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View Full Version : The official "Fire Larry Zeirlein" thread.


El-Gonzo Jackson
12-09-2008, 02:58 PM
OK, its been quiet for a while and I honestly thought that Coach Z needed a shot this season to show that he could "coach up" the O line. I know the unit is riddled with injuries, but he should be able to come up with blocking schemes behind Starks, Kemo, Hartwig that could get yardage in the run game.

As much as I think he is a technician and a good coach, I think he has lost the attention of the O line and they dont respect him as much as Grimm, just because he isnt one of the "hogs".

I saw a thing on NFL films where Tomlin came over to the O line on the bench and yelled at them to stop talking and then said ...."now listen to the man." and let Zeirline speak to them. If he isnt getting their attention in a sideline "chalk talk" I think he has lost them. I wouldnt be surprised to see him gone in 2009.

Burghfan58
12-09-2008, 03:18 PM
I'm not sold on Z. The O-line is definitly the weak link of the team. He's had two seasons with poor to average results. Time for a change.:thmbdown:

BlastFurnace
12-09-2008, 03:49 PM
OK, its been quiet for a while and I honestly thought that Coach Z needed a shot this season to show that he could "coach up" the O line. I know the unit is riddled with injuries, but he should be able to come up with blocking schemes behind Starks, Kemo, Hartwig that could get yardage in the run game.

As much as I think he is a technician and a good coach, I think he has lost the attention of the O line and they dont respect him as much as Grimm, just because he isnt one of the "hogs".

I saw a thing on NFL films where Tomlin came over to the O line on the bench and yelled at them to stop talking and then said ...."now listen to the man." and let Zeirline speak to them. If he isnt getting their attention in a sideline "chalk talk" I think he has lost them. I wouldnt be surprised to see him gone in 2009.

Wow...that doesn't speak too highly of Z.

From what some of the O'lineman said of how Faneca refused to listen to Z last year, it makes you wonder if the respect was lost from near the beginning of his hiring.

Personally, I think the line has been better since Simmons went out, but although you don't have to like your coaches, you must respect them.

The Duke
12-09-2008, 03:53 PM
Wow...that doesn't speak too highly of Z.

From what some of the O'lineman said of how Faneca refused to listen to Z last year, it makes you wonder if the respect was lost from near the beginning of his hiring.

Personally, I think the line has been better since Simmons went out, but although you don't have to like your coaches, you must respect them.

hmm....what did he do near the beginning of his hiring :tap:

oh yeah, I remember :sofunny:

NYC SteelersFan
12-09-2008, 03:57 PM
I wouldn't be opposed at all.

BlastFurnace
12-09-2008, 04:06 PM
hmm....what did he do near the beginning of his hiring :tap:

oh yeah, I remember :sofunny:

LOL....I forgot about that. Coach Z sure made his mark with that one.

tony hipchest
12-09-2008, 04:29 PM
whats bruce matthews up to these days?

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-09-2008, 04:54 PM
hmm....what did he do near the beginning of his hiring :tap:

oh yeah, I remember :sofunny:

Come on....like you haven't hit REPLY TO ALL before by accident?? OK, maybe not to the NFL with porn :banging:

slippy
12-09-2008, 05:32 PM
it a result based league. unless we win the SB, coach Z must go.

i'd give arians one more year based only of the fact that it's impossible to run an offense without an o-line.

Steelman16
12-09-2008, 05:35 PM
Arians isn't as bad some like to believe. But Coach Z has to go.

If his players have no confidence in him, and he is unable to regain that trust, then it would only prove more detrimental to the team to keep him.

fansince'76
12-09-2008, 06:16 PM
it a result based league. unless we win the SB, coach Z must go.

i'd give arians one more year based only of the fact that it's impossible to run an offense without an o-line.

So how long of a leash does Tomlin get? Please bear in mind that Cowher didn't win his first playoff game until his 3rd season as coach. Not trying to start anything, just curious.

Preacher
12-09-2008, 06:25 PM
So how long of a leash does Tomlin get? Please bear in mind that Cowher didn't win his first playoff game until his 3rd season as coach. Not trying to start anything, just curious.

True.

I was ready to come in here and say "here we go again"

But there was a point made in this thread that really does make sense. I wonder if Faneca's idiocy last year and Z's refusal to deal with it via benching him destroyed credibility.

It may be that Z just needs a new start someplace. However, it may be the fact that all the distractions last year plus the injuries this year have us just now coming out on the oline like its the first or second game of the season.

I have to admit, the first two quarters yesterday, that line looked really good. matter of fact, there were only a handful of plays where they looked like the line we are used to this year.

So I do see progress. Just how much and how quickly is going to be the key... the next two weeks will tell a lot, since we are going up against some REAL good defenses. . . number 2 and 3 in yards per game (total) and points per game.

I will reserve judgment until I see how we play against that!

(BTW, Dallas in top 10 in rush yards, pass yards, and total yards per game allowed. Not so much in points per game, but remember they had a couple games early that were high scoring... so in essence, we did face a top 10 defense this last week).

SunshineMan21
12-09-2008, 06:34 PM
The problem is that's it hard to ask a coach to 'coach up' players because it isn't clear our current O-Line is comprised of guys who should actually be starting.

Michael Keller
12-09-2008, 06:40 PM
it a result based league. unless we win the SB, coach Z must go.

i'd give arians one more year based only of the fact that it's impossible to run an offense without an o-line.

It is impossible to be an Offensive Coordinator in the NFL if you can't think quickly , be creaive and be so obstinate in running the same same predictable goal line plays. I have watched Matt Cavanaugh grow in his job as a play caller at Pitt. I have not seen Arians improve one bit with the Steelers. Bruce has had his chance with Cleveland and Pittsburgh. He has been promoted to his level of incompentcy. He scares me in the play offs big time more than any single factor.

KeiselPower99
12-09-2008, 06:59 PM
If we fire him who do we hire?? Same with
Ariens. If he idnt gettin through to the team then yes he has to go but from what it sounds likeits Fanecas fault.

#1LambertFan
12-09-2008, 09:44 PM
Finally a fire Coach Z thread! I've been waiting for this since the first fire Arians thread surfaced! We are the Steelers we run the football from the I behind a good O-line and play great defense, not like those fancy college teams we don't try to use technique to do the job. We force our will in the running game and we RAM THE DAMN FOOTBALL DOWN THEIR THROATS, KNOCKING OUT EVERY ONE IN OUR WAY, AND LEAVING THEM WITH NOTHING LEFT BUT A BRUISED EGO AND SOILED PANTS...... yes, I do believe firing him would be in my best interest, and from the look of things everyone elses too.

#1LambertFan
12-09-2008, 09:50 PM
Those guys are all over 300 pounds and he stresses footwork and more than anything as an O-line coach. My brother is 6 years old and he knows an O-line needs to be strong and willing to hit anything and everything with all they've got. Sad thing is that even HE criticizes our O-lines play this year. I don't like this issue. It is only a couple steps away from having a bad defense. WHOA that'd be the day. I can see me going on a rampage if that happened.

devilsdancefloor
12-09-2008, 09:54 PM
whats bruce matthews up to these days?

he would be good, but i also thought of Dermontti Dawson or even Jackie Slater they where both awesome and knows what it takes to be a lineman.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-09-2008, 09:57 PM
"

But there was a point made in this thread that really does make sense. I wonder if Faneca's idiocy last year and Z's refusal to deal with it via benching him destroyed credibility.

I have to admit, the first two quarters yesterday, that line looked really good. matter of fact, there were only a handful of plays where they looked like the line we are used to this year.

.
Preacher, I think Faneca's issues were with the head office. He reported and played and I dont personally think benching Faneca would have gained him any better relationship. I think the vets like Faneca, Starks, Simmons, Smith that had been around Grimm had a rapport with Russ because he was an NFL lineman like them.

As for thinking the first 2 quarters were good, I saw some decent play and rushes and also saw times of getting no movement on the line. I know Dallas is a solid defense, but producing something like 85 yards of offense in the first half.

While the offense looks better, I dont think the line is blocking any better than it was earlier in the year. We can honestly identify guys like Starks, Kemo, Hartwig as solid run blockers and I'm not seeing the production on the ground we should.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-09-2008, 10:13 PM
Those guys are all over 300 pounds and he stresses footwork and more than anything as an O-line coach. My brother is 6 years old and he knows an O-line needs to be strong and willing to hit anything and everything with all they've got. .

Unfortunately that is where you are incorrect. Footwork and Hand placement are possibly the 2 most important things in O-line play. That is what I like about Zeriline's style. Trying to hit a defender with "all you got" in run blocking will over extend the O lineman and he will get shed in a heartbeat by the DT.

The important thing is taking your first step in the direction of the play, then keeping a wide base and using short choppy steps until you can deliver a blow with your hands. Here is a link to a video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRIsDr367HE

Offensive linemen are smart technicians. Defensive linemen are slobbering savages that are always 1 step from being charged with assault. :wink:

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-09-2008, 10:19 PM
If we fire him who do we hire?? . There are always coaches waiting for their shot, or assistants who learn under greats like Alex Gibbs, Howard Mudge or Joe Bugel, etc.

How about Pat Ruel of USC or Stacey Searels of Georgia. Here is some info.

the No. 1 offensive line coach, Southern Calís Pat Ruel, is difficult to dispute. Ruel has cranked out a bunch of great offensive linemen in recent years - the two most recent being Sam Baker and Chilo Rachal.

Stacy Searels, who spent 2003-2006 at LSU before joining the Georgia staff for 2007.
All Searels did in four years at Baton Rouge was send five guys to the NFL, including All-Americans Stephen Peterman, Ben Wilkerson and Andrew Whitworth. Incidentally, Wilkerson won the 2004 Rimington Award.
http://tennessee.scout.com/2/764401.html

Steelers & I
12-09-2008, 10:39 PM
FIRE HIS A$$! :wave::wave::wave::wave:

jjpro11
12-09-2008, 10:43 PM
i dont even know if its coaching rather than talent anymore.. look at our special teams from a year ago to today.. everyone including myself was calling for the ST coordinator's head. we went out and got a few good STers like fox and bailey and now it is one of, if not the best special teams coverage unit in the league.

The Duke
12-09-2008, 11:29 PM
i dont even know if its coaching rather than talent anymore.. look at our special teams from a year ago to today.. everyone including myself was calling for the ST coordinator's head. we went out and got a few good STers like fox and bailey and now it is one of, if not the best special teams coverage unit in the league.

exactly. many were calling for Ligashesky's (?) head last year and in the offseason

Not a word about him now

Give Zeirlein some good linemen and then judge him

markymarc
12-10-2008, 07:05 AM
LZ should be fired just like Arians after the season. I just don't think his blocking scheme is good for this football team. I really do hope we focus on the OL in the off season.