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BlastFurnace
12-10-2008, 04:08 PM
http://www.postgazette.com/pg/08345/934197-100.stm

Parker laments passing of 'Steelers football'
Wednesday, December 10, 2008
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Willie Parker pines for the old days, when he would line up behind the fullback in the I-formation and blast through the line, daring a defense to stop the run.

He called it "Steelers football" but said it's disappeared over the past two seasons in favor of more passes and less conviction to use the ground game.

"I just don't think we should give up that quick," Parker said after practice today. "We're the Pittsburgh Steelers, everyone knows wer're going to run the ball -- or they used to think we'd run the ball.

"We pass the ball a lot now. We got away from Steelers football, Steelers mentality."

The Steelers have run 373 times for 1,350 yards, a total that ranks 23rd in the NFL. If they remain there, it would be their second lowest ranking since the team joined the AFC as part of the 1970 NFL merger.

They're not doing much better passing it either because the rank just 20th there, and 26th overall as an offense. The Steelers have thrown 400 passes and their quarterbacks have been sacked another 41 times trying to pass.

Parker, who has missed five games because of two separate injuries, leads the team with 597 yards rushing. He topped 1,200 yards in each of the previous three seasons and was leading the NFL in rushing last season when his leg was broken in the 15th game.

He said the philosophy has changed around the running game, that they don't believe in a lead blocker such as the fullback any more and their two tight end offense has not produced on the ground.

"Yeah, it's definitely a concern," Parker said. "I definitely think about it all the time -- why can't we run the ball? What's the difference between now and two years ago? So it's definitely being a concern, me being a running back."

The Steelers, under new offensive coordinator Bruce Arians in 2007 de-emphasized the fullback, then let their longtime starter Dan Kreider go in free agency. They've tried it with two hybrid players -- Carey Davis, a halfback/fullback, and Sean McHugh, a tight end/fullback.

"We get into two tights now," Parker said. "It's like without a fullback, [defenses] definitely know what's coming and they know where it's going. I don't know what it is but it's not being effective."

stillers4me
12-10-2008, 04:10 PM
I don't know what it is but it's not being effective."

Thank you, Willie.

:thumbsup:

43Hitman
12-10-2008, 04:13 PM
This could get interesting. I do miss our I-formations and think a full-back would definitely help our running game. The only thing is, we don't have a full-back anymore.

Dino 6 Rings
12-10-2008, 04:23 PM
I see it like this.

The reason you can't convert a 4th and 1 late in a game, is because you didn't spend the entire game pounding the defense into submission. Your O-line has zero confidence in running the ball because you haven't established a straight ahead rushing attack.

If you are lining up with a single back formation and throwing 70% of the time, the o-line isn't getting into its run blocking mentality where they spend an entire game just beating on the same guy play after play after play while running the ball.

Just as the QB needs to get into a rhythm, so does the O-line and the Running Game.

I don't believe it has anything to do with the talent, I believe its about the play call selection in specific down and distance moments.

realdeal
12-10-2008, 04:24 PM
This could get interesting. I do miss our I-formations and think a full-back would definitely help our running game. The only thing is, we don't have a full-back anymore.


I say put "fatboy" Casey back there and let him knock some raven teeth out!

steelreserve
12-10-2008, 04:24 PM
"So it's definitely being a concern, me being a running back."

I know you didn't mean it that way, Willie, but you inadvertently hit the nail right on the head.

Dino 6 Rings
12-10-2008, 04:45 PM
We need to Run the ball more, I don't care who's carrying it. Just run more please.

jjpro11
12-10-2008, 04:59 PM
we need to stop missing blocks on 4th and 1.. almost every time we are stopped short, it is because of at least one defender got a free shot at the rb.. even the bus would have big time troubles converting those. gary russell was hit high and low by two defenders in the backfield on the play vs dallas and had zero chance of converting that.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-10-2008, 05:12 PM
"We get into two tights now," Parker said. "It's like without a fullback, [defenses] definitely know what's coming and they know where it's going. I don't know what it is but it's not being effective."

He said what?? :jawdrop:

Oh, no ....you di'int!! :nono:

rich4eagle
12-10-2008, 05:15 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, not sure what to make of this

But Steeler football is about strong running game and strong D

since the running game has had problems converting 3 or 4th and less than a yard...........

I would say maybe passing more is a better option

In either case isn't it aboout winning.........

OOPS THAT SEEMS TO HAVE passed by in this thread

Preacher
12-10-2008, 05:17 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, not sure what to make of this

But Steeler football is about strong running game and strong D

since the running game has had problems converting 3 or 4th and less than a yard...........

I would say maybe passing more is a better option

In either case isn't it aboout winning.........

OOPS THAT SEEMS TO HAVE passed by in this thread

You know, for the first time in probably 2 years, on 2 different boards, I completely and whole-heartedly, without any reservation agree with you.

What is this world coming to!
:chuckle:

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
12-10-2008, 05:35 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, not sure what to make of this

But Steeler football is about strong running game and strong D

since the running game has had problems converting 3 or 4th and less than a yard...........

I would say maybe passing more is a better option

In either case isn't it aboout winning.........

OOPS THAT SEEMS TO HAVE passed by in this thread

I agree, but don't you miss our power football running game just a little bit?

T&B fan
12-10-2008, 06:01 PM
I see it like this.

The reason you can't convert a 4th and 1 late in a game, is because you didn't spend the entire game pounding the defense into submission. Your O-line has zero confidence in running the ball because you haven't established a straight ahead rushing attack.

If you are lining up with a single back formation and throwing 70% of the time, the o-line isn't getting into its run blocking mentality where they spend an entire game just beating on the same guy play after play after play while running the ball.

Just as the QB needs to get into a rhythm, so does the O-line and the Running Game.

I don't believe it has anything to do with the talent, I believe its about the play call selection in specific down and distance moments.

:thumbsup: you got it right :iagree:

BlastFurnace
12-10-2008, 06:13 PM
The thing I wonder is if we get that if Troy intercepts that ball against the Colts at the end of the half and takes it to the house and if Nate's 2nd touchdown catch against the Giants doesn't get called back...how much talk are we really having about the offense.

We would be 11-1. That being said, we are 10-3, we must be doing something right on offense.

The most encouraging thing about Ben's play of late is that he is not throwing bad passes that are getting picked off.

Preacher
12-10-2008, 06:28 PM
I see it like this.

The reason you can't convert a 4th and 1 late in a game, is because you didn't spend the entire game pounding the defense into submission. Your O-line has zero confidence in running the ball because you haven't established a straight ahead rushing attack.

If you are lining up with a single back formation and throwing 70% of the time, the o-line isn't getting into its run blocking mentality where they spend an entire game just beating on the same guy play after play after play while running the ball.

Just as the QB needs to get into a rhythm, so does the O-line and the Running Game.

I don't believe it has anything to do with the talent, I believe its about the play call selection in specific down and distance moments.

We are not. We are throwing the ball 52% of the time. And that includes when we have been down and have to make comebacks. The includes throwing screen passes which are basically stretched out running plays.

This notion that we are a pass-happy offense is the mental equivalent of believing the moon-landings happened in Hollywood.

It just ain't true.

V58
12-10-2008, 06:58 PM
Any Steeler fan must agree with the comments made by FWP. We can only hope it is a role call to the coaching staff to get the running game in order for the stretch!

Frankie3521
12-10-2008, 07:04 PM
This could get interesting. I do miss our I-formations and think a full-back would definitely help our running game. The only thing is, we don't have a full-back anymore.

Hmmm....I have always looked at Carey Davis as a FB, I don't really know though.

Frankie3521
12-10-2008, 07:07 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, not sure what to make of this

But Steeler football is about strong running game and strong D

since the running game has had problems converting 3 or 4th and less than a yard...........

I would say maybe passing more is a better option

In either case isn't it aboout winning.........

OOPS THAT SEEMS TO HAVE passed by in this thread

I would like to agree with you, but our running game is bad. If we had the running game we had a couple years back with this defense, we would likely be undefeated. Just because we are winning more games now doesn't mean we are better in all categories. Sure, I'm happier with this team overall than previous teams, but imagine if this team actually had a reliable running game...

43Hitman
12-10-2008, 07:15 PM
Hmmm....I have always looked at Carey Davis as a FB, I don't really know though.

Carey Davis is not a FB..He is a hybrid HB/FB who generally only makes one play every 3 games or so. And it's usually on special teams in the form of a good tackle. That to me is not a FB. Dan Krieder is a FB. Tony Richardson is a FB.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-10-2008, 10:30 PM
Carey Davis is not a FB..He is a hybrid HB/FB who generally only makes one play every 3 games or so. And it's usually on special teams in the form of a good tackle. That to me is not a FB. Dan Krieder is a FB. Tony Richardson is a FB.
:applaudit:

Lorenzo Neal, Mack Strong, Ovie Mughali, William Henderson, John L. Williams, Tim Lester and the list goes on.

XxKnightxX
12-10-2008, 10:35 PM
we need to stop missing blocks on 4th and 1.. almost every time we are stopped short, it is because of at least one defender got a free shot at the rb.. even the bus would have big time troubles converting those. gary russell was hit high and low by two defenders in the backfield on the play vs dallas and had zero chance of converting that.

Yeah McPuke just jumped into the pile like it was a party and Brady James just shot the gap, Kreider is on FA right now sign him dammit get him back.

SteelCityKingsVP
12-10-2008, 10:56 PM
You cant have a bus driver without "The Bus". Bottom line START BLOCKING!

lilyoder6
12-11-2008, 12:13 AM
davis has made some good blocks and prob could if he had a consistant amount of plays... and parker ailing 4 the old days... maybe he should get and stay healthy b4 he can talk about the past

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
12-11-2008, 01:37 AM
davis has made some good blocks and prob could if he had a consistant amount of plays... and parker ailing 4 the old days... maybe he should get and stay healthy b4 he can talk about the past

Maybe he could if he wasn't getting clobbered constantly

NYC SteelersFan
12-11-2008, 01:57 AM
http://www.postgazette.com/pg/08345/934197-100.stm

Parker laments passing of 'Steelers football'
Wednesday, December 10, 2008
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Willie Parker pines for the old days, when he would line up behind the fullback in the I-formation and blast through the line, daring a defense to stop the run.

He called it "Steelers football" but said it's disappeared over the past two seasons in favor of more passes and less conviction to use the ground game.

"I just don't think we should give up that quick," Parker said after practice today. "We're the Pittsburgh Steelers, everyone knows wer're going to run the ball -- or they used to think we'd run the ball.

"We pass the ball a lot now. We got away from Steelers football, Steelers mentality."

The Steelers have run 373 times for 1,350 yards, a total that ranks 23rd in the NFL. If they remain there, it would be their second lowest ranking since the team joined the AFC as part of the 1970 NFL merger.

They're not doing much better passing it either because the rank just 20th there, and 26th overall as an offense. The Steelers have thrown 400 passes and their quarterbacks have been sacked another 41 times trying to pass.

Parker, who has missed five games because of two separate injuries, leads the team with 597 yards rushing. He topped 1,200 yards in each of the previous three seasons and was leading the NFL in rushing last season when his leg was broken in the 15th game.

He said the philosophy has changed around the running game, that they don't believe in a lead blocker such as the fullback any more and their two tight end offense has not produced on the ground.

"Yeah, it's definitely a concern," Parker said. "I definitely think about it all the time -- why can't we run the ball? What's the difference between now and two years ago? So it's definitely being a concern, me being a running back."

The Steelers, under new offensive coordinator Bruce Arians in 2007 de-emphasized the fullback, then let their longtime starter Dan Kreider go in free agency. They've tried it with two hybrid players -- Carey Davis, a halfback/fullback, and Sean McHugh, a tight end/fullback.

"We get into two tights now," Parker said. "It's like without a fullback, [defenses] definitely know what's coming and they know where it's going. I don't know what it is but it's not being effective."

lol....Fast WIlliiiiieeee! You may not run the ball well anymore but you sure as heck no offense's and defense's better than the offensive coordinator on your team. Fire Arians and make Parker the offensive coordinator.

I see it like this.

The reason you can't convert a 4th and 1 late in a game, is because you didn't spend the entire game pounding the defense into submission.

This is absolutely key! This is what Bettis did best.

NoFieldFive
12-11-2008, 01:59 AM
With the Steelers miserable record on fourth down attempts and lack of goal line scoring, I'd put Troy in the backfield and have him jump over the line for the needed yard or two. Steeler's need these first downs and touchdowns and may not continue to win big games getting to the 2 yard line and coming away with 3 points or zero points. If they don't give Troy a try then just have Ben take it. The backs are getting hammered in the backfield for no gains and losses on these plays. Another option would be a pass to Miller. Parker and Moore are not showing to be effective short yardage backs. Now, if they had kept Davenport then he'd be a short yardage guy but he got on someone's shit list or probably the domestics the Steeler's owners don't go for.

Ben's had some great drives with little time left at the end of several games. I'd come out and go hurry up offense more often. going deep to Nate Washington has had success too.

Steelers & I
12-11-2008, 03:14 AM
Is Willie Parker a member of this forum????? :rofl:

By God I've seen those EXACT statements posted by SEVERAL members of this forum. Willie, what's your nickname in this forum? Come on man, we know you're here. You must be here, we've seen those SAME comments posted by 100 or so members.

Oh well, let the Arians supporters shoot Parker's comments down also :blah:. I mean after all, what in the hell does Parker know :noidea:? He's just a member of the team who has MORE INSIGHT than anyone posting in this forum. :laughing:

Steelers & I
12-11-2008, 03:23 AM
We are not. We are throwing the ball 52% of the time. And that includes when we have been down and have to make comebacks. The includes throwing screen passes which are basically stretched out running plays.

This notion that we are a pass-happy offense is the mental equivalent of believing the moon-landings happened in Hollywood.

It just ain't true.


You're right, it's not true, 52% proves it. No argument from me.

So maybe it should be phrased in another manner.

"The Steelers are "pass happy" when faced with downs and distances that SCREAM for a run play".

Galax Steeler
12-11-2008, 04:03 AM
I think bettis has spoiled us all but our running game could improve alot with a good full back untill this happpens you ain't going to see a good running game.

stillers4me
12-11-2008, 05:24 AM
Is Willie Parker a member of this forum????? :rofl:

By God I've seen those EXACT statements posted by SEVERAL members of this forum. Willie, what's your nickname in this forum? Come on man, we know you're here. You must be here, we've seen those SAME comments posted by 100 or so members.

Oh well, let the Arians supporters shoot Parker's comments down also :blah:. I mean after all, what in the hell does Parker know :noidea:? He's just a member of the team who has MORE INSIGHT than anyone posting in this forum. :laughing:

If Willie is saying it publicly, than it's being discussed among the players. I don't think they are happy with how it's been played out for the last 2 years, It sounds like they gave Arians the chance as new coach and gave it a try his way. New coach, new philosophy. Gotta give them credit for that. But they've come to the conclusion that it's just not working. You know that Tomlin can't be happy, either.

Yes, Arians simplified the play book. He took the training wheels off Ben and we began to see what our young QB was capable of.....taking the game in his own hands and making big plays. I give him credit for all that. But his way has hit a wall and here we are..... on the verge of another great playoff run with an offense that sputters it's way through the game. We are only winning because our D is magnificent and the fact that Ben can actually pull something out of his ass just enough to get it done.

As far as the fans go, if we pass the ball one more time on 3rd and 1, I think a bar stool is going to be thrown through a TV at a certain Steelers bar in Cinci! Last year, someone made computer banner and taped it across the bottom of the big screen TV. It said RUN THE BALL!.

Steelers & I
12-11-2008, 06:05 AM
If Willie is saying it publicly, than it's being discussed among the players. I don't think they are happy with how it's been played out for the last 2 years, It sounds like they gave Arians the chance as new coach and gave it a try his way. New coach, new philosophy. Gotta give them credit for that. But they've come to the conclusion that it's just not working. You know that Tomlin can't be happy, either.

Yes, Arians simplified the play book. He took the training wheels off Ben and we began to see what our young QB was capable of.....taking the game in his own hands and making big plays. I give him credit for all that. But his way has hit a wall and here we are..... on the verge of another great playoff run with an offense that sputters it's way through the game. We are only winning because our D is magnificent and the fact that Ben can actually pull something out of his ass just enough to get it done.

As far as the fans go, if we pass the ball one more time on 3rd and 1, I think a bar stool is going to be thrown through a TV at a certain Steelers bar in Cinci! Last year, someone made computer banner and taped it across the bottom of the big screen TV. It said RUN THE BALL!.

YES! That's my kind of party!

The Duke
12-11-2008, 06:21 AM
With the Steelers miserable record on fourth down attempts and lack of goal line scoring, I'd put Troy in the backfield and have him jump over the line for the needed yard or two. Steeler's need these first downs and touchdowns and may not continue to win big games getting to the 2 yard line and coming away with 3 points or zero points. If they don't give Troy a try then just have Ben take it. The backs are getting hammered in the backfield for no gains and losses on these plays. Another option would be a pass to Miller. Parker and Moore are not showing to be effective short yardage backs. Now, if they had kept Davenport then he'd be a short yardage guy but he got on someone's shit list or probably the domestics the Steeler's owners don't go for.


:rofl:

Dookie sucks at short yardage. Only reason he's with the colts is injuries

davis has made some good blocks and prob could if he had a consistant amount of plays... and parker ailing 4 the old days... maybe he should get and stay healthy b4 he can talk about the past

If Davis was given more plays I bet he'd get injured. 1 good block a game isn't good enough

And I agree, a healthier Parker can fix the problem. Thing is Wilie, just like ben, won't be able to get completely healthy until after resting in the offseason for a long time, and potentially having surgery

markymarc
12-11-2008, 08:29 AM
I really wish more players would be calling out Arians.

revefsreleets
12-11-2008, 09:09 AM
I will say this: I did question keeping Davis over Kreider, but, as I recall, that was Tomlins call not Arians.

I mean, I GET why Arians is getting blamed: He's the Steelers GWB, and everything on the team is his fault according to many haters, but that doesn't change the fact that Tomlin made that call.

I don't mind an H-back offense, and McHugh is a big guy at 6'5 265 lbs. Aren't we using him now as a blocking back on short yardage?

missedgehead
12-11-2008, 09:13 AM
If Willie is saying it publicly, than it's being discussed among the players. I don't think they are happy with how it's been played out for the last 2 years, It sounds like they gave Arians the chance as new coach and gave it a try his way. New coach, new philosophy. Gotta give them credit for that. But they've come to the conclusion that it's just not working. You know that Tomlin can't be happy, either.

Yes, Arians simplified the play book. He took the training wheels off Ben and we began to see what our young QB was capable of.....taking the game in his own hands and making big plays. I give him credit for all that. But his way has hit a wall and here we are..... on the verge of another great playoff run with an offense that sputters it's way through the game. We are only winning because our D is magnificent and the fact that Ben can actually pull something out of his ass just enough to get it done.

As far as the fans go, if we pass the ball one more time on 3rd and 1, I think a bar stool is going to be thrown through a TV at a certain Steelers bar in Cinci! Last year, someone made computer banner and taped it across the bottom of the big screen TV. It said RUN THE BALL!.


You hit the nail on the head. Good post. While I am glad that the STeelers have caught up with the rest of the league and realized this is a passing league, there are alot of situations where the team should have RUN THE BALL. In fact, Jamie Dukes, who I usually can not stand, on NFLN, mentioned what you just said about Ben, that Ben does just enough to get it done. Well, no offense, but that is not gonna be good enough for the playoffs. I don't blame Willie for saying what he said. Kind of hard to run the ball when your QB has a lot of say in the offense and loves the OC so much and wants to throw so much. Not surprised that Steelers football is RIP. :(

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
12-11-2008, 09:46 AM
I doubt Ben has access the the whole playbook. They usually give the QB a few plays to choose from, and go from there.

revefsreleets
12-11-2008, 09:49 AM
I doubt Ben has access the the whole playbook. They usually give the QB a few plays to choose from, and go from there.

I doubt that. I'm sure he has the whole playbook to work with...

Steeldude
12-11-2008, 10:13 AM
who here doesn't know when the steelers are going to run?

BlastFurnace
12-11-2008, 10:29 AM
who here doesn't know when the steelers are going to run?

The sad part about it is...many times in the past...we all knew that the Steelers were going to run...and so did the other team...and we all knew the other team couldn't do anything about it.

I don't want a turtle offense, but a balanced one. The players need to execute better.

lilyoder6
12-11-2008, 10:30 AM
the games i have watched when davis is in there.. he has made some good blocks... u or i rly don't know what would or could happen if davis is in there b/c we rly haven't seen him play in the system since bruce baby doesn't like fb's

devilsdancefloor
12-11-2008, 11:49 AM
Well if willie has little faith with BA who else on the offense feels the same way?? maybe this is why they are not executing? If he has lost the respect of 1 member of the offense you know it it is more like 3 or 4 member or more!

paw-n-maul-u
12-11-2008, 12:41 PM
How come noone believes that the steelers are seeing the last year of willie parker?

Parker has about 8 years on Mendenhall ... Seems to have lost a step, atleast this season ... and Moore is cheaper, blocks better, and catches passes (He is a much better fit for BA's offense)

With Smith and Starks surely gone ... coupled with a possible Parker and Simmons release or trade, free's up a lot of money to make a decent splash in FA this offseason along the trenches. And a solid draft ... I expect this offense to be top ten come end of 09 and definitely by 2010 season

rich4eagle
12-11-2008, 01:25 PM
You know, for the first time in probably 2 years, on 2 different boards, I completely and whole-heartedly, without any reservation agree with you.

What is this world coming to!
:chuckle:

Well, I believe you know the game way more than most. Perhaps, someday you shall understand just how much I understand and refuse to be a member of the herd. I get what wins and do not care what today's trend has become. I do know the NFL is a copycat world..............we live in.........me being way ahead of the herd or way behind......makes me way behind for ten years or so and then the epiphany........ I am suddenly leading edge again.........

West coast Offense......er Great Lakes offense invented in the forties........cover two, tampa two, deep zone, umbrella zone.........single wing, Wildcat, I formation, two back set, smash and dash, 4-3, 3-4.......QB must call the plays er send em in from the sidelines....and round and round......

funny how the names and schemes change from old to new and new to old.......but it all comes back to blocking and tackling and IMPACT and SKILL players who dominate games...especially QB's..........

As for the Steelers power running game it will take time to come back.......line cohesion is missing with all the changes...........and we have no Bettis with quick feet and the ability find the hole and then to push the pile

The power running game depends on a back who has vision quick feet and pushes the pile...........Mendenhall was drafted for that..........who knows if he will fit that ticket

Parker and Moore are not smash mouth backs.........more dash backs..........

The Steeler team now is all about Ben winning on offense and the Defense keeping them in the games ........until such time the power running game is reinvented........that will take some time with the current line play and feature backs
:tt::tt03:

atlsteelers
12-11-2008, 01:37 PM
Fire arians - promote fast willie to OC.

He could not do any worse. get a bruiser back at fullback and start running the ball with success on 3 and 1s.

The_WARDen
12-11-2008, 01:43 PM
correct me if I'm wrong...but didn't he have like 300+ carries last season and was leading the NFL in rushing when he got injured in week 15? I'd say that was a commitment to the run.

This year? Gee I don't know...how about get your injured butt out of the sauna and back onto the field and maybe the running game would resurface like it did in the 1st 2 weeks of the season when he was actually participating...

Show up or shut up Willie!

:coffee:

NYC SteelersFan
12-11-2008, 02:11 PM
If Willie is saying it publicly, than it's being discussed among the players. I don't think they are happy with how it's been played out for the last 2 years, It sounds like they gave Arians the chance as new coach and gave it a try his way. New coach, new philosophy. Gotta give them credit for that. But they've come to the conclusion that it's just not working. You know that Tomlin can't be happy, either.

Yes, Arians simplified the play book. He took the training wheels off Ben and we began to see what our young QB was capable of.....taking the game in his own hands and making big plays. I give him credit for all that. But his way has hit a wall and here we are..... on the verge of another great playoff run with an offense that sputters it's way through the game. We are only winning because our D is magnificent and the fact that Ben can actually pull something out of his ass just enough to get it done.

As far as the fans go, if we pass the ball one more time on 3rd and 1, I think a bar stool is going to be thrown through a TV at a certain Steelers bar in Cinci! Last year, someone made computer banner and taped it across the bottom of the big screen TV. It said RUN THE BALL!.

lol...That's why I don't like watching the games in public places, don't want to be held accountable for other's property.

good post overall. It worked last year but as you said, it has hit a wall. And if we don't get around that wall before the year is up, he should go.

NYC SteelersFan
12-11-2008, 02:15 PM
We are not. We are throwing the ball 52% of the time. And that includes when we have been down and have to make comebacks. The includes throwing screen passes which are basically stretched out running plays.

This notion that we are a pass-happy offense is the mental equivalent of believing the moon-landings happened in Hollywood.

It just ain't true.

52% is too much for the Steelers. 60%r ush/40% pass is more along the lines of Steeler's football. It worked for 10 years and it worked cheap. We didn't need extravagant free agents, loud mouth receivers or annoying, injuryprone "finesse" backs. It worked cheap, subtly and efficiently, it just plain worked and I see no reason for a change.

OX1947
12-11-2008, 02:25 PM
Parker's ability has nothing to do with the Steelers inability to make a dame first down with a yard to go. Problem is blockng up front and a real fullback.

it is a copy cat league. Everyone thinks a good way to win is to pass like Brady and Manning.

but I prefer to be like th Broncos in 97 and 98. Have a great QB have a great running game and let him play off that.

Makaveli
12-11-2008, 03:50 PM
Parker's ability has nothing to do with the Steelers inability to make a damn first down with a yard to go. Problem is blockng up front and a real fullback.

.


Exactly.

xbroughneck
12-11-2008, 04:37 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, not sure what to make of this

But Steeler football is about strong running game and strong D

since the running game has had problems converting 3 or 4th and less than a yard...........

I would say maybe passing more is a better option

In either case isn't it aboout winning.........

OOPS THAT SEEMS TO HAVE passed by in this thread

Why is the running game having problems converting on 3 or 4th and short? Because the playcalling during a game doesn't have any conviction. It's like we run simply because we don't want defenses to key off on Big Ben. You know what though, we run so poorly they are keying off on him anyway because they know our receivers and tight ends can't run block.

You know how you get better at run blocking? Repetition.

Preacher
12-11-2008, 04:46 PM
52% is too much for the Steelers. 60%r ush/40% pass is more along the lines of Steeler's football. It worked for 10 years and it worked cheap. We didn't need extravagant free agents, loud mouth receivers or annoying, injuryprone "finesse" backs. It worked cheap, subtly and efficiently, it just plain worked and I see no reason for a change.

Really?

I for one was quite tired of losing AFCCG's. You may be happy with it, but I prefer to go to and win a SB again. If you look at the last 10 years of SB's, those teams are BALANCED.

Which means what? You can either have "Steeler football" and keep losing championship games, or have a balanced offense and WIN.

Seems to me the coaches have made their choice. I for one fully back them. Now I want them to fix the line and the offense so that we can actually execute like last year.

stillers4me
12-11-2008, 05:25 PM
I don't blame Willie for saying what he said. Kind of hard to run the ball when your QB has a lot of say in the offense and loves the OC so much and wants to throw so much. Not surprised that Steelers football is RIP. :(

Just to set the record straight, that's not what my post insinuated nor do I believe that's what Willie is talking about. That's YOUR assumption about Ben. You have no idea what what Ben thinks or wants.

T.Richardson
12-11-2008, 06:03 PM
Why is the running game having problems converting on 3 or 4th and short? Because the playcalling during a game doesn't have any conviction. It's like we run simply because we don't want defenses to key off on Big Ben. You know what though, we run so poorly they are keying off on him anyway because they know our receivers and tight ends can't run block.

You know how you get better at run blocking? Repetition.

This is not going to help. Trying to run the ball almost 70% of the time is not going to work. You cant just run the ball and pray that Moore, Russel, or Parker get a big run. By that time, a team could be up by 10 points.

You guys gotta realize, Steelers football might have worked in the 70's. That was over 30 years ago, things have changed. Many finesse teams have beaten the Steelers over and over again. The Patriots are a pass first team, they have beaten the Steelers at Hienz Field TWICE! Finesse or balance teams win superbowls. Steelers football is dead.

Lets look at the teams that have won the Superbowl since...say 1990.

1990: The 49ers beat the Broncos. The 49ers were a pass happy team. That year Montana had 500 pass attempts.
1991: The Giants beat the Bills. Hostetler completed 20 of 32 passes for 222 yards and one touchdown. Anderson rushed 21 times for 102 yards and a touchdown, This balanced offense allowed them to win the game.
1992: The Redskins beat the Bills. Rypien completed 18 of 33 passes for 2 TD's, you guys would complain that this is not Steelers football, but it won them the superbowl.
1993: The Cowboys beat the Bills. Aikman completed 22 of 30 passes for 273 yards.Smith rushed 22 times for 108 yards. Balance!
1994: Cowboys beat the Bills. Aikman was 19 for 27 for 207 yards, Smith rushed 30 times for 132 yards. Balance!
1995: 49ers beat the Dolphins. Montana completed 24 of 35 passes for 331 yards and three touchdowns. Not Steelers football.
1996: Cowboys beat the Steelers. O'Donnell choked. But once again the cowboys won with Balance! Though smith was stopped the whole game.
1997: Packers beat the Patriots. The Packers were balanced, but more of a passing team. Favre was 14-27 246 yards 2 TDs.
1998: Broncos beat the Packers. The Broncos were a blanced offense, with Elway, and Davis leading the offense.
1999: Broncos beat the Falcons. Again the Broncoss were a balanced offense.
2000. The Rams beat the Titans. The Rams were a pass happy team, and they beat the Titans.
2001: The Ravens beat the Giants. Balance. Dilfer attempted 25 passes, Lewis ran 27 times.
2002: The Patriots beat the Rams. Brady was 16-27, but they really didnt have a running game, but they won by balance
2003: The Buccanears beat the Raiders. Johnson was 18-34 Pittman had 29 carries. Balance!
2004: Patriots beat the Panthers. Again, The Patriots were balanced, but a little on the passing side.
2005: Patriots beat the Eagles. Again, balance with Brady and Dillon leading the way.
2006: Steelers beat the Seahawks. Bettis and Parker combined for like 23 carries, while Ben attempted 21 passes. Balance.
2007: Colts beat the Bears. Colts were a pass happy team, and beat the Bears. Though the Colts did have a running game, but they passed more.
2008. Giants beat the Patriots. Balance, but they did run the ball a bit more, but the Arm of Manning won.

The Majority of the teams that won, were balanced, and did not run the ball more than 35 times, some of these teams passed the ball over 30 times. Balance is the key to winning, Steelers football is not going to win superbowls in todays game. It did in the 70's and '80. But not now, not in the future. BALANCE!

NYC SteelersFan
12-11-2008, 06:06 PM
Really?

I for one was quite tired of losing AFCCG's. You may be happy with it, but I prefer to go to and win a SB again. If you look at the last 10 years of SB's, those teams are BALANCED.

Which means what? You can either have "Steeler football" and keep losing championship games, or have a balanced offense and WIN.

Seems to me the coaches have made their choice. I for one fully back them. Now I want them to fix the line and the offense so that we can actually execute like last year.

We didn't lose all those AFC championship games because we played Steeler football. As I recall we got to all those playoff games because of Steelers football. We lost because once we got there and played the dominant teams, our average, sub-average and awful players were exposed for the garbage that they were regardless of whether or not we played Steelers football. You should be amazed that you got to the AFC championship game with Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart and a rookie Roethlisberger, you shouldn't be surprised that those games were lost, two of the teams that beat us went on to win the Superbowl.

T&B fan
12-11-2008, 06:07 PM
I think bettis has spoiled us all but our running game could improve alot with a good full back untill this happpens you ain't going to see a good running game.

yup the bus . my brother and I would say "now whattya do with it " GIVE IT TO THE BUS :thumbsup: on just about every play :laughing:

If Willie is saying it publicly, than it's being discussed among the players. I don't think they are happy with how it's been played out for the last 2 years, It sounds like they gave Arians the chance as new coach and gave it a try his way. New coach, new philosophy. Gotta give them credit for that. But they've come to the conclusion that it's just not working. You know that Tomlin can't be happy, either.

Yes, Arians simplified the play book. He took the training wheels off Ben and we began to see what our young QB was capable of.....taking the game in his own hands and making big plays. I give him credit for all that. But his way has hit a wall and here we are..... on the verge of another great playoff run with an offense that sputters it's way through the game. We are only winning because our D is magnificent and the fact that Ben can actually pull something out of his ass just enough to get it done.
As far as the fans go, if we pass the ball one more time on 3rd and 1, I think a bar stool is going to be thrown through a TV at a certain Steelers bar in Cinci! Last year, someone made computer banner and taped it across the bottom of the big screen TV. It said RUN THE BALL!.

and some times theres nothing left in his ass :toofunny:
as for the 3rd and 1 pass plays I here you , but that gos with the frist quote from galax steeler. the Bus

Preacher
12-11-2008, 06:09 PM
We didn't lose all those AFC championship games because we played Steeler football. As I recall we got to all those playoff games because of Steelers football. We lost because once we got there and played the dominant teams, our average, sub-average and awful players were exposed for the garbage that they were regardless of whether or not we played Steelers football. You should be amazed that you got to the AFC championship game with Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart and a rookie Roethlisberger, you shouldn't be surprised that those games were lost.

No. I am amazed that we never learned that we had to both run AND THROW the ball. That once we got down, our team was not able to put up the points to mount big comebacks, unlike this year.

Sorry, you will never convince me, and the stats of the SB teams are on my side. SB winning teams are, for a VERY LARGE MAJORITY, balanced teams with a tad edge in passing the ball.

Preacher
12-11-2008, 06:10 PM
This is not going to help. Trying to run the ball almost 70% of the time is not going to work. You cant just run the ball and pray that Moore, Russel, or Parker get a big run. By that time, a team could be up by 10 points.

You guys gotta realize, Steelers football might have worked in the 70's. That was over 30 years ago, things have changed. Many finesse teams have beaten the Steelers over and over again. The Patriots are a pass first team, they have beaten the Steelers at Hienz Field TWICE! Finesse or balance teams win superbowls. Steelers football is dead.

Lets look at the teams that have won the Superbowl since...say 1990.

1990: The 49ers beat the Broncos. The 49ers were a pass happy team. That year Montana had 500 pass attempts.
1991: The Giants beat the Bills. Hostetler completed 20 of 32 passes for 222 yards and one touchdown. Anderson rushed 21 times for 102 yards and a touchdown, This balanced offense allowed them to win the game.
1992: The Redskins beat the Bills. Rypien completed 18 of 33 passes for 2 TD's, you guys would complain that this is not Steelers football, but it won them the superbowl.
1993: The Cowboys beat the Bills. Aikman completed 22 of 30 passes for 273 yards.Smith rushed 22 times for 108 yards. Balance!
1994: Cowboys beat the Bills. Aikman was 19 for 27 for 207 yards, Smith rushed 30 times for 132 yards. Balance!
1995: 49ers beat the Dolphins. Montana completed 24 of 35 passes for 331 yards and three touchdowns. Not Steelers football.
1996: Cowboys beat the Steelers. O'Donnell choked. But once again the cowboys won with Balance! Though smith was stopped the whole game.
1997: Packers beat the Patriots. The Packers were balanced, but more of a passing team. Favre was 14-27 246 yards 2 TDs.
1998: Broncos beat the Packers. The Broncos were a blanced offense, with Elway, and Davis leading the offense.
1999: Broncos beat the Falcons. Again the Broncoss were a balanced offense.
2000. The Rams beat the Titans. The Rams were a pass happy team, and they beat the Titans.
2001: The Ravens beat the Giants. Balance. Dilfer attempted 25 passes, Lewis ran 27 times.
2002: The Patriots beat the Rams. Brady was 16-27, but they really didnt have a running game, but they won by balance
2003: The Buccanears beat the Raiders. Johnson was 18-34 Pittman had 29 carries. Balance!
2004: Patriots beat the Panthers. Again, The Patriots were balanced, but a little on the passing side.
2005: Patriots beat the Eagles. Again, balance with Brady and Dillon leading the way.
2006: Steelers beat the Seahawks. Bettis and Parker combined for like 23 carries, while Ben attempted 21 passes. Balance.
2007: Colts beat the Bears. Colts were a pass happy team, and beat the Bears. Though the Colts did have a running game, but they passed more.
2008. Giants beat the Patriots. Balance, but they did run the ball a bit more, but the Arm of Manning won.

The Majority of the teams that won, were balanced, and did not run the ball more than 35 times, some of these teams passed the ball over 30 times. Balance is the key to winning, Steelers football is not going to win superbowls in todays game. It did in the 70's and '80. But not now, not in the future. BALANCE!

And if you go and look up that teams YEAR END totals, they were balanced througout the year.

T&B fan
12-11-2008, 06:13 PM
[QUOTE=T.Richardson;494536]

.
1991: The Giants beat the Bills. Hostetler completed 20 of 32 passes for 222 yards and one touchdown. Anderson rushed 21 times for 102 yards and a touchdown, This balanced offense allowed them to win the game.
1992: The Redskins beat the Bills. Rypien completed 18 of 33 passes for 2 TD's, you guys would complain that this is not Steelers football, but it won them the superbowl.
1993: The Cowboys beat the Bills. Aikman completed 22 of 30 passes for 273 yards.Smith rushed 22 times for 108 yards. Balance!
1994: Cowboys beat the Bills. Aikman was 19 for 27 for 207 yards, Smith rushed 30 times for 132 yards. Balance!
QUOTE]

1991 -1994 don't count bills suck :rofl:

NYC SteelersFan
12-11-2008, 06:15 PM
This is not going to help. Trying to run the ball almost 70% of the time is not going to work. You cant just run the ball and pray that Moore, Russel, or Parker get a big run. By that time, a team could be up by 10 points.

You guys gotta realize, Steelers football might have worked in the 70's. That was over 30 years ago, things have changed. Many finesse teams have beaten the Steelers over and over again. The Patriots are a pass first team, they have beaten the Steelers at Hienz Field TWICE! Finesse or balance teams win superbowls. Steelers football is dead.

Lets look at the teams that have won the Superbowl since...say 1990.

1990: The 49ers beat the Broncos. The 49ers were a pass happy team. That year Montana had 500 pass attempts.
1991: The Giants beat the Bills. Hostetler completed 20 of 32 passes for 222 yards and one touchdown. Anderson rushed 21 times for 102 yards and a touchdown, This balanced offense allowed them to win the game.
1992: The Redskins beat the Bills. Rypien completed 18 of 33 passes for 2 TD's, you guys would complain that this is not Steelers football, but it won them the superbowl.
1993: The Cowboys beat the Bills. Aikman completed 22 of 30 passes for 273 yards.Smith rushed 22 times for 108 yards. Balance!
1994: Cowboys beat the Bills. Aikman was 19 for 27 for 207 yards, Smith rushed 30 times for 132 yards. Balance!
1995: 49ers beat the Dolphins. Montana completed 24 of 35 passes for 331 yards and three touchdowns. Not Steelers football.
1996: Cowboys beat the Steelers. O'Donnell choked. But once again the cowboys won with Balance! Though smith was stopped the whole game.
1997: Packers beat the Patriots. The Packers were balanced, but more of a passing team. Favre was 14-27 246 yards 2 TDs.
1998: Broncos beat the Packers. The Broncos were a blanced offense, with Elway, and Davis leading the offense.
1999: Broncos beat the Falcons. Again the Broncoss were a balanced offense.
2000. The Rams beat the Titans. The Rams were a pass happy team, and they beat the Titans.
2001: The Ravens beat the Giants. Balance. Dilfer attempted 25 passes, Lewis ran 27 times.
2002: The Patriots beat the Rams. Brady was 16-27, but they really didnt have a running game, but they won by balance
2003: The Buccanears beat the Raiders. Johnson was 18-34 Pittman had 29 carries. Balance!
2004: Patriots beat the Panthers. Again, The Patriots were balanced, but a little on the passing side.
2005: Patriots beat the Eagles. Again, balance with Brady and Dillon leading the way.
2006: Steelers beat the Seahawks. Bettis and Parker combined for like 23 carries, while Ben attempted 21 passes. Balance.
2007: Colts beat the Bears. Colts were a pass happy team, and beat the Bears. Though the Colts did have a running game, but they passed more.
2008. Giants beat the Patriots. Balance, but they did run the ball a bit more, but the Arm of Manning won.

The Majority of the teams that won, were balanced, and did not run the ball more than 35 times, some of these teams passed the ball over 30 times. Balance is the key to winning, Steelers football is not going to win superbowls in todays game. It did in the 70's and '80. But not now, not in the future. BALANCE!

Richardson, you skewed stats horribly to prove your point, the main one I will point to is the Steelers in 2006, which you conveniantly left out Roethlisberger's spectacular numbers of 21 attempts for 9 completions and 2 interceptions. I have no clue where you see balance in this game?

And how many plays they run on either side of the ball is balanced play calling, that doesn't mean it translates into a balanced offense. If you run 25 carries for 0 yards and 25 passes for 300 yards, that does not translate into a balanced offense.

And showing stats for one game is meaningless, show where each one of the those Superbowl winners of the last 10 years ranked in offense (rush and pass) that year, not just in one game.

NYC SteelersFan
12-11-2008, 06:24 PM
No. I am amazed that we never learned that we had to both run AND THROW the ball. That once we got down, our team was not able to put up the points to mount big comebacks, unlike this year.

Sorry, you will never convince me, and the stats of the SB teams are on my side. SB winning teams are, for a VERY LARGE MAJORITY, balanced teams with a tad edge in passing the ball.

Throw it to WHO? and by WHO? Kordell to Thigpen? O'Donnell to Green? I don't what you expected from those teams, no play-calling would have helped those players. And we did pass plenty with those guys, just go look how many interceptions O'Donnell and Kordell have in playoff games. I'll give you a hint, 16 INT's in 11 games.

I won't try to convince you cause it is clear that you believe what you believe and that is fine, but that doesn't change the fact. You're very LARGE MAJORITY had the personell to run a "Balanced" team with a tad edge in passing the ball. Yet somehow the Steelers won with 123 passing yards and 2 INT's on 9 completions out of 21 attempts. If we were balanced in that game then that means we rushed the ball 18 times for about 45 yards and 2 fumbles.

T.Richardson
12-11-2008, 06:24 PM
Richardson, you skewed stats horribly to prove your point, the main one I will point to is the Steelers in 2006, which you conveniantly left out Roethlisberger's spectacular numbers of 21 attempts for 9 completions and 2 interceptions. I have no clue where you see balance in this game?

And how many plays they run on either side of the ball is balanced play calling, that doesn't mean it translates into a balanced offense. If you run 25 carries for 0 yards and 25 passes for 300 yards, that does not translate into a balanced offense.

And showing stats for one game is meaningless, show where each one of the those Superbowl winners of the last 10 years ranked in offense (rush and pass) that year, not just in one game.

The 49ers, Rams, Packers, patriots were a passing team. The Bucs, Ravens, Broncos, Cowboys were balanced Teams.

Aikman passed about 400 times during the regular season
Montana passed 500 times in 1990
Warner passed 400 times
Favre passed 400 times
Johnson passed 300 times
Elway passed 300 times

Passing the ball worked for them, and they had a star RB to hand off to, smith, Faulk, Davis, ran the ball 300 times.

I say that would be balance, but there were pass happy teams such as the 49ers, Rams, and possibly Packers.

NYC SteelersFan
12-11-2008, 06:29 PM
The 49ers, Rams, Packers, patriots were a passing team. The Bucs, Ravens, Broncos, Cowboys were balanced Teams.

Aikman in 1992, and 1993 passed about 400 times during the regular season
Montana passed 500 times in 1990
Warner passed 400 times
Favre passed 400 times
Johnson passed 300 times
Elway passed 300 times

Passing the ball worked for them, and they had a star RB to hand off to, smith, Faulk, Davis, ran the ball 300 times.

I say that would be balance, but there were pass happy teams such as the 49ers, Rams, and possibly Packers.

Well then that puts a spike into your original premise that most Superbowl teams of the last 10 years had balanced offense's Richardson.

steelreserve
12-11-2008, 06:35 PM
I say that would be balance, but there were pass happy teams such as the 49ers, Rams, and possibly Packers.

Yeah, but I've got to say, being "pass happy" works really well when you've got two Hall of Fame quarterbacks throwing to Jerry Rice, or Warner in his best years throwing to Isaac Bruce. It also helps to have Hall of Fame caliber or very near Hall of Fame caliber running backs like Faulk and Roger Craig.

Bottom line, you play to your strengths, and even though the 49ers and Rams leaned toward the pass, it would've been pretty hard for them to f**k things up just by using an offensive scheme that leaned the other way. That probably holds true for a lot of Super Bowl winners. I can't say I think the Cowboys would've been any less dominant if they'd thrown more than they ran, or vice versa.

If you have weaknesses in your game, you can seriously mess things up with the wrong offensive scheme, and that's happened to too many teams to count. If you make the playoffs, you've probably got it more right than wrong.

T.Richardson
12-11-2008, 06:38 PM
Well then that puts a spike into your original premise that most Superbowl teams of the last 10 years had balanced offense's Richardson.

Well..ok. But my point is, in order for the steelers to win the superbowl they need to run and pass the ball. I would like the Steelers to play an offense like the 90's Cowboys. They Passed and Ran the ball sometimes it was effective, sometimes it was not. But they had three offensive stars in Irvin, Aikman, and Smith, and it worked to their advantage.

Last year Ben passed 400 times and had career highs, Parker led the NFL in rushing yards with about 300 attempts. Though sometimes Parker was not effective, but this happens to alot of teams. Emmit Smith had like what? 50 yards against the Steelers in 96? He wasnt effective, but Cowboys still won.

T.Richardson
12-11-2008, 06:42 PM
Yeah, but I've got to say, being "pass happy" works really well when you've got two Hall of Fame quarterbacks throwing to Jerry Rice, or Warner in his best years throwing to Isaac Bruce. It also helps to have Hall of Fame caliber or very near Hall of Fame caliber running backs like Faulk and Roger Craig.

Bottom line, you play to your strengths, and even though the 49ers and Rams leaned toward the pass, it would've been pretty hard for them to f**k things up just by using an offensive scheme that leaned the other way. That probably holds true for a lot of Super Bowl winners. I can't say I think the Cowboys would've been any less dominant if they'd thrown more than they ran, or vice versa.

If you have weaknesses in your game, you can seriously mess things up with the wrong offensive scheme, and that's happened to too many teams to count. If you make the playoffs, you've probably got it more right than wrong.

Right now, the running game is the steelers weakness.

NYC SteelersFan
12-11-2008, 06:51 PM
Yeah, but I've got to say, being "pass happy" works really well when you've got two Hall of Fame quarterbacks throwing to Jerry Rice, or Warner in his best years throwing to Isaac Bruce. It also helps to have Hall of Fame caliber or very near Hall of Fame caliber running backs like Faulk and Roger Craig.

Bottom line, you play to your strengths, and even though the 49ers and Rams leaned toward the pass, it would've been pretty hard for them to f**k things up just by using an offensive scheme that leaned the other way. That probably holds true for a lot of Super Bowl winners. I can't say I think the Cowboys would've been any less dominant if they'd thrown more than they ran, or vice versa.

If you have weaknesses in your game, you can seriously mess things up with the wrong offensive scheme, and that's happened to too many teams to count. If you make the playoffs, you've probably got it more right than wrong.

Agree

Well..ok. But my point is, in order for the steelers to win the superbowl they need to run and pass the ball. I would like the Steelers to play an offense like the 90's Cowboys. They Passed and Ran the ball sometimes it was effective, sometimes it was not. But they had three offensive stars in Irvin, Aikman, and Smith, and it worked to their advantage.

Last year Ben passed 400 times and had career highs, Parker led the NFL in rushing yards with about 300 attempts. Though sometimes Parker was not effective, but this happens to alot of teams. Emmit Smith had like what? 50 yards against the Steelers in 96? He wasnt effective, but Cowboys still won.

Roethlisberger-Ward is not Aikmen-Irving otherwise I would be asking for them to pass more also. And Parker can't shine Emmit's shoes and that offensive line was INASANE! You could've ran the ball for positive yardage behind that line Richardson.

Right now, the running game is the steelers weakness.

Agree

T.Richardson
12-11-2008, 06:59 PM
Agree



Roethlisberger-Ward is not Aikmen-Irving otherwise I would be asking for them to pass more also. And Parker can't shine Emmit's shoes and that offensive line was INASANE! You could've ran the ball for positive yardage behind that line Richardson.



Agree

Thats True.

Im not saying Ben and Ward are as good as Aikman and Irving. I mean Ward is a great player, but not better than holt, or Harrison, but Ward is a Superbowl MVP.How many recievers have that claim?

Im just saying if we passed a bit more effectively, arians should stick to passing and if running the ball isnt effective, the Steelers should not continue to run the ball because it isnt going to work. and vice versa. I think if the steelers played like last year, Tomlin and his staff should have stuck with that scheme, but right now its kinda hard since the running game sucks. So right now, passing seems like a good idea, because I think Moore, Russel, and Parker wont be able to run the ball well agianst Baltimore.

paw-n-maul-u
12-11-2008, 07:49 PM
I got destroyed on this board and others two years ago when I looked at all the Long runs for parker ... and how I felt like all he did was bust one or two long runs a game, a couple other decent ones sprinkles here and there ... and then basially 1 and 2 yarders or no gain or loss of yards.

Well. I had some convincing stats, people went crazy saying ... you can't discount the best and strongest part of Parkers game (breaking the long one)

Well. His longest run this year is 32 yards ...

I think everyone knows the problem with this team. Parker is going down ... the O-line is in transition ... and as great as ben is, SOMETIMES he holds onto the ball too long.

Drafting Mendenhall and Tony Hillis (a OT from a texas spread offense) ... it is obvious that we are probably going to go to a zone blocking and more spread attack. Mendenhall is the perfect back for that. Parker is not ... he's a one cut and go back. We put a bandaid on the offensive line with starks money (which turns out to be awesome)

there will be boatloads of money galore with no Smith, Starks, and possibly Parker and Simmons contract.

That means a big splash in FA, a strong draft along both sides of the trenches, and more O-line shuffling in 09.

However, in the long term (IF we keep up with our current trend of scoring big on first round picks) we should have a solid O-line with a lot of potential and some youth on D-line by 2010

lilyoder6
12-11-2008, 08:46 PM
in this age of the game,, u rly have to be BALANCED or damn close to it... i mean in some cases being more 1 sided can work 4 a while, but it won't work forever.. like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound...

thebus36idf
12-11-2008, 11:10 PM
We are not. We are throwing the ball 52% of the time. And that includes when we have been down and have to make comebacks. The includes throwing screen passes which are basically stretched out running plays.

This notion that we are a pass-happy offense is the mental equivalent of believing the moon-landings happened in Hollywood.

It just ain't true.

You mean the moon-landings really happened:laughing:

NYC SteelersFan
12-12-2008, 02:18 AM
You mean the moon-landings really happened:laughing:

Preacher was there when they happened along with watching us lose AFC championship games because the offense wasn't balanced, not because Kordell Stewart, Neil O'Donnell, Yancy Thigpen, Eric Green, Erric Pegram and Barry Foster were the ones running and headlining our offense's.

TeeJay
12-12-2008, 04:27 AM
Preacher was there when they happened along with watching us lose AFC championship games because the offense wasn't balanced, not because Kordell Stewart, Neil O'Donnell, Yancy Thigpen, Eric Green, Erric Pegram and Barry Foster were the ones running and headlining our offense's.

That makes no sense at all - What's going on?

Steelers & I
12-12-2008, 06:18 AM
Really?

I for one was quite tired of losing AFCCG's. You may be happy with it, but I prefer to go to and win a SB again. If you look at the last 10 years of SB's, those teams are BALANCED.

Which means what? You can either have "Steeler football" and keep losing championship games, or have a balanced offense and WIN.

Seems to me the coaches have made their choice. I for one fully back them. Now I want them to fix the line and the offense so that we can actually execute like last year.


Execute like last year?? You were tired of losing AFCCG's?? Last year's offense, if you'll recall, didn't even SNIFF AN AFCCG!

Steelers & I
12-12-2008, 07:07 AM
I don't believe that ANYONE has stated that THEY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A BALANCED OFFENSIVE ATTACK! NO ONE disagrees with a balanced attack, OK?

I've seen that one member has posted that the Steelers pass 52% of the time while running 48% of the time. They have defined that as a balanced offense. OK, factor this in as well, Steelers QUARTERBACKS have accounted for 30 of the Steelers 362 total rushing attempts. So essentially, Steelers QB's have accounted for nearly 10% of the Steelers total rushing attempts.

Now, what does that mean? It means that MOST of those QB rushing attempts, 10% of the Steelers total rushing attempts, have resulted from what?? A PASS PLAY OF COURSE!

So let's be real here, deduct "nearly 30" of the Steelers total rushing attempts from the rushing attempts category and add them to the passing play category, which currently stands at precisely 400 passing attempts. I mean after all, they were designed pass plays that were ultimately recorded as a rushing attempt. Not quite the rushing attack that I'm looking for. When I think RUSHING ATTEMPTS, I for some damn reason envision a RB as the ball carrier.

How do the numbers look now? 430 passing attempts versus 332 rushing attempts. Is that balanced?? Some teams would define that as a balanced offensive attack but we're not some teams, WE'RE THE STEELERS! My bottom line: The Steelers need to RUN THE BALL MORE OFTEN!

Obviously, with the Steelers offense being ranked 25th in the NFL, the current BALANCE ISN'T WORKING! :flap:

stlrtruck
12-12-2008, 08:13 AM
Here's a fan's advice for Willie.

SHUT UP AND RUN!!!!

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-12-2008, 09:34 AM
If we can step away from the stats for a second and just realize what we see. I think Parker is talking about running the football with a physical offensive line and physical lead blocker and sticking with that to establish the run. That is "Steeler Football" as he references. I dont think anybody would debate that this is not happening.

I dont think Willie is thinking of play counts and 52% of the plays are running plays or not. I think he's talking about when its 3rd down and 2 the Steelers look to pass the ball because they no longer have a physical running game. They never had it last year either. He's correct in his opinion, but its just the way the new offense is structured and people generally dont like change.

stlrtruck
12-12-2008, 10:20 AM
If we can step away from the stats for a second and just realize what we see. I think Parker is talking about running the football with a physical offensive line and physical lead blocker and sticking with that to establish the run. That is "Steeler Football" as he references. I dont think anybody would debate that this is not happening.

I dont think Willie is thinking of play counts and 52% of the plays are running plays or not. I think he's talking about when its 3rd down and 2 the Steelers look to pass the ball because they no longer have a physical running game. They never had it last year either. He's correct in his opinion, but its just the way the new offense is structured and people generally dont like change.

Good point EGJ. More to the point that O-line has not been as dominate as years past and we've had to attack defenses differently.

SteelMember
12-12-2008, 10:27 AM
If we can step away from the stats for a second and just realize what we see. I think Parker is talking about running the football with a physical offensive line and physical lead blocker and sticking with that to establish the run. That is "Steeler Football" as he references. I dont think anybody would debate that this is not happening.

I dont think Willie is thinking of play counts and 52% of the plays are running plays or not. I think he's talking about when its 3rd down and 2 the Steelers look to pass the ball because they no longer have a physical running game. They never had it last year either. He's correct in his opinion, but its just the way the new offense is structured and people generally dont like change.

I understand your point, but I don't think that's how it's being taken when the voices from the team itself, not only fans, are making this correlation.

Coach Mike Tomlin said he doesn't think Willie Parker is uninformed and selfish. But he said the comments the two-time Pro Bowl running back made about the Steelers' offense could be construed that way, and he angrily reminded Parker and all the players about it in a team meeting.
"There's only one ball to go around," Ward said. "Yes, we all want the ball, but right now we don't need to have distractions. It's all about the team. We're 10-3, and whatever we rank in offensive stats, we got to put all that aside with egos.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08347/934666-66.stm

Steelers & I
12-12-2008, 10:43 AM
If we can step away from the stats for a second and just realize what we see. I think Parker is talking about running the football with a physical offensive line and physical lead blocker and sticking with that to establish the run. That is "Steeler Football" as he references. I dont think anybody would debate that this is not happening.

I dont think Willie is thinking of play counts and 52% of the plays are running plays or not. I think he's talking about when its 3rd down and 2 the Steelers look to pass the ball because they no longer have a physical running game. They never had it last year either. He's correct in his opinion, but its just the way the new offense is structured and people generally dont like change.


Agreed, and people especially hate change that's INEFFECTIVE!

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-12-2008, 11:21 AM
I understand your point, but I don't think that's how it's being taken when the voices from the team itself, not only fans, are making this correlation.




http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08347/934666-66.stm

I think Tomlin and Ward are just saying...."be quiet and lets keep it in house". They are circling the wagons of a 10-3 team and trying to take it one game at a time and get it fixed. Willie seemingly is saying that if you cant run the ball in December and January, you normally cant win in the playoffs and some would agree. Tomlin is saying lets keep our head down and work on thing and take it one game at a time.

It reminds me of a good analogy.

A lumberjack has been hired to cut down all the trees on a man's farm. He begins cutting tirelessly without a break and his son tries to tell him something. The Lumberjack tells the boy..."not now, I'm too busy" and goes back cutting.
--The next day, he is still busy cutting and the son tries to tell him something and again the reply. "not now, I'm too busy".
--The 3rd day the man that hired the lumberjack comes up and say "what are you doing?". The Lumberjack says, "leave me alone, I'm busy cutting down your trees", to which the man says. "That's not my farm, I live next door!"

We'll see at the end of the season if the Steelers are too busy taking one game at a time to see the big picture, or if they are methodically working on the proper task. Gonna be fun.

revefsreleets
12-12-2008, 11:25 AM
Also, it's important to note that many Steelers fans have ALWAYS known exactly when the Steelers would run the ball. With an exceptional run blocking OL they really made no secret about it. They'd line up in obvious run formations, run the ball, and dare the defense to stop them. Hell watch the last quarter of the Super bowl. We TOTALLY sold out that we were going to do nothing but run, and we did, and did it effectively.

But we don't have the offensive line to do that anymore. And although Parker isn't as mamby-pamby as some would make him out to be, he's never going to be the pounder that Bettis was.

So we need to pass more. We have to give what they take us. Last time I checked, Bruce Arians wasn't drafting our players for us. We are doing what we can with what we have. I personally don't give an eff if we are dead last in every offensive category as long as we keep winning.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-12-2008, 11:26 AM
Agreed, and people especially hate change that's INEFFECTIVE!

Agreed. And some people need to give change a chance. Nobody liked Nick Saban and his 7-6 Alabama team last season. They love the change 1 year later.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-12-2008, 11:31 AM
Also, it's important to note that many Steelers fans have ALWAYS known exactly when the Steelers would run the ball. With an exceptional run blocking OL they really made no secret about it. They'd line up in obvious run formations, run the ball, and dare the defense to stop them. Hell watch the last quarter of the Super bowl. We TOTALLY sold out that we were going to do nothing but run, and we did, and did it effectively.

But we don't have the offensive line to do that anymore. And although Parker isn't as mamby-pamby as some would make him out to be, he's never going to be the pounder that Bettis was.

So we need to pass more. We have to give what they take us. Last time I checked, Bruce Arians wasn't drafting our players for us. We are doing what we can with what we have. I personally don't give an eff if we are dead last in every offensive category as long as we keep winning.

You cant really use the "BA doesnt draft our players" line. You are intelligent enough to know that if the offensive philosophy is to not require a "I" formation and a FB, then that is communicated and the GM doesnt draft of sign one.

Bottom line for me is I like a balanced attack, but think we need to be able to be physical and run the football. Yes, we need better line play, better blocking and as you said, Parker isnt a pounder (so he needs a FB). This aint the Steeler Football of past years and they gotta let it run its course to see if it works or not.

steelreserve
12-12-2008, 11:53 AM
You cant really use the "BA doesnt draft our players" line. You are intelligent enough to know that if the offensive philosophy is to not require a "I" formation and a FB, then that is communicated and the GM doesnt draft of sign one.

Bottom line for me is I like a balanced attack, but think we need to be able to be physical and run the football. Yes, we need better line play, better blocking and as you said, Parker isnt a pounder (so he needs a FB). This aint the Steeler Football of past years and they gotta let it run its course to see if it works or not.

You know, pretty much any RB would benefit from having a halfway decent fullback, whether he's used as a blocker, a decoy, or even takes the occasional carry. Fullbacks are pretty cheap to pick up, too. Even guys like Tom Rathman and Lorenzo Neal get drafted in the third or fourth round. I wonder if the big fat guy from Texas A&M will still be around toward the end of the draft. Couldn't hurt to use a low pick to try out somebody like that.

revefsreleets
12-12-2008, 12:06 PM
You cant really use the "BA doesnt draft our players" line. You are intelligent enough to know that if the offensive philosophy is to not require a "I" formation and a FB, then that is communicated and the GM doesnt draft of sign one.

Bottom line for me is I like a balanced attack, but think we need to be able to be physical and run the football. Yes, we need better line play, better blocking and as you said, Parker isnt a pounder (so he needs a FB). This aint the Steeler Football of past years and they gotta let it run its course to see if it works or not.

We have 2 FB's on our team as far as I can see (although McHugh is listed as a TE on the depth chart), and Arians had nothing to do with the decision to keep Davis, that was Tomlin's call. Intelligence is a nice ad hominem diversion, but that diversion has nothing to do with the actual facts at hand.

We also are utilizing a FB on some running plays, just not every time we run the ball.

Steelers & I
12-12-2008, 12:52 PM
Also, it's important to note that many Steelers fans have ALWAYS known exactly when the Steelers would run the ball. With an exceptional run blocking OL they really made no secret about it. They'd line up in obvious run formations, run the ball, and dare the defense to stop them. Hell watch the last quarter of the Super bowl. We TOTALLY sold out that we were going to do nothing but run, and we did, and did it effectively.

But we don't have the offensive line to do that anymore. And although Parker isn't as mamby-pamby as some would make him out to be, he's never going to be the pounder that Bettis was.

So we need to pass more. We have to give what they take us. Last time I checked, Bruce Arians wasn't drafting our players for us. We are doing what we can with what we have. I personally don't give an eff if we are dead last in every offensive category as long as we keep winning.


Let me know who we can THANK for that decision.

I equate your thinking to that of The University of Michigan. They hire Rich Rodriguez as their head football coach. He has a terrible first season, but hey, it's OK, lets give Rich the opportunity to sign the types of players that are capable of executing his system.

Arians isn't as significant as a head coach so therefore, he won't be afforded the opportunity to obtain the types of players that fit his damn system, if such players even exist??? Arians job is to design plays WITH HIS CURRENT PLAYERS ABILITIES IN MIND! Obviously,:doh:, he has FAILED at this for 2 years running. Obviously,:doh:, he failed as well in Cleveland. When will you wake up and realize that Arians is a FAILURE as an offensive coordinator?

NYC SteelersFan
12-12-2008, 01:00 PM
Arians isn't as significant as a head coach so therefore, he won't be afforded the opportunity to obtain the types of players that fit his damn system, if such players even exist??? Arians job is to design plays WITH HIS CURRENT PLAYERS ABILITIES IN MIND!

I don't know why people fail to understand this key fact.

lilyoder6
12-12-2008, 03:04 PM
we should of gotten cam cameron 4 oc.. :(

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-12-2008, 04:11 PM
We have 2 FB's on our team as far as I can see (although McHugh is listed as a TE on the depth chart), and Arians had nothing to do with the decision to keep Davis, that was Tomlin's call. Intelligence is a nice ad hominem diversion, but that diversion has nothing to do with the actual facts at hand.

We also are utilizing a FB on some running plays, just not every time we run the ball.

Then you are either not as intelligent as I thought or just continue to disregard logic to hold on to your arguement that Arians doesnt have anything to do with the drafting or signing of players.

Basically, Arians takes the promotion to offensive coordinator and runs an offense that he likes to use 3TE's and has little need for a conventional FB. So Dan Kreider is released, Matt Spaeth is drafted in the 3rd and Carey Davis is signed. Who are you saying influenced those decisions.........Kevin Colbert??

If Lebeau retired and Steve Spagnolo was the new D coordinator and wanted to run a 4-3. Do you think that the drafting of some 295lb DT's would be all the decision of Colbert? Please, be serious.

HometownGal
12-12-2008, 04:20 PM
People - can we please disagree without throwing daggers? This damned subject has been beaten to death as it is.

Thanks. :drink:

steelreserve
12-12-2008, 04:49 PM
People - can we please disagree without throwing daggers? This damned subject has been beaten to death as it is.

Thanks. :drink:

Heh, I told you someone needs to make an official sticky "Parker sucks/Parker doesn't suck" thread.

OK, yeah, you're probably right, it's spilled into more threads than it should. I'm all for keeping it in one place, but regardless, I'm betting the same thing continues to come up after every game depending on the various backs' performance, like a QB controversy but with running backs instead. Some people think it's a dead horse, some people think it's an ongoing debate. Can there at least be a good place to discuss it?

stillers4me
12-12-2008, 04:58 PM
Heh, I told you someone needs to make an official sticky "Parker sucks/Parker doesn't suck" thread.

OK, yeah, you're probably right, it's spilled into more threads than it should. I'm all for keeping it in one place, but regardless, I'm betting the same thing continues to come up after every game depending on the various backs' performance, like a QB controversy but with running backs instead. Some people think it's a dead horse, some people think it's an ongoing debate. Can there at least be a good place to discuss it?

Why not combine the "Ben sucks" with the "Willie sucks" threads. Then everybody can suck.

43Hitman
12-12-2008, 05:19 PM
Why not combine the "Ben sucks" with the "Willie sucks" threads. Then everybody can suck.


:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny: Post of the year right here!:rofl::rofl::rofl:

NYC SteelersFan
12-12-2008, 05:20 PM
Why not combine the "Ben sucks" with the "Willie sucks" threads. Then everybody can suck.

What about Arian's sucks? That better get a fair stake also.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-12-2008, 05:45 PM
People - can we please disagree without throwing daggers? This damned subject has been beaten to death as it is.

Thanks. :drink:

I merely stated that I thought revefsreleets was an intelligent individual that would recognize that the position coaches have influence on who is drafted based upon their scheme.

His response was that my comment was diversionary, to which I responded in a either or scenario. I try very hard not to use any derrogatory statements, or "throw daggers" as you have said. I dont drop a lot of F-bombs, call people stupid, or anything like that since I wrongly overreacted a few months ago.

I think parker's statements have merit, I think we should be able to recognize that coordinators do have influence on what kind of personel they need for their systems and I just think we are missing a few pieces to having a more steady offense.

T.Richardson
12-12-2008, 06:25 PM
But what I dont get is why do you guys want them to run the ball more when it isnt effective? Passing has been more effective this year than running the ball.

steel striker
12-12-2008, 06:36 PM
Man what it would been like around here if we lost last week against the cryboys. lol

steelreserve
12-12-2008, 06:40 PM
Man what it would been like around here if we lost last week against the cryboys. lol

Probably like it was after the Maddox games. We wouldn't be happy until Parker was hanged at the 50-yard line during halftime.

Well, that's not quite true. At least Parker gets it right half the time.

RoethlisBURGHer
12-12-2008, 07:20 PM
I will say this: I did question keeping Davis over Kreider, but, as I recall, that was Tomlins call not Arians.

I mean, I GET why Arians is getting blamed: He's the Steelers GWB, and everything on the team is his fault according to many haters, but that doesn't change the fact that Tomlin made that call.

I don't mind an H-back offense, and McHugh is a big guy at 6'5 265 lbs. Aren't we using him now as a blocking back on short yardage?

Kreider was not resigned for two reasons:

1. He was getting old and had injuries last year.

2. The Bruce Arians offense doesn't utilize a traditional blocking fullback.

I think Kreider's contract was up at the end of last season and he was simply unsigned. Signing and not signing a player isn't up to Mike Tomlin, it's up to our GM.

stillers4me
12-12-2008, 08:16 PM
The Bruce Arians offense doesn't utilize a traditional blocking fullback.

And I think that says what everybody has been trying to say in at least a dozen threads and a100 posts. "The Bruce Arians offense" isn't working. He came in and basically said he was going to try and turn us into a finesse passing team instead of a shove the ball down their throats, impose our will running team. He took away our identity. And if it wasn't for our defense, we'd be one floor above the Bengals from the division basement.

Don't get me wrong.......I love watching Ben throw deep and seeing Hines or Tone scoop it up. But we can't do that all the time. Ben doesn't get enough protection and we need the running game to go into the playoffs.

Preacher
12-13-2008, 02:19 AM
Throw it to WHO? and by WHO? Kordell to Thigpen? O'Donnell to Green? I don't what you expected from those teams, no play-calling would have helped those players. And we did pass plenty with those guys, just go look how many interceptions O'Donnell and Kordell have in playoff games. I'll give you a hint, 16 INT's in 11 games.

I won't try to convince you cause it is clear that you believe what you believe and that is fine, but that doesn't change the fact. You're very LARGE MAJORITY had the personell to run a "Balanced" team with a tad edge in passing the ball. Yet somehow the Steelers won with 123 passing yards and 2 INT's on 9 completions out of 21 attempts. If we were balanced in that game then that means we rushed the ball 18 times for about 45 yards and 2 fumbles.

Actually, if you look, we DID have a BALANCE in the 95 SB year run. It is that BALANCE that we need to get back to, and now we ARE going there again. The problem however, is that we have a front line that for the last few years, had an Oline coach that could care less about technique. That is great in run-blocking. BUt when you have to take ON the hit, instead of give the hit, technique is a little more important.

Thus, until we fix Grimms' mistakes on the o line which were coming to a head in 2006 while he was still here, it doesn't help talking about anything else. Because it ALL begins in the trenches.

NYC SteelersFan
12-13-2008, 04:43 AM
Actually, if you look, we DID have a BALANCE in the 95 SB year run. It is that BALANCE that we need to get back to, and now we ARE going there again. The problem however, is that we have a front line that for the last few years, had an Oline coach that could care less about technique. That is great in run-blocking. BUt when you have to take ON the hit, instead of give the hit, technique is a little more important.

Thus, until we fix Grimms' mistakes on the o line which were coming to a head in 2006 while he was still here, it doesn't help talking about anything else. Because it ALL begins in the trenches.

Regardless of how bad the line is, which i know it is, Moore has proven more reliable and efficient over the last 11 games. To me, he has already earned the #1 spot on the depth chart until he proves otherwise, allowing Willie to heal from his "injury" in the meantime. Let's see what Parker does this week. If he gains 80 yards on less than 30 carries, I won't say another word about him for the remained of the regular season.

In games that Moore has gotten 10 carries or more he has carried the ball 107 times for 483 yards, an average of 4.5

Steelers & I
12-13-2008, 08:02 AM
Actually, if you look, we DID have a BALANCE in the 95 SB year run. It is that BALANCE that we need to get back to, and now we ARE going there again. The problem however, is that we have a front line that for the last few years, had an Oline coach that could care less about technique. That is great in run-blocking. BUt when you have to take ON the hit, instead of give the hit, technique is a little more important.

Thus, until we fix Grimms' mistakes on the o line which were coming to a head in 2006 while he was still here, it doesn't help talking about anything else. Because it ALL begins in the trenches.


As many of you always like to point to the Steelers 10-3 record when defending Arians, I'm now going to feed it back to you: How terribly bad can this offensive line be with the Steelers sitting at 10-3?

Cut it however you want to cut it, the Steelers offensive line is AVERAGE! They've played terrible in a game or two but they're OVERALL AVERAGE.

I sometimes wonder if some members have even seen another NFL team play??? Do you ever wonder why the Steelers defense has so many sacks??????

Get yourself the NFL Sunday Ticket package, watch a few other teams play and you'll come to realize that there are worse offensive lines out there. You'll also realize that there are only 4 or 5 really good offensive line units in the entire NFL.

The Steelers offensive line is what it is, with the exception of Starks, these guys aren't going ANYWHERE. They're here to stay so GET USED TO THEM!

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-13-2008, 08:50 AM
The Steelers offensive line is what it is, with the exception of Starks, these guys aren't going ANYWHERE. They're here to stay so GET USED TO THEM!How can you honestly say that?

Starks, Kemo, Smith, Essex all have contracts that end this season. Colon becomes a restricted free agent this offseason. Saying they aren't going anywhere is a pretty big assumption.

GBMelBlount
12-13-2008, 09:03 AM
How can you honestly say that?

Starks, Kemo, Smith, Essex all have contracts that end this season. Colon becomes a restricted free agent this offseason. Saying they aren't going anywhere is a pretty big assumption.

Plus, when you add in the fact that the o-line has been kicking a$$and taking numbers all season......(insert smiley sarcasm).......

Seriously though, I would imagine a lot of them will be staying. They may be mediocre at best, but at least they've played together. Plus, it will take a few years to rebuild through the draft, and upgrading our line through FA ain't gonna be cheap either.....If we go dumpster diving we may end up with these guys anyway.

lilyoder6
12-13-2008, 10:56 AM
i'm thinking that smith will be gone.. and simmons could be gone as well, b/c he DID tear his achilles, and that's a bitch 2 come back from, and w/ him being decently old he may not be able 2 do it..

Steelers & I
12-13-2008, 11:57 AM
How can you honestly say that?

Starks, Kemo, Smith, Essex all have contracts that end this season. Colon becomes a restricted free agent this offseason. Saying they aren't going anywhere is a pretty big assumption.


Honestly?? Heck Jackson, this site would have like 4 or 5 threads if honesty or certainty was required in all posts. I'm just making a calculated guess.

Marvel Smith wasn't even factored in my equation, I should have been more clear and clarified that I was speaking of the "current starting group of offensive linemen". I hope that Smith is free to explore other options. Too injury prone these days for my liking.

Now to the STARTERS, first off, I've already stated that Starks would not be retained so lets scratch him off right now.

Darnell Stapleton, he's signed, he's playing decent, do you envision the Steelers releasing him? I don't. What sense what that make? Even if they keep him for depth, you just won't convince me that he'll be released.

Willie Colon, the Steelers starting RT. Ok, what?? Is he going to be a huge free agent?? Is he going to DEMAND top 10 Tackle money?? I say no and no. He's not going anywhere. That's just my HONEST opinion. Besides, he is a restricted free agent which gives the Steelers a few more options.

Justin Hartwig, he's signed and plays far better than the Mahan project. So yeah, HONESTLY, I don't foresee him being released. WHY would they release him???

Chris Kemoeatu, what do you think?? Will he be highly sought after in free agency?
Is he itching to get out of Pittsburgh? He has some upside, especially in the run game. The Steelers would be foolish to let him just walk away.

I don't know what else to say, I mean you basically quoted me as if I posted something so outrageous. I mean if anyone believes that the Steelers are just going to open the hatches and let all of these linemen explore free agency without even trying to sign them, well, that sounds a bit outrageous to me. I guess we'll see what happens.

In the meantime why don't you give your HONEST thoughts on WHY all or some of these offensive linemen will be released??????

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-13-2008, 01:35 PM
In the meantime why don't you give your HONEST thoughts on WHY all or some of these offensive linemen will be released??????
Steelers & I, please dont take it like a hack...I just think with 4 guys that are UFA and one that is RFA, it is difficult to say that they arent going anywhere.

I agree that Smith is a gonner. I hope they let Starks go, but I have a feeling they will try to re-sign him. Kemo....hasnt been consistently good, so its a coin flip if they try to extend him. Essex might be signed for depth.

Simmons, if he rehabs nice will probably play RG again. Hartwig as you say is staying. Stapleton is a good pass protector, but not a great run blocker and might get a chance to compete at LG next season. I am all for drafting 2 linemen and signing a vet like John St. Clair, Stinchcomb or Columbo and moving Colon to a guard.

Here is what I would like to see next year:

LT- John St. Clair
RG- Justin Hartwig(TC battle with Stapleton)
C- Alex Mack
RG- Willie Colon (TC competition with simmons)
RT- Tony Hills (TC competition with rookie)

Reserves would be Stapleton, Simmons, Essex and a rookie (Phil Loadholt or Alex Boone) with Parquet on the PS.

It involves a core of guys staying (Hartwig, Colon, Stapleton, Simmons, Hills, Essex) but new blood like the possibility of (a 1st rounder like Mack and a 2nd rounder like Boone and a free agent like St. Clair)

NYC SteelersFan
12-13-2008, 02:31 PM
As many of you always like to point to the Steelers 10-3 record when defending Arians, I'm now going to feed it back to you: How terribly bad can this offensive line be with the Steelers sitting at 10-3?

Cut it however you want to cut it, the Steelers offensive line is AVERAGE! They've played terrible in a game or two but they're OVERALL AVERAGE.

I sometimes wonder if some members have even seen another NFL team play??? Do you ever wonder why the Steelers defense has so many sacks??????

Excellent point and arguement.

Honestly?? Heck Jackson, this site would have like 4 or 5 threads if honesty or certainty was required in all posts.

lol..Another excellent point.

Steelers & I
12-13-2008, 03:25 PM
Steelers & I, please dont take it like a hack...I just think with 4 guys that are UFA and one that is RFA, it is difficult to say that they arent going anywhere.

I agree that Smith is a gonner. I hope they let Starks go, but I have a feeling they will try to re-sign him. Kemo....hasnt been consistently good, so its a coin flip if they try to extend him. Essex might be signed for depth.

Simmons, if he rehabs nice will probably play RG again. Hartwig as you say is staying. Stapleton is a good pass protector, but not a great run blocker and might get a chance to compete at LG next season. I am all for drafting 2 linemen and signing a vet like John St. Clair, Stinchcomb or Columbo and moving Colon to a guard.

Here is what I would like to see next year:

LT- John St. Clair
RG- Justin Hartwig(TC battle with Stapleton)
C- Alex Mack
RG- Willie Colon (TC competition with simmons)
RT- Tony Hills (TC competition with rookie)

Reserves would be Stapleton, Simmons, Essex and a rookie (Phil Loadholt or Alex Boone) with Parquet on the PS.

It involves a core of guys staying (Hartwig, Colon, Stapleton, Simmons, Hills, Essex) but new blood like the possibility of (a 1st rounder like Mack and a 2nd rounder like Boone and a free agent like St. Clair)


I'm not being a hack, lol. Sorry if I came off that way. I asked your opinion because I figured that I would get an informative answer, and I did, so thanks for the info.

You're the only member that I've seen in this forum who actually understands and studies the positions of the offense line.

Free agency? I would love to see the Steelers pick up a linemen or two. I'm thinking that no longer paying the salaries of Smith and Starks, if he goes, will free up a considerable amount of cap money. This should enable the Steelers the opportunity to sign a big name-free agent-offensive tackle.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-13-2008, 04:24 PM
I'm not being a hack, lol. Sorry if I came off that way. I asked your opinion because I figured that I would get an informative answer, and I did, so thanks for the info.

You're the only member that I've seen in this forum who actually understands and studies the positions of the offense line.

Free agency? I would love to see the Steelers pick up a linemen or two. I'm thinking that no longer paying the salaries of Smith and Starks, if he goes, will free up a considerable amount of cap money. This should enable the Steelers the opportunity to sign a big name-free agent-offensive tackle.

Sorry, I dont think you are a hack, I actually meant to not take it as a hack against you. Sorry about the bad choice of words and grammar.

I agree that if they let Smith and Starks go (possibly Kemo, Nate Washington and Anthony Smith) that they could afford a big name free agent like Jordan Gross(if he hits the market). But, I also think the Steelers rarely go for the top level FA(Gross, Tauscher, Columbo), but rather the middle of the road guys (St Clair, Stinchcomb, Vernon Carey).

I think the Steelers will use the extra $$ to make a fair market offer to Bryant McFadden, then think of what they can do to extend guys like Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes and James Harrison. They might even dip into the market and have a look at young free agent D lineman like Chris Canty if the Cowgirls dont extend him.

The Duke
12-13-2008, 05:34 PM
I think the Steelers will use the extra $$ to make a fair market offer to Bryant McFadden, then think of what they can do to extend guys like Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes and James Harrison. They might even dip into the market and have a look at young free agent D lineman like Chris Canty if the Cowgirls dont extend him.

Chris Canty could work for the steelers couldn't he. He's not that good as a cowboy ,but I bet some LeBeau coaching could help him

Sorry, off topic. Blame willie :flap:

HometownGal
12-13-2008, 05:51 PM
As many of you always like to point to the Steelers 10-3 record when defending Arians, I'm now going to feed it back to you: How terribly bad can this offensive line be with the Steelers sitting at 10-3?

I am admittedly a strong supporter of Bruce Arians, but I've never given him all of the credit for the Steelers being 10-3 and atop the AFCN. That would be grossly unfair, imho. However, I didn't fling all of the shit at him after any of the 3 Steelers losses this season, as I believe that is grossly unfair, as well. I am intelligent and perceptive enough to realize that Bruce Arians is the Steelers OC for a reason and I'm simply a fan on the outside looking in. Taste good? :yummy:

Ben and Lefty have been already sacked 41 times this season combined. While I do realize that at times Ben holds onto the ball too long in order to try to make a play, I also realize that our OL gives him very little time to drop back and make the play. Ben isn't stupid, but he also isn't unprofessional enough to point his finger at his line publicly. Most of this season, the Steelers D has come through for us and has either put the O in a good position to win games or has won games in their own right with their outstanding play.

Cut it however you want to cut it, the Steelers offensive line is AVERAGE! They've played terrible in a game or two but they're OVERALL AVERAGE.

I sometimes wonder if some members have even seen another NFL team play??? Do you ever wonder why the Steelers defense has so many sacks??????



I am going to cut it as I see it and imho - the Steelers OL overall ranks among the worst in the league. In 40+ years of being not only a Steelers fan but a fan of the game itself, I can't remember seeing such an inconsistent and porous OL representing the Steelers. This group should be in the Guiness book of records for being the largest turnstile ever made.

While I do realize and appreciate that every fan views the game in different lights, I sometimes wonder if some members watch the same Steelers games that I do. :doh:

Why does the Steelers D have so many sacks you ask? Very simple. Because they are THAT good. Ranked #1 in almost every defensive category. Enough said.

Get yourself the NFL Sunday Ticket package, watch a few other teams play and you'll come to realize that there are worse offensive lines out there. You'll also realize that there are only 4 or 5 really good offensive line units in the entire NFL.

The Steelers offensive line is what it is, with the exception of Starks, these guys aren't going ANYWHERE. They're here to stay so GET USED TO THEM!

[/QUOTE]

Sure there is a worse OL or two out there - we somewhat agree there. :drink: Personally, though - I don't give a rat's patoot about the other teams. I am a fan of the Pittsburgh Steelers and with the exception of Kemo (who I feel is a diamond in the rough) , Marvel Smith and at times - Max Starks (who is as inconsistent as the day is long) - our OL reeks.

Get yourself the NFL Sunday Ticket package, watch a few other teams play and you'll come to realize that there are worse offensive lines out there. You'll also realize that there are only 4 or 5 really good offensive line units in the entire NFL.

The Steelers offensive line is what it is, with the exception of Starks, these guys aren't going ANYWHERE. They're here to stay so GET USED TO THEM!

[/QUOTE]

Sadly, you may be right. When Jeff Hartings retired, there was a huge gaping hole at the C position that imho has never come close to being filled by either Mahan or Hartwig, and since that time, the line's play, coupled with the loss of Faneca, has gone downhill faster than you can say "the Bungles suck".

I'm not going to get used to them because I feel the Steelers can (and hopefully will) do better via the '09 draft and/or FA. It's a miracle Ben hasn't been seriously injured or killed behind that line and if the Steelers truly value their $100 million QB, they'll act sooner rather than later in getting an AVERAGE or above AVERAGE line to protect him.

43Hitman
12-13-2008, 06:04 PM
My thoughts on all the bickering we Steelers fans have been having lately.

There are those who can't get a long. Fundamental differences and 'failures', call it whatever you like but humanity just isn't in on that playbook. This is why I often say "bleeding hearts leave bloody trails". The modern crusaders in our world (and don't think this doesn't mean ALL social activists not just religious types) preaching their social beliefs, trying to force them on others, ignorant of the differences between them and others. Some people can't be reasoned with, it is just how they are and there will not be 'peace' so long as they are there.

For the record I want to say this isn't directed to anyone in particular, but everyone in general. Including myself.

Jaquila
12-13-2008, 06:26 PM
I cant really decide wether or not I want Arians to stay, but I do agree with Parker on this one, we need to get our running game back!
However I dont think we can with this O-line and without a real FB, the O-line sux, plain and simple but we cant get a new one right now people!
we can only hope that they can catch up some of the slack so we atleast can take advantage of the good field positions our D gives us.
That is all im asking for right now! an offense that can score when they get good field position!

NYC SteelersFan
12-13-2008, 08:10 PM
There are no meaty stats for o-lines like there are for other positions. The only stat that people hold specific to them is sacks, which is pretty inaccurate and unfair cause the stat does not show how long or in what manner the QB was sacked. It's a "team" stat not an "o-line" stat to begin with and rightfully so. The team has given up 41 sacks, 4 teams are worse than us and 8 teams are within 10 sacks of our 41. Some perceive the o-line as being the worst ever. I personally have perceived Roethlisberger as being personally responsible for at least 10 sacks this year of the 41 the team has given up. 31 sacks ranks this team at 14th, which makes this o-line average as others have pointed out, the o-line is not that bad.

You know what would be a great stat? Blitz's attempted. That way we could see how many times this o-line has been blitzed to have given up 41 sacks. I bet other than Detroit and Cincinnati (both of which have worse rushing offense's than we do), we have been blitzed more than any other team in the league because every single defense is now fully aware that we AREN'T rushing the football and we CAN'T rush the football.

22nd in the league in total rushing offense
29th in the league in average yards per carry
24th in the league in rushing yards
23rd in the league in rushing yards per game
22nd in the league in rushing first downs
26th in the league in rushing first down%
28th in the league in rush's over 20 yards
27th in the league in rush's over 40 yards
14th in the league in rushing TD's

All that is not the result of a bad o-line, it might be PARTLY because of the o-line, but no way is it all because of or even 50% because of. I actually feel bad for o-lines. They're never given credit when the team is good and they're the first to be thrown under the bus by loyal fans when things are at it's worst because the truth is most fans can't pick the faces of their o-line out of a lineup. They are the faceless villains while glamerous postions like QB, RB and WR are given all the exposure and credit when a team shows greatness. Even coaches who's faces are visible and sometimes prominent take less crap for a teams mistakes.

People have posters of their teams QB, RB or WR, no one has a poster of an offensive linemen. It's always the STAR quarterback or STAR running back or STAR wide receiver. It's never STAR offensive linemen. But it's usually always the FAULT of the o-line, those dumb, fat worthless bastards. scrap'em all I say. Just make defenders count to 5 Mississippi before they can cross the line of scrimmage like when we were kids that way when QB's, RB's and WR's play like $hit, they'll be no one left to blame except for the head coach and offensive coordinator.

Good luck gainst the Ravens Parker, you'll need it.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-13-2008, 09:10 PM
All that is not the result of a bad o-line, it might be PARTLY because of the o-line, but no way is it all because of or even 50% because of. I actually feel bad for o-lines. They're never given credit when the team is good and they're the first to be thrown under the bus by loyal fans when things are at it's worst because the truth is most fans can't pick the faces of their o-line out of a lineup. .

You hit the nail right on the head!!!!

The first strike against the O line was the injuries, the 2nd was the 2 and now 3 new starters on the team, the 3rd is that every D-coordinator smelled the blood in the water and sent the house against guys that were backups and hadnt played together long........and the fans point to the only stat they can. SACKS.

Colon held Greg Ellis to 1 tackle and no sacks. Max Starks did well against Ware, but he got some coverage sacks. Neither of them got any credit, in fact many thing they suck and Stapleton and Kemo are the strength of the line, but if you break down the tape.....they were hugely inconsistent. Hartwig is actually the most consistent guy on the line that gets movement in the run game and pass protects well. Kemo should be a beast in the run game, but isnt always and he often gets flat footed in pass protection. Stapleton moves his feet well in pass protection, but doesnt run block well.

Bottom line is we have very few complete players on the O line and we arent coaching them to be better technically(at least their techique and desire is lazy). They pass protected well in the Cowboys game(nobody cares to give any credit), but didnt run block well except in the first quarter. Need some young talent as a base, but for this season they need to work to their strengths and be coached up. Run behing Starks, Kemo, Hartwig. Also use Colon and Miller to block down, but utilize Stapletons mobility to pull around the right side for some plays or seal LB's.

Steelers & I
12-14-2008, 09:46 AM
I am admittedly a strong supporter of Bruce Arians, but I've never given him all of the credit for the Steelers being 10-3 and atop the AFCN. That would be grossly unfair, imho. However, I didn't fling all of the shit at him after any of the 3 Steelers losses this season, as I believe that is grossly unfair, as well. I am intelligent and perceptive enough to realize that Bruce Arians is the Steelers OC for a reason and I'm simply a fan on the outside looking in. Taste good? :yummy:

Ben and Lefty have been already sacked 41 times this season combined. While I do realize that at times Ben holds onto the ball too long in order to try to make a play, I also realize that our OL gives him very little time to drop back and make the play. Ben isn't stupid, but he also isn't unprofessional enough to point his finger at his line publicly. Most of this season, the Steelers D has come through for us and has either put the O in a good position to win games or has won games in their own right with their outstanding play.



I am going to cut it as I see it and imho - the Steelers OL overall ranks among the worst in the league. In 40+ years of being not only a Steelers fan but a fan of the game itself, I can't remember seeing such an inconsistent and porous OL representing the Steelers. This group should be in the Guiness book of records for being the largest turnstile ever made.

While I do realize and appreciate that every fan views the game in different lights, I sometimes wonder if some members watch the same Steelers games that I do. :doh:
Why does the Steelers D have so many sacks you ask? Very simple. Because they are THAT good. Ranked #1 in almost every defensive category. Enough said.





Sure there is a worse OL or two out there - we somewhat agree there. :drink: Personally, though - I don't give a rat's patoot about the other teams. I am a fan of the Pittsburgh Steelers and with the exception of Kemo (who I feel is a diamond in the rough) , Marvel Smith and at times - Max Starks (who is as inconsistent as the day is long) - our OL reeks.



[/QUOTE]

Sadly, you may be right. When Jeff Hartings retired, there was a huge gaping hole at the C position that imho has never come close to being filled by either Mahan or Hartwig, and since that time, the line's play, coupled with the loss of Faneca, has gone downhill faster than you can say "the Bungles suck".

I'm not going to get used to them because I feel the Steelers can (and hopefully will) do better via the '09 draft and/or FA. It's a miracle Ben hasn't been seriously injured or killed behind that line and if the Steelers truly value their $100 million QB, they'll act sooner rather than later in getting an AVERAGE or above AVERAGE line to protect him.[/QUOTE]









Be careful now Hometown, no need to doink yourself in the head. I sometimes miss a few seconds of a game when I don't get back from the restroom quick enough. Don't beat yourself up over it, just pay closer attention during the next game.
Lol, sorry, I had to get that in there.

Here's my take, I read your post and I'll admit that, ON OCCASION, I agree with your assessment of the offensive line. I've seen them play exactly as you've described BUT, the difference in our opinions is that I've only seen them play that bad in 2 or 3 games this season. My impression after reading your post is that you believe that the O-Line has played terrible all season, I mean you've basically called them the worst of all time and I strongly disagree with that.

I estimate that his line has performed "decently" for 2/3 of the season. I'll never go on record and say that they're good, but I truly believe that they're average. They have their typical 3, 4, or 5 meltdowns a game but really, what O-Line doesn't?

The two consistents that I've seen in watching the Steelers offense is terrible play design and TERRIBLE PLAY CALLING! I guess that the latter ticks me off more than anything because I know that this offense can be productive.. We've seen this offense move the ball from the 20 to the 20 with no problems when Roethlisberber is exeuting the no huddle offense. I mean the plays are there, this offense produces when Arians isn't calling the plays.

How many times have we seen the Steelers go no huddle, they drive the ball inside the red zone with no problems. Once in the red zone they slow things down and Arians starts calling the plays again. This has happened often and the end result is typically the Steelers walking away with a "stinking field goal". I just know that kicking field goals as opposed to putting red zone touchdowns on the board will eventually be the doom of the Pittsburgh Steelers.:banging::banging:

I could go on but heck, this is all :blah::blah::blah: As much as I hate Bruce Arians, I root like crazy for him to come up with a successful game plan EVERY GAMEDAY!

In closing I'll say this to myself and all of the Arians haters, get your A$$ on the bus depicted below. Push it, pull it, tow it, will it on, and do whatever it takes to get this jalopy to Tampa Bay Florida because if it doesn't get there, NONE OF US WILL GET THERE!


http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l13/bkakers/ariansbus.jpg

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-14-2008, 10:35 AM
Here's my take, I read your post and I'll admit that, ON OCCASION, I agree with your assessment of the offensive line. I've seen them play exactly as you've described BUT, the difference in our opinions is that I've only seen them play that bad in 2 or 3 games this season. My impression after reading your post is that you believe that the O-Line has played terrible all season, I mean you've basically called them the worst of all time and I strongly disagree with that.



[

I agree with you on this point. I now believe that there are mental mistakes and what somethimes looks like a lack of effort that makes me question their position coach(Zeirline).

Good to know that I am not the only one that wonders if some people are watching the same game as I am. :doh: But it looks like you are, S&I.

Preacher
12-14-2008, 10:41 AM
I estimate that his line has performed "decently" for 2/3 of the season. I'll never go on record and say that they're good, but I truly believe that they're average. They have their typical 3, 4, or 5 meltdowns a game but really, what O-Line doesn't?

The two consistents that I've seen in watching the Steelers offense is terrible play design and TERRIBLE PLAY CALLING! I guess that the latter ticks me off more than anything because I know that this offense can be productive.. We've seen this offense move the ball from the 20 to the 20 with no problems when Roethlisberber is exeuting the no huddle offense. I mean the plays are there, this offense produces when Arians isn't calling the plays.

How many times have we seen the Steelers go no huddle, they drive the ball inside the red zone with no problems. Once in the red zone they slow things down and Arians starts calling the plays again. This has happened often and the end result is typically the Steelers walking away with a "stinking field goal". I just know that kicking field goals as opposed to putting red zone touchdowns on the board will eventually be the doom of the Pittsburgh Steelers.:banging::banging:

I could go on but heck, this is all :blah::blah::blah: As much as I hate Bruce Arians, I root like crazy for him to come up with a successful game plan EVERY GAMEDAY!

In closing I'll say this to myself and all of the Arians haters, get your A$$ on the bus depicted below. Push it, pull it, tow it, will it on, and do whatever it takes to get this jalopy to Tampa Bay Florida because if it doesn't get there, NONE OF US WILL GET THERE!




There are a number of assumptions in this post that are nothing but wild speculation.

1. Ben has a speaker in his helmet. When the last play is over, Arians has the ability to call in plays, whether it is no-huddle or not. You have no idea when Ben is calling plays, and when Arians is calling plays.

2. Our O line has NOT played decently for 2/3rds of the season. They were HORRIBLE starting the 2nd game in, and have been that way up till the Redskins game. Then, they started playing ok against the pass rush and STILL horrible for our running game. An o line that can only play 50% of the game at an OK level and the other 50% at a bad level is a horrible o line.

3. To your previous post. . . Um, I live on the west coast, grew up our there. I have probably watched more non-Steelers games than you ever will by virtue that I had to spend my first 30 years only seeing the Steelers in highlights, MNF, and the odd national game. To the point you were making about this issue, if you were truly watching other teams, you would see a line much stronger in the run and pass on other teams. YOu wouldn't be arguing that the line is average. You would be agreeing with HTG that they are horrible. Now, I admit that over the last couple games they have improved. That Dallas game could have been a disaster. However, it is time to let some linemen walk.


Now... what does that all amount too? It amounts to the fact that, as I have said before and NO ONE seems to challene here. . . That our O Line was left a complete disaster by the PREVIOUS coaching staff. We are now paying for thier mistakes and oversight. Blaming Arians/ or Z for the o line now is tantamount to blaming a president in his first or second year in office for the economy, when it was decisions made YEARS ago tha tis driving the problems.

PolamaluPower
12-14-2008, 10:51 AM
I have to agree with Willie. Running the ball makes sense and when you can't, you're now one dimensional.

T.Richardson
12-14-2008, 11:26 AM
I have to agree with Willie. Running the ball makes sense and when you can't, you're now one dimensional.

Run the ball on a 2 yard per carry average? Pass first to open the running game is a better gameplan.

Preacher
12-14-2008, 11:30 AM
Run the ball on a 2 yard per carry average? Pass first to open the running game is a better gameplan.

Absolutely not.. you must have a power back, right?

Dallas did in the 90's. . . Bronco's did for their SB runs, so did the Patriots! How dare we forget that power run game for the Rams?

None of those backs were set up by the pass, now were they? It was just line up and smash it down your throat! :chuckle:

T.Richardson
12-14-2008, 11:35 AM
Absolutely not.. you must have a power back, right?

Dallas did in the 90's. . . Bronco's did for their SB runs, so did the Patriots! How dare we forget that power run game for the Rams?

None of those backs were set up by the pass, now were they? It was just line up and smash it down your throat! :chuckle:

The Pats, and Rams barely ever run the ball...

Steelers & I
12-14-2008, 11:44 AM
There are a number of assumptions in this post that are nothing but wild speculation.

1. Ben has a speaker in his helmet. When the last play is over, Arians has the ability to call in plays, whether it is no-huddle or not. You have no idea when Ben is calling plays, and when Arians is calling plays.

2. Our O line has NOT played decently for 2/3rds of the season. They were HORRIBLE starting the 2nd game in, and have been that way up till the Redskins game. Then, they started playing ok against the pass rush and STILL horrible for our running game. An o line that can only play 50% of the game at an OK level and the other 50% at a bad level is a horrible o line.

3. To your previous post. . . Um, I live on the west coast, grew up our there. I have probably watched more non-Steelers games than you ever will by virtue that I had to spend my first 30 years only seeing the Steelers in highlights, MNF, and the odd national game. To the point you were making about this issue, if you were truly watching other teams, you would see a line much stronger in the run and pass on other teams. YOu wouldn't be arguing that the line is average. You would be agreeing with HTG that they are horrible. Now, I admit that over the last couple games they have improved. That Dallas game could have been a disaster. However, it is time to let some linemen walk.


Now... what does that all amount too? It amounts to the fact that, as I have said before and NO ONE seems to challene here. . . That our O Line was left a complete disaster by the PREVIOUS coaching staff. We are now paying for thier mistakes and oversight. Blaming Arians/ or Z for the o line now is tantamount to blaming a president in his first or second year in office for the economy, when it was decisions made YEARS ago tha tis driving the problems.

Wild speculation??? I would suggest that you go back and read the archives. There have been NUMEROUS news articles posted in this very forum that CLEARLY INDICATE that Roethlisberger calls 75% of the no huddle plays.

I watched the Steelers play a game 2 weeks ago and one of the announcers stated
"Roethlisberger said that he often calls as many as 4 plays in succession without hearing A PEEP from Arians.

So don't insinuate that I have no idea pal. My statements in regards to who's calling the plays come from media sources.

Your assessment of the offensive line is just that, "your assessment", wild speculation on your part, no facts to support your belief.

cubanstogie
12-14-2008, 11:58 AM
Run the ball on a 2 yard per carry average? Pass first to open the running game is a better gameplan.

I agree, the only way we are going to score against Ravens is to open it up and run in second half. We need to play like the first game last year when we scored 38 or something like that. With our D we need to take a chance and throw, throw, throw.