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ts888
12-11-2008, 06:08 PM
going forward who exactly is the 2nd starter and who is the nickel, and dime? or will it depend on game situation or does it even matter?

Ike obviously in there, McFadden was the guy for a bit but coming back from injury, DeShea was the # 2 before McFadden overtook him. Then there is Gay who went from dime to # 2 and has played pretty well.

regardless.....it's a nice problem to have with all them healthy at once when we need it most.

tyler289
12-11-2008, 06:40 PM
McFadden didn't seem to miss a step in his return last Sunday.

Gay has been looking good, which means that if McFadden demands a lot of money, we have a replacement.

Fire Haley
12-11-2008, 06:46 PM
It's still aways to go yet, Gay is looking good but I'd like to see McFadden at 100%.

Mac and Farrior should be the big targets in FA. We need them both.

ljk2442
12-11-2008, 07:23 PM
I believe Farrior was resigned.... prior to the season??????

And I believe that the corners are looking very very elite because of a solid pass rush.... but I can't take anything away from them

I really believe that Mike Tomlin, if he has a trademark in Pittsburgh, its the revival of our secondary!!!!!

Please re-sign McFadden!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fire Haley
12-11-2008, 07:43 PM
I believe Farrior was resigned.... prior to the season!

whoops! You're right, I totally forgot.

5-year, $18.25 million signed in August

Fire Haley
12-11-2008, 08:03 PM
As long as we draft

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DL

I'll be happy for years and years.

lilyoder6
12-11-2008, 08:06 PM
i think the even if we do re-sign b-mac or not, we might want 2 draft a cb...

jjpro11
12-12-2008, 12:36 AM
i havent really thought about the offseason yet.. marvel smith looks as good as gone, unless we sign him for one year cheap to prove himself again. harrison is a FA after next season. i know he is over 30, but so was porter.. harrison doesnt have an injury history like porter did either. so who knows.

Madhunter
12-12-2008, 12:57 AM
I agree with Killer, we need all OL for the first four rounds at least as ridiculous as that sounds. The best available player is good sometimes but they need to focus on that position more than anything or they will never get their $101 million out of Big Ben

tony hipchest
12-12-2008, 01:48 AM
whoops! You're right, I totally forgot.

5-year, $18.25 million signed in August
D$i$r$t$ C$h$e$a$p

during the cowher era, theres no way a 2nd year cb drafted in the lower rounds wouldve ever sniffed a start with a healthy deshea and the #2 cb (mcfadden even at 80%) returning from injury.

gay has made 4 starts and nobody knows any better (or worse, which is a testament to him and his coaches). next year is his final season under contract.

hank poteat has still got a job in the nfl. w. gay can atleast look forward to as much as that (probably more).

all i can say is neither mcfadden or gay are a *cough cough* ricardo couclough.

both need to be kept. townsend took a hometown discount once, lets hope him and best friend hines consider doing it again. :drink:

Steelman16
12-12-2008, 01:51 AM
all i can say is neither mcfadden or gay are a *cough cough* ricardo couclough.


Yep, CokeClown was in a class of his own. :chuckle:

SunshineMan21
12-12-2008, 01:54 AM
I like the idea of keeping Deshea . . . he is a team-oriented guy who has taken less money for years.

We could use another shutdown-type corner in the draft, but as a priority it's a distant third behind the monumental OL needs and the need for youth on the DL.

tony hipchest
12-12-2008, 02:14 AM
I like the idea of keeping Deshea . . . he is a team-oriented guy who has taken less money for years.

We could use another shutdown-type corner in the draft, but as a priority it's a distant third behind the monumental OL needs and the need for youth on the DL.

"another shutdown-type corner"?

people have been calling for a replacement for ike until this year (and they still bitch that he cant catch even though he can run and tackle with the best of them).

shouldnt mcfadden and gay be given the same amount of rope ike was, to develop and learn dick lebeau's revolutionary and complicated system?

Crushzilla
12-12-2008, 02:16 AM
As far as the draft goes, it would be VERY difficult to justify drafting any position other than OL/DL in the early rounds...

Where else do we need immediate help and/or critically aged?

Crushzilla
12-12-2008, 02:18 AM
"another shutdown-type corner"?

people have been calling for a replacement for ike until this year (and they still bitch that he cant catch even though he can run and tackle with the best of them).

shouldnt mcfadden and gay be given the same amount of rope ike was, to develop and learn dick lebeau's revolutionary and complicated system?

Also, both have shown a lot of promise.

Before his injury, I was giddy as a school-girl and happy as a clam with McFadden.

If only he didn't have a horse's ass as an agent.

McFadden will command top dollar...

EDIT: Well not top... but more than the Steelers will want to give.

tony hipchest
12-12-2008, 02:23 AM
Also, both have shown a lot of promise.

Before his injury, I was giddy as a school-girl and happy as a clam with McFadden.

If only he didn't have a horse's ass as an agent.

McFadden will command top dollar...

EDIT: Well not top... but more than the Steelers will want to give.

no he wont. lawrence timmons didnt.

drew is a shrewd businessman and he knows when and where to pick his fights. with the rooneys arent when or where.

mcfadden really likes being a steeler and if he tells HIS employee to make it happen, it will happen.

Crushzilla
12-12-2008, 02:49 AM
no he wont. lawrence timmons didnt.

drew is a shrewd businessman and he knows when and where to pick his fights. with the rooneys arent when or where.

mcfadden really likes being a steeler and if he tells HIS employee to make it happen, it will happen.

Aye.

Hope you're right. :drink:

paw-n-maul-u
12-12-2008, 04:17 AM
Vonte Davis would look like a demon in a steelers uni.

Galax Steeler
12-12-2008, 04:43 AM
Yep, CokeClown was in a class of his own. :chuckle:

I can't beleive you would bring him up.:toofunny:

Fire Haley
12-12-2008, 05:49 AM
I agree with Killer, we need all OL for the first four rounds at least as ridiculous as that sounds.

When I said OL OL OL DL - I meant just that.
Get 4 starters, be bold and move up.

Package all those other picks and move up and get the best we can.
We never do anything but cut our late rd draft picks anyway, why sign them just to cut them, we never hear their names again. Just one time, do it for me.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-12-2008, 10:42 AM
When I said OL OL OL DL - I meant just that.
Get 4 starters, be bold and move up.

Package all those other picks and move up and get the best we can.
We never do anything but cut our late rd draft picks anyway, why sign them just to cut them, we never hear their names again. Just one time, do it for me.

You are seriously advocating starting 4 rookie O linemen next season???? To borrow a line from either Duke or Hipcrest...."boy am I glad we already have a GM"

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-12-2008, 10:52 AM
no he wont. lawrence timmons didnt.

drew is a shrewd businessman and he knows when and where to pick his fights. with the rooneys arent when or where.

mcfadden really likes being a steeler and if he tells HIS employee to make it happen, it will happen.

Timmons was a rookie and basically he gets paid a bit more than the guy drafted after him and less than the guy drafted just before him. Rosenhaus has little to do with that negotiation.

A promising guy going for his 2nd contract like McFadden can command a decent dollar figure and I hope we can sign him to something reasonable. Because then we dont have to draft a CB. Can keep the same D backfield as this year. Really like how Gay has played, but I dont think he has the speed to stay with WR's deep. Kind of a cover 2 CB.

Fire Haley
12-12-2008, 11:13 AM
You are seriously advocating starting 4 rookie O linemen next season???? "

You want Simmons back? Oh yeah - he's our savior.

Absolutely - we will lose Marvel, Starks, Colon is easily replaceable and maybe Hartwig too.

Where you gonna fill them holes from, FA? Yeah right - like we'll pay for that.

It's all about 'The Draft'.

We got 4 outta 5 new starters on our line right now from last year, why should next year be any different - they can't do much worse.

Look around the league - rookie O-linemen start all the time, and excel.

Get crackin' and get us whole new line, I say. I'm tired of watching Ben get plastered on every pass play.

SteelMember
12-12-2008, 11:38 AM
McFadden to start vs. Ravens

Cornerback Bryant McFadden, who returned but did not start against Dallas after missing six games with a broken arm, will replace William Gay in the starting lineup against the Baltimore Ravens. Gay started the past four games and played very well, allowing the Steelers to maintain their ranking as the No. 1 pass defense in then league.

"He was playing great football before he was injured," Tomlin said. "We acknowledged he was missing some time, but he played at a high level for us, which is what we expected. So we're moving on, and he's back in the lineup."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08347/934666-66.stm

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-12-2008, 12:48 PM
Look around the league - rookie O-linemen start all the time, and excel.

Get crackin' and get us whole new line, I say. I'm tired of watching Ben get plastered on every pass play.

Yes, rookie O linemen that were drafted high in the first round can normally have a shot to start on a bad team and learn. Jake Long, Brandon Albert, Ryan Clady, Jeff Otah, Sam Baker were all starting and I would say Long, Clady, Otah and Baker were doing well. Chris Willams and Gosder Cherilus have been terrible, Duane Brown, Brandon Albert have been inconsistent at best.

Try and get 4 linemen in the first 3 rounds and start them day 1. Then you will see Ben get plastered even worse.

Usually three percent of the opening day starters are rookies. This year 24 rookies, or three percent, will likely be starting this weekend.

It's no secret that the Falcons, Chiefs and Dolphins are young teams. Consequently all three teams have three rookies in their starting lineup. Each team plans on plugging in a rookie at left tackle, which presents lots of challenges.

There's no problem when quality teams like the Dallas Cowboys, Green Bay Packers, Jacksonville Jaguars, New York Giants, and Pittsburgh Steelers don't have any rookies starting because it is difficult to break into the lineup of a good team. http://www.nfl.com/kickoff/story?id=09000d5d80a6c9d2&template=with-video&confirm=true

If you pay the dollar, you can holler......but I prefer to suggest something that actually might work like an O line next season of:

John St. Clair (or other vet OT), Kemo, Hartwig, Colon, Tony Hills. With backups like Simmons, Stapleton, Essex and a couple rookies like either 2 of (Alex Mack, Luis Vasquez, Phil Loadholt or Alex Boone)

Fire Haley
12-12-2008, 01:27 PM
YesTry and get 4 linemen in the first 3 rounds and start them day 1. Then you will see Ben get plastered even worse.

So in other words what we have is good enough for you?

How inspirational.

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I stand by my picks. Who starts will be up to the coach.

43Hitman
12-12-2008, 01:35 PM
More than likely the Steelers will be picking in the bottom half of the first round and choose the BPA.

Fire Haley
12-12-2008, 01:59 PM
More than likely the Steelers will be picking in the bottom half of the first round and choose the BPA.

That's only if we stand pat with conventional thinking - package picks - move up in the top 3 rds and take...

OL
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DL

Screw the rest of the 4 rds - quality over quantity. We just cut em anyway.

The Duke
12-12-2008, 03:01 PM
:rolleyes:

Once again, I am glad we have a GM

Sharkissle29
12-12-2008, 03:14 PM
Having Tomlin be a cornerback guy, you'd think he would say something to the front office to get mcfadden re-signed....im sure he sees the HUGE upside

steelreserve
12-12-2008, 03:43 PM
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DL

I stand by my picks. Who starts will be up to the coach.

No offense, but there's no way we'll do that. We'd be stupid not to pick one OL on the first day, but ONE is probably all we're gonna pick. We'd better get a good defensive lineman this year.

Everyone's also going to be shocked when we take another linebacker in the first or second round, because guess what? Barring a miracle, Harrison's gone after next year; he's priced himself way out of our ability to re-sign him with the cap room we have.

There's really no need to "replace" Smith, since he's basically been missing for two years anyway. Guys of Colon's ability are a dime a dozen, and who knows what'll happen with Simmons or Starks.

My best guess is Hartwig will stay at center, Kemo at LG, and RG could be either Stapleton or Simmons. Tackles are pretty up in the air -- I bet we bring back either Starks or Colon but not both, leaving our options for the other spot as Hills (does anyone know whether he actually turned out to be any good?), Essex, a rookie or a FA. If it's Hills or a FA, I bet we spend our draft pick on guard or center.

Regardless, at least three, probably four positions at OL are likely to stay the same; they'll just have to get better.

lilyoder6
12-12-2008, 03:46 PM
i thought that harrison signed a 4 yr extension in 06... so he should have 2 yrs left... hopefully davis can become a good olb 4 us... like the woodly exp did..

we also have 2 start looking at getting some d-line to start grooming

steelreserve
12-12-2008, 04:18 PM
i thought that harrison signed a 4 yr extension in 06... so he should have 2 yrs left... hopefully davis can become a good olb 4 us... like the woodly exp did..

we also have 2 start looking at getting some d-line to start grooming

06, 07, 08, 09 ... that's your four years right there. I'm pretty sure this year and next year is it for him, and he'd be stupid not to take his one shot at a big payday at age 31 or 32 or whatever he'll be. That would be nice if Davis could step up and be a starter, even if he's not an All-Pro or anything. Don't know if he's at the same talent level as Woodley, though -- he was an absolute STEAL in the second round.

But yeah ... in two years, I'm more worried about the D-line than anything else. The guys we have will all be in their 50s and 60s by then, and it seems like lately, the only D-linemen available on the free agent market have been stopgap guys who are old, mediocre, injured or some combination of the three.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-12-2008, 05:02 PM
So in other words what we have is good enough for you?

How inspirational.

. I just suggested an offensive line with 3 positional changes and none of them would be inexperienced rookies, except the 2 draft picks in reserve. That is not "what we have". I have posted before that I wanted our 3rd and 4th round picks this season to be Anthony Collins and Carl Nicks.....that would have given us some linemen with NFL experience for next season, but we really didnt plan that well for the future this draft.

BTW, I wasnt trying to inspire anybody, but rather try and politely point out that many rookies don't start on good teams. 3% per draft start on opening day. Please name me a case where some genius GM or coach has before decided to start 4 rookie O linemen in the NFL to protect his $100million QB?

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-12-2008, 05:03 PM
:rolleyes:

Once again, I am glad we have a GM :applaudit:

Fire Haley
12-12-2008, 06:36 PM
No offense, but there's no way we'll do that. We'd be stupid not to pick one OL on the first day.


Once again, you are looking at the ground and not seeing the meaning of what I say....

I say we draft

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...within the first 3 rds.

We take ...

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on Day 1 - moving up as we go in the 1st two rds...



and...

DL

...as our Day 2 pick, we move up there too



We end up cutting 80% of players drafted later anyway - sex that crapshoot up!

steelreserve
12-12-2008, 07:21 PM
Once again, you are looking at the ground and not seeing the meaning of what I say....

I say we draft

OL
OL
OL
DL

...within the first 3 rds.

We take ...

OL
OL
OL

on Day 1 - moving up as we go in the 1st two rds...



and...

DL

...as our Day 2 pick, we move up there too



We end up cutting 80% of players drafted later anyway - sex that crapshoot up!

I know what you meant, I just don't think we will (or should) draft three O-linemen that early, or possibly at all. I don't say that because the need isn't obvious -- it is, and this is one of the rare years when I wouldn't mind if we took a lineman in the first round. I say it because it's really unlikely we'd let more than one rookie have significant playing time, so we're guaranteed to get nothing out of two first-day picks for a while.

If we're counting on the draft to replenish our line, better to draft one quality OL this year and sign a free agent if we need a stopgap guy, then draft another quality guy next year. And we can always take a chance on someone with our longshot picks in rounds 4-7, like we did with Hills.

Realistically, I bet we do something like this:

Round 1: OL or DL
Round 2: LB
Round 3: OL or DL (whichever wasn't picked in Rd 1)
Round 4: use to trade up in earlier rounds
Round 5: FB
Round 6-7 who really cares?
Free agency: Bring in decent OT or DE, whichever we didn't draft at No. 1

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-12-2008, 10:01 PM
I dont know if they go LB at all. They essentially used 3 picks on LB in the past 2 years.

With having 4 picks in the first 3 rounds, I can honestly see them spending 2 of them on O-line, 1 on D-line and another on a DB or WR/KR.

If they arent able to sign McFadden, then maybe a CB gets picked higher.

steelreserve
12-13-2008, 01:29 AM
I dont know if they go LB at all. They essentially used 3 picks on LB in the past 2 years.

With having 4 picks in the first 3 rounds, I can honestly see them spending 2 of them on O-line, 1 on D-line and another on a DB or WR/KR.

If they arent able to sign McFadden, then maybe a CB gets picked higher.

Yeah, I guess a lot of it depends on who they can re-sign and whether the #3-4 picks from last year turn into at least serviceable players. If they decide Hills is worth a shot at OT, maybe they only take one OL, or if Davis gets a shot, then maybe they skip LB entirely. Who knows, maybe they also find a free agent lineman and suddenly we don't need to worry so much about the OL.

Before Gay came along, I would've definitely looked at DB as a little worrisome, but if we can just keep the guys we've got, I think we'll be all right for a couple years. I 'd be surprised if we take a WR unless someone really great falls to us in the first round or two. Receivers like Wilson, Washington, Baker, etc. (read: our typical third or fourth guys) are a dime a dozen, so why spend a draft pick when we can just pick one up for about $1-2 million a year?

Anyway, bottom line is it feels a lot better to be thinking, "What kind of players will we need to take over for these Pro Bowlers a year or two from now" instead of "Oh, crap, we're getting murdered on defense and we have no quarterback; who the hell can we get to stop from going 4-12 again?"

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-13-2008, 01:52 AM
Receivers like Wilson, Washington, Baker, etc. (read: our typical third or fourth guys) are a dime a dozen, so why spend a draft pick when we can just pick one up for about $1-2 million a year?

" I'm just thinking if they find a WR or DB that can add depth and return kicks, he will be cheaper than $1-2 Million a year. Bruce Davis was the 3rd round pick and signed a deal that averages $385 000 a year with a 500k signing bonus....so he only counts around half a million a year on the cap. A lot better than $1-2 mil.

Its typical of how the Steelers save $$ by developing their draft picks rather than spend in free agency.

steelreserve
12-13-2008, 12:19 PM
I'm just thinking if they find a WR or DB that can add depth and return kicks, he will be cheaper than $1-2 Million a year. Bruce Davis was the 3rd round pick and signed a deal that averages $385 000 a year with a 500k signing bonus....so he only counts around half a million a year on the cap. A lot better than $1-2 mil.

Its typical of how the Steelers save $$ by developing their draft picks rather than spend in free agency.

Most of our guys, we get through the draft-and-develop method, yeah. But what I've seen us tend to do is bring in one or two mid-level guys per year in FA to fill needs, and only rarely go after a high-profile player in FA or a trade. But if we were going to do it, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the year -- we'll have a nice chunk of change coming free with Starks and Smith's contracts expiring.

It definitely would be nice to have someone explosive returning kicks -- I was pretty pissed that after DeSean Jackson fell so far, we didn't make a move for him and then took another WR instead. But as for a rookie returning kicks ... man, I still cringe when I think of Holmes back there the year that he fumbled 46 times, or whatever it was.