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SteelersMongol
12-24-2008, 11:00 PM
LONDON, England (CNN) -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's upcoming Christmas message will say Jesus would be a defender of the oppressed if he were alive today.

"Jesus the Son of Mary is the standard-bearer of justice, of love for our fellow human beings, of the fight against tyranny, discrimination and injustice," Ahmadinejad will say, according to a preliminary text of remarks he is planning to deliver in a message to be broadcast Thursday -- Christmas Day -- on British TV.

The fiery Iranian leader, who has angered Western countries with his sharp comments on Israel, nuclear power, and the role of the United States in the world, will be delivering the Alternative Christmas Message on Britain's Channel 4.

The network, which calls the event a "traditional alternative to The Queen's Christmas Day broadcast," issued the preliminary text.

The thrust of his words and the overall message contained religiously inclusive rhetoric, such as his congratulating "the followers of Abrahamic faiths, especially the followers of Jesus Christ, and the people of Britain." And his words conjured a hopeful future.

But some of his remarks reflected Ahmadinejad's trademark bluntness.

"If Christ was on earth today undoubtedly he would stand with the people in opposition to bullying, ill-tempered and expansionist powers," the text says.

"If Christ was on earth today undoubtedly he would hoist the banner of justice and love for humanity to oppose warmongers, occupiers, terrorists and bullies the world over.

"If Christ was on earth today undoubtedly he would fight against the tyrannical policies of prevailing global economic and political systems, as he did in his lifetime."

The alternative address tradition, which began in 1993, has included remarks from the Rev. Jesse Jackson, an injured Afghan war veteran, a survivor of the attacks of September 11, 2001, and Marge from the television show "The Simpsons."

The network notes that "relations between Iran and the West" will play "a central role in world affairs" in the coming year. The address -- which won't be broadcast opposite the queen's message -- will be preceded by a "short introduction" that will put the leader's "appearance in context."

"As the leader of one of the most powerful states in the Middle East, President Ahmadinejad's views are enormously influential. As we approach a critical time in international relations, we are offering our viewers an insight into an alternative world view," said Dorothy Byrne, head of news and current affairs.

"Channel 4 has devoted more airtime to examining Iran than any other broadcaster and this message continues a long tradition of offering a different perspective on the world around us."

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/24/ahmadinejad.christmas.message/index.html

So Jesus would be with the Iranians ...? :laughing: This man is 1 heck of a entertaining fool. :chuckle:

SteelCurtain7
12-24-2008, 11:26 PM
When Jesu returns, He'll be bringing the vengeance of heaven on those who oppress and terrorize...like Mahmoud Iloveademonicjihad. :headbang:

Dr. Steel
12-25-2008, 12:14 AM
Ahmadinejad does know Jesus was a Jew. Can somebody just put this fool in a wood chipper..

millwalldavey
12-25-2008, 06:56 PM
Last I checked this supposed Jesus was a man of peace and brotherhood.

A man like that I do not think would bring "vengeance" on anyone. Accept those who may take and bend his teachings.

SteelCurtain7
12-25-2008, 09:38 PM
Not sure which Bible version you're digging that up from, Davey.

When Jesus returns, He brings with Him all the armies of heaven to wipe all His foes off the face of the earth (see Revelation, especially chapter 19).

Jesus isn't some peace-loving hippie...He's the one Who "treads the winepress of the wrath of Almighty God." :rock:

Dino 6 Rings
12-26-2008, 08:40 AM
Jesus would stand with the Iranians...and the Turks...and the Jews...and the Indonesians...and the Nigerians...and the Brazilians...and the Italians, the Germans, the Chinese, the Japanese, the Indians, the Russians, the Canadians, the French, the Greeks, the Ethiopians, the Congolese, the Australians, the Mexicans, the Spanish, the English, the Liberians, the Uzbekians, the Serbians, the Persians, the Ottomans, the Arabs, Jews, Whites, Blacks, Browns, Yellows, Reds and everyone else in the world.

See that's the thing about Jesus. He loved and still does Love EVERYONE.

stlrtruck
12-26-2008, 09:12 AM
See that's the thing about Jesus. He loved and still does Love EVERYONE.

And that's God's truth!

millwalldavey
12-26-2008, 11:25 AM
Dino, that was great. I'm an Athiest, but even I know that about the man called Jesus.

So many people who fly his banner just paint him with red, white and blue and apply a lot of American standards to him.

They are no different than the Muslims most of them are so terrified of.

Another big reason I feel the way I do.

SteelCurtain7
12-26-2008, 06:53 PM
I'm not sure who you're referring to with these "red, white, and blue" comments...perhaps a strawman, back-handed swipe at me. I never said such a thing.

While "God is love," He is also the Judge, Who will judge everyone "according to what he has done." For those who blow Him off, and refuse to allow Him to be Lord of their lives, He has no choice but to allow them to go to hell. Like CS Lewis (former atheist, who wised up and got down to business with Mr. God) said, "There are two sorts of people. One who says to God, 'Thy will be done'; and those to whom He will say, 'THY will be done'." :rock:

God is holy, and cannot tolerate the presence of sin. But He also gives mankind the ability to make free-will choices of where they will spend eternity. He has also provided a way out through the cross. No man who winds up in hell will wonder why he's there. :rolleyes:

Sorry if that's too much for those of you who have adopted this religious version of political correctness, but that's the way it is.

SteelCityKing
12-26-2008, 06:58 PM
wow...i guess you guys like to talk about everything and i mean EVERYTHING on these boards! haha!

jeez...talking about God and Jesus on Steeler boards. sounds like fun to me. haha

i'm not a hater and i'm not a follower of the word, the book, and the man. i'm just saying it's weird to read a post about Jesus on the Steeler boards. haha!

SteelCurtain7
12-26-2008, 07:03 PM
Been a while since I've had a good old-fashioned debate on the subject too. Over on another board, we discuss similar things, but they're usually with likeminded individuals. ;)

stlrtruck
12-26-2008, 08:44 PM
At some point every man, woman, and child will stand in the presence of Jesus Christ. The question remains will it be for eternity or only to receive the judgement of eternal damnation in hell!

Preacher
12-26-2008, 09:14 PM
If I may say a word or two about this...

1. In Jesus lifetime, there were occupiers and expansionist powers. He NEVER said a word about them, except to give them what is owed them, taxes. Don't forget, these are the same powers that were destroying both the Jews and the church. So if Jesus did speak again Rome, it would have been referred to.

2. Jesus spoke of both mercy and judgment, heaven and hell, peace and war. At the heart of His message was that it isn't for the individual to bring judgment on another, nor is it for an individual to seek vengeance, that is the domain of God who can, will, and does do it with divine judgment, wisdom, and righteousness.

Where many Christians make the mistake (and I have to guard against it myself), is that we try to take those roles on ourselves.

millwalldavey
12-28-2008, 01:26 PM
I'm not sure who you're referring to with these "red, white, and blue" comments...perhaps a strawman, back-handed swipe at me. I never said such a thing.

I don't do backhanded swipes. I come out and tell you if its directed at you. It was not. Just a general observation on a great many people in this country who think "god is on our side" and no one elses. If that includes you, then consider it a comment made toward you.

While "God is love," He is also the Judge, Who will judge everyone "according to what he has done." For those who blow Him off, and refuse to allow Him to be Lord of their lives, He has no choice but to allow them to go to hell. Like CS Lewis (former atheist, who wised up and got down to business with Mr. God) said, "There are two sorts of people. One who says to God, 'Thy will be done'; and those to whom He will say, 'THY will be done'." :rock:

So are all of the other gods of all of the other religions, if you do not listen to the Christian spin on the rest of them. Once again I bring back my "who do you like, Yankees or the Red Sox" comment. Mind you, a great deal of other religions are just as guilty of spi.


Sorry if that's too much for those of you who have adopted this religious version of political correctness, but that's the way it is.

I personally have no politically correct views on religion. The PC version is to be a believer and not rock the boat, while I chose to follow my own path and my own mind. I have a great deal of respect for religion and religious people, just not for the persons who only are hoping for divine intervention to win a "final battle" for them because they so desperately wish to be right. If thats all you have to hold on to, then I'm glad I'm an Athiest.

Dino 6 Rings
12-28-2008, 02:08 PM
The way I see it

Jesus loves everyone

the important part, is, who loves him back.

SteelCurtain7
12-28-2008, 02:51 PM
"The question is not, 'Is God on our side', but, 'Are we on His'?"

Abraham Lincoln (paraphrase)

SteelCurtain7
12-28-2008, 02:59 PM
I don't do backhanded swipes. I come out and tell you if its directed at you. It was not. Just a general observation on a great many people in this country who think "god is on our side" and no one elses. If that includes you, then consider it a comment made toward you.



So are all of the other gods of all of the other religions, if you do not listen to the Christian spin on the rest of them. Once again I bring back my "who do you like, Yankees or the Red Sox" comment. Mind you, a great deal of other religions are just as guilty of spi.




I personally have no politically correct views on religion. The PC version is to be a believer and not rock the boat, while I chose to follow my own path and my own mind. I have a great deal of respect for religion and religious people, just not for the persons who only are hoping for divine intervention to win a "final battle" for them because they so desperately wish to be right. If thats all you have to hold on to, then I'm glad I'm an Athiest.

It isn't "all I have to hold on to." Unlike what that atheist "thinker" A. Whitney Brown (I use the term loosely) said some time ago, Christianity isn't waiting for the movie to end to see the credits roll...we can see in the here and now the inevitability and the futility of man's decisions apart from the will of God.

As for your canard about "what other gods promise," they lie. Have you ever read about the children of Egypt and the children of Israel, in the Biblical book of Exodus? God dealt not only with the pagan Egyptians via the plagues He sent upon them, but each plague specifically was a "message" he sent each particular Egyptian deity. He owned them in combat, and since "He changes not" (a la Hebrews 13), He still owns all comers today (both physical and spiritual). The countless testimonies of missionaries throughout the world since the Great Commission easily refute the tripe you are attempting to promote. :rolleyes:

Additionally, unlike the Judeo-Christian God, countless deities have died off during the millennia. Take, for example, the deities of the Norse, the Romans, the Greeks, et. al. The Norse kicked the bucket via the frozen "meltdown" known as Ragnarok. The gods themselves, judged. *ironyalert!* :lol: The Greco-Roman deities took a swan dive into oblivion also. So, in your ignorant comparison of moral equivalence regarding all things called "deity," you do therefore greatly err.

You also (in backhanded fashion) accuse the Christians' God of being guilty of "spin." Yet you have conveniently provided no examples. Is this your way of rationalizing the way you're living, to indict a deity you know exists, but to Whom you do not wish to bow?

Sorry, but with your weak reasoning, I'm glad I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

millwalldavey
12-28-2008, 03:25 PM
As for your canard about "what other gods promise," they lie. Have you ever read about the children of Egypt and the children of Israel, in the Biblical book of Exodus? God dealt not only with the pagan Egyptians via the plagues He sent upon them, but each plague specifically was a "message" he sent each particular Egyptian deity. He owned them in combat, and since "He changes not" (a la Hebrews 13), He still owns all comers today (both physical and spiritual). The countless testimonies of missionaries throughout the world since the Great Commission easily refute the tripe you are attempting to promote. :rolleyes:

I'm glad you get your information on "other" gods from a source proportedly written to back up your beliefs! I'm sure that the Christian bible is an unbiased source on the gods of others.

And you roll your eyes?!?!?! HAH!


Additionally, unlike the Judeo-Christian God, countless deities have died off during the millennia. Take, for example, the deities of the Norse, the Romans, the Greeks, et. al. The Norse kicked the bucket via the frozen "meltdown" known as Ragnarok. The gods themselves, judged. *ironyalert!* :lol: The Greco-Roman deities took a swan dive into oblivion also. So, in your ignorant comparison of moral equivalence regarding all things called "deity," you do therefore greatly err.

Additionally, the Muslim, Bhuddist, countless other indigionous beleif systems havde not died off as well, and many of them were enlightend long before the last 2000 years. Wow. Are you that blind to the world? YOURS IS NOT THE ONLY RELIGION!

As for the Norse, MANY people resisted the swords put to them by Christian soldiers and kept thier gods. Many in Scandinavia still practice Odinism. Some of the crazier ones have grafted it on to white supremacy (which happens now and then with Christianity, oddly enough) and some have even taken to burning the churches built on ancient holy sites. Ragnarock indeed.


You also (in backhanded fashion) accuse the Christians' God of being guilty of "spin." Yet you have conveniently provided no examples. Is this your way of rationalizing the way you're living, to indict a deity you know exists, but to Whom you do not wish to bow?

The Christians spin things to their advantage. IT's true. Go to church on any Sunday and they are spinning and selling the product to you. Their claim of being the one true god falls flat, as there are many other religions in the world, who make the same spin as the Christians do. One is right and the others are wrong? Thats just foolish.

I would like to see your proof or EXAMPLES that a diety, ANY diety exists. I have nothing to rationalize, because besides books and stories, there is nothing to prove it to me.

I could read books and hear stories and beleive there was really a Darth Vader who commands the dark side of the force. There is no difference between the two to me.
My highest power is my mind and my actions towrds others. The love and respect I show to all. It's all i need.


Sorry, but with your weak reasoning, I'm glad I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

I could say the same back to you, but that would be disrespectful. I'm happy you have your faith to hold on to. You need to realize that what is good for you is not good for all. And also, don;t be afraid of betraying your faith to become a bit more enlightened and flexible on others beleifs. If you feel the way you do, your god will still love you.

revefsreleets
12-28-2008, 04:34 PM
Hitler was sure Jesus was a Swastika wearing Nazi lover, too.

This is much more about the guy trying to get a little political sympathy on the eve of our regime change. It MAY even be an olive branch being extended, since he knows things are improving in Iraq and world opinion is probably going to be a lot more favorable towards the US in the near-term.

SteelCurtain7
12-28-2008, 05:26 PM
Like Tal Brooke saliently observed, many contemporary leaders (this Iranian misfit being no exception), countless folks have attempted to transform Jesus into their image, instead of allowing Him to transform them into HIS. :rolleyes:

SteelCurtain7
12-28-2008, 05:35 PM
I'm glad you get your information on "other" gods from a source proportedly written to back up your beliefs! I'm sure that the Christian bible is an unbiased source on the gods of others.

And you roll your eyes?!?!?! HAH!



Additionally, the Muslim, Bhuddist, countless other indigionous beleif systems havde not died off as well, and many of them were enlightend long before the last 2000 years. Wow. Are you that blind to the world? YOURS IS NOT THE ONLY RELIGION!

As for the Norse, MANY people resisted the swords put to them by Christian soldiers and kept thier gods. Many in Scandinavia still practice Odinism. Some of the crazier ones have grafted it on to white supremacy (which happens now and then with Christianity, oddly enough) and some have even taken to burning the churches built on ancient holy sites. Ragnarock indeed.



The Christians spin things to their advantage. IT's true. Go to church on any Sunday and they are spinning and selling the product to you. Their claim of being the one true god falls flat, as there are many other religions in the world, who make the same spin as the Christians do. One is right and the others are wrong? Thats just foolish.

I would like to see your proof or EXAMPLES that a diety, ANY diety exists. I have nothing to rationalize, because besides books and stories, there is nothing to prove it to me.

I could read books and hear stories and beleive there was really a Darth Vader who commands the dark side of the force. There is no difference between the two to me.
My highest power is my mind and my actions towrds others. The love and respect I show to all. It's all i need.



I could say the same back to you, but that would be disrespectful. I'm happy you have your faith to hold on to. You need to realize that what is good for you is not good for all. And also, don;t be afraid of betraying your faith to become a bit more enlightened and flexible on others beleifs. If you feel the way you do, your god will still love you.

You prattle on about Buddhism and whatnot, yet fail to mention that Buddhists are conflicted within their own religion whether a supreme Force even exists. Talk about a "kingdom divided itself not standing"! :rolleyes: The Muslims took snippets from the Torah and Christianity, added a little regional Arabian paganism (like the worship of the Kaaba at Mecca) and VOILA! instant new religion. :rolleyes:

Apparently, in order to sate your conscience, it makes you feel better to lump all of "religion" together, toss it into a blender (a la Bill Mahrrrrrrrrrrrrr) and reject it all outright, then slapping yourself on the back for being such a person of "reason," such a "free thinker." What I've typically observed concerning atheists over the years...you don't fail to disappoint in providing the usual modus operandi of atheism.

I also got a good laugh out of your "all Christian preachers are selling you lies" canard, and I scoff at your attempts to mold me into your image by telling me not to be so dogmatic. Pot, meet kettle (on both counts). Especially considering that I've met the Jesus these guys (whom you ignorantly lump together again via your ad hominem mudslinging, another typical atheistic "debating" tactic :rolleyes: ) talk about BEFORE ever attending church. Looks like your paradigm needs a bit of tweaking there, o sage.

You also make some insane wisecrack regarding Darth Vader *coughstrawmancough*. The Force is definitely not with you, o padawan. :rofl:

43Hitman
12-28-2008, 05:49 PM
You prattle on about Buddhism and whatnot, yet fail to mention that Buddhists are conflicted within their own religion whether a supreme Force even exists. Talk about a "kingdom divided itself not standing"! :rolleyes: The Muslims took snippets from the Torah and Christianity, added a little regional Arabian paganism (like the worship of the Kaaba at Mecca) and VOILA! instant new religion. :rolleyes:

Apparently, in order to sate your conscience, it makes you feel better to lump all of "religion" together, toss it into a blender (a la Bill Mahrrrrrrrrrrrrr) and reject it all outright, then slapping yourself on the back for being such a person of "reason," such a "free thinker." What I've typically observed concerning atheists over the years...you don't fail to disappoint in providing the usual modus operandi of atheism.

I also got a good laugh out of your "all Christian preachers are selling you lies" canard, and I scoff at your attempts to mold me into your image by telling me not to be so dogmatic. Pot, meet kettle (on both counts). Especially considering that I've met the Jesus these guys (whom you ignorantly lump together again via your ad hominem mudslinging, another typical atheistic "debating" tactic :rolleyes: ) talk about BEFORE ever attending church. Looks like your paradigm needs a bit of tweaking there, o sage.

You also make some insane wisecrack regarding Darth Vader *coughstrawmancough*. The Force is definitely not with you, o padawan. :rofl:

Not trying to judge you here brother, but you may be better served if you argue with love and peace rather than attacking him. In a sense you are proving his point by by using "rolling eyes" and a condescending tone. God Bless.

Preacher
12-28-2008, 06:21 PM
"The question is not, 'Is God on our side', but, 'Are we on His'?"

Abraham Lincoln (paraphrase)

Actually, that was first spoken by the angel of the Lord to Joshua in scripture.

Joshua, "Are on our side or our enemies?"

AotL, "I am on the Lords side"

(paraphrase).

SteelCurtain7
12-28-2008, 07:28 PM
Thanks for the correction there, Preacher-man. :cool:

SteelCurtain7
12-28-2008, 07:29 PM
Not trying to judge you here brother, but you may be better served if you argue with love and peace rather than attacking him. In a sense you are proving his point by by using "rolling eyes" and a condescending tone. God Bless.

You make a good point. My apologies for my attitude...not necessarily my words, but the way I conveyed them.

stlrtruck
12-29-2008, 04:03 PM
What I find funny is that most people who do not want to believe in Jesus Christ only want to point out that He is about Love and Kindness and that there is no way He would destroy people or that they wouldn't want anything to do with a God that will destroy those who don't believe in him!

Jesus Christ is about relationship. He wants one with everyone and He freely gives everyone the opportunity to make that choice. Eventually, there will come a time when that free choice is no longer given and just as the bible talks about Jesus' Love for Us, it also talks about the destruction of those who do not believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour

(P.s. Did you know that buddha ate human feces?)

millwalldavey
12-29-2008, 09:19 PM
You make a good point. My apologies for my attitude...not necessarily my words, but the way I conveyed them.

I concur. I stand by my beliefs but was trying very hard to keep it from becoming a pissing match, which I think can become unavoidable in a situation like this.

I do my best to avoid insuting the beleivers on here when it comes to these discussions. I have had many good discussions on here with people like the Preacher-man about this stuf, and while its obvious we do not agree (and likely never will) we manage to come to a mututal understanding and respect for one another.

Just like my sig says, as long as we are black and gold, then we are a brotherhood!

Dino 6 Rings
12-30-2008, 12:23 PM
I'm pretty sure though that Jesus wouldn't be a fan of suicide bombings that include the killing of children...just got this sinking feeling that he wouldn't be fond of those types of things.

I'm also pretty sure that Jesus wouldn't be a fan of most world governments. Including our own. But whatever.

Just be nice people...and be good, and it should all work out for you in the end.

If it doesn't...I'll see you in the inferno.

millwalldavey
12-30-2008, 02:14 PM
I'm pretty sure though that Jesus wouldn't be a fan of suicide bombings that include the killing of children...just got this sinking feeling that he wouldn't be fond of those types of things.

I'm also pretty sure that Jesus wouldn't be a fan of most world governments. Including our own. But whatever.

Just be nice people...and be good, and it should all work out for you in the end.



Agreed.

Preacher
01-02-2009, 08:26 PM
I concur. I stand by my beliefs but was trying very hard to keep it from becoming a pissing match, which I think can become unavoidable in a situation like this.

I do my best to avoid insuting the beleivers on here when it comes to these discussions. I have had many good discussions on here with people like the Preacher-man about this stuf, and while its obvious we do not agree (and likely never will) we manage to come to a mututal understanding and respect for one another.

Just like my sig says, as long as we are black and gold, then we are a brotherhood!


Speak for yourself heathen :kick:

Preacher
01-02-2009, 08:27 PM
I concur. I stand by my beliefs but was trying very hard to keep it from becoming a pissing match, which I think can become unavoidable in a situation like this.

I do my best to avoid insuting the beleivers on here when it comes to these discussions. I have had many good discussions on here with people like the Preacher-man about this stuf, and while its obvious we do not agree (and likely never will) we manage to come to a mututal understanding and respect for one another.

Just like my sig says, as long as we are black and gold, then we are a brotherhood!


OH WAIT... dang it! :doh::doh:




:rofl::rofl::rofl: :wink02:

millwalldavey
01-03-2009, 12:32 AM
I love ya Preach!

MasterOfPuppets
01-03-2009, 08:03 PM
Speak for yourself heathen :kick::toofunny:

Preacher
01-03-2009, 08:14 PM
I love ya Preach!

:wink02:

It was just too good to pass up!

:chuckle: