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OX1947
12-17-2008, 12:04 PM
I've been hearing a lot of sports writers in support of Big Ben as MVP this year. Even though guys like Brees and Rivers have had great numbers, theyre team records will more then likely cancel them out.

I believe Big Ben is 2 solid performances away while winning the last 2 from getting it.

Steelcitygal87
12-17-2008, 12:10 PM
I have been hearing that as well. They just talked about that very issue on ESPNs First Take. Skip Bayless would give the award to Ben right now, based on how he has lead the team from come from behind wins in the big games down the stretch. I do think if he does as well the next two games as he has lately, he would be one of the front runners for the award. I don't see how he could not be, unless they go by stats alone.

LambertIsGod58
12-17-2008, 12:11 PM
I've been hearing a lot of sports writers in support of Big Ben as MVP this year. Even though guys like Brees and Rivers have had great numbers, theyre team records will more then likely cancel them out.

I believe Big Ben is 2 solid performances away while winning the last 2 from getting it.

So wouldn't Kerry Collins be in the conversation?

steelreserve
12-17-2008, 12:16 PM
They'll probably still give it to Tom Brady for that great first half he played.

tony hipchest
12-17-2008, 12:16 PM
So wouldn't Kerry Collins be in the conversation?
because he sucks.

seriously... youre putting kerry in the same class as ben?

coach fisher had a candid conversation with pat kirwan a few weeks ago, explaining that they had only spent about 4 minutes this entire season in the 2 minute drill/offense. (because they always played with the lead).

how bout that last minute game winning drive by kerry against the lowly texans? :tt:

c'mon man!

xlchamps
12-17-2008, 12:17 PM
I have been hearing that as well. They just talked about that very issue on ESPNs First Take. Skip Bayless would give the award to Ben right now, based on how he has lead the team from come from behind wins in the big games down the stretch. I do think if he does as well the next two games as he has lately, he would be one of the front runners for the award, I don't see how he could not be, unless they go by stats alone.

Yea idk i was thinking Matt Ryan mvp this year. Look at what he has done, he brought the falcons from one of the worst teams in the league beside dolphins, to a playoff competitor. I think Matt Ryan and Chad Pennington are in front of Ben, just because those two brought the worst teams IN DA LEAGUE TO PLAYOFF COMPETITORS.


c'mon man!

Reminds me of the gingetr bread man commercial

43Hitman
12-17-2008, 12:23 PM
So wouldn't Kerry Collins be in the conversation?

I see your point here. If we as Steeler fans are going to say the Ben is deserving then we kinda need to at least consider what LIG58 is saying. Even though he is prolly just using this as a back-door slam on Ben. I will say this though, Ben has been doing it with out a decent line and a decent running game, whereas Collins has had the luxury of both.

xlchamps
12-17-2008, 12:30 PM
I see your point here. If we as Steeler fans are going to say the Ben is deserving then we kinda need to at least consider what LIG58 is saying. Even though he is prolly just using this as a back-door slam on Ben. I will say this though, Ben has been doing it with out a decent line and a decent running game, whereas Collins has had the luxury of both.

Look though man, i'll tell you guys what i told my friends, Kerry Collins isnt dat good, we seen him play bad when he plays against solid teams. Smash and dash been doing the most of the work in tenn.

rich4eagle
12-17-2008, 12:35 PM
If Ben takes them deep in the playoffs and has big end games like he has he can certainly win the MVP.

Warner
Manning
Favre
Eli
Culter
Romo
McNabb

are the QB competition with Warner and Peyton being the biggest.. The rest would have to play lights out from here to have consideration and both Manning and Warner would have to get real deep in the playoffs and Warner to the Bowl. I do not see other than a QB getting it at this time.

xlchamps
12-17-2008, 12:38 PM
If Ben takes them deep in the playoffs and has big end games like he has he can certainly win the MVP.

Warner
Manning
Favre
Eli
Culter
Romo
McNabb

are the QB competition with Warner and Peyton being the biggest.. The rest would have to play lights out from here to have consideration and both Manning and Warner would have to get real deep in the playoffs and Warner to the Bowl. I do not see other than a QB getting it at this time.

How can you not have Pennington or Ryan on your qb list

43Hitman
12-17-2008, 12:40 PM
Look though man, i'll tell you guys what i told my friends, Kerry Collins isnt dat good, we seen him play bad when he plays against solid teams. Smash and dash been doing the most of the work in tenn.

I agree. I think I said that at the end of my post. Maybe just not as directly as you just did.

tyler289
12-17-2008, 12:44 PM
How can you not have Pennington or Ryan on your qb list

Pennington? Ok, legitimate arugment there.

Ryan? ROY, but he should be nowhere near MVP. Michael Turner deserves it a lot more than Ryan.

rich4eagle
12-17-2008, 12:46 PM
How can you not have Pennington or Ryan on your qb list

Because neither of these teams are going deep in the playoffs if at all. If Miami loses to the Jets they do not make the playoffs. Atlanta likely will not make the playoffs.

Now if they both make it and if either gets in the Super Bowl and Pennington or Ryan plays lights out then yes indeed I should have included them. I do not think either of those two will play lights out..

In fact my short list is above.........Peyton Ben and Warner..........followed Eli or Romo as I think Warner will not get past round one................and Indy or Pitts represents the AFC and Dallas or the Giants or Carlolina represent the NFC

Since you want to include Ryan and Pennington a much wiser choice would be to included Delhomme whose team has a better chance of going deep

xlchamps
12-17-2008, 12:53 PM
Because neither of these teams are going deep in the playoffs if at all. If Miami loses to the Jets they do not make the playoffs. Atlanta likely will not make the playoffs.

Now if they both make it and if either gets in the Super Bowl and Pennington or Ryan plays lights out then yes indeed I should have included them. I do not think either of those two will play lights out..

In fact my short list is above.........Peyton Ben and Warner..........followed Eli or Romo as I think Warner will not get past round one................and Indy or Pitts represents the AFC and Dallas or the Giants or Carlolina represent the NFC

Since you want to include Ryan and Pennington a much wiser choice would be to included Delhomme whose team has a better chance of going deep

But look at what they dobne for their team, atlanta was 4-12 and dolphins 1-15 and look at them now, playof bound im tellin ya

TerribleSteelyMcBeam
12-17-2008, 01:24 PM
its merely wishful thinking, but not a reality.
i would love it but dont think its gonna happen

fansince'76
12-17-2008, 01:27 PM
How about Adrian Peterson? He has carried Minny's offense all season. Without him, they're more like 5-9 right now instead of 9-5.

DACEB
12-17-2008, 01:37 PM
I highly doubt it will go to any player not in the probowl.

Did Ben even get comeback player of the year after his near death crash and horrific season, to come back and break records?

rich4eagle
12-17-2008, 01:46 PM
But look at what they dobne for their team, atlanta was 4-12 and dolphins 1-15 and look at them now, playof bound im tellin ya

I understand they had major parts in turning around their teams. But the MVP will come from a team that goes deep or to or wins the Bowl. Just do not think they will get there.

As far as the input from another about the Pro Bowl I do not think that is a prerequisite....since it is a popularity contest and crunch time is the next six weeks...........

:tt03:

OX1947
12-17-2008, 01:53 PM
The safe choice is Peterson. I don't think anyone would argue that. However, the last 2 games will decide it. If the Viks lose the last 2 games despite his performance, it hurts him. If he does well and they win the division, he wins it hands down.

Big Ben has a chance to give the Steelers the 1 seed after injuries and a killer schedule. So if I had to choose, it has to be between Big Ben and Adrian Peterson. What they do as well is how their teams do, will decide it the last two weeks.

drizze99
12-17-2008, 01:57 PM
I have been hearing a lot of chatter on Sirius about Manning being MVP.

Funny thing is that in an interview with Dungy, they asked him if Manning deserves to be MVP this season and he said, I think James Harrison of the Steelers should be the MVP this season because before you even start game planning the Steelers, you have come up with a scheme to make sure he is always blocked. You have to game plan for Harrison and if you don't he will beat you single handily.

Hapa
12-17-2008, 01:59 PM
He'll need at least 4 TDs in the next to games for that to be even possible. And still I don't think that would do it.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
12-17-2008, 02:27 PM
Kerry Collins doesn't have to play the hardest schedule since 1978, nor does he have to deal with one of the worst lines and receiving corps in the league. 6 sacks all season! And we all know how mobile Collins is..... Without Ben, the Steelers would be around 6-8.

LambertIsGod58
12-17-2008, 02:29 PM
I see your point here. If we as Steeler fans are going to say the Ben is deserving then we kinda need to at least consider what LIG58 is saying. Even though he is prolly just using this as a back-door slam on Ben. I will say this though, Ben has been doing it with out a decent line and a decent running game, whereas Collins has had the luxury of both.

No, not a slam on Ben at all. I merely pointed out Collins b/c of Tennessee's record. If Ben is in the running, I would have to think Collin's is too. That's all.

LambertIsGod58
12-17-2008, 02:32 PM
How about Adrian Peterson? He has carried Minny's offense all season. Without him, they're more like 5-9 right now instead of 9-5.

I would have to agree....Peterson is the best RB in the league IMO. I just don't think that he'll get it b/c Minnesota isn't a favorite to win it all.

LambertIsGod58
12-17-2008, 02:34 PM
Kerry Collins doesn't have to play the hardest schedule since 1978, nor does he have to deal with one of the worst lines and receiving corps in the league. 6 sacks all season! And we all know how mobile Collins is..... Without Ben, the Steelers would be around 6-8.

we have one of the worst receiving corps in the league? I'd have to argue that one.

St33lersguy
12-17-2008, 02:38 PM
Kerry Collins doesn't have to play the hardest schedule since 1978, nor does he have to deal with one of the worst lines and receiving corps in the league. 6 sacks all season! And we all know how mobile Collins is..... Without Ben, the Steelers would be around 6-8.

Plus doesn't Big ben have 5 4th quarter comebacks. How many does Collins have?
And Ben isn't exactly playing with one of the most effective RB tandems to make it easy on him, I mean you got to admit our ground game hasn't been as effective as the tandem of Chris Johnson & Lendale White this year

LambertIsGod58
12-17-2008, 02:40 PM
:drink:Plus doesn't Big ben have 5 4th quarter comebacks. How many does Collins have?
And Ben isn't exactly playing with one of the most effective RB tandems to make it easy on him, I mean you got to admit our ground game hasn't been as effective as the tandem of Chris Johnson & Lendale White this year


If you look at the numbers, Collins and Ben have similar stats. I don't see how Collins wouldn't be in the running if Ben is.

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-17-2008, 02:48 PM
How about Adrian Peterson? He has carried Minny's offense all season. Without him, they're more like 5-9 right now instead of 9-5.

If MVP is based on your contribution to your team...then Matt Forte has to be a consideration....with his 1539 yards from scrimmage and 11 TD's (broke Gayle Sayers rookie record) the Bears would have won maybe 2-3 games.

I know he wont get it...but If I had a ballot it may have went to him this year.

LambertIsGod58
12-17-2008, 02:52 PM
If MVP is based on your contribution to your team...then Matt Forte has to be a consideration....with his 1539 yards from scrimmage and 11 TD's (broke Gayle Sayers rookie record) the Bears would have won maybe 2-3 games.

I know he wont get it...but If I had a ballot it may have went to him this year.

How about Slaton?

The Duke
12-17-2008, 02:58 PM
How about Adrian Peterson? He has carried Minny's offense all season. Without him, they're more like 5-9 right now instead of 9-5.

Yep, he or Forte

I had my doubts about him last year, but he's convinced me now. If they get into the playoffs( very likely) he's definitely the mvp

And forte has been carrying his team too, but he''ll probably be ROY

Ben? he deserves it in a way, but he won't get it. He may get a vote or two, lol

STEELtownHAVOX
12-17-2008, 03:22 PM
I highly doubt it will go to any player not in the probowl.

Did Ben even get comeback player of the year after his near death crash and horrific season, to come back and break records?

I don't really remember who got it last year, but I was thinking it was Randy Moss. Could be way off though.

rich4eagle
12-17-2008, 03:26 PM
Forte and Slaton have zero chance.........and I do believe last year MVP was Brady

Nor do I think Peterson has much chance unless Minny runs the table and goes Super

SteelersJW
12-17-2008, 03:52 PM
Does the fact that he isn't a pro bowler ruin his chances for MVP though? I can't imagine him getting it over a pro bowler.

cubanstogie
12-17-2008, 04:07 PM
Does the fact that he isn't a pro bowler ruin his chances for MVP though? I can't imagine him getting it over a pro bowler.

I was thinking the same thing. We would need some very open minded voters IMO for Ben to win. Without our 4 fourth quarter comebacks manufactured by Ben we would be 7-7 so I think you can make a case for him. Kurt Warner is a strong candidate and I think will win it. Bens numbers just aren't good enough,even though its not all about numbers. Some people can only look at stats.

cubanstogie
12-17-2008, 04:09 PM
we have one of the worst receiving corps in the league? I'd have to argue that one.

I am right behind you, I have been bashing Nate on occasion for his inconsistency but our receiving corps is solid. Not as dynamic as I would like but as soon as Sweed make s his move we will be there.

FSUBoo
12-17-2008, 10:44 PM
If you're gonna argue that James Harrison is in the MVP race then you have to argue that Joey Porter is too. What is the Dolphins D without him?

jjpro11
12-17-2008, 10:49 PM
Does the fact that he isn't a pro bowler ruin his chances for MVP though? I can't imagine him getting it over a pro bowler.

it would be a nice F U to the pro bowl voters

lilyoder6
12-17-2008, 11:41 PM
that would def shwow the pro-bowl voters... but ben will not win b/c he does not have the glamour stats

stlrtruck
12-18-2008, 08:08 AM
Last night on INSIDE THE NFL, Phil Simms mentioned that Big Ben should be MVP! Not that it means much but just thought I'd throw it out there.

jjpro11
12-18-2008, 08:35 AM
skip bayless and phil simms.. two of the biggest steelers haters around believe ben should be mvp. wow.

i will say one thing though.. with all these prime time games this year, the voters have seen him probably more than any other candidate and have been able to watch him orchestrate all of his game winning drives this season. i know tv coverage can be an factor in college football voting, it could be here too. so who knows.

The_WARDen
12-18-2008, 08:59 AM
There is no way that Ben deserves the MVP of the team much less the league.

:doh:

cubanstogie
12-18-2008, 10:09 AM
There is no way that Ben deserves the MVP of the team much less the league.

:doh:

There is no clear winner of league mvp this year IMO, I disagree about MVP of team though. You take away Harrison we still have a good D, you take away Ben and we have Zero offense. Case could be made for either.

TackleMeBen
12-18-2008, 10:16 AM
i am a huge ben fan, but i dont really think he deserves MVP. i think there are better candiates out there.

The_WARDen
12-18-2008, 10:26 AM
There is no clear winner of league mvp this year IMO, I disagree about MVP of team though. You take away Harrison we still have a good D, you take away Ben and we have Zero offense. Case could be made for either.

The offense is a liability right now and NO ONE on that side of the ball is worthy of the team MVP in my opinion.

If you take away Harrison or Troy it hurts their defense, I'd have to disagree with you. Last year was a good example as to what happens if Troy is not there.

The offense barely has a pulse now, could it be much worse?

xlchamps
12-18-2008, 10:35 AM
well if you look at it Big Ben has have quite of few comebacks win over the season. Jax, Bat x2, SD, and da bois. If you would ask around the league for this year who would you want as a qb? And i'll bet it'll b Big Ben, because he knows how to put away games. I'm pretty sure Ben owns the record for comebacks n da fourth since he's been in the nfl.

The_WARDen
12-18-2008, 10:40 AM
well if you look at it Big Ben has have quite of few comebacks win over the season. Jax, Bat x2, SD, and da bois. If you would ask around the league for this year who would you want as a qb? And i'll bet it'll b Big Ben, because he knows how to put away games. I'm pretty sure Ben owns the record for comebacks n da fourth since he's been in the nfl.

I'd counter that if the offense participated during the first 3 quarters, they wouldn't need all those comebacks.

Ben is a very good clutch player but I can't consider anyone on that side of the ball fro team MVP much less MVP of the league.

Steeldude
12-18-2008, 10:46 AM
james harrison deserves it before BR.

Dino 6 Rings
12-18-2008, 11:22 AM
The only MVP I care about is the MVP of the Super Bowl.

steelreserve
12-18-2008, 11:34 AM
There is no clear winner of league mvp this year IMO, I disagree about MVP of team though. You take away Harrison we still have a good D, you take away Ben and we have Zero offense. Case could be made for either.

I don't know about "zero offense". We've seemed to do pretty well when Leftwich has been in there. Not that I think he's a better quarterback, or that I'd want him in there with the game on the line -- just that we've done an adequate job with our backup.

I still think the MVP should go to Bernard Pollard of the Chiefs, for his excellent work in Week 1.

TackleMeBen
12-18-2008, 11:35 AM
I don't know about "zero offense". We've seemed to do pretty well when Leftwich has been in there. Not that I think he's a better quarterback, or that I'd want him in there with the game on the line -- just that we've done an adequate job with our backup.

I still think the MVP should go to Bernard Pollard of the Chiefs, for his excellent work in Week 1.
i know you wouldnt be talking about taking out last years MVP winner would ya????:chuckle:

Dino 6 Rings
12-18-2008, 11:44 AM
I think, when looking at the MVP, it should go to the guy that if he wasn't on the team, it would obviously fail horribly.

Case in point, Tom Brady won it last year, yet without him, his team is doing well. So that makes you wonder if last years choice wasn't a bad one. Maybe Randy was the difference on that offense more than he got credit for, or even Wes Welker.

So lets look around the league.

Would the Falcons be as good without Turner? Would the Vikes be as good without Peterson? Would the Dolphins be as good without Pennigton? Those are all people I'd look at closely.

Dino 6 Rings
12-18-2008, 11:46 AM
Maybe Drew Brees, because he doesn't have the weapons that Kurt Warner does and yet he's putting up disgusting numbers.

However he has lost a couple games at key moments with Ints. That's not MVP stuff.

TackleMeBen
12-18-2008, 11:47 AM
I think, when looking at the MVP, it should go to the guy that if he wasn't on the team, it would obviously fail horribly.

Case in point, Tom Brady won it last year, yet without him, his team is doing well. So that makes you wonder if last years choice wasn't a bad one.

So lets look around the league.

Would the Falcons be as good without Turner? Would the Vikes be as good without Peterson? Would the Dolphins be as good without Pennigton? Those are all people I'd look at closely.
i doubt the falcons would be good without turner. he and ryan have turned that team around.

i am not sure about the dolphins. i mean pennington sucked last year with the jets.

revefsreleets
12-18-2008, 11:51 AM
It also matters how well the team does. Let's face it, they aren't going to be selecting an MVP from an 8-8 team.

Dino 6 Rings
12-18-2008, 11:51 AM
i doubt the falcons would be good without turner. he and ryan have turned that team around.

i am not sure about the dolphins. i mean pennington sucked last year with the jets.

Great point, maybe Pennington can get 'come back player of the year'

I think AP at Minnesota has to be the MVP. He's a monster and without him, the Vikings wouldn't be sniffing the playoffs.

steelreserve
12-18-2008, 12:00 PM
i know you wouldnt be talking about taking out last years MVP winner would ya????:chuckle:

You've got to think about the big picture -- I defy you to come up with anyone else who's not only helped his own team win, but also given several other teams a shot at the playoffs. That play helped out half the teams in the AFC! :laughing:

TackleMeBen
12-18-2008, 12:01 PM
Great point, maybe Pennington can get 'come back player of the year'

I think AP at Minnesota has to be the MVP. He's a monster and without him, the Vikings wouldn't be sniffing the playoffs.
it also helps that the vikings play in a pretty weak conference. .i mean they are in the same conference as the lions, bears, and packers.

I am hoping that the dolphins find a way to win the AFCE just to stick it to the jets who kicked him to the curb.

its hard to say who will get the MVP this year. i mean warner is having a great year, but he has some great WR to throw too. and brees is just putting up numbers like you wouldnt believe, but has been a little farvish(brett farve) at times..with making a few bad throws.

TackleMeBen
12-18-2008, 12:02 PM
You've got to think about the big picture -- I defy you to come up with anyone else who's not only helped his own team win, but also given several other teams a shot at the playoffs. That play helped out half the teams in the AFC! :laughing:
you are right. i mean we wouldnt be fighting for homefield advantage if pollard hadnt taken out brady. :wink02: and i dont wish harm on any player, but it couldnt have happen to a nicer guy :chuckle:

Polamalu43
12-18-2008, 06:27 PM
I've been hearing a lot of sports writers in support of Big Ben as MVP this year. Even though guys like Brees and Rivers have had great numbers, theyre team records will more then likely cancel them out.

I believe Big Ben is 2 solid performances away while winning the last 2 from getting it.

Dude ben is not gonna get the MVP. is much as i would like that, it's not gonna happen.

TackleMeBen
12-19-2008, 08:05 AM
with the way peyton played last night. he probably has it, unless someone just has a monster game this weekend. as much as i would like to see ben get it, i dont think he is as deserving as some others.

GridironWarrior
12-19-2008, 08:07 AM
Ben as MVP?? You must be joking. No way he deserves that. Not this year.

jjpro11
12-19-2008, 08:47 AM
with the way peyton played last night. he probably has it, unless someone just has a monster game this weekend. as much as i would like to see ben get it, i dont think he is as deserving as some others.

yeah.. he pretty much sealed the deal barring a 300 yard game from adrian peterson.

stillers4me
12-19-2008, 09:37 AM
Ben as league MVP, no way.

Superbowl MVP. Just maybe.

TackleMeBen
12-19-2008, 09:51 AM
Ben as league MVP, no way.

Superbowl MVP. Just maybe.
i think you might be on to something stillers..lol

unless he has another SB game like the last one..lol...:chuckle:

lilyoder6
12-19-2008, 12:26 PM
there are a lot of good candidates this yr 4 mvp..

TackleMeBen
12-19-2008, 06:24 PM
Not to be a Ben hater, because he is the man. I think there are other people who deserve it more. Doesn't even have to be a QB. Honestly, I'd like to see silver back get it.
the only thing with that is dont they have their own award.defensive player of the year?

43Hitman
12-19-2008, 08:40 PM
No dude, its just that defensive players rarely get the league MVP award. Only two defensive players have gotten it. I hope James harrison makes it #3 so that theres a slot left in the DPY award for Troy to grab :tt:

TackleMeBen is a Dudette.:thumbsup:

stillers4me
12-19-2008, 08:43 PM
TackleMeBen is a Dudette.:thumbsup:

With a name like "TackleMeBen", I certainly hope so. :wink02:

And I bet Ben hopes so, too. :chuckle:

SteelCityKingsVP
12-19-2008, 08:44 PM
Its time to be serious here people! I love the Steelers and Big Ben....But, he is NOT the leagues MVP this year. Especially if MVP is decided by the numbers.

SteelCityKing
12-19-2008, 09:12 PM
seriously, i'd love to see it happen, but Ben doesn't really have what it takes to snag this title. i think he'll need another rookie year or a statistically better Super Bowl year...but that'd take a miracle.

i started a thread about Ben being a future Hall of Famer and everyone seems to think that it'd take alot of years and alot of awards and records to do that. i agree...but i agree it'll take a record year to grab an MVP. but hey...i have faith. =)

SteelCityKing
12-19-2008, 09:19 PM
On top of all of this, we've had players that have had a more profound effect on the steelers winning games than Ben. Nothing against #7 tho, we still love the big man :tt:

i agree. -- Ben is good, but not MVP worthy at this point in the season or his career. he needs to work on alot of fundamentals and come out guns blazin'. i'm almost afraid IF we win the Super Bowl that the team will have another hangover and Ben will wreck in a hotair ballon or a go-kart and have a kidney transplant..then next thing you know...we'll be the Browns! LOL!