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View Full Version : Offense-- I wonder if THIS is the reason


Preacher
12-14-2008, 10:23 PM
OK.

In thinking through another thread. . . I wonder if I have stumbled upon the problem (or at least part of the problem).

Last year, we faded late. Remember that the team, both vets and rooks, were in pads throughout the season. There were comments about how they were getting worn down. Plus, the training camp last summer.

I wonder if the pendulum has swung the other way a little TOO far. So as to not wear down the team. While that is great for the D, they don't have to worry as much about timing. . .

I wonder if it has hurt the timing of the offense a little bit. Especially when some of the vets are out.

Just a thought.

Please... Let's not make this a "fire Arians" or ----sucks thread. There are VAST differences from last year to this year. I am interested in why THAT has happened.

Steelman16
12-14-2008, 11:31 PM
hmm, good question Preach. You do have a good point. But I'm not sure that is/was the problem.

Because... I think If both Ben and Parker had been 100% for the duration of the season, we wouldn't have had as many crashes on offense.

We destroyed Houston in game one. That's when Ben got hurt and it seemed like all downhill from there. The load went on Parker and then he got hurt too. Whether or not some fans would like to see someone else run the backfield, Parker is our man and when he's down it brings a different taste to the O. (props to MeMo for stepping in admirably though!)

Now though, we're getting healthier and back into rhythem at the right time.

MACH1
12-14-2008, 11:36 PM
I hope they can start clicking a bit better. Hopefully that bye week will help out with that.

GridironWarrior
12-15-2008, 12:05 AM
Interesting idea but I don't buy it. The entire O is just putrid & inconsistent plain and simple.

The Lakelander
12-15-2008, 12:12 AM
Don't read into it.

It's been the injuries, the schedule, and the injuries some more. Heath missed a few games. Santonio was suspended a game. Ben has the shoulder issue. Parker missed 5 games with the knee. We lost two starting o-linemen.

How the hellsky does a team find continuity under those circumstances? Give these guys some credit. They're now 11-3 and in the playoffs!

:tt:

tony hipchest
12-15-2008, 12:16 AM
its just a tough schedule and an accumulation of injuries, BUT...

our offense should be able to score 38 points against our defense.

:rolleyes: we really need a sarcasm....

markymarc
12-15-2008, 06:29 AM
Last year our biggest thing was injuries that caused the fade down the stretch. This season we are getting healthy at the perfect time.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-15-2008, 08:07 AM
I dont think it was a matter of "fading down the stretch".

On NFL Network, Tom Waddle said something like "the Steelers lack of a solid running game will hurt them vs. the Ravens and is a foreshadowing of things to come in the playoffs, just like last season"

I tend to agree, but hope we can somehow overcome it all and get a ring for the other hand.

KeiselPower99
12-15-2008, 08:14 AM
Im gonna say injuries have caused alot of the problems on the offense but whe nit matters we score. You dont always have to win huge.

BritishSteel
12-15-2008, 09:00 AM
I dont think it was a matter of "fading down the stretch".

On NFL Network, Tom Waddle said something like "the Steelers lack of a solid running game will hurt them vs. the Ravens and is a foreshadowing of things to come in the playoffs, just like last season"

I tend to agree, but hope we can somehow overcome it all and get a ring for the other hand.

I've given this some thought and I'm starting to come to the conclusion that Arians (for better or worse) and Tomlin are looking at changing our whole offensive philosophy and that this is an offence in a state of transition. Player acquisition and draft picks as well as some unorthodox line-ups on ofence seem to suggest this - Arians obviously likes utility players -we've got a back who's a receiving threat in Moore, a TE in McHugh who could play as a big brusing FB if needed, hell, we've even lined up with Max Starks at tight end on a few plays - we picked up Dixon who's obviously a utility player - I think the aim is to produce an offence which is unpredictable, which has a range of different options.

If you accept the transition argument (and one of the things Tomlin did first was simplify the play book) then it stands to reason that it'll take time to get the players we need to make it work (I think we're more or less there with the sword, we just need to upgrade the shield - the O line) and for those players to get used to the change in philosophy. It'll also mean that we become less reliant on the power running game because we'll be looking at backs that have more versitility rather than raw power. If this is the case, it relies a lot on Big Ben making good decisions and managing the wider variety of options likely to be available to him in the future. I don't doubt that he's up to it - game management is one of his strongest suites, so he should thrive.

I'm making no judgement about whether this is right or wrong - only results will determine if this is the case, but it does explain why our O has perhaps striuggled a little in places this season. A clever draft and a good pre-season with players really buying into a philosphical change in offensive priorities will see a marked improvment in Offensive production next year, I think.

NYC SteelersFan
12-15-2008, 09:35 AM
OK.

In thinking through another thread. . . I wonder if I have stumbled upon the problem (or at least part of the problem).

Last year, we faded late. Remember that the team, both vets and rooks, were in pads throughout the season. There were comments about how they were getting worn down. Plus, the training camp last summer.

I wonder if the pendulum has swung the other way a little TOO far. So as to not wear down the team. While that is great for the D, they don't have to worry as much about timing. . .

I wonder if it has hurt the timing of the offense a little bit. Especially when some of the vets are out.

Just a thought.

Please... Let's not make this a "fire Arians" or ----sucks thread. There are VAST differences from last year to this year. I am interested in why THAT has happened.

lol...I'll give you credit Preacher. You've thrown everything including the kitchen sink at our offensive woes, everything except ARIAN'S IS JUST PLAIN AWFUL!

If we win this year, it's because of the defense and Roethlisberger coming through late in games this year. If we win, it will be in absolute despite of our 'new" and "crafty" offensive system and offensive play-calling. I like Tomlin, I just hope he's not another Herm Edwards.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-15-2008, 09:56 AM
I've given this some thought and I'm starting to come to the conclusion that Arians (for better or worse) and Tomlin are looking at changing our whole offensive philosophy and that this is an offence in a state of transition. Player acquisition and draft picks as well as some unorthodox line-ups on ofence seem to suggest this - Arians obviously likes utility players -we've got a back who's a receiving threat in Moore, a TE in McHugh who could play as a big brusing FB if needed, hell, we've even lined up with Max Starks at tight end on a few plays - we picked up Dixon who's obviously a utility player - I think the aim is to produce an offence which is unpredictable, which has a range of different options.

If you accept the transition argument (and one of the things Tomlin did first was simplify the play book) then it stands to reason that it'll take time to get the players we need to make it work (I think we're more or less there with the sword, we just need to upgrade the shield - the O line) and for those players to get used to the change in philosophy. It'll also mean that we become less reliant on the power running game because we'll be looking at backs that have more versitility rather than raw power. If this is the case, it relies a lot on Big Ben making good decisions and managing the wider variety of options likely to be available to him in the future. I don't doubt that he's up to it - game management is one of his strongest suites, so he should thrive.

I'm making no judgement about whether this is right or wrong - only results will determine if this is the case, but it does explain why our O has perhaps striuggled a little in places this season. A clever draft and a good pre-season with players really buying into a philosphical change in offensive priorities will see a marked improvment in Offensive production next year, I think.

I just think its only the 2nd season of Arians offense in which he is still having to use players from the Cowher era. When he gets his guys the offense should be more dynamic, but still will not incorporate a physical running game. Its not BA's style.

Look back to his offense at Temple where Paul Palmer had an enormous year and the Browns offenses of the early 2000's. Spread the field, multiple options but power running wasnt a base of it, so its not fair to expect it unless something dramatic changes.

Best thing to do is sit back and enjoy what happens. Hey Brit....what do you enjoy games with? Tetley Bitters? Newkie Brown?? Smithwicks??

BritishSteel
12-15-2008, 10:19 AM
Best thing to do is sit back and enjoy what happens. Hey Brit....what do you enjoy games with? Tetley Bitters? Newkie Brown?? Smithwicks??

:sofunny:

Boddingtons if it's not a 4:15pm start (drinking at 1am GMT before the start of the working week is for those with better livers than I've got!)

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-15-2008, 10:24 AM
:sofunny:

Boddingtons if it's not a 4:15pm start (drinking at 1am GMT before the start of the working week is for those with better livers than I've got!)
Whats wrong?.......American Airlines pilots drink and fly, why cant RAF??

revefsreleets
12-15-2008, 11:51 AM
As I was watching the game yesterday, I noticed on several occasions some very creative playcalling on Arians/Ben's part. Again, I'm not sure why Arians is being held responsible for A) Excellent defensive play by the Ravens and B) Lack of execution by the Steelers, but he IS the GWB of the Steelers, and people need a goat...

Dino 6 Rings
12-15-2008, 11:58 AM
When its 2nd and 6, and you've just gotten your 1st first down of the game, and the Wide Receiver DROPS a simple out route for the 1st. That sucks.

Then its 3rd and 6 and we False Start.

3rd and 11.

6 yard pass to Miller. Punt on 4th.

Nothing wrong with the play calling. A Dropped Ball and a Penalty killed the first drive.

2nd drive
Moore Run 5 yards
Moore Run 5 yards, 1st down
Moore run no gain
2nd and 10 Run 4 yards.
3rd and 6, pass, Holmes DROPS the pass.

That's the first 2 drives yesterday killed by either a dropped ball or a bad penalty by the offense.

That's not play calling, that's not on the QB. That's not even on the Oline blocking. Those first 2 drives were killed because of Lack of Focus by guys that weren't dialed into the game yet. Holmes, Nate and Colon.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-15-2008, 12:12 PM
As I was watching the game yesterday, I noticed on several occasions some very creative playcalling on Arians/Ben's part. Again, I'm not sure why Arians is being held responsible for A) Excellent defensive play by the Ravens and B) Lack of execution by the Steelers, but he IS the GWB of the Steelers, and people need a goat...

Very true. Arians dragging Ward underneath for some big catches was some great playcalling. He cant help it that Heath Miller was getting stuffed in the backfield by Jarret Johnson and stuffing runs by Parker and Moore.

I think the 3rd and short INT that Ben handed over was an indication that we cant run on short yardage and Ben honestly had Carey Davis open underneath, but was looking for Miller in the flat. I think BA is under fire from the fans because his offense is anything but "Steeler Football" as it was know to be in the past.

revefsreleets
12-15-2008, 12:23 PM
"Steelers Football" on the last drive would have resulted in a 9-6 loss yesterday.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-15-2008, 12:41 PM
"Steelers Football" on the last drive would have resulted in a 9-6 loss yesterday.

True, but I think just about everybody realizes that you cant run a 2 minute offense by constantly running behind a FB. Even the "predictible Steeler Football" running offenses of the Bill Cowher era never tried that.

lilyoder6
12-15-2008, 12:59 PM
i think on that final drive.. on the 2nd and goal play when ben threw it to speath was a smart call... def know ben likes heath in the redzone, so y not switch it up and throw a quick pass 2 the tall man spaeth.. and it almost worked