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UltimateFootballNetwork
12-16-2008, 02:13 PM
Those of you not interested in the Parker/Moore discussion should roll your eyes now and back out of this thread. Given that the Steelers now look like they are a consistent running game away from the Super Bowl, it seems shocking to me that Parkers ego may be the thing that costs the Steelers ring #6. I noticed that every time Parker comes in the offense stalls, so I went to check that against the drive summaries.

Consider the following-

Since Parker returned to the field 5 games ago, the Steelers have scored 8 offensive TDs. On those 8 drives, Willie Parkers total contribution on all 8 drives is....

2 carries for 1 yard.

Seriously. That was on the 1st TD drive vs the Bengals.

Looking at the other TD drives, 1 TD was a 1 yard drive vs NE which was a Gary Russell TD and one was an 8 yard TD drive vs NE which was a Hines Ward TD pass.

The other 5 TD drives-

3rd Q vs Cinn- Mewelde Moore- 4 rushes, 21 yards, 1 reception, 22 yards (9 yards PR)
4th Q vs Cinn- MM- 7 rushes, 30 yards, 1 reception, 18 yards, (24 yards KR)
2nd Q vs NE- MM- 3 rushes, 23 yards, 2 receptions, 9 yards
4th Q vs Dallas- no huddle (MM in the backfield)
4th Q vs Baltimore- MM- 1 rush, 3 yards, no huddle (MM in the backfield)

So why was Parker made a co-captain again? You dont have to be a coach to see that Parker is bogging down the offense. The Steelers havent scored a TD with Parker in the backfield in 5 games, whereas Moore, playing far less has been responsible for getting more points on the board.

As for the FG drives in the past 5 games, there have been 13 FGs and most have been on drives where Parker is the feature back. Parkers role in those drives....

vs SD
2nd Q- 0 carries (MM has 1 reception, 2 yards)
3rd Q- 4 rushes, 20 yards, (MM has 1 reception, 5 yards)
4th Q- 6 rushes, 30 yards

vs Cinn-
2nd Q- 4 rushes, 9 yards
3rd Q- 3 rushes, 23 yards

vs NE-
1st Q- 3 rushes, 5 yards
3rd Q- 2 rushes, 8 yards (MM has 5 rushes, 42 yards)
3rd Q- 2 rushes, 6 yards,
4th Q- 3 rushes, 45 yards

vs Dallas
2nd Q- 3 rushes, 8 yards
4th Q- 1 rush, 2 yards

vs Balt
2nd Q- 3 rushes, 9 yards, 1 reception, 4 yards
4th Q- 2 rushes, 13 yards

Seems pretty clear that for whatever the reason, the Steelers dont score points when Parker gets the ball. For all the drives that Parker has been a part of, he has contributed 20+ yards on only 4 drives for FGs.

I dont understand how Moore is not the starter.

Sharkissle29
12-16-2008, 02:20 PM
and it continues....

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-16-2008, 02:24 PM
and it continues.... Shouldnt it?

The Duke
12-16-2008, 02:26 PM
Interesting decision by Tomlin :thumbsup:

but, willie should be benched? yeah, sure :coffee:

I dont understand how Moore is not the starter.

Wait for it...........

Tomlin makes the decision, not you, not me. that simple

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 02:27 PM
:banging::banging::banging::tombstone:sign05:

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 02:31 PM
Shouldnt it?

I am pretty sure everyone here knows how you feel. So if this is all you have to offer this board you can :sign07:

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-16-2008, 02:36 PM
I am pretty sure everyone here knows how you feel. So if this is all you have to offer this board you can :sign07: So reasonable opinions backed by thorough research are not welcome here but you can call me a troll because you dont like my opinion?

Can you refute the findings in the original post? If not, then it would seem I have a valid point.

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 02:41 PM
Because I don't want to waste my time trying to refute something that I have no control over. I prefer to trust the coaches judgement not yours. Thanks, that is all. NEXT.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 02:44 PM
Those of you not interested in the Parker/Moore discussion should roll your eyes now and back out of this thread. Given that the Steelers now look like they are a consistent running game away from the Super Bowl, it seems shocking to me that Parkers ego may be the thing that costs the Steelers ring #6. I noticed that every time Parker comes in the offense stalls, so I went to check that against the drive summaries.

Consider the following-

Since Parker returned to the field 5 games ago, the Steelers have scored 8 offensive TDs. On those 8 drives, Willie Parkers total contribution on all 8 drives is....

2 carries for 1 yard.

Seriously. That was on the 1st TD drive vs the Bengals.

Looking at the other TD drives, 1 TD was a 1 yard drive vs NE which was a Gary Russell TD and one was an 8 yard TD drive vs NE which was a Hines Ward TD pass.

The other 5 TD drives-

3rd Q vs Cinn- Mewelde Moore- 4 rushes, 21 yards, 1 reception, 22 yards (9 yards PR)
4th Q vs Cinn- MM- 7 rushes, 30 yards, 1 reception, 18 yards, (24 yards KR)
2nd Q vs NE- MM- 3 rushes, 23 yards, 2 receptions, 9 yards
4th Q vs Dallas- no huddle (MM in the backfield)
4th Q vs Baltimore- MM- 1 rush, 3 yards, no huddle (MM in the backfield)

So why was Parker made a co-captain again? You dont have to be a coach to see that Parker is bogging down the offense. The Steelers havent scored a TD with Parker in the backfield in 5 games, whereas Moore, playing far less has been responsible for getting more points on the board.

As for the FG drives in the past 5 games, there have been 13 FGs and most have been on drives where Parker is the feature back. Parkers role in those drives....

vs SD
2nd Q- 0 carries (MM has 1 reception, 2 yards)
3rd Q- 4 rushes, 20 yards, (MM has 1 reception, 5 yards)
4th Q- 6 rushes, 30 yards

vs Cinn-
2nd Q- 4 rushes, 9 yards
3rd Q- 3 rushes, 23 yards

vs NE-
1st Q- 3 rushes, 5 yards
3rd Q- 2 rushes, 8 yards (MM has 5 rushes, 42 yards)
3rd Q- 2 rushes, 6 yards,
4th Q- 3 rushes, 45 yards

vs Dallas
2nd Q- 3 rushes, 8 yards
4th Q- 1 rush, 2 yards

vs Balt
2nd Q- 3 rushes, 9 yards, 1 reception, 4 yards
4th Q- 2 rushes, 13 yards

Seems pretty clear that for whatever the reason, the Steelers dont score points when Parker gets the ball. For all the drives that Parker has been a part of, he has contributed 20+ yards on only 4 drives for FGs.

I dont understand how Moore is not the starter.

Now this is bringing the meat! Excellent stats, absolutely excellent. I've been calling him Willie "TDK" Parker for weeks now. TDK=the drive killer. As you've said and as your greats tats show, it is true, he absolutely kills the offensive drives for whatever reason. Whether he is injured or on the way down in his career, he hurts the offense at this point in time. Tomlin's commitment to him is a problem, I can only hope that our offensive problems miraculously dissapear in the playoffs or the defense just steps it up another notch (if that's possible).

steelreserve
12-16-2008, 02:48 PM
I am pretty sure everyone here knows how you feel. So if this is all you have to offer this board you can :sign07:

Really? So if Ike Taylor got burned for three touchdowns a game for a month in a row, would you expect people to talk about it after the first game, and then not mention it after the other three games because "it had already been discussed"? If they'd hadn't ruled Holmes' catch a touchdown, would you say we shouldn't still be complaining about the refs because we already did it after the Chargers game?

As long as Parker continues to go out and have crappy games like he did again on Sunday, I really don't see any reason why it isn't fair game. Unless you just can't deal with the fact that not everyone agrees with you. Which is sure what it sounds like. Where -- other than a high school pep squad -- do you expect to hear positive things about the guy who's just screwed up in something like 5 out of his last 6 games?

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 02:48 PM
I LOVE THE STEELERS, THERE COACHES AND ALL THE PLAYERS CAUSE I AM JUST A BIG OLE CHEERLEADER!


:cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:: cheer::cheer:

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 02:49 PM
Because I don't want to waste my time trying to refute something that I have no control over. I prefer to trust the coaches judgement not yours. Thanks, that is all. NEXT.

Would you refute that Roethlisberger isn't a top 10 quarterback if someone said he wasn't? You have no control over Roethlisberger's greatness but you would argue for it wouldn't you? He thinks Parker sucks at this point in time and is making an arguement for it, and he's actually using stats to back his opinion, not just ranting without a shread of proof. Nothing wrong with that ed.

Addition: Yes I absolutely believe he sucks also at this point in time. And if you made a thread saying you think he's good, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I would argue it...lol...but I wouldn't have a problem with you starting the thread.

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 02:51 PM
Hasn't this already been argued for the last 3 weeks? Thread meet dead horse.

steelreserve
12-16-2008, 02:53 PM
Hasn't this already been argued for the last 3 weeks? Thread meet dead horse.

More like an ongoing debate where new evidence comes out every week. But same thing, I guess. :noidea:

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 02:53 PM
Hasn't this already been argued for the last 3 weeks? Thread meet dead horse.

LOL...if the moderators wouldn't lock the thread, the complaints would continue on that 1 thread. But the thread gets locked so new threads open up for the "complainers" to complain.

The Duke
12-16-2008, 02:53 PM
Problem is, this same topic has been argued to death already

If you want to continue beating the dead horse fine, I'm not interfering anymore

Preacher
12-16-2008, 02:56 PM
I wonder what the over/under of posts before this thread is closed will be? I lay 5 on the under.


Oh yeah, and Willie was our best rusher on Sunday, or didn't you see the stats?

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 02:57 PM
Problem is, this same topic has been argued to death already

If you want to continue beating the dead horse fine, I'm not interfering anymore

Some people like beating a dead horse until they can find a live horse to beat on, you know what I'm saying Duke?

It's the starting running back, it's a good forum arguement and I personally enjoy stating my reasons for why he sucks with other members who want to engage in the arguement. There's no attempt to annoy anyone here, "bitch and moan" or "whine", fair enough?

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 02:58 PM
I wonder what the over/under of posts before this thread is closed will be? I lay 5 on the under.


Oh yeah, and Willie was our best rusher on Sunday, or didn't you see the stats?

Heath Miller could've rushed for 47 yards on 14 carries.

fansince'76
12-16-2008, 03:01 PM
Heath Miller could've rushed for 47 yards on 14 carries.

He had a better rushing average than Moore did (7 for 16 yards).

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 03:07 PM
He had a better rushing average than Moore did (7 for 16 yards).

You want some statistical meat fan?? open up that appetite friend.

When Parker gets more than 10 carries a game:

9 games
168 attempts
644 yards
3.8 yards per attempt

When Moore gets more than 10 carries a game

6 games
107 attempts
483 yards
4.5 yards per attempt

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-16-2008, 03:12 PM
You want some statistical meat fan?? open up that appetite friend.

When Parker gets more than 10 carries a game:

9 games
168 attempts
644 yards
3.8 yards per attempt

When Moore gets more than 10 carries a game

6 games
107 attempts
483 yards
4.5 yards per attempt Thats sort of the rest of the issue, this is a clear trend across any and every statistic out there, as if the naked eye isnt enough to make it clear.

So the question remains, why is it such a foregone conclusion to the coaches that FWP remains the starter? Its clear that hes holding back the offense. They havent gotten in the end zone in FIVE games with FWP on the field....thats really really bad under any circumstances and a clear trend.

steelreserve
12-16-2008, 03:15 PM
He had a better rushing average than Moore did (7 for 16 yards).

Yeah, that just means they both sucked, not that Parker did any good.

Frustrating part is, with Parker, you could pretty much tell ahead of time that it was going to happen. With Moore, at least you can still look somewhat surprised.

fansince'76
12-16-2008, 03:17 PM
Yeah, that just means they both sucked, not that Parker did any good.

Frustrating part is, with Parker, you could pretty much tell ahead of time that it was going to happen. With Moore, at least you can still look somewhat surprised.

Or it could be indicative of an OL that cannot open a hole for anyone, which was further evidenced by Moore going 24 for 57 yards against the 25th-ranked run D in the league when he started against the Colts.

Preacher
12-16-2008, 03:18 PM
The problem here isn't Willie's stats, it isn't Willie's running style, it isn't anything to do with Willie at all. Sure everyone is trying to make it SEEM like it is that.. but it is not.

Willie took Jeromes' position when Jerome was about to retire. Its like the new girlfriend after the wife dies. The husband likes her a lot... but the rest of the family hates her.

Go ahead... hate on willie. I understand. Its just an emotional thing for Jerome.

But MeMo is NOT the answer you are looking for. Jerome is the answer you're looking for--whether you realize it or not-- and you aint going to get it

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-16-2008, 03:22 PM
Or it could be indicative of an OL that cannot open a hole for anyone, which was further evidenced by Moore going 24 for 57 yards against the 25th-ranked run D in the league when he started against the Colts. Sorry, but this is an intellectually dishonest argument. Take all the games or none of them, but dont cherrypick the one exception and call that the rule.

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-16-2008, 03:24 PM
The problem here isn't Willie's stats, it isn't Willie's running style, it isn't anything to do with Willie at all. Sure everyone is trying to make it SEEM like it is that.. but it is not.

Willie took Jeromes' position when Jerome was about to retire. Its like the new girlfriend after the wife dies. The husband likes her a lot... but the rest of the family hates her.

Go ahead... hate on willie. I understand. Its just an emotional thing for Jerome.

But MeMo is NOT the answer you are looking for. Jerome is the answer you're looking for--whether you realize it or not-- and you aint going to get it What? No, this is nothing against Willie Parker.

This has everything to do with a RB who has been so sporadic that he hasnt contributed to a TD drive in 5+ games. Thats it...nothing more. Nothing to do with Bettis and only something to do with the RB currently on the roster outdoing FWP.

fansince'76
12-16-2008, 03:24 PM
Sorry, but this is an intellectually dishonest argument. Take all the games or none of them, but dont cherrypick the one exception and call that the rule.

Yeah, I already did in another thread and I'm not going to rehash it. The whole premise of this thread is based on cherry-picked stats to pin all the woes of this offense on Willie and I for one don't buy it, sorry.

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-16-2008, 03:29 PM
Yeah, I already did in another thread and I'm not going to rehash it. The whole premise of this thread is based on cherry-picked stats to pin all the woes of this offense on Willie and I for one don't buy it, sorry. What are you talking about? I included every scoring drive in the last 5 games and what each RB contributed to it. How is that cherry picking?

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 03:32 PM
The problem here isn't Willie's stats, it isn't Willie's running style, it isn't anything to do with Willie at all. Sure everyone is trying to make it SEEM like it is that.. but it is not.
Willie took Jeromes' position when Jerome was about to retire. Its like the new girlfriend after the wife dies. The husband likes her a lot... but the rest of the family hates her.

Go ahead... hate on willie. I understand. Its just an emotional thing for Jerome.

But MeMo is NOT the answer you are looking for. Jerome is the answer you're looking for--whether you realize it or not-- and you aint going to get it

The only person trying to make something it's not is you, if you can't argue these numbers that's fine, just say so. But don't try to use a Dr. Phil approach to completely ignore them.

When Parker gets more than 10 carries a game:

9 games
168 attempts
644 yards
3.8 yards per attempt

When Moore gets more than 10 carries a game

6 games
107 attempts
483 yards
4.5 yards per attempt

Yeah, I already did in another thread and I'm not going to rehash it. The whole premise of this thread is based on cherry-picked stats to pin all the woes of this offense on Willie and I for one don't buy it, sorry.

Are these numbers cherry picked Fan?

When Parker gets more than 10 carries a game:

9 games
168 attempts
644 yards
3.8 yards per attempt

When Moore gets more than 10 carries a game

6 games
107 attempts
483 yards
4.5 yards per attempt

Preacher
12-16-2008, 03:42 PM
Yeah, I already did in another thread and I'm not going to rehash it. The whole premise of this thread is based on cherry-picked stats to pin all the woes of this offense on Willie and I for one don't buy it, sorry.

DING DING DING

Funny how they leave out WHEN MeMo comes in. . . at the end of the game or third down, when the D is on tired legs and MeMo has fresh legs. . . or when they are looking for a pass.


BTW NYC St. fan...

I am having fun with you because the point of the thread is old, tired, and idiotic. Stats do not tell the whole story. They tell the story that the person is TRYING to get across. They can and are manipulated. Your stats are manipulated.

You did not give me time stamps on when the runs occurred. Down and distance. What was the play before hand. How often had that play been ran before? Where they trying to set up another play with that play. ALL those things factor in to those supposed "Statistical facts" that you gave, but they were not explored.

THAT is why I think threads like this are idiotic. . . you talk about a "Dr. Phil" answer.. this thread and subject is the epitome of a Monday Morning QB answer from people who have no IDEA what is REALLY being done on Sunday. That goes for ALL of us. To assume that you (general, not you, NYC) know better than the coaches and F.O. what this team needs to do is both arrogant and ass-inine (and yes, that is misspelled on purpose). Until someone from the team steps up and says that Willie is not getting the job done. I will believe that he is the best one for the system they are running. Period.

Do we REALLY have to spread our ignorance in another thread? Because no one knows except the coaches that calls the plays.

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 03:47 PM
DING DING DING

Funny how they leave out WHEN MeMo comes in. . . at the end of the game or third down, when the D is on tired legs and MeMo has fresh legs. . . or when they are looking for a pass.


BTW NYC St. fan...

I am having fun with you because the point of the thread is old, tired, and idiotic. Stats do not tell the whole story. They tell the story that the person is TRYING to get across. They can and are manipulated. Your stats are manipulated.

You did not give me time stamps on when the runs occurred. Down and distance. What was the play before hand. How often had that play been ran before? Where they trying to set up another play with that play. ALL those things factor in to those supposed "Statistical facts" that you gave, but they were not explored.

THAT is why I think threads like this are idiotic. . . you talk about a "Dr. Phil" answer.. this thread and subject is the epitome of a Monday Morning QB answer from people who have no IDEA what is REALLY being done on Sunday. That goes for ALL of us. To assume that you (general, not you, NYC) know better than the coaches and F.O. what this team needs to do is both arrogant and ass-inine (and yes, that is misspelled on purpose). Until someone from the team steps up and says that Willie is not getting the job done. I will believe that he is the best one for the system they are running. Period.

Do we REALLY have to spread our ignorance in another thread? Because no one knows except the coaches that calls the plays.


Well said Preach as usual. But unfortunately your words are falling on deaf ears, or blind eyes. Whatever.

memphissteelergirl
12-16-2008, 03:56 PM
Nicely done, Preacher! :thumbsup:

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 04:08 PM
DING DING DING

Funny how they leave out WHEN MeMo comes in. . . at the end of the game or third down, when the D is on tired legs and MeMo has fresh legs. . . or when they are looking for a pass.


BTW NYC St. fan...

I am having fun with you because the point of the thread is old, tired, and idiotic. Stats do not tell the whole story. They tell the story that the person is TRYING to get across. They can and are manipulated. Your stats are manipulated.
You did not give me time stamps on when the runs occurred. Down and distance. What was the play before hand. How often had that play been ran before? Where they trying to set up another play with that play. ALL those things factor in to those supposed "Statistical facts" that you gave, but they were not explored.

THAT is why I think threads like this are idiotic. . . you talk about a "Dr. Phil" answer.. this thread and subject is the epitome of a Monday Morning QB answer from people who have no IDEA what is REALLY being done on Sunday. That goes for ALL of us. To assume that you (general, not you, NYC) know better than the coaches and F.O. what this team needs to do is both arrogant and ass-inine (and yes, that is misspelled on purpose). Until someone from the team steps up and says that Willie is not getting the job done. I will believe that he is the best one for the system they are running. Period.

Do we REALLY have to spread our ignorance in another thread? Because no one knows except the coaches that calls the plays.

Why can't/don't you find stats and manipulate them to show why Parker is better than Moore this year? Why do you always counter my stats with a politician's response (sounds good but makes no sense).

As for the rest of your post; As "arrogant" as some are on this site, others are just as "cheerleader'ish". Everything is made the fault of the most unpopular and unglamerous position in football and that is the o-line. It's okay to blame the faceless o-line for everything but the other plays are strictly "hands off". Every popular position player is treated like a dictator who is loved where even if you don't love him, you're still "not allowed" to say so publicly.

The forum is for discussion, I've gone back and read the rules twice just to make sure (I'm serious) about whether or not you can post negative comments about the team or players. It is my right as a member of this forum to post anything negative about any player or the team that I think as long as certain language is not used. It is also the right of you and others to come into these threads and say, "the thread is stupid or pointless or should be locked etc. etc." (although that is just insulting the OP). But it is you and others who take what can be a simple and friendly discussion/arguement into a discussion of whether or not it is appropriate for it to be discussed in the first place and how those discussing it are stupid or arrogant cause they can't do anything about it.

There was a post a few days ago about Aaron smith's son, I think it was stupid. There is nothing anyone of us can do about it and Aaron Smith is never going to read or care to read about the condolences given to him from a fan fourm. But would it have been right for me to go into that thread and say, "why is this being discussed? There isn't anything anyone can do about it, someone should close this thread up". No I did not, I respected the other member's rights and desire to read the story and post as they wished. You should do the same about us "whiners" Preacher. Either argue the stats directly or just leave it be. No one is starting these threads to annoy anyone, they just want to discuss it with others and hear others opinions on the specific matter. If you personally don't want to discuss it or state your opinion on the specific matter, don't. But don't put down others for wanting to (not just you but in general).

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-16-2008, 04:08 PM
DING DING DING

Funny how they leave out WHEN MeMo comes in. . . at the end of the game or third down, when the D is on tired legs and MeMo has fresh legs. . . or when they are looking for a pass.


BTW NYC St. fan...

I am having fun with you because the point of the thread is old, tired, and idiotic. Stats do not tell the whole story. They tell the story that the person is TRYING to get across. They can and are manipulated. Your stats are manipulated.

You did not give me time stamps on when the runs occurred. Down and distance. What was the play before hand. How often had that play been ran before? Where they trying to set up another play with that play. ALL those things factor in to those supposed "Statistical facts" that you gave, but they were not explored.

THAT is why I think threads like this are idiotic. . . you talk about a "Dr. Phil" answer.. this thread and subject is the epitome of a Monday Morning QB answer from people who have no IDEA what is REALLY being done on Sunday. That goes for ALL of us. To assume that you (general, not you, NYC) know better than the coaches and F.O. what this team needs to do is both arrogant and ass-inine (and yes, that is misspelled on purpose). Until someone from the team steps up and says that Willie is not getting the job done. I will believe that he is the best one for the system they are running. Period.

Do we REALLY have to spread our ignorance in another thread? Because no one knows except the coaches that calls the plays.

1) No, I included the quarter in each game where the scoring drive occured and it is consistent across quarters. And the argument that Moore benefits from worn out defenses holds no water because of the stats NYC posted.

2) Why is this old, tired and idiotic? Its based on the last 5 games and it would certainly not be idiotic to question why one player is starting over another who has been more productive. Sounds like you dont want to discuss it because you dont like the conclusion.

3) Those stats didnt address down and distance and other factors? OK, fair enough.

Turns out that Football Outsiders keeps track of those exact factors and their findings also show that Moore is playing much better than Parker.

DYAR, or Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement. This gives the value of the performance on plays where this running back carried/caught the ball compared to replacement level, adjusted for situation and opponent and then translated into yardage.

The next statistic given is DVOA, or Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. This number represents value, per play, over an average running back in the same game situations. The more positive the DVOA rating, the better the player's performance.

Effective Yards (EYds), listed in red, translate DVOA into a yards per attempt figure. This provides an easy comparison: in general, players with more Effective Yards than standard yards played better than standard stats would otherwise indicate, while players with fewer Effective Yards than standard yards played worse than standard stats would otherwise indicate

The final statistic is Success Rate. This number represents the player's consistency, measured by successful running plays (the definition of success being different based on down and distance) divided by total running plays. A player with higher DVOA and a low success rate mixes long runs with downs getting stuffed at the line of scrimmage. A player with lower DVOA and a high success rate generally gets the yards needed, but doesn't often get more.


MM- DYAR- 104, (NFL rank 13), DVOA 9.5% (NFL rank 10), EYds 644, Success Rate 50% (NFL rank 5)
FWP- DYAR 41 (NFL rank 23), DVOA -0.8% (NFL rank 21), Eyds 584, Success Rate 42% (NFL rank 30)

According to Football Outsiders, MM is a top 10 RB in the NFL and FWP is average or below.

MACH1
12-16-2008, 04:11 PM
:yawn: :yawn:

Is this shit ever going to end. Last I looked 11-3 was pretty damn good.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 04:14 PM
Sweet, Stats Fight!

I'm in!

steelpride12
12-16-2008, 04:15 PM
Everyone STOP! Why do we treat people like this who are newer and just stating some interesting facts. I don't agree with him one bit Parker won't just come back from injury with a pathetic line and dominate it will take some time.

the troll calling needs to stop right now. If you don't like what he has to say that why these are forums so state the facts and reasons why he is wrong instead of saying troll! Your the troll if you can't state facts to back his answer and you look like the idiot!

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 04:16 PM
To answer the first question, why was Parker made co-captain. Tomlin basically told him STFU and keep your compaints in house we aren't the Cowboys.

So Tomlin put him out in front of the world (football world) as Co-Captain in a huge game and made him stand there and face the music as Running Back for the Steelers.

Got a complaint Willie, Fine, but don't take it to the press or you'll ride the pine. Learn your lesson and go call Tails. And Defer if we win the toss...

Next...the Stats

MACH1
12-16-2008, 04:16 PM
Sweet, Stats Fight!

I'm in!

Quick, somebody call Marino.

:yawn:

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 04:16 PM
Everyone STOP! Why do we treat people like this who are newer and just stating some interesting facts. I don't agree with him one bit Parker won't just come back from injury with a pathetic line and dominate it will take some time.

the troll calling needs to stop right now. If you don't like what he has to say that why these are forums so state the facts and reasons why he is wrong instead of saying troll! Your the troll if you can't state facts to back his answer and you look like the idiot!

Thank you

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 04:18 PM
First most important Stat

Both our RBs are pretty darn good.

Willie 3.8 av on the season, 0 fumbles
Moore, 4.0 av on the season, 0 fumbles

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 04:23 PM
First Drive, First Game
1st and 10 at the 48. Parker left, no gain
2nd and 10 pass to Miller 6 yards
3rd and 4 shotgun pass, scramble 17 yards
1st and 10 at houston 29, Parker right 3 yards
2nd and 7 Parker right 4 yards
3rd and 3 Shotgun pass to Holmes 9 yards
1st and 10 at Houston 13, pass to Ward 6 yards.
2nd and 4 at the 7, Parker Righ, Touchdown.

First drive of the season...

Want me to do this for every single drive of every game?

revefsreleets
12-16-2008, 04:23 PM
Yet ANOTHER example of where the fans know more than the coaches.

And yet another time I thank Christ that fans are relegated to posting on boards like these and NOT making any kind of meaningful decisions on the field.

(Note: For a great barometer of fan retardation, see Pro Bowl Voting results)

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 04:27 PM
Yet ANOTHER example of where the fans know more than the coaches.

And yet another time I thank Christ that fans are relegated to posting on boards like these and NOT making any kind of meaningful decisions on the field.

(Note: For a great barometer of fan retardation, see Pro Bowl Voting results)

So you're calling those on this thread who think Parker isn't playing well right now retarded huh? Where did you aquire this talent to insult and be rude to other members on the forum without breaking a single forum rule? I find it astonishing. Was it a book? Or did you take lessons somewhere? How many of your 6000 posts are 3 line, subtle insults? Keep practicing, keep posting, you'll be at 10,000condescending, rude and insulting posts in no time.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 04:27 PM
1st game, Drive 2 Ball at the Steeler 24
1st and 10, Deep pass to Ward, 74 yard gain, negated by off setting penalties on ward and Brown.
1st and 10, Parker rush 2 yards
2nd and 8, Pass left Miller 11 yards
1st and 10 Pass incomplete to holmes
2nd and 10 Pass to Ward for 29 yards
1st and 10 ball at Houston 34, Parker rush 2 yards.
2nd and 8 Pass to Miller 9 yards
1st and 10 parker right 1 yard
2nd and 9 parker left 1 yard
3rd and 8 pass to Holmes, 10 yards (fumble out of bounds.)
1st and 10 at the Houston 11. Fumble Snap, 2 yard loss
2nd and 12 Parker rush 13 yards Touchdown!

devilsdancefloor
12-16-2008, 04:30 PM
http://img03.picoodle.com/img/img03/3/12/16/f_nunbongm_48afaf0.jpg

Your more likely to see this than a RB change. I think we all get it Willie is having a bad year!! Every week it is Willie, Ben, coach, BA suck But we are 11-3. And i already know you are going to say it is because of the D. Yes the D is awesome hands down. but the O had to score at least X amount of pints to win. but this point has been argued since i been a member here so it is getting old. unless you have coachs number and he listens to you this topic really needs to die. :drink::tt::tt::tt:

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 04:31 PM
Ok...we killed the Texans, not "fair" to use willies stats from that game in a "willie sucks" thread...

Hold on, let me find a bad game...

revefsreleets
12-16-2008, 04:32 PM
Here's the question: Who made Willie Captain?

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 04:33 PM
http://img03.picoodle.com/img/img03/3/12/16/f_nunbongm_48afaf0.jpg

Your more likely to see this than a RB change. I think we all get it Willie is having a bad year!! Every week it is Willie, Ben, coach, BA suck But we are 11-3. And i already know you are going to say it is because of the D. Yes the D is awesome hands down. but the O had to score at least X amount of pints to win. but this point has been argued since i been a member here so it is getting old. unless you have coachs number and he listens to you this topic really needs to die. :drink::tt::tt::tt:

The thread about Lamar Woodley not making the pro-bowl, what are the chances he'll make the pro-bowl because of that thread? Does anyone on that thread have the NFL's direct number and will the NFL take the call and listen to why Lamar Woodley should be a pro-bowler? And then will the NFL actually put Lamar Woodley on the pro-bowl team?

Why aren't you complaing about that thread? Has anyone gone to complain about how that thread is pointless?

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 04:35 PM
Here's the question: Who made Willie Captain?

UFN and NYC that's who. You see, they are really the coaching staff masquerading as trolls.:wink02:

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 04:37 PM
1st drive Game 2.
1st and 10 at the Steelers 19.
Shotgun pass to Holmes 5 yards
2nd and 5 Pass to Ward 1 yard
3rd and 4 pass to Holmes 16 yards
1st and 10 at Pitts 41 Parker right 2 yards
2nd and 8 Parker right 6 yards
3rd and 2, Pass play SACK
Punt

2nd game, 2nd drive
1st and 10 at Pitts 37. Parker Left 3 yards
2nd and 7. Deep pass to Nate, Inc
3rd and 7 Shotgun pass Inc
4th Punt

2nd game, 3rd drive
1st and 10 at Pitts 33, pass to Ward 19 yards
1st and 10 Parker left 3 yards
2nd and 7 pass to Parker deep, inc
3rd and 7 Shotgun pass to ward Inc.
4th Punt

Last drive of 1st half game 2. Killing clock to get in at halftime, Parker to rushes, 12 yards.

devilsdancefloor
12-16-2008, 04:37 PM
dude you take it way to personal and how many lamarr threads about the pro bowl has there been??????????????

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 04:41 PM
UFN and NYC that's who. You see, they are really the coaching staff masquerading as trolls.:wink02:

You're the troll for coming into this thread with nothing but worthless insulting posts for the OP. You're the troll.

Me and UFN will stay on the imaginary coaching staff if you and rev stay on the imaginary super intelligent and ugly cheerleading squad.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 04:42 PM
2nd Game, 1st drive, 2nd half
1st and 10 at Pitts 23. parker right 11 yards
1st and 10 parker right - 2 yards, holding on Miller.
1st and 20 at Pitts 24. Parker left 5 yards
2nd and 15 Pass play Sack.
3rd and 21 Shotgun pass to Miller 14 yards
4th Punt

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 04:43 PM
:cheer::cheer::cheer:

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 04:43 PM
dude you take it way to personal and how many lamarr threads about the pro bowl has there been??????????????

And those who don't like Parker or want Parker to die or want Parker off the team or whatever negativity they have for Parker would continue posting on that single thread, but trolls come into the thread to stir up nonsense and then the thread gets locked. So someone starts another one. I don't see any problems on the Woodley thread, that thread will be open until the end of the season.

stlrtruck
12-16-2008, 04:43 PM
Here's the thing, Willie has been battling injury and I would have to summize that he isn't 100%. STOP RIGHT THERE - don't give me the if he isn't 100% he shouldn't play, because there isn't one player right now who is playing at 100% that isn't a kicker or punter (and even our punter has problems).

The coaches obviously see something in him and believe he is vital to the success of our offense. And while our offense has occassionally put up some points (specifically the NE game comes to mind), they've also been just as lackluster without Parker in the backfield.

Right now, Parker is the starter and Moore knows that and accepts his position - it's a team sport and everyone knows their role.

I trust the coaches on this one and believe that Willie is going to be back to form come playoff time. My only wish is that they would run the backfield with both Willie and Moore back there.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 04:44 PM
Dudes, all of you dudes...so far I don't see how Willie sucks with any of the stats I've posted in the 1st two games.

Can't we just agree together that, Willie and Moore make a great backfield together? That its awesome to have two guys that average over 3.5 yards per carry and that force the defense to "stack the box" to stop the Steelers run first which opens up our passing game?

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 04:46 PM
These are football facts.

2nd and 7 is better than 2nd and 10 every single time. Fact. Both of our Running backs are capable, and usually do get about 3 yards a carry on 1st down.

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 04:46 PM
Because I don't want to waste my time trying to refute something that I have no control over. I prefer to trust the coaches judgement not yours. Thanks, that is all. NEXT.


:coffee:

SteelCityKing
12-16-2008, 04:48 PM
These are football facts.

2nd and 7 is better than 2nd and 10 every single time. Fact. Both of our Running backs are capable, and usually do get about 3 yards a carry on 1st down.

THANK YOU!!!

(i love your posts! haha!)

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 04:49 PM
Dudes, all of you dudes...so far I don't see how Willie sucks with any of the stats I've posted in the 1st two games.

Can't we just agree together that, Willie and Moore make a great backfield together? That its awesome to have two guys that average over 3.5 yards per carry and that force the defense to "stack the box" to stop the Steelers run first which opens up our passing game?

You know you didn't refute the stats by showing Parker's best 2 games of the season BUT I personally don't think he should be cut or even benched but an EQUAL split carry situation would be better for the team, It's not an EQUAL spilt carry situation. Parker is still being treated like the lone star runningback with Moore coming in to give him a rest or for for 3rd down back situations.

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 04:54 PM
You know you didn't refute the stats by showing Parker's best 2 games of the season BUT I personally don't think he should be cut or even benched but an EQUAL split carry situation would be better for the team, It's not an EQUAL spilt carry situation. Parker is still being treated like the lone star runningback with Moore coming in to give him a rest or for for 3rd down back situations.

Write the front office cause the only other poster that cares what your saying is UFN. Maybe they will hire you, and then you can implement any changes you want. :thumbsup:

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 04:58 PM
Write the front office cause the only other poster that cares what your saying is UFN. Maybe they will hire you, and then you can implement any changes you want. :thumbsup:

Then why do you keep reading? No cheerleader threads open for you to go into and say, "WHOOOOOOO YEAAAAAAAHHHHH" ?

Let me see what I can do about that for you.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 05:00 PM
THANK YOU!!!

(i love your posts! haha!)

I'll be sure to go into the million threads that you start everyday from now on and say, "Who cares? What's the point? We're 11-3, this thread is pointless."

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 05:00 PM
Cause your like a bad car accident. It's human nature. I can't help it, I'm human.

:cheer::cheer::cheer:

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 05:01 PM
Cause your like a bad car accident. It's human nature. I can't help it, I'm human.

:cheer::cheer::cheer:

Just observe then, bumping the thread up with worthless posts isn't doing anyone any good now is it?

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 05:05 PM
Just waiting for your inevitable meltdown.

:cheer::cheer::cheer:

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 05:09 PM
Just waiting for your inevitable meltdown.

:cheer::cheer::cheer:

Is that why you sent me your sweet private message applogizing to me a few days ago? Just a ploy in the secret society of the Steelersfever forum to bait me into a meltdown huh?? LOL..pathetic, absolutely pathetic

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 05:12 PM
Is that why you sent me your sweet private message applogizing to me a few days ago? Just a ploy in the secret society of the Steelersfever forum to bait me into a meltdown huh?? LOL..pathetic, absolutely pathetic


Actually the night I blasted you I was a bit intoxicated, and really didn't give you the benefit of the doubt. Now that I have however, I wish I hadn't. The only thing you post about is the running game...All negative all the time with you. I am just tired of your act to be honest. I don't have to bait you. Your doing fine all by yourself.

:cheer::cheer::cheer:

MACH1
12-16-2008, 05:15 PM
:cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 05:23 PM
:cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:Actually the night I blasted you I was a bit intoxicated, and really didn't give you the benefit of the doubt. Now that I have however, I wish I hadn't. The only thing you post about is the running game...All negative all the time with you. I am just tired of your act to be honest. I don't have to bait you. Your doing fine all by yourself.

:cheer::cheer::cheer:

A drunken forum fight in which you felt guilty about the next day cause you didn't give the person the benefit of the doubt? That's actually very sad.

Tired of my act? I appologize, I'll try harder just for you from now on.

GOOOO STEELERS WHOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOO!
WILLIE PARKER IS THE BEST! WHOOOOOOO HOOOOOO!
BRUCE ARIAN"S IS A GENIOUS! WHOOOOOO HOOOOOO!

:cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 05:25 PM
:cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:



GOOOO STEELERS WHOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOO!
WILLIE PARKER IS THE BEST! WHOOOOOOO HOOOOOO!
BRUCE ARIAN"S IS A GENIOUS! WHOOOOOO HOOOOOO!

:cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:

Now that's more like it.:chuckle:

ShutDown24
12-16-2008, 05:48 PM
At Baltimore -

Parker: 14 carries, 47 yards, 3.4 average.

Moore: 7 carries, 16 yards, 2.3 average.

This discussion is pointless. Go with the hot hand. That's what coach Tomlin has been doing most of the year and what he will continue to do.

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 06:00 PM
At Baltimore -

Parker: 14 carries, 47 yards, 3.4 average.

Moore: 7 carries, 16 yards, 2.3 average.

This discussion is pointless. Go with the hot hand. That's what coach Tomlin has been doing most of the year and what he will continue to do.

You can't possibly mean the Steelers coaching staff knows what they are doing?
:wink02:

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 06:06 PM
You can't possibly mean the Steelers coaching staff knows what they are doing?
:wink02:

COACHING STAFF WHOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOO!

:cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 06:09 PM
COACHING STAFF WHOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOO!

:cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:

You see, all it took was a bit of effort. Now that's wasn't so hard now was it.:helmet:

cubanstogie
12-16-2008, 06:16 PM
You see, all it took was a bit of effort. Now that's wasn't so hard now was it.:helmet:

IF 11-3 record with the toughest schedule isn't enough to get people to see the "glass half full" then nothing will. If we win the SB I wonder if people will still call for the firing of Arians.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 06:18 PM
IF 11-3 record with the toughest schedule isn't enough to get people to see the "glass half full" then nothing will. If we win the SB I wonder if people will still call for the firing of Arians.

Why would they? After all this offense is what has got us to our 11-3 record and it will be what will win us the Superbowl.

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 06:18 PM
IF 11-3 record with the toughest schedule isn't enough to get people to see the "glass half full" then nothing will. If we win the SB I wonder if people will still call for the firing of Arians.

Probably. Maybe they should go root for the Lions or the Bungles. At least then they would have something legitimate to bitch about.

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-16-2008, 06:22 PM
These are football facts.

2nd and 7 is better than 2nd and 10 every single time. Fact. Both of our Running backs are capable, and usually do get about 3 yards a carry on 1st down.

With all due respect, this is the rub, You have your facts wrong.

Willie Parker is averaging 3.6 ypc on 1st down whereas Mewelde Moore is averaging 4.6 ypc on 1st down. Even with this OL, thats good for 14th in the NFL ahead of guys like Brian Westbrook and Michael Turner.

That means you are looking at 2nd and 6 or 2nd and 5 when Moore is playing and thus its no surprise that this leads to more 1st downs/points.

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/leaders.asp?year=2008&type=Rushing&range=NFL&rank=229

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-16-2008, 06:24 PM
IF 11-3 record with the toughest schedule isn't enough to get people to see the "glass half full" then nothing will. If we win the SB I wonder if people will still call for the firing of Arians. No one said that glass isnt half full. In fact, if you go back to the original post, youll see that the whole point is that the one missing piece is the running game and the running game seems to be successful when the backup plays.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 06:54 PM
With all due respect, this is the rub, You have your facts wrong.

Willie Parker is averaging 3.6 ypc on 1st down whereas Mewelde Moore is averaging 4.6 ypc on 1st down. Even with this OL, thats good for 14th in the NFL ahead of guys like Brian Westbrook and Michael Turner.

That means you are looking at 2nd and 6 or 2nd and 5 when Moore is playing and thus its no surprise that this leads to more 1st downs/points.

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/leaders.asp?year=2008&type=Rushing&range=NFL&rank=229

Really?

Steelers first Drive against the Ravens:
1st and 10 at PIT 7 (13:37) B.Roethlisberger scrambles left end ran ob at PIT 16 for 9 yards (J.Leonhard).
2nd and 1 at PIT 16 (13:02) W.Parker left tackle to PIT 18 for 2 yards.
PENALTY on PIT-B.Roethlisberger, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 16 - No Play.
2nd and 6 at PIT 11 (12:46) W.Parker right guard to PIT 16 for 5 yards (B.Scott).
3rd and 1 at PIT 16 (12:05) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to H.Ward to PIT 24 for 8 yards (F.Washington).
1st and 10 at PIT 24 (11:27) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to H.Ward to PIT 28 for 4 yards (F.Washington).
2nd and 6 at PIT 28 (11:01) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to N.Washington.
3rd and 6 at PIT 28 (10:58) (Shotgun) PENALTY on PIT-W.Colon, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 28 - No Play.
3rd and 11 at PIT 23 (10:58) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short left to H.Miller to PIT 29 for 6 yards (C.Ivy).
4th and 5 at PIT 29 (10:29) (Punt formation) M.Berger punts 28 yards to BLT 43, Center-J.Retkofsky, out of bounds.

Steelers 2nd Drive against the Ravens:
1st and 10 at PIT 4 (6:23) M.Moore left tackle to PIT 9 for 5 yards (T.Pryce).
2nd and 5 at PIT 9 (5:46) M.Moore up the middle to PIT 14 for 5 yards (B.Scott, E.Reed).
1st and 10 at PIT 14 (5:05) M.Moore up the middle to PIT 14 for no gain (T.Pryce, B.Scott).
2nd and 10 at PIT 14 (4:23) M.Moore right end to PIT 18 for 4 yards (F.Washington, B.Scott).
3rd and 6 at PIT 18 (3:37) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short middle to S.Holmes (J.Leonhard).
4th and 6 at PIT 18 (3:30) (Punt formation) M.Berger punts 46 yards to BLT 36, Center-J.Retkofsky. J.Leonhard to PIT 46 for 18 yards (P.Bailey).

Steelers 3rd Drive against the Ravens:
1st and 10 at PIT 33 (3:07) W.Parker left tackle to PIT 35 for 2 yards (H.Ngata).
2nd and 8 at PIT 35 (2:28) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep right to N.Washington (F.Washington).
3rd and 8 at PIT 35 (2:22) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to N.Washington to BLT 47 for 18 yards (F.Walker).
1st and 10 at BLT 47 (1:55) (No Huddle) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to H.Miller [T.Suggs].
Timeout #1 by PIT at 01:49.
2nd and 10 at BLT 47 (1:49) W.Parker left end to PIT 45 for -8 yards (T.Pryce).
PENALTY on BLT-T.Pryce, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at BLT 47 - No Play.
2nd and 5 at BLT 42 (1:25) W.Parker right tackle to BLT 41 for 1 yard (J.Johnson).
3rd and 4 at BLT 41 (:42) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger sacked at BLT 49 for -8 yards (R.Lewis).
4th and 12 at BLT 49 (:42) (Punt formation) M.Berger punts 38 yards to BLT 11, Center-J.Retkofsky. J.Leonhard to PIT 43 for 46 yards (M.Berger).

4th drive vs Ravens:
1st and 10 at PIT 20 (12:30) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to S.McHugh pushed ob at PIT 27 for 7 yards (J.Johnson).
2nd and 3 at PIT 27 (12:03) W.Parker right tackle to PIT 29 for 2 yards (J.Bannan, R.Lewis).
3rd and 1 at PIT 29 (11:24) G.Russell right tackle to PIT 30 for 1 yard (H.Ngata, R.Lewis).
Baltimore challenged the first down ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1.) 1-10-PIT 30 (10:50) W.Parker left end to PIT 34 for 4 yards (E.Reed).
2nd and 6 at PIT 34 (10:10) B.Roethlisberger scrambles right end ran ob at PIT 41 for 7 yards (R.Lewis).
1st and 10 at PIT 41 (9:36) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to H.Ward to BLT 38 for 21 yards (J.Leonhard).
1st and 10 at BLT 38 (8:55) W.Parker right guard to BLT 35 for 3 yards (R.Lewis, J.Johnson).
2nd and 7 at BLT 35 (8:16) W.Parker right guard to BLT 32 for 3 yards (R.Lewis).
PENALTY on PIT-D.Stapleton, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at BLT 32.
2nd and 14 at BLT 42 (7:49) B.Roethlisberger pass short left to N.Washington to BLT 33 for 9 yards (S.Rolle).
3rd and 5 at BLT 33 (7:02) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to H.Miller to BLT 16 for 17 yards (E.Reed).
Penalty on BLT-B.Scott, Defensive Offside, declined.
1st and 10 at BLT 16 (6:40) (No Huddle) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to W.Parker.
2nd and 10 at BLT 16 (6:35) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to W.Parker to BLT 12 for 4 yards (F.Washington).
3rd and 6 at BLT 12 (5:52) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to H.Ward (C.Ivy).
4th and 6 at BLT 12 (5:48) (Field Goal formation) Je.Reed 31 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Retkofsky, Holder-M.Berger. 3 3
Je.Reed kicks 72 yards from PIT 30 to BLT -2. Y.Figurs to BLT 23 for 25 yards (K.Fox).

1st Drive 2nd Half
1st and 10 at PIT 20 (15:00) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to H.Miller [T.Pryce].
2nd and 10 at PIT 20 (14:55) N.Washington left end to PIT 26 for 6 yards (E.Reed). End around play.
3rd and 4 at PIT 26 (14:12) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep right to N.Washington.
4th and 4 at PIT 26 (14:03) (Punt formation) M.Berger punts 49 yards to BLT 25, Center-J.Retkofsky. J.Leonhard to BLT 35 for 10 yards (A.Frazier).

2nd Drive 2nd Half:
1st and 10 at PIT 24 (11:24) W.Parker right end to PIT 31 for 7 yards (M.Douglas).
PENALTY on PIT-W.Colon, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 31.
1st and 13 at PIT 21 (11:04) W.Parker right tackle to PIT 21 for no gain (H.Ngata). #90 - Price (BAL) injured on play.
2nd and 13 at PIT 21 (10:30) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to W.Parker to PIT 26 for 5 yards (T.Suggs, H.Ngata).
3rd and 8 at PIT 26 (9:45) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 17 for -9 yards (E.Reed).
4th and 17 at PIT 17 (9:23) (Punt formation) M.Berger punts 51 yards to BLT 32, Center-J.Retkofsky. J.Leonhard to BLT 42 for 10 yards (L.Timmons).

3rd Drive 2nd Half
1st and 10 at PIT 24 (5:57) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep right to N.Washington (F.Washington).
2nd and 10 at PIT 24 (5:52) W.Parker left tackle to PIT 27 for 3 yards (B.Scott).
3rd and 7 at PIT 27 (5:09) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short left to S.Holmes to PIT 35 for 8 yards (S.Rolle).
1st and 10 at PIT 35 (4:30) W.Parker left tackle to PIT 42 for 7 yards (J.Leonhard).
2nd and 3 at PIT 42 (3:54) W.Parker right guard to PIT 39 for -3 yards (B.Scott).
3rd and 6 at PIT 39 (3:08) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to S.Holmes (F.Washington).
4th and 6 at PIT 39 (3:03) (Punt formation) M.Berger punts 40 yards to BLT 21, Center-J.Retkofsky. J.Leonhard to BLT 27 for 6 yards (A.Madison).

4th drive 2nd half:
1st and 10 at BLT 33 (1:00) B.Roethlisberger scrambles left end to BLT 27 for 6 yards (B.Scott).
2nd and 4 at BLT 27 (:15) M.Moore up the middle to BLT 24 for 3 yards (F.Washington, E.Reed).
3rd and 1 at BLT 24 (15:00) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger sacked at BLT 30 for -6 yards (T.Suggs). FUMBLES (T.Suggs), RECOVERED by BLT-B.McKinney at BLT 33. B.McKinney to BLT 37 for 4 yards (H.Miller). 3 9
PENALTY on BLT-H.Ngata, Personal Foul, 15 yards, enforced at BLT 37.

5th Drive 2nd half
1st and 10 at PIT 34 (13:18) W.Parker left tackle to PIT 44 for 10 yards (E.Reed).
1st and 10 at PIT 44 (12:35) B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to H.Ward to BLT 26 for 30 yards (J.Leonhard).
1st and 10 at BLT 26 (11:51) W.Parker up the middle to BLT 23 for 3 yards (J.Leonhard).
2nd and 7 at BLT 23 (11:12) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to W.Parker.
Timeout #1 by PIT at 11:04.
3rd and 7 at BLT 23 (11:04) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to H.Ward to BLT 15 for 8 yards (F.Walker).
1st and 10 at BLT 15 (10:21) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to S.McHugh.
2nd and 10 at BLT 15 (10:17) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to H.Miller to BLT 12 for 3 yards (J.Johnson, J.Leonhard).
3rd and 7 at BLT 12 (9:33) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to S.Holmes.
4th and 7 at BLT 12 (9:29) (Field Goal formation) Je.Reed 30 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Retkofsky, Holder-M.Berger. 6 9
Je.Reed kicks 59 yards from PIT 30 to BLT 11. Y.Figurs to BLT 25 for 14 yards (P.Bailey).

Exactly When did Willie Cost us the game because he is listed as the Starter?

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 06:56 PM
Your entire point is that Moore should be the starter right?

Where did Willie actually Lose His Job?

When did Moore really EARN the Job?

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 06:58 PM
I'll do this all day, The POINT is that Moore hasn't TAKEN the Job away from Willie because he isn't BETTER Than Willie.

Moore is really good, but so is Willie Parker.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 07:07 PM
I'll do this all day, The POINT is that Moore hasn't TAKEN the Job away from Willie because he isn't BETTER Than Willie.

Moore is really good, but so is Willie Parker.

Do what all day? Copy and paste drive charts? A fan is a fan and no stats will ever make a fan of individual players admit the player they are a fan of is "bad" or a "problem". Heck I have friends who are fans of the Giants who think Eli Manning is as good if not better than Roethlisberger and they just point to Eli being the last one to win a Superbowl despite every other stat showing that Roethlisberger is not just better but superior.

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-16-2008, 07:10 PM
Really?

Exactly When did Willie Cost us the game because he is listed as the Starter?

As good as the defense is, the offense still needs to score points. As the original post shows, the Steelers score disproportionately more points when Moore is in the lineup as opposed to Parker. Thats not an opinion, thats a fact over the past 5 games as they have split the carries somewhat.

If the Steelers come up 3 points short in the Super Bowl cause FWP helped with some 3 and outs and fewer points you wont have a problem with that?

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 07:10 PM
Do what all day? Copy and paste drive charts? A fan is a fan and no stats will ever make a fan of individual players admit the player they are a fan of is "bad" or a "problem". Heck I have friends who are fans of the Giants who think Eli Manning is as good if not better than Roethlisberger and they just point to Eli being the last one to win a Superbowl despite every other stat showing that Roethlisberger is not just better but superior.

Yes, copy and paste Drive charts, I got tired of actually typing them in my previous posts.

Moore is Not Better than Parker, show me the Drive, the Play, the Game that proves he is actually a better Starting Running back than Willie Parker.

You can't, because it doesn't exist.

What does exist is that when he took over after Willie got hurt, defenses stopped focussing on the Run First, hence Moore had a little more space to run in. But as the games went along and teams started to Key on Moore just as they had with Parker, and especially started to watch him as the "check down" it became obvious that he was a very good "filler" but not the man to carry the load.

Moore has not beaten out Willie Parker for the job. There is no signature Pay, signature game, or single moment this season where Moore has shown that he deserves the right to the Starting Job over Willie Parker.

beSteelmyheart
12-16-2008, 07:10 PM
Computer time is limited tonite so I didn't read the whole thread.
I like Willie & his contributions to the team but there are times when I wish they would use different combinations a little more often. I often find myself shouting things at the TV during a game, things that boil down to plays that have him running up the midd:chuckle:le among other things but I've never played football & it's not my call, so what do I know? I deal with each frustrating game as it comes & breathe a sigh of relief when they get another W...What else can we do, it's not up to us.

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-16-2008, 07:12 PM
I'll do this all day, The POINT is that Moore hasn't TAKEN the Job away from Willie because he isn't BETTER Than Willie.

Moore is really good, but so is Willie Parker. Thats the point, Moore has taken the role away from FWP from every possible angle.

You are entitled to your opinion that FWP>MM, and I think most people share your opinion, but every available fact says otherwise.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 07:14 PM
As good as the defense is, the offense still needs to score points. As the original post shows, the Steelers score disproportionately more points when Moore is in the lineup as opposed to Parker. Thats not an opinion, thats a fact over the past 5 games as they have split the carries somewhat.

If the Steelers come up 3 points short in the Super Bowl cause FWP helped with some 3 and outs and fewer points you wont have a problem with that?

over the last 5 games.

Chargers, Willie had 115 Rushing
Cincy Moore had 56
Patriots Willie had 87
Cowboys Willie had 25
Ravens Willie had 47

Wow, we scored more points with Willie in the lineup...against the Bengals.

Yeah, that's earned him the starting job.

I'm not worried about being 3 points short in the Superbowl. I'm worried about Beating the Titans this weekend.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 07:15 PM
As good as the defense is, the offense still needs to score points. As the original post shows, the Steelers score disproportionately more points when Moore is in the lineup as opposed to Parker. Thats not an opinion, thats a fact over the past 5 games as they have split the carries somewhat.

If the Steelers come up 3 points short in the Super Bowl cause FWP helped with some 3 and outs and fewer points you wont have a problem with that?

No he won't and neither will a lot of members, they'll say the o-line was solely responsible. Forget about it man. They'll just post non-sense to argue your cold hard factual stats. And if you try to start another thread to argue with people who actually don't have a problem with you talking about it, they'll just hijack your thread and call you an idiot for starting it, and they won't stop trolling on the thread until you say something to get yourself banned or until the moderator comes in to lock the thread up. You're wasting your time, here try this, they love this:

GO STEELERS WOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!

:cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 07:16 PM
Thats the point, Moore has taken the role away from FWP from every possible angle.

You are entitled to your opinion that FWP>MM, and I think most people share your opinion, but every available fact says otherwise.

I call BS on your "taken the role away" argument.

Show me the Game the Drive, the Play, that actually got him to turn heads and say "damn" he should be the starter?

Where is his play so "critical" that we couldn't just have Willie catching the ball on 3rd down instead of being "spelled" all the time.

xfl2001fan
12-16-2008, 07:16 PM
Computer time is limited tonite so I didn't read the whole thread.
I like Willie & his contributions to the team but there are times when I wish they would use different combinations a little more often. I often find myself shouting things at the TV during a game, things that boil down to plays that have him running up the midd:chuckle:le among other things but I've never played football & it's not my call, so what do I know? I deal with each frustrating game as it comes & breathe a sigh of relief when they get another W...What else can we do, it's not up to us.

To put things simply, running up the Middle does keep defenses honest...even when they sniff the play out. If FWP was in the game and all they did were outside runs, the DE/OLBs would just line up a little wider on every play with the MLB/CB watching him to see which direction he's running. He really would (in the long run) have more plays for losses than gains.

As for the FWP/MeMo argument...I believe that MeMo benifits from "backup" syndrome. Even knowing what he brings to the table, teams are less likely to key in on MeMo than they are on FWP. They can "relax" a little bit more.

Better play selection will likely help out with both backs production.

jstethem12
12-16-2008, 07:19 PM
Problem is, this same topic has been argued to death already

If you want to continue beating the dead horse fine, I'm not interfering anymore

then get out of here, i agree i have always been a willie parker fan, after hurting his leg, he hits the hole like a profanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofa nityfilterprofanityfilter, try's to dance too much like his first year as a starter, last year he hit the hole hard and then made his cuts, it would be interesting to see how many rushes for losses he has, yeah he will break one for 20 yards every once in a while but he usually has 4 or 5 losses of 3 or 4 yards at a time also, seems to me like moore hits the hole hard and gets the yardage, if willie dont wanna play hard BENCH HIM.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 07:19 PM
Yes, copy and paste Drive charts, I got tired of actually typing them in my previous posts.

Moore is Not Better than Parker, show me the Drive, the Play, the Game that proves he is actually a better Starting Running back than Willie Parker.

You can't, because it doesn't exist.

Prove it how? The way you can prove that water freezes at 32F? Of course there is no such evidence. But the stats as a whole, without them being skewed in any manner, shows Moore as the better option AT THIS POINT IN TIME. If you balance the stats a little by only showing games between the 2 where they both have 10 or more carries (which isn't skewing, it's fair), it shows that Moore is MUCH better at this point in time.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 07:20 PM
Was it the Colts game when he had a 2.2 average, or maybe the Baltimore games where he averaged 1.6 in the first game and 2.3 in the 2nd.

against New England, he had a Fantastic Game, that's awesome, and I cheered and screamed everytime he made a play.

However at no point this season have I seen anything out of Moore that shows he's Better as the Starter over Willie Parker.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 07:24 PM
At this point in time...we just played the Ravens, Moore got 2.3 a carry, Willie got 3.4.

At THIS point in time how is Moore Much Better than Willie?

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 07:24 PM
Was it the Colts game when he had a 2.2 average, or maybe the Baltimore games where he averaged 1.6 in the first game and 2.3 in the 2nd.

against New England, he had a Fantastic Game, that's awesome, and I cheered and screamed everytime he made a play.

However at no point this season have I seen anything out of Moore that shows he's Better as the Starter over Willie Parker.

Stop picking and choosing Moore's worst games, show what the stats are as a whole. If I wanted to take away Parkers first 2 games, he would be one of the worst running backs in the league statistically.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 07:26 PM
At this point in time...we just played the Ravens, Moore got 2.3 a carry, Willie got 3.4.

At THIS point in time how is Moore Much Better than Willie?

Give him at least 10 carries to get going, how can you judge a running back who had 7 carries in the entire game, one of the carries for a 4 yard loss because the Pittsburgh coaches wanted to run the clock out.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 07:29 PM
Stop picking and choosing Moore's worst games, show what the stats are as a whole. If I wanted to take away Parkers first 2 games, he would be one of the worst running backs in the league statistically.

Here's the New England Game Box Score:

W. Parker 16 87 5.4 0 31
M. Moore 12 67 5.6 0 20


Parker had 20 more yards on 4more carries.

Yet that game was also Moore's best "statistical" game for average per carry.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 07:31 PM
Judge that Game...Its right there.

Yes, Moore had a better "per carry average against the Patriots, But Willie was slightly Better wasn't he.

And that's the point. Moore hasn't TAKEN the job away.

They are great together, are playing well off of one another, however Moore is Not Better than Willie Parker. Parker is the Best Running back on our Roster right now.

jstethem12
12-16-2008, 07:31 PM
thats 4 more carries

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 07:32 PM
thats 4 more carries

lol

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 07:34 PM
lol

Already fixed it

jstethem12
12-16-2008, 07:34 PM
well the guys arguing and cant do the math

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 07:35 PM
The OP didn't cherry pick stats, he showed all the stats for the last 5 games. If I cherry picked stats between Parker and Moore, I could make Parker look like an absolute bum compared to Moore. That's not what the OP did, he used all the stats for the last 5 games. You are picking and choosing what stats help your arguement most.

Vincent
12-16-2008, 07:36 PM
Heath Miller could've rushed for 47 yards on 14 carries.

He had a better rushing average than Moore did (7 for 16 yards).

The problem here is twofold.

1st, we lack the 310 lb halfback we enjoyed the previous 10 years. For those who missed it, Jerome Bettis carried the offense on his back for a decade. And during that decade, he ALWAYS had a sturdy fullback to at least attempt to clear a path through the "1st level". I have scoured the roster and I don't see a 310 lb halfback. And upon further review, I don't see anybody making their living as a "fullback".

We were lulled into a false sense of well being in the penumbral years between JB's retirement and FWP's emergence because we had a "fullback" and all that implies.

And this is the 2nd part of the problem. Once the current administration held sway and did away with such "antiquities" as "fullbacks", we have struggled on offense. FWP is a great back. MM is highly serviceable. GR has tremendous potential...

WITH A FULLBACK

Yes, we will probably "ride FWP until his wheels fall off". What a waste of great talent. And then we'll grind through MM. Then GR. Or, alternatively someone in the front office will get a clue and get a real OC. And we'll get to keep our franchise QB a bit longer too. :banging:

jstethem12
12-16-2008, 07:36 PM
i understand Moore is not a better running back than parker, BUT since willie got hurt hes not hitting the hole hard and gets tackled alot for a loss alot more than moore does.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 07:37 PM
well the guys arguing and cant do the math

See that's what the Edit Button is for.

You can "Fix" errors.

As I did, rather quickly I might add.

Oh, and do your math when you take out the 1 carry 6 yard per average game Moore had against the Eagles.

Moore had two very good games this year, Jags, 17 carries 99 yards

Bengals, 20 carries 120 yards (Should we even count stats against the Bengals?)

New England, Both he and Willie took it to the Patriots and I argue Moore couldn't have done it without Willie also Playing and Moore playing Back Up.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 07:39 PM
The OP didn't cherry pick stats, he showed all the stats for the last 5 games. If I cherry picked stats between Parker and Moore, I could make Parker look like an absolute bum compared to Moore. That's not what the OP did, he used all the stats for the last 5 games. You are picking and choosing what stats help your arguement most.

Just take the Last One Game, the Ravens, and then Show me what went on exactly. Why only go "5" games back, why not compare the Entire Body of Work?

Most likely, because 5 games makes the Numbers come out the way he wants.

Willie is the Starter and Moore is a great Back up player to have when Willie is hurt and the other team isn't focussing on stopping the Run First.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 07:40 PM
The problem here is twofold.

1st, we lack the 310 lb halfback we enjoyed the previous 10 years. For those who missed it, Jerome Bettis carried the offense on his back for a decade. And during that decade, he ALWAYS had a sturdy fullback to at least attempt to clear a path through the "1st level". I have scoured the roster and I don't see a 310 lb halfback. And upon further review, I don't see anybody making their living as a "fullback".

We were lulled into a false sense of well being in the penumbral years between JB's retirement and FWP's emergence because we had a "fullback" and all that implies.

And this is the 2nd part of the problem. Once the current administration held sway and did away with such "antiquities" as "fullbacks", we have struggled on offense. FWP is a great back. MM is highly serviceable. GR has tremendous potential...

WITH A FULLBACK

Yes, we will probably "ride FWP until his wheels fall off". What a waste of great talent. And then we'll grind through MM. Then GR. Or, alternatively someone in the front office will get a clue and get a real OC. And we'll get to keep our franchise QB a bit longer too. :banging:

I couldn't really argue against this.

i understand Moore is not a better running back than parker, BUT since willie got hurt hes not hitting the hole hard and gets tackled alot for a loss alot more than moore does.

But this right here is the point that a lot of people are making, In the greater scheme of things, as of right now, Moore is not better than Parker, what the future holds for the two remains to be seen. BUT as of right now, this season, since after the second game, something is wrong with Parker and Moore has been better, that's all there is to it.

lilyoder6
12-16-2008, 07:41 PM
i think that making willie a co-captain got some fire under him... he had a pretty good game against the number 2 run def...

jstethem12
12-16-2008, 07:42 PM
i would like to have Adrian Peterson would trade willie parker for peterson any day of the week.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 07:42 PM
Willie Killed San Diego

25 Carries 115 yards

Houston 25 Carries 138 Yards

Browns (before the world realized they sucked) 28 Carries 105 yards

Skins 21 carries only 70 yards, bad game Willie.

When Willie gets the ball 20 or more times, it usually means Great Numbers and a Win for the Steelers.

Moore has 2 20 carry games

Colts 24 Carries, 57 yards
Bengals 20 for 120
Giants he had 19 carries for 84 yards

10 Carries?

I'd rather see what my backs do when they are carrying the load and getting 20 or more carries a game.

ShutDown24
12-16-2008, 07:43 PM
The OP didn't cherry pick stats, he showed all the stats for the last 5 games. If I cherry picked stats between Parker and Moore, I could make Parker look like an absolute bum compared to Moore. That's not what the OP did, he used all the stats for the last 5 games. You are picking and choosing what stats help your arguement most.

No one is "cherry" picking stats...

Moore played better against Dallas, Parker played better against Baltimore... It has gone back and forth all year... Play the hot hand - that's what the coaching staff has done... This debate is no debate. Both players (And Russell) are getting some time which is exactly what should be happening.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 07:43 PM
Just take the Last One Game, the Ravens, and then Show me what went on exactly. Why only go "5" games back, why not compare the Entire Body of Work?

Most likely, because 5 games makes the Numbers come out the way he wants.

Willie is the Starter and Moore is a great Back up player to have when Willie is hurt and the other team isn't focussing on stopping the Run First.

Okay, examine the entire body of work then Dino. Who's been better? Despite it not being fair cause counting games where Moore didn't even have 10 carries is a bad example. That's like the QB who has a 120 QB rating cause he only played 1 game. But even despite those "less than 10 carrie" games that Moore had, even when included, he has been better than Parker. Go look at the numbers yourself.

jstethem12
12-16-2008, 07:43 PM
lol

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 07:44 PM
Now if you want to argue that the Play Calling is Suspect when its 3rd and 2nd and we are in Shotgun every freaking time, or that we aren't running the ball enough in general, then I'm cool with it.

But you posted that Willie should be on the Bench...and nothing, not the per average per game over just the last 5 or the argument that Willie is "cutting" too early and not hitting the hole has Proven that point.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 07:45 PM
Okay, examine the entire body of work then Dino. Who's been better? Despite it not being fair cause counting games where Moore didn't even have 10 carries is a bad example. That's like the QB who has a 120 QB rating cause he only played 1 game. But even despite those "less than 10 carrie" games that Moore had, even when included, he has been better than Parker. Go look at the numbers yourself.

I have, when they are asked to Carry the Load, with lots of carries, near 20 or more, Willie does better.

jstethem12
12-16-2008, 07:46 PM
i dont like bruce arians lets be honest our offense is terrible, if we didnt have the BEST defense in football i mean even if we had the 2nd best defense we probably wouldnt make the playoffs.

tony hipchest
12-16-2008, 07:48 PM
You're wasting your time, here try this, they love this:

GO STEELERS WOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!

:cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:

"they"???

y'know, the great thing is, there are plenty of boards out their where everyone would agree and love all teh diatribe and drivel. like a bengals board for instantce.

they love posts such as these. :rolleyes:

heres something to ponder....

the last 2 years, willie and alan fanaca were voted to the pro bowl. this year no steelers rb or ol made it, and both faneca and thomas jones did for the jets.

you and UFN would be instant hits on a jets fanboard, convincing them that their owner and coaches are so much better than the rooneys and tomlin! :applaudit:

faneca, jerome, kreider, hartings, tuman, breuner, kordell, maddox, grimm, cowher, are all gone.

its time to accept it, get over it, and move on.

:yawn:

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 07:49 PM
Now if you want to argue that the Play Calling is Suspect when its 3rd and 2nd and we are in Shotgun every freaking time, or that we aren't running the ball enough in general, then I'm cool with it.

But you posted that Willie should be on the Bench...and nothing, not the per average per game over just the last 5 or the argument that Willie is "cutting" too early and not hitting the hole has Proven that point.

Go look at the entire body of work for the 2 of them this year, who has more TD's? Who has a better average per carries? Who has more receptions? Who has more receiving yards?

jstethem12
12-16-2008, 07:51 PM
willie parker cant catch a cold, seen him miss too many balls in the flat, i argued for years why they didnt throw it to him in the flats because when willie gets in the open hes hard to beat but i see why he catches like a lineman.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 07:51 PM
Okay, examine the entire body of work then Dino. Who's been better? Despite it not being fair cause counting games where Moore didn't even have 10 carries is a bad example. That's like the QB who has a 120 QB rating cause he only played 1 game. But even despite those "less than 10 carrie" games that Moore had, even when included, he has been better than Parker. Go look at the numbers yourself.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe Moore can't carry the load, and can't get 20 or more carries a game cause he wears down.

He isn't "made" for that role, its not what he's ever done.

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-16-2008, 07:52 PM
Now if you want to argue that the Play Calling is Suspect when its 3rd and 2nd and we are in Shotgun every freaking time, or that we aren't running the ball enough in general, then I'm cool with it.

But you posted that Willie should be on the Bench...and nothing, not the per average per game over just the last 5 or the argument that Willie is "cutting" too early and not hitting the hole has Proven that point. Hold up.

I am saying that Moore has out produced Parker in every way/shape/form. Runs for more, catches for far more and the offense as a whole scores far more when Moore plays rather than Parker.

The preceeding statement is not an opinion. Its a clear fact any way you dice it and it has been consistent now not only over the course of the season (where there are different circumstances in different games) but over the past 5 games when both Moore and Parker are splitting carries, getting to play with the same gameplans vs the same defenses.

If you think that FWP is simply waiting to bust out and do something great or that the knee/shoulder is affecting FWP or something else...thats great. But you are going to have to accept the reality that FWP has not been the most productive RB on the roster in 2008.

And the question remains, at what point does FWP become more important than winning a Super Bowl, becase the Steelers are leaving yards/points on the field by sticking with Parker. Again, not an opinion...a fact.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 07:53 PM
Go look at the entire body of work for the 2 of them this year, who has more TD's? Who has a better average per carries? Who has more receptions? Who has more receiving yards?

How about entire Career since they Both started in 2004

Moore
397 Carries 1822 yards Longest TD 33 yards

Parker
1113 Carries 4842 yards Longest TD 80 yards

Body Of Work

augustashark
12-16-2008, 07:54 PM
http://musicalstewdaily.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/broken-record.jpg


http://hypnosisproductreviews.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/mr_know-it-all.jpg This one was for you NYC.:applaudit:

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 07:55 PM
Moore isn't the kind of guy that carries the load. His ROLE is to be the kid off the bench. That's what he does, that's what he's good at. If you start putting him in to start ever game from here on out, I'd argue that would be the worst mistake possible.

augustashark
12-16-2008, 07:57 PM
Moore isn't the kind of guy that carries the load. His ROLE is to be the kid off the bench. That's what he does, that's what he's good at. If you start putting him in to start ever game from here on out, I'd argue that would be the worst mistake possible.

There was a reason he was a backup/3rd down back in MIN. Point set match.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 07:58 PM
"they"???

y'know, the great thing is, there are plenty of boards out their where everyone would agree and love all teh diatribe and drivel. like a bengals board for instantce.

they love posts such as these. :rolleyes:

heres something to ponder....

the last 2 years, willie and alan fanaca were voted to the pro bowl. this year no steelers rb or ol made it, and both faneca and thomas jones did for the jets.

you and UFN would be instant hits on a jets fanboard, convincing them that their owner and coaches are so much better than the rooneys and tomlin! :applaudit:

faneca, jerome, kreider, hartings, tuman, breuner, kordell, maddox, grimm, cowher, are all gone.

its time to accept it, get over it, and move on.

:yawn:

When the person being talked about isn't sitting in your avatar, come back with an objective and unbiased arguement. Moore doesn't have Faneca this year also, it's not affecting him as much, ponder that.

tony hipchest
12-16-2008, 07:58 PM
willie parker cant catch a cold, seen him miss too many balls in the flat, i argued for years why they didnt throw it to him in the flats because when willie gets in the open hes hard to beat but i see why he catches like a lineman.probably explains why hes not a wr, or ever been compared to marshall faulk.

super fast guys like willie and ike have a problem in that their bodies work a little faster than their concentration.

catching and running isnt their specialty, especially when they wanna run first.

not everyone can be d. sanders or b. sanders, yet thats what the finicky steelerfans expect.

jstethem12
12-16-2008, 08:01 PM
your right but amn he would be dangerous if he could catch, look what moore does when he catches the ball in the flats, ward puts defenders on their arses and moore gets 20 yards willie would be dangerous.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 08:03 PM
I expect every player to play his Role to get us wins and get us points.

Including WRs not dropping passes. OL not holding or missing blocks or jumping early. Hines not getting False Starts. Ben not taking Delay of games.

That's what I expect. And I expect Willie to be the Starter, for Moore to come in and spell him on some drives and some 3rd downs and perform.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 08:03 PM
http://musicalstewdaily.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/broken-record.jpg


http://hypnosisproductreviews.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/mr_know-it-all.jpg This one was for you NYC.:applaudit:

Cause you couldn't have a reasonable arguement without twisting my words and not reading my posts and just going into tirades about how Willie Parker is the greatest, that makes me a mr. know it all? Learn objectivity and unbiasedness, it will do you good in life.

jstethem12
12-16-2008, 08:04 PM
Ben is the man but he makes ALOT of mistakes, really hurts us good thing we have a good D

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 08:04 PM
There was a reason he was a backup/3rd down back in MIN. Point set match.

What was the reason Parker wasn't even on an NFL team?

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 08:05 PM
Cause you couldn't have a reasonable arguement without twisting my words and not reading my posts and just going into tirades about how Willie Parker is the greatest, that makes me a mr. know it all? Learn objectivity and unbiasedness, it will do you good in life.

Let it be known I didn't say Willlie was the Greatest or not use reason or objectivity.

I have a super man crush on Steven Jackson, and as for the guy that said he'd take Peterson of the Vikings over Willie Parker...um...there are like 28 teams at least that would trade their starter for Peterson.

My entire premise is that Willie is better than Moore as the Starter.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 08:06 PM
What was the reason Parker wasn't even on an NFL team?

Horrible Head Coach of the North Carolina team he played on.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 08:07 PM
Let it be known I didn't say Willlie was the Greatest or not use reason or objectivity.

I have a super man crush on Steven Jackson, and as for the guy that said he'd take Peterson of the Vikings over Willie Parker...um...there are like 28 teams at least that would trade their starter for Peterson.

My entire premise is that Willie is better than Moore as the Starter.

That post wasn't to you Dino.

Your premise can and will never be proven nor will it be fact until we see Moore as the starter, and that it what UFN and I are saying. These next 2 games aren't that meaningful in my opinion. Let Moore start, see what he does. I know it won't happen. But that is all the entire arguement is, let Moore start a few games and see if he can do better. If he couldn't? I would be the first to say, put Parker back in.

tony hipchest
12-16-2008, 08:09 PM
When the person being talked about isn't sitting in your avatar, come back with an objective and unbiased arguement. Moore doesn't have Faneca this year also, it's not affecting him as much, ponder that.

you dont know me, Mr. November.

an objective and unbiassed argument is stating that you would probably fare better on a bengals or jets board.

while you ponder joining them to wave your pop-poms for alan faneca and cedric benson, you also might wanna take a look at my past posts and see some of my views on mewelde moore.

until then, you're barking up the wrong tree. :poop:

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-16-2008, 08:11 PM
Horrible Head Coach of the North Carolina team he played on.

:applaudit:

jstethem12
12-16-2008, 08:11 PM
cant we all just get along

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 08:12 PM
you dont know me, Mr. November.

an objective and unbiassed argument is stating that you would probably fare better on a bengals or jets board.

while you ponder joining them to wave your pop-poms for alan faneca and cedric benson, you also might wanna take a look at my past posts and see some of my views on mewelde moore.

until then, you're barking up the wrong tree. :poop:

I have no idea what "faring better on a Bengals or Jets board" even means. I don't understand what waving pom-poms for alan faneca and cedric benson means. And I wouldn't dream of looking through 20,000 posts to see what you think of Moore, whatever you think, you can sum it up and post it on this thread and I'll be happy to read it.

addition: I also have no idea what Mr. November means.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 08:12 PM
That post wasn't to you Dino.

That's cool

And I do get that Willie isn't the greatest back in the league. I just don't think that Moore is better and deserves the starting role over Willie.

Moore is what he is, a great back up. Just like Batch, just like Hoke, just like Timmons and Gay.

They are all important role players.

jstethem12
12-16-2008, 08:13 PM
Why did we go away from having a fullback, dumbest thing ever, really hope that Tomlin is not that dumb. We need krieder back he was the man.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 08:16 PM
That's cool

And I do get that Willie isn't the greatest back in the league. I just don't think that Moore is better and deserves the starting role over Willie.

Moore is what he is, a great back up. Just like Batch, just like Hoke, just like Timmons and Gay.

They are all important role players.

And I say that backups can end up being great just like Willie Parker. And I will never say that Parker is a better starter than Moore because I never saw Moore be a starter.

devilsdancefloor
12-16-2008, 08:19 PM
Why did we go away from having a fullback, dumbest thing ever, really hope that Tomlin is not that dumb. We need krieder back he was the man.

i would like to see a full back, but there is a reason the steelers let him go and well a few weeks back i think we found out ... the rams cut him:noidea:

augustashark
12-16-2008, 08:20 PM
And I say that backups can end up being great just like Willie Parker. And I will never say that Parker is a better starter than Moore because I never saw Moore be a starter.

And don't you think there is a reason for that???????? Three blind mice, three blind mice, see how they run..............LOL

Avoid LLoyd1975
12-16-2008, 08:21 PM
Not up until now have I been on the Moore bandwagon. I think that Willie is having a struggle this season,every good running back has a down season, hell look at Mr Everything L. Tomlinson this season. I think there are many variables that have come into play, some that we as fans may not even see. At this point I think Moore should have a more increased role and Parker should be called upon strictly on plays that revolve around the strengths that he has.

jstethem12
12-16-2008, 08:21 PM
he was good for us for many years, very dependable, i understand he is getting older but he performed very well, heck give russell a chance at fullback or Davenport he was pretty solid for us in 3rd down situations.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 08:23 PM
Moore Started 4 games this year as Willie was injured.

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 08:25 PM
And I say that backups can end up being great just like Willie Parker. And I will never say that Parker is a better starter than Moore because I never saw Moore be a starter.

And I don't think you will. Moore is a back-up plain and simple. He is a great TEAM player and knows his role on this team. If the coaching staff thought that he was starter material don't you think we would have seen that indication from them? Myself I choose to enjoy watching the Steelers do what no one thought they could do this year. It's a shame when you guys taint such a great season so far with useless bantor. Why not just sit back drink a beer and enjoy this great season?

Avoid LLoyd1975
12-16-2008, 08:26 PM
he was good for us for many years, very dependable, i understand he is getting older but he performed very well, heck give russell a chance at fullback or Davenport he was pretty solid for us in 3rd down situations.

FYI, Davenport got signed by the Colts.

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 08:28 PM
he was good for us for many years, very dependable, i understand he is getting older but he performed very well, heck give russell a chance at fullback or Davenport he was pretty solid for us in 3rd down situations.


Davenport plays with the Colts now, and I don't think Russell is big enough to be a fullback.

jstethem12
12-16-2008, 08:30 PM
anything is better than nothing, our running game is struggling hardcore.

tony hipchest
12-16-2008, 08:31 PM
I have no idea what "faring better on a Bengals or Jets board" even means. I don't understand what waving pom-poms for alan faneca and cedric benson means. And I wouldn't dream of looking through 20,000 posts to see what you think of Moore, whatever you think, you can sum it up and post it on this thread and I'll be happy to read it.

addition: I also have no idea what Mr. November means."faneca" and "benson" refer to the constant bemoaning of our o-line, and how the grass is always greener on the other side, when it comes to any other back instead of willie.

"jets and bengals" refers to youre stupid slamming of "they" on this board (which pretty much refers to an overwhelming majority of steelerfans) with your silly ...:cheer:...icons.

it is true that such attitude will be more readilly accepted elsewhere.

if you dont have time to sift through 20 K posts, you may not have enough background to be telling someone to remove their avitar in order to not be biased or unobjective. :busted:

i followed m. moore since his rookie year. i saw most of his starts as a rookie and 2nd year fill in guy for the vikings and posted how he was a big game player and a perfect replacement for willie parker in case of injury. he is almost a clone.

m. moore is a poor mans m. westbrook (which is saying alot). he has his own injury history which has prevented him from being considered durable enough to be a full time starter.

and if youve watched the entirety of his and willies careers, at their best, it is evident willie can be a top 10 starting back in this league. moore would be top 15 at best.

moores best asset is keeping the defense off guard as to whether a pass or run is coming.

Originally Posted by NYC SteelersFan
And I say that backups can end up being great just like Willie Parker. And I will never say that Parker is a better starter than Moore because I never saw Moore be a starter.


and again... i have.

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 08:32 PM
anything is better than nothing, our running game is struggling hardcore.


We need a more consistent play along the line not new running backs. I completely agree with you however that a true fullback and more I-formations would help.

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-16-2008, 08:35 PM
We need a more consistent line not new running backs. I completely agree with you however that a true fullback and more I-formations would help. Sorry, but this is not true. This is how you wish it was, but it is not how it is.

Moore is getting it done behind the same OL, you dont want to admit that though.

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 08:45 PM
Sorry, but this is not true. This is how you wish it was, but it is not how it is.

Moore is getting it done behind the same OL, you dont want to admit that though.

That's funny cause all the stats I have seen up to this point suggest that they are pretty damn close to the same. That sir is what you don't want to admit. Find a team that has legitimate problems winning and stop wasting your time here. Your shtick is old already.

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-16-2008, 08:47 PM
That's funny cause all the stats I have seen up to this point suggest that they are pretty damn close to the same. That sir is what you don't want to admit. Find a team that has legitimate problems winning and stop wasting your time here. Your shtick is old already.

What stats are you looking at? Because they say nothing of the sort. You can only see what you want to see.

I guess my schtick does get old if I keep telling you that water is wet and you keep telling me its not.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 08:55 PM
And don't you think there is a reason for that???????? Three blind mice, three blind mice, see how they run..............LOL

Entertaining yourself with hypocritical remarks? Someone said the same thing about Parker before he was finally given his chance

augustashark
12-16-2008, 08:59 PM
The biggest problem with this thread is that the people who defend willie will also admit that moore is a great addition to the team and are very happy with his productivity. OTOH the people that support moore will not return the favor to willie. So be it.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 09:01 PM
The biggest problem with this thread is that the people who defend willie will also admit that moore is a great addition to the team and are very happy with his productivity. OTOH the people that support moore will not return the favor to willie. So be it.

They just want to see what happens with roles reversed. I have never said Parker should be cut or not play.

augustashark
12-16-2008, 09:03 PM
Entertaining yourself with hypocritical remarks? Someone said the same thing about Parker before he was finally given his chance

Willie was given his chance in his 2nd year and he took the bull by the horns and shined! Moore has had his chances, while he has been productive and has given the team all he has he is still not a RB on the same level as willie.

augustashark
12-16-2008, 09:04 PM
They just want to see what happens with roles reversed. I have never said Parker should be cut or not play.

Sir, you most certianly have said to sit willie. Not my words, but yours.

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 09:04 PM
The biggest problem with this thread is that the people who defend willie will also admit that moore is a great addition to the team and are very happy with his productivity. OTOH the people that support moore will not return the favor to willie. So be it.

Very well put. The fact remains that Moore in my opinion has been a great addition and with out him playing his ROLE we wouldn't be where we are. Just like if Hoke hadn't played his ROLE. Or Townsend playing his ROLE. Or Leftwich playing his ROLE. Or Stapleton playing his ROLE. Or Washington playing his ROLE. I think you get my drift. The point is, it takes a collective TEAM effort. Damn these guys are just to damn stubborn to realize this team is great and it takes everyone to be great.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 09:06 PM
"faneca" and "benson" refer to the constant bemoaning of our o-line, and how the grass is always greener on the other side, when it comes to any other back instead of willie.

"jets and bengals" refers to youre stupid slamming of "they" on this board (which pretty much refers to an overwhelming majority of steelerfans) with your silly ...:cheer:...icons.

it is true that such attitude will be more readilly accepted elsewhere.

if you dont have time to sift through 20 K posts, you may not have enough background to be telling someone to remove their avitar in order to not be biased or unobjective. :busted:

i followed m. moore since his rookie year. i saw most of his starts as a rookie and 2nd year fill in guy for the vikings and posted how he was a big game player and a perfect replacement for willie parker in case of injury. he is almost a clone.

m. moore is a poor mans m. westbrook (which is saying alot). he has his own injury history which has prevented him from being considered durable enough to be a full time starter.

and if youve watched the entirety of his and willies careers, at their best, it is evident willie can be a top 10 starting back in this league. moore would be top 15 at best.

moores best asset is keeping the defense off guard as to whether a pass or run is coming.



and again... i have.


Right now the grass is greener cause somethign is wrong with Parker.

My "they" referred to the 2 posters who were calling the OP stupid and a troll for starting the thread. If you read from the beginning of the thread, you will see how the "silly" cheer icons started. And if you had read the entire thread you would've seen that they were started by someone else. Don't point fingers without knowing the entire story.

If you like Moore, wonderful. Im sorry for saying your biased or subjective. But you saw Moore start on the Vikings. I want to see what he does starting on the Steelers. He could be the same, better or worse. You or I would never know until it happened, which it won't.

tony hipchest
12-16-2008, 09:06 PM
What stats are you looking at? Because they say nothing of the sort. You can only see what you want to see.

I guess my schtick does get old if I keep telling you that water is wet and you keep telling me its not.both willie and ben have been playing injured this season, yet they still gut it out. where des that fit into your stats and truths?

show me the stats of how moore does with a ripped up knee and busted shoulder.

i guess moore is better than mendenhall too? :thumbsup:

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 09:07 PM
Sir, you most certianly have said to sit willie. Not my words, but yours.

IF he is injured. If he is not, then give Moore the majority of the carries and let Parker be the "backup" to see what happens.

HometownGal
12-16-2008, 09:10 PM
It continues to just freakin' amaze me how some so-called Steelers fans are so damned quick to throw a player, who has given as much to this team as Willie Parker has, under the bus when he doesn't come right back after his injury and rush for a gazillion yards per game. :doh::doh::doh:

Don't you people have anything better to do than complain and B & M????? Holy Mother of God - it's beyond the point of ridiculous.

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 09:10 PM
Right now the grass is greener cause somethign is wrong with Parker.

My "they" referred to the 2 posters who were calling the OP stupid and a troll for starting the thread. If you read from the beginning of the thread, you will see how the "silly" cheer icons started. And if you had read the entire thread you would've seen that they were started by someone else. Don't point fingers without knowing the entire story.

If you like Moore, wonderful. Im sorry for saying your biased or subjective. But you saw Moore start on the Vikings. I want to see what he does starting on the Steelers. He could be the same, better or worse. You or I would never know until it happened, which it won't.

He started 4 games man. How many times do we have to tell you that? Read the thread. And I will call you or anyone else a troll when all they post about is negative shit to get people in an uproar. That's what trolls do, hence the name troll. Stop acting like a troll and I'll stop calling you a troll.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 09:11 PM
both willie and ben have been playing injured this season, yet they still gut it out. where des that fit into your stats and truths?

show me the stats of how moore does with a ripped up knee and busted shoulder.

i guess moore is better than mendenhall too? :thumbsup:

They are as injured as you are told. You don't know who is injured and who is not. Injuries are used to save face for the front office and players who have been signed for an extended period of time.

It's done in baseball all the time. Philip Hughes of the Yankees was just awful all year and all of the sudden he gets "injured" for the season and they say he had the "injury" all along, which attributed to him sucking. They did the same thing with Ian Kennedy. All football players are probably hurt all the time. If it's that serious, they won't play.

augustashark
12-16-2008, 09:12 PM
both willie and ben have been playing injured this season, yet they still gut it out. where des that fit into your stats and truths?

show me the stats of how moore does with a ripped up knee and busted shoulder.

i guess moore is better than mendenhall too? :thumbsup:

[takes deep breath and exhales]

Nice post Tony.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 09:14 PM
It continues to just freakin' amaze me how some so-called Steelers fans are so damned quick to throw a player, who has given as much to this team as Willie Parker has, under the bus when he doesn't come right back after his injury and rush for a gazillion yards per game. :doh::doh::doh:

Don't you people have anything better to do than complain and B & M????? Holy Mother of God - it's beyond the point of ridiculous.

Um...not really...I don't have anything better to do than refute these "moore is better" claims...

just tucked up the kids...got me some computer time...got the Replay of the Steelers Ravens game on over my shoulder and got the ESPN, Pro Football Stats and NFL Stats websites all open so I can cut and paste the death out of this thread til these guys apologize for suggesting Wille Be Benched....

oh..and eating peanut butter right out of the jar...cause I'm crazy like that!

:flap:

tony hipchest
12-16-2008, 09:15 PM
It continues to just freakin' amaze me how some so-called Steelers fans are so damned quick to throw a player, who has given as much to this team as Willie Parker has, under the bus when he doesn't come right back after his injury and rush for a gazillion yards per game. :doh::doh::doh:

Don't you people have anything better to do than complain and B & M????? Holy Mother of God - it's beyond the point of ridiculous.
speaking of "the bus" remember all the calls for jerome to be benched/cut/replaced because he had a naging groin injury?

:shake01:

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 09:16 PM
It continues to just freakin' amaze me how some so-called Steelers fans are so damned quick to throw a player, who has given as much to this team as Willie Parker has, under the bus when he doesn't come right back after his injury and rush for a gazillion yards per game. :doh::doh::doh:

Don't you people have anything better to do than complain and B & M????? Holy Mother of God - it's beyond the point of ridiculous.

I love the Steelers, not Parker. Does Parker pay your rent? Does he take care of you when your sick? I don't owe Parker anything. He doesn't volunteer his time for the Steelers. He doesn't play cause it's fun and he loves it or because of the fans. It's his job, he gets paid (more than you, I or anyone on this forum will make in our entire lifetime). If he can't do his job, there is nothing else to take into account.

augustashark
12-16-2008, 09:16 PM
Um...not really...I don't have anything better to do than refute these "moore is better" claims...

just tucked up the kids...got me some computer time...got the Replay of the Steelers Ravens game on over my shoulder and got the ESPN, Pro Football Stats and NFL Stats websites all open so I can cut and paste the death out of this thread til these guys apologize for suggesting Wille Be Benched....

oh..and eating peanut butter right out of the jar...cause I'm crazy like that!

:flap:

:toofunny::toofunny:

Well done sir.

FFR = fast fingers rings. LOL

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 09:17 PM
Um...not really...I don't have anything better to do than refute these "moore is better" claims...

just tucked up the kids...got me some computer time...got the Replay of the Steelers Ravens game on over my shoulder and got the ESPN, Pro Football Stats and NFL Stats websites all open so I can cut and paste the death out of this thread til these guys apologize for suggesting Wille Be Benched....

oh..and eating peanut butter right out of the jar...cause I'm crazy like that!

:flap:

I didn't know trolls apologized.:noidea: I hope that you can prove me wrong though brother.

augustashark
12-16-2008, 09:17 PM
I love the Steelers, not Parker. Does Parker pay your rent? Does he take care of you when your sick? I don't owe Parker anything. He doesn't volunteer his time for the Steelers. He doesn't play cause it's fun and he loves it or because of the fans. It's his job, he gets paid (more than you, I or anyone on this forum will make in our entire lifetime). If he can't do his job, there is nothing else to take into account.

LOL, how absurd. You are killing me.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 09:19 PM
LOL, how absurd. You are killing me.

Man-crushes are absurd. Treating Parker like he's your dad when someone dares to claim he has been bad this year is absurd.

devilsdancefloor
12-16-2008, 09:21 PM
the one thing i have seen from willie is heart your stats cant measure that. Memo has been great when he has come in. I also got to watch him in Minnesota. He is a good to come in for 10 plays a game kinda of change of pace. If he was anything other than that he would have been starting in Minnesota. But like i said earlier you can scream on these boards and go thru all the mental masterbation you want cause i do not see willie not being our starter unless he gets hurt. GO STEELERS :tt03::tt03::tt03:

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 09:22 PM
Man-crushes are absurd. Treating Parker like he's your dad when someone dares to claim he has been bad this year is absurd.

Saying he's having a less than great year is one thing...saying he should be benched in favor of a career third down back and role playing back up is something else entirely.

and if you think this has been a man crush...you've never read a single one of my Bradshaw posts...(pause for angelic music at the mention of his name)

tony hipchest
12-16-2008, 09:22 PM
[takes deep breath and exhales]

Nice post Tony.
one day you will get over it....

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 09:23 PM
Man-crushes are absurd. Treating Parker like he's your dad when someone dares to claim he has been bad this year is absurd.

He hasn't been bad, he's been hurt and has played like a warrior every chance he's had. But your being to stubborn to admit that. Go figure.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 09:24 PM
Saying he's having a less than great year is one thing...saying he should be benched in favor of a career third down back and role playing back up is something else entirely.

and if you think this has been a man crush...you've never read a single one of my Bradshaw posts...(pause for angelic music at the mention of his name)

lol..I can imagine. I would have no problem with him having his roles reversed with Moore. I would love to see what happens.You telling me what will happen is as good as a fortune teller telling me I'll be quarterback for the Steelers next week.

MACH1
12-16-2008, 09:24 PM
I love the Steelers, not Parker. Does Parker pay your rent? Does he take care of you when your sick? I don't owe Parker anything. He doesn't volunteer his time for the Steelers. He doesn't play cause it's fun and he loves it or because of the fans. It's his job, he gets paid (more than you, I or anyone on this forum will make in our entire lifetime). If he can't do his job, there is nothing else to take into account.

Are you the coach. Are you the guy that writes the pay checks. NO???? Then stop your bitching. Get over it and move on.

BlastFurnace
12-16-2008, 09:24 PM
I think what Tomlin did shows why the players respect him so much and why they enjoy playing for him.

He won this locker room over for a reason. He does the right things, knows how to push players, and is exactly what we needed after Bill retired.

Making Willie a co-captian was exactly the right thing to do. Willie is respected in the locker room...Tomlin reminded him who was boss earlier in the week....Tomlin in a classy move...reminded the team how important that Willie is to the team and how he realized that as his coach.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 09:26 PM
lol..I can imagine. I would have no problem with him having his roles reversed with Moore. I would love to see what happens.You telling me what will happen is as good as a fortune teller telling me I'll be quarterback for the Steelers next week.

Go read my post about "be honest" and read what I was saying about our schedule back in May to some fool Browns fan...and you're realize...you are talking to a fortune teller...that I have seen the future...and it is Bright...for us Steelers fans...

Look into my crystal ball...see...there is a stranger in your future...

now give me 20 bucks and hurry along.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 09:27 PM
He hasn't been bad, he's been hurt and has played like a warrior every chance he's had. But your being to stubborn to admit that. Go figure.

You and I would play hurt and like warriors every chance we got, but we would get broken in half on our first carry, regardless not you nor I should be starting for the Pittsburgh Steelers just because we would play hurt and like warriors.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 09:29 PM
Are you the coach. Are you the guy that writes the pay checks. NO???? Then stop your bitching. Get over it and move on.

I'll remember that next time you add your worthless 2 cents about another topic. Did you post on that Lamar Woodley thread? Let me go see.

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 09:29 PM
You and I would play hurt and like warriors every chance we got, but we would get broken in half on our first carry, regardless not you nor I should be starting for the Pittsburgh Steelers just because we would play hurt and like warriors.

Holy crap, you are losing it.:bonk:

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 09:30 PM
Holy crap, you are losing it.:bonk:

lol..it was a direct counter to your post. I'm supposed to cut a guy slack cause he's playing "hurt" and like a "warrior". Who in the NFL doesn't play "hurt" and like a "warrior"??

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 09:31 PM
I think what Tomlin did shows why the players respect him so much and why they enjoy playing for him.

He won this locker room over for a reason. He does the right things, knows how to push players, and is exactly what we needed after Bill retired.

Making Willie a co-captian was exactly the right thing to do. Willie is respected in the locker room...Tomlin reminded him who was boss earlier in the week....Tomlin in a classy move...reminded the team how important that Willie is to the team and how he realized that as his coach.

This post nails it, Willie isn't bigger than the team, but he's still the Starter and apparently Tomlin knows which RB gives the Steelers the best chance at Victory.

I side with Tomlin...Willie gets to start.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 09:31 PM
lol..it was a direct counter to your post. I'm supposed to cut a guy slack cause he's playing "hurt" and like a "warrior". Who in the NFL doesn't play "hurt" and like a "warrior"??

The Entire Lions Roster?

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 09:32 PM
lol..it was a direct counter to your post. I'm supposed to cut a guy slack cause he's playing "hurt" and like a "warrior". Who in the NFL doesn't play "hurt" and like a "warrior"??

If you call that a counter..You said earlier that the team makes that up to appease the fans..Just like baseball right.:doh:

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 09:35 PM
If you call that a counter..You said earlier that the team makes that up to appease the fans..Just like baseball right.:doh:

But I said in the same post, every NFL player plays hurt. Repost it and see for yourself.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 09:36 PM
The Entire Lions Roster?

That's not fair. I don't think the guys taking the field are responsible for being 0-16. Any 11 football players without proper coaching are nothing more than headless chickens. Calvin Johnson should be on the pro-bowl team

X-Terminator
12-16-2008, 09:40 PM
Didn't bother to read the thread, but 200 posts in less than 8 hours??? Man, some people must really dislike Parker...

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 09:42 PM
Didn't bother to read the thread, but 200 posts in less than 8 hours??? Man, some people must really dislike Parker...

It appears the "negative" threads are the ones that get the most posts. Agree or not, these are the type of topics that generate discussion and arguement.

X-Terminator
12-16-2008, 09:49 PM
It appears the "negative" threads are the ones that get the most posts. Agree or not, these are the type of topics that generate discussion and arguement.

Sure, that's the way it is on every message board. But still...over 200 posts in that short period of time??? Are people REALLY that down on FWP? Even the endless (until the other day) Ben bashing thread went a couple of days before reaching 200 posts.

Anyway, carry on - just wanted to make an observation. I shan't hijack this thread any longer.

NYC SteelersFan
12-16-2008, 09:51 PM
Sure, that's the way it is on every message board. But still...over 200 posts in that short period of time??? Are people REALLY that down on FWP? Even the endless (until the other day) Ben bashing thread went a couple of days before reaching 200 posts.

Anyway, carry on - just wanted to make an observation. I shan't hijack this thread any longer.

No no join us! lol

lilyoder6
12-16-2008, 09:52 PM
evryone loved willie when he was leading the league in rushing and the yr we won the sb...but if he isn't doing 1 of the either then he sucks

43Hitman
12-16-2008, 09:53 PM
Sure, that's the way it is on every message board. But still...over 200 posts in that short period of time??? Are people REALLY that down on FWP? Even the endless (until the other day) Ben bashing thread went a couple of days before reaching 200 posts.

Anyway, carry on - just wanted to make an observation. I shan't hijack this thread any longer.

No just 2...I'm done arguing semantics.

augustashark
12-16-2008, 09:58 PM
He just wants attention, I'm done. Like a 16 year old kid, can't talk sense to them.

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 10:01 PM
Sure, that's the way it is on every message board. But still...over 200 posts in that short period of time??? Are people REALLY that down on FWP? Even the endless (until the other day) Ben bashing thread went a couple of days before reaching 200 posts.

Anyway, carry on - just wanted to make an observation. I shan't hijack this thread any longer.

No, I think like 20 of those posts are me saying Parker is good and shouldn't be on the Bench...

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 10:03 PM
That's not fair. I don't think the guys taking the field are responsible for being 0-16. Any 11 football players without proper coaching are nothing more than headless chickens. Calvin Johnson should be on the pro-bowl team

Um, actually, at 0-14 all comments are Fair.

Calvin is a heck of a player no doubt, but is he playing like a wounded warrior...

he's on an 0-14 team...those guys are just collecting paychecks at this point.

I'm hoping they beat the Saints, I'd hate to have a 16-0 team one year then a 0-16 team the next...that's just too close together for "never before" things...

Dino 6 Rings
12-16-2008, 10:22 PM
:Parker should still be the Starter

:tt02:

Preacher
12-16-2008, 10:41 PM
Didn't bother to read the thread, but 200 posts in less than 8 hours??? Man, some people must really dislike Parker...

You woulda loved my theory on the issue!

Its the hated girlfriend after the wife died scenario. THe wife being Bettis, the new girlfriend being Willie.

Sure got one or two people up in arms....


Guess it may have hit the truth somewhat. :chuckle:

Funny thing is, probably no one around here would even believe that I could care less who starts, as long as we win. I am just reacting to the know-it-alls who think they know better than professional coaching staffs who spend more time with these players then their own families.

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-17-2008, 12:36 AM
Didn't bother to read the thread, but 200 posts in less than 8 hours??? Man, some people must really dislike Parker... Wow. This really sums it up for me.

There seems to be an emotional attachment that prevents folks from being objective with regards to FWP.

I dont dislike FWP in any way/shape/form. I think he has been a good-very good NFL RB for years now and has cemented his place in Steelers history and NFL history.

That being said, he is not having a good year. That may be due to 1) a bad OC, 2) a bad OL, 3) being hurt, or 4) maybe he has taken too many hits and is slowing down. Any or all of these things may contribute, but do not change the fact that he is not playing very well.

Then the next piece of the puzzle is that there is another RB on the roster who has outperformed FWP across the board. Maybe hes simply healthier or a better fit for the offense or maybe the OL likes him more or whatever, but Moore has been more effective than Parker in every way and thats a fact.

The Steelers havent found the endzone in FIVE games with FWP in the backfield. Seems that anyone who IS NOT questioning this is not owning up to the situation.

Please go back and read the original post. It is a simple fact that the Steelers are scoring far more points with Moore in the backfield than FWP. (Once again, this is not an opinion. This is a fact that has held up throughout the season).

So with a Super Bowl getting closer every week, why are so many Steelers fans seemingly insulted by the suggestion that the more productive RB start?

SunshineMan21
12-17-2008, 12:44 AM
I agree that Moore is the better back at the moment--his blocking and pass-catching abilities make him more of a multi-dimensional threat and with FWP's injuries Moore is the better rusher as well. Moore is less boom-and-bust and more of a consistent threat.

That said, it's not as though Moore is a hugely better RB than Parker, and as long as the two both play fairly major roles in the RB mix, I'm not sure this deserves to be quite such as huge issue.

The Duke
12-17-2008, 12:48 AM
I said I wasn't gonna mess with this thread, but I just wanna post this....

Tomlin's take on Titans game

Why he named running back Willie Parker a captain for last Sunday's game in Baltimore:

He's gone through a lot like we've gone through a lot. I just thought it appropriate that we send him out there to represent us at the coin toss in a game of that magnitude to let him know how we feel about him in light of some of the things that were said prior to the game. Nothing's going to come between this football team. When it's time to play, we're going to put on a united front.
.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_603258.html

Great move by tomlin!!

Anyway, continue with the parker bashing :coffee:

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-17-2008, 01:11 AM
I said I wasn't gonna mess with this thread, but I just wanna post this....



http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_603258.html

Great move by tomlin!!

Anyway, continue with the parker bashing :coffee: Parker bashing?

There is a big difference between Parker bashing and acknowledging that Moore has been better than Parker this season.

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-17-2008, 01:17 AM
Brand new from Ed Bouchette...

The ground game has not been the same since Willie Parker was injured early, injured again and then re-injured, nor since Rashard Mendenhall was lost. But a new running back has added to the offense, and he has done so both on the ground and in the air. Moore has caught 37 passes even though he had none through the first three games, and that's third-most on the team.

Moore poses something the Steelers have not had in years in their backfield, a threat to catch a pass. He was on the field during that no-huddle 92-yard drive, making the Ravens' defense respect his ability to run and catch.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08352/935609-13.stm

Or how about Colts DC Ron Meeks-

Knowing the Colts could very well see the Steelers again come playoff time, Indy defensive coordinator Ron Meeks made note of Moore's skills as a receiver: "He definitely gives them a dimension they really needed."

Are Bouchette and Ron Meeks FWP haters/bashers?

eafratitpm3
12-17-2008, 01:52 AM
The difference I see in Parker this year and this is where I think Memo is better is after contact. Willie seems to always go down with the initial contact, Memo almost always gets at least a yard or two more after initial contact. IMO Willie ran much harder and with better balance after the initial hit and got alot of yards after the first contact last year and this year he also cannot bounce it outside as he did last year. I understand he was injured but when I see RBs like McClain cutting back and bouncing the ball outside I think how does a man that size do that and "Fast Willie" can't.

Dino 6 Rings
12-17-2008, 06:55 AM
Parker bashing?

There is a big difference between Parker bashing and acknowledging that Moore has been better than Parker this season.

But you haven't proven or shown that Moore has been better. If anything, they have been the same. Sure you pulled stats from 5 games, and did some math to show that we have scored more touchdowns when Moore was in the backfield.

Now go take all the DRIVES of those games, and break them all down and show me how many times Willie was given the ball on 1st down, how many times we lined up in shotgun on 3rd and short, how many Dropped passes we had and false starts.

Moore has a very nice Per Carry Average. That's great. He isn't the kind of guy that can carry the load. He's never been able to actually carry the load, and this season against the Colts defense when he did get over 20 carries, he barely got 60 yards.

That isn't the kind of guy you replace a proven starter and work horse with.

What it is, is you Parker bashing and not showing the big picture.

Which I did, in numerous posts which you chose to ignore because You have an agenda, which is Anti-Willie as the Starter.

revefsreleets
12-17-2008, 09:04 AM
Amazing. 15 MORE pages of garbage after I stopped posting.

Here's the bottom line: Tomlin knows more about his team and how to coach it than anyone posting here. He made Willie a co-Captain for a reason. If you don't like that decision, or understand it, fine, but why continually kick the corpse of this dead horse?

My opinion? If you're looking to throw the ball to the RB, i'd prefer Moore, but if you're looking to run the ball, I'd take an 85% healthy or better Parker over a 100% Moore any day of the week.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-17-2008, 09:10 AM
My opinion? If you're looking to throw the ball to the RB, i'd prefer Moore, but if you're looking to run the ball, I'd take an 85% healthy or better Parker over a 100% Moore any day of the week.

Agreed :applaudit:

Steeldude
12-17-2008, 09:18 AM
There seems to be an emotional attachment that prevents folks from being objective with regards to FWP

happens all of the time. same happened with kordell back in the day and even porter not too long ago.

fans get this ignorant and stubborn notion that the coaches and FO can do no wrong. if you disgree with their decisions as a fan then you will be labeled a troll or hater.

fansince'76
12-17-2008, 09:21 AM
And on the other hand, you have other fans that are know-it-all armchair GMs and HCs that question everything the FO and coaches do and act like they should be calling the shots - thank God they aren't.

Steeldude
12-17-2008, 09:44 AM
And on the other hand, you have other fans that are know-it-all armchair GMs and HCs that question everything the FO and coaches do and act like they should be calling the shots

very true.

i like the fans who come to boards acting like they know all, but can't spell any of the steelers' players names.

i remember encountering one fan who didn't know of greg lloyd, but said he was a fan since the 80's :noidea:

43Hitman
12-17-2008, 09:45 AM
And on the other hand, you have other fans that are know-it-all armchair GMs and HCs that question everything the FO and coaches do and act like they should be calling the shots - thank God they aren't.


:applaudit:

SteelMember
12-17-2008, 10:20 AM
Last time I checked, the Steelers were running a 2-back system...Lucky we got two. I think both players could do better at this point, but as Dino has pointed out countless times, I don't see any reason for Willie to be replaced. I don't think he has done enough to lose his job. He has not done great, but I don't think it's that much of an upgrade, and I would rather have MeMo out there on passing downs...that fits his style more anyway, that's why we have him, and that's what he was signed for.

BTW, for NYC, you like to argue the "stats". Here is a stat for you. The UltimateMooreNetwork, since joining, has only graced us with his opinion of Steelers football through a single player. This itself should go against your personal view of being a Steelers fan above being a fan of a specific player. You have treated others (steelers fans) much worse for the same exact thing...Your arguements about Ben come to mind. Just as I asked LIG58 then, to you I ask... get over it. Your argueing percentages of yards. Add them all up...do they get us a better record. :noidea: At this point, does it matter? I don't think so. :twocents:

memphissteelergirl
12-17-2008, 11:18 AM
Well, I must say, this has been fascinating reading to say the least. :chuckle:

Please allow me to offer my .02 on this matter.

We all have our opinions, and of course we are entitled to them. But to make somebody feel they lack intellect just because their opinions don't jibe with yours is at best rude and at worst condescending. Those of you who are doing so really need to check yourself.

Moreover, I have seen enough numbers thrown around in this thread to make a statistician's head explode. But some stuff cannot be told or measured in stats.

1. I will be the first to commend MeMo for the job he is doing for this team. He has stepped in and filled his role beautifully. Notice I said role, because that's what he is: A ROLE PLAYER. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Does that make him starter material? I'm not qualified to make that call. However, when Willie is 100%, I would love to see them together in a 2-man backfield.

2. Willie Parker is a veteran on this team, and MT realizes that, which is why IMO he made him a co-captain. That is NOT based on his YPC average. Yes, Willie is not having a stellar year, but after injuries WTH do you expect??? Every 1st string player is not going to have a POY season after injury. Some do, of course, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

Bottom line: If you are measuring solely on productivity, there is little evidence to argue that MeMo AT THIS TIME is doing a little better than Willie. But Tomlin recognizes that Parker is an emotional leader as well.

Steeldude
12-17-2008, 11:56 AM
IMO, both are good and both are good for trade bait. if the steelers can get a good deal for one them, then i say take it. the steelers are deep in the RB area.

this is of course me praying for a stellar offensive lineman again :smile: either by draft or free agency

43Hitman
12-17-2008, 12:16 PM
Very well put. The fact remains that Moore in my opinion has been a great addition and with out him playing his ROLE we wouldn't be where we are. Just like if Hoke hadn't played his ROLE. Or Townsend playing his ROLE. Or Leftwich playing his ROLE. Or Stapleton playing his ROLE. Or Washington playing his ROLE. I think you get my drift. The point is, it takes a collective TEAM effort. Damn these guys are just to damn stubborn to realize this team is great and it takes everyone to be great.

This goes right along with what Memphissteelergirl is saying.But of course NYC and UFN chose to ignore this.

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-17-2008, 01:17 PM
But you haven't proven or shown that Moore has been better. If anything, they have been the same. Sure you pulled stats from 5 games, and did some math to show that we have scored more touchdowns when Moore was in the backfield.

Now go take all the DRIVES of those games, and break them all down and show me how many times Willie was given the ball on 1st down, how many times we lined up in shotgun on 3rd and short, how many Dropped passes we had and false starts.

Moore has a very nice Per Carry Average. That's great. He isn't the kind of guy that can carry the load. He's never been able to actually carry the load, and this season against the Colts defense when he did get over 20 carries, he barely got 60 yards.

That isn't the kind of guy you replace a proven starter and work horse with.

What it is, is you Parker bashing and not showing the big picture.

Which I did, in numerous posts which you chose to ignore because You have an agenda, which is Anti-Willie as the Starter.
Dude...

I have provided numerous facts that show that the Steelers ground game is more effective with Moore and the Steelers score more points with Moore. You are choosing not to acknowledge it and thats your right, but dont tell me I havent proven anything.

Parker-bashing? Anti-Willie? Absolutely not. I listed nothing but facts and you can double check that. Does Football Outsiders have an anti-Willie agenda? Give me a break.

SteelMember
12-17-2008, 02:18 PM
Dude...

I have provided numerous facts that show that the Steelers ground game is more effective with Moore and the Steelers score more points with Moore. You are choosing not to acknowledge it and thats your right, but dont tell me I havent proven anything.

Parker-bashing? Anti-Willie? Absolutely not. I listed nothing but facts and you can double check that. Does Football Outsiders have an anti-Willie agenda? Give me a break.

Do you have a pro-Moore agenda? Is he the only player you care about on this team? From the history of your posts, I think, yes.

I don't think your even a Steelers fan. Just a Green Wave fan. Am I right?

stlrtruck
12-17-2008, 02:56 PM
Dude...

I have provided numerous facts that show that the Steelers ground game is more effective with Moore and the Steelers score more points with Moore. You are choosing not to acknowledge it and thats your right, but dont tell me I havent proven anything.

Parker-bashing? Anti-Willie? Absolutely not. I listed nothing but facts and you can double check that. Does Football Outsiders have an anti-Willie agenda? Give me a break.

In those stats did it list how many times the Steelers run game has been stopped at the 1 yard line with Moore in the backfield?

I like both Parker and Moore. They've both got their positives and their negatives and as fans we need to recognize that and accept whatever decision the coaches have for the team.

BOTTOMLINE: We are 11-3! When the heck did some Steelers fans become like patriots* fans and think that this was going to be served to us on a silver platter? As usual, Steelers earn it!!

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-17-2008, 03:54 PM
Do you have a pro-Moore agenda? Is he the only player you care about on this team? From the history of your posts, I think, yes.

I don't think your even a Steelers fan. Just a Green Wave fan. Am I right?

Why are my motives being questioned? Does it make what i have said any more or less true?

My immediate personal motivation is my fantasy league championship this weekend and yes I own Moore.

Please go back and re-read my posts. I impart ZERO opinion and merely state facts. The unfortunate reality here is that all of the FACTS suggest that FWP is hurting the offense, so as long as we can agree that the FACTs have an anti-Willie agenda, then I guess we are on the same page.

FACT- The Steelers have not scored a TD in any drive FWP has participated in for 5 games now. Carry on thinking thats not a problem.

43Hitman
12-17-2008, 03:56 PM
Why are my motives being questioned? Does it make what i have said any more or less true?

My immediate personal motivation is my fantasy league championship this weekend and yes I own Moore.

Please go back and re-read my posts. I impart ZERO opinion and merely state facts. The unfortunate reality here is that all of the FACTS suggest that FWP is hurting the offense, so as long as we can agree that the FACTs have an anti-Willie agenda, then I guess we are on the same page.

FACT- The Steelers have not scored a TD in any drive FWP has participated in for 5 games now. Carry on thinking thats not a problem.

:busted::egg:

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-17-2008, 04:05 PM
:busted::egg: Thats hilarious that you think that because thats not the point here.

The Steelers havent gotten into the end zone in FIVE GAMES with FWP on the field.

This is the one and only point of this thread. The rest was supporting facts and stastistics that support this theory. Discuss as needed or continue on thinking thats fine. Ignorance is bliss here.

43Hitman
12-17-2008, 04:18 PM
No the point is the Steelers are 11-3 and on there way to a good playoff run. We have all heard you shouting for days now. Get over it and let it go. Why don't you respond to all the posts stating that this is a team game and it requires more than just MM to get the job done. Maybe you should go back to your little fantasy football league and bitch there.

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-17-2008, 04:54 PM
No the point is the Steelers are 11-3 and on there way to a good playoff run. We have all heard you shouting for days now. Get over it and let it go. Why don't you respond to all the posts stating that this is a team game and it requires more than just MM to get the job done. Maybe you should go back to your little fantasy football league and bitch there.

Really? Then what is the point of this message board? You could respond to any and every post in every topic with that garbage.

This is a team game, not the FWP game. Which is the point of this thread. There are all sorts of excuses/reasons in this thread why FWP should start, none of them having anything to do with production.

I am quite sure that you would have a different, more civil take if you could. But since you are clearly wrong you resort to attacking the messenger and his motives.

43Hitman
12-17-2008, 05:13 PM
:blah::blah::blah: my fantasy football team need MM to start. :blah::blah::blah:

Preacher
12-17-2008, 05:22 PM
PEOPLE....

I think the problem here, is that it seems everyone is talking in absolutes.

Let's talk RIGHT NOW.

RIGHT NOW. . . MeMo is doing a very good job. He should get the majority of touches, especially because of his third down ability. I would still start Parker, mainly because Parker can and does (though many don't admit this) go up the middle quite a bit. You do that in the beginning of a game and then turn your scat-back loose a bit later when legs are tired.

Why is MeMo a bit better now? Well, there is the supposed carries barrier that Willie broke last year. Any carries up over, what was it... 330? (I don't remember) means that you have a bad year the next year. It seems that is true.

FUTURE.
Just because what is happening NOW is happening, doesn't mean that it will be that way come next spring. It is this point that I think many of us are rejecting. Fact is, I have a feeling Willie will be tremendous next year precisely because of the year he is having this year. So I do NOT want to MAKE MeMo the starter. I think that is short sighted to the health of this club over the next 2-3 years. Now, if the coach came to Willie and said Hey, Willie, we need your speed for the stretch. You're playing backup for the rest of the season to make sure you are healthy, I would be ecstatic.

____________________

So let's be more specific to whether we are talking about this week, this season, or career wise. I think there is probably a lot more agreement on this board than many would think. . . but there are unspoken assumptions about what is meant,.

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-17-2008, 05:46 PM
:blah::blah::blah: my fantasy football team need MM to start. :blah::blah::blah: LOL. You admit that you only see what you want to see and therein lies the problem.

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-17-2008, 05:51 PM
PEOPLE....

I think the problem here, is that it seems everyone is talking in absolutes.

Let's talk RIGHT NOW.

RIGHT NOW. . . MeMo is doing a very good job. He should get the majority of touches, especially because of his third down ability. I would still start Parker, mainly because Parker can and does (though many don't admit this) go up the middle quite a bit. You do that in the beginning of a game and then turn your scat-back loose a bit later when legs are tired.

Why is MeMo a bit better now? Well, there is the supposed carries barrier that Willie broke last year. Any carries up over, what was it... 330? (I don't remember) means that you have a bad year the next year. It seems that is true.

FUTURE.
Just because what is happening NOW is happening, doesn't mean that it will be that way come next spring. It is this point that I think many of us are rejecting. Fact is, I have a feeling Willie will be tremendous next year precisely because of the year he is having this year. So I do NOT want to MAKE MeMo the starter. I think that is short sighted to the health of this club over the next 2-3 years. Now, if the coach came to Willie and said Hey, Willie, we need your speed for the stretch. You're playing backup for the rest of the season to make sure you are healthy, I would be ecstatic.

____________________

So let's be more specific to whether we are talking about this week, this season, or career wise. I think there is probably a lot more agreement on this board than many would think. . . but there are unspoken assumptions about what is meant,.

Well thank you for a well-intentioned, reasonable post. See it is possible to disagree or converse without name calling or suggesting that someone has an agenda.

And to clarify, I have been consistent about wondering about the stretch run right now. We are talking about 6 games until a 6th ring. Who is the best option right now? You answered that yourself.

And the question I have is, given the obvious advantage that Moore brings to the lineup, why FWP having his ego stroked (being made captain despite poor play)? If he is so much better than Moore and that important for the playoffs, why not sit him and let him get healthy? If this is healthy then why is he still the de facto starter?

(Again, lets not debate that RIGHT NOW Moore>Parker. Every statstic, yards, average, points shows a clear advantage to Moore).

cubanstogie
12-17-2008, 05:52 PM
PEOPLE....

I think the problem here, is that it seems everyone is talking in absolutes.

Let's talk RIGHT NOW.

RIGHT NOW. . . MeMo is doing a very good job. He should get the majority of touches, especially because of his third down ability. I would still start Parker, mainly because Parker can and does (though many don't admit this) go up the middle quite a bit. You do that in the beginning of a game and then turn your scat-back loose a bit later when legs are tired.

Why is MeMo a bit better now? Well, there is the supposed carries barrier that Willie broke last year. Any carries up over, what was it... 330? (I don't remember) means that you have a bad year the next year. It seems that is true.

FUTURE.
Just because what is happening NOW is happening, doesn't mean that it will be that way come next spring. It is this point that I think many of us are rejecting. Fact is, I have a feeling Willie will be tremendous next year precisely because of the year he is having this year. So I do NOT want to MAKE MeMo the starter. I think that is short sighted to the health of this club over the next 2-3 years. Now, if the coach came to Willie and said Hey, Willie, we need your speed for the stretch. You're playing backup for the rest of the season to make sure you are healthy, I would be ecstatic.

____________________

So let's be more specific to whether we are talking about this week, this season, or career wise. I think there is probably a lot more agreement on this board than many would think. . . but there are unspoken assumptions about what is meant,.

I am getting really tired of sticking up for players or coaches people on this board want to get rid of so I have stopped,it is what it is, Its like arguing politics, rarely can 2 come to an agreement or atleast respect the others opinion. If and thats a huge if I were in charge I would start Moore. I think the reason he is more successful is because our line is not capable of making holes. When moore in defense has to respect pass. IMO its not that Moore is superior, but for the team we have now and the offense in which we have been running Willie has not been getting it done and Mewelde is has been more successful. I know its a double edge sword running the 2 minute and passing all game due to defense not getting rest, but its not like they have been getting much rest anyway. We may be able to run Willie on Denver, Colts, Pats slow D, Jets, but if we play Tenn or Ravens I think Moore has got to get more playing time and we must pass first, run second. Its more about matchups than who is better. Willie could match up better against some teams, Moore the other.

43Hitman
12-17-2008, 06:05 PM
LOL. You admit that you only see what you want to see and therein lies the problem.

And you're not doing the same thing?

ShutDown24
12-17-2008, 06:10 PM
This is possibly the most pointless and unconstructive debate I have ever seen on this forum.

Dino 6 Rings
12-17-2008, 06:11 PM
Dude...

I have provided numerous facts that show that the Steelers ground game is more effective with Moore and the Steelers score more points with Moore. You are choosing not to acknowledge it and thats your right, but dont tell me I havent proven anything.

Parker-bashing? Anti-Willie? Absolutely not. I listed nothing but facts and you can double check that. Does Football Outsiders have an anti-Willie agenda? Give me a break.

Dude You Are Wrong

My facts show that the running game in general isn't doing as well as say, last year when Willie was the NFL Leading Rusher up til week 14.

You haven't shown a Single DRIVE or GAME where Moore outpeformed anything Parker has done.

At all

In fact, you show me that Moore is a good third down back.

However after he had 2 games in a row where he was getting near or over 20 carries, he came back and had a game with over 20 carries and only 57 yards. Why?

Well maybe, he was worn out from the 2 games over having to Carry the Load, something he's never had to do in his entire career.

It isn't what he's built to do, what he does, or how he plays.

He had 15 carries and 56 yards against the Bengals the 2nd time he faced them, and he had 12 carries and 67 yards against the Pats.

Those are good solid stats, for the Back Up.

Parker avereaged 3.4 against the Ravens. and had 2 receptions by the way.

Moore had zero catches against the Ravens. So he wasn't even doing his Job in that game, which is to get open in the flat or underneath in passing situations.

He Has Done nothing that warrants he should Take Parker's Job Away.

43Hitman
12-17-2008, 06:15 PM
Doesn't matter bro. Just like he is accusing me of being blind to his statistical genius,he will in turn ignore any evidence that refutes his alleged genius. He will also ignore my argument that this is a team game and that both players are equally important. And that they both have ROLES on this team. But I digress.

Dino 6 Rings
12-17-2008, 06:17 PM
When the wind blows from the north, on the 3rd sunday of October and the grass leans slightly to the right while the ocean tides are at their lowest points....the Steelers have trouble scoring...

It has nothing to do with Dropped Passes, False Starts, Holding Calls, Delay of Games or Sacks.

Nope...its all about the combined Stats for Moore in the last 5 games...yep...that explains it all...

BIG EFFING SARC SMILEY

Preacher
12-17-2008, 11:03 PM
Well thank you for a well-intentioned, reasonable post. See it is possible to disagree or converse without name calling or suggesting that someone has an agenda.

And to clarify, I have been consistent about wondering about the stretch run right now. We are talking about 6 games until a 6th ring. Who is the best option right now? You answered that yourself.

And the question I have is, given the obvious advantage that Moore brings to the lineup, why FWP having his ego stroked (being made captain despite poor play)? If he is so much better than Moore and that important for the playoffs, why not sit him and let him get healthy? If this is healthy then why is he still the de facto starter?

(Again, lets not debate that RIGHT NOW Moore>Parker. Every statstic, yards, average, points shows a clear advantage to Moore).

I don't think it is about stoking Willie's ego. Just the opposite. I think the coaching staff understands the now vs. later tension and is trying to keep Willie going through what is truly, the first tough time in his career. For me, it is a brilliant maneuver. It also keeps MeMo's legs fresh for the second half of the game.

ALSO, there were a number of times over the last game or two that Willie seemed to just be a hair away from breaking it wide open. I think the coaches are seeing that on tape and are hoping every game, that its going to be that game. It is my opinion that a deep run in the playoffs will be needing a starting willie Parker, playing at the level he was at last year or the year before. So the coaches are spending a little bit of time each game giving him the opportunity to take that last step.

Funny, because that seems to be a microcosm of this entire offense. Just a hair away from being what it was a season before. A dropped ball here, a missed block there.

lilyoder6
12-17-2008, 11:34 PM
it's just the past ghost of kuhn haunting us... since he is the one not blocking 4 our rb's... they won't have good games

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-18-2008, 03:33 AM
Dude You Are Wrong

My facts show that the running game in general isn't doing as well as say, last year when Willie was the NFL Leading Rusher up til week 14.

You haven't shown a Single DRIVE or GAME where Moore outpeformed anything Parker has done.

At all

In fact, you show me that Moore is a good third down back.

However after he had 2 games in a row where he was getting near or over 20 carries, he came back and had a game with over 20 carries and only 57 yards. Why?

Well maybe, he was worn out from the 2 games over having to Carry the Load, something he's never had to do in his entire career.

It isn't what he's built to do, what he does, or how he plays.

He had 15 carries and 56 yards against the Bengals the 2nd time he faced them, and he had 12 carries and 67 yards against the Pats.

Those are good solid stats, for the Back Up.

Parker avereaged 3.4 against the Ravens. and had 2 receptions by the way.

Moore had zero catches against the Ravens. So he wasn't even doing his Job in that game, which is to get open in the flat or underneath in passing situations.

He Has Done nothing that warrants he should Take Parker's Job Away.

I am not quite sure what to say to this. You seem to be consciously ignoring the clear facts that have been presented.

In very clear terms, I have relayed the fact that not only has Moore been more productive than Parker in every individiual category, but that the Steelers as a team are far less productive scoring points with FWP in the lineup.

Those are the all-inclusive conclusions from the last 5 games.

Forget about Moore. Lets pretend he is not an option.

The Steelers have not reached the end zone in FIVE GAMES with FWP in the lineup. Wouldnt you be ready to try anyone else? Gary Russel? Davenport? Vincent? Anyone?

UltimateFootballNetwork
12-18-2008, 03:44 AM
I don't think it is about stoking Willie's ego. Just the opposite. I think the coaching staff understands the now vs. later tension and is trying to keep Willie going through what is truly, the first tough time in his career. For me, it is a brilliant maneuver. It also keeps MeMo's legs fresh for the second half of the game.

ALSO, there were a number of times over the last game or two that Willie seemed to just be a hair away from breaking it wide open. I think the coaches are seeing that on tape and are hoping every game, that its going to be that game. It is my opinion that a deep run in the playoffs will be needing a starting willie Parker, playing at the level he was at last year or the year before. So the coaches are spending a little bit of time each game giving him the opportunity to take that last step.

Funny, because that seems to be a microcosm of this entire offense. Just a hair away from being what it was a season before. A dropped ball here, a missed block there. Again, thanks for the reasoned thoughtful post. Happy to debate any/all without having to be called names.

If you are correct, I would expect MM to get more 4th quarter carries which he hasnt.

Willie may be a hair away from breaking it, but I still think thats the wrong criteria to worry about. First off, every NFL player is a hair away from breaking every play, those things happen once every few years for even the best players. But the Steelers have a world class defense and need to win a few games to secure a championship, so why would they care about the once a year or two big one?

Keeping the chains moving is FAR more important than breaking the big one, and 1 RB has been far better at that.

HometownGal
12-18-2008, 05:31 AM
DIE THREAD DIE!!!!!

That is all.