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View Full Version : Kirwans formula says Harrison defensive MVP


tony hipchest
12-04-2008, 10:37 AM
ranks porter #2 and woodley tied 3rd with d. ware :chuckle:

great picture of harrison and the informative indicator chart has harrison ahead by a whopping 8 "points".

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80d02ea6&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true


James Harrison's all-around presence on the field puts him at the top of Pat Kirwan's list of defensive MVP candidates.

Most Valuable Player discussions can dominate my radio show on Sirius, with a number of interesting candidates on offense and defense. I thought I would make an attempt to quantify the defensive candidates so an informed conversation can follow this report.

There are a number of good pass rushers this season, a point that was driven home this weekend as the top nine pass rushers collected 16.5 sacks. Jared Allen, Mario Williams and DeMarcus Ware each had three sacks and the race for sack leader is much more intense than last year. Allen led the NFL with 15.5 sacks last year, a number nearly matched this season by Ware (15) with four games remaining. Eight other players could match Allen's mark from 2007.

But are sacks enough of a measure as to whom the defensive MVP should be? I think it is important to look deeper into the overall production for that answer.

Here's a look at the top nine outside pass rushers, taking into account the following factors: sacks, quarterback knockdowns, quarterback hurries, tackles, forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, safeties, passes defended, touchdowns scored, and interceptions. Players are deducted a point for roughing the passer and personal foul penalties. Tackles are not an official statistic because they are subjective, so I awarded one point for every 10 tackles. These 11 categories should give us a pretty good indication of who is the defensive MVP.

Of course, a defensive tackle such as Albert Haynesworth will get worthy consideration and a few late risers like Robert Mathis or Dwight Freeney may be in the discussion by the end of the season. But here are the top nine players when you add up the points. After looking at how the list finished up, I'm comfortable with the standings at this point. With four games left, however, that can still change.

An indicator of defensive MVP
Name Sack KD Hurry Tackle FF Rec. Safety PD TD Int. Pen. Total
James Harrison 14 18.5 8 8* 6* 0 1 4* 0 1* -2 58.5
Joey Porter 14.5 24.5* 5.5 4 3 1 0 0 0 0 -2 50.5
LaMarr Woodley 11.5 17 7.5 5 2 4* 0 3 1* 1* -2 50
DeMarcus Ware 15 21.5 4.5 6 2 1 0 0 0 0 0* 50
John Abraham 12.5 18.5 10 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 0* 47
Jared Allen 11 18 11* 4 2 0 2* 0 0 0 -3 45
Julius Peppers 11 17 10.5 4 5 0 0 0 0 0 -3 44.5
Justin Tuck 11.5 13.5 8 5 3 0 0 2 1* 1* -3 42
Mario Willilams 11 16.5 7 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 -1 41.5


The top four players all line up in the 3-4 defense, and their ability to drop into coverage does help their overall numbers. But their sack numbers, quarterback knockdowns and hurries really show that they attack a lot more than they drop into coverage. I made note of the leaders in each category (*) and Pittsburgh's James Harrison not only had the best point total but he excelled in four categories.

You may like someone on this list over Harrison, and that's okay, but these are the numbers that make for a good argument either way you go with the defensive MVP.


the comments section is pretty funny. hes called a steeler homer and people question why charles woodson isnt considered. :laughing:

revefsreleets
12-04-2008, 11:13 AM
Kirwan would have more cred if he shaved that cheesy 70's porn star 'stache....

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-04-2008, 12:02 PM
The other thing that doesnt factor into any of those stats is how Harrison stuffs O linemen and allows other players to make tackles.

I dont think he got a sack in the Bengals game, but repeatedly rushed the inside gap and allowed outside blitzers to get pressure.

Objectively speaking, Harrison has had the best year of any player in the NFL this season. IMO.

RoethlisBURGHer
12-04-2008, 03:09 PM
I Harrison doesn't win DPOY, I am going to be really pissed.

14.5 sacks, 80 tackles, 1 INT, 1 Saftey, 6 Forced Fumbles.

By the end of the season he'll very likely have a sack total in the 20's, over 100 tackles, possibly another INT or two, and I am sure he will have more forced fumbles.

Preacher
12-04-2008, 03:43 PM
I Harrison doesn't win DPOY, I am going to be really pissed.

14.5 sacks, 80 tackles, 1 INT, 1 Saftey, 6 Forced Fumbles.

By the end of the season he'll very likely have a sack total in the 20's, over 100 tackles, possibly another INT or two, and I am sure he will have more forced fumbles.

I still think he won't win it because he has a support cast of Woodley, Big Snack, Farrior, Polamalu, and Taylor. All of whom deserve discussion as one of the top players at their position.

I think it will go to someone who is a bit under Harrison, but did it on an otherwise mediocre defense.

Steelersfan4life0655
12-04-2008, 05:52 PM
i would love to see this happen. dude has paid his dues and deserves it:tt03:

steelreserve
12-04-2008, 06:00 PM
I Harrison doesn't win DPOY, I am going to be really pissed.

Hey, if he doesn't win it, that's fine by me. I mean, yeah, he wins an award and gets some recognition, that's nice. But it would make him almost impossible to re-sign.

lilyoder6
12-04-2008, 06:09 PM
i can see the winner being either of the top 4 he has right now... the way these lb's are playing this yr i doubt someone can take over 1 of these 4

markymarc
12-05-2008, 07:08 AM
At least some of the media talking heads get it right every once and awhile. Great article on the defensive MVP.

fansince'76
12-05-2008, 07:15 AM
Objectively speaking, Harrison has had the best year of any player in the NFL this season. IMO.

I agree - I think this year is very similar to 1986 when Lawrence Taylor won NFL MVP. IMO, Harrison's play has overshadowed pretty much every and any offensive player's performance this year, much the way LT's did in '86. After all, when Kerry Collins is seriously being discussed for NFL MVP honors, what does that say? That being said, I doubt Harrison wins NFL MVP (although a very strong case could be made for him winning it). I will be pretty ticked off if he doesn't get DPOY, though.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-05-2008, 10:47 AM
I dont think Harrison's play is really as dominating as LT in 86. Honestly, when most opposing QB's line up they are still looking for #43 in B&G.

I guess the one thing is who offensively is having a great season on a winning team? There was talk of Warner and Brees earlier, but I dont think they are candidates any more. You are right.....Kerry Collins?? Phyllis Rivers?? Michael Turner?

fansince'76
12-05-2008, 12:05 PM
I dont think Harrison's play is really as dominating as LT in 86. Honestly, when most opposing QB's line up they are still looking for #43 in B&G.

I guess the one thing is who offensively is having a great season on a winning team? There was talk of Warner and Brees earlier, but I dont think they are candidates any more. You are right.....Kerry Collins?? Phyllis Rivers?? Michael Turner?

I agree that he hasn't been as dominating as LT was in '86, my point was that nobody has really been having an outstanding enough year on the offensive side of the ball to push Harrison out of the picture for possible NFL MVP. Like I said, I don't think he'll win it anyway. He should get DPOY, though, IMO.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-05-2008, 03:43 PM
He should get DPOY, though, IMO. I agree, but remember when Farrior got shafted a few seasons ago and Ed Reed got it.......Tons of media bias could sink him.

RoethlisBURGHer
12-05-2008, 04:19 PM
Unfortunatly for defensive players, Most Valuable Player has become just an offensive award.

When was the last time a defensive player got serious consideration for League MVP?

Lawrence Taylor? Reggie White?

markymarc
12-05-2008, 08:42 PM
I agree, but remember when Farrior got shafted a few seasons ago and Ed Reed got it.......Tons of media bias could sink him.

Yea and that was total B.S. with Ed Reed getting it that year. Farrior had a tremendous year statistically and got robbed. No question Farrior was the defensive MVP that year.