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View Full Version : Lets be realistic..........................


Ricco Suavez
12-21-2008, 04:36 PM
Boy have i read that a lot on this board after every loss( and even some wins) This statement ranges from Ben holds the ball too long, he makes bad decisions, Willie needs to be benched, we need to run the no-huddle, fire Arians, fire Tomlin, go to five receivers, load up with TE's and full backfield. If you take time to read most of the posts both positive and negative you will realize that there probably more suggestions than are problems.WE knew coming in this season that we had one of the weaker lines in the league. What I think this coaching staff has done with this offense and this line is remarkable. YES read again, I said remarkable. We need help up front. Today i saw a very good O-line against the best defense I have seen in some time, and they made that defense look average. I saw our line against a good defense that did not blitz constantly put pressure on our QB and repeatedly stop runs for no gain or losses. We can win in the playoffs, but it will take the defense playing at the same high level it has and it will require Ben making few or no mistakes(unlike today). It did not go unnoticed by me that Ben had the longest streak of his career with no INTs, That just happened to coincide with our current win streak. Now I am not drinking the kool-aid but there is no need beating the same topics after every loss. Our problems on offense will continue until we can shore up our line. Our coaching staff is doing a great job with what they have to work with. As I have said in previous posts this is not the Steelers of the past where we line up and pound the other team. We also cannot abandon the run and become one dimensional. That is what basically happened today with the Titans rushing only four and dropping seven. We have had a great season so far, I look forward to playing the Browns and then a week to rest up before we buckle down to the real season. As always A Steeler fan win or lose.

chatman
12-21-2008, 04:40 PM
you have to be joking....right--good coaching--remarkable???????????????

rowedf
12-21-2008, 04:43 PM
Well said Ricco.

I agree with most of what you said and would like to interject that if you look at Ben's streak of no pics .... look at the competition too ! :) It was THE BEST in the NFL!

My favorite quote from the players "it is what it is" and that's exactly how I feel about Ben. He makes plays from holding on to the ball and he gets sacked sometimes .... I really think he makes MORE plays than gets sacked if you compare the two.

I honestly don't think the "urgency" was there today from the players ... I think the division was wrapped up, had home field advantage for one game, and they were content with that . To me, that 's more on coaching to make sure those guys were desperate, which I just didn't see. I KNOW how Cowher and guys like Porter would get the guys all ready for the next game and playoffs after seeing L. White do the towel stomping and grinding into the ground ... now I wait to see how Tomlin and some of the other leaders on the team use that for motivation.

Anyone remember when I think it was Ernest Byner (someone from the browns) threw the towel down on the 50 yardline after the coin toss and stomped it into the ground ?

fansince'76
12-21-2008, 04:45 PM
you have to be joking....right--good coaching--remarkable???????????????

Wow, dude. That has to be the most profound first post in this history of this board, really, I'm not kidding. Can't wait to be blessed with more nuggets of wisdom like that. :coffee:

NYC SteelersFan
12-21-2008, 04:54 PM
Boy have i read that a lot on this board after every loss( and even some wins) This statement ranges from Ben holds the ball too long, he makes bad decisions, Willie needs to be benched, we need to run the no-huddle, fire Arians, fire Tomlin, go to five receivers, load up with TE's and full backfield. If you take time to read most of the posts both positive and negative you will realize that there probably more suggestions than are problems.WE knew coming in this season that we had one of the weaker lines in the league. What I think this coaching staff has done with this offense and this line is remarkable. YES read again, I said remarkable. We need help up front. Today i saw a very good O-line against the best defense I have seen in some time, and they made that defense look average. I saw our line against a good defense that did not blitz constantly put pressure on our QB and repeatedly stop runs for no gain or losses. We can win in the playoffs, but it will take the defense playing at the same high level it has and it will require Ben making few or no mistakes(unlike today). It did not go unnoticed by me that Ben had the longest streak of his career with no INTs, That just happened to coincide with our current win streak. Now I am not drinking the kool-aid but there is no need beating the same topics after every loss. Our problems on offense will continue until we can shore up our line. Our coaching staff is doing a great job with what they have to work with. As I have said in previous posts this is not the Steelers of the past where we line up and pound the other team. We also cannot abandon the run and become one dimensional. That is what basically happened today with the Titans rushing only four and dropping seven. We have had a great season so far, I look forward to playing the Browns and then a week to rest up before we buckle down to the real season. As always A Steeler fan win or lose.

23rd in the league in the rush
17th in the league in the pass
24th in the league in total offense

That does not equate to the coaching staff doing a great job with what it has to work with. I'm sorry, but the o-line is NOT THAT BAD. They are pretty damn bad, but NOT THAT BAD. Everyone says the star players and coaching staff are the easy scapegoats. I think the o-line is the easy scapegoat cause most of us couldn't pick their faces out of a lineup (except for Colon, everyone knows what Colon looks like). Calling out star players and coaches means you don't care who you win with, as long as you win. Leftwich can become the starter, LeBeau can become the head coach, Dion Sanders can become the offensive coordinator and LamberIsGod58 can become the quarterback's coach and I would still root for the team.

The reality is that this offense has underacheived since the 3rd game of the season and has never improved or corrected any problems since then. The coaches have rode the coattails of an extraordinary defense all season and today it came around to bite them in the a$$ just as it did in every single one of our other losses. Your offense has to be CAPABLE of winning a game in case the defense has the audacity to give up moore than 13 points in a single game.

I can only hope we can ride the coattails of the defense for 3 straight games AFTER next week.

Ricco Suavez
12-21-2008, 05:26 PM
23rd in the league in the rush
17th in the league in the pass
24th in the league in total offense

That does not equate to the coaching staff doing a great job with what it has to work with. I'm sorry, but the o-line is NOT THAT BAD. They are pretty damn bad, but NOT THAT BAD. Everyone says the star players and coaching staff are the easy scapegoats. I think the o-line is the easy scapegoat cause most of us couldn't pick their faces out of a lineup (except for Colon, everyone knows what Colon looks like). Calling out star players and coaches means you don't care who you win with, as long as you win. Leftwich can become the starter, LeBeau can become the head coach, Dion Sanders can become the offensive coordinator and LamberIsGod58 can become the quarterback's coach and I would still root for the team.

The reality is that this offense has underacheived since the 3rd game of the season and has never improved or corrected any problems since then. The coaches have rode the coattails of an extraordinary defense all season and today it came around to bite them in the a$$ just as it did in every single one of our other losses. Your offense has to be CAPABLE of winning a game in case the defense has the audacity to give up moore than 13 points in a single game.

I can only hope we can ride the coattails of the defense for 3 straight games AFTER next week.

Our line not that bad, well this time I will side with people like espn's clayton not to mention other experts form the sporting press. I do not take everything they say to heart but when EVERYONE of those "experts" say we have a sub-par line and I see it with my own eyes then I will have to disagree with your POV.

T.Richardson
12-21-2008, 05:36 PM
Positive thing about the offense. 300+ yards. They moved the ball.

tyler289
12-21-2008, 05:40 PM
Let's be realistic, you need to learn what a new paragraph is

Ricco Suavez
12-21-2008, 05:50 PM
Let's be realistic, you need to learn what a new paragraph is

Noted professor.

millwalldavey
12-21-2008, 05:57 PM
Today was a very strange game. The offense - barring the TO's - carried the team while the defense was on its heels. In all honesty, the D has to be getting tired after doing this for 14 games in a row,especially the last 8 games.

My gripe is with Arians and the offensive coaching staff. I know football must evolve but the bread and butter will always be the running game, especially for the Steelers. When you call an extremly unsuccesful pass play on 3rd and 2, when you could just pound it and have a higher success rate, there is something wrong.

The O-Line is MUCH improved since game 1 this year. That said, they are still pretty bad. The pass protection has improved slightly, at a cost to the run blocking.

Willie P. has lost a step. I really do not think he will ever be the same. Nice to know Rashard is waiting for next year. Moore is probably the best free agent pickup EVER for us.

Ben is a warrior and champion. I feel sometimes he tries too hard to make things happen. I think he wants a TD everytime he throws which is what every great QB should think. But Ben second and third guesses himself too much and leads himself into problems.

The recievers and tight ends are top notch. Only gripe is Nate has WAAAAYYY to many drops.

This isn't hating. This is stating what I feel. Of course I'm gonna piss and moan after a loss in a huge game like this and talk about what I think needs to be done. Protest is the highest form of patriotism.

I'll be there forever if we are 16-0 or 0-16. The playoffs are gonna be a great ride and I have faith that we will come out with #6! But there is a LOT of work to do!

stlrtruck
12-21-2008, 06:59 PM
Why is it everytime we lose, people want to blame specific players or coaches? How is that very few people mention the fact that regardless of well a coach - coaches, the players have to EXECUTE!!!

Today, what I saw was a lack of execution on both sides of the ball and we were in the game for most of it. It leaves a lot to be desired but at the same time we are still the #2 seed in the AFC, we have a BYE week, and our players are still relatively healthy!

HERE WE GO STEELERS!

GodofGridiron
12-21-2008, 10:48 PM
We really need to work on: LEARNING HOW TO SET UP AND THROW A SCREEN PASS. I mean, i can count on one hand how many screen passes we've executed that gained ANY yards.

And my gawd......how many times did we run to the right this game. Of course VB and Hainesworth were absent but we ran that pony into the ground........can we ever do what the defense least expects ? I swear we run the same 10 plays every game. No creativity. No adjustments.

NYC SteelersFan
12-21-2008, 11:32 PM
Why is it everytime we lose, people want to blame specific players or coaches? How is that very few people mention the fact that regardless of well a coach - coaches, the players have to EXECUTE!!!

Today, what I saw was a lack of execution on both sides of the ball and we were in the game for most of it. It leaves a lot to be desired but at the same time we are still the #2 seed in the AFC, we have a BYE week, and our players are still relatively healthy!

HERE WE GO STEELERS!

Complaining about player execution is the equivalent of saying the players suck. Who specifically? Who is not executing? Call them out.

eafratitpm3
12-22-2008, 12:15 AM
Ok here's being realistic, we are 11-4, if the Defense played the way they did today early in the year we could easily be 3-12. We are in the playoffs with a 2nd round home game. Given the fact that we had the hardest schedule in NFL history coming into the year I will take it.

stlrtruck
12-22-2008, 08:47 AM
Complaining about player execution is the equivalent of saying the players suck. Who specifically? Who is not executing? Call them out.

O-line didn't execute well - there were some plays that defensive players went untouched and the RB got hit in the backfield just as he got the ball
WR's didn't run routes well
FWP didn't explode into the hole
Ben didn't hold on to the ball when hit

But I digress, this is a team sport and it takes all 53 men to win or lose a game. I think this beating was timely and will hopefully get everyone's heads screwed back on for the playoffs - just tight enough to get back to Tennessee and make them pay!!

The_WARDen
12-22-2008, 09:16 AM
Realistically, it was proven yesterday that if the defense has an off day the offense is unable to shoulder the load. That's the reality, this offense is pathethic and it starts with the Oline.

Tennessee had rookies and an undrafted free agent on the Dline and they owned the Steelers Oline. It's just embarassing...

As for next week, I give the defense the game off as they've earned it and this team will need them at 100% to even have a chance to play late into January.
The offense? They play until they figure it out...if that takes all game then so be it.

FacemeIke
12-22-2008, 09:45 AM
[QUOTE=stlrtruck;504098]Why is it everytime we lose, people want to blame specific players or coaches? How is that very few people mention the fact that regardless of well a coach - coaches, the players have to EXECUTE!!!
QUOTE]

I get so sick of hearing this "the players must execute" excuse for the offense. The fact of the matter is that we have a very talented QB, 3 very talented WRs, one of the top 5 TEs in the league, and a RB who has lost a step but is still more then capable. I think that the OLine has a lot to do with our offensive struggles, but we have more then enough talent to compensate for the OLine and get the job done, but they are not being put into the best possible position to be productive. I don't think Arians will be back next year and I hope that he's not.

With that being said, I think our Defense can still carry us to the Super Bowl this year, and I may be delusional but each week I wait for our offense to some how make a miracle turn around.

SteelerFanInCA
12-22-2008, 09:56 AM
Looks like the boo birds are out again.

stlrtruck
12-22-2008, 11:34 AM
[QUOTE=stlrtruck;504098]Why is it everytime we lose, people want to blame specific players or coaches? How is that very few people mention the fact that regardless of well a coach - coaches, the players have to EXECUTE!!!
QUOTE]

I get so sick of hearing this "the players must execute" excuse for the offense. The fact of the matter is that we have a very talented QB, 3 very talented WRs, one of the top 5 TEs in the league, and a RB who has lost a step but is still more then capable. I think that the OLine has a lot to do with our offensive struggles, but we have more then enough talent to compensate for the OLine and get the job done, but they are not being put into the best possible position to be productive. I don't think Arians will be back next year and I hope that he's not.

With that being said, I think our Defense can still carry us to the Super Bowl this year, and I may be delusional but each week I wait for our offense to some how make a miracle turn around.

You get tired of hearing "execution" and I get tired of hearing "Fire this guy" or "Bench this guy" or "This guy sucks" When truly it is about execution. Or maybe it's just the fact that over the last few years we were spoiled with the offensive line we had and they got it done. And the last two years we've seen that wrecked.

And like you I wait each week waiting for the offense to turn it around and lift the weight off the defense's back.

Steel12
12-22-2008, 11:41 AM
Let's be realistic...Ben is not as good as that contract we gave him!

NYC SteelersFan
12-22-2008, 03:34 PM
O-line didn't execute well - there were some plays that defensive players went untouched and the RB got hit in the backfield just as he got the ball
WR's didn't run routes well
FWP didn't explode into the hole
Ben didn't hold on to the ball when hit

But I digress, this is a team sport and it takes all 53 men to win or lose a game. I think this beating was timely and will hopefully get everyone's heads screwed back on for the playoffs - just tight enough to get back to Tennessee and make them pay!!

ALL the WR's did not run routes badly
FWP exploded down the toilet as he has done for the majority of the season
Roethlisberger suffered another meteor shower of defenders due to the teams inability to counter blitz's

I give you credit for naming names but blaming the WHOLE team for not EXECUTING is you just being positive, which I really can't saying anything bad about. But I will tell you this, one player can cause the other 52 players to crumble like dominoes. Even more so with ease when it is only 11 guys on the field. One player can easily cause the collapse of the other 10 players. That is the beauty and tragedy with team sports. Although this is the ultimate team sport in my opinion, one guy can still turn 10 good guys into crap. one rotten apple spoils a bunch is true in all facets of life. And unlike other sports, the coaches are definitely part of the bunch. A baseball team or basketball team can take the field and win without a single instruction from coaches. Football players are 11, larger than average, men who would end up running around like headless chickens without coaches.

Realistically, it was proven yesterday that if the defense has an off day the offense is unable to shoulder the load.

That is exactly what was proven yesterday

Makaveli
12-22-2008, 05:28 PM
Here's the "reality",...how long did anyone think the Defense was going to be able to defeat not only the opposing unit, but Roethlisberger as well,....every week ?!

There is no way to spin this,......

Against the Eagles, Rats, Jags, Giants, Redskins, Colts, Chargers, Patriots, Cowboys, Rats,Titans,(anyone not as hapless as the bengals, browns and texans).......12 td's 14 picks, and 11 fumbles(7 lost).

You can keep blaming the O-line,Arians, Willie, Coach Cowher, the old lady driving the car he took a header into or Tomlin making them "practice to hard",......but anyone whom does so isn't pulling the wool over anyone's eyes whom has watched this dude play since his rookie year.

He's(Ben) "Playground "dude,....simply put

NYC SteelersFan
12-22-2008, 05:43 PM
He's(Ben) "Playground "dude,....simply put

Whatever he is, in 5 seasons he has had 3 seasons with a 98 or higher QB rating. The other 2 seasons? League average or better. One of those league average years he probably shouldnt have been on the field for most of the season but he was. There is no one available this year or next who is better than him. And more than 3/4 of the league's QB's are not better than him.

So whatever he is, it works, but like any other QB he needs REAL offensive weapons and a coach and coordinator to properly organize him and the offensive weapons to work with one another, effectively or efficiently, and definitely consistently.

Hines Ward is great, Hines Ward is not an OFFENSIVE WEAPON. Willie Parker was good, Willie Parker is not anymore. Holmes and Washington are good 50% of the time. The o-line is not good and the coaches have compounded the offensive problems, making it worse and worse with every game we played this season.

stlrtruck
12-22-2008, 09:31 PM
ALL the WR's did not run routes badly
FWP exploded down the toilet as he has done for the majority of the season
Roethlisberger suffered another meteor shower of defenders due to the teams inability to counter blitz's

I give you credit for naming names but blaming the WHOLE team for not EXECUTING is you just being positive, which I really can't saying anything bad about. But I will tell you this, one player can cause the other 52 players to crumble like dominoes. Even more so with ease when it is only 11 guys on the field. One player can easily cause the collapse of the other 10 players. That is the beauty and tragedy with team sports. Although this is the ultimate team sport in my opinion, one guy can still turn 10 good guys into crap. one rotten apple spoils a bunch is true in all facets of life. And unlike other sports, the coaches are definitely part of the bunch. A baseball team or basketball team can take the field and win without a single instruction from coaches. Football players are 11, larger than average, men who would end up running around like headless chickens without coaches.


And that's what I've been trying to say. It's not just a play here or play there - it's a player. It doesn't matter if it's one player on one play during STs, one player on a defensive play, or one offensive player on an offensive play and it all rotates. Eventually you get a combination of the team not executing and it comes back to haunt the team in the form of an "L". Personally, from my fan persepective, if I give the team the W, I give the team the L. Not pointing out the specific players but the team or unit. In yesterday's case it was the whole team. Although the offensive linemen stant out the most.

markymarc
12-23-2008, 07:04 AM
The o-line is not good and the coaches have compounded the offensive problems, making it worse and worse with every game we played this season.

These are the 2 areas killing the team offensively right now. Our OL is dreadful and Arians is just a guy stealing a paycheck from the Steelers right now.