game, non-lethal receivers (as far as an aerial attack goes), very bad play-calling and a head coach who is kind of learning on the job.

At this point, there is no way Eli is better than Roethlisberger considering how badly Roethlisberger leads Eli in career stats and only trails Eli this year. I would wait for the end of this year and all of next year before being able to say that Eli has over taken Roethlisberger. And with the Burress drama getting worse and worse, I'm confident that Eli is headed right back down the toilet where he came out of for the last 16 games.

The Duke
12-05-2008, 10:49 AM
Over the years Ben has made plays that he's needed to make, to make the team successful.

And THAT is why ben is the perfect fit for this team. That's why I believe a Romo type passer or a phillip rivers wouldn't work here

He's proven he can win. And yes, he's proven he can throw away games at times. But hey, so has favre, and he's too my favorite qb ever.

Obviously stats don't lie....with a QB rating like Ben has had over the years he's a proficient QB. That doesn't mean he's tearing up record books either.

Like I said, ben doesn't have to break passing records to prove he's a winner. He does just enough to help his team win

Stats are nice, but they rarely tell the whole story

But when it's time to celebrate a win, it's nothing but Ben this and Ben that. This team is WAY TOO talented to be viewed that way.

Cannot argue with that

I don't give Ben the credit when they win. It's a team win

I do give it to him though when he almost singlehandedly wins the game ( Jax game this year, Browns comebacks in 06-07, and a number of others)

BrandonCarr39
12-05-2008, 09:24 PM
Hey, just SLIGHTLY off track here...someone posted this pic on our board today. Has anyone seen this? Or was this photoshopped?

http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l406/RealityTVLounge/bigbenroethlis.jpg

fansince'76
12-07-2008, 02:21 PM
Eli Manning vs. Eagles today: 5/16 for 37 yards through 3+ quarters of play and a 17-7 deficit for the Giants at home. Look like Kordell Stewart type of numbers to me. Just saying....

MACH1
12-07-2008, 02:23 PM
Eli Manning vs. Eagles today: 5/16 for 37 yards through 3+ quarters of play and a 17-7 defecit for the Giants at home. Look like Kordell Stewart type of numbers to me. Just saying....

But, but, he's soooo much better than Ben. :rolleyes:

fansince'76
12-07-2008, 02:31 PM
And the Giants fail to convert on 4th-and-1 and turn the ball over on downs thanks to another incomplete pass on Eli's part. He's now a whopping 7/21 for 66 yards. Wow, give this guy the NFL MVP award now. :coffee:

Brandon
12-07-2008, 02:44 PM
The Steelers will NEVER get national media of love. Everyone is jealous of the way we operate. We are a well oiled machine. We don't blow money on free agents. We don't have a circus atmosphere. We aren't a finesse team in a large market.

We are a bunch of ugly looking bad ass dudes who win football games. That is Steeler football, and I love it, no matter what CBS, FOX, NBC, ESPN, TSN, BBC, etc think about us.

MACH1
12-07-2008, 02:52 PM
And the Giants fail to convert on 4th-and-1 and turn the ball over on downs thanks to another incomplete pass on Eli's part. He's now a whopping 7/21 for 66 yards. Wow, give this guy the NFL MVP award now. :coffee:

Eli's a lock for MVP. This stealer performance today all but guarantees it. :thumbsup:

fansince'76
12-07-2008, 02:54 PM
Whoa - he's up to 10-24 for 96 yards with about 1:30 left in the 4th. He's flirting with the century mark for passing yards now! Will he do it, ladies and gentlemen? Stay tuned! :cheer:

fansince'76
12-07-2008, 02:56 PM
Woohoo! The Great Eli passes for a 1-yard TD in garbage time to bring his numbers on the day to 13-27 for 123 yards and 1 TD! Almost a 50% completion rate! Outstanding! :coffee:

NYC SteelersFan
12-07-2008, 03:40 PM
Woohoo! The Great Eli passes for a 1-yard TD in garbage time to bring his numbers on the day to 13-27 for 123 yards and 1 TD! Almost a 50% completion rate! Outstanding! :coffee:

Hey Fan, you like how Coughlin stat-padded his numbers on the last drive, hoping defense's wouldn't take notice of how awful he truly is without the 2nd or 3rd best wide receiver in the league?

Without the B.S. psychological purposes only drive-

7 completions 21 attempts
53 yards
0 TD's and 0 INT's

It's good to have you back Eli, we missed you buddy.

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 04:42 PM
easy to talk shit, but I don't see Ben lighting it up either.

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 04:43 PM
6/18 and a fumble.....LMFAO!!!!

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 04:43 PM
Woohoo! The Great Eli passes for a 1-yard TD in garbage time to bring his numbers on the day to 13-27 for 123 yards and 1 TD! Almost a 50% completion rate! Outstanding! :coffee:

Ben doesn't look like he's gonna outplay that today.....but I wouldn't expect you to see it.

fansince'76
12-07-2008, 04:44 PM
easy to talk shit, but I don't see Ben lighting it up either.

At least Ben ain't losing. :coffee:

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 04:46 PM
Yeah...here we go. Ben ain't losin? What's he done? Is one the field playing defense? You're a joke!!! Ben blinders on once again@

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 04:47 PM
Ben's done nothing for put them in the lead....NOTHING!

fansince'76
12-07-2008, 04:49 PM
Yeah...here we go. Ben ain't losin? What's he done? Is one the field playing defense? You're a joke!!! Ben blinders on once again@

What did Eli do today? 'Nuff said. :coffee:

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 04:50 PM
you come on here to bash Eli....you're better off keeping your trap shut. It's making you look like more of an idiot that I thought you were. If that's possible?

fansince'76
12-07-2008, 04:51 PM
Yeah...here we go. Ben ain't losin? What's he done? Is one the field playing defense? You're a joke!!! Ben blinders on once again@

No, sir - you're supposedly a "Steelers fan," and you celebrate the fact that the offense is stuck in neutral. YOU ARE THE JOKE.

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 04:53 PM
No, sir - you're supposedly a "Steelers fan," and you celebrate the fact that the offense is stuck in neutral. YOU ARE THE JOKE.

You know what....I'm celebrating that you look like a jack off for ripping Eli apart and Ben's playing the way he is. Maybe you shoulda waited until after Ben played. Then maybe you would have looked more cool about it.

fansince'76
12-07-2008, 04:54 PM
You know what....I'm celebrating that you look like a jack off for ripping Eli apart and Ben's playing the way he is. Maybe you shoulda waited until after Ben played. Then maybe you would have looked more cool about it.

Game over, genius? No, I didn't think so. :coffee:

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 04:56 PM
you've proven to be self serving enough in your posts....it's your speed. Ben the big time QB. LOL!!! Big game today, but it's the O-line's fault.

The Duke
12-07-2008, 04:56 PM
why not wait till after the game ? :noidea:

fansince'76
12-07-2008, 04:57 PM
you've proven to be self serving enough in your posts....it's your speed.

Pot, meet kettle. :coffee:

Ben sucks and I wuv me some Brett Favre!

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 04:58 PM
Pot, meet kettle. :coffee:

WOW!!! That was so witty of you. You must have had some help with it. Bottom line is Ben is on a big game stage. I hope that have plenty of medical help there. Sounds like he's starting to choke.

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 04:59 PM
Pot, meet kettle. :coffee:

Ben sucks and I wuv me some Brett Favre!

Favre is outplaying Ben today and for the season. You're just too stupid to see it.

fansince'76
12-07-2008, 05:00 PM
WOW!!! That was so witty of you. You must have had some help with it. Bottom line is Ben is on a big game stage. I hope that have plenty of medical help there. Sounds like he's starting to choke.

:yawn: :yawn: :yawn:

Really, that's all your brilliant "analysis" deserves at this point. :coffee:

fansince'76
12-07-2008, 05:01 PM
Favre is outplaying Ben today and for the season. You're just too stupid to see it.

Keep riding his jock, pal.

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 05:03 PM
Keep riding his jock, pal.

no comeback about Favre's play compared to Ben today or for the season? Didn't think so.

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 05:09 PM
Nice pass to Parker's back.....and yet another sack. Oh dear!

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 05:13 PM
Keep riding his jock, pal.

where did you go sweetheart? You cryin' on Mommy's shoulder?

fansince'76
12-07-2008, 05:14 PM
where did you go sweetheart? You cryin' on Mommy's shoulder?

Watching a game - no time to argue with idiots at the moment. :coffee:

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 05:16 PM
At least Ben ain't losing. :coffee:

He ain't? 10-3 last time I checked. Rethink it and get back to me.

fansince'76
12-07-2008, 05:17 PM
He ain't? 10-3 last time I checked. Rethink it and get back to me.

Run along and go play with your Favre blowup doll. :coffee:

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 05:17 PM
Watching a game - no time to argue with idiots at the moment. :coffee:

you had plenty of time before.....still no argument for Ben being outplayed today by Favre? And for the season? I'm still waiting........

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 05:18 PM
Run along and go play with your Favre blowup doll. :coffee:

are you still sulking? Momma will make it alright.......

fansince'76
12-07-2008, 05:19 PM
are you still sulking? Momma will make it alright.......

Is the Favre blowup life-size? I bet it is.

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 05:21 PM
that's all you got? You really are the joke I thought. It takes a big man to come out and run their mouth about the other QB's in the league....but when you have Ben, you really have no room to talk. But you're just to ignorant to keep your pie hole shut.

fansince'76
12-07-2008, 05:23 PM
that's all you got? You really are the joke I thought. It takes a big man to come out and run their mouth about the other QB's in the league....but when you have Ben, you really have no room to talk. But you're just to ignorant to keep your pie hole shut.

Like I said, pot meet kettle. And oh, look, the mighty Favre-led Jets are trailing to the....Niners.

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 05:26 PM
Like I said, pot meet kettle. And oh, look, the mighty Favre-led Jets are trailing to the....Niners.

but isn't he outplaying Ben? Yep, that's what I thought. But by looking around the league, the question might better be who isn't?

fansince'76
12-07-2008, 05:31 PM
but isn't he outplaying Ben? Yep, that's what I thought. But by looking around the league, the question might better be who isn't?

16-21 for 108? Yeah, that's some all-world shit right there. Clutch that blowup a little tighter.

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 05:33 PM
16-21 for 108? Yeah, that's some all-world shit right there. Clutch that blowup a little tighter.

get that dick out of your mouth before you speak....what are Ben's numbers right now? 8/21for 75 yds, a fumble and sacked twice. No objectivity.

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 05:36 PM
Holy shit....a nice ball thrown by Ben. Excuse me while I pinch myself.

fansince'76
12-07-2008, 05:36 PM
No objectivity.

You don't have any either - Favre hasn't done jack shit either - as Ben completes a 47-yarder. You're a tool. Keep responding, I won't respond any more.

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 05:42 PM
You don't have any either - Favre hasn't done jack shit either - as Ben completes a 47-yarder. You're a tool. Keep responding, I won't respond any more.

I'm taking my ball and going home.....wah wah!

NYC SteelersFan
12-07-2008, 05:52 PM
you come on here to bash Eli....you're better off keeping your trap shut. It's making you look like more of an idiot that I thought you were. If that's possible?

You are the one who said Eli was better than Roethlisberger and that makes you look like an idiot no matter what Roethlisberger does today because for the last time, Roethlisberger kills Eli in ever single stat category for both of their 4 2/4 careers and Eli has had the 2nd/3rd best receiver in the league for most of that time. He's had a handfull of "good" games over the past 16 games and people like you got back on his originally over-hyped jock strap. Now that the guy who bailed him out for 3 years had to get bailed out of prison, Eli has started his regression back to the slop that he is and yet you actually said you he is better than Roethlisberger cause he has had a better 12 games this season and the previous 47 games the two of them plays didn't matter.

Honestly, I question whether you're a true fan of this team, I think you may just be a Lambert fan and because of that you root for the Steelers. I don't know any true Steelers fan who roots for whatever team Favre is on and roots for the Steelers to do bad cause he or she thinks that Roethlisberger is over-rated.

LambertIsGod58
12-07-2008, 06:13 PM
You are the one who said Eli was better than Roethlisberger and that makes you look like an idiot no matter what Roethlisberger does today because for the last time, Roethlisberger kills Eli in ever single stat category for both of their 4 2/4 careers and Eli has had the 2nd/3rd best receiver in the league for most of that time. He's had a handfull of "good" games over the past 16 games and people like you got back on his originally over-hyped jock strap. Now that the guy who bailed him out for 3 years had to get bailed out of prison, Eli has started his regression back to the slop that he is and yet you actually said you he is better than Roethlisberger cause he has had a better 12 games this season and the previous 47 games the two of them plays didn't matter.

Honestly, I question whether you're a true fan of this team, I think you may just be a Lambert fan and because of that you root for the Steelers. I don't know any true Steelers fan who roots for whatever team Favre is on and roots for the Steelers to do bad cause he or she thinks that Roethlisberger is over-rated.

My point is you or anyone else on here shouldn't be bashing any QB considering Ben's ability this year.

SteelCurtain7
12-07-2008, 06:45 PM
Steelers, Roethlisberger Get No Love
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/88228-steelers-roethlisberger-get-no-love
by Leo Hayes (Contributor)

People love to hate the Steelers.

Why not? They are the most consistent playoff team since 1972, are tied in first for most Super Bowl wins at five, and appear poised to make that number larger.

When the Steelers win, ESPN will tell you it is usually because the other team made mistakes. When they lose it is because the other team "dominated" the Steelers. Even when they loss was by four points...and the Steelers were in the lead for 57 of 60 minutes. (Danm this sounds familiar - mesa)

With all of this hate floating around it is easy to point out Ben Roethlisberger, say that he is not good, that he makes mistakes, and that he frequently does things that make his team lose. This is made even easier by Roethlisberger himself as he, unlike any other quarterback, will take full credit for a loss, even if it was not his fault.

What you will hear less of is that Roethlisberger is poised to be the winningest quarterback in the first five years of his career, the youngest to win a Super Bowl, the first ever to win 13 consecutive starts (he did this as a rookie), and several others including the only quarterback to play a season after successfully stopping a car with his face.

When Roethlisberger has a bad stretch, as almost all quarterbacks have every season, people will say that he is not very good, talk of him will fade as talk of Matt Ryan, the NFL MVP ramps up. Are they joking, Ryan MVP? He is a rookie, and has eight wins, he set no records with this performance and is average at best.

In fact the only good thing about him is that he is a rookie with eight wins. Remember, Roethlisberger won fourteen his first season, and no one called for him to be the MVP.

Debates are always started about who is the best young quarterback, who will replace Peyton Manning and Tom Brady as the elite class. Roethlisberger is by far better than any other player considered for this category.

Many people say that Tony Romo is an elite quarterback. I have actually heard ramblings of people saying he is better than Brady. Romo has never won a playoff game. That's all I need to say about that.

In fact the only other player in the running is Eli Manning. Remember for a while in New York Manning was not good. He was skittish, threw far too many interceptions, and hurt his team more than he helped it. At that point in time Roethlisberger was leading his team to consecutive AFC Championship games and a Super Bowl.

Eli has an offensive line that is probably the best in the league, whereas Roethlisberger has a line that until recently has not been capable of handling a high school team's pass rush. Manning, however, is still very good, but Roethlisberger is better.

Analysts speculate on who the toughest quarterbacks are. Surprisingly is that Roethlisberger is often absent from many of these discussions as well. Roethlisberger gets hit more than any other quarterback and he thrives. Other people in his position lead their team to ruin.

To prove my point the only quarterback sacked more than Roethlisberger last year was Jon Kitna. Kitna's passer rating was more than twenty points lower than Roethlisberger's.

This year Roethlisberger has had injuries from week one, including ones to his throwing shoulder, both hands, and more. Through this he had some poor performances. He has also had two games of over 300 yards passing and has thrown more touchdowns than interceptions.

Roethlisberger's toughness is not just getting hit and bouncing back, he plays through injuries that would limit most player ability greatly and still does better than most of the quarterbacks out there now. He inspires his team by playing hurt, he shows faith in them by playing with the same team that has allowed him to get hurt, and through it has rallied them to play better.

Any discussion of the elite quarterbacks absent Roethlisberger is fraudulent. Roethlisberger is clearly the most established young quarterback and with most of his career still ahead of him he is likely to win a few more Super Bowl rings.

(Not only do we not get any love we don't even get any respect from the asshats in media. Witness that fat, senile, Steeler hating turd Madden's comments during the last Super Bowl or Trent Dilfer who yesterday on ESPN were still claiming that the Jets were the best in the AFC. I don't care if they like us or not but the lack of respect pisses me off. - mesa)


They're getting some from the Fox Sports crew. Terry, Howie, and Michael anyway.

mesaSteeler
12-07-2008, 07:14 PM
Well the Steelers sure didn't get any love from ESPN after the game. Trent D*ckhead Dillfer and rest spent all the time talking about the Cowgirls. They spent maybe 30 seconds talking about the Steelers out of the 5 minutes segment.

They didn't talk about one of the fantastic defensive effort of the Steelers.

Not a word about how the Steelers have a four game winning streak against the toughest schedule in NFL history.

Not a word about the Steelers standing in the AFC.

Not even a word about how no team has put over 300 yards against the Steelers D.

Trent D*ckhead even called Ben a game manger.

It was disgusting.

I hate ESPN.

markymarc
12-07-2008, 08:42 PM
My point is you or anyone else on here shouldn't be bashing any QB considering Ben's ability this year.

And yet Ben continues to win football games. You can throw out statistics all you want, but I will take a win every single time. Your Ben bashing is comical at best.

Frankie3521
12-07-2008, 08:45 PM
I love Ben, but the guy is highly incosistent. I suppose it could be something to do with the shitty o-line.

Frankie3521
12-07-2008, 08:47 PM
Well the Steelers sure didn't get any love from ESPN after the game. Trent D*ckhead Dillfer and rest spent all the time talking about the Cowgirls. They spent maybe 30 seconds talking about the Steelers out of the 5 minutes segment.

They didn't talk about one of the fantastic defensive effort of the Steelers.

Not a word about how the Steelers have a four game winning streak against the toughest schedule in NFL history.

Not a word about the Steelers standing in the AFC.

Not even a word about how no team has put over 300 yards against the Steelers D.

Trent D*ckhead even called Ben a game manger.

It was disgusting.

I hate ESPN.

You know why? Because Trent played for the Browns when we stomped there ass!
:tt:

NYC SteelersFan
12-07-2008, 09:02 PM
Well the Steelers sure didn't get any love from ESPN after the game. Trent D*ckhead Dillfer and rest spent all the time talking about the Cowgirls. They spent maybe 30 seconds talking about the Steelers out of the 5 minutes segment.

They didn't talk about one of the fantastic defensive effort of the Steelers.

Not a word about how the Steelers have a four game winning streak against the toughest schedule in NFL history.

Not a word about the Steelers standing in the AFC.

Not even a word about how no team has put over 300 yards against the Steelers D.

Trent D*ckhead even called Ben a game manger.

It was disgusting.

I hate ESPN.

Save yourself biased/subjective, idiotic, scripted analysis all week and year from ESPN and most of the media in regards to the Steelers. They are just not "media sexy" enough for them to market to viewers. You know cause we play defense, we don't pass 50 times a game, we don't have a media over-rated/hyped first round pick who is sucks and most importantly we suspend key players for big games for things like possesion of weed rather than letting a guy who hid an illegal gun for a guy who shot himself accidently in a public place actually play afterwards without any infraction what so ever.

Brandon
12-07-2008, 09:07 PM
It's called BSPN for future references. :tt02:

NYC SteelersFan
12-07-2008, 10:10 PM
It's called BSPN for future references. :tt02:

Bull$hit sports Programming Network?

mesaSteeler
12-07-2008, 10:26 PM
It's called BSPN for future references. :tt02:

I'll keep it mind. However given the sheer size of Steeler Nation why would a network disrespect that many viewers? I would not expect everyone on the network to love us but that they just ignore our existence is beyond belief.

You are correct about Trent D*ickhead. I've really scene such a case of penis envy in a dude before. He so totally jealous of us it's pathetic.

NYC SteelersFan
12-07-2008, 11:14 PM
I'll keep it mind. However given the sheer size of Steeler Nation why would a network disrespect that many viewers? I would not expect everyone on the network to love us but that they just ignore our existence is beyond belief.

You are correct about Trent D*ickhead. I've really scene such a case of penis envy in a dude before. He so totally jealous of us it's pathetic.

We're not a big market, they don't care regardless of how many fans we have. They consider Pittsburgh insignificant to the economy and corporations that the media organizations are a part of. ESPN is for big marker or the care-free fan. The guy who watches every sport and roots for individual players and random teams depending on the standings. They'll just do their best not to offend so as to not lose any viewers, but they do a bad job at that.

Sean Salisbury-19 TD's and 19 INT's for his 8 yearcareer and a QB rating of 72.9
Trent Dilfer-113 TD's and 129 INT's for his 14 year career and a QB rating of 70.2
Shaun King-27 TD's and 24 INT's for his 6 year career and a QB rating of 73.4

These are their 3 resident QB analysts. This is a punchline and the joke is anyone who listens to a word that comes out of their mouths.

SteelCurtain7
12-07-2008, 11:19 PM
Actually, Salisbury got the axe a long time ago. I think he's working for Fox News (the last I heard, anyway).

iloveben7
12-07-2008, 11:46 PM
The Steelers will NEVER get national media of love. Everyone is jealous of the way we operate. We are a well oiled machine. We don't blow money on free agents. We don't have a circus atmosphere. We aren't a finesse team in a large market.

We are a bunch of ugly looking bad ass dudes who win football games. That is Steeler football, and I love it, no matter what CBS, FOX, NBC, ESPN, TSN, BBC, etc think about us.

I would have to disagree with that lol

LambertIsGod58
12-08-2008, 02:47 PM
Eli Manning vs. Eagles today: 5/16 for 37 yards through 3+ quarters of play and a 17-7 deficit for the Giants at home. Look like Kordell Stewart type of numbers to me. Just saying....

And let's look at what Ben did vs the same Eagles, shall we?


13/25 131yds 0TD's, 1INT, 8 sacks and 2 lost fumbles.




Yeah, Ben owns Eli's ass! (sarcasm if I wasn't laying it on thick enough) And how about the same NYG vs PHI at Philly.

Eli 17/31 191yds 2TD's, 1INT, 1 sack and 0 fumbles.


So how is Ben so much better?

Dino 6 Rings
12-08-2008, 02:51 PM
And let's look at what Ben did vs the same Eagles, shall we?


13/25 131yds 0TD's, 1INT, 8 sacks and 2 lost fumbles.




Yeah, Ben owns Eli's ass! (sarcasm if I wasn't laying it on thick enough) And how about the same NYG vs PHI at Philly.

Eli 17/31 191yds 2TD's, 1INT, 1 sack and 0 fumbles.


So how is Ben so much better?


Look at me, I'm so important...I'm bashing the Steelers starting qb in every thread I possibly can. Pay attention to me.

Carreer.

Ben
70 games 14,289 yards. 98 Tds 66 ints

Eli
70 games 14,132 yards 97 tds 72 ints

Go look at real stats and get back to me.

fansince'76
12-08-2008, 02:55 PM
Look at me, I'm so important...I'm bashing the Steelers starting qb in every thread I possibly can. Pay attention to me.

Carreer.

Ben
70 games 14,289 yards. 98 Tds 66 ints

Eli
70 games 14,132 yards 97 tds 72 ints

Go look at real stats and get back to me.

He's barking up the wrong tree - I'm not responding to him anymore. Have fun, Dino.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
12-08-2008, 02:56 PM
Look at me, I'm so important...I'm bashing the Steelers starting qb in every thread I possibly can. Pay attention to me.

Carreer.

Ben
70 games 14,289 yards. 98 Tds 66 ints

Eli
70 games 14,132 yards 97 tds 72 ints

Go look at real stats and get back to me.

Wow, I didn't know Eli threw so many INTS!?

cubanstogie
12-08-2008, 02:58 PM
And let's look at what Ben did vs the same Eagles, shall we?


13/25 131yds 0TD's, 1INT, 8 sacks and 2 lost fumbles.




Yeah, Ben owns Eli's ass! (sarcasm if I wasn't laying it on thick enough) And how about the same NYG vs PHI at Philly.

Eli 17/31 191yds 2TD's, 1INT, 1 sack and 0 fumbles.


So how is Ben so much better?

you are obviously a stat geek. Get past them, Ben was sacked 8 times and evaded many others that day. Let me guess you think Ben held on to the ball too long and were his fault.
Onto another comparison, Ben vs Romo. Romo had more time to throw overall yesterday I would say. Our D was phenominal but Romo had time to throw on many occasions. The weather was definitely a factor for both QB's but Ben threw the ball much better. Ben faces pressure every game and comes through in clutch, Romo folded like a cheap suit with our "B" pressure, if we pressured him like Cassell he would have thrown 5 pics. You can have Brees, Rivers, Eli, Palmer and all the other guys you gush over, I'll take winner anytime.

The_WARDen
12-08-2008, 02:58 PM
Look at me, I'm so important...I'm bashing the Steelers starting qb in every thread I possibly can. Pay attention to me.

Carreer.

Ben
70 games 14,289 yards. 98 Tds 66 ints

Eli
70 games 14,132 yards 97 tds 72 ints

Go look at real stats and get back to me.

there was actually a thread about the new Clowns coach in the NFL forums that he somehow turned into a Ben bashing session. Now that's impressive.

steelreserve
12-08-2008, 03:04 PM
When the Steelers win, ESPN will tell you it is usually because the other team made mistakes. When they lose it is because the other team "dominated" the Steelers.

Hell, we have people on this board who say pretty much the same things.

Not me. When we lose, I say it's because of Parker.

NYC SteelersFan
12-08-2008, 03:17 PM
Not me. When we lose, I say it's because of Parker.

lol

LambertIsGod58
12-08-2008, 03:20 PM
Look at me, I'm so important...I'm bashing the Steelers starting qb in every thread I possibly can. Pay attention to me.

Carreer.

Ben
70 games 14,289 yards. 98 Tds 66 ints

Eli
70 games 14,132 yards 97 tds 72 ints

Go look at real stats and get back to me.

those stats are virtually the same....but yet people claim that Eli blows? So I guess Ben does too, right?

cubanstogie
12-08-2008, 03:25 PM
those stats are virtually the same....but yet people claim that Eli blows? So I guess Ben does too, right?

I don't think many claim Eli blows since the middle of last year. Anyone whe tries is being ignorant.

fansince'76
12-08-2008, 03:29 PM
I don't think many claim Eli blows since the middle of last year. Anyone whe tries is being ignorant.

Nobody's knobslobbing Ben in these threads either (I've seen about 1000 times more criticism than praise for him around here, and not just this week, but every week), but don't let facts stand in the way there, Cuban.

cubanstogie
12-08-2008, 03:39 PM
Nobody's knobslobbing Ben in these threads either (I've seen about 1000 times more criticism than praise for him around here), but don't let facts stand in the way there, Cuban.

I think we are banging our head against the wall trying to get our points across to this guy. He likes to think Eli better because of this last year, when Ben overall is obviously better. Its like Janet Jackson, what have you done for me lately. Well 10-3 isn't good enough with the toughest schedule in the league. Fact of the matter is Eli was pathetic prior to middle of last year, so this guy is the epitome of a bandwagoner. I agree no one knobslobbing, just some of us are appreciative we have a great QB who along with the D is the one producing when they have to.

NYC SteelersFan
12-08-2008, 04:11 PM
those stats are virtually the same....but yet people claim that Eli blows? So I guess Ben does too, right?

The numbers are virtually the same EXCEPT FOR QB rating which takes everything into account, key stats such as total attempts and completions, average yards per attempt and also completion %.

Roethlisberger-
89.9 QB rating
7.9 yards per attempt
62.5 Cmp%
1,812 total attempts
1,133 total completions


Eli-
76.4 QB rating
6.4 yards per attempt
55.8 Cmp%
2,203 total attempts
1,230 total completions

Eli has thrown the ball 391 more times to complete 97 more passes than Roethlisberger for his career. Do you know how disgusting those numbers are?

And ABSOLUTELY MOST IMPORTANTLY ELI has had the 2nd/3rd best receiver in the league for the past 3 3/4 years out of 4 3/4 years.

NYC SteelersFan
12-08-2008, 04:15 PM
IFact of the matter is Eli was pathetic prior to middle of last year, so this guy is the epitome of a bandwagoner.

Not even the middle of last year Cuban, that is a misconception that a lot of people seem to have. Look at the game logs, Eli was the same pathetic QB for the entire year up until the last game of the season. If he had been good for half the season he wouldn't have finished the year with a 73.9 QB rating which is just awful. Last year was actually his second worst year statistically. He threw the most INT's of any other year prior.

fansince'76
12-08-2008, 04:18 PM
Not even the middle of last year Cuban, that is a misconception that a lot of people seem to have. Look at the game logs, Eli was the same pathetic QB for the entire year up until the last game of the season. If he had been good for half the season he wouldn't have finished the year with a 73.9 QB rating which is just awful. Last year was actually his second worst year statistically. He threw the most INT's of any other year prior.

One drive (and particularly one play) in one game is why Eli is even discussed in this light. That's cool. A certain guarantee that was delivered on in a much earlier "edition" of the same game is the only reason Namath is in the HoF. It is what it is.

NYC SteelersFan
12-08-2008, 04:21 PM
Wow, I didn't know Eli threw so many INTS!?

How awful he really is is never emphasized by the media because of Peyton and Archie's media relations/connections. If you don't watch Giant games or actually stare at stats, you would never know how miserable Eli Manning is, more so considering he was an over-hyped 1st rounder who rejected the orginal team that drafted him and promised not to sign unless they traded they're pick so he could go to NY (where the real money was).

That is a big part of the media's reaction to Roethlisberger. Not one "analyst" mentioned his name for the draft. It was all Eli and River, Eli and Rivers. And then this guy comes out of no where with his ridiculous stats and winning a Superbowl and they all look like idiots. That is why Roethlisberger is still the "game manager" and Eli and Rivers are "great" QB's, it's a joke.

NYC SteelersFan
12-08-2008, 04:27 PM
One drive (and particularly one play) in one game is why Eli is even discussed in this light. That's cool. A certain guarantee that was delivered on in a much earlier "edition" of the same game is the only reason Namath is in the HoF. It is what it is.

And remember, so should Superbowl stat guru Lambert, on that very drive, Asante Samuel's drops what is probably his first dropped INT of the season, a miserable pass by Eli. And then David Tyree makes a miracle catch, second to the immaculate reception, another miserable pass by Eli 5 feet over a receiver's head who is triple covered. But he throws a TD pass to the 2nd/3rd best receiver in the league, a throw 25 out of 32 QB's could've made with their eyes closed and all is well and Eli is a "great" QB, complete and utter joke.

But like you said about Namath being in the HoF with a 65.5 QB rating, it is what it is.

fansince'76
12-08-2008, 04:33 PM
And remember, so should Superbowl stat guru Lambert, on that very drive, Asante Samuel's drops what is probably his first dropped INT of the season, a miserable pass by Eli. And then David Tyree makes a miracle catch, second to the immaculate reception, another miserable pass by Eli 5 feet over a receiver's head who is triple covered. But he throws a TD pass to the 2nd/3rd best receiver in the league, a throw 25 out of 32 QB's could've made with their eyes closed and all is well and Eli is a "great" QB, complete and utter joke.

But like you said about Namath being in the HoF with a 65.5 QB rating, it is what it is.

Absolutely - let me put it this way - you think Bradshaw's career numbers were utter shit? Take a look at Namath's - he had 50+ more career INTs than TDs. All Manning has to do is be mediocre and stick around for the next 10 years or so (and if they're all spent in the Big Apple, all the better) and his ticket to the HoF is already punched because of XLII and his last name and lineage.

Dino 6 Rings
12-08-2008, 04:41 PM
Terry Bradshaw is the greatest QB ever so it isn't fair to compare others to him.

fansince'76
12-08-2008, 04:42 PM
Terry Bradshaw is the greatest QB ever so it isn't fair to compare others to him.

Bradshaw won 4 rings on the backs of Franco, Rocky and the D. :rolleyes:

DarkRaven
12-08-2008, 04:49 PM
Terry Bradshaw is the greatest QB ever so it isn't fair to compare others to him.

What are you smoking up there in Pittsburgh? This is officially the dumbest thing I have ever read.

cubanstogie
12-08-2008, 04:52 PM
What are you smoking up there in Pittsburgh? This is officially the dumbest thing I have ever read.

I guess you guys don't use sarcasm in Baltimore.

Dino 6 Rings
12-08-2008, 04:55 PM
What are you smoking up there in Pittsburgh? This is officially the dumbest thing I have ever read.

Oh geesh...

Ok, here's the deal Raven fan...It is well know amongst most of the folks on this board that anytime Terry Bradshaw's name is mentioned, I show my love for Terry Bradshaw...

But as for it being the dumbest thing ever...here you go in a nut shell
THE USA is the greatest country in the world.
The NFL is the greatest sport in the USA
The Steelers of the 70s have been voted many times the Greatest Franchise ever in the NFL
The most important position on any team is the QB

So it can be said that Terry Bradshaw was the most important player on the greatest team in this history of the world. That makes Terry Bradshaw not only the greatest QB ever to live, but the greatest and most important athlete in the history of human kind.

Now, laugh and enjoy the Terry Bradshaw love my friend.

cubanstogie
12-08-2008, 04:58 PM
Not even the middle of last year Cuban, that is a misconception that a lot of people seem to have. Look at the game logs, Eli was the same pathetic QB for the entire year up until the last game of the season. If he had been good for half the season he wouldn't have finished the year with a 73.9 QB rating which is just awful. Last year was actually his second worst year statistically. He threw the most INT's of any other year prior.

I must admit, I don't look at stats all that much. So yeah maybe I am giving him too much credit for last year. My point was more about how crappy he was the first 3 years than how good he is now. Believe me, I am no fan of Eli but it does seem like he is more composed and doesn't make as many blunders.

steel striker
12-08-2008, 05:10 PM
Lambertisgod,

Why all the hate for Ben? Yet you fail to mention about the oline in that loss to the eagles. You know I don't think there is another qb in the league that could stay alive behind our oline earlier this season. Yet every chance you get you bash Ben and, should we remind you that your Favre has lost to those power houses known as the raiders, niners and that stoud defense in denver. Yet you continue to claim you are a fan of this team but, you sure don'y show it.

All Ben has done is win and, he is a gamer. No doubt this year the defense has played lights out and, yesterday the defense bailed us out. You talk abot Favre alot and you know he is the all leader in int's. So who side are you actually on here? Do we need to bring up the qb's before who were not so good? I'm when we win our next SB and, Be could play perfect you would somehow find a way to bash him like you usally do. Have a good day.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
12-08-2008, 05:21 PM
Bench Ben, put Maddox back in, or Tomzak, or Stewart...

fansince'76
12-08-2008, 05:22 PM
Bench Ben, put Maddox back in, or Tomzak, or Stewart...

I want Kent Graham! Get it done, Rooneys! :chuckle: