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LambertIsGod58
12-08-2008, 11:57 AM
I just wanted to point this out to all of you who think Roethlisberger is still an elite QB. My premise is the same as Chuck Noll. That is being a today person. What you did yesterday doesn't matter. Or in the case, the last 4 seasons. Only one of which was an elite season IMO. If you think being ranked 23rd, behind two rookie QB's and a supposed washed up 40yr old with a new team, is elite....God Bless you for not having high expectations in your franchise QB. I'd like to think we could get alot more for $100 million dollars. I don't route against Ben.....it's actually just the opposite. I am first and foremost a STEELERS fan. I'd like nothing more than for Ben to be the elite QB you all think he is. I just don't. Not after ONE elite year. And if you look back at all the stats, you'll see that the running game and defense were all ranked in the top 5 when we won the SB and the season we went 15-1. BTW NYC, Eli is still a better QB even after yesterday. And even if it weren't the case, Eli is improving while Ben seems to be regressing.


Passing Leaders
NAME COM ATT PCT YDS YPA LNG TD TD% INT INT% SK SYD RAT
1 P. Rivers QB, SDG 242 379 63.9 3169 8.36 67 26 6.9 10 2.6 19.0 119 102.0
2 K. Warner QB, ARI 347 505 68.7 4020 7.96 79 25 5.0 12 2.4 20.0 150 99.1
3 Tony Romo QB, DAL 211 336 62.8 2769 8.24 75 22 6.5 11 3.3 11.0 68 96.9
4 Drew Brees QB, NOR 329 503 65.4 4100 8.15 84 26 5.2 14 2.8 10.0 67 96.2
5 C. Pennington QB, MIA 261 393 66.4 3062 7.79 80 12 3.1 6 1.5 22.0 108 93.7
6 M. Schaub QB, HOU 182 269 67.7 2176 8.09 61 12 4.5 9 3.3 17.0 112 93.1
7 J. Garcia QB, TAM 182 271 67.2 1902 7.02 47 8 3.0 3 1.1 15.0 74 92.5
8 A. Rodgers QB, GNB 276 434 63.6 3192 7.36 63 22 5.1 11 2.5 27.0 172 92.1
9 Matt Ryan QB, ATL 227 366 62.0 2940 8.03 70 14 3.8 7 1.9 13.0 80 92.0
10 E. Manning QB, NYG 243 398 61.1 2747 6.90 48 20 5.0 8 2.0 15.0 101 90.1
11 Jay Cutler QB, DEN 305 489 62.4 3679 7.52 93 23 4.7 14 2.9 7.0 47 89.2
12 P. Manning QB, IND 307 477 64.4 3225 6.76 75 22 4.6 12 2.5 12.0 79 88.8
13 B. Favre QB, NYJ 288 421 68.4 2845 6.76 56 20 4.8 15 3.6 26.0 176 88.2
14 J. Campbell QB, WAS 262 415 63.1 2778 6.69 67 11 2.7 6 1.4 34.0 236 85.4
15 M. Cassel QB, NWE 283 442 64.0 3052 6.91 66 14 3.2 10 2.3 42.0 194 85.3
16 D. McNabb QB, PHI 281 469 59.9 3221 6.87 90 19 4.1 10 2.1 19.0 121 85.2
17 T. Edwards QB, BUF 214 324 66.0 2378 7.34 51 10 3.1 10 3.1 20.0 125 85.1
18 Kyle Orton QB, CHI 212 361 58.7 2414 6.69 65 15 4.2 8 2.2 21.0 134 83.5
19 J. Delhomme QB, CAR 190 329 57.8 2427 7.38 65 12 3.6 9 2.7 18.0 116 81.7
20 K. Collins QB, TEN 206 351 58.7 2280 6.50 56 11 3.1 6 1.7 7.0 50 81.4
21 Joe Flacco QB, BAL 212 352 60.2 2410 6.85 70 13 3.7 10 2.8 23.0 208 81.3
22 D. Garrard QB, JAC 272 436 62.4 2926 6.71 35 11 2.5 10 2.3 36.0 254 80.9
23 B. Roethlisberger QB, PIT 225 376 59.8 2616 6.96 65 14 3.7 12 3.2 38.0 230 80.1
24 T. Thigpen QB, KAN 172 315 54.6 1926 6.11 56 14 4.4 8 2.5 22.0 152 77.3
25 G. Frerotte QB, MIN 178 301 59.1 2157 7.17 99 12 4.0 15 5.0 29.0 164 73.7
26 J. O'Sullivan QB, SFO 128 220 58.2 1678 7.63 63 8 3.6 11 5.0 32.0 197 73.6
27 J. Russell QB, OAK 149 290 51.4 1797 6.20 84 7 2.4 6 2.1 27.0 170 70.1
28 M. Bulger QB, STL 194 340 57.1 2056 6.05 80 8 2.4 12 3.5 31.0 213 68.0
29 R. Fitzpatrick QB, CIN 182 304 59.9 1512 4.97 46 6 2.0 9 3.0 35.0 184 66.9
30 D. Anderson QB, CLE 142 283 50.2 1615 5.71 70 9 3.2 8 2.8 14.0 87 66.5
31 M. Hasselbeck QB, SEA 109 209 52.2 1216 5.82 34 5 2.4 10 4.8 19.0 119 57.8

The Duke
12-08-2008, 12:14 PM
So wait, you think Trent Edwards, Matt Shaub, Matt Cassel etc are all better than ben? basing this off QB Rating, one of the most overrated stats? you are way off man

LambertIsGod58
12-08-2008, 12:29 PM
So wait, you think Trent Edwards, Matt Shaub, Matt Cassel etc are all better than ben? basing this off QB Rating, one of the most overrated stats? you are way off man

Hey man, I'm only arguing this case based on the arguments I get from people. But if it's not his QB rating or stats, what makes him elite?

T.Richardson
12-08-2008, 12:39 PM
Hey man, I'm only arguing this case based on the arguments I get from people. But if it's not his QB rating or stats, what makes him elite?

They are basing it off last year.

tony hipchest
12-08-2008, 12:41 PM
:yawn:

here ya go. :cookie:

:coffee:

Dino 6 Rings
12-08-2008, 12:45 PM
That's a nice list.

Seems that only 4 of the people on that list have Rings on their fingers though.

Ben being one of them.

In a big spot, with the game on the line, I like our chances with Ben. Every single time.

Defense lost the game last year against the Jags.

Ben gets us Wins. Bottom line.

Is he Montana, Nope. Is he Marino, Nope. Is he Elway or Bradshaw, Nope and Nope.

Is he Odonnell, Stewart, Maddox, Tomczak, Brister, Malone or Stoudt? Thank Fcking Goodnesss NO!

I'll take Ben. If you don't like him, that's cool. But I bet you got up and cheered like a fool when he hit that huge pass play to Holmes or threw that ball to Miller that tied the game.

ShutDown24
12-08-2008, 01:01 PM
I just wanted to point this out to all of you who think Roethlisberger is still an elite QB. My premise is the same as Chuck Noll. That is being a today person. What you did yesterday doesn't matter. Or in the case, the last 4 seasons. Only one of which was an elite season IMO. If you think being ranked 23rd, behind two rookie QB's and a supposed washed up 40yr old with a new team, is elite....God Bless you for not having high expectations in your franchise QB. I'd like to think we could get alot more for $100 million dollars. I don't route against Ben.....it's actually just the opposite. I am first and foremost a STEELERS fan. I'd like nothing more than for Ben to be the elite QB you all think he is. I just don't. Not after ONE elite year. And if you look back at all the stats, you'll see that the running game and defense were all ranked in the top 5 when we won the SB and the season we went 15-1. BTW NYC, Eli is still a better QB even after yesterday. And even if it weren't the case, Eli is improving while Ben seems to be regressing.


Passing Leaders
NAME COM ATT PCT YDS YPA LNG TD TD% INT INT% SK SYD RAT
1 P. Rivers QB, SDG 242 379 63.9 3169 8.36 67 26 6.9 10 2.6 19.0 119 102.0
2 K. Warner QB, ARI 347 505 68.7 4020 7.96 79 25 5.0 12 2.4 20.0 150 99.1
3 Tony Romo QB, DAL 211 336 62.8 2769 8.24 75 22 6.5 11 3.3 11.0 68 96.9
4 Drew Brees QB, NOR 329 503 65.4 4100 8.15 84 26 5.2 14 2.8 10.0 67 96.2
5 C. Pennington QB, MIA 261 393 66.4 3062 7.79 80 12 3.1 6 1.5 22.0 108 93.7
6 M. Schaub QB, HOU 182 269 67.7 2176 8.09 61 12 4.5 9 3.3 17.0 112 93.1
7 J. Garcia QB, TAM 182 271 67.2 1902 7.02 47 8 3.0 3 1.1 15.0 74 92.5
8 A. Rodgers QB, GNB 276 434 63.6 3192 7.36 63 22 5.1 11 2.5 27.0 172 92.1
9 Matt Ryan QB, ATL 227 366 62.0 2940 8.03 70 14 3.8 7 1.9 13.0 80 92.0
10 E. Manning QB, NYG 243 398 61.1 2747 6.90 48 20 5.0 8 2.0 15.0 101 90.1
11 Jay Cutler QB, DEN 305 489 62.4 3679 7.52 93 23 4.7 14 2.9 7.0 47 89.2
12 P. Manning QB, IND 307 477 64.4 3225 6.76 75 22 4.6 12 2.5 12.0 79 88.8
13 B. Favre QB, NYJ 288 421 68.4 2845 6.76 56 20 4.8 15 3.6 26.0 176 88.2
14 J. Campbell QB, WAS 262 415 63.1 2778 6.69 67 11 2.7 6 1.4 34.0 236 85.4
15 M. Cassel QB, NWE 283 442 64.0 3052 6.91 66 14 3.2 10 2.3 42.0 194 85.3
16 D. McNabb QB, PHI 281 469 59.9 3221 6.87 90 19 4.1 10 2.1 19.0 121 85.2
17 T. Edwards QB, BUF 214 324 66.0 2378 7.34 51 10 3.1 10 3.1 20.0 125 85.1
18 Kyle Orton QB, CHI 212 361 58.7 2414 6.69 65 15 4.2 8 2.2 21.0 134 83.5
19 J. Delhomme QB, CAR 190 329 57.8 2427 7.38 65 12 3.6 9 2.7 18.0 116 81.7
20 K. Collins QB, TEN 206 351 58.7 2280 6.50 56 11 3.1 6 1.7 7.0 50 81.4
21 Joe Flacco QB, BAL 212 352 60.2 2410 6.85 70 13 3.7 10 2.8 23.0 208 81.3
22 D. Garrard QB, JAC 272 436 62.4 2926 6.71 35 11 2.5 10 2.3 36.0 254 80.9
23 B. Roethlisberger QB, PIT 225 376 59.8 2616 6.96 65 14 3.7 12 3.2 38.0 230 80.1
24 T. Thigpen QB, KAN 172 315 54.6 1926 6.11 56 14 4.4 8 2.5 22.0 152 77.3
25 G. Frerotte QB, MIN 178 301 59.1 2157 7.17 99 12 4.0 15 5.0 29.0 164 73.7
26 J. O'Sullivan QB, SFO 128 220 58.2 1678 7.63 63 8 3.6 11 5.0 32.0 197 73.6
27 J. Russell QB, OAK 149 290 51.4 1797 6.20 84 7 2.4 6 2.1 27.0 170 70.1
28 M. Bulger QB, STL 194 340 57.1 2056 6.05 80 8 2.4 12 3.5 31.0 213 68.0
29 R. Fitzpatrick QB, CIN 182 304 59.9 1512 4.97 46 6 2.0 9 3.0 35.0 184 66.9
30 D. Anderson QB, CLE 142 283 50.2 1615 5.71 70 9 3.2 8 2.8 14.0 87 66.5
31 M. Hasselbeck QB, SEA 109 209 52.2 1216 5.82 34 5 2.4 10 4.8 19.0 119 57.8


You're a dumbass.

LambertIsGod58
12-08-2008, 01:02 PM
You're a dumbass.

why? because you don't deal with reality?

Dino 6 Rings
12-08-2008, 01:03 PM
Most Wins for a QB in his first 5 years.

Thats not on your little list.

Dizzle43
12-08-2008, 01:04 PM
We need to start running the ball. But we can't because we probably have the worst offensive lines in the league. Thank goodness we have Ben to extend the play and avoid the rush. Our recievers aren't doing a great job of getting open which makes it a lot easier for the QB. We are lucky to have Ben. If you don't know that by now then you never will.

MACH1
12-08-2008, 01:05 PM
That's a nice list.

Seems that only 4 of the people on that list have Rings on their fingers though.

Ben being one of them.


Rings don't count in the stats. :rolleyes:

As we all know stats are what really counts. Stats win championships, just go ask the seahawks. :doh:

Dino 6 Rings
12-08-2008, 01:06 PM
Um...technically...Rings are all I care about.

Hence my name.

Dino 6 Rings
12-08-2008, 01:07 PM
Ben got me a Ring. He's ok in my book.

Neil Odenell, Threw my other Ring to the same guy twice.

I Prefer Ben.

LambertIsGod58
12-08-2008, 01:10 PM
Um...technically...Rings are all I care about.

Hence my name.


Then why the Steelers.....? Why not Dallas? both have 5 rings....does that mean you move on if another teams gets 6? As you said, all you are about are rings.....

T.Richardson
12-08-2008, 01:12 PM
Then why the Steelers.....? Why not Dallas? both have 5 rings....does that mean you move on if another teams gets 6? As you said, all you are about are rings.....

Would you rather have O'Donnell, the QB with the one of the lowest Interception ratio's of all time?

SteelMember
12-08-2008, 01:15 PM
I, for one, have listened to more than enough or your diatribe. There is more than enough in other threads, and absolutely no reason to persue this any further by starting new ones. If you are looking for converts to your opinion, your going about it the wrong way...if it was ever possible to begin with. Pushing people away, all the while saying join me, "I am right"???

Why can't you just let it go. :noidea:

SuzyPeppercorn
12-08-2008, 01:19 PM
Stats are overrated. The only stat that matters is the number in the W column. Ben wins football games period. He finds ways to win the game. A few bounces go the steelers way in the first half against the cowboys and we would have comfortably won the game.

Does he make bonehead plays. Of course. So does everyone else. Have you seen the things Romo has done in the past couple of years? Botched hold in the playoffs anyone!!

Ben is an exciting qb to watch and wants to be in Steeler nation for the rest of his career. When the game is on the line i would much rather have the ball in Ben's hand then in Cassel's. What more do you want from Ben?

LambertIsGod58
12-08-2008, 01:22 PM
Would you rather have O'Donnell, the QB with the one of the lowest Interception ratio's of all time?

I'd like someone to perform....having the worst QB rating of 40 SB winning QB's isn't my idea of elite. Obviously, I want the win. But we both know that the running and defense won that title. And if you compare SB numbers, Ben didn't do anything different from O'Donnell. And please don't throw that rushing TD into this. Please....

T.Richardson
12-08-2008, 01:23 PM
I'd like someone to perform....having the worst QB rating of 40 SB winning QB's isn't my idea of elite. Obviously, I want the win. But we both know that the running and defense won that title. And if you compare SB numbers, Ben didn't do anything different from O'Donnell. And please don't throw that rushing TD into this. Please....

well at least Ben didnt throw two horrible ints.

LambertIsGod58
12-08-2008, 01:27 PM
I, for one, have listened to more than enough or your diatribe. There is more than enough in other threads, and absolutely no reason to persue this any further by starting new ones. If you are looking for converts to your opinion, your going about it the wrong way...if it was ever possible to begin with. Pushing people away, all the while saying join me, "I am right"???

Why can't you just let it go. :noidea:

so don't read it then.....simple, isn't it?

And if you really want an answer, I can't let it go b/c I'm tired, of reading all the Ben knobslobbering. If he was having the year he did last year, great. But the simple fact is that he's not. And as I said to you, I could simply not read it. But this is a STEELERS board. Not a Ben board....or so I thought. So if I have to continue seeing these type of threads, I can do the same. There's no player I love more than Lambert. Do you see my knobslobbing him every chance I get? No...

lilyoder6
12-08-2008, 01:28 PM
:blah: cry me a freaking river y don't u..


and on that list that is ahead of ben... how many of them as more wins this season??? only eli and collins...

u can go over and over all u want bout stats, but i'll take the wins and the SB ring/rings anyday over the stats...

MACH1
12-08-2008, 01:31 PM
Then why the Steelers.....? Why not Dallas? both have 5 rings....does that mean you move on if another teams gets 6? As you said, all you are about are rings.....

Are you going to move to one of the other teams with better qb stats? Why not San Diego? Then whoever has the top stats the week after? If stats are so important to you maybe you should move on to a "better" qb.

RunWillieRun
12-08-2008, 01:32 PM
Stats are almost as overrated as Big Ben....








wait wait wait....that was a joke.

A JOKE PEOPLE!


RELAX J-O-K-E.

MACH1
12-08-2008, 01:33 PM
:blah: cry me a freaking river y don't u..


and on that list that is ahead of ben... how many of them as more wins this season??? only eli and collins...

u can go over and over all u want bout stats, but i'll take the wins and the SB ring/rings anyday over the stats...

He should ask Marino how many rings his stats got him.

The_WARDen
12-08-2008, 01:34 PM
I just wanted to point this out to all of you who think Roethlisberger is still an elite QB. My premise is the same as Chuck Noll. That is being a today person. What you did yesterday doesn't matter. Or in the case, the last 4 seasons. Only one of which was an elite season IMO. If you think being ranked 23rd, behind two rookie QB's and a supposed washed up 40yr old with a new team, is elite....God Bless you for not having high expectations in your franchise QB. I'd like to think we could get alot more for $100 million dollars. I don't route against Ben.....it's actually just the opposite. I am first and foremost a STEELERS fan. I'd like nothing more than for Ben to be the elite QB you all think he is. I just don't. Not after ONE elite year. And if you look back at all the stats, you'll see that the running game and defense were all ranked in the top 5 when we won the SB and the season we went 15-1. BTW NYC, Eli is still a better QB even after yesterday. And even if it weren't the case, Eli is improving while Ben seems to be regressing.


Passing Leaders
NAME COM ATT PCT YDS YPA LNG TD TD% INT INT% SK SYD RAT
1 P. Rivers QB, SDG 242 379 63.9 3169 8.36 67 26 6.9 10 2.6 19.0 119 102.0
2 K. Warner QB, ARI 347 505 68.7 4020 7.96 79 25 5.0 12 2.4 20.0 150 99.1
3 Tony Romo QB, DAL 211 336 62.8 2769 8.24 75 22 6.5 11 3.3 11.0 68 96.9
4 Drew Brees QB, NOR 329 503 65.4 4100 8.15 84 26 5.2 14 2.8 10.0 67 96.2
5 C. Pennington QB, MIA 261 393 66.4 3062 7.79 80 12 3.1 6 1.5 22.0 108 93.7
6 M. Schaub QB, HOU 182 269 67.7 2176 8.09 61 12 4.5 9 3.3 17.0 112 93.1
7 J. Garcia QB, TAM 182 271 67.2 1902 7.02 47 8 3.0 3 1.1 15.0 74 92.5
8 A. Rodgers QB, GNB 276 434 63.6 3192 7.36 63 22 5.1 11 2.5 27.0 172 92.1
9 Matt Ryan QB, ATL 227 366 62.0 2940 8.03 70 14 3.8 7 1.9 13.0 80 92.0
10 E. Manning QB, NYG 243 398 61.1 2747 6.90 48 20 5.0 8 2.0 15.0 101 90.1
11 Jay Cutler QB, DEN 305 489 62.4 3679 7.52 93 23 4.7 14 2.9 7.0 47 89.2
12 P. Manning QB, IND 307 477 64.4 3225 6.76 75 22 4.6 12 2.5 12.0 79 88.8
13 B. Favre QB, NYJ 288 421 68.4 2845 6.76 56 20 4.8 15 3.6 26.0 176 88.2
14 J. Campbell QB, WAS 262 415 63.1 2778 6.69 67 11 2.7 6 1.4 34.0 236 85.4
15 M. Cassel QB, NWE 283 442 64.0 3052 6.91 66 14 3.2 10 2.3 42.0 194 85.3
16 D. McNabb QB, PHI 281 469 59.9 3221 6.87 90 19 4.1 10 2.1 19.0 121 85.2
17 T. Edwards QB, BUF 214 324 66.0 2378 7.34 51 10 3.1 10 3.1 20.0 125 85.1
18 Kyle Orton QB, CHI 212 361 58.7 2414 6.69 65 15 4.2 8 2.2 21.0 134 83.5
19 J. Delhomme QB, CAR 190 329 57.8 2427 7.38 65 12 3.6 9 2.7 18.0 116 81.7
20 K. Collins QB, TEN 206 351 58.7 2280 6.50 56 11 3.1 6 1.7 7.0 50 81.4
21 Joe Flacco QB, BAL 212 352 60.2 2410 6.85 70 13 3.7 10 2.8 23.0 208 81.3
22 D. Garrard QB, JAC 272 436 62.4 2926 6.71 35 11 2.5 10 2.3 36.0 254 80.9
23 B. Roethlisberger QB, PIT 225 376 59.8 2616 6.96 65 14 3.7 12 3.2 38.0 230 80.1
24 T. Thigpen QB, KAN 172 315 54.6 1926 6.11 56 14 4.4 8 2.5 22.0 152 77.3
25 G. Frerotte QB, MIN 178 301 59.1 2157 7.17 99 12 4.0 15 5.0 29.0 164 73.7
26 J. O'Sullivan QB, SFO 128 220 58.2 1678 7.63 63 8 3.6 11 5.0 32.0 197 73.6
27 J. Russell QB, OAK 149 290 51.4 1797 6.20 84 7 2.4 6 2.1 27.0 170 70.1
28 M. Bulger QB, STL 194 340 57.1 2056 6.05 80 8 2.4 12 3.5 31.0 213 68.0
29 R. Fitzpatrick QB, CIN 182 304 59.9 1512 4.97 46 6 2.0 9 3.0 35.0 184 66.9
30 D. Anderson QB, CLE 142 283 50.2 1615 5.71 70 9 3.2 8 2.8 14.0 87 66.5
31 M. Hasselbeck QB, SEA 109 209 52.2 1216 5.82 34 5 2.4 10 4.8 19.0 119 57.8

fess up! Did ben steal your girl?

LambertIsGod58
12-08-2008, 01:35 PM
fess up! Did ben steal your girl?

nah...she's not a Ben fan either.

LambertIsGod58
12-08-2008, 01:36 PM
He should ask Marino how many rings his stats got him.

Marino, though no rings, is and was a better QB than Ben. If you truly believe otherwise, so be it.

SteelMember
12-08-2008, 01:39 PM
so don't read it then.....simple, isn't it?

And if you really want an answer, I can't let it go b/c I'm tired, of reading all the Ben knobslobbering. If he was having the year he did last year, great. But the simple fact is that he's not. And as I said to you, I could simply not read it. But this is a STEELERS board. Not a Ben board....or so I thought. So if I have to continue seeing these type of threads, I can do the same. There's no player I love more than Lambert. Do you see my knobslobbing him every chance I get? No...

I could almost understand your point if you were responding to other posts in random threads, but it is you that are starting these threads.

You seem to have some real issues.

MACH1
12-08-2008, 01:40 PM
Marino, though no rings, is and was a better QB than Ben. If you truly believe otherwise, so be it.

Big stats no rings. :noidea:

Where did I say Ben was better than Marino. :noidea: Stats don't and never will win a championship.

OneForTheToe
12-08-2008, 01:43 PM
You might be right LambertIsGod58. With Ben being so "unFavre sexy" the Steelers will never get the votes they need to make the national championship game. Plus, now Ben has almost no shot at the heisman trophy. :scratchchin::headshake::crying03:

LambertIsGod58
12-08-2008, 01:44 PM
I could almost understand your point if you were responding to other posts in random threads, but it is you that are starting these threads.

You seem to have some real issues.


Agreed, but are you sending the same posts to people who starts the ones polishing Ben's knob? I doubt it.....

SteelMember
12-08-2008, 01:56 PM
Agreed, but are you sending the same posts to people who starts the ones polishing Ben's knob? I doubt it.....

Has someone started a turtle wax thread? I haven't seen it. :hunch:

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
12-08-2008, 01:58 PM
So who would you rather have then?

Would you rather have Favre in to throw another game/season ending interception in the clutch? No thank you.\

Ben may not be the best QB, but he is winning games...end of! I will take a win with Ben over a loss with a great QB any day.

BlastFurnace
12-08-2008, 02:19 PM
If Ben was ever gone, we would see...in great measures...how much he means to the team.

I have accepted he won't have Dan Marino's stats. Some of his throws will be ugly. He will get sacked when he should have thrown the ball away...but he is a gamer and I am thrilled that he is our QB.

Bottom line...we wouldn't be 10-3 without him...nor would we have our 5th Super Bowl trophy.

Dino 6 Rings
12-08-2008, 02:34 PM
so don't read it then.....simple, isn't it?

And if you really want an answer, I can't let it go b/c I'm tired, of reading all the Ben knobslobbering. If he was having the year he did last year, great. But the simple fact is that he's not. And as I said to you, I could simply not read it. But this is a STEELERS board. Not a Ben board....or so I thought. So if I have to continue seeing these type of threads, I can do the same. There's no player I love more than Lambert. Do you see my knobslobbing him every chance I get? No...

I think you have a secret crush on Big Ben. I wouldn't be surprised if you had his Fat Head up on your wall...maybe above your bed.

stlrtruck
12-08-2008, 02:36 PM
Bottom line is Ben is just like EVERY OTHER QB in this league. He has good days and he has bad days. I would definitely want him on my team if I was starting a franchise. Why, because he has intangibles that can't be measured by stats. He doesn't fold like a deck of cards when he gets touched. He can lower the hammer and give a hit - we've all seen it!

He's one tough SOB and I wouldn't want some pansy QB playing for the Steelers! Take all the stats and put them in a nice shiny box and do with them whatever you want. I've seen Ben win games on his own as well as lose them but he's not afraid to play the game - that in my mind makes him an elite QB.

Michael Keller
12-08-2008, 02:36 PM
Forget the word elite. My question is
list in order of preference the name(s) of QBs you would choose over Ben to play for this Steeler team as it currently is? Include inujred QB's . I 'll go first.

1-Tom Brady
2-Peyton Manning because he wouyld check off 90 percent of Bruce Arians calls
3-Ben

Other than Favre there is no one else close. Warner would set an interception record behind the Steelers offensive line.

Dino 6 Rings
12-08-2008, 02:38 PM
Doesn't Brady have a broken leg or something?

I'd take Ben, he fits our attitude of being rough and finding a way to win, even if it isn't easy.

The_WARDen
12-08-2008, 02:42 PM
Forget the word elite. My question is
list in order of preference the name(s) of QBs you would choose over Ben to play for this Steeler team as it currently is? Include inujred QB's . I 'll go first.

1-Tom Brady
2-Peyton Manning because he wouyld check off 90 percent of Bruce Arians calls
3-Ben

Other than Favre there is no one else close. Warner would set an interception record behind the Steelers offensive line.

Brady would get killed behind this line...Marsha folds like a deck of cards when facing a great deal of pressure and he would be doing it every game.

I agree with the Peyton selection, he'd get the play in, look at the sideline, laugh, and then change it to something that'd work.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
12-08-2008, 02:49 PM
I would disown the Steelers if Brady was their QB, he is such a douchebag...

LambertIsGod58
12-08-2008, 02:52 PM
I would disown the Steelers if Brady was their QB, he is such a douchebag...

But he's a winner...isn't he? And since it seems to be the scale on how to compare QB's on here, how many rings does he have?

plenewken
12-08-2008, 03:40 PM
Forget the word elite. My question is
list in order of preference the name(s) of QBs you would choose over Ben to play for this Steeler team as it currently is? Include inujred QB's . I 'll go first.

1-Tom Brady
2-Peyton Manning because he wouyld check off 90 percent of Bruce Arians calls
3-Ben

Other than Favre there is no one else close. Warner would set an interception record behind the Steelers offensive line.

I'd say Brees, then Brady then Favre then P. Manning .

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
12-08-2008, 03:44 PM
But he's a winner...isn't he? And since it seems to be the scale on how to compare QB's on here, how many rings does he have?

Yes, he is a *winner*, but still a douchebag.

Dino 6 Rings
12-08-2008, 03:44 PM
But he's a winner...isn't he? And since it seems to be the scale on how to compare QB's on here, how many rings does he have?

He got 3 by being a "game manager"

Heck Terry Bradshaw has better SuperBowl stats than Tom Brady.

So he's got lucky to be on a team with a great defense and good coaching...isn't that what you say about Ben?

Frankie3521
12-08-2008, 03:51 PM
I just wanted to point this out to all of you who think Roethlisberger is still an elite QB. My premise is the same as Chuck Noll. That is being a today person. What you did yesterday doesn't matter. Or in the case, the last 4 seasons. Only one of which was an elite season IMO. If you think being ranked 23rd, behind two rookie QB's and a supposed washed up 40yr old with a new team, is elite....God Bless you for not having high expectations in your franchise QB. I'd like to think we could get alot more for $100 million dollars. I don't route against Ben.....it's actually just the opposite. I am first and foremost a STEELERS fan. I'd like nothing more than for Ben to be the elite QB you all think he is. I just don't. Not after ONE elite year. And if you look back at all the stats, you'll see that the running game and defense were all ranked in the top 5 when we won the SB and the season we went 15-1. BTW NYC, Eli is still a better QB even after yesterday. And even if it weren't the case, Eli is improving while Ben seems to be regressing.


Passing Leaders
NAME COM ATT PCT YDS YPA LNG TD TD% INT INT% SK SYD RAT
1 P. Rivers QB, SDG 242 379 63.9 3169 8.36 67 26 6.9 10 2.6 19.0 119 102.0
2 K. Warner QB, ARI 347 505 68.7 4020 7.96 79 25 5.0 12 2.4 20.0 150 99.1
3 Tony Romo QB, DAL 211 336 62.8 2769 8.24 75 22 6.5 11 3.3 11.0 68 96.9
4 Drew Brees QB, NOR 329 503 65.4 4100 8.15 84 26 5.2 14 2.8 10.0 67 96.2
5 C. Pennington QB, MIA 261 393 66.4 3062 7.79 80 12 3.1 6 1.5 22.0 108 93.7
6 M. Schaub QB, HOU 182 269 67.7 2176 8.09 61 12 4.5 9 3.3 17.0 112 93.1
7 J. Garcia QB, TAM 182 271 67.2 1902 7.02 47 8 3.0 3 1.1 15.0 74 92.5
8 A. Rodgers QB, GNB 276 434 63.6 3192 7.36 63 22 5.1 11 2.5 27.0 172 92.1
9 Matt Ryan QB, ATL 227 366 62.0 2940 8.03 70 14 3.8 7 1.9 13.0 80 92.0
10 E. Manning QB, NYG 243 398 61.1 2747 6.90 48 20 5.0 8 2.0 15.0 101 90.1
11 Jay Cutler QB, DEN 305 489 62.4 3679 7.52 93 23 4.7 14 2.9 7.0 47 89.2
12 P. Manning QB, IND 307 477 64.4 3225 6.76 75 22 4.6 12 2.5 12.0 79 88.8
13 B. Favre QB, NYJ 288 421 68.4 2845 6.76 56 20 4.8 15 3.6 26.0 176 88.2
14 J. Campbell QB, WAS 262 415 63.1 2778 6.69 67 11 2.7 6 1.4 34.0 236 85.4
15 M. Cassel QB, NWE 283 442 64.0 3052 6.91 66 14 3.2 10 2.3 42.0 194 85.3
16 D. McNabb QB, PHI 281 469 59.9 3221 6.87 90 19 4.1 10 2.1 19.0 121 85.2
17 T. Edwards QB, BUF 214 324 66.0 2378 7.34 51 10 3.1 10 3.1 20.0 125 85.1
18 Kyle Orton QB, CHI 212 361 58.7 2414 6.69 65 15 4.2 8 2.2 21.0 134 83.5
19 J. Delhomme QB, CAR 190 329 57.8 2427 7.38 65 12 3.6 9 2.7 18.0 116 81.7
20 K. Collins QB, TEN 206 351 58.7 2280 6.50 56 11 3.1 6 1.7 7.0 50 81.4
21 Joe Flacco QB, BAL 212 352 60.2 2410 6.85 70 13 3.7 10 2.8 23.0 208 81.3
22 D. Garrard QB, JAC 272 436 62.4 2926 6.71 35 11 2.5 10 2.3 36.0 254 80.9
23 B. Roethlisberger QB, PIT 225 376 59.8 2616 6.96 65 14 3.7 12 3.2 38.0 230 80.1
24 T. Thigpen QB, KAN 172 315 54.6 1926 6.11 56 14 4.4 8 2.5 22.0 152 77.3
25 G. Frerotte QB, MIN 178 301 59.1 2157 7.17 99 12 4.0 15 5.0 29.0 164 73.7
26 J. O'Sullivan QB, SFO 128 220 58.2 1678 7.63 63 8 3.6 11 5.0 32.0 197 73.6
27 J. Russell QB, OAK 149 290 51.4 1797 6.20 84 7 2.4 6 2.1 27.0 170 70.1
28 M. Bulger QB, STL 194 340 57.1 2056 6.05 80 8 2.4 12 3.5 31.0 213 68.0
29 R. Fitzpatrick QB, CIN 182 304 59.9 1512 4.97 46 6 2.0 9 3.0 35.0 184 66.9
30 D. Anderson QB, CLE 142 283 50.2 1615 5.71 70 9 3.2 8 2.8 14.0 87 66.5
31 M. Hasselbeck QB, SEA 109 209 52.2 1216 5.82 34 5 2.4 10 4.8 19.0 119 57.8

Do you think that Rivers, Warner, and Romo are really the best 3 QB's in the league? I don't either. Chad Pennington is in the top 5, WTF. Ben wins us games, even with possibly the worst offensive line in the NFL. Passer rating means nothing to me, there are way to many variables you have to account for.

paw-n-maul-u
12-08-2008, 03:56 PM
lambert is god.

STFU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you are so stupid.

paw-n-maul-u
12-08-2008, 03:59 PM
The list of quarterbacks to take over ben is so short and so objective it doesn't really matter one way or another.

Havent we argued with this fool in like 5 different threads. He is such a clown. I swear he would make a thread after every Ben and Eli pass just to compare the two and prove his "point".

Arguing with a brick wall that will never let you win.

The_WARDen
12-08-2008, 04:06 PM
He got 3 by being a "game manager"

Heck Terry Bradshaw has better SuperBowl stats than Tom Brady.

So he's got lucky to be on a team with a great defense and good coaching...isn't that what you say about Ben?

you forgot greatest clutch kicker of all time.

GBMelBlount
12-08-2008, 04:07 PM
Do you think that Rivers, Warner, and Romo are really the best 3 QB's in the league? I don't either. Chad Pennington is in the top 5, WTF. Ben wins us games, even with possibly the worst offensive line in the NFL. Passer rating means nothing to me, there are way to many variables you have to account for.

I agree, Ben has some intangibles. I get pretty irritated with him at times and can't say that I personally "like" him, BUT his fourth quarter comebacks speak for themselves. Plus he never NEVER gives up and I have to respect him for that as well.

The_WARDen
12-08-2008, 04:08 PM
Do you think that Rivers, Warner, and Romo are really the best 3 QB's in the league? I don't either. Chad Pennington is in the top 5, WTF. Ben wins us games, even with possibly the worst offensive line in the NFL. Passer rating means nothing to me, there are way to many variables you have to account for.

I just noticed something...by that list, Pennington, Schaub, Garcia & Ryan are all better than Peyton Manning. I learn something new every day.

:noidea:

Dino 6 Rings
12-08-2008, 04:09 PM
Dude, Schaub just won in Green Bay in December...is like the 2nd coming of Montana or something.

The_WARDen
12-08-2008, 04:11 PM
Dude, Schaub just won in Green Bay in December...is like the 2nd coming of Montana or something.

he put up 400+ yards! What a tremendous QB...wish we had him!

:flap:

R2sojr
12-08-2008, 04:13 PM
Nobody is knobbslobbing. Well atleast we dont have a Ben Tattoo :noidea:

cubanstogie
12-08-2008, 04:14 PM
so don't read it then.....simple, isn't it?

And if you really want an answer, I can't let it go b/c I'm tired, of reading all the Ben knobslobbering. If he was having the year he did last year, great. But the simple fact is that he's not. And as I said to you, I could simply not read it. But this is a STEELERS board. Not a Ben board....or so I thought. So if I have to continue seeing these type of threads, I can do the same. There's no player I love more than Lambert. Do you see my knobslobbing him every chance I get? No...

Look at Peyton stats, way down this year. Are you ready to say he is no longer elite as well. Contrary to what you believe, your only as good as last game is not how a QB or any player is judged when they retire. Thank god for your favorite QB Favre or he would have been out of the league after his pathetic 2005, and 2006 seasons were his rating was about 70. You need to open up your mind and quit looking at stats. Considering the tough wind, Dallas pressure, our RB's avg of about 2 a carry Ben had a pretty solid day. Yes he hung onto the ball too long on occasion, but also scrambled his way to making plays. Zero pic with the pressure he had was solid as well. His QB rating was about 80, which cannot be compared to a guy throwing indoors with all the time in the world. Those aren't excuses, that is looking at the big picture. My point is get your Arse out of the stat sheet and look at someting other than a QB rating.

Edman
12-08-2008, 04:15 PM
Most wins by a quarterback starting his first five years.

10-3 record.

Made playoffs 3 out of 4 seasons he's been here, and closing in on a fourth.

Ben will probably never put up the amazing stats under later in his career (Like Elway), but the guy wins. Sorry if that doesn't tickle your fantasy football critique.

Stlrs4Life
12-08-2008, 04:16 PM
We need to start running the ball. But we can't because we probably have the worst offensive lines in the league. Thank goodness we have Ben to extend the play and avoid the rush. Our receivers aren't doing a great job of getting open which makes it a lot easier for the QB. We are lucky to have Ben. If you don't know that by now then you never will.


We can't run the ball becuase we do not have or use a good FB. Carey Davis stinks.

R2sojr
12-08-2008, 04:17 PM
so don't read it then.....simple, isn't it?

And if you really want an answer, I can't let it go b/c I'm tired, of reading all the Ben knobslobbering. If he was having the year he did last year, great. But the simple fact is that he's not. And as I said to you, I could simply not read it. But this is a STEELERS board. Not a Ben board....or so I thought. So if I have to continue seeing these type of threads, I can do the same. There's no player I love more than Lambert. Do you see my knobslobbing him every chance I get? No...


No offence but whos the one with the Lambert tattoo. Your a little ahead if talking about knobslobbing. :noidea:

cubanstogie
12-08-2008, 04:20 PM
We can't run the ball becuase we do not have or use a good FB. Carey Davis stinks.

I haven't seen enough to say he stinks, but I was shocked at how easy he went down on that goal line catch. Maybe I need to watch it again, but my initial though was wow he went down fast.

NYC SteelersFan
12-08-2008, 04:59 PM
basing this off QB Rating, one of the most overrated stats? you are way off man

Stats are overrated. The only stat that matters is the number in the W column.

Stats are almost as overrated as Big Ben....

I have to disagree with all 3 of you. Certain stats have a lot of value, I believe QB rating is a very close indication of who a QB is and how well he plays. Also stats COLLECTIVELY do tell a story without the eyes having to see. If you have the lowest ERA in the league but you have only pitched 10 innings, than yes, the stat is useless. If you have the highest QB rating possible but you have only played 1 game, then yes QB rating is useless.

Roethlisbergers QB rating over 4 3/4 years is phenomenal and is a clear indication of how well he has played and how good he has been over 4 3/4 years. And every other one of his stats are in direct correlation with the QB rating including the second most important stat for a QB, TD to INT ration as well as the 3rd most important stat completion percentage. And the most necessary stat for any player period, number of games played. Over 4 3/4 years Roethlisberger has a;

89.9 QB rating
98 TD's and 66 INT's
62.5 Cmp%
70 games played

LambertIsGod58, since you have officially checked out of reality my friend and are busy looking at stats, please find me 5 QB's with those numbers averaged over the past 4 3/4 years and I'll admit Roethlisberger IS NOT one of the top 5 QB's in the league (even though it is true cause I know there are NOT 5 QB's that have number equal or better over the past 4 3/4 years)

In 16 years do you know how many times Favre had a QB rating in the 70's? 5 times. Do you know how many times he had a QB rating in the 80's? 3 times. So according to the premise of your original post, Favre has sucked for half his career.

Also according to the premise of your thread, if all rosters were wiped clean and you had the 5th pick in the draft to rebuild all 32 NFL teams, you would select Chad Pennington. (Though we both know you would select Favre)

MillerMania83
12-08-2008, 05:19 PM
Most wins by a quarterback starting his first five years.

10-3 record.

Made playoffs 3 out of 4 seasons he's been here, and closing in on a fourth.

Ben will probably never put up the amazing stats under later in his career (Like Elway), but the guy wins. Sorry if that doesn't tickle your fantasy football critique.

I love what was said here....Ben is ABSOLUTELY an ELITE QB....The guy is a WINNER, and the last time I checked, that is the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS....Most wins by a QB in his first 5 seasons says ENOUGH, that would be EVER....And I believe yestedays comeback was the 16th time he's either comeback or was tied in the 4th qtr and led the team to a W, THAT IS WHAT I WANT IN MY QB, and guy you know can win the game for ya if you get him the ball for just one more time or a game ending drive, HE DOESN'T GET RATTLED, HE JUST MAKES PLAYS.....Hey, every QB has some years that are better/worse than others, and I ouldn't trade Big Ben in for any other QB in the league, and that's JMO....And as for the Eli references, well, Eli is probably playing THE BEST OFFENSIVE LINE IN PRO FOOTBALL right now, with a 3 headed monster in the backfield to run the ball, you give Ben that kind of O line to play behind, and he would be UNSTOPPABLE, and I'd like to see Eli run the show behind the Stllers O line this year and lets see how he would do, with our banged up RB's, I'm guessing NOT TOO WELL, JUST THE FACTS.

Ricco Suavez
12-08-2008, 06:03 PM
Eli proved how average he is yesterday when their run game is shut down.

Big D
12-08-2008, 06:11 PM
[QUOTE=LambertIsGod58;491552]I just wanted to point this out to all of you who think Roethlisberger is still an elite QB. My premise is the same as Chuck Noll. That is being a today person. What you did yesterday doesn't matter. Or in the case, the last 4 seasons. Only one of which was an elite season IMO. If you think being ranked 23rd, behind two rookie QB's and a supposed washed up 40yr old with a new team, is elite....God Bless you for not having high expectations in your franchise QB. I'd like to think we could get alot more for $100 million dollars. I don't route against Ben.....it's actually just the opposite. I am first and foremost a STEELERS fan. I'd like nothing more than for Ben to be the elite QB you all think he is. I just don't. Not after ONE elite year. And if you look back at all the stats, you'll see that the running game and defense were all ranked in the top 5 when we won the SB and the season we went 15-1. BTW NYC, Eli is still a better QB even after yesterday. And even if it weren't the case, Eli is improving while Ben seems to be regressing.

You have to be shitting me.... FIrst of all Ben has been battling injury all year long. Not to mention kendall simmons getting hurt, playing behind a bad offensive line. And playing most of the season with his 3rd string running back. I would say he's doing his best under the circumstances

steelergirl07
12-08-2008, 06:13 PM
Dude really? :rolleyes:

We all get it, you hate him. We see it in every single thread. Did you really need to make a whole new thread to post one stupid stat?

d2609j
12-08-2008, 08:36 PM
I think Strahan said it best yesterday after the game. "You get so tired of how Ben holds the ball for so long. Just get rid of the ball, Just throw it away." When he stays in the pocket, and doesnt get happy feet, and checks off, he is a good QB and we are a tough team to beat. When he trys to create to much he is an average to below average qb that hurts us more than helps us. 2 things I wouldnt mind seeing. 1) Ben needs to tuck the ball and take off more often, and 2) quit acting hurt everytime you mess up.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
12-08-2008, 08:55 PM
I got one for you Lambert. Tom Brady, according to your standards, has only had one elite season. So that means he's not an elite QB, right?

Anyways, Ben has no o-line, no receivers, and very little running game. No Fitzgerald, no Ocho Cinco, no Owens, no Plaxico, no Moss. He is more or less asked to carry the offense every game. The only difference between the steelers' lineups between 2003 and 2004 was one position. And it took the team from 6-10 to 15-1. Do the math.

43Hitman
12-08-2008, 09:03 PM
so don't read it then.....simple, isn't it?

And if you really want an answer, I can't let it go b/c I'm tired, of reading all the Ben knobslobbering. If he was having the year he did last year, great. But the simple fact is that he's not. And as I said to you, I could simply not read it. But this is a STEELERS board. Not a Ben board....or so I thought. So if I have to continue seeing these type of threads, I can do the same. There's no player I love more than Lambert. Do you see my knobslobbing him every chance I get? No...


So take your own advice..AND DON'T READ IT.. Your being a stubborn ass about it.:banging:

billybob
12-08-2008, 09:15 PM
Wow man , when the chips are down , he has come way through ,more than he has not. He is "Big Ben " ,not almighty ben. Like to see you take him down!!!!!!!!!

markymarc
12-09-2008, 07:22 AM
Most Wins for a QB in his first 5 years.

Thats not on your little list.

And that is the only stat that matters.

markymarc
12-09-2008, 07:25 AM
Dude really? :rolleyes:

We all get it, you hate him. We see it in every single thread. Did you really need to make a whole new thread to post one stupid stat?

But of course he forgot the most important stat and that would be how many games those QBs have won. Last I checked Ben has the most wins out of all NFL QBs in his first 5 years. But hey some people want to continue and throw out the "fantasy" football numbers. The ONLY thing that matters is getting wins.

HometownGal
12-09-2008, 07:26 AM
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

That is all.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
12-09-2008, 12:39 PM
Owned:doh:

kingkulsteel
12-09-2008, 02:33 PM
Hey man, I'm only arguing this case based on the arguments I get from people. But if it's not his QB rating or stats, what makes him elite?


umm. they are called Wins

LambertIsGod58
12-09-2008, 02:35 PM
umm. they are called Wins

BRB....got something for you.

LambertIsGod58
12-09-2008, 02:36 PM
Oh yeah....here you go. Wins? Looks like they weren't the result of Ben. But keep giving him false credit. It's cute!



2004 Defense ranked 1st Running game ranked 2nd

2005 Defense ranked 4th Running game ranked 5th

2006 Defense ranked 9th Running game ranked 10th

2007 Defense ranked 1st Running game ranked 3rd

2008 Defense ranked 1st Running game ranked 23rd



2004 28th ranked passing game

2005 24th ranked passing game

2006 9th ranked passing game

2007 22nd ranked passing game

2008 20th ranked passing game

DACEB
12-09-2008, 02:42 PM
2004 Defense ranked 1st Running game ranked 2nd

2005 Defense ranked 4th Running game ranked 5th

2006 Defense ranked 9th Running game ranked 10th

2007 Defense ranked 1st Running game ranked 3rd

2008 Defense ranked 1st Running game ranked 23rd



2004 28th ranked passing game

2005 24th ranked passing game

2006 9th ranked passing game

2007 22nd ranked passing game

2008 20th ranked passing game

Looks like the year we needed him most, he pulled through. Oh wait, we sucked that year didn't we.

Dude, your an extremely intelligent poster, let it go.

LambertIsGod58
12-09-2008, 02:43 PM
Looks like the year we needed him most, he pulled through.

Dude, your an intelligent poster, let it go.

Thanks man for the compliment. But SB XL was played for the '05 season.

The_WARDen
12-09-2008, 02:45 PM
It's spelled L I F E

Try it sometime...

:wave:

kingkulsteel
12-09-2008, 02:48 PM
We werent a throw first team back when Cowher was here either. You kinda failed to mention that part. It was cute of you to omit that part from your argument.

LambertIsGod58
12-09-2008, 02:58 PM
We werent a throw first team back when Cowher was here either. You kinda failed to mention that part. It was cute of you to omit that part from your argument.

And the last two year's? So a QB:coffee: can be elite with handing the ball off?

Ricco Suavez
12-09-2008, 03:15 PM
Bottom line about Ben. Is he an elite QB. I dont really know. What makes an elite Qb. Meaningless stats without wins. Wins with so-so stats. All i know is Bart Starr was considered a great QB. Does anyone believe he would have been considered in the same light if he had played for the Steelers of the sixties. The Packers were awesome during that time. They were a complete team with great coaching. Lombardi felt Starr gave him the best chance to win. In Bens case the Rooneys see something they feel is worth 100 million, Cowher saw him as the best chance to win , Tomlin sees him as the best chance to win. Now people can spout all the stats they want, you can spout your opinion, that is your right, but as for me I am going to put my faith with the people who actually get paid to have an opinion that means something. There are 31 other NFL Teams and of those 31 IMO 25 of them would love to have Ben. That is a conservative estimate IMHO.

tyler289
12-09-2008, 03:19 PM
Ben is one of the most clutch QBs in the league. He has what, like 15+ game-tying or game-winning drives in the 4th quarter? Sunday is a prime example. He may have been bad for much of the game, but when his team needed him most, he came through. Which is what elite QBs do.

MACH1
12-09-2008, 03:20 PM
And the last two year's? So a QB:coffee: can be elite with handing the ball off?

:yawn::yawn:

hindes204
12-09-2008, 03:29 PM
so don't read it then.....simple, isn't it?

And if you really want an answer, I can't let it go b/c I'm tired, of reading all the Ben knobslobbering. If he was having the year he did last year, great. But the simple fact is that he's not. And as I said to you, I could simply not read it. But this is a STEELERS board. Not a Ben board....or so I thought. So if I have to continue seeing these type of threads, I can do the same. There's no player I love more than Lambert. Do you see my knobslobbing him every chance I get? No...

WE ARE 10-3........Ben wins games, what more do you want. Is he the greatest QB, no, BUT HE WINS, period

LambertIsGod58
12-09-2008, 03:37 PM
WE ARE 10-3........Ben wins games, what more do you want. Is he the greatest QB, no, BUT HE WINS, period

Thanks...and that's all I'm tryin to say. That he's not the greatest. But no one gets it. But saying so, I'm not a true fan yada yada yada....If being a true fan means keeping my head in the sand, then I guess I'm not a true fan. And Hindes, this wasn't directed toward you. Winning games with his arm and winning games are two different things to me. Maybe I should be more appreciate of what he brings. I just think that given the track record of both our defense and running game since Ben came into town, Ben doesn't deserve the credit and adulation he gets for the success this team has had. Does he deserve some? Absolutely. Like I said, he makes throws our past QB's were not. But IMO, this doesn't make him great, it makes him good. Not the second coming of Joe Montana or "better" than Favre. Can the argument be made one day that he's better than Favre? I can't rule it out. But one great season doesn't cut it. And so far, I'd say that Ben isn't on track to be better than Favre was.

hindes204
12-09-2008, 03:43 PM
Thanks...and that's all I'm tryin to say. That he's not the greatest. But no one gets it. But saying so, I'm not a true fan yada yada yada....If being a true fan means keeping my head in the sand, then I guess I'm not a true fan. And Hindes, this wasn't directed toward you. Winning games with his arm and winning games are two different things to me. Maybe I should be more appreciate of what he brings. I just think that given the track record of both our defense and running game since Ben came into town, Ben doesn't deserve the credit and adulation he gets for the success this team has had. Does he deserve some? Absolutely. Like I said, he makes throws our past QB's were not. But IMO, this doesn't make him great, it makes him good. Not the second coming of Joe Montana or "better" than Favre. Can the argument be made one day that he's better than Favre? I can't rule it out. But one great season doesn't cut it. And so far, I'd say that Ben isn't on track to be better than Favre was.

You have to at least admit, that without ben, we would not be where we are today...a super bowl win a few years back, and a 10-3 record with a very tough schedule

cubanstogie
12-09-2008, 03:46 PM
I QB is more than just a drop back passer with a pretty spiral that can throw the ball 70 yds on a rope. Its a guy whose team will have faith in and rally around in the 4th quarter when the chips are down. Motivator, leader. manage the game during 2 minute drills and get guys where they are supposed to be. If it were just for the pretty pass, Carson Palmer and Mark Bulger would be the most elite. Favre, Montana, and Elway were all feared in the 4th quarter during close games. Teams were conscious on not giving them any time in end of game to score. You don't think teams feel the same about Ben, Lambertgod. You must have pretty short memory if you think all he has done is hand the ball off. You are keying in on bad games such as Jets and Pats playoffs, but fail to remember in the 15-1 season the comebacks led by Ben against Dallas, Jax, Bengals, Giants and the big game against the eventual SB winners during the reg season. I am not going to sit here and name them all, but there are many more during the next couple of years. Tell me the Steelers team doesn't have confidence he can win any game for them in the 4th quarter. That is a leader and an elite QB.

LambertIsGod58
12-09-2008, 03:50 PM
I QB is more than just a drop back passer with a pretty spiral that can throw the ball 70 yds on a rope. Its a guy whose team will have faith in and rally around in the 4th quarter when the chips are down. Motivator, leader. manage the game during 2 minute drills and get guys where they are supposed to be. If it were just for the pretty pass, Carson Palmer and Mark Bulger would be the most elite. Favre, Montana, and Elway were all feared in the 4th quarter during close games. Teams were conscious on not giving them any time in end of game to score. You don't think teams feel the same about Ben, Lambertgod. You must have pretty short memory if you think all he has done is hand the ball off. You are keying in on bad games such as Jets and Pats playoffs, but fail to remember in the 15-1 season the comebacks led by Ben against Dallas, Jax, Bengals, Giants and the big game against the eventual SB winners during the reg season. I am not going to sit here and name them all, but there are many more during the next couple of years. Tell me the Steelers team doesn't have confidence he can win any game for them in the 4th quarter. That is a leader and an elite QB.

While I agree with most of your post, I say it makes him a leader. Not elite.

hindes204
12-09-2008, 03:50 PM
I QB is more than just a drop back passer with a pretty spiral that can throw the ball 70 yds on a rope. Its a guy whose team will have faith in and rally around in the 4th quarter when the chips are down. Motivator, leader. manage the game during 2 minute drills and get guys where they are supposed to be. If it were just for the pretty pass, Carson Palmer and Mark Bulger would be the most elite. Favre, Montana, and Elway were all feared in the 4th quarter during close games. Teams were conscious on not giving them any time in end of game to score. You don't think teams feel the same about Ben, Lambertgod. You must have pretty short memory if you think all he has done is hand the ball off. You are keying in on bad games such as Jets and Pats playoffs, but fail to remember in the 15-1 season the comebacks led by Ben against Dallas, Jax, Bengals, Giants and the big game against the eventual SB winners during the reg season. I am not going to sit here and name them all, but there are many more during the next couple of years. Tell me the Steelers team doesn't have confidence he can win any game for them in the 4th quarter. That is a leader and an elite QB.

GREAT POST!!!!!!!!!!!! I AGREE 100%:tt02:

beSteelmyheart
12-09-2008, 09:51 PM
Thanks...and that's all I'm tryin to say. That he's not the greatest. But no one gets it. But saying so, I'm not a true fan yada yada yada....If being a true fan means keeping my head in the sand, then I guess I'm not a true fan. And Hindes, this wasn't directed toward you. Winning games with his arm and winning games are two different things to me. Maybe I should be more appreciate of what he brings. I just think that given the track record of both our defense and running game since Ben came into town, Ben doesn't deserve the credit and adulation he gets for the success this team has had. Does he deserve some? Absolutely. Like I said, he makes throws our past QB's were not. But IMO, this doesn't make him great, it makes him good. Not the second coming of Joe Montana or "better" than Favre. Can the argument be made one day that he's better than Favre? I can't rule it out. But one great season doesn't cut it. And so far, I'd say that Ben isn't on track to be better than Favre was.

I don't understand why you keep picking arguments about it. We know you're not a fan of Ben & I can respect that, but can we move on?

HometownGal
12-09-2008, 09:59 PM
DIE THREAD . . . . .

DIE!!!!! :banging::doh::banging:

SteelCityKingsVP
12-09-2008, 11:38 PM
Are you serious? Just because Ben has had an off season, your gonna go all out with the "stats" to show that hes the #23 ranked QB this year. Sorry pal, your way off

Steelers & I
12-10-2008, 12:00 AM
Thanks...and that's all I'm tryin to say. That he's not the greatest. But no one gets it. But saying so, I'm not a true fan yada yada yada....If being a true fan means keeping my head in the sand, then I guess I'm not a true fan. And Hindes, this wasn't directed toward you. Winning games with his arm and winning games are two different things to me. Maybe I should be more appreciate of what he brings. I just think that given the track record of both our defense and running game since Ben came into town, Ben doesn't deserve the credit and adulation he gets for the success this team has had. Does he deserve some? Absolutely. Like I said, he makes throws our past QB's were not. But IMO, this doesn't make him great, it makes him good. Not the second coming of Joe Montana or "better" than Favre. Can the argument be made one day that he's better than Favre? I can't rule it out. But one great season doesn't cut it. And so far, I'd say that Ben isn't on track to be better than Favre was.

Alright, I can accept and agree with this post. At this point in Roethlisberger's career, who knows where he'll end up on the "QB career statistics list"? I don't believe that he's any threat to Marino's numbers but that's OK with me.

I do know that he has the opportunity to win another Super Bowl or two for the Steelers so that makes him "great enough" for me. :thumbsup:

markymarc
12-10-2008, 07:56 AM
And so far, I'd say that Ben isn't on track to be better than Favre was.

And correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Ben have the exact same number of Super Bowl victories as Ben. Amazing how Brett has all the fantasy numbers in his career but only has 1 super bowl victory to show for it. Same with Petyon Manning. Last I checked it takes 3 parts to make a good team. Defense, Offense and Special Teams. Ben still needs to make plays even with a great defense and much better special teams play. Also and this is the most important stat for a QB, Ben now leads all NFL QBs with the most victories in his first 5 years in the NFL with 49. And he also has 16 come from behind victories. You can hate it all you want, but when a team comes from behind a lot of that comes from the QB. He gets it done and wins.

LambertIsGod58
12-10-2008, 01:40 PM
I don't understand why you keep picking arguments about it. We know you're not a fan of Ben & I can respect that, but can we move on?

Even though I agree...it's not only I that keeps this thread going. But I notice it's addressed to me.

MACH1
12-10-2008, 01:45 PM
:yawn:

Neil-Still-Rules-14
12-10-2008, 09:12 PM
I don't see how just because they had a great D means that Ben isn't elite. You need all elements to win. And elite QB is one of those. How about Bradshaw? He played with the greatest D EVER.

thebus36idf
12-10-2008, 10:15 PM
I think a good point he does have is that Ben isn't improving like Eli, Flacco, and others. I still hold out Hope for him though. We just can't sign quaterbacks for big bucks I guess, because they immediatly go downhill. Easier said than done. That Pass in the Jacksonville game was awesome!!! However many quaterbacks have hot streaks, and don't get paid as much as Ben

HometownGal
12-10-2008, 10:47 PM
Did any of you members of the Ben haters club ever stop and think that the old addage that "a QB is only as productive as his OL" really might be true with this current line? Look around the league - most of the top 10'ers have stellar OL's, which sadly Ben doesn't have the benefit of. Put an average or slightly above average OL in front of him and I can almost guarantee you'll see not only the Ben of 2005 but the once extremely productive running game.

Steelers & I
12-11-2008, 12:02 AM
My NFL Sunday Ticket must be blacking out a few teams because I've yet to see "10 stellar offensive lines" in the league.

If the Steelers do decide to put an above average offensive line in front of Ben, it's going to take some major bucks to do so. At that point we can kiss that great defense GOODBYE because the Steelers sure as heck won't be able to hide all of that under the salary cap.

I'm happy with the way things are. That offensive line isn't ANYWHERE near as bad as some of you have suggested.


Teams with stellar offensive lines: Colts, Giants, Cowboys, Titans. Maybe: Patriots, Broncos.
JUST MY OPINION OF COURSE!

lilyoder6
12-11-2008, 01:11 AM
i thnk we screwed up big time.. we should of def drafted jason white... :banging:

NYC SteelersFan
12-11-2008, 02:22 AM
I think a good point he does have is that Ben isn't improving like Eli, Flacco, and others. I still hold out Hope for him though. We just can't sign quaterbacks for big bucks I guess, because they immediatly go downhill. Easier said than done. That Pass in the Jacksonville game was awesome!!! However many quaterbacks have hot streaks, and don't get paid as much as Ben

Flacco is a rookie so he has an enormous amount of room for improvement. Eli never had a passer rating higher than 77 in his career before this year, so he also had plenty of room to improve. Actually Eli had a QB rating of 55 his first year. If you don't improve from a 55, then you don't deserve to be in the league. Plus everyone says how Eli got better last year, It's just not true. It's a misconception cause he played "well" in the playoffs (he was even more of a "game manager" than Roethlisberger ever was in those 4 playoff games) that's why they won, they stopped trying to build the offense around his sloppy a$$. Anyway, Eli had a QB rating of 73.9 last year and QB rating of 77 the year before that. So he actually got worst last year from his previous year.

Roethlisberger had a 104.1 QB rating last year, no where to go from there but down. Unless you give him a top 5 Wide receiver and a better o-line.

NYC SteelersFan
12-11-2008, 02:25 AM
My NFL Sunday Ticket must be blacking out a few teams because I've yet to see "10 stellar offensive lines" in the league.

If the Steelers do decide to put an above average offensive line in front of Ben, it's going to take some major bucks to do so. At that point we can kiss that great defense GOODBYE because the Steelers sure as heck won't be able to hide all of that under the salary cap.

I'm happy with the way things are. That offensive line isn't ANYWHERE near as bad as some of you have suggested.


Teams with stellar offensive lines: Colts, Giants, Cowboys, Titans. Maybe: Patriots, Broncos.
JUST MY OPINION OF COURSE!

I kind of agree with you here. A GREAT o-line is pretty hard to come by and there are barely 5 in the league. But our o-line can definitely improve a little without having to go crazy on free agents, that I'm confident in. But I truly believe the non-existant running game has made this o-line appear worse than it is due to the constant blitzing because teams have lost complete respect for our ability to run the ball. And I don't think the rush is because the o-line is bad, I think the guys carrying the ball are responsible.

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
12-11-2008, 02:29 AM
I think a lot of the rushing issues is because we don't use a fullback. A completely bonehead move. We always did well with a fullback, why scrap it all of the sudden? Why do we do rushing plays that take a decade to develop? :doh:

Steelers & I
12-11-2008, 04:00 AM
I kind of agree with you here. A GREAT o-line is pretty hard to come by and there are barely 5 in the league. But our o-line can definitely improve a little without having to go crazy on free agents, that I'm confident in. But I truly believe the non-existant running game has made this o-line appear worse than it is due to the constant blitzing because teams have lost complete respect for our ability to run the ball. And I don't think the rush is because the o-line is bad, I think the guys carrying the ball are responsible.


Agree with that. If the Steelers are fortunate enough to have a top-flight offensive lineman fall to them at the bottom of next years 1st round, I'm sure that they will snatch him up. Other than that, the offensive line will stay pretty much the same as we're seeing this year. Some fans act as if the Steelers should scrap the entire offensive line and start from scratch. I mean really, that just isn't feasible and finacially IMPOSSIBLE.

The current group of offensive linemen really aren't that bad. They've had their moments both good and bad but I'm starting to see more of the good shine through as of late. I don't know, they're just not too bad, they're average, as is the case with 75% of league.

One premium offensive linemen is hard to come by, let alone two or three. Oh and did I mention that they also come at a PREMIUM PRICE? Salary cap anyone????
If the day comes when the Steelers decide to mortgage the future on offensive linemen rather than DEFENSIVE and skilled offensive players, it will be a sad era in Steelers football history.

MDSteel15
12-11-2008, 04:09 AM
so don't read it then.....simple, isn't it?

And if you really want an answer, I can't let it go b/c I'm tired, of reading all the Ben knobslobbering. If he was having the year he did last year, great. But the simple fact is that he's not. And as I said to you, I could simply not read it. But this is a STEELERS board. Not a Ben board....or so I thought. So if I have to continue seeing these type of threads, I can do the same. There's no player I love more than Lambert. Do you see my knobslobbing him every chance I get? No...

I had to stop reading this post here just to say one thing, the 1 and only stat that means anything in the sportsworld in Wins Versus Losses :thumbsup: Nothing else matters except when it comes to fantasy football.....

steel striker
12-11-2008, 07:11 AM
The only stat that matters is wins and, Ben has the most for his five years in the league. Of course the defense has had alot to do with that but, there have been plenty of games where Ben has made plays for us to win. Too many people get caught up in this elite crap or great stats. The bottom line is Ben is a winner end of story.

LambertIsGod58
12-11-2008, 07:24 AM
I had to stop reading this post here just to say one thing, the 1 and only stat that means anything in the sportsworld in Wins Versus Losses :thumbsup: Nothing else matters except when it comes to fantasy football.....


I don't disagree with that. But when Ben is made out to be an "elite" quarterback, I have to argue that. Ben is one of 22 players....so why does it seem to me that he gets all the credit? So over the last 5 years, is Casey Hampton necessarily regarded as the "elite" NT? I'd say having a top 9 defense every year for the last five would dictate that....Ben does his part, don't get me wrong. But I would say his supporting cast over the same time frame has been better than average.:coffee:

LambertIsGod58
12-11-2008, 07:54 AM
I don't see how just because they had a great D means that Ben isn't elite. You need all elements to win. And elite QB is one of those. How about Bradshaw? He played with the greatest D EVER.

Bradshaw was in and out of the starting line-up for his first 5-6 years in the league. He was a great big game QB, but again it was the defense and running game that won those titles. I believe even Bradshaw himself would say that for the most part, all he had to do was manage games and not turn the ball over. I think NYC said it best....that the meaning of "elite" can mean different things to different people.

LambertIsGod58
12-11-2008, 08:01 AM
Did any of you members of the Ben haters club ever stop and think that the old addage that "a QB is only as productive as his OL" really might be true with this current line? Look around the league - most of the top 10'ers have stellar OL's, which sadly Ben doesn't have the benefit of. Put an average or slightly above average OL in front of him and I can almost guarantee you'll see not only the Ben of 2005 but the once extremely productive running game.

"Hater"? You too HTG? I've never said I hate Ben. But I dont' drink Ben kool aid either, I do know that. There are definite issues with this O-line. But I would also say that Ben is having his share of issues too. But from reading your post, you disagree as do most others fans. I choose to call things the way I see it. Always have and always will. But I think it's truly unfair to label people as "haters" or "untrue" fans because they criticize the team they route for. I route for the black and gold every Sunday without exception. Whether or not I think certain players are overrated or not doesn't change that.

Dino 6 Rings
12-11-2008, 08:08 AM
Bradshaw was in and out of the starting line-up for his first 5-6 years in the league. He was a great big game QB, but again it was the defense and running game that won those titles. I believe even Bradshaw himself would say that for the most part, all he had to do was manage games and not turn the ball over. I think NYC said it best....that the meaning of "elite" can mean different things to different people.

I disagree that the defense and running game won the last two titles.

Bradshaw was the league MVP and SuperBowl MVP in the 1978/79 Season and was the MVP of the Superbowl in the 1979/80 Season.

Career Post season record as a Starter, 14-5.

Though shall not talk down about Terry Bradshaw. Rip Big Ben all you want, but stay away from My God....Terry Bradshaw.

LambertIsGod58
12-11-2008, 08:11 AM
I disagree that the defense and running game won the last two titles.

Bradshaw was the league MVP and SuperBowl MVP in the 1978/79 Season and was the MVP of the Superbowl in the 1979/80 Season.

Career Post season record as a Starter, 14-5.

Though shall not talk down about Terry Bradshaw. Rip Big Ben all you want, but stay away from My God....Terry Bradshaw.

You are right dino.....I stand corrected. Bradshaw was more than instrumental in the XIII and XIV wins. But I don't think you can argue that was the case in IX and X.

Dino 6 Rings
12-11-2008, 08:15 AM
You are right dino.....I stand corrected. Bradshaw was more than instrumental in the XIII and XIV wins. But I don't think you can argue that was the case in IX and X.

He did call ALL the plays on offense so the argument could be made, but I won't get into that since its a "Ben" thread.

There is no doubt that the defense and running game were huge in starting the run in the 70s, but I don't think they win any SBs with anyone other than Terry under Center.

HometownGal
12-11-2008, 08:21 AM
Ben is one of 22 players....so why does it seem to me that he gets all the credit?

True Lambert, but why is it that when the Steelers take a loss, Ben (and Arians) get most of the blame? :banging: I love a lot of things about Ben but what I love about him the most is that when he has a bad game, he doesn't point fingers at anyone else - he shoulders the blame.

I still am not confident in our OL and I do hold them responsible for some of the problems Ben has encountered this season, as well as our running game not being productive.

LambertIsGod58
12-11-2008, 08:30 AM
True Lambert, but why is it that when the Steelers take a loss, Ben (and Arians) get most of the blame? :banging: I love a lot of things about Ben but what I love about him the most is that when he has a bad game, he doesn't point fingers at anyone else - he shoulders the blame.

I still am not confident in our OL and I do hold them responsible for some of the problems Ben has encountered this season, as well as our running game not being productive.

I agree that they get most of the blame....but I don't come out making the comments I've made about Ben after a loss. It wasn't until the Ben-slobbering started getting out of control IMO did I make my comments.

I'm not confident in our offensive line either. I believe Ben was sacked 48 times last year? And our first two picks were a RB and WR....I know some people say that we can't second guess the front office, but neither one of those guys are paying dividends right now. I realize Mendenhall is hurt, but there were some really good offensive linemen available in the first two rounds.