PDA

View Full Version : Santonio Holmes as a steeler


public - enemy
12-17-2008, 09:51 AM
Based on what he has done on and off the field I see a resemblance to plexico.
The minor Misd arrests that plex. got himself into in cleveland for drinking and then the virrginia beach arrest, hell holmes was arrested twice before becoming a steeler.
The steelers would be smart in telling him to step up on and off the field or he will be another plexico burress.

Fire Haley
12-17-2008, 10:28 AM
This board would be smart to ignore anything else you have to say.

Holmes is our #1 deep threat WR that we've been waiting decades for - and you want to dump him

Brilliant!

RoethlisBURGHer
12-17-2008, 10:28 AM
IMHO, he's not that bad.

He was supposed to have that breakout year...but with all the problems with Ben's injuries, the lack of a strong run game, and poor offensive line play...he's been unable to have that year. However without him we are 9-5 instead of 11-3 because we might have lost both games to Baltimore without big plays from Holmes.

I'm not giving up on him, and I don't think many people here are either. He got suspended without pay for 1 game for the pot thing...I wouldn't doubt that he had a heart-to-heart with Dan Rooney about that and was told to quite until he's no longer a Steeler or he won't be a Steeler for long.

Hopefully next year Ben won't be as dinged up, and we'll get an o-linemen (or five) that can actually sustain a block long enough for plays to develop.

And if he continues to be a problem or doesn't produce on the field, he'll be cut or simply not resigned when his contract is up.

MACH1
12-17-2008, 10:34 AM
Hopefully unlike plex, Santo will LEARN from his mistakes.

BlastFurnace
12-17-2008, 10:54 AM
If you look at their careers in parallel, I think Plex was a better receiver from year 2 of their careers forward. Plex had 2 real nice years (years 2 and 3) for us that Santonio has yet to come close to. I also feel that Plex was much more of a threat on the field.

That is not saying that Holmes is not a good receiver. But...honestly, I thought he would be more of a threat than he is.

stlrtruck
12-17-2008, 11:07 AM
Santo made some bad mistakes before he took the field for the Steelers, even after his drafting.

I really haven't seen or heard about him in the news since then. So there's nothing in his actions or words that even resemble that of plax. He isn't getting a huge ego, he's playing the game, and he's staying out of trouble.

I worry not about Santo becoming like plax.

Fire Haley
12-17-2008, 11:17 AM
They once both wore the evil cornrows, that's the only resemblance.

No wonder the crackers are still ascared of them.

realdeal
12-17-2008, 11:24 AM
You guys should lay off "smokey". :laughing:

The_WARDen
12-17-2008, 11:35 AM
After last season, I think we all expected him to step up more this year. I think he's actually taken a step back this season.

Course, a great playoff run could always change my opinion.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-17-2008, 11:38 AM
This board would be smart to ignore anything else you have to say.

Holmes is our #1 deep threat WR that we've been waiting decades for - and you want to dump him

Brilliant! :thumbsup:

Edman
12-17-2008, 12:09 PM
Ben hasn't been having that great a season either. Should we dump him? What about Willie Parker? Should we dump him too?

The whole offense has stuggled mightily this year. It doesn't really surprise me Santo's numbers are down.

He atoned for his goof ups in the last game with a spectacular TD catch. He showed awareness and smartly broke off his route so Ben could get him the ball. I'm not going to shut him out just yet.

BlastFurnace
12-17-2008, 12:26 PM
Ben hasn't been having that great a season either. Should we dump him? What about Willie Parker? Should we dump him too?

The whole offense has stuggled mightily this year. It doesn't really surprise me Santo's numbers are down.

He atoned for his goof ups in the last game with a spectacular TD catch. He showed awareness and smartly broke off his route so Ben could get him the ball. I'm not going to shut him out just yet.

It's not a matter of dumping him. I'm certainly not thinking that way. I still think he can be the gamebreaker that everyone see's in him. I think he has the potential to be every bit as good as Steve Smith, but we will see.

Just because someone makes a observation about a player doesn't mean that we are saying he stinks, get rid of him, or that we can outperform him on the football field. It's just an observation.

RoethlisBURGHer
12-17-2008, 12:32 PM
It's not a matter of dumping him. I'm certainly not thinking that way. I still think he can be the gamebreaker that everyone see's in him. I think he has the potential to be every bit as good as Steve Smith, but we will see.

Just because someone makes a observation about a player doesn't mean that we are saying he stinks, get rid of him, or that we can outperform him on the football field. It's just an observation.

I think Edman's post was to the original poster and not anyone else.

Mots
12-17-2008, 06:03 PM
Doesn't really have much to do with the actual topic here, but I found this old interview with Santonio from before last Superbowl. I think this was probably already posted months ago, but thought I'd share it anyway since I just found it: http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d8066ea99.

Santonio comes across real cool, explains the comments made by Ben Roethlisberger about big receivers and he actually picks the Giants to win the Super Bowl.

WWIIOwheelz
12-17-2008, 06:36 PM
I'll be honest, based on the realistic expectations I had before the season (the fantastic shape he appeared to be in in training camp and the attitude he seemed to have), I'm sad to say that no Steeler player has disappointed me more than Santonio. He's rivaled Nate for drops of catchable balls this season, and his special teams play hasn't been stellar either.

I still see glimpses of his potential to be a superstar, but they are normally followed by reminders of mediocrity. I'm not sure what's happened with him, but it certainly hasn't added up in my mind.

Frankie3521
12-17-2008, 06:38 PM
Just because someone smokes pot doesn't make them a bad person, a little pot is good for everybody.

ShutDown24
12-17-2008, 06:44 PM
Santonio is a great player for us and already has many great moments as a Steeler.

His breakout year was last year in my opinion folks, I think he's only going to keep progressing from now on. In a year when the entire offense is figuring out their identity, I don't think you can blame him for a slight drop in production (He has had an 'OKAY' year despite what most think about his numbers).

In my opinion, Santonio will coninue to get better as a player and a person under great locker room influence and mature coaches.

lilyoder6
12-17-2008, 06:46 PM
I'll be honest, based on the realistic expectations I had before the season (the fantastic shape he appeared to be in in training camp and the attitude he seemed to have), I'm sad to say that no Steeler player has disappointed me more than Santonio. He's rivaled Nate for drops of catchable balls this season, and his special teams play hasn't been stellar either.

I still see glimpses of his potential to be a superstar, but they are normally followed by reminders of mediocrity. I'm not sure what's happened with him, but it certainly hasn't added up in my mind.


holmes is on punt return!!!!! other than bush in that 1 game... u rly rly rly don't hear that much from punt returns... and the fact bout him in the off-season looking good.. he can only do so much until ben throws him the ball... and it's hard for ben to throw the ball when he has pressure almost evry dropback

markymarc
12-17-2008, 07:29 PM
Nice. Our entire offense has struggled this season and now Holmes should be dumped. There is only 1 person that should be dumped and that would be Arians. Get rid of this bum and the offense already becomes better. Based off last season everyone expected another big year for Ben, Holmes, FWP and others but it just didn't materialize. Holmes is a very good WR and I am glad he is on the Steelers.

public - enemy
12-18-2008, 12:16 AM
This board would be smart to ignore anything else you have to say.

Holmes is our #1 deep threat WR that we've been waiting decades for - and you want to dump him

Brilliant!

Did any of you guys hear me say dump him, I made an observation about his off field
issues and his inconsistent play. Santonio holmes has been arrested three times
since 2006. The rooneys will not tolerate this type of behavior.

Fire Haley
12-18-2008, 12:24 AM
Jaywalking tickets don't count.

Holmes will be our #1 WR for the next decade. Write that down.

lilyoder6
12-18-2008, 12:32 AM
and all of his arrests were misdemeanors.... no big deal..

Fire Haley
12-18-2008, 12:35 AM
He wasn't even arrested for his last little weed thang - just got a ticket to appear in court in the mail.

{yawn}

public - enemy
12-18-2008, 12:46 AM
The Misd. arrest for marijuana is still an arrest, the only differance that santonio has ties to the community,so the officer used discretion and allowed him to receive a citation, if I WOULD have done the samething I would have been arrested because I DO NOT reside in PA.

public - enemy
12-18-2008, 12:51 AM
Jaywalking tickets don't count.

Holmes will be our #1 WR for the next decade. Write that down.

The steelers will not overpay for receivers, I agree Holmes has the potential
to become a top 10 receiver, however he controls all that, not bloggers.

augustashark
12-18-2008, 01:00 AM
They once both wore the evil cornrows, that's the only resemblance.

No wonder the crackers are still ascared of them.

Very stupid post, has nothing to do with the topic at all.

As far as Holmes, I like the kids heart. He breaks tackles unlike Washington and will try to score every time he makes a catch. Breakout seasons can only happen when you are targeted more then what Holmes has been.

Borski
12-18-2008, 01:12 AM
You guys should lay off "smokey". :laughing:

Haha, I like that nickname

Santonio "Smokey" Holmes

I see nothing wrong with Holmes, and I think he has the potential to be a great player.

Pi Kapp Steeler
12-18-2008, 01:24 AM
I think that santonio will eventually be our number 1 guy in the future. The reason why he hasnt exploded this season is that our O-Line is horrible and our Defense has been incredible. The reason i mention the Defense is b/c they keep games to single digits,that being the case big plays are unnecessary , and our deep play guy is holmes.

Another thing we MUST do , is in the draft find a incredible Kick Returner deep in the draft. So Toni doesnt have to do that either.

Holmes is not plaxico , he wants to be a steeler. Plax didnt.

Steeldude
12-18-2008, 01:44 AM
holmes hasn't been bad and he hasn't been great either. in terms of a 1st round pick i would say he is performing below the expected norm. one could make a point that the steelers aren't a pass-happy offense. that is a valid point. the more times your offense throws, the more chances a WR has to prove themselves. with that point also comes the point that if the steelers are not a pass-happy offense, then why draft a WR in the 1st round?

last sunday was a very bad day for holmes. what upset me the most was a pass near the endzone(i think towards the end of the game) that he didn't even try for. why don't WRs dive for passes any longer? when i was playing in football leagues i would always dive and jump and do everything i possibly could to catch any ball thrown to me. i did it for free. i didn't need a million dollars to get me going.

SteelCityKingsVP
12-18-2008, 01:51 AM
Honestly with his fumblitus, maybe a trade is in his near future

The Duke
12-18-2008, 02:01 AM
Honestly with his fumblitus, maybe a trade is in his near future

:rofl:

you're a funny guy

Santonio may be having a rough season, but he's not getting cut or traded. Will never happen

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
12-18-2008, 02:41 AM
Honestly I am not a fan of him or Washington, too many drops for my liking. Everyone talks about how "bad" Ben is, but not how many passes his receivers drop.

NYC SteelersFan
12-18-2008, 03:05 AM
This board would be smart to ignore anything else you have to say.

Holmes is our #1 deep threat WR that we've been waiting decades for - and you want to dump him

Brilliant!

Are you serious? We've been waiting for Holmes to be our #1 deep threat WR for decades?

NYC SteelersFan
12-18-2008, 03:14 AM
Honestly I am not a fan of him or Washington, too many drops for my liking. Everyone talks about how "bad" Ben is, but not how many passes his receivers drop.

Roethlisberger's season wouldn't look the way it is if those 2 weren't dropping the passes they were dropping. Best part is, when one of them does mae a great catch, Willie Colon gets called for holding. I don't know if pass is completed because of Willie Colon holding or if the refs just choose to screw us when those plays are made. I would definitely give Holmes another 2 seasons to prove himself, especially with another coordinator. Washington on the other hand, one more season of his butterfingers and maybe he can be our next Deshea Townsend??

Galax Steeler
12-18-2008, 04:51 AM
Every widereciever is going to drop balls no one is perfect and Holmes isn't either there is no way he is going anywhere else when Ward retires Holmes will start getting his share of catches he is the future receiver in pittsburgh.

Blitzburgh_Fever
12-18-2008, 05:55 AM
You guys keep talking about Washington like this is last year or the year before. The fact is he's been making damn difficult catches and is our best receiver at getting open (definitely benefited from having a nickel corner on him, but still).

Last game he missed a catch that 80% of WR wouldn't have caught. That's pretty much the only one. Santonio had a bad drop and a fumble, so there's some merit there, and he's had several drops this season, but he's by no means at all close to a bad #1 pick.

You people seem to forget being a deep threat doesn't mean you catch 3 TDs every game. It means you're pulling a corner and safety help, freeing up the other receivers. If defenses didn't respect Holmes so much, he'd probably be dumping 12 TDs a season. As is, he frees up Washington and Miller, and even sometimes Ward.

We have three definitely solid receivers, and a fourth that has given all indications of being stellar, and you people want to dump one. :banging:

stillers4me
12-18-2008, 06:11 AM
Ben sucks, Willie sucks, Tone sucks and is a Plax clone, Hines is done, hell.....let's throw Harrison out because he had an incident, too. Besides, he's a horrible long snapper. Cut Reed........he missed two FG's. Schmuck.

Have I missed anyone? Silly me......I forgot the coaches. Fire Tomlin! He hired Arians and hasn't won a playoff game in his entire head coaching career! What a loser the Rooney picked this time.

HometownGal
12-18-2008, 06:29 AM
I have no problem whatsoever with Santo. He's not having the stellar season I believed he would have, but none of the Steelers wideouts are setting the record books on fire. I'm quite content with him as a Pittsburgh Steeler. :applaudit::tt02:

NYC SteelersFan
12-18-2008, 02:59 PM
Ben sucks, Willie sucks, Tone sucks and is a Plax clone, Hines is done, hell.....let's throw Harrison out because he had an incident, too. Besides, he's a horrible long snapper. Cut Reed........he missed two FG's. Schmuck.

Have I missed anyone? Silly me......I forgot the coaches. Fire Tomlin! He hired Arians and hasn't won a playoff game in his entire head coaching career! What a loser the Rooney picked this time.

I think you're going overboard here...lol...Ben is an elite top 5 quarterback, Parker does suck right now, Holmes is in no way a Burress clone otherwise, Burress is the second best receiver in the league, Holmes isn't the 22nd best receiver in the league. Ward is still a great receiver as has at least a good 2 years left. Harrison, I would trade him if trades were possible in football, we all know the Rooney's won't dish out the cash he'll end up asking for if he has another year even as close as good as this one. Reed?? This is where you crossed the line! MVP! MVP!

I'll give Tomlin all of next season before passing any judgement on him.

p.s. I know you were being sarcastic :drink:

43Hitman
12-18-2008, 03:21 PM
I think you're going overboard here...lol...Ben is an elite top 5 quarterback, Parker does suck right now, Holmes is in no way a Burress clone otherwise, Burress is the second best receiver in the league, Holmes isn't the 22nd best receiver in the league. Ward is still a great receiver as has at least a good 2 years left. Harrison, I would trade him if trades were possible in football, we all know the Rooney's won't dish out the cash he'll end up asking for if he has another year even as close as good as this one. Reed?? This is where you crossed the line! MVP! MVP!

I'll give Tomlin all of next season before passing any judgement on him.

p.s. I know you were being sarcastic :drink:

I disagree with this part. Moss is better, Andre Johnson is better, Greg Jennings is better, Larry Fitzgerlad is better, Anquoun Boldin is better. Reggie Wayne is better.

SCSTILLER
12-18-2008, 03:31 PM
I think Santo will be a great receiver for the Steelers, just alot of problems with the offense as a whole have limited him.

I do beleive, though, that if his off the field problems continue or worsen, he should be gone. I am not hoping that this happens or want it to happen, but I don't want trouble makers/law breakers on our team (we are not the Bengals). In his interviews he seems like he is a great guy with a good head on his shoulders that has made some stupid mistakes, hopefully that is all it is, stupid mistakes.

Saying that, I hope Santo and the whole O have a great run in the playoffs and bring us #6!

PS: This is not a "gid rid of Santo" reply!

stlrz fan
12-18-2008, 03:49 PM
Santonio Holmes os a playmaker but he doesn't fit the level of quality people that the Steeler organization fields (YET) He doesn't have the Plaxico bagagge and he is a team player. I just hope he settles down after making his plays.

NYC SteelersFan
12-18-2008, 03:52 PM
I disagree with this part. Moss is better, Andre Johnson is better, Greg Jennings is better, Larry Fitzgerlad is better, Anquoun Boldin is better. Reggie Wayne is better.

Of course Moss is better, that's why Burress is #2. Steve Smith? It's possible. Andre Johnson , Fitzgerald, Boldin and Wayne over Burress? There is no way.

BlastFurnace
12-18-2008, 04:27 PM
Of course Moss is better, that's why Burress is #2. Steve Smith? It's possible. Andre Johnson , Fitzgerald, Boldin and Wayne over Burress? There is no way.

Every single receiver you mentioned in your post is a better receiver than Burress. Especially, Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson.

NYC SteelersFan
12-18-2008, 05:58 PM
Every single receiver you mentioned in your post is a better receiver than Burress. Especially, Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson.

The stats would heavily argue otherwise with you. I just think that none of those receivers, especially not Wayne, can make the circus catches that Burress is capable of making. Burress made a Superbowl champion out of a QB with a 75 rating. None of those receivers could've done for Eli what Burress did. Burress like Moss can single-handedly transform an offense by forcing opponents defense's to double cover him. No one double covers Wayne and most will not double Boldin or Fitzgerald. I think Boldin and Fitzgerald benefit from each other being on the same team, I don't think they would fare as well alone. Also he is an QB-proof receiver, another words it doesn't matter if the QB is good or not as opposed to the other receivers who need good/great QB's.

MACH1
12-18-2008, 06:14 PM
The stats would heavily argue otherwise with you. I just think that none of those receivers, especially not Wayne, can make the circus catches that Burress is capable of making. Burress made a Superbowl champion out of a QB with a 75 rating. None of those receivers could've done for Eli what Burress did. Burress like Moss can single-handedly transform an offense by forcing opponents defense's to double cover him. No one double covers Wayne and most will not double Boldin or Fitzgerald. I think Boldin and Fitzgerald benefit from each other being on the same team, I don't think they would fare as well alone. Also he is an QB-proof receiver, another words it doesn't matter if the QB is good or not as opposed to the other receivers who need good/great QB's.


http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/for/lowres/forn371l.jpg

NYC SteelersFan
12-18-2008, 06:16 PM
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/for/lowres/forn371l.jpg

You're quite clever sir. Can you multiply and divide also?

MACH1
12-18-2008, 06:20 PM
You're quite clever sir. Can you multiply and divide also?

The statistics says I can. :cheer:

NYC SteelersFan
12-18-2008, 06:21 PM
The statistics says I can. :cheer:

You and your family should be very proud then.

:cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:

43Hitman
12-18-2008, 06:25 PM
The stats would heavily argue otherwise with you. I just think that none of those receivers, especially not Wayne, can make the circus catches that Burress is capable of making. Burress made a Superbowl champion out of a QB with a 75 rating. None of those receivers could've done for Eli what Burress did. Burress like Moss can single-handedly transform an offense by forcing opponents defense's to double cover him. No one double covers Wayne and most will not double Boldin or Fitzgerald. I think Boldin and Fitzgerald benefit from each other being on the same team, I don't think they would fare as well alone. Also he is an QB-proof receiver, another words it doesn't matter if the QB is good or not as opposed to the other receivers who need good/great QB's.


You see, that's the problem with stats. They don't tell the whole story. If Fitzgerlad was on a team without Boldin he would be double teamed no doubt. The same with Boldin. By the way Fitz was on that team before Boldin and did just fine by himself. With freaking Jake Plummer.The mere fact that your implying that Burress is better than all those on that list is crazy. All of those recievers are better despite being double teamed all year. Burress showed up for one game. The Super Bowl. It was a mistake in coverage when the Pats* bit on a playaction pass play that left Burress wide open.
Other than that he really didn't do shit in that game. What about Smith, he get double teamed all the time and still kicks ass. Jake Delhomme was in the freaking NFL Eurpe league. Andre Johnson gets double covered all the time and stil gets it done.

Do you actually think that Peyton would be shit without Wayne? Or Harrison when he could play? How about how inflated Shaub's numbers are? Don't think Johnson had something to do with that? If any of those guys on that list where on the Giants they would be a lot better than they would be with Plex. No doubt in my mind about that.

KeiselPower99
12-18-2008, 06:54 PM
Ill say this I wish we would have drafted Nick Mangold instead. I love Tone but Mangold was the right choice. Look at that draft. Holmes Smith and Reid as our top picks. Mangold couldve been a stud and we could have got a Wr in the 2nd rd.

43Hitman
12-18-2008, 07:01 PM
Ill say this I wish we would have drafted Nick Mangold instead. I love Tone but Mangold was the right choice. Look at that draft. Holmes Smith and Reid as our top picks. Mangold couldve been a stud and we could have got a Wr in the 2nd rd.

I agree, I think our need at Center after losing Hartings was bigger than the pick of Holmes. Don't get me wrong I like Holmes, just think in hindsight that Mangold would have been a better pick.

NYC SteelersFan
12-18-2008, 07:24 PM
You see, that's the problem with stats. They don't tell the whole story. If Fitzgerlad was on a team without Boldin he would be double teamed no doubt. The same with Boldin. By the way Fitz was on that team before Boldin and did just fine by himself. With freaking Jake Plummer.

Plummer was an average to good QB. Fitzgerald was not on the team before Boldin. Boldin was on the team before Fitzgerald and it was his rookie year and a damn fine one. Both are great, neither are the type of difference maker that Burress is/was. At the very least, Both would require being on teams by themselves before being compared to Burress. Or at least play as long as Burress has.

The mere fact that your implying that Burress is better than all those on that list is crazy. All of those recievers are better despite being double teamed all year. Burress showed up for one game. The Super Bowl. It was a mistake in coverage when the Pats* bit on a playaction pass play that left Burress wide open.
Other than that he really didn't do shit in that game.

70 receptions for 1,025 yards and 12TD's in the regular season is considered $hit? And what about the 11 receptions for 154 yards against Green Bay in the Conference game? Especially when it's Mr. 55% completion% Eli Manning throwing those passes?

What about Smith, he get double teamed all the time and still kicks ass. Jake Delhomme was in the freaking NFL Eurpe league.

What were Mushin Muhammad's numbers the year Smith broke his leg and Muhammad became the #1 receiver for the panthers? I'll remind you:

93 receptions for 1,405 yards and 16 TD's

Who was the QB? Europe's finest Jake Delhomme. Has Steve Smith ever had as many TD's? No. Has Smith ever had as many yards? Once in his career.

The point? Jake Delhomme is pretty damn good when he wants to be and the Panthers offensive pass scheme helps the receivers more than the receivers help the Carolina offensive pass scheme.

Andre Johnson gets double covered all the time and stil gets it done.

Let him break 10 TD's for the year once in his career before putting him on par with Burress.

Do you actually think that Peyton would be shit without Wayne? Or Harrison when he could play? How about how inflated Shaub's numbers are? Don't think Johnson had something to do with that? If any of those guys on that list where on the Giants they would be a lot better than they would be with Plex. No doubt in my mind about that.

Didn't Brandon Stokley gain 1,077 yards on 68 receptions for an insane average of 15.8 yards per reception and 10 TD's one season for the Colts? Where is Stokley now? Had he ever broken 1,000 yards in his career prior or after playing for the Colts? Had he ever broken 700 yards in his career prior or after playing for the Colts? Seems to me the Colt's system makes the receiver, not the other way around,

NYC SteelersFan
12-18-2008, 07:25 PM
Ill say this I wish we would have drafted Nick Mangold instead. I love Tone but Mangold was the right choice. Look at that draft. Holmes Smith and Reid as our top picks. Mangold couldve been a stud and we could have got a Wr in the 2nd rd.

I agree, I think our need at Center after losing Hartings was bigger than the pick of Holmes. Don't get me wrong I like Holmes, just think in hindsight that Mangold would have been a better pick.

Agreed.

Polamalu43
12-18-2008, 07:25 PM
Based on what he has done on and off the field I see a resemblance to plexico.
The minor Misd arrests that plex. got himself into in cleveland for drinking and then the virrginia beach arrest, hell holmes was arrested twice before becoming a steeler.
The steelers would be smart in telling him to step up on and off the field or he will be another plexico burress.

LMAO, are you sayin or thinkin of dumping holmes? if so, i suggest you get some help and fast.

lilyoder6
12-18-2008, 07:34 PM
NYC..... fitz was by himself 4 a few games this yr w/o boldin and his numbers went up!

who cares if johnson doesn't have 10 td's in a single season... he IS STILL a BETTER wr THAN burress..

burress is good but i would def take some wr's b4 him.. ala johnson,smith,fitz, etc 4 example

Polamalu43
12-18-2008, 07:36 PM
NYC..... fitz was by himself 4 a few games this yr w/o boldin and his numbers went up!

who cares if johnson doesn't have 10 td's in a single season... he IS STILL a BETTER wr THAN burress..
burress is good but i would def take some wr's b4 him.. ala johnson,smith,fitz, etc 4 example

Word on that!!! :tt:

NYC SteelersFan
12-18-2008, 07:41 PM
NYC..... fitz was by himself 4 a few games this yr w/o boldin and his numbers went up!

They're both great just not where Burress is.

who cares if johnson doesn't have 10 td's in a single season... he IS STILL a BETTER wr THAN burress..

I care. If you're not basing Johnson better than Burress based on stats, what are you basing it on? How many Houston games have you watched to know how good Johnson is without looking at the fact that he has never had double digit TD's?

burress is good but i would def take some wr's b4 him.. ala johnson,smith,fitz, etc 4 example

He's going to be 32 and has some serious baggage, at this point I would take a few guys ahead of him also, but if you give me one year and 1 wide receiver not named Randy Moss, I'm taking Burress. Unless I can have any QB I want also, then I'll take Steve Smith if I can have a great QB.

augustashark
12-19-2008, 01:33 AM
I disagree with this part. Moss is better, Andre Johnson is better, Greg Jennings is better, Larry Fitzgerlad is better, Anquoun Boldin is better. Reggie Wayne is better.

Throw in Calvin Johnson and TO and too close to calls are TJ, Chad Johnson and Brandon Marshall.

Plax being the 2nd best WR in the league? BWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAA!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NYC SteelersFan
12-19-2008, 02:26 AM
Throw in Calvin Johnson and TO and too close to calls are TJ, Chad Johnson and Brandon Marshall.

Plax being the 2nd best WR in the league? BWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAA!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If he was ont he Steelers still you would say he was better than Moss.

augustashark
12-19-2008, 03:13 AM
If he was ont he Steelers still you would say he was better than Moss.

Yea you're right NYC I would. :blah::blah:

your posts are really starting to show your soft underbelly.

Dino 6 Rings
12-19-2008, 08:20 AM
I think Holmes is having focus issues. He also is usually drawing the #1 guy on the other teams defense in coverage. Hines gets the Safety with a linebacker underneath, Washington usually gets the 2nd Corner of the other team. So Holmes is drawing the top defensive corner with safety help on most 3rd and long plays. I think that may be why he's been running more and more shorter routes and why Washington is getting the deeper routes.

I'd double Holmes too on most 3rd and long plays. Ward gets open in those situations usually because they cover him with the nickle with an LB trying to cover the slant route. But Holmes is getting doubled by two d-backs.

The_WARDen
12-19-2008, 03:37 PM
I think Holmes is having focus issues. He also is usually drawing the #1 guy on the other teams defense in coverage. Hines gets the Safety with a linebacker underneath, Washington usually gets the 2nd Corner of the other team. So Holmes is drawing the top defensive corner with safety help on most 3rd and long plays. I think that may be why he's been running more and more shorter routes and why Washington is getting the deeper routes.

I'd double Holmes too on most 3rd and long plays. Ward gets open in those situations usually because they cover him with the nickle with an LB trying to cover the slant route. But Holmes is getting doubled by two d-backs.

When you're a #1 pick, you should expect to be double teamed....that comes with the territory.

Crushzilla
12-19-2008, 05:33 PM
When you're a #1 pick, you should expect to be double teamed....that comes with the territory.

Right. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.

If we have to sacrifice Holmes to get open looks with Ward, Washington, and Miller then I'd say Holmes is doing a hell of a job.

public - enemy
12-19-2008, 06:58 PM
LMAO, are you sayin or thinkin of dumping holmes? if so, i suggest you get some help and fast.

Now finally someone sticking to the subject at hand. The steelers will monitor holmes off field and player performance. Santonio will be under scrutiny when it
comes to reup time. The steelers are going to evaluate the pros and cons about
the descision. I never said that the steelers should let him go, but full desclosure
I'm not a holmes fan because, he's not a smart football player or uses those critical
thinking skills that he should possess.

lilyoder6
12-19-2008, 07:19 PM
i have seen some games by the texans.. other than johnson who does the texans have to throw the ball too??? the man can make plays.... plex has the luxury of a great running game that def have to wry about.. johnson does not.. so they can just wry bout johnson.. grant it.. slaton has been getting better but by no means is it as good as the g-men running game

T.Richardson
12-19-2008, 07:19 PM
Holmes brings the Steelers a deep threat, and he is one of the fastest players on the team. He is fine, he just needs to start catching the balls more.

Preacher
12-19-2008, 07:30 PM
What I like about Holmes:

1. He has learned from Ward in the blocking department. I have seen him come across and DRILL people on blocks.
2. He has speed and can get the deep ball. Him and washington on either side opens up the underneath routes.
3. He seems to have bought in into the Steelers team approach (see number 1), but also does not complain when he doesn't get the ball thrown to him. In that sense, he is very much a team player.

What I don't like about Holmes.

1. I thought we were over the off-field issues. His arrest this year worries me, as does what he was arrested for. Just one the practical level, smoking pot hurts the lungs and may take a couple years off his playing career. Not smart.
2. He seems to have regressed a bit this year. then again, it seems the entire offense has. So who knows?

My conclusion: I think I want to see him play out this contract, and then sign him in the same way Starks was signed this year. Let him basically play two years under a microscope and see how he produces.

My belief is that crucible will produce the WR that we have though he could be.

TheManOfSteel
12-19-2008, 08:05 PM
After last season, I think we all expected him to step up more this year. I think he's actually taken a step back this season.
Course, a great playoff run could always change my opinion.




As I agree he has taken a step back this year. Yet Nate Washington stepped up this year to counter Holmes step back. If he steps up in the playoffs like he did when we needed it most in the Baltimore game that should be enough to redeem himself.


Over all I love the receiving core. Washington and Holmes are known to drop he ball from time to time this year. Yet they step up when the game is on the line when are team needs it most. :tt: :tt:

The Duke
12-19-2008, 08:14 PM
i have seen some games by the texans.. other than johnson who does the texans have to throw the ball too??? the man can make plays.... plex has the luxury of a great running game that def have to wry about.. johnson does not.. so they can just wry bout johnson.. grant it.. slaton has been getting better but by no means is it as good as the g-men running game

Texans actually have very good receiving options. Kevin Walter has become an amazing receiver, always reliable. Owen Daniels gets a lot of balls his way at tight end. And slaton is a pretty good receiver out of the backfield

That said, Johnson is still better than burress

steelwall
12-19-2008, 09:43 PM
Hopefully unlike plex, Santo will LEARN from his mistakes.


Yeah Plax is a blooming idiot. I don't see Santo shooting himelf in the leg causing a hooker stampede.

cubanstogie
12-20-2008, 12:05 AM
I wil give ou most of the arguements made here. I don't think Wayne ould be much in any other offense. I love Fitzs' size and Boldin's toughness, but they due certainly benefit from playing onthe saem team and with Warner. However Andre Johnson is possibly as good as Moss and certainly better than Burress. He single handly makes the Texans competative.

Burress doesn' even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as these guys. I would take Wayne over Burress anyday. I don't see Plaxico in the top ten receivers. He would be a 3rd receiver on a lot of teams. Arizona, Cowboys, Colts, Bengals, Pats,Carolina, Denver, maybe even here in Pittsburgh if Santonio steps it up a little.

NYC SteelersFan
12-20-2008, 12:33 AM
I wil give ou most of the arguements made here. I don't think Wayne ould be much in any other offense. I love Fitzs' size and Boldin's toughness, but they due certainly benefit from playing onthe saem team and with Warner. However Andre Johnson is possibly as good as Moss and certainly better than Burress. He single handly makes the Texans competative.

An arguement could be made for Johnson over Burress.

Burress doesn' even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as these guys. I would take Wayne over Burress anyday. I don't see Plaxico in the top ten receivers. He would be a 3rd receiver on a lot of teams. Arizona, Cowboys, Colts, Bengals, Pats,Carolina, Denver, maybe even here in Pittsburgh if Santonio steps it up a little.

This is just an insane statement. Not a top 10 Receiver and a #3 receiver on a lot of teams? What on earth do you base this on other than strictly personal opinion?

And the fascination with Reggie Wayne as a top receiver in the NFL due to his fantasy football value is a bit ridiculous. I'll repeat, Brandon Stokley once had over 1,000 yards and 10 TD's with an insane "yards per reception" average of 15.8 in one season with the Colts. The Colts pass scheme makes the receivers who they are, the receivers in no way make the Colts pass scheme what it is. Wayne is the one who would be a #3 receiver on most other teams.

Burress would be a #3 receiver on the Cowboys behind TO and who? On the Patriots behind Moss and Welker? Are you serious? Wes Welker is better than Burress? The Bengals? Houshmandzadeh is better than Burress? Denever?? What receiver on Denver is better than Burress let alone 2 receivers better than him? And other than Steve Smith, who's the other receiver on Carolina better than Burress?

People need to stop playing fantasy football to better clear their minds.

MDSteel15
12-20-2008, 12:45 AM
Santo made some bad mistakes before he took the field for the Steelers, even after his drafting.

I really haven't seen or heard about him in the news since then. So there's nothing in his actions or words that even resemble that of plax. He isn't getting a huge ego, he's playing the game, and he's staying out of trouble.

I worry not about Santo becoming like plax.

He just got arrested 4 weeks ago for posession and his court date isn't until after the season, bud. Plus, he has had a lot of drops this year. I say he either shapes up or we draft another WR after his contract is up.

MDSteel15
12-20-2008, 12:49 AM
Other than the Great All-Around Hines Ward, the best 2 WRs in the league are both named Johnson!!!
1. Calvin "Stuck on a shitty team" Johnson - Lions
2. Andre "Awesome when healthy" Johnson - Texans

NYC SteelersFan
12-20-2008, 02:56 AM
Other than the Great All-Around Hines Ward, the best 2 WRs in the league are both named Johnson!!!
1. Calvin "Stuck on a shitty team" Johnson - Lions
2. Andre "Awesome when healthy" Johnson - Texans

"Awsome when healthy" is true and a problem at the same time.

Let's wait a little more than 14 games before calling Calvin Johnson the best receiver in the league.

Texasteel
12-20-2008, 07:09 AM
Yeah Plax is a blooming idiot. I don't see Santo shooting himelf in the leg causing a hooker stampede.

I've never seen a hooker stampede. How do you get them to stop after they get going.

Texasteel
12-20-2008, 07:20 AM
He just got arrested 4 weeks ago for posession and his court date isn't until after the season, bud. Plus, he has had a lot of drops this year. I say he either shapes up or we draft another WR after his contract is up.

I can remember a couple times in my life that I could have been picked up for posession. Any other honest people here?

Sure he has had a few dropped balls, but he has also had some big catches. I think most people here forget how meny balls Plex dropped. I think I will stick with Holmes for a couple more years.

Fire Haley
12-20-2008, 09:10 AM
For the last time - he was never ARRESTED - he was cited, the court notice arrived in the mail - like a jaywalking ticket.

cubanstogie
12-20-2008, 10:02 AM
An arguement could be made for Johnson over Burress.



This is just an insane statement. Not a top 10 Receiver and a #3 receiver on a lot of teams? What on earth do you base this on other than strictly personal opinion?

And the fascination with Reggie Wayne as a top receiver in the NFL due to his fantasy football value is a bit ridiculous. I'll repeat, Brandon Stokley once had over 1,000 yards and 10 TD's with an insane "yards per reception" average of 15.8 in one season with the Colts. The Colts pass scheme makes the receivers who they are, the receivers in no way make the Colts pass scheme what it is. Wayne is the one who would be a #3 receiver on most other teams.

Burress would be a #3 receiver on the Cowboys behind TO and who? On the Patriots behind Moss and Welker? Are you serious? Wes Welker is better than Burress? The Bengals? Houshmandzadeh is better than Burress? Denever?? What receiver on Denver is better than Burress let alone 2 receivers better than him? And other than Steve Smith, who's the other receiver on Carolina better than Burress?

People need to stop playing fantasy football to better clear their minds.

Plaxico is an underachiever dude, he drops a lot of passes and takes a lot of plays off. There is more to being a receiver than being 6'6" with a big wing span. Plus he is a cancer. And yes I think Houshmandzadeh better, along with TO, Hines Ward, Moss, Harrison, Smith, Boldin, Fitz, Wayne, Brandon Marshall,Calvin Johnson,Andre Johnson, Jennings. Burress is a waste of talent. Plenty of other receivers who may not have the numbers but I would take over Burress in a heartbeat. Roy Williams,DeShaun Jackson, Eddie Royal,Welker will all have better careers than Plax. There is no doubt in my mind if Plaxico had half the work ethic as Jerry Rice he would be great, but the fact is he doesn't and has been a big time whiner and underachiever.

NYC SteelersFan
12-20-2008, 02:08 PM
Plaxico is an underachiever dude, he drops a lot of passes and takes a lot of plays off. There is more to being a receiver than being 6'6" with a big wing span. Plus he is a cancer. And yes I think Houshmandzadeh better, along with TO, Hines Ward, Moss, Harrison, Smith, Boldin, Fitz, Wayne, Brandon Marshall,Calvin Johnson,Andre Johnson, Jennings. Burress is a waste of talent. Plenty of other receivers who may not have the numbers but I would take over Burress in a heartbeat. Roy Williams,DeShaun Jackson, Eddie Royal,Welker will all have better careers than Plax. There is no doubt in my mind if Plaxico had half the work ethic as Jerry Rice he would be great, but the fact is he doesn't and has been a big time whiner and underachiever.

You'll never get an aruement out of me as far as that idiots attitude go, but his talent, when utilized, speaks for itself and is one of the best int he league. How often is it utilized? Well it won the Giants a Superbowl.

NYC SteelersFan
12-20-2008, 02:56 PM
A lot more because of Eli than Plaxico...

I disagree, Just continue to pay close attention to Eli right now without Burress, keep watching it.

Eli threw a ball straight into the arms of Asante Samuel who dropped what was probably his first dropped INT of the year and then Manning followed it up with a horrible pass 5 feet over a Giants receiver who was triple covered. Tyree's catch was second to the immaculate reception. The rest of the playoffs?

53 completions out of 85 attempts and 4 TD's in 3 games, Manning was just along for the ride and without Burress, which forced defense's to respect the Giant's pass scheme, Eli is dead meat and a sub-average QB like he has been for all 4 years prior to this one.

SteelCityKing
12-20-2008, 02:57 PM
the funniest thing about Santonio Holmes, he LOVES to party. and he parties at a local night club (Captain Loomins) in town (Clarion) and afterwards he eats at the local hotdog joint (Daddy's) down the street! haha!

the guy isn't a diva or a primadonna. he got pinched for stupid shit here and there, but he's no Vick, Lewis, or Plaxico. he's a great weapon for the greatest team in the world. he needs to work out some issues with drops, fumbles, and maybe his kick returns, but he's a solid player.

i have no beef with Holmes. =)

SteelCityKing
12-20-2008, 03:01 PM
I disagree, Just continue to pay close attention to Eli right now without Burress, keep watching it.

Eli threw a ball straight into the arms of Asante Samuel who dropped what was probably his first dropped INT of the year and then Manning followed it up with a horrible pass 5 feet over a Giants receiver who was triple covered. Tyree's catch was second to the immaculate reception. The rest of the playoffs?

53 completions out of 85 attempts and 4 TD's in 3 games, Manning was just along for the ride and without Burress, which forced defense's to respect the Giant's pass scheme, Eli is dead meat and a sub-average QB like he has been for all 4 years prior to this one.

Eli was one of the worst rookie picks EVER...his first 2 seasons were god awful. then he started to turn it around and step out of Peyton's shadow. but he is basically a wimp without his superstars. he's a struggling QB and he's RE-learning what it's like to be ontop and stay ontop. it sounds to me like his Super Bowl hangover is coming at a later date...a month and a half away from defending his title. what a pisser, eh? hah!

NYC SteelersFan
12-20-2008, 03:07 PM
Eli was one of the worst rookie picks EVER...his first 2 seasons were god awful. then he started to turn it around and step out of Peyton's shadow. but he is basically a wimp without his superstars. he's a struggling QB and he's RE-learning what it's like to be ontop and stay ontop. it sounds to me like his Super Bowl hangover is coming at a later date...a month and a half away from defending his title. what a pisser, eh? hah!

That pretty much sums it up for him, but I don't think he ever got out of Peyton's shadow, the media tried to PULL him out. They didn't fool me, career QB rating of 75 and a QB rating no higher than 77 for any single season, what a joke.