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View Full Version : Bruce Arians....Go or Stay?


xbroughneck
12-08-2008, 05:18 PM
I don't care if the Steelers win the Super Bowl this year. When the 2009 season starts the Steelers need to have a brand new offensive coordinator that will use a fullback in the backfield.

The I formation set has been forgotten in Arian's system. Plus, run/pass balance has now become a thing of the past.

I love the Steelers and the entire coaching staff except for Bruce Arians.

29th ranked offense in the league. Time for a change.

MillerMania83
12-08-2008, 05:27 PM
I don't care if the Steelers win the Super Bowl this year. When the 2009 season starts the Steelers need to have a brand new offensive coordinator that will use a fullback in the backfield.

The I formation set has been forgotten in Arian's system. Plus, run/pass balance has now become a thing of the past.

I love the Steelers and the entire coaching staff except for Bruce Arians.

29th ranked offense in the league. Time for a change.

I COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE....I know there are many on here that are BA "backers", BUT I CAN'T STAND HIM, and that's JMO...But our O has NO flow or rythem, IT JUST DON'T...Even when the Steelers have a good game and things go well, I still can't stand the playing calling most of the time....I'm a "jo shmo" just a fan, but I can't remember a season where I've sat and watched them games and screamed at my TV "what the he!! was that" or "WHY" or "you can't se serious", and it all has to do with the play calling....Like I said, it's JMO, but BA HAS TO GO, our O has no "flow", and it seems going into week 15 we should have an idea of what our O wants to do or how things should called in these BIG games, and right now, every game is a BIG ?????? as to what the heck the play calling is going to be like this week....Like I said, JMO, but BA SHOULD GO.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-08-2008, 05:29 PM
He will stay. You dont even need an "I" formation, just a blocker. The 49ers ran a lot from the "twin backs" (pro set, pony or whatever you call it) with Tom Rathman and did quite well.

Arians will still be around, but his lack of short yardage run game is nothing new. It was the same when he was coaching in Cleveland.

The Browns will have a legitimate fullback for the first time in the expansion era, as Terrelle Smith will look to help the team convert the short-yardage and goal-line situations that were the bane of the team's existence in 2003.

http://det.scout.com/a.z?s=93&p=2&c=292767

steelreserve
12-08-2008, 05:40 PM
Well, the offense has looked completely uncoordinated all season. You would think that if there's a guy whose job is called "offensive coordinator," it's his fault.

We have Pro-Bowl-caliber players at every skill position on offense. There's no reason we should be struggling this much.

fansince'76
12-08-2008, 05:47 PM
Yeah, we need a new thread on this topic each and every week. :applaudit:

Ricco Suavez
12-08-2008, 05:52 PM
I agree we have skill players and should be doing better on offense. I will not go so far as to say this is Arians fault. We cannot line up and run like in the previous years. For one thing we do not have a true power back,(I am not bashing Parker). Our line just does not control the line of scrimmage. We cannot just abandon the run though, as we will become one dimensional and that much easier to defend. I do not envy Arians job right now as he has the horses but not the mules.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-08-2008, 06:03 PM
Yeah, we need a new thread on this topic each and every week. :applaudit:

:rofl:
Look at it this way. It makes the "Mahan Sucks", "KUUUUUUHHHHNNN" or "Why does Cowher Run the Ball So Much??" threads seem like ancient history.

billybob
12-08-2008, 06:05 PM
It is not too late for Arians to right the ship, but good lord he has got to do something about this mostly pathetic offense. He is the offensive co-ordinator ,so co- ordinate already. He should know by now that teams are going to come with all out blitzes ,but he seems to fail to prepare for that scenario. He has not come up with a plan to force teams to stop what the Eagles brought to the attention of other teams.
If he has,we sure have not seen it thus far.

ShutDown24
12-08-2008, 06:08 PM
He really does need to go. I'm not someone who likes to criticize coaching a lot, but Arians really doesn't have a potent offensive system at all. Anything positive that has developed in our offense has been strictly because of the talent our players possess, hardly any production has resulted from a good, balanced offensive game plan at all.

As for the I formation, his lack of using it isn’t necessarily a problem in itself. But certainly, Arians needs to establish he can put some consistent production into our attack. And apparently, the packages he has been running aren’t going to make that happen anytime soon.

It could be much, much worse. But it could also be much, much improved. Arians has done "OKAY" in my book. However, with the Steelers being an elite sports team, I just don't think "OKAY" is quite good enough.

steelreserve
12-08-2008, 06:26 PM
Yeah, we need a new thread on this topic each and every week. :applaudit:

Hey, I could make another "Parker sucks" thread too if you want.

In fact, why doesn't someone just create a single one and make it sticky?

#1LambertFan
12-08-2008, 06:36 PM
Alright Arians isn't great but he is good. Trick plays, for the Steelers were few and far between before he came but then again we had Russ Grimm and a very good O-line. The offensive troubles are something to worry about but not something to keep rambling on about. With 2 O-lineman taken in the top 3 rounds of the draft we can have an extremely good line again. In time it might be elite. The I form I have thought has been dead since around the end of last year but I do see some sunshine in the horizon. I counted the I-form used 6 plays yesterday. Which is still considerably low but it is slowly making it's way back! Anyway, Tomlin for coach of the year for winning tough games with a bad offense.

#1LambertFan
12-08-2008, 06:39 PM
By the way what happened to Dan Kreider? I almost forgot about him but then I remember the good old days. I miss him taking out 2 or 3 potential tacklers every other run play.

stillers4me
12-08-2008, 06:44 PM
We need an offensive genius to balance the genius of Dick LeBeau.

Well....ok. Maybe that's impossible, but with LeBeau and Tomlin cooking up schemes together, the Steelers deserve someone on the other side of the ball that can make some magic happen.

#1LambertFan
12-08-2008, 06:47 PM
We need an offensive genius to balance the genius of Dick LeBeau.

Well....ok. Maybe that's impossible, but with LeBeau and Tomlin cooking up schemes together, the Steelers deserve someone on the other side of the ball that can make some magic happen.

Let's get Wisenhunt and Grimm back!!!

fansince'76
12-08-2008, 06:52 PM
If Arians isn't retained, I'd like to see us get Norv Turner for OC. As bad as he is as a HC, he's just as good an OC. I doubt he's going to last past January in the employ of the Chargers.

stillers4me
12-08-2008, 06:56 PM
Let's get Wisenhunt and Grimm back!!!

ummmm......yeah.

Brandon
12-08-2008, 07:00 PM
Don't let the door hit ya Bruce! Although, an offensive line would be nice as well.

Preacher
12-08-2008, 07:17 PM
Let's get Wisenhunt and Grimm back!!!


I SO hope that was saracasm.

Grimm is the guy that created the mess that we are now cleaning up. It was his offensive lives that produced two 40 plus sacks in the 5 years he was here. IMO, he created a one dimensional offensive line. Before him, the sack numbers were usually in the 20's.

Now we are paying for it. No thank you.

LVSteelersfan
12-08-2008, 07:24 PM
I have tried and tried to be on the Arian's side but I just can't. The red zone offense is nonexistant. We get down there over and over and over and kick field goals over and over and over. It is just sickening to watch. Ben is partially at fault, but Arians needs to take the brunt of the blame for that mess. Receivers are not getting open. Even if they do, Ben is getting sacked before he can get it to them. The running game is absolutely pathetic. How we can possibly be 10-3 is beyond me. That defense is just AWESOME is all I can say. Every time the Steelers get the ball I assume a three and out with a sack on third and long. I hate that feeling. Make it go away Arians. Please.

stillers4me
12-08-2008, 07:24 PM
I SO hope that was saracasm.

Grimm is the guy that created the mess that we are now cleaning up. It was his offensive lives that produced two 40 plus sacks in the 5 years he was here. IMO, he created a one dimensional offensive line. Before him, the sack numbers were usually in the 20's.

Now we are paying for it. No thank you.

Thank you.

xbroughneck
12-08-2008, 07:24 PM
Yeah, we need a new thread on this topic each and every week. :applaudit:

OK..so I didn't use the search feature. Sorry.

Doesn't change the fact that
1) Arians isn't a good offensive coordinator
2) Ignoring the thread is even easier than searching for a topic that's been covered countless times. :laughing:

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-08-2008, 07:55 PM
I SO hope that was saracasm.
No thank you.

I've never seen the word "Grimm" used with reference to "offensive genius" before. That is a good one. :chuckle:

billybob
12-08-2008, 07:59 PM
Someone has to take responsibility for the offensive woes. I see more of being predictable ,and not doing anything about it ,as the main problem. There seems to be no "change up" if you will ,in the play calling. Who knows ,maybe Arians is saving that for the play offs. God ,i can only hope so.

steel9guy
12-08-2008, 08:00 PM
I think Bruce Arains has been terrible this year.

With the exception of a few players this is the same Offense that ranked 7th in the league in 2006. and for it to be this offense to be this low is horrible.

fansince'76
12-08-2008, 08:03 PM
With the exception of a few players this is the same Offense that ranked 7th in the league in 2006.

And had a 2-6 start and an 8-8 final record to show for it. I think part of the reason we were ranked that high is because we usually got behind by 14 points or so right off the bat thanks to muffed kickoffs and punts and other stupid turnovers and were forced to throw early and often and throughout the entire game.

billybob
12-08-2008, 08:08 PM
Well , all i can say is that we have to go with what we have. Can we do better? I have faith that we can. Maybe we can only move the ball when we absolutely have to. I don't like it , and i don't think any of us in the Steeler Nation does either.
But we are winning games ,and have the chance to deliver the knock out punch Sunday in Baltimore.
Come on Arians , change our minds .
Go Steelers!!!!!!!!!!!

The Duke
12-08-2008, 08:17 PM
:rofl:
Look at it this way. It makes the "Mahan Sucks", "KUUUUUUHHHHNNN" or "Why does Cowher Run the Ball So Much??" threads seem like ancient history.

Whoa!! there's never enough Kuhn threads you hear me!! :chuckle:

NYC SteelersFan
12-08-2008, 09:17 PM
Wow your a genius broughneck. Theres no possible way our offensive line coach and offensive line players could suck. Arians is fine. In fact, he's more than fine. He's been tested and proven. Am i the only one who remembers that we lost a very good o-line coach in Russ Grimm some time ago? And play calling is nowhere near as important as execution. Really, the offensive line needs to step up.

Tested and proven with who? One year with us and his fantastic resume with Ceveland?

The Duke
12-08-2008, 09:20 PM
Wow your a genius broughneck. Theres no possible way our offensive line coach and offensive line players could suck. Arians is fine. In fact, he's more than fine. He's been tested and proven. Am i the only one who remembers that we lost a very good o-line coach in Russ Grimm some time ago? And play calling is nowhere near as important as execution. Really, the offensive line needs to step up.

the oline was bad with grimm here too. since he left 2 players have been added that have starting time, hartwig ( the bright spot on the oline) and stapleton

yes, the oline has to step up, with better football players

markymarc
12-09-2008, 07:27 AM
No question Arians must go in the off season. I will be very disappointed with Tomlin if Arians is still on the staff in 2009.

HometownGal
12-09-2008, 07:33 AM
I have no problem with Bruce Arians and I hope Tomlin keeps him on staff next season. This topic has been beaten into the ground since the season started and I haven't changed my opinion one iota.

Steelers & I
12-09-2008, 08:50 AM
Yeah, we need a new thread on this topic each and every week. :applaudit:


Lol, good one fan.

BlastFurnace
12-09-2008, 10:35 AM
I have no problem with Bruce Arians and I hope Tomlin keeps him on staff next season. This topic has been beaten into the ground since the season started and I haven't changed my opinion one iota.

I agree with you. This is not a Ray Sherman or Kevin Gilbride situation. We need better execution by the players....than an overhaul of coaches.

It's funny, Coach Zierlein looks a whole lot better as a coach once Stapleton replaced Simmons and we have gotten some continuity on the O'line. Coach Ligashesky (spelling?) looks a whole lot better as a coach this year as well...now that we have the personnel to play special teams.

It's about the execution of the players.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-09-2008, 10:54 AM
It's funny, Coach Zierlein looks a whole lot better as a coach once Stapleton replaced Simmons .

Actually, Stapleton is most responsible for the lack of a running game. Watch him closely and you will see that he gets no push in the running game. He is a good pass protector though and is great since we are shifting to the "greatest show on frozen turf".

Zierlein would look better with a new LT and RG, but most likely will look better coaching another team. I have coached O line and understand the challenges. I was a supporter of his and hoped he would do better with what he has, but hasnt. I think he has "lost" his guys on the O line.

stlrtruck
12-09-2008, 12:57 PM
I think keeping him on just one more year may be the difference in the offensive schemes to make sense for those playing in it. Don't throw him out just yet - I saw one more year.

revefsreleets
12-09-2008, 02:00 PM
WE passed 33 times to something like 24 runs in a game we were behind for like 3.5 quarters.

Yeah, we're second coming of the 99-01 Rams:coffee:

People need a goat. Some go after Ben, but he has a lot of loyalty. Most go after Arians because he truly is the easiest target. But, again, lets take a look:

Starks- 75% of the people here DESPISE Max Starks and call him an overpaid bum/bust
Kemo- Good run blocker, questionable pass blocker. Came pretty much out of nowhere and is a first year starter.
Hartwig- Off the Carolina scrap pile.
Stapleton- Another guy who came out of nowhere, 1st year starter, and apparently his weakness is run blocking.
Colon- I guess you'd have to say that he's arguably our best Olineman. He's a 4th round pick from Hofstra. A 2nd year starter.

This is Occam's Razor, people: The simplest solution is also the correct one. We have an Oline that is both inexperienced and unproven. They are actually strating to play better. It all starts up front. It's fine to blame Arians, but he ain't going anywhere, which is the REAL indicator that he's also NOT the problem.

I'm sure the Steelers are fully cognizant of where they rank and how their players are performing. The fans knowledge of the situation is optional.

Michael Keller
12-09-2008, 03:25 PM
I get bored real easy. But you guys can open up a BRUCE ARIANS MUST GO THRERAD every day if it helps get rid of him. PLEASE!!!!

fansince'76
12-09-2008, 03:31 PM
I get bored real easy. But you guys can open up a BRUCE ARIANS MUST GO THRERAD every day if it helps get rid of him. PLEASE!!!!

Somehow, I don't think redundant threads about it here really makes a difference - to Tomlin, the Rooneys, and least of all Arians himself.

Don't think for one second that you're the first football fan to take Bruce Arians' name in vain. "For me, it was worse [as head coach] at Temple," he said last week. "My kids were younger then. They had to go to grade school and hear that their father was an idiot."

The difference now is the animosity is more far-reaching. At least that's what Arians, the Steelers' offensive coordinator, has been told. He learned a long time ago not to step into the Internet's dangerous chat rooms or the insane world of talk radio.

Smart man.

Now if Arians can just convince his brother, Bert ...

"My bloggin' brother," he called him, practically snickering.

"He'll call me and say, 'Do you have any idea what they're saying about you out there?' I just tell him, 'Dude, don't read that stuff. It'll drive you nuts.'

"I don't take any of it personally. You can't. If you do, it'll make you crazy."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08342/933392-66.stm

For better or worse, I prefer it this way as opposed to what has happened in Cleveland - IOW, the FO buckling to fan pressure to start Brady Quinn and making Crennel look really bad in the process.

Preacher
12-09-2008, 03:49 PM
Come on..

This is the Pittsburgh Steelers.

If we don't run the ball up the gut 3 times a set of downs for 4 yards each. . . it is time to replace the coaches.

Never mind that philosophy lost us 4 AFC championship games under Cowher.

The two we won under him... We threw the ball more than we ran the ball... (think back to 2005. The stats have the Bus rushing 15 times, which means the game was effectively over and we were killing the clock. However, when it was still a game, we were passing the ball.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-09-2008, 03:52 PM
I get bored real easy. But you guys can open up a BRUCE ARIANS MUST GO THRERAD every day if it helps get rid of him. PLEASE!!!!

Sorry fellas, its long overdue. I will officially start the "Larry Zeirline must go" in an attempt to take the heat off of BA.

I think the fans need somewhere to vent and Coach Z hasnt got a lot of heat lately. Good think he is now avoiding that "reply to all"button :chuckle:

Edman
12-09-2008, 04:02 PM
And had a 2-6 start and an 8-8 final record to show for it. I think part of the reason we were ranked that high is because we usually got behind by 14 points or so right off the bat thanks to muffed kickoffs and punts and other stupid turnovers and were forced to throw early and often and throughout the entire game.

It was also that same offense that got shut out twice in Jacksonville and Baltimore. The "genius" behind it? None other than Ken Whisenhunt.

lilyoder6
12-09-2008, 04:49 PM
this yr we have played some rly good def teams.. like i said 8 out of the top 16 we played and we play against the number 2 and 3 in the next 2 weeks....

Is it poor play-calling skills, Is it that the def are good and play up to there name, Or is it a combination of both?

xbroughneck
12-09-2008, 06:07 PM
WE passed 33 times to something like 24 runs in a game we were behind for like 3.5 quarters.

Yeah, we're second coming of the 99-01 Rams:coffee:

People need a goat. Some go after Ben, but he has a lot of loyalty. Most go after Arians because he truly is the easiest target. But, again, lets take a look:

Starks- 75% of the people here DESPISE Max Starks and call him an overpaid bum/bust
Kemo- Good run blocker, questionable pass blocker. Came pretty much out of nowhere and is a first year starter.
Hartwig- Off the Carolina scrap pile.
Stapleton- Another guy who came out of nowhere, 1st year starter, and apparently his weakness is run blocking.
Colon- I guess you'd have to say that he's arguably our best Olineman. He's a 4th round pick from Hofstra. A 2nd year starter.

This is Occam's Razor, people: The simplest solution is also the correct one. We have an Oline that is both inexperienced and unproven. They are actually strating to play better. It all starts up front. It's fine to blame Arians, but he ain't going anywhere, which is the REAL indicator that he's also NOT the problem.

I'm sure the Steelers are fully cognizant of where they rank and how their players are performing. The fans knowledge of the situation is optional.

So I guess we should all just pray that the weather doesn't go bad in Pittsburgh or any other place where the Steelers may have to RUN the ball more than they pass it during their playoff run. You can't just flip a switch and simply just say "we've thrown in 10 consecutive times...now lets see if we can run block for two plays.". There is no balance to the Steelers offense, and a pass happy offense is going to bite them in the playoffs unless they play Indianapolis.

I'm not saying the players aren't accountable.

I'm saying I don't like Bruce Arians' play calling. Not one bit. I also don't like his trip sets as run plays. I don't like that he doesn't use a fullback to block on more plays because he wants to overwhelm the defense (even though our pass blocking isn't that great).

Tomlin is new, so I cut him some slack.

This isn't Arians first stint as an offensive coordinator.

mdimart28
12-09-2008, 06:36 PM
We have taken steps to make our defense top notch this year. Next year we need to fix the offense. I believe Arians and the line coach need to go. I also believe that we need to add a couple of bodies to strengthen the oline. We have the talent on offense, we just need someone that knows how to use them.

mdimart28
12-09-2008, 06:37 PM
Go steelers!

SaskSteeler
12-09-2008, 06:44 PM
I think we need better o-line and we need ben to throw the ball quicker more than we need a new OC.

MillerMania83
12-09-2008, 06:45 PM
So I guess we should all just pray that the weather doesn't go bad in Pittsburgh or any other place where the Steelers may have to RUN the ball more than they pass it during their playoff run. You can't just flip a switch and simply just say "we've thrown in 10 consecutive times...now lets see if we can run block for two plays.". There is no balance to the Steelers offense, and a pass happy offense is going to bite them in the playoffs unless they play Indianapolis.

I'm not saying the players aren't accountable.

I'm saying I don't like Bruce Arians' play calling. Not one bit. I also don't like his trip sets as run plays. I don't like that he doesn't use a fullback to block on more plays because he wants to overwhelm the defense (even though our pass blocking isn't that great).

Tomlin is new, so I cut him some slack.

This isn't Arians first stint as an offensive coordinator.

I COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT ANY BETTER MYSELF....Of course the players are held accountable and have to execute, but like the man said here....I DON'T LIKE HIS PLAY CALLING, and it's JMO, but I can't tell ya how many times I'm watching the game at home and I'm saying, OUT LOUD, VERY LOUDLY, LOL, "what the he!! was that" or I'm just sitting there shaking my head as to where do some of these play calls come from, IMO, it's just BAD PLAY CALLING, BOTTOM LINE...Even when a play isn't executed correctly, many times IMO it's just a BAD PLAY CALLED....I'll say it again, BA MUST GO!!!!!

lilyoder6
12-09-2008, 09:10 PM
i think that on 3rd and long we should do a draw!!!

GridironWarrior
12-09-2008, 09:15 PM
The whole Oline, Oline coach and Arians needs to go.

HometownGal
12-09-2008, 09:20 PM
WE passed 33 times to something like 24 runs in a game we were behind for like 3.5 quarters.

Yeah, we're second coming of the 99-01 Rams:coffee:

People need a goat. Some go after Ben, but he has a lot of loyalty. Most go after Arians because he truly is the easiest target. But, again, lets take a look:

Starks- 75% of the people here DESPISE Max Starks and call him an overpaid bum/bust
Kemo- Good run blocker, questionable pass blocker. Came pretty much out of nowhere and is a first year starter.
Hartwig- Off the Carolina scrap pile.
Stapleton- Another guy who came out of nowhere, 1st year starter, and apparently his weakness is run blocking.
Colon- I guess you'd have to say that he's arguably our best Olineman. He's a 4th round pick from Hofstra. A 2nd year starter.

This is Occam's Razor, people: The simplest solution is also the correct one. We have an Oline that is both inexperienced and unproven. They are actually strating to play better. It all starts up front. It's fine to blame Arians, but he ain't going anywhere, which is the REAL indicator that he's also NOT the problem.

I'm sure the Steelers are fully cognizant of where they rank and how their players are performing. The fans knowledge of the situation is optional.

:applaudit::applaudit: Wow of a post, Randy! :thumbsup:

Hartwig- Off the Carolina scrap pile.

:toofunny::rofl::laughing:

beSteelmyheart
12-09-2008, 09:26 PM
I always like to read these threads but will never reply with a love/hate opinion either way. Like most other fans of any sport I will always find fault in someone's play or playcalling but can't even comprehend what it would even feel like to work for the Pittsburgh Steelers, let alone being in such a position so who am I to tell them how to do their jobs?

lilyoder6
12-09-2008, 11:02 PM
don't hate on stapleton :crying01:

SteelCityKingsVP
12-09-2008, 11:18 PM
He will stay. You dont even need an "I" formation, just a blocker. The 49ers ran a lot from the "twin backs" (pro set, pony or whatever you call it) with Tom Rathman and did quite well.
http://det.scout.com/a.z?s=93&p=2&c=292767

the steelers arent the 49ers dude. they dont play like them never have never will. Although i agree that arians needs to go, he wont be. so we need a back that can make the short yardage happen

xbroughneck
12-10-2008, 12:26 AM
i think that on 3rd and long we should do a draw!!!

I remember how on third and long, early in Ben's career under Cowher, we would like clock work run a draw play on 3rd and long.


My problem with Arians' play calling is simply that he doesn't allow the run game to 1) develop a rythem 2) tire out the defense.

Sometimes his play calling just works. Yes.

But against a good team, if your offense can't impose it's will on the opposition with the pass you HAVE to be able to do something with the run.

To do something with the run the offensive line has to be prepared to run block.

Wanna know why the Steelers offense is considered soft? It's not because we don't have a 250lbs halfback trying to push through no holes. It's because the Steelers offense hasn't had to grind it out against tough teams.

I remember the Ravens game. We lost all those players because Ray Lewis was tougher than our entire offensive squad. The one guy that has EVER put Ray Lewis in his place on the Steelers was Dan Kreider. A Fullback that knew how to run block.

Arian doesn't believe in the importance of a fullback blocking.

I have yet to see a TE do it effectively CONSISTENTLY.

Again 29th ranked offense in the league and our offensive coordinator after 13 weeks has done what to adjust? Seriously, with our offensive woes have you really seen Arians change anything?

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-10-2008, 12:52 AM
the steelers arent the 49ers dude. they dont play like them never have never will. Although i agree that arians needs to go, he wont be. so we need a back that can make the short yardage happen

Dude, I've been watching Steeler games since 1978 and actually back then they did use a "twin backfield" (or Pony backfield) with Harris and Bleir.......the exact same formation that the 49ers used with Roger Craig and Tom Rathman. So, never say never :wink:

The I formation can be more of a power running formation, but the disadvantage is your tailback is much farther away from the line of scrimmage than in a Twin set. The twin backs are closer to the LOS and therefore rarely get caught in the backfield by a slow developing play. It allows for a lot more options of who and where you are going to run the ball.

Both the 49ers and Steelers used this formation successfully in short yardage, despite your lack of recollection of it. Arians talked about doing it, but I dont think he has had 2 decent RB's healthy long enough to run his "pony backfield".

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-10-2008, 12:58 AM
don't hate on stapleton :crying01:

Sorry, but not hatin' as much as pointing out that he is kind of a Keydrick Vincent guy in the way that he is an undrafted gem that played well when he was forced to because of injury. I think he will have a decent career as a backup journeyman, but never be a top notch starter.

He's a guy that was 285lbs and bulked up over 300lbs, but isnt that naturally strong mauler you want in the run game like Kemo, Ben Grubbs, Steve Hutchinson, etc. He gets to the LB's really well when there isnt a lineman over him though. Record a game and rewatch him......you will see what I mean.

Preacher
12-10-2008, 01:08 AM
So I guess we should all just pray that the weather doesn't go bad in Pittsburgh or any other place where the Steelers may have to RUN the ball more than they pass it during their playoff run. You can't just flip a switch and simply just say "we've thrown in 10 consecutive times...now lets see if we can run block for two plays.". There is no balance to the Steelers offense, and a pass happy offense is going to bite them in the playoffs unless they play Indianapolis.

I'm not saying the players aren't accountable.

I'm saying I don't like Bruce Arians' play calling. Not one bit. I also don't like his trip sets as run plays. I don't like that he doesn't use a fullback to block on more plays because he wants to overwhelm the defense (even though our pass blocking isn't that great).

Tomlin is new, so I cut him some slack.

This isn't Arians first stint as an offensive coordinator.

Interesting... because when you look at the stats, we throw 52 percent of the time and run 48 percent of the time. Now, when you remember that we have thrown about 20 screens to the receivers over the course of the year, that is almost a perfect balance.

So I guess your theory about not being balanced and instead being pass-happy doesn't really stand up to the facts does it?

Now, go back and look at the Cowher Superbowl years...

1995, We passed 100 times more than we ran. 2005, we ran more than we passed.

Fact is, execution is more important than whether we run or pass more often.

SB teams... (for the year)

07 50-50 run and pass for the Giants
06 , 56% pass by the colts.
05 I already said we ran more than pass the year before that.
04 Patricheats* 52% run to pass
03 Same.. 53% pass to run
02 Tampa Bay, 58 % pass to run
01 Patricheats* Run over pass by about 15 attempts, 50 50 (too lazy to do the math)
00 That vaunted Run first run always team of the Ravens? Nope. 50/50 run to pass (run about 20 times more than pass)
99 That "Greatest Show on turf" Well, really, the Rams only passed it 55% of the time.

______________________________________---


So what do we learn? To not beleive the myth about run first teams making it in the Superbowl. Actually, Balanced teams make it. The balance here looks to be about 53 percent pass first to about 52 percent run first.

Where do we fall? Oh yeah... 52 percent pass to 48 percent run.

Seems that we fall right in the balance for a Superbowl championship. So um, let's let go of the myth that we have become "Pass Happy" and also the myth that you have to run first to be a SB team.
.

Steelers & I
12-10-2008, 01:59 AM
Dude, I've been watching Steeler games since 1978 and actually back then they did use a "twin backfield" (or Pony backfield) with Harris and Bleir.......the exact same formation that the 49ers used with Roger Craig and Tom Rathman. So, never say never :wink:

The I formation can be more of a power running formation, but the disadvantage is your tailback is much farther away from the line of scrimmage than in a Twin set. The twin backs are closer to the LOS and therefore rarely get caught in the backfield by a slow developing play. It allows for a lot more options of who and where you are going to run the ball.

Both the 49ers and Steelers used this formation successfully in short yardage, despite your lack of recollection of it. Arians talked about doing it, but I dont think he has had 2 decent RB's healthy long enough to run his "pony backfield".

I remember the Twin backfield of the 1970's. I may be wrong but isn't the Twin set most effective when the offensive linemen "trap block"? I know that Chuck Noll utilized the trap game as well as anyone. I wouldn't mind seeing it implemented into the Steelers offensive system but I'm not sure how well the offensive linemen would be with the trap blocking scheme.

Sharkissle29
12-10-2008, 02:19 AM
Preacher, those numbers dont factor in running out the clock in the 4th quarter. the 99' rams DESTROYED some teams, and im sure they ran faulk all througout the 4th quarter.

Preacher
12-10-2008, 02:25 AM
Preacher, those numbers dont factor in running out the clock in the 4th quarter. the 99' rams DESTROYED some teams, and im sure they ran faulk all througout the 4th quarter.

Which means they were even more pass happy when the game was on the line. That logic then, would mean that we should actually be throwing the ball more, not less as some would argue around here.

xbroughneck
12-11-2008, 05:17 PM
Interesting... because when you look at the stats, we throw 52 percent of the time and run 48 percent of the time. Now, when you remember that we have thrown about 20 screens to the receivers over the course of the year, that is almost a perfect balance.

So I guess your theory about not being balanced and instead being pass-happy doesn't really stand up to the facts does it?

Now, go back and look at the Cowher Superbowl years...

1995, We passed 100 times more than we ran. 2005, we ran more than we passed.

Fact is, execution is more important than whether we run or pass more often.

SB teams... (for the year)

07 50-50 run and pass for the Giants
06 , 56% pass by the colts.
05 I already said we ran more than pass the year before that.
04 Patricheats* 52% run to pass
03 Same.. 53% pass to run
02 Tampa Bay, 58 % pass to run
01 Patricheats* Run over pass by about 15 attempts, 50 50 (too lazy to do the math)
00 That vaunted Run first run always team of the Ravens? Nope. 50/50 run to pass (run about 20 times more than pass)
99 That "Greatest Show on turf" Well, really, the Rams only passed it 55% of the time.

______________________________________---


So what do we learn? To not beleive the myth about run first teams making it in the Superbowl. Actually, Balanced teams make it. The balance here looks to be about 53 percent pass first to about 52 percent run first.

Where do we fall? Oh yeah... 52 percent pass to 48 percent run.

Seems that we fall right in the balance for a Superbowl championship. So um, let's let go of the myth that we have become "Pass Happy" and also the myth that you have to run first to be a SB team.
.

OK...so what you're saying is we're not pass happy. I can agree with that.

I also saying that the offensive players aren't executing in the current offensive scheme and the offensive coordinator doesn't seem to adjust to that fact.

The offensive side of the ball is underperforming this year, and I think Bruce Arians is as much to blame as it is us having 3 new offensive line starters, or Ben holding on to the ball too long.

Yeah, Arians doesn't coach Steeler offensive football. The Ravens and the Giants are who (offensively) I wish we mirrored our offensive scheme against.

Just an opinion. (One that's probably shared by Willie Parker) (http://www.postgazette.com/pg/08345/934197-100.stm)

We'll see how Arians offense stacks up against the Ratbirds this weekend. We couldn't run against the cowboys.

Preacher
12-11-2008, 05:35 PM
OK...so what you're saying is we're not pass happy. I can agree with that.

Ok

I also saying that the offensive players aren't executing in the current offensive scheme and the offensive coordinator doesn't seem to adjust to that fact.
The offensive side of the ball is underperforming this year, and I think Bruce Arians is as much to blame as it is us having 3 new offensive line starters, or Ben holding on to the ball too long.
I agree that our offense isn't executing like it did last year. Heck, if we executed like last year, we would be BURYING teams. However, look at our 3 rd quarter stats. It sure does seem like we are making adjustments at halftime.

Yeah, Arians doesn't coach Steeler offensive football. The Ravens and the Giants are who (offensively) I wish we mirrored our offensive scheme against.

Just an opinion. (One that's probably shared by Willie Parker) (http://www.postgazette.com/pg/08345/934197-100.stm)

I understand a lot of steeler fans are stuck in the past wanting run first, run always mentallity. BUt the fact is, we have moved to a balanced offense. So we can either keep complaining about it, or we can actually be excited about the fact that we are possibly within a game or two of the number 1 conference seed.

We'll see how Arians offense stacks up against the Ratbirds this weekend. We couldn't run against the cowboys.

And we probably won't be able to run here either. There is a reason why these are top 10 defenses. At least now a days, when the run is shut down, we can still drive through the air.

TeeJay
12-11-2008, 06:11 PM
Only The Clash have the answer to that!



:music:


...........What?

T.Richardson
12-11-2008, 07:16 PM
What I hate is that the Steelers cant run the ball worth crap, and then Arians calls a pass play, and then it backfires, and you guys reply by saying. "Horrible Play calling!!" or "Fire ARIANS!!" Yea...Running the ball on our 2 yard per carry average is going to win games..

NYC SteelersFan
12-12-2008, 03:31 AM
Interesting... because when you look at the stats, we throw 52 percent of the time and run 48 percent of the time. Now, when you remember that we have thrown about 20 screens to the receivers over the course of the year, that is almost a perfect balance.

So I guess your theory about not being balanced and instead being pass-happy doesn't really stand up to the facts does it?

Now, go back and look at the Cowher Superbowl years...

1995, We passed 100 times more than we ran. 2005, we ran more than we passed.

Fact is, execution is more important than whether we run or pass more often.

SB teams... (for the year)

07 50-50 run and pass for the Giants
06 , 56% pass by the colts.
05 I already said we ran more than pass the year before that.
04 Patricheats* 52% run to pass
03 Same.. 53% pass to run
02 Tampa Bay, 58 % pass to run
01 Patricheats* Run over pass by about 15 attempts, 50 50 (too lazy to do the math)
00 That vaunted Run first run always team of the Ravens? Nope. 50/50 run to pass (run about 20 times more than pass)
99 That "Greatest Show on turf" Well, really, the Rams only passed it 55% of the time.

______________________________________---


So what do we learn? To not beleive the myth about run first teams making it in the Superbowl. Actually, Balanced teams make it. The balance here looks to be about 53 percent pass first to about 52 percent run first.

Where do we fall? Oh yeah... 52 percent pass to 48 percent run.

Seems that we fall right in the balance for a Superbowl championship. So um, let's let go of the myth that we have become "Pass Happy" and also the myth that you have to run first to be a SB team.
.

All your numbers are based on ATTEMPTS not completions or yards per carry. Another words your numbers prove those teams had BALANCED PLAY-CALLING not BALANCED OFFENSE'S. Check where each team ranked in the rush and pass for that year and show us how many of those teams has 50/50 OFFENSE's not just OFFENSIVE PLAY's called. There is a huge difference.

NYC SteelersFan
12-12-2008, 04:10 AM
98' Broncos-3,624 pass yards and 2,468 rush yards
99' Rams- 4,353 pass yards and 2,059 rush yards (Ranked #1 in the pass)
00' Ravens- 2,815 Pass Yards and 2,199 rush yards
01' Patriots- 3,089 pass yards and 1,793 rush yards (Ranked #22 in the pass)
02' Bucs- 3,445 pass yards and 1,557 rush yards (Ranked #15 in the pass)
03' Patriots- 3,432 pass yards and 1,607 rush yards (Ranked #9 in the pass)
04' Patriots- 3,588 pass yards and 2,134 rush yards (Ranked #11 in the pass)
05' Steelers-2,926 pass yards and 2,223 rush yards
06' Colts- 4,308 pass yards and 1,762 rush yards (Ranked #2 in the pass)
07' Giants- 3,154 pass yards and 2,148 rush yards

As it can clearly be seen, the only teams to have won the Superbowl in the last 10 years using an offense as close to balanced as you can get was The 98' Broncos, 00' Ravens, 07' Giants and my favorite, the 05' Steelers.

The other teams offense's were clearly based on the pass as opposed to the rush by a near 2:1 ratio for most and even greater for some.

The 01' Patriots and the 02' Bucs are anomalies. The 02' Bucs ranked 15th in the pass, 27th in the rush but had the #1 defense in the league, defense really does win championships in thier case cause their offense was awful. The 01' Patriots on the other hand were 22nd in the pass, 13th in the rush and ranked #24 in defense. (I think we all know what happened that year. And I'm not just talking about Brady getting knocked out of the AFCCG by the Steelers in the first half without putting up any points and HoF'er Drew Bledsoe coming in as his F'ing BACKUP to light us up)

What do we learn from all this? Considering our passing offense is ranked at 20th with 2,587 yards and our rushing offense is ranked at 23rd with 1,350 yards; not only is our offense horribly unbalanced but it is a really, really bad unbalanced offense. But at least we have the #1 defense. Maybe we can pull a Bucs and win it all with just that.

pepsyman1
12-15-2008, 03:22 PM
I'm thrilled how Ben managed another magical comeback drive....it's obvious how good he really his running the no-huddle and having all the responsibility on his shoulders.

BUT on a broader note....we've had a majority of the same skill players for years and the fact that we can't run the ball is absurd. The only major change to the offense has been Arians. This guy has no success record anywhere as an OC and its obvious that having an effective running game has no value to him. If we had an exceptional offensive line, then maybe this one back setup might work a little better, but the reality is that the line is only fair and these 2 and 3 TE sets don't work. When the Pittsburgh Steelers are the worst in the league at converting on 4th down and their running game is a non-issue in 80% of the games, there is something wrong. We need a fullback, we need to give Parker the chance to be a real threat again....which will only make Ben THAT much more effective when teams won't be able to predict what we are doing anytime we aren't in no-huddle. Arians needs to go.

xbroughneck
12-15-2008, 03:26 PM
Just because the situation isn't getting better...until the Steelers are in dire straits (second week in a row the offense has bogged down), I thought I'd link to this informed article from a Steeler fansite (http://www.stillers.com/articles/2357.aspx) that goes over some of Arian's mistakes during this game.


Not satisfied with last week’s game-opening DGO penalty, Arians tried a new approach today -- earning a DOG penalty on the second play of the game, on a simple 2nd and 10 inches play. This insanity continued the entire game, with the playcall taking eons of time to get to the huddle, then the offense dawdling around getting set up, and then Hartwig snapping the ball at 0:01 or even 0:00. This foolishness forced Ben to burn a TO at 11:04 of the 4Q. Worse, it allowed Raven defenders to simply read the playclock all game long and gun their blitzes with little fear of being called offsides, knowing that either the ball had to be snapped at 0:01 or a DOG penalty would occur.



Arians’ short-yardage 3rd down offense, which ranked dead last going into the game at a 43.5% conversion rate, continued it struggles. Russell fully appeared to be stopped on a 3d & 1 plunge in the 2Q, but a poor spot by the ref kept alive a drive that culminated in a FG. Ben’s rollout and fumble in the 4Q was on another 3d & 1.



Perhaps the worst tactic seen all night was the sheer idiocy of wasting Heath Miller as an extra blocker in the backfield on numerous 3rd down passing plays. Sure, you want an extra blocker to protect Ben. But you’re big, talented, soft-handed TE who is the 3rd best all-around receiver on the entire team ?? Balt. faced a similar dilemma in slowing down James Harrison, and Cam Cameron, who is 10 times the OC that Arians is, used a backup tackle, Terry, to assist in the blocking. You didn’t see Cameron take Todd Heap and make him the designated pass blocker, which is exactly what Arians did for most of the first 3 quarters. Miller was kept in to block in the backfield on:



- 3d & 11, 1Q (no conversion)

- 3d & 6, 1st series of the 3Q (no conversion)

- 3d & 7, 5:00 3Q (Holmes actually converted this one)

- 3d & 6 (3 plays later, no conversion)



Folks...when the Steelers have home field advantage during the playoffs and are trying to play in snow, do you REALLY want the run game to be as bad as it is? No, I don't expect it to change this year. I'm just venting.

hindes204
12-15-2008, 03:38 PM
I'm thrilled how Ben managed another magical comeback drive....it's obvious how good he really his running the no-huddle and having all the responsibility on his shoulders.

BUT on a broader note....we've had a majority of the same skill players for years and the fact that we can't run the ball is absurd. The only major change to the offense has been Arians. This guy has no success record anywhere as an OC and its obvious that having an effective running game has no value to him. If we had an exceptional offensive line, then maybe this one back setup might work a little better, but the reality is that the line is only fair and these 2 and 3 TE sets don't work. When the Pittsburgh Steelers are the worst in the league at converting on 4th down and their running game is a non-issue in 80% of the games, there is something wrong. We need a fullback, we need to give Parker the chance to be a real threat again....which will only make Ben THAT much more effective when teams won't be able to predict what we are doing anytime we aren't in no-huddle. Arians needs to go.



here we go again :doh:

WE WON THE GAME DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!

NYC SteelersFan
12-15-2008, 03:38 PM
The ravens defenders using the play clcok as a countdown to perfectly timing a head-breaking snap on our quarterback, which most will blame on the o-line.

3rd and 1 and Arian's calls a pass that leads to a fumble in Raven's territory. Very reminiscent of the Colts game just before the half when Roethlisberger threw a sloppy pick on a 3rd and 2.

My favorite of the night, calling a spike on a 1st down on the Baltimore 4 with 1:04 left and a timeout and "someone" calls for Roethlisberger to spike the ball.

NYC SteelersFan
12-15-2008, 03:38 PM
who sucks more? arians or the punter

ooooh that's a tough one!

fansince'76
12-15-2008, 04:00 PM
Just because the situation isn't getting better...until the Steelers are in dire straits (second week in a row the offense has bogged down), I thought I'd link to this informed article from a Steeler fansite (http://www.stillers.com/articles/2357.aspx) that goes over some of Arian's mistakes during this game.

Not satisfied with last week’s game-opening DGO penalty, Arians tried a new approach today -- earning a DOG penalty on the second play of the game, on a simple 2nd and 10 inches play. This insanity continued the entire game, with the playcall taking eons of time to get to the huddle, then the offense dawdling around getting set up, and then Hartwig snapping the ball at 0:01 or even 0:00. This foolishness forced Ben to burn a TO at 11:04 of the 4Q. Worse, it allowed Raven defenders to simply read the playclock all game long and gun their blitzes with little fear of being called offsides, knowing that either the ball had to be snapped at 0:01 or a DOG penalty would occur.



Arians’ short-yardage 3rd down offense, which ranked dead last going into the game at a 43.5% conversion rate, continued it struggles. Russell fully appeared to be stopped on a 3d & 1 plunge in the 2Q, but a poor spot by the ref kept alive a drive that culminated in a FG. Ben’s rollout and fumble in the 4Q was on another 3d & 1.



Perhaps the worst tactic seen all night was the sheer idiocy of wasting Heath Miller as an extra blocker in the backfield on numerous 3rd down passing plays. Sure, you want an extra blocker to protect Ben. But you’re big, talented, soft-handed TE who is the 3rd best all-around receiver on the entire team ?? Balt. faced a similar dilemma in slowing down James Harrison, and Cam Cameron, who is 10 times the OC that Arians is, used a backup tackle, Terry, to assist in the blocking. You didn’t see Cameron take Todd Heap and make him the designated pass blocker, which is exactly what Arians did for most of the first 3 quarters. Miller was kept in to block in the backfield on:



- 3d & 11, 1Q (no conversion)

- 3d & 6, 1st series of the 3Q (no conversion)

- 3d & 7, 5:00 3Q (Holmes actually converted this one)

- 3d & 6 (3 plays later, no conversion)




"Informed" article? OK - looks to me like "Still Mill" is just another of about a million self-proclaimed expert armchair HCs with access to a PC and a blog site. I could start a blog about nuclear physics tomorrow, but that doesn't make me "informed" about it. The squawking about using Miller as an extra blocker and blaming his usage as an extra blocker for not converting 3rd downs really got me and is especially laughable. Does he realize that only 11 players are allowed on the field during play by one team? If we would've done what the "10X superior OC" Cam Cameron did and used a backup tackle as an extra blocker, Heath or another potential receiver would've had to come to the sideline anyway. Yeah, that would have really helped our cause in converting those 3rd downs. DUH! :dang:

lilyoder6
12-15-2008, 04:19 PM
but 76, these posters are rly good at picking apart the OC, b/c in madden they are da shit....

and w/ putting heath in the backfield 2 block.. that also can give us the option of a check-down/last min throw... or a screen

HometownGal
12-15-2008, 04:59 PM
Me thinks its time to put this thread out of its misery. We've all said our peace.