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View Full Version : Senate Kills the Auto Bill


Borski
12-11-2008, 11:37 PM
Good Riddance.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/12/11/auto-bailout-collapses-senate-despite-intense-negotiations/

hindes204
12-12-2008, 12:03 AM
Like ive said in previous posts...let them go bankrupt....and yes, i do know what this implies, and yes, many people will lose jobs....but in America, a great country by the way, thats the way things work. If you manage your business the way these idiots at the big three did, then the business goes bankrupt, somebody else takes over, the company is restructured, and eventually it is a better company for it.

Borski
12-12-2008, 12:15 AM
Like ive said in previous posts...let them go bankrupt....and yes, i do know what this implies, and yes, many people will lose jobs....but in America, a great country by the way, thats the way things work. If you manage your business the way these idiots at the big three did, then the business goes bankrupt, somebody else takes over, the company is restructured, and eventually it is a better company for it.

Thats what I say too.

After 9/11 the airlines whent banckrupt, that allowed them to restructure and I belive some of them are turning a profit now.

Let the auto companies go banckrupt, it will allow them to restructure from the ground up instead of throwing money into a black hole with the way things are now.

Preacher
12-12-2008, 01:23 AM
What kills me... it wasn't the senate, or the auto companies. It was the Union not wanting to budge on wages. . . to bring them in line with what Japanese automakers in the states are making.

Well, that is why those Japanese automakers will be buying up your factory shops now.

Oh wait, no, they won't. They will stay in non-union states and build cars much cheaper with just as or better quality.

Silly Unions, Jobs are created by companies.

Maybe if we got a kids to say it to a rabbit, it would be understood better.

Crushzilla
12-12-2008, 01:43 AM
What kills me... it wasn't the senate, or the auto companies. It was the Union not wanting to budge on wages. . . to bring them in line with what Japanese automakers in the states are making.

Well, that is why those Japanese automakers will be buying up your factory shops now.

Oh wait, no, they won't. They will stay in non-union states and build cars much cheaper with just as or better quality.

Silly Unions, Jobs are created by companies.

Maybe if we got a kids to say it to a rabbit, it would be understood better.

But can we agree on the... perhaps idealistic.... value of a union?

I do agree, though, that too often the waistbands stretch too far.

"Here is your bed. It should look familiar; you made it, after all."

SteelMember
12-12-2008, 07:19 AM
What kills me... it wasn't the senate, or the auto companies. It was the Union not wanting to budge on wages. . . to bring them in line with what Japanese automakers in the states are making.

Well, that is why those Japanese automakers will be buying up your factory shops now.

Oh wait, no, they won't. They will stay in non-union states and build cars much cheaper with just as or better quality.

Silly Unions, Jobs are created by companies.

Maybe if we got a kids to say it to a rabbit, it would be understood better.

Totally agree!

I personally know an auto union worker who, after automation, lost his job on the assembly line, made upwards of $36 an hour for driving vehicles from the manufacturing facility to the railyard about 2 miles away. After he damaged so many vehicles while loading them onto the railcars, he now drives the shuttle bus to bring the drivers back to the plant for another trip. He got a raise. :doh:

revefsreleets
12-12-2008, 08:32 AM
Ford wasn't taking any money anyway.

GM and Chrysler need to revisit their merger. Slim down, retool, and re-emerge as a leaner better run single entity carrying maybe 10 models of cars (Nissan, Honda and Toyota all have set the standard).

LambertIsGod58
12-12-2008, 08:45 AM
I read somewhere that the average UAW member was making $83/hr which included wages, benefits and retirement. If their stance is they won't stand for a paycut, then let them go under.

TackleMeBen
12-12-2008, 08:54 AM
union workers usually make at least 30.00 an hour,just wage. then if they work on holidays they get what is called triple time, so that means for that day they make 90.00 an hour.. the union has killed the auto industry in this country, like the executives they all got to greedy and now its time to come back to reality.

Fire Haley
12-12-2008, 08:55 AM
Buy Toyota!

SCSTILLER
12-12-2008, 08:57 AM
I read somewhere that the average UAW member was making $83/hr which included wages, benefits and retirement. If their stance is they won't stand for a paycut, then let them go under.

Also, every big 3 auto that rolls off the assembly line has 2-3 thousand dollars attatched to it for legacy costs. So, right off the bat, you are paying more for a car than if you went to Honda, Toyota, etc. Plus, they make better, more reliable cars. Let them suffer the same fate as the airlines, and retool. And kick the greedy unions to the curb

LambertIsGod58
12-12-2008, 09:07 AM
union workers usually make at least 30.00 an hour,just wage. then if they work on holidays they get what is called triple time, so that means for that day they make 90.00 an hour.. the union has killed the auto industry in this country, like the executives they all got to greedy and now its time to come back to reality.

EXACTLY!!!!!

RunWillieRun
12-12-2008, 10:56 AM
Buy Toyota!

Just did this summer.

2009 Corolla...great mileage and so far no problems.

xfl2001fan
12-12-2008, 11:09 AM
Buy Toyota!

I'm more of a Honda guy myself.

43Hitman
12-12-2008, 12:29 PM
We bought a Nissan a couple years ago. It's been the best car we have ever owned.

beSteelmyheart
12-12-2008, 05:17 PM
When I heard the union wouldn't budge, I was:jawdrop: ! It just seems so utterly selfish in light of everything else that's going on with our economy. Absolutely sickening. Call their bluff & let them go bankrupt, screw them.

TackleMeBen
12-12-2008, 06:53 PM
i loved my honda accord. i drove that thing until it blew up. it was the best car i ever owned.

GBMelBlount
12-13-2008, 08:44 AM
i loved my honda accord. i drove that thing until it blew up. it was the best car i ever owned.

Gosh TMB, I hope you weren't injured. :chuckle:

SCSTILLER

Also, every big 3 auto that rolls off the assembly line has 2-3 thousand dollars attached to it for legacy costs.

Not to mention the cost for the "jobs bank". When they automated in the mid 80's for quality control and cost savings purposes, the unions said that is fine but you can't get rid of anyone. So they created a "jobs bank" which has been comprised of between 11,000 and 15,000 people at various times, who, on a daily basis, are currently paid $30.80 / hr. + full benefits and paid vacation to sit in a lunch room and read, watch tv and play video games while getting seniority. At let's say $45 / hr. (all things considered) x 8 hours x 11,000 = an additional $4 million dollars of cost PER DAY that must be accounted for in the sales price of their cars......

Is management to blame as well. Yes. But I'm just saying....

LambertIsGod58
12-13-2008, 09:08 AM
Gosh TMB, I hope you weren't injured. :chuckle:


Not to mention the cost for the "jobs bank". When they automated in the mid 80's for quality control and cost savings purposes, the unions said that is fine but you can't get rid of anyone. So they created a "jobs bank" which has been comprised of between 11,000 and 15,000 people at various times, who, on a daily basis, are currently paid $30.80 / hr. + full benefits and paid vacation to sit in a lunch room and read, watch tv and play video games while getting seniority. At let's say $45 / hr. (all things considered) x 8 hours x 11,000 = an additional $4 million dollars of cost PER DAY that must be accounted for in the sales price of their cars......

Is management to blame as well. Yes. But I'm just saying....

Great post Mel....if we gave them the bailout money without them making changes it would have been the same story all over again.

xfl2001fan
12-13-2008, 09:11 AM
i loved my honda accord. i drove that thing until it blew up. it was the best car i ever owned.

As the third owner of my 92 Accord, I took it from 75K to 250K miles before the engive finally gave out. How'd you do?

SteelCityMan786
12-13-2008, 12:23 PM
Buy Toyota!

I would, if they didn't play that stupid saved by Zero Commercial

cowboykilla
12-13-2008, 04:38 PM
I wonder if you guys worked in the auto industry would you still have the same outlook on this subject?

43Hitman
12-13-2008, 05:44 PM
I wonder if you guys worked in the auto industry would you still have the same outlook on this subject?


So do you disagree with the fact they are extremely overpaid? I don't think any of us want to see these people lose their jobs, but when the union refuses to negotiate wages and beneifts then they get what they deserve. NOTHING.

LambertIsGod58
12-13-2008, 05:47 PM
I wonder if you guys worked in the auto industry would you still have the same outlook on this subject?

Actually, yes. If I were a UAW member, I'd know that making half the money I was is still better than the reality of what's out there. So, to reitterate YES!!

TackleMeBen
12-14-2008, 08:03 AM
I wonder if you guys worked in the auto industry would you still have the same outlook on this subject?
i live in the detroit area and have many friends that work for the auto industry and yes i still have the same opinion...let them go under!!! then maybe the execs and UAW would wake up... this isnt 1970 anymore... times changed, the auto industry didnt. its not fair, but they are getting what they deserve(they meaning the execs and UAW)

beSteelmyheart
12-14-2008, 07:16 PM
I wonder if you guys worked in the auto industry would you still have the same outlook on this subject?
I would at least be willing to compromise.

Preacher
12-14-2008, 08:34 PM
I wonder if you guys worked in the auto industry would you still have the same outlook on this subject?

Absolutely.

Actually, I would be tearing up union meetings, and trying to raise a vote to decertify the union myself.

revefsreleets
12-15-2008, 08:09 AM
I'm getting HAMMERED at my job. Accounts are pulling left and right, and I can't fill up the other end of the funnel fast enough to compenstae.

But I'm still happy to have a job (I sell radio and TV advertising for those that don't know). It's been a blood bath in both the Akron and Cleveland market. I mean K Rock in Cleveland literally fired everyone. EVERYONE.

I have worked for companies before that were unionized and I refused to join. I was threated, too, but I still abstained. I don't believe the union has a place in Detroit anymore, and I have put my money where my mouth was before.

So, yeah, I'd say that if it was my butt on the line I'd be encouraging my union to compromise and help save my job and industry.

TackleMeBen
12-15-2008, 10:30 AM
the workers think its their right to make 30.00 an hour. and when they go on strike and the company hires outsiders to come and work for less then get pissed. they cant have their cake and eat it too.. you either want a job or you dont.

i personally hope the auto industry goes under... hondas are better anyway..lol

Borski
12-15-2008, 11:15 AM
the workers think its their right to make 30.00 an hour. and when they go on strike and the company hires outsiders to come and work for less then get pissed. they cant have their cake and eat it too.. you either want a job or you dont.

i personally hope the auto industry goes under... hondas are better anyway..lol

I'd like them to go bankrupt, but not out of buissness. Bankruptcy will allow the companies to restructure so they have a better chance at adapting to the current global economy. Alot of people will lose alot of jobs, but nowhere near the amount that would happen if the companies went under completely.

I don't want to see the auto companys get 1 single red cent in aid though, any bailout will leave them coming back for more, these companies need a total restructuring from the ground up.

stlrtruck
12-15-2008, 11:29 AM
hondas are better anyway..lol

I'll never buy another Honda as long as I live, nor will I allow my wife or children to buy one. After the problems we had getting my wife's CRV fixed properly and the way the dealership and regional manager treated us.

I'd buy a Toyota or Nissan right now. But Honda wouldn't get my money if they were the last freakin' care dealer on earth!

XxKnightxX
12-26-2008, 09:55 AM
95 Nissan Maxima baby , 5spd manual monster. all Ive ever done to it is just preventive maintenance. drove that bad boy to Pittsburgh and Back, 800 miles, not a single problem.

as for GM, let free market capitalism take over, let these greedy bastards crumble on their own garbage and let the new companies emerge. They have been on the greed trail for the past 20 years with the NAFTA and the extinction of their electric cars back in the early 2000s, they have no need to help the people out, they want to make profits regardless. Besides, their cars have no demand. I work as an EMT and my base has a big Chevy dealer right across where Im at, and over the past 3 months, the same cars have been there the whole time.